Do you want to help stop America?

[Das]

One let me first say this is not a joke, all I can say is that this needs to be spread as much as possible in any means such as this forum and other places across the world, to get the world community involved in this, for those that care about their lives, and future, because what happens in the world effects us all, and don't think for one second your life has not been affected by the war in Iraq.

One thing concerned people around the world can do is write Nato, if you care to I have such a letter you can use, and edit to send them:

PLEASE NO FLAMES OR PEOPLE ACTING IGNORANT, this is a serious matter, and there is proof to back up everything that is happening in Iraq and the crimes the USA has commited. Please lets be serious and sensitive to this important matter, Thank you.

Letter to Nato: mail to --> [email protected]


I'm a citizen of the USA, and one very concerned American, that knows that our president, and our country need to be stopped against the crimes against Iraq, and humanity.

I'm not sure what Nato cares about truth and justice in the world, but if nato does, then where will Nato stand, and fight to ensure world peace and freedom?

I know these are not easy subjects, but the USA, is commiting acts of war crimes, breaking the Geneva Convention, and the American people are being lied to and not doing anything about it, then who in the world community is going to step in against America and bring charge against the matter?

World peace, a global community of commerce, they have an effect on all of us. No one in any country can sit back and say this does not have an effect on us, because the truth is, the good and bad that happens in countries around the world have an impact on all countries, and their way of life.

As an America citizen, I'm sending out such a letter to leaders around the world asking that they stand for justice against our nation if our American people will not.

We are commiting acts of war crimes and atrocities against Iraq, now with the dropping of Napalm on these people and our country saying it's the "Mark 77 Firebomb" and not Naplam, when it's exactly naplam just with slightly different ingredients.

Dropping naplam on a nation of people, where is the diginity, and justice, and truth in this for freedoms sake?

I'm not sure the American people are stepping in to fight, but if not, I certainly hope, and pray another nation, nations, or Nato will.

I don't think that possibly it's wise for one country to take this on alone, but I hope that Nato will take this to the Nations, and get the backing of several countries in the world community to have them ALL come after America and stop the atrocities before they get any worse.

Thank you very much for your time, and help in this matter, and Happy Holidays to you and your family.

[InhaleItALL]

PLEASE NO FLAMES OR PEOPLE ACTING IGNORANT, this is a serious matter, and there is proof to back up everything that is happening in Iraq and the crimes the USA has commited. Please lets be serious and sensitive to this important matter, Thank you.
.

So where is your proof. You want people on your side, gives us the proof. Links, documents, photos, soldiers, etc.. etc... I have an open mind, convince me.

[Das]

I said there is proof to back up everything that is happening in Iraq and the crimes the USA has commited.

I didn't say I was the one showing anything, if your a Yank then you should know these things already.

Are you not aware we have broken the Geneva Convention? Look and read about it, and you'll know, are you also not aware we are dropping Napalm on Iraq called Mark 77 Firebombs?

All I can say is if your opened minded please go and dig a little and you'll see the truth out there, it's not hard to find.

[Das]

Are you not aware we have broken the Geneva Convention? Look and read about it, and you'll know, are you also not aware we are dropping Napalm on Iraq called Mark 77 Firebombs?

But look at this:
http://www.islamonline.net/English/News/2003-08/10/article10.shtml

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/middle_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5875

The Napalm incident is being reported from nations all over the world if your surf the web, and that is one very big breaking of the rules of War.

Prime Minister Blair is taking heat on this as well because of the Uk's backing of the USA in Iraq.

The information is all over the world if you just go look. :)

[poorman3]

where you from das? shit, we americans probily had to save your countries ass at one time or another.

[Das]

where you from das? shit, we americans probily had to save your countries ass at one time or another.

I'm a Yank, but YES your right our ASS does need saving, LOL :)

[poorman3]

so your a yank, go to iraq and preach to them people thats fighting for your freedom!

[The C]

Hey. I just want to know if this Nato stuff is true.

Breaking the Geneva Convention, <-- thats common knowladge. How is it common? I heard it on the radio.


Sounds liek your trying to sell this to people who may have heard a bit of the sotry and then the rest you may be seeding is is lies. Wheres the proof this is a nato link.

The best lies are often half lies

I wanna know, can i help out? But i want you to back up more then just the stuff in the headlines. I want to know if thats a nato link.

The C

[NowhereMan]

as saddam was gassing his own people,?
is what i would ask you mr anti american.

war is not a write it out in rules and follow type of thing
people KILL people in them,
i dont like all the us goverment does in my name but i tell you what,
i dont want them over there,but war crimes,.?listen you take kids with guns and shoot at them,what the hell u expect,
shit they just sent a dude to prison for shooting a injured "insurgent"who probly just blew his buddys head off or some shit,so let me tell ya something
untill they start raping and putting kids in ovens,aint no war crimes going on,only a war, i think you blame the usa for siucide bombers too? dont ya?
as it is,they trying to clean it up feed them,help biuld a nation back up for them,got rid of a tyrant,it takes time,
yes i want them out of iraq
but your stop america BULLshit pisses me off a lil bit,
i dont want mr bush in office but i wont lie about what he has or has not did.
you and them rumor grinders must have a busy life.,
peace

ps
soundbite is words to live by

[poorman3]

thanks for the back up nowhereman, this das fucker does`nt won`t to tell the whole story. he just wants to bitch about the usa!

[GHoSToKeR]

how can you, poorman and Z, condone the use of napalm!?!?!?! its sick

[meek mike]

the good and bad that happens in countries around the world have an impact on all countries, and their way of life.

You said it. Thats just one of the many reason we went to Iraq in the first place. Remember Saddam.

Mass Graves/ June 24 2003
http://www.shianews.com/hi/articles/politics/0000374.php

Mass Graves/ May 14 2003
http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/05/iraq051303.htm

Mass Graves/ Oct. 13 2004
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/

Mass Graves/ Oct. 13 2004
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3738368.stm

http://www.iraqcoalition.org/pressreleases/20040224_mass_graves.html

Just a little info if you didn't click on the web sites:

Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[GHoSToKeR]

Since the Saddam Hussein regime was overthrown in May, 270 mass graves have been reported.


and that makes it okay to use napalm? guess again

[tokeyoursmoke]

I AM SORRY TO OFFEND BUT FUCK THIS WAR STOP PUTTING PEOPLES SONS AND DAUGHTERS IN A NEW VIETNAM .HAVE YOU SEEN CHENEY EVER STUMBLE IN SPEECH.WELL HE DID WHEN HIS OWN TROPPS SAID WHY DO WE HAVE TO SEARCH GARBAGE FOR COMPROMISED ARMORG.I SUPPORT OUR TROOPS JUS NO THIS GODDAMN WAR

[BuD MaN]

Fuck all you Americans, you can all go to hell just for being American. What makes you fools think you's are always right, You's dont know shit. lets all get over ourselves shall we...who have no proof in what their saying except their own fucked up mind that naturally thinks its right. No ones right and no ones wrong...your all just people living in a country surrounded by mutated opinions...

[Das]

Look I'm not here to stir up anything, but I guess I was wrong for trying to bring this here, the truth is out there, go read the Geneva Convention, go read the Constitution, and then you will see what America in the past has done wrong with matters over this.

I'm really surprised people are saying where is the proof to all this. The proof is look at the UK, write a letter to Mr. Blair, look at Canada, they wanted to try Bush for war crimes, but because of the relationship being so close to the USA, they are afraid, then go look at Belgium, they also wanted to bring war crime charges against Bush, HELLO people this is not B.S. where are you all living in a cave somewhere?

Just go look and do the research on your own, then you'll BELIEVE what you have found rather then me showing you something.

And BigBud that was really uncalled for I'm a Yank and I don't have anything against anyone in the world, or a attitude, I love all people around the world, and I even think Australia is great country with wonderful people.

People are people no matter where you go in the world.

Now if anyone CARES about any of this and not some childish flaming going on here, that email address I left is for Nato, and here is their website:

http://www.nato.int/
[email protected]

You might think this is all B.S. and it has no effect on you in your country, but in the world, global economies, and commerce everyone is deeply effected.

[Sedater18]

Fuck all you Americans, you can all go to hell just for being American. What makes you fools think you's are always right, You's dont know shit.
What makes you think that all Americans think that they are always right? By grouping all Americans into one little package your doing the one of the bad things that you seem to believe all Americans do, aren't you? Chill out dude god damn.

[Das]

Yes please let's not be stereotyping people into classes, as we are all the same.

[GHoSToKeR]

im more the same than you :)

[Das]

I meant that to say, let's not be stereotyping people like we are all the same.

[GHoSToKeR]

I meant that to say, let's not be stereotyping people like we are all the same.
i know

i was joking

[poorman3]

damn budman, you boys from downunder got your panties in a bind? i sure don`t think i`m always right. you say for us americans to all go to hell? kiss my american ass.
i don`t like that napalm has been used but, in a war things do get shitty! i`ll stand by my country during the good and the bad. i support all them soldiers fighting and always will. do you support you homeland?

[NowhereMan]

how can you, poorman and Z, condone the use of napalm!?!?!?! its sick

sick,? did u see the nick burge tape,.?
make me think like bush,you on usa's side
or your on their side
aint no middle ground in a holy war.
we ,"infedels" all must die
so we infedels" are fightng back ,and we have the power to romp any nations ass,,,do u see the usa invading mexico,even though they are invading us dialy,]
so as far as use of naplam,.

i reckon if they can cut off heads,and send you the tapes
we can burn down the towns using jellygas
shit man what you mean condone,,does that mean u think war is fought with rules,,,,hahaha
shit man u ever been in the service,
the troops do what they are told,and CONGRESS and the prez tells them where when how and what to do,the poor ass farm boys dont know WHY>


we aint there(middle east) to be no agressive force
we (US TROOPS not me personally) are there to rid the world of a danger to it
i think if takes kicking in every door they should.and kill any muthafucker who so much as makes a peep,thye hide the fuckers they die too,
we paying for all they have now,and they get to vote and choose what asshole runs the country,or will soon,
you want saddam back there?running the show killing his own who disagree with him,
every one on here be dead by now if he had his way
so i ask you

how do you condone leaving that place to fester into the one place that gets the world at war,a nuke war will be next
should do one of two things in iraq
leave,let them rebuild on their own they deserve nothing but more from us we took out the ruling bad ass,let them do what they need to but and make it plain,you be a good friendly nation or we will fry every us hating one of ya,

or level it to flat lands and let them who make it out start over with whatever left
at least the usa tries to help.no other country out there does shit by yell HELP USA when it comes to them needing things
but who would help us,only those afriad of losing us tax money we send them



how do you condone the NOT using any means to stop them killing bastards like saddam's henchmen still out there killing their own kind
i guess you think more troops should die by crazy ass siuciders

ghost you must be very young minded to not see the big picture bro
if iraq aint settled ,nothing will have mattered
and killing the terrorist is the only way to bring a end to this shit
period.
peace

[NowhereMan]

Fuck all you Americans, you can all go to hell just for being American. What makes you fools think you's are always right, You's dont know shit. lets all get over ourselves shall we...who have no proof in what their saying except their own fucked up mind that naturally thinks its right. No ones right and no ones wrong...your all just people living in a country surrounded by mutated opinions...


you wouldnt say that to my face
and have a face left pal.,
mutate into a human with a mind why dont ya
i dont claim usa is some GREAT society of perfection,,,hell no
but americans do not go out to kill its fellow man for reasons you think
we will kill you if your a threat,
america aint paradise ,it's a mess of cultures,who must make the best of all it has and somehow you expect it to be PERFECT
bombs are made to kill
america did not invent war
we just got good at it,in the need to do so
so fuck you right back and ill hush becuase i will spill forth shit dont need listed here.
peace to all but you

[BuD MaN]

you wouldnt say that to my face
and have a face left pal.,
mutate into a human with a mind why dont ya
i dont claim usa is some GREAT society of perfection,,,hell no
but americans do not go out to kill its fellow man for reasons you think
we will kill you if your a threat,
america aint paradise ,it's a mess of cultures,who must make the best of all it has and somehow you expect it to be PERFECT
bombs are made to kill
america did not invent war
we just got good at it,in the need to do so
so fuck you right back and ill hush becuase i will spill forth shit dont need listed here.
peace to all but you

Im 15 and I'll give you a run for ya money. And yes I would say that to ya face and yes I hate this country as well for it's need to become the 53rd state of America.

[GHoSToKeR]

Z, me and you obviously have totally different views on war and stuff.. no hard feelings, man :)

[Herbaholic00]

NowhereMan: you wouldnt say that to my face
and have a face left pal.,


BuD MaN: Im 15 and I'll give you a run for ya money. And yes I would say that to ya face........




Sorry but it sounds so funny on a msg board ..........



Peace

[NowhereMan]

Z, me and you obviously have totally different views on war and stuff.. no hard feelings, man :)
of course man,none at all
i just love it when they get riled a lil and spill out the thoughts
dont you

no dude i dont like This war shit.ive had kin over there getting shot at

but i know america is under attack and that means THEY WANT ME DEAD
all i want to do is live peacefull and be happy,and my kids to be safer.
but hard to do with death squads forming agianst you cuase some rich assholes think its cool to NATION BIULD
i think america needs to FIX ITSELF UP before Fixing other places.
but i still love the usa,at least i love what it
COULD ONE DAY BE
i just want peace,and drugs
period


oh and to mr im 15 and would say that to my face
your fucking jailbiat do you realize your protected by that
of course you do,
see me when you can buy a beer
im not shy about it
live in lincoln county west virginia,and fuck you cops if you look here
"go arrest a real criminal,"

ask anyone around for "Rusty "
they will piont you to your demise you so desire
i dont run,
and i do shoot back,or shoot first if thought is needed
so remember this shit,
z dont run
he dont fight for fun
and he is good with a gun
come on over if you want some

haha

now yaw dont take that serious unless your so uptight you must

[pot me up]

The usa arent the only ones breaking the Geneva Convention and who fucking cares its fucking war remember 9/11 remember those men geting there heads choped we should of just of droped the bomb on them yes people that had nothing to do with it would of been killed but look at 9/11 look at whats going on now we should just wipe out the whole place and you may be saying what up my ass well here it is my uncal is MIA sence early this yearand iam preparing on leaving in jan I have a lot more to say but fuck it iam going to smoke a joint

[jimmy5150guitars]

bud man i usually dont curse anyone unless its face to face but FUCK YOU since you are only 15 i guess i would just spank your ass and beat the fuck out of your daddy if you said that to me. since you hate america so much why dont you move yourself to the middle east and suck some camel dick!


Once a Marine Always a Marine


fuck you pussie




PS: sorry lulu but a couple of these assholes really pissed me off

[The C]

I think sometimes we like to reafirm our beliefs through others. I think it's benificial to hear from others peoples perspectives. I'm learning about the world through someone esles experiences.


I also think it's possible we have heated emotions because we just want whats best for eachother? I get heated because I(we) care about the people on here, generaly. I don't want a fellow human being hurt. But i don't want to be hurt myself.
I care about my values and I want to make it known how I feel. I want others to feel the same way i do. That way we can accomplish something with a certain goal.


Together we stand... Devided we fall...

[Imotep]

Fuck all you Americans, you can all go to hell just for being American. What makes you fools think you's are always right, You's dont know shit. lets all get over ourselves shall we...who have no proof in what their saying except their own fucked up mind that naturally thinks its right. No ones right and no ones wrong...your all just people living in a country surrounded by mutated opinions...

right on budman.
im doing my bit by bashing every american i meet.
i smashed my rolling stones cds too but then remembered theyre poms.

[NowhereMan]

bud man i usually dont curse anyone unless its face to face but FUCK YOU since you are only 15 i guess i would just spank your ass and beat the fuck out of your daddy if you said that to me. since you hate america so much why dont you move yourself to the middle east and suck some camel dick!


Once a Marine Always a Marine


fuck you pussie




PS: sorry lulu but a couple of these assholes really pissed me off






amen

[jimmy5150guitars]

nowhereman you rock and so do all of you other patriots i bet most of these pussies havent even been war. nothing fun about it. Fuck you imotep pussy why dont you walk into a crowd of marines and bash them? i bet you wouldnt have the balls thats the differance between you and me i would walk into a crowd of people like you and call all of you pussies because i am an american marine and will kick ass, die or kill for america right or wrong

[Euphoric]

would you do anything your commander told you to do? think for yourself. question authority!

[GHoSToKeR]

..the greatest obstacle to international order is that monstrously exaggerated spirit of nationalism which also goes by the fair-sounding but misused name of patriotism. (Albert Einstein, 1931)

In two weeks the sheeplike masses of any country can be worked up by the newspapers into such a state of excited fury that men are prepared to put on uniforms and kill and be killed, for the sake of the sordid ends of a few interested parties. Military service seems to me the most disgraceful symptom of that deficiency in personal dignity from which civilized mankind is suffering today. (Albert Einstein, 1934)

[Delta9]

I love my country.
And I battle constantly
And the old man always gets his way.
He said "You better be Sorry"
And the son of a bitch always wins.

[Delta9]

I think he's the father of this bastard child?

[Delta9]

Because Islam cannot stop us.
Because we are Great.
And we will never surrender.
No matter what the consequenses.

[Delta9]

And with strength and Power God judges swiftly like the blade.
Your sins between you and the so called Lord.

[Delta9]

Yes but Diden't Einsten Say "Zionism"
Was He Jewish?
Was He?
I think he wanted Isreal.

What runs America?
Oils, Petroleum, Ether.
Moslem can be Muslums and Satanist can live in harmony with Iranians because we are all humans.
Nuclear weapons Are the Greatest threat do Man Kind And We Must not let Crazy Zealouts Get the'yer hands on them.
It is for Our Good.
We Must continue our journey into the universe and love our Human Brothers whether Muslum or Christian or Jew. so that we may colonize other Planets like our Forfathers colonized America.

[psychocat]

http://www.infoplease.com/ce6/history/A0803344.html

Sounds familiar.

Do some research into Pinochets rise to power , the Bush family are not so squeeky clean either , http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html , how about Turkmenistan?? http://www.rferl.org/releases/2004/12/290-191204.asp


And as a final note,

http://www.ipsnews.net/interna.asp?idnews=26387

[psychocat]

nowhereman you rock and so do all of you other patriots i bet most of these pussies havent even been war. nothing fun about it. Fuck you imotep pussy why dont you walk into a crowd of marines and bash them? i bet you wouldnt have the balls thats the differance between you and me i would walk into a crowd of people like you and call all of you pussies because i am an american marine and will kick ass, die or kill for america right or wrong

Just the sort of mentality I expect from someone who can't think for themselves , as for being scared of a US marine, it's a case of only if he's supposed to be on my side (friendly fire my arse).

America has a history of sticking it's nose in where it isn't wanted and getting a bloody nose in the process (Vietnam) , bodybags instead of sons coming home. This "war" has nothing to do with democracy or freedom and everything to do with mass globilization by the US.

[Delta9]

Oh fuckin' A. Electricuting "Subversive" till the'yer Sterile. Pinoche was A Serious Dictator. The People He killed with such great Painful methods. And for what? I don't want to know. He will simmer in hell for what he did. But Geoge Bush Is not Pinoche.

[psychocat]

Oh fuckin' A. Electricuting "Subversive" till the'yer Sterile. Pinoche was A Serious Dictator. The People He killed with such great Painful methods. And for what? I don't want to know. He will simmer in hell for what he did. But Geoge Bush Is not Pinoche.

America put Pinochet into power because even though the man he usurped was elected, he was also a communist so the US spent millions helping Pinochet gain power.
Knowledge is about seeking out the truth.

[Delta9]

I don't Know Thats Nut's.
But There is oil under our Oceans.
And we must keep these oceans clean so that we may harvest Salmon and Cod and Shark.
And we Must Continue into the Universe so that we Will find more Oils And riches and Spice and that Iranians And Americans May share the Wealth.

And Yes I am Completely Insane.

[Delta9]

Look We Just Want Osama.
He Must Pay the Price for his crimes.
He Knows What he Did.
We Know He's In Iran.
We Know Afganistan Tries to Kill America with Heroine.
We Know Mexico Likes America.
We Know Snorting Cocaine Feels Good.

[Delta9]

Sad but True

[Delta9]

Fui On You

[NowhereMan]

..the greatest obstacle to international order is that monstrously exaggerated spirit of nationalism which also goes by the fair-sounding but misused name of patriotism. (Albert Einstein, 1931)

In two weeks the sheeplike masses of any country can be worked up by the newspapers into such a state of excited fury that men are prepared to put on uniforms and kill and be killed, for the sake of the sordid ends of a few interested parties. Military service seems to me the most disgraceful symptom of that deficiency in personal dignity from which civilized mankind is suffering today. (Albert Einstein, 1934)


what you expect from a cokehead ghost
rambling shit
mr brains used coke ya know

[NowhereMan]

Just the sort of mentality I expect from someone who can't think for themselves , as for being scared of a US marine, it's a case of only if he's supposed to be on my side (friendly fire my arse).

America has a history of sticking it's nose in where it isn't wanted and getting a bloody nose in the process (Vietnam) , bodybags instead of sons coming home. This "war" has nothing to do with democracy or freedom and everything to do with mass globilization by the US.


funny how your mention one war
what about WWI and WWII


wasnt for the usa
yaw all be spekezy deutch about now
saying hiel some ass hole
so dont gimm america sticks its nose in shit
we try to help dont always work out
and for every vet of nam
i say KISS MY FUCKING ASS
they bled and died and worse,trying to FREE a country far away
i dont agree with your thinking at all
and if not for pansy asses like you and THOSE YOU vote for probly
they would have had the go ahead to win that one
the poloticians who 's sons wasnt dying
tied them military's hands in nam
READ THE HISTORY in it entire form
not just snip out casualty list jesh
i guess your another that wants Saddam type fuckers in power

killing anyone who says he is bad,.
fuck that
shoot him and them like him in the head and save a BILLION lives in the long run


if america wanted to own the world,,,,,,,we would
so shove that thought,
not many countries has our type of power and if they did
they would be taking over shit
imagine North Korea with the means to take over,
or china
shit
man get real

[psychocat]

You really need to look up the meaning of the word "help" the only people the US goverment helps are themselves , as for the world wars
Research the fucked up attempt to stage a landing (Omaha beach) in wwII
The war started in 39 not when the yanks could be bothered to drag their arses off the couch.
Then not content with that they get hollywood assholes stealing the thunder of other countries heroes (U571)

[GHoSToKeR]

what you expect from a cokehead ghost
rambling shit
mr brains used coke ya know
he may have used coke, but he was one of the cleverest people in the world, if not THE..

could YOU come up with the theory of general relativity? i doubt it, and youre not even on coke..

[Delta9]

I still have unbreakable faith and belief in petroleum.
And support or president.
And I will continue to put forth my lifes energy toward the expansion of industry.
With fists of fury and mechanical beasts of chrome and steel.
We must strike with great force and vengence
like the talons of the eagle when grips its prey.
Like the fangs of the serpent.
By the blood of the worker.

[Delta9]

Thats the thing with Christianity. It's a conquest. Which was seen with the Spanish Conquestadors whom were in search of Gold. The Spanish got their Gold from the Natives of south America by force. And we see nowadays that the Spanish are still stealing Gold In the U.S. Subways of New Your. The slaughter of South American Tribes is in fact still Going On in South America, and I woulden't doubt that the U.S. is Involved somehow.

See thats why I am against Christianity. Who are Christians to Take over Native Americans, Plant a Cross into the Land and say "this is the land that our lord has given us." And then make the practices of Native American Ceremonies illegal By enforcing U.S. drug laws. Thats The docrine for ya'.

[NowhereMan]

he may have used coke, but he was one of the cleverest people in the world, if not THE..

could YOU come up with the theory of general relativity? i doubt it, and youre not even on coke..


not any more :D


its bad for you ,ya know


dont know about that relativity shit buddy ol' pal
but i did think of this yo mama joke


yo mama so funky when she puts here panties in the clothes dryer
yo papa thinks she got fish sticks cooking in the oven






h0ws that for first effort



ps i know the man was smart but in some ways he wasa dumass too
peace

[NowhereMan]

You really need to look up the meaning of the word "help" the only people the US goverment helps are themselves , as for the world wars
Research the fucked up attempt to stage a landing (Omaha beach) in wwII
The war started in 39 not when the yanks could be bothered to drag their arses off the couch.
Then not content with that they get hollywood assholes stealing the thunder of other countries heroes (U571)



i know the us goverment is a fucked up entity
but the us people are paying for it more than anyone
that said
i stand behind the men in uniform fighting for our colors
RED WHITE AND BLUE

war sucks




i have in fact read alot about it,
military history is a hobby of mine.

here maybe you should
OMAHA BEACHHEAD
(6 June-13 June 1944
D DAY: THE LANDINGS
THE SELECTION OF D DAY was governed by several factors, complicated by the need of satisfying Allied requirements in five different landing areas, each with its own problems. It was desirable that D Day fall during a period when the days were long, for maximum use of Allied air power; when the moon was near the full, for better maneuver of ships and for easier night landings of airborne troops; and when tides were strong, so that beach obstacles would be fully exposed at low water and the landing craft could be floated far up the beach for convenient unloading at high water. Further, D Day must be selected with reference to certain requirements for H Hour, the moment when the first assault units touched down on the beaches. These were: that there be an hour of daylight before H Hour so that the preliminary bombardment would be as accurate as possible, and landing craft could be more easily organized into formation for the assault; that the tide should be near half-flood, so that obstacles would still be exposed, but rock ledges near the shore in the British one would not be dangerous; and that the tide be rising at H Hour, insuring two high tides during daylight to facilitate maximum unloading of supplies. Certain groups of days came nearest to satisfying all these requirements: 21-22-23 May, 5-6-7 June, and 19-20-21 June were closest to the target date of 1 June. On 8 May, D Day was fixed at 5 June.

V Corps units had been alerted on 23 March to be ready for movement to marshaling areas on short notice. Actually, movement began 7 May and was completed by 11 May for elements of the assault and follow-up forces ("O" and "B"). The pre-embarkment handling of 65,000 men and 7,600 vehicles was accomplished by the XVIII and XIX Districts of the Southern Base Section, Services of Supply. Once in the marshaling areas, troops were "sealed" in their camps, given final items of equipment, and thoroughly briefed on all phases of their assignments. During the last few days of May, they were moved from the marshaling points to the ports and "hards" [9] for embarkation, their places being immediately taken by units designated to follow across the Channel in build-up schedules. By 3 June all troops of Force "O" had been loaded, and some of them had been aboard several days. Portland, Weymouth, and Poole were the embarkation areas. On the night of 27 May, a small enemy air attack on the Weymouth area caused some losses of a few smaller craft by mines. Aside from this raid, the loadings suffered no interference from enemy action, and German air reconnaissance up to D Day was on a routine scale.

The story of the Navy's share in operation NEPTUNE must be told elsewhere. Western Task Force, commanded by Rear Adm. Alan G. Kirk, was responsible for the embarkation and landing of First U. S. Army

[9] Beach areas given a hard surface by wire mats, concrete blocks, or other treatment so as to permit direct loading of vehicles from sand to ships.

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forces. Rear Adm. J. L. Hall, Jr., commanded Force "O," which would carry the assault against Omaha Beach. The magnitude and complexity of the movement may be suggested by figures. To lift and land this initial assault force of 34,000 men and 3,300 vehicles required 7 transports, 8 LSI's, 24 LST's, 33 LCI (L)'s, 36 LCM (3)'s, 147 LCT's, and 33 other craft, while the escort, gunfire support, and bombardment missions employed 2 battleships, 3 cruisers, 12 destroyers, and 105 other ships. Force "O" also included 33 mine-sweepers and 585 vessels used in service work.

The 16th RCT, including 3,502 men and 295 vehicles attached only for movement to the beach, numbered 9,828 personnel, 919 vehicles, and 48 tanks. To handle this one unit required 2 transports, 6 LST's, 53 LCT's (of various types), and 5 LCI (L)'s; small craft, to be launched from the larger ships in the transport area, included 81 LCVP's, 18 LCA's (British), 13 other landing craft, and about 64 dukws.

The assault of this armada was dependent on the weather, which could so easily influence both naval and air operations. At the last minute, with all assault forces loaded and waiting for the signal to start, Operation NEPTUNE was threatened with checkmate. On 3 June, his meteorological staff gave General Eisenhower an unfavorable forecast for D Day, predicting overcast skies and strong winds. At 0415 on 4 June he decided to postpone D Day 24 hours. One of the divisions of the assault convoy had already started out to sea, according to schedule, and had to be recalled.

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Weather forecasts on 4 June held out hopes for a slight but temporary improvement. Beginning on 5 June and lasting about 24 hours, there would be an interval of better sky conditions, with broken clouds at a ceiling not lower than 3,000 feet. Seas were expected to moderate. Following this break, the prospects were for renewed cloud and stronger winds. Postponement to 7 June would therefore risk a deterioration of weather conditions, as well as fueling difficulties for some of the ships in convoys already at sea; further postponement would mean a delay until 19 June before tide and moon conditions were again suitable. General Eisenhower decided at 0415 on 5 June to accept the risks involved in making the assault under the conditions of sea and sky expected for the next day. H Hour for Omaha Beach was set at 0630. [10] Low tide would occur at 0525 and the first high water 1100. Sunrise was at 0558 and sunset 2207.

The main convoy of Force "O" cleared Portland Harbor on the afternoon of 5 June; movement across 100 miles of channel to the assault area was uneventful. The operation met no interference from action by enemy naval or air forces. Continuous air cover was provided for the shipping lane and for the Allied assault beaches. Spitfires protected the convoys at low altitudes; patrols of four squadrons of P-47's from the Ninth and Eighth Air Forces were over the shipping lane and its flanks at all times.

[10] The Allied assault forces used four different H Hours, to meet the differing conditions of tide and bottom on the main assault beaches. The hour was 0630 at Omaha and Utah, while the British landings carne between 0700 and 0730.

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The assault beach ones were to receive continuous cover by fighters, the Ninth Air Force detailing five groups for high cover, with the task of maintaining three squadrons over the Allied beaches at all times during daylight. Low cover was a British commitment. One of the most important contributions to the whole operation was performed by the sweepers of Western Task Force, which made possible the passage of the convoys to the assault beaches without loss from mines. The Ancon, headquarters ship for Admiral Hall and General Gerow, anchored at 0251 on D Day in the transport area, 23,000 yards off Omaha Beach.

In spite of some improvement over the previous period, weather conditions were far from ideal for the assault operations. Visibility was 10 miles, but there was a partial overcast to hamper bombing. The wind was still strong, coming from the northwest and therefore producing its full effects on the coastal waters off the Omaha sector. A wind force of 10 to 18 knots caused waves averaging 3 to 4 feet high in the transport area, with occasional waves up to 6 feet. On the beach, breakers were 3 to 4 feet. This condition of the sea persisted well into D+1 before the wind moderated. The effect on the landing plans was to be felt throughout D Day.

Approach to the Beach
The movement from transport area to shore proceeded according to a complex schedule, involving hundreds of craft and requiring the nicest timing to get the assault elements to the shore in their appointed order. One of the first steps was the loading of the assault infantry units from their transports into the small LCVP's and LCA's, which were launched from the larger mother ships. The process began three to four hours before Hour and was rendered difficult by the choppy seas, which caused some minor delays. Carrying the early waves of 116th assault troops, the transport Thomas Jefferson was able to unload all its craft in 66 minutes, aided by the fact that 25 of the 33 craft could be "railloaded" and then swung overside. The Thomas Jefferson craft left the rendezvous area at 0430, 25 minutes ahead of schedule, since control officers feared the conditions of sea would delay the approach run.

More serious effects of the rough seas were felt as the smaller craft moved in through the rendezvous area to the line of departure. The LCVP's and LCA's were drenched with spray from the start, and most of them began to ship enough water to demand full use of the pumps. In a good many craft the pumps would not carry the load, and the assault troops had to bail with their helmets. Craft having pump troubles were likely to be slowed down, and any attempt to raise the speed and catch up resulted in shipping more water than before. Only a small minority of the craft were in serious difficulties. Out of 180 to 200 craft used for the two assault RCT's, 10 carrying infantry are definitely known to have swamped, some almost at the start and others near the beach. Nearly all personnel from the swamped craft were rescued by naval craft or passing ships, often after hours in the water.

In most of the craft the soldiers were drenched from the outset by the cold spray, and seasickness overcame a great majority. Boat teams in the same formations, carrying men who had eaten the same breakfast and had the same training, were very unevenly affected, the "casualty" rates ranging all the way from zero to 100 percent. Men who had been chilled by their wetting, cramped by immobility in the small and fully loaded craft, and weakened by seasickness were not in the best condition for strenuous action on

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landing. Similar handicaps, however, had been met and overcome at training exercises, and many men, even among the seasick, were keyed up by the occasion. One officer remembered his troops chatting about "What a shambles the beach would be from the bombs and ships' guns," although his own impression was: "It looked like another big tactical scheme off Slapton Sands, and I couldn't get the feeling out of my head that it was going to be another miserable two-day job with a hot shower at the end."

As the landing craft carrying the 16th RCT units came within a few miles of shore they passed men struggling in life preservers and on rafts. These were personnel from foundered DD tanks, the first casualties of the rough seas. According to plan, Companies B and C of the 741st Tank Battalion were launched at H-50 minutes, 6,000 yards off shore, to lead in the first assault wave on the eastern beach sectors. In very short order the DD's bean to suffer crippling damage in broken struts, torn canvas, and engine trouble from water flooding the engine compartment. Of the 32 tanks, 2 swam in and 3 others were beached from an LCT which could not launch its DD's because of a damaged ramp. In the 116th RCT zone, the officers in charge of the tank-loaded LCT's had decided not to risk the conditions of sea, and the 32 DD's of the 743d Tank Battalion were carried in to the beach.

In terms of ultimate effects, all these difficulties were minor by comparison with those of navigation. The plan called for landing each assault unit in a relatively small, defined area where it had a specific task to perform in reducing enemy defenses, opening gaps in obstacles, or clearing a section of the flat. Quick success on the beach was dependent on carrying out a large number of such small tasks, which were often correlated to lead to some major result such as the opening of an exit.

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Despite all the intensive study put on conditions of current and wind for this part of the coast, all the visual aids for spotting beachmarks by panoramic photographs, and all the experience with similar difficulties in training exercises, a great many landing craft of the first waves came in away from their target sectors. Smoke and dust along the beach from naval fire and a slight early morning mist made it hard to recognize landmarks as the shore was neared. One of the control vessels for Dog Beach drifted off its station, which may explain some of the later troubles of approach in that sector. The fact that practically all the mislanded craft were east of their targets points to he tidal current as a contributing factor. It was known that with a rising tide (low tide on 6 June was at 0525), a strong current ran laterally eastward along Omaha Beach, reaching maximum velocity of nearly 2.7 knots at 5 miles off shore; strong winds might increase its average velocity. That the current was very strong on D Day is indicated by the report of the destroyer Satterlee, which found it necessary to steer 20 to 30 degrees "up current" in order to maintain position in the firing lane.

Whatever the cause, a majority of landing craft during the first hour came in east of their appointed beach sector, and this majority included craft bearing engineers as well as infantry (Maps Nos. V, VI). Sometimes the margin of error was as much as a thousand yards or more; one company (E) of the 116th, destined for Easy Green, came in, boat sections scattered, on the 16th beaches as far east as Fox Green. More often, the error was in the order of a few hundred yards, but this could be enough to undo the

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assignments for taking out a key strong-point or opening an exit. It might also be enough to completely "lose" units which landed below an unfamiliar stretch of bluff, were consequently unable to identify the terrain, and so could not make a proper estimate of the enemy defenses with which they must deal. The resulting difficulties of the boat teams were heightened by the frequent separation of sections of the same company. Whether because of delays suffered by individual craft, straggling on the way in, or disagreement between coxswains in recognition of landmarks, some unit formations of landing craft were broken up enough to result in widely scattered landings. Under conditions prevailing at the beach, separation of craft by as little as 200 yards could easily bring about the complete isolation of a section. This would deny elements of a mislanded company the advantages of combining in order to improvise their assault if they came to shore in strange territory. Sections which suffered heavy casualties in leaders might be particularly affected by separation.

The landing craft came in under the comforting thunder of the tremendous fire support from naval guns, as well as the tank and artillery pieces firing from LCT's. [11] Up to within a few hundred yards of the water's edge, there was every reason to hope that the enemy shore defenses might have been neutralized. Then, many of the leading craft began to come under fire from automatic weapons and artillery, which increased in volume as they approached touchdown. It was evident at H Hour that the enemy fortifications had not been knocked out.

Just how much had been accomplished by the preliminary bombardment can only be determined later from enemy sources. Many gun positions and strongpoints certainly survived the early fire. The well-concealed emplacements were hard enough to locate later in the day, with better visibility and chances for observation. The tanks and artillery operating from LCT's in rough water were handicapped by conditions making accurate fire difficult. The rockets, according to most reports from the assault troops, made a heartening display but ailed to hit defensive positions-an opinion which cannot be accepted as final and which runs counter to naval reports. The total bombardment had certainly had effect, and it may have been more considerable than the infantry could realize. Enemy guns had been sited to cover every part of the beach; nevertheless, there were sectors where units landed without meeting any artillery fire whatever. Furthermore, of the nearly 200 craft carrying the assault infantry to shore in the first 2 hours, only about 10 are known to have been hit by artillery before debarking their troops, none was sunk by this fire, and in only a few cases were the casualties serious. Larger craft, particularly LCI's, may have been a favored target for both shore and inland guns, and may have suffered relatively more.

The assault troops experienced their worst disappointment of the day when they found the beach unscarred by air bombardment; they were correct in concluding that the air bombardment had had little effect on the beach defenses. Overcast conditions forced the use of Pathfinder instruments by the Eighth Air Force Liberators. With that technique, the range of possible error in the drop would be so increased as to endanger the approaching waves of landing craft. A bombing plan had already been made to cover this eventuality, by delaying the time of bomb release enough to push the center of the estimated drop patterns well inland,

[11] The only reaction from enemy coastal batteries came earlier, and from eastward; at 0537 guns near Port-en-Bessin put 10 rounds close to the destroyer Emmons and bracketed the Arkansas. Answering fire, including 20 rounds of 12-inch and 110 rounds of 5-inch shells, promptly silenced the enemy guns, but more counterbattery work had to be done on this area later in the morning.

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thus ensuring the safety of the craft. Varying inversely with the distance in time from H Hour, the delay ranged to as much as 30 seconds. The decision to use this alternate plan had to be made on the night preceding D Day and was approved by Supreme Headquarters. It meant that the impact of the bomb weight fell from a few hundred yards to three miles inland, and the main effect, difficult to evaluate without enemy records, was probably to disrupt enemy communications and rear assembly areas. Of 446 Liberators dispatched, 329 attacked, dropping over 13,000 bombs. Their attack had taken place between 0555 and 0614.

The Initial Assault Wave
Ninety-six tanks, the Special Engineer Task Force, and eight companies of assault infantry (1,450 men), landing just before and after 0630, were to carry out the first assault missions (Map No. V).

On the right, the 743d Tank Battalion brought in all its tanks on LCT's. Company B, coming in directly in face of the Vierville draw, suffered from enemy artillery fire. The LCT carrying the company commander was sunk just of shore, and four other officers were killed or wounded, leaving one lieutenant in Company B. Eight of that company's 16 tanks landed and started to fire from the water's edge on enemy positions. The tanks of Companies C and A touched down to the east at well-spaced intervals and without initial losses. In the 16th RCT one, only 5 of the 32 DD tanks (741st Tank Battalion) made shore; of Company A's 16 standard tanks, 2 were lost far off shore by an explosion of undetermined cause, and 3 were hit and put out of action very shortly after beaching. The surviving third of the battalion landed between E-1 and E-3 draws and went into action at once against enemy emplacements.

The Army-Navy Special Engineer Task Force had one of the most important and difficult missions of the landing. Their chances of clearing gaps through the obstacles in the half-hour allotted were lessened by accidents on the approach to the beach. Delays in loading from LCT's to LCM's and in finding their way to the beaches resulted in half of the 16 assault teams reaching shore 10 minutes or more late. Only five team hit their appointed sector, most of them being carried eastward with the result that Dog Beach (the 116th RCT one) received much less than the effort scheduled. As a further effect of mislandings, at least three teams came in where no infantry or tanks were present to give protective fire.

Men burdened with equipment and explosives were excellent targets for enemy fire as they unloaded in water often several feet deep. Of 16 doers only 6 got to the beach in working condition, and 3 of these were immediately disabled by artillery hits. Much equipment, including nearly all buoys and poles for marking lanes, was lost or destroyed before it could be used. Eight navy personnel of Team 11 were dragging the preloaded rubber boat off their LCM when an artillery shell burst just above the load of explosives and set off the primacord. One of the eight survived. Another shell hit the LCM of Team 14, detonating explosives on the deck and killing all navy personnel. Team 15 was pulling in its rubber boat through the surf when a mortar scored a direct hit and touched o the explosives, killing three men and wounding four. Support Team F came in about 0700. A first shell hit the ramp, throwing three men into the water. As the vessel drifted of out of control, another hit squarely on the bow, killing 15 of the team. Only five army personnel from this craft reached shore.

Despite such disasters and under continued intense fire, the engineers got to work on

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obstacles wherever they landed and with whatever equipment and explosives they could salvage. Some of the teams arriving a few minutes late found the rapidly advancing tide already into the lower obstacles. Infantry units landing behind schedule or delayed in starting up the beach came through the demolition parties as they worked, and thereby impeded their progress. One of the three doers left in operation was prevented from maneuvering freely by riflemen who tried to find shelter behind it from the intense fire. As a final handicap, there were instances where teams had fixed their charges, were ready to blow their lane, and were prevented by the fact that infantry were passing through or were taking cover in the obstacles. When Team 7 was set to fire, an LCVP came crashing into the obstacles, smashed through the timbers, and set of seven mines; the charge could not be blown. In another case, vehicles passed through the prepared area and caused misfire by cutting the primacord fuse linking the charges. A naval officer, about to pull the twin-junction igniters to explode his charge, was hit by a piece of shrapnel that cut of his finger and the two fuses. The charge laid by Team 12 went off but at heavy cost. Their preparations completed for a 30-yard gap, the team was just leaving the area to take cover when a mortar shell struck the primacord. The premature explosion killed and wounded 19 engineers and some infantry nearby.

In net result, the demolition task force blew six complete gaps through all bands of obstacles, and three partial gaps. Of the six, only two were in the 116th's half of the beach, and four were on Easy Red (Map No. V), a fact which may have influenced later landing chances. Owing to the loss of equipment, only one of the gaps could be marked, and this diminished their value under high-water conditions. Their first effort made, the demolition teams joined the other assault forces on the shingle or sea wall and waited for the next low tide to resume their work. Casualties for the Special Engineer Task Force, including navy personnel, ran to 41 percent for D Day, most of them suffered in the first half-hour.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/100-11/100-11.htm

[psychocat]

What???
No mention of the fact that the tanks sank before reaching the shore because the captains of the ships wouldn't go any closer.
No mention of the fact that the rocket barrage that should've cleared the beach also ended at the bottom of the sea because the ships firing them wouldn't go close enough to make a difference??
And the ensuing bloodbath as soldiers tried to take a difficult position made even harder because the tanks were sunk and the ships covering fire wasn't even reaching the defenses????


The other beaches didn't encounter as much resistance because tanks did land and covering fire was reasonably accurate , because it wasn't botched and a complete farce, so again I ask how come ??

I agree that leaders are the decision makers and it's joe public who pays , I think any soldiers (or civilian even) death in this situation is one too many.

Wasted life is wasted life!

[Delta9]

you see our country and our corporations are all run by old jack-offs that the problem with our country.

[Delta9]

due?

[NowhereMan]

due?
man that picture was scary
i dont trust that dude at all
he has blood on his hands,he lies to the troops and the civilians

and i just know
he wants all weed smokers locked up ,you can tell by the beedy eyes he is a true prick
rumsfield=nightmare

now merry christmas
have you told congress what you wanted for next christmas
LEGAL WEED

happy ho ho

[Sedater18]

of course man,none at all
i just love it when they get riled a lil and spill out the thoughts
dont you

no dude i dont like This war shit.ive had kin over there getting shot at

but i know america is under attack and that means THEY WANT ME DEAD
all i want to do is live peacefull and be happy,and my kids to be safer.
but hard to do with death squads forming agianst you cuase some rich assholes think its cool to NATION BIULD
i think america needs to FIX ITSELF UP before Fixing other places.
but i still love the usa,at least i love what it
COULD ONE DAY BE
i just want peace,and drugs
period


oh and to mr im 15 and would say that to my face
your fucking jailbiat do you realize your protected by that
of course you do,
see me when you can buy a beer
im not shy about it
live in lincoln county west virginia,and fuck you cops if you look here
"go arrest a real criminal,"

ask anyone around for "Rusty "
they will piont you to your demise you so desire
i dont run,
and i do shoot back,or shoot first if thought is needed
so remember this shit,
z dont run
he dont fight for fun
and he is good with a gun
come on over if you want some

haha

now yaw dont take that serious unless your so uptight you must

Dude Nowhere, I can never quite understand what excatly you are trying to say, but I think I get the general message. You must be pretty high man. :p


i bet most of these pussies havent even been war. nothing fun about it. Fuck you imotep pussy why dont you walk into a crowd of marines and bash them? i bet you wouldnt have the balls thats the differance between you and me i would walk into a crowd of people like you and call all of you pussies because i am an american marine and will kick ass, die or kill for america right or wrong

So if I was your commander, and I asked you to suck my dick and fuck me with a broken PVC pipe, would you do it? :p ;) :D :p

[IthoughtIknewitall]

What country is it? You dont have to hate all Americans though. Im American and I just hate different groups. I hate the Republicans. I hate the democrats. I hate snooty people, which seem to be becoming more common. I really hate people that keep their dogs on short chains and never let them off. I also hate cops that freak out about weed. I hate dealers that try to act like their special, all they are is drug dealers. I hate a whole lot more than what I just I just mentioned. Come to think of it I just might hate you.

[sawleaf]

So if I was your commander, and I asked you to suck my dick and fuck me with a broken PVC pipe, would you do it? :p ;) :D :p

I hope he wouldn't. Marines are not brainwashed to follow orders blindly. We will follow lawful orders, and what you mentioned is not lawful of course, but we are trained to take an order and follow intelligently. Most of the time we are given orders and have to decide ourselves how to carry it out. :)

[IthoughtIknewitall]

Jarheads

[NowhereMan]

Dude Nowhere, I can never quite understand what excatly you are trying to say, but I think I get the general message. You must be pretty high man. :p



So if I was your commander, and I asked you to suck my dick and fuck me with a broken PVC pipe, would you do it? :p ;) :D :p

no i would shoot your sick ass and be awarded a medal for valor :eek:
hahahahaha
what a silly F'n question

[dreadhed]

Im 15 and I'll give you a run for ya money. And yes I would say that to ya face and yes I hate this country as well for it's need to become the 53rd state of America.
Now that is just funny. A little kid getting all mad, & thowing a fit. It's just funny no mater how you look it. lmao

[undead]

nowhereman you rock and so do all of you other patriots i bet most of these pussies havent even been war. nothing fun about it. Fuck you imotep pussy why dont you walk into a crowd of marines and bash them? i bet you wouldnt have the balls thats the differance between you and me i would walk into a crowd of people like you and call all of you pussies because i am an american marine and will kick ass, die or kill for america right or wrong


Marines skull fuck dead iraqi babies. Did you do that too hick? People join the marines because they have no education and cant get a real job.
"I will kill for america right or wrong". You sound like a robot

[sawleaf]

Marines skull fuck dead iraqi babies. Did you do that too hick? People join the marines because they have no education and cant get a real job.
"I will kill for america right or wrong". You sound like a robot

Don't worry about this loser. He's been banned about a million times already, but he keeps coming back because he has no life and likes starting arguments and pissing people off from his desk where he is safe and secure.

[amsterdam]

the kid dosen't have a clue.lol.and the marine that shot that guy in the mosque ,his charges were dismissed ,thank god.

[Delta9]

What about biological agents used as weapons?

Let's see we have: Crimean-Congo Hemorrhagic Fever, Botulism, Glanders, Ebola, smallpox, and Typhoid fever.

That the new issue.

Biological agents have rapidly been exploited by Anti-American militia groups like Al-Queda for use as weapons.
And as American research expands looking for vaccines we face the problem of starting a bioweapons race with other nations, like the nuclear arms race with Russia during the cold war.

[amsterdam]

that should be a fun race.

[Delta9]

Yea really fun. You know I have always wondered about the very first case of AIDS,
How did the AIDS virus get into humans. I mean AIDS before it passed into humans was an immunodeficiency virus found in Monkeys, so it went from monkey to man and spread through the Gay community (as was once thought of as the "Gay plauge") and then to heterosexuals. I have been trying to trace through literature to the earliest case of AIDS. There was also a report by a African American student that AIDS came from a White Man who was having sex with monkeys, and I am white and even though it sounds like some African American urban legend you never know mabey it was true. But there no need to blame gays now I mean the virus in already in circulation, theres not much we can do about it now.

P.S. I don't have sex with monkeys.

[amsterdam]

that will take some time searching through all that!i far far from a medical expert so if you find how a virus changes like that let me know.i remember like a year ago i heard someone speaking on the fact that virus's mutate and what would happen if it became airborne!!holy-shit!!be honest,are you someone that think's the govt. created hiv?

[phillykid420]

I don't think any country is ever right 100% or the time or wrong 100% of the time. The US has committed acts of atrocities like ALL OTHER COUNTRIES. But we've also done a great deal of good.

I think the Geneva Convention is somewhat an antiquated and weird notion. It reminds me of the British redcoats complaining that the American colonists wouldn't fight like gentlemen. They hid behind trees instead of standing in straight lines and getting shot to death. The geneva convention also only applies to another countries military. Al queda and terrorist organizations are not covered under it, but the Iraqi national soldiers would be covered by it. But in this case it really isn't easy to tell the difference. And cutting off the heads of civilians is not covered under the geneva convention either.

And I wouldn't quote Aljezzera as a credible newspaper. Everyone knows they've been sympathetic towards Al Queda, the Bathists and other terrorist networks. You do realize that americans aren't the only group of folks that lie doncha?

France, germany and russia were directly aiding in Saddam circumventing the UN sanctions by dealing in oil with him. They got rich and made Saddam rich at the same time. They knew that if the US went in and overthrew Saddam, their dirty laundry and decade long back room deals with Saddam would come to light.....and they were right cause that's exactly what happened. Where's the outrage over those actions. Russia isn't even listed as a free country anymore. Germany and Japan would both be in a complete state of ruin if we hadn't propped them up through the Monroe Doctrine. and we didn't even make them repay the millions in debt.

Saddam was the first one to ignore the world community, which is why the sanctions were enacted in the first place. Of course it didn't work, since Saddam found bedfellows with the French, Russian and German government. He continually told us he didn't have WMDs but then wouldn't furnish any proof that the weapons he did have (and we know he did have them cause he tested mustard gas on the Kurds) were destroyed. Maybe they don't keep records of that stuff, but they should. He's been uncompliant for decades. And they didn't even really punish him for Kuwait invasion. People are screaming for Bush's head saying he invaded Iraq but what about the invasion of Kuwait, why weren't those folks screaming for Saddam's head? The UN allowed him to run back to Iraq, and wouldn't let Bush Sr. Go in after him and it's been one human rights violation after another since then. All of it could have been averted if the UN would man up and kick some ass when it needs to be kicked.

I think there were better political alternatives to the War in Iraq, or at least a better way to force Saddam into the war. We should have given the UN a time line and said if Saddam doesn't show some credible proof that he has destroyed WMDs and no longer has them then they would have to agree to the War. (of course they wouldn't cause all the countries that voted against the US and Great Britian were found out later to be supporting Saddam) but that would have made them look like the bad guys and not the US. We should have kept the oil for food scandal secret and used that to manipulate France, Germany and Russia to force their hand in helping with the Iraq rebuilding effort. Politics isn't about childish ideology of honesty. If you're the only honest card player at the poker table, you're gonna get all your money taken and go home broke. And I think Bush failed in this sense, he didn't play the part of a good politician.

And if the world community wants me to start listening to them through Nato and the UN. Well, they have to do their part. When there are peace keeping missions the US sends the large majority of troops every single time. During the tsunami we sent our tankers and marines, everyone else sent a handful of guys (well, Japan and Thailand did a great deal) and some money. We put our friends and family on the line while they sit there and talk shit. If the world community wants me to respect them then maybe they shouldn't go against there own sanction and do business with Saddam. Not only does the US house the UN we also pay the large majority of their expenses and we are the ones sending the most troops to assist in their peace keeping goals.

The role of Nato and the UN is in some ways to police the world. The legue of nations failed when it came to Adolf Hitler and Germany, and the UN is a complete failure in their inability to remove terrorist threats.

Spain got hit with a bomb, they removed their troops and some time ago they got hit by another bomb. We warned them that that would be the result, but no, we were the bad guys once again.

[Delta9]

We'll I doubt it will become air born, it does mutate however, the sequence of protiens in the lipid bilayer surrounding the virus change and mutate and as a result of this diversity of HIV strains makes developing a vaccine very difficult.

It could actually have been possible for the government to have created the AIDS virus, but I don't know if I believe that because the U.S. government would never kill their own civilians. If you ask me AIDS is a product of to much 1980's queer buttsex with multiple partners.

I myself don't get anal, even with hot women.

[Delta9]

And I am sorry for the above statments because I know they a sickening and perverse.

[phillykid420]

Biological weapons scare the beejeezuz outta me. Chemical weapons are horrid as well. I had a cell bio professor who graduated from Harvard and had spent some time as a consultant to the military. He was working on making better skin grafts. He was telling us about mustard gas, basically your skin is held down by desmosomes, the mustard gas destroys these desmosomes. So your skin bubbles off your body when it contacts mustard gas.
The difficulty with AIDs is that it doesn't kill people. It destroys their immune system slowly until the person catches a cold which kills them cause they can't mount an immune response. Ebola would be easier in many ways to control since it kills fast, meaning less opporunity for someone infected to walk around the normal population to spread it. But it's airborne so that makes it pretty deadly. A good biological weapon should have a pretty long incubation time so that the victim and infect the population. Small pox would be pretty devestating to a population.
As for how aids mutates, most viruses mutate rapidly due to short generation times. They also have in born mechanisms that make it easier for them to mutate. These are harmful because of the method in which we fight infectious particles. Our immune response in many cases hinges on our cells being able to recognize certain proteins on the surface of a virus. After one attack, in a normal person their immune cells will differentiate to memory cells and effector cells. These memory cells will quickly create antibodies towards these proteins that they recognize. So if these surface proteins constantly change, we can't recognize them. And then the Aids virus infects immune cells so not only can't we recognize them, we can't build up memory cells and mount an effective immune response. So the viral titer just keeps increasing until your white blood cell count drops to the point where a common cold will take you out.

Horrible horrible stuff. I'm sure the origins will never really be found out. Maybe it was a military experiment but I doubt it. Biological weapons designed for military use would choose air borne transmission rather than a blood borne transmission. They also wouldn't wait 30 years to kill someone. Small pox is much more effective and has been around much longer. Since it's been eradicated most places don't stock high volumes of vaccine. One theory I think is more plausible than some white man having his way with some slutty little simian is perhaps a tribal African ate contaminated meat. Maybe it was a cannabalistic tribe or maybe raw monkey is a delicacy to them.

Actually the Spanish Conquistadores used biological warfare by giving the native cultures (I don't remember if they were incan, mayan or aztec) blankets that were used by folks with small pox and other european originating diseases which ended up killing more of these people than the european firearms did.

[amsterdam]

i agree with you philly420 100%!well put!

[amsterdam]

fuck that,don't feel bad delta 9,someone should say it!

[Delta9]

Oh yea mustard gas, it was a WWI chemical agent, some nasty stuff. I don't know much about biology so id don't know all about the growth cycle and gentics of bateria and viruses, but they can spread quickly and kill lots of people. They are so portable and small cause the bioweapons are gonna' multiply on their own and keep reproducing themselves.

And yea your right about the African tribal thing, the simian with their male wives and shit. I'm not against the usage of plants as drugs for "Herbal/Traditional medicine" but In Africa the folk remedy for AIDS is Virgin cleansing, i.e. it is believed that the cure for AIDS is to rape a virgin. I am against that.

[Delta9]

And with respect to George B_sh,

"in spite of what happened in the 60's and 70's we learned lessons."

No you just got older. Smoke Herb.

[Torog]

and that makes it okay to use napalm? guess again
Howdy Ghost,

I reckon that you missed the part,where we said that we would use any weapon in our arsenal,to destroy the terrorists..that includes incenderary devices and bombs,if need be. Napalm serves many uses,it's good for clearing a 'hot' LZ,it cooks off any explosives or explosive devices,destroy's booby-traps and takes out any enemy using buildings or ground cover,and is in effect-an area-denial munition,but temporary in duration.

If we're using the M-77 ,then it was determined to be the best weapon for the job,by highly-trained officers. If civilians don't want to be exposed to it's effects,they should leave the area and stop harboring the terrorists..it's just that simple..if they are harboring the terrorists,then they are no longer innocent civilians.

[amsterdam]

it's napalm,it's ugly!IT'S WAR!they aren't playing paintball.

[Delta9]

Oh Napalm, yea we dumped lots of flaming napalm on the jungles of cambodia and Vietnam trying to clear out the bush so we could find Mr. Charlie Victor. Flame throwers were aslo utilized in the pacific trying to burn out stubborn Japanese from their holes.

[amsterdam]

and we should continue to use it!