A Bit of Sex Education

[Primus]

Hey guys, first time posting, but I've been reading for a long time.

I'm hoping someone can give me a quick sex on this plant. I've got two growing, although I can't recall how long they've been vegetating for. - to be honest I didn't take growing seriously until like three weeks after seedlings. it was at that point that I actually decided to build a growbox and see if I couldn't get a decent plant out of all of this.

But anyway, I've been doing lots and lots of reading about growing, about horticulture in general, and about special needs of our favorite plant, and I think I've got a pretty good understanding of the process. The only thing I can't really tell is the sex of my plants.

I'm doing LST with both plants, but the one in the picture would probably be about 12" tall if it were straight up. The bottom of the stem is around 3/8" thick. This is the first time i've asked a question about growing, most of what I know has been purely through reading other growlogs, and several books worth of information on this site and others.

I've compared them to lots of pictures, and at first I thought they were male, but now i'm starting to think that if they are male, the stamen are in the wrong places. Then again they could be female, and the hairs just haven't come out yet. Or maybe I'm misinterpreting what I'm seeing. After many many pictures I've finally got one that sorta shows what i can see. Both plants show the same little nubs, so I'm certain that they're the same sex, whatever it is. I'm at the point now though, where I just have to choose one, because I only have space to grow out one plant. I've got a rubbermaid tub setup similar to Bodom Children Of .

Honestly, I've stressed the hell out of these plants. I'm certain, that at the very least they'll be hermies. If they're hermies, I'll still want to grow them out anyway, so I understand the lifecycle of the plant better, but if they're just males, then I'll probably start over.

Any help you can provide would be great. Thanks!

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Can you get us a clearer pic hon?

[Primus]

honestly, no. At least, not at the moment. Unless someone can send me a jeweler's loupe. I took about thirty pictures on my digital camera with every setting i could change to try to get a clear shot. that's the best i could do.

I think maybe i'll try to rig up something with a magnifying glass, but so far this is all I can provide, sorry.

[Bree1978]

IA....I can't tell from those pics really. I would hold off throwing anything out until a hair reveals itself....If they are female, it will be any day by the looks of it.

I use a plastic magnifying 'glass'
:jointsmile: Bree

[Primus]

Alright, I think I did better this time. I butchered a disposable camera, and taped the lens in front of the lens of my digital camera. this is the best I'm going to get.

They're starting to look male to me, i hope i'm wrong.

[Bree1978]

I don't know....looks more fem to me. Esp. pic two. Don't throw them out until you have more than one ball. I still think you may have a hair pop out. You have nothing to loose right?

:jointsmile: Bree

[burnable]

I don't know..from my experience when I'm able to see any sort of pod like that and not easily see a solid white hair, it tends to be male. :(
but don't give up hope that it might be a girl; it could just be a strain thing

[Primus]

I should just add that I changed their lightcycle yesterday to 12/12. i was hoping to see hairs before I did, because I didn't want to re-pot them while in flowering. but they're getting big enough each of them, that I need to get rid of one so the other can grow. theres not enough room for two.

the nubs started appearing like 2-3 days ago but I couldn't wait to find out what they were. I just figured, "well they're showing pre-flowers, I guess it's time".

Did i error or did i do good?

[Primus]

with respect to my previous post, how long should it be until I can see hairs?

[Abattoir Dream]

there should be a tiny one by now... surely.. is it round?

[Primus]

Well, theres good news and bad news.

Like I said, I have two plants. What I didn't say is that one of the plants is semi-retarded. It's grown very short while the other one has grown and spread very well. the retarded one was transplanted in it's peat pot while the other one was taken out of the peat pot before transplanting (I wanted to see how well these things work) - I'll never use a peat pot ever again. The Retarded plant has roots coming up out of the soil and everything - it's a real mess.

regardless of this, the retarded plant has little hairs poking out today. Definately a female (or at least a hermaphrodite, which would also be fine). The big one, which is really twice the size bigger with nice big fan leaves to suck up the light, still isn't showing other than those little buds.

I'm hoping to see something today before 7:30pm, when the darkcycle starts.

[Bree1978]

Was it the plant in pic two that was a fem????

Well congrats. Since you just changed the timer a day ago...I'd change it back so you can repot and veg a little longer...get her stong and healthy before you ask her to bear fruit.

boo to peat!

:jointsmile: Bree

[Primus]

unfortunately, no.. it's the retarded one that's a definate fem.

Here's a full shot of both plants.

the retarded one is the one in front. You can't tell from the picture so much, but it's much smaller and uglier than the larger beauty in the back (the one that all the other pictures came from). The small one is definately a fem, but I don't know if it'll live through flowering at this point. It's not doing very well.

The rear one is the one with the buds in the pictures, but no hairs yet.

Bree, it's been two days now on 12/12. I don't think it's a good idea to change back to veg at this point, is it? both of them have nice thick stalks for their size, I don't think they're too weak to flower. I just don't know IF they'll flower.

At this point I'm just crossing my fingers and waiting.

[Primus]

just wanted to add a few pics before darkcycle starts, and hopefully get some opinions on them.


the first two pics are of the healthier plant, the buds that i can't identify yet.

The third pic is the same plant. it seems to be a stray hair, and it's elsewhere in the plant. I don't think it was there before. Is that what i want to see? or is it just an anomaly?

The fourth pic is from the retarded plant. I couldn't get a clearer shot, but that's supposed to show the two little pods each with a small hair growing out the tip. Am I mis-reading this one?

Also, some leaf tips are turning brown. just the last 1/8 of an inch or so, and it's somewhat sporadic. i've only seen a few with this condition, but i'd like to catch a problem before it starts.

please share with me your opinions. thanks.

[Primus]

two pics didn't show up in that post, how odd... they uploaded though, so here they are.

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125142&d=1174086095
http://boards.cannabis.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=125143&d=1174086095

[dutch.lover]

personally, i wouldnt worry about sex too much at this point. Your plants are barely, if at all, showing sex, so you have a pretty long time to weed out any males once they show themselves. Males are REALLY obvious once their gonads start showing. So I would just chill out, let them do their thing under 12/12, and hopefully you won't see balls (males) in the future.

ps: your plants look amazing from the pics you provided, so i don't think u need more vegging time. Good work!

[Primus]

so this is promising...

found this on the bigger one. It's the only node with a real hair right now, and it's on the main cola, near new growth. Theres still only one of those bud shaped things on each level so far, with none on the side branches.

It makes me hopeful. I need to know soon, because the big one is running out of room for adequate light.

Thanks for the kind words dutch.lover!

[Primus]

pic didn't attach - here you go

[Primus]

Also, some leaf tips are turning brown. just the last 1/8 of an inch or so, and it's somewhat sporadic. i've only seen a few with this condition, but i'd like to catch a problem before it starts.

Is there anyone that can help with this problem?

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Is there anyone that can help with this problem?
Lots of anyones! To make it easier, can you give us some details? Start logging your grow. People are going to want to know how old they are, how long they've been on 12/12, what strain if you have that info, your lighting system, how big your space is, what you're feeding them etc. The more particulars you can give the easier it will be for someone to guide you.

And by someone, I mean anyone but me. I am a both a n00b and a retard. But I will cheer you on all the way.:D

[Primus]

ok, well...

Don't know exactly how old the plants are, since I didn't really keep track of this grow, just started one day.
They've been on 12/12 for 5 days now.
Bagseed.
The lighting is 6/23w CFLs, in a double Rubbermaid-tub growbox - Well vented, plants are not too close to lights.
I'm feeding them miracle gro professional formula all purpose plant food. it's the only plant food around here that's 20-20-20. It's not the basic one you see in home depot... that one is like 15-27-13 or something. When they were young i gave them a really dillouted mixture, but i've upped it, as they've grown.
They're in organic choice potting mix.
I water them every other day or so. there is adequate drainage in the pots they're in, but I don't over-water them anyway.

I have a soil test kit, but I have to pick up some distilled water before i can use it. so i can't check the soil just yet.

Hope that helps

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Whee! Thanks for the info. Now just sit back and wait for the calvary. And post some pics if you can.

[Primus]

heres some pictures.

first one is new growth on the retarded plant.

second one is the "good" plant.

on the good plant, it's not as prevalent as the retarded plant, which leads me to believe that the abnormal root structure of the retarded plant is aiding this deformity. but it scares me that it's happening to both plants, so it must be something I am doing to them. what is it?

some tips are crispy too, just beyond the brown area, and will easily snap off if you crush them with your fingers. Just the tips though, the rest of the leaf seems to be fine.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Okay, my retarded opinion is overfert. Flush them and let them chill out for a bit. Next watering, give them 1/2 strength bloom nutes. :thumbsup:

Doggone it! Where did all the grow gurus go? I'll try to scare one up for you so you don't have to rely on my limited knowledge. In the meantime, here's a link International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles! (http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688)

[Primus]

bloom nutrients? is that a fertillizer heavy in phosphorous?

[Bree1978]

IA, it looks like you overfed or have salt build up. I would water well with plain ph'd water. Bloom nutes should have a higher phosphorus number, but not HUGE, it's a waste...and causes stretching (I got that info from either KindPrincess or Scarlet Sky).

:jointsmile: Bree

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Yessir.
edit: What Bree said.
G'mornin Bree!

Primus, check my growlog for pics of what happens if you have a really high P nute.

BTW, Primus rules!!!

[Primus]

BTW, Primus rules!!!

No, my dear. Primus Sucks!

Thanks for the growinfo. I'll try to find some bloom ferts.

Also, how do I add rep? I don't see any buttons or links. I know how to do it on other forums, but on this one I can't seem to figure it out.

[Bree1978]

I don't think you can yet, til you reach fifty posts. But if you can, it is on each of the individual posts- sigified as a gray scale right after the word permalink in the right hand corner. :jointsmile:Bree

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

No, my dear. Primus Sucks!


No no no. Green Jelly Sucks.

Sheesh.







;)

[Primus]

Well now... I may have just done the dirty deed on my babies...

The plants were getting to big for their box, so I had no choice but to select one and go for it, so I selected the healthier of the two for re-potting. No wonder it's had stunted growth lately, the roots were terribly bound in the pot it was in... I'm an unfit parent, wah!

The plant I selected still wasn't showing hairs, but i'm fairly certain it's female. I think it's growth has been stunted because of the root boundedness, and I think now that it's been re-potted, i hope it'll recover.

I also determined that the ph of the soil I was using was a little low - but when I repotted, I ran out of the soil, so i had to use Miracle Grow potting soil (I KNOW, A BIG NO NO)...

I added some ph-up to the first watering, so hopefully it'll all balance up...

or the plant will die and I'll start over, which is fine too (but kind of a bummer).

please find it in your heart to pray to the gods of cannabis for me...

[Primus]

Looks like I made the right decision!

The plant has come back very healthy and has really started to show it's sex. It's definately female.

I've got to keep a good eye on it to make sure no balls show up still, because A.) it was bagseed, and B.) I stressed the ever loving crap out of this plant. But at this point I'm very happy with the decision I made. And if anyone missed what happened to the other plant, check it out here:

http://boards.cannabis.com/basic-growing/108719-why-not-use-peat-pots.html

[Primus]

Just an update if anyone cares.

The girl has been doing very well although she's having a big problem with brown leaf tips. She's been blooming well, but I'm finding that some branches are doing much better than others.

For several reasons, this plant has grown irregularly. A.) Because it started it's life out as a windowsill plant, for several weeks, it never grew the height that it needed to be, so later on as it started to grow, when I LST'd it to keep it low, there were areas of branches that just couldn't make it - they were too covered by plumage to get any light. The whole plant is really a bush right now... It's ok, because i've seen at least 10 different budsites start to form, so i'm hoping to get at least some yield from her.

So a lot of the branches that had brown tips were formally in the middle not getting any light and i figured because of the failed growing early on - (after I re-potted I could tie them better so that i could get more light down to the bottom). But i've noticed that it's spreading, so i've decided to stop feeding and just water with plain water for like two weeks. I'm hoping that'll clean out the plant's system, right? maybe? please?

She's definately showing her hairs, they're all over the thing. So far I haven't seen a single ball, which is surprising. If it is a hermy, it's not showing it yet. If It is hermy, would it wait until later to show? does it matter if it's Hermaphroditic nature is caused by pre-determination or by growing conditions?

Also I'm including a picture of my setup. It's an aluminum tape covered double rubbermaid tote growbox. Very simple. Six CFL's in the hood. There's a computer fan in the beginning of that metal tube where it meets the tote - that was my original vent. I later added on the odor scrubber, with a second in-line fan. when you remove the top tote, half of the tube comes with it. it slips over the top of the tube, which is attached to the carbon scrubber. it all sits level on the floor together. I'm eventually going to make a cart for the whole thing so I can move it around.

That's if I decide to keep this setup. My plant is getting really big and I'm starting to worry about keeping it all fitted nicely inside the totes. I have problems with leaves sticking out now, that I have to tuck back in. Do you think maybe I should prune it?

That's all for now. Thanks in advance for reading, and possibly caring.

P.S. Sorry about the rotated photos. I rotated them, but apparently Mac is being lazy.

[Primus]

alright, since apparently no one likes to have to read, i'll condense my post in the hope of getting some answers.

A.) Tips are brown, I'm wondering if it's from over-fertillizing. Can I just water several times with plain water and hope for it to get better or do I have to flush it, and if so, how do I flush?

B.) If it's hermy due to conditions, not genetics, will I find out sooner or later?


C.) The plant is very bunched up due to it having a very irregular early life - should I prune some leaves to make room for others?

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Primus, don't be emotional. We all get busy being stoned and having lives.^ This is a huge community, and if you don't get an answer as quickly as you might need, then you can pick a member that you feel has trustworthy knowledge, and download their vcard. A vcard contains that member's contact info. E-mail them.

On to your Qs.
A.) Those aren't brown. Those are bleached. Not much you can do about it, considering you're growing in a couple of totes. It's called light chlorosis. Your lights are too close, and it's sucking the chlorophyll out.

B.) Yes. You'll probably find out sooner if it's due to genetics.

C.) No, not unless they're dead/dying.

[Primus]

Primus, don't be emotional. We all get busy being stoned and having lives.^ This is a huge community, and if you don't get an answer as quickly as you might need, then you can pick a member that you feel has trustworthy knowledge, and download their vcard. A vcard contains that member's contact info. E-mail them.

I know it's a huge community, thats why its easy to get bummed when no one pays you any mind. But that aside, I'm not so much emotional, as I am in a race for time. I was worried that my girl were gonna die. Can't have that now! ;)



On to your Qs.
A.) Those aren't brown. Those are bleached. Not much you can do about it, considering you're growing in a couple of totes. It's called light chlorosis. Your lights are too close, and it's sucking the chlorophyll out.
OH! well hell, had I known that, I would've removed all the CDs in the tote! lol. I'll get on that right away. It's only a few inches but It could help... I'll have to look into repositioning the lights too I think.



B.) Yes. You'll probably find out sooner if it's due to genetics.

C.) No, not unless they're dead/dying.

If it's environmental, will they still grow balls on the main stem, or just inside the buds? (as those banana things)

Thanks for the help Greenjeans!

[elway07]

good luck

[Bodom Children Of]

patience, my son. In due time you will find the sex. Start experiementing, don't go into growing thinking about final product. I just try not to even give a shit about the plants besides the basics. These things take time and even then it's a gamble. Out of sight out of mind.

[Primus]

eh? oh this chick is definately female. Very much female. We're now into the fourth week of flowering, and she looks very pretty. I just stopped posting updates because no one was paying attention anyway :)

[Primus]

Here, just to show. these were taken just a few hours ago

And no signs of hermy yet!

[Primus]

ok, four weeks and three days since i changed the light cycle to 12/12.

here's some yummy photos. this chick has budsites all over. I took a picture of one of the biggest two flowering stalks so far. it's about 6" long and 1-1/4" thick (solid area, not including stray hairs) right now. I'm pretty happy with that one alone, but there are buds on every single branch. I could see this planet yielding 1-1/2oz or more. We've still got plenty of time so i'm definately happy with the way it's looking.

And still no signs of hermy, so I'm starting to think I'm in the clear.

Also I was wondering if someone could be kind enough to move this thread to the Grow Log forum, since it's turned into a bit more of a grow log. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

[Primus]

Happy 4/20 everyone!

I'm having an issue with my girl, check it out... a couple of leaves are starting to show signs of problems.

It MAY be from missing a day on watering. i was away for a few days, and unfortunately she dried out a day longer then normally. before i was able to water again. She was looking pretty wilted. I watered her thoroughly, and the next day she looked good again. this was a few days ago. today I noticed some leaves starting this pattern of leaf browning. check the picture for detail.

I have another cabinet I can transplant this whole operation into, but I'm afraid of switching the environment on her and making her a hermy at this point. I'd like to finish this grow in the tubs, but If the cause is something like photosynthesis bleaching, then I may have to move it. There's still space between the lights and the plant, but I dunno maybe that's the culprit. I'm hoping someone can identify the spots.

The ph is normal, or it was before a recent watering - but my water is stable, and I havent fertillized in about a week. I was planning on giving her some nutes today.

she's been in flower for just over five weeks now. any advice would be appreciated. thanks.

[Primus]

I was thinking that the brown spots might be from the heat inside the totes, so i decided to do a somewhat rash thing. I moved the whole grow into my new cabinet (I wanted to complete this grow inside the tubs, but I was too worried about them dying before they are ready for harvest.

I'm kinda worried that I might stress her out and make her hermy but I figure hermy is better than dead.

I rigged up this setup tonight, and I think it'll work well.

It looks dark in the photo, but I assure you it's mighty bright inside. I'll probably add some more bulbs when I get the chance but for now it's fine.

All the extra space gave me some great opportunity to re-tie a lot of the branches, and I think the girl will do much better now. Tomorrow morning when the light cycle starts again, I'm going to prop her up on some risers.

I could still use some advice about the problem in the last post, if anyone is reading. Thanks!