Can God create a rock he can't lift?

[mr chinnery]

I read that somewhere a while ago, just wondering what any religious types think about that.

[meek mike]

I love the cheap tricks people like to pull. I will not answer the question because either way you answer the answer is wrong in the questionaries eyes. For example of a question this person might ask his friends:


Have you told your parents your gay yet?

or

If you went camping with a bunch of same sex friends and you woke up with your butt hole hurting would you tell?

Give a real question to address not some trick question. Thanks.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[BradPitt]

Ousted...

[mr chinnery]

Hello Reverend, why not go get your dictionary and look up 'question'? I think mine above fulfils the definition. I'm not trying to pull 'cheap tricks', just get an informed opinion from an intelligent Christian. Unfortunately you do not seem to be one. I'm not asking you for a definitive answer because your brain is too small, I'm just trying to open your eyes a little. As for your examples, I fail to see how they are remotely similar to my question. On a different note, you seem to have some sort of complex about your sexuality.

[BradPitt]

WTF bro? You need to chill out man. If youre getting pissed off and trying to be the "alpha male" and degrade him because he didnt give you what you wanted to hear maybe you should take a "time out". These silly cutdowns arent gonna impress anyone.

Be well-

?!

[mr chinnery]

It's not a cutdown Brad!I don't want to upset anyone!I was accused of pulling cheap tricks, after asking a perfectly reasonable question. How can we have intelligent debates about real philosophical questions with answers like that?

[Imotep]

there is no rock that isnt so big a crust shattering magma malfunction couldnt launch into the moon. :D

[meek mike]

Ok kid, I'll humor you and save my time by answering what you would have wrote.

Your question:

Can God create a rock he can not lift?

My answer: Yes, God can do anything.

Your answer: If he can make a rock he can't lift then he can't do everything because he can't lift that rock.


Your question:

Can God create a rock he can't lift?

My answer: No, because God can do anything and he can lift any rock he creates.

Your answer: Well then, if God can do anything why can't he create a rock he can't lift.

Are you happy little one. Your question that has been around for years most likely longer then you and I have been around has been answered by both sides a yes and a no. I hope that helped your so confused mind. Did that clear up anything for you.

Next time think of some thing a little harder. Oh and you really should tell your parents. They might take it well.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ and cannnabis

[GHoSToKeR]

God doesnt exist

So no, he cant create anything, and he cant lift anything, either, because he doesnt exist.. so umm, i guess the answer is Yes and No

[Imotep]

dude i was reading theres bushfres that remove parts of hills, tyhey crate their own climate, tornadoes of fire.
look to nature for his, its, her,the, great acts.

[FrenchInhale]

Yeah that is what I was going to say, got created every rock on the earth, and I think people forget about all of natures storms etc... I would think that a tornado could lift a rock, and that tornado is just the imagination of God, so umm yeah he can lift a rock.

[mr chinnery]

But doesn't the question illustrate how impossible God's omnipotence is?If he is all powerful he should be able to create a rock he can't lift; but then if he can't lift it he isn't all powerful...A tornado probably could lift a rock frenchinhale, but surely God could create a rock that no tornado could lift...

[GHoSToKeR]

But doesn't the question illustrate how impossible God's omnipotence is?If he is all powerful he should be able to create a rock he can't lift; but then if he can't lift it he isn't all powerful...A tornado probably could lift a rock frenchinhale, but surely God could create a rock that no tornado could lift...
Though I see what you're trying to say, the way you're going about it doesn't quite hold. If God exists, and he is omnipotent, then surely he would be able to 'lift' anything he created... The point that he can't create something that he can't lift is irrelevant, and is merely 'clutching at straws', so to speak, if not only mentioned to create an arguement.

Actually, come to think of it, this question, to me, is irrelevant, because I don't believe, and can't comprehend, that God even does exist. So as I mentioned earlier (if not slightly revised, after some thought), if he doesn't exist, then no, he can't create a rock that he can't lift, because something that doesn't exist can't do anything, let alone create a rock. :)

[mr chinnery]

I agree with you that God doesn't exist, but us non-believers have the ability to think hypothetically, I hope. The question is meant to illustrate an atheist viewpoint, and naturally to start an argument (in the true sense of the word). As an atheist the question shouldn't be irrelevant to you, it's actually very useful in arguments with Christians and worth thinking about...

[meek mike]

I'm not trying to pull 'cheap tricks', just get an informed opinion from an intelligent Christian.

This is just not true. You tell your real reason later in the thread.


The question is meant to illustrate an atheist viewpoint, and naturally to start an argument.

You couldn't argue because I answered what you wanted to argue about. I first heard the question asked to my father a Baptist Preacher when I was 13 years old. That was over 13 years ago. So if you think you are coming up with something no one else has heard your mistaken. If you want to start an arguement about religion or God just make a thread that says "Arguement about Religion and God" I'll bet there will be alot of people wanting to get in on that. I prefer the BLUNT approach rather then the "here's a question that can only be answered with the wrong answer" approach.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[Euphoric]

i think the answer is no. god couldnt make a rock like that. thank you.

[mr chinnery]

So if you think you are coming up with something no one else has heard your mistaken

Not really; I did say I read it somewhere else...

[mr chinnery]

Also Reverend, you never actually gave your opinion on what the question means to you as a Christian...i.e does it at all make you doubt any aspect of your faith?

[meek mike]

Why would a question make me doubt my faith? Another thing is you never asked for an opinion on the question you ask to answer the question which I did. I also as you can remember gave the remarks you would have made. Which you did not deny proving that, that was the remarks you would have made if someone just answered yes or no. Question for you:

Why don't you believe in God?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[meek mike]

Another thing is you never asked for an opinion on the question you ask to answer the question which I did.

My bad you asked what we think about it. I guess that could mean our opinon on the question. So here is my opinion. I think it's a cheap trick to start an argument that who knows would have won.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[hempheadjack]

god made weed

[meek mike]

I can't read the tat very well but I'm guessing it say something like:

Man made beer, God made weed, who do you trust more?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[hempheadjack]

I can't read the tat very well but I'm guessing it say something like:

Man made beer, God made weed, who do you trust more?

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ
yes it do,,i took if off a lighter i have,,can you read this one better?

[mr chinnery]

Why don't you believe in God? Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

There's no evidence.

[GHoSToKeR]

the question shouldnt be "why dont you believe in god?", it should be "why should we believe in God?"

[mr chinnery]

Yeah- What's he ever done for me?

[Lulu]

Yeah- What's he ever done for me?
*flash back* Life of Brian ~lol~ the Romans :D

[meek mike]

Ghostoker and Mr Chinnery-

Those are both good questions. Better then that baiting question at least. This is my personal view so please take it as such.

Why should you believe in God?

That is a thinker. A few reason first you have some one to thank for the things that happen good in your life. Second you have someone to yell at when things go bad. Third you have someone there to talk to 24/7. Fourth you may get in his good favor and get the extra sticky icky in heaven. Fifth he sent his son to free us from rules/laws etc that we could up hold. Sixth you believe in many things you can't see why not one more. Seventh it could give meaning to your good deeds. Eigth "Vengance is mine says the Lord" so you don't have to worry if the person that did you wrong will get his or hers. These are just a few that justify to me why I believe in God.

What has he done for me?

Another thinker. I don't know you so I can't point out all the good things that have happened in your life but first your breathing so thats one thing he's done for you. Second he sent his son to earth to die and take away all the shame, guilt, general bad things you've done in your whole life. Third your on the internet (home or not ???) I personally only have access to the internet at work so I'm guessing God has provided you or your family with good brains to make good money. Fourth you can do what ever you want so he has given you free will. Fifth Cannabis. Right there is enough for me. Look all around you there are lots of things God has provid for you. Like Air, gravity, hair ( I'm not blessed in that department), cannabis, fire, lungs, water, ice, etc.

This is the kind of topic I like to talk about cannabis and God. My two favorite things.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ and Cannabis

[GHoSToKeR]

Though I disagree, mike, that was still a cool post :)

[mr chinnery]

That's not a personal view really, it's what christian doctrine has taught you; you are simply repeating it. I like to think I'm responsible for the good things in my life; and the bad things; we are our own masters of our destinies. I'm a student now, but when I worked full time I went and worked my nuts off to pay bills, buy weed, whatever; not God. It's the drugs the doctors give my nan that keep her cancer at bay, not God. I'm breathing because I am a biological organism, not because God imbued me with life. You only believe my last question was better than the rock one because your faith has given you the 'answers' to the last one. Your faith cannot answer the impossibility of an omnipotent being.

[GHoSToKeR]

That's not a personal view really, it's what christian doctrine has taught you; you are simply repeating it. I like to think I'm responsible for the good things in my life; and the bad things; we are our own masters of our destinies. I'm a student now, but when I worked full time I went and worked my nuts off to pay bills, buy weed, whatever; not God. It's the drugs the doctors give my nan that keep her cancer at bay, not God. I'm breathing because I am a biological organism, not because God imbued me with life. You only believe my last question was better than the rock one because your faith has given you the 'answers' to the last one. Your faith cannot answer the impossibility of an omnipotent being.
right on.. i dont really have much to add to this post, because i am slightly stoned, please continue, the fire exits are here, here and here, in case of emergency there is a life jacket situated under your seats

[mr chinnery]

Hey Ghostoker, you might be interested in http://www.infidels.org/news/atheism/logic.html. Useful site for folk of the Atheist persuasion...

[GHoSToKeR]

thanks man, ill check it out :)

[meek mike]

Ghostoker and Mr Chinnery-

Your view is your view. I'm a christian and I know why most people dislike christians. It's because they are intolerant and always saying and doing stuff like marching against gay folk or yelling a teens because they screwed up thinking the boy loved her. Every religion has it's fanatics even aithest have thier fanatics like the ones that go to Christian web sites just to fuck with Christians. I personally don't care to much for religion but what I do care about is following Jesus. I know what your most likely thinking. If you follow Jesus then your a Christian. The term Christian is a political tag that people use to seperate people. (My belief) I believe Jesus/God/Holy Spirit are all one person just as I am a father, Husband, and son. I believe the Holy Spirit lives in everyone some call it our conscience I like to call it the Holy Spirit. I believe the Holy Spirit (conscience) is in constant communication with God. Thats why when we were younger and we did something wrong we didn't need anyone to tell us it was wrong we felt it. I believe walking in the spirit is walking a day to day life but listening to your conscience (Holy Spirit) and doing what is right. You don't believe is God, thats your choice but do you believe in your conscience. How can your conscience know what's right or wrong with out anyone telling it/you. That was the first step to me believing there is a God. I couldn't come up with how I already knew something was ok to do and something was not ok to do. Then there are the things that happen that I can't explain for example when I was younger I bought some Christma gift for my family. I didn't have much money but I did know how much I had. I bought the gifts and still had five bucks left. On my way home I walked past a homeless man. I didn't give him anything cause I only had five bucks. About five minutes later I started to feel bad because it was close to Christmas and the guy was homeless so I walked back and gave him the five bucks. I got home and wraped the gifts and left with my parents to (the dreaded word) church. When we got there they were having a Annie Armstrong something or another. Tithing for Missions or something anyways. All my friends were putting in money and I didn't have any because I gave my last five bucks to the homeless guy. I opened my wallet to show a friend I didn't have money and guess what. I know you don't believe it but there was eight dollars in there. So I dropped three and kept my five bucks. I figured I gave it up once and I doubt that will happen again so I kept it. True story. I don't know where the money came from who know my parents could have put it in my wallet but I'll never know. I can't explain everything in my life and the things I can't explain I think they were God sends. Maybe havebeen things like that which happened to you. Only you know. I'm not going to preach at you all I do really is tell life experiences. I'm tolerant of everyone because thats what the Bible tells me to do. Those Christians that do different I can't judge because I'm only a human on this earth it's God's job to judge but I do know they make it harder for people like me in this world. Every cannabis web site I go to people give me shit because I'm a Christian. It's an everyday thing for me. I hope my side (Christians) don't do that to you because I know how upset it makes me. I did my job as a follower of Christ and that was to tell you of the free gift of forgiveness granted by the sacrifice of Jesus. May my Lord and Savior watch over you and protect you from the bad the world has to offer and may my Lord Bless you and may the smoke you love fill your heart with joy. I know it does for me.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[GHoSToKeR]

mike, im not gonna give you shit for being Christian! you seem like a decent guy, i'd only give you shit if you were a 'fanatic' as you call it, and gave me abuse for not believing in God

Things (liek the one u described) have happened to me, but I dont think that it was a God send... I just believe that things happen. Thats it. Thats all i believe - Things happen. They dont happen for a reason, nothing is making them happen, they just happen. It helps me get through each day :)

[mr chinnery]

I don't want you to think I'm giving you shit, I'm just trying to understand why and what people, especially religious people, believe, because it's something I've never had. That post was really interesting.I suppose my 'God' is science, science is what I look toward for explanations.
That's an interesting anecdote about the money. Unsurprisingly I don't believe in ghosts, but my mum swears she sensed 'presences' in a house she and my dad and sister used to live in. I can't explain what it was, but I'm not going to say ghosts exist just because my mum believes she sensed it. There is a rational explanation for everything, including the appearance of your cash, it's just neither you or I know what it is.
As for the statement on conscience, my conscience is my conscience, not God's. It was Rev. Michael T who made the decision somewhere along the line that it is morally right to smoke cannabis, but i'll bet there are a lot more Christians who believe otherwise. Surely if God is in everyone, we would have the same consciences and there would be no debate on good and evil in the world. Nonetheless, it's an interesting take on how Christians (don't mean to pigeon-hole you!) feel they can communicate with God.
At the end of the day, if people are happy through their beliefs then that's the main thing!

[hempheadjack]

and god said to moses..look ,,weed over there,,lets cut it down,,its overgrown,we need to burn it,,just a little homemade joke to ease the days

[meek mike]

Thank you both for being gentelmen about this conversation. I agree with Ghostoker that things happen. There have been may things in my life that I can't explain. You believe they just are I believe there's a purpose. Both are right because both are our views. I believe Mr Chinnery that people shouldn't believe just because a loved one says they should believe. Speaking of your mother and Ghosts. There was just alittle that I didn't agree with in your post thou Mr. Chinnery and that is we all wouldn't have the same view of ggod and evil because we are all convicted of different things. For example I don't do coke any more. I have friends that do still and tehy are hard core followers of Christ just as I. They aren't convicted of useing coke because they have never abused it. I'm convicted of coke because I over abused it. Almost causing my wife to die of an overdose. Just as we disagree about things because we feel different I believe everyone is convicted of different things. Thats one of the main, ok that is the reason I stopped going to church. Every church I went to I heard sermons about the Pastors conviction. I don't think that is Christ like because that is making others feel guilty for thier own convictions. Now I'm a Rev. and try not to make the same mistakes as those I had a problem with. If I ever do start to preach my conviction I ask that both of you fucking YELLLLLL at me so I can stop before I turn any more poeple off of Jesus. Anyways thanks for being cool and keep on smoking that special plant we all love.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[mr chinnery]

Must have been how God relaxed on the seventh day...

[meek mike]

Must have been how God relaxed on the seventh day...

You got me blushing now. I most def agree about that.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[NowhereMan]

WTF bro? You need to chill out man. If youre getting pissed off and trying to be the "alpha male" and degrade him because he didnt give you what you wanted to hear maybe you should take a "time out". These silly cutdowns arent gonna impress anyone.

Be well-

?!

and your piont was??
ps
with a named like bradpitt
pray.
is all i can say
even though i dont

[jacquelyne]

AYERS ROCK
GOOD LUCK MOVING THAT BEAST LOL

[KennabisCranium]

GT, since you asked,
Believing in God and The Holy Messiah is like insurance. I believe in The Almighty and everything in the Bible and it doesn't cost me anything to do so. I haven't changed a thing about me, and I'm going to Heaven when I die. Nonbelievers will die and burn in hell for all eternity.

[Buck268]

I do find the lack of evidence of god existance a startling discrepency, but it does not waiver my faith.

[Shadow Smoke]

I love the cheap tricks people like to pull. I will not answer the question because either way you answer the answer is wrong in the questionaries eyes. For example of a question this person might ask his friends:


Have you told your parents your gay yet?

or

If you went camping with a bunch of same sex friends and you woke up with your butt hole hurting would you tell?

Give a real question to address not some trick question. Thanks.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ


ummm dude? i umm ... ???? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[GHoSToKeR]

I believe in The Almighty and everything in the Bible and it doesn't cost me anything to do so. I haven't changed a thing about me, then i salute you :)

[kr1Nx01]

The existance of a paradox disprooves whatever notion it was formed for.

For instance, time travel. Say someone invented a time machine to fix some catastrophic event that happened in the past. He or she goes back in time and corrects the problem... but that would then mean the problem never existed in the "future", therefore the time machine wouldn't have been created to fix it, therefore it would've never been fixed; therefore time travel to the past is IMPOSSIBLE.

"Can God create a rock he cannot move?" ~Yet another paradox..... ;)

[meek mike]

Nonbelievers will die and burn in hell for all eternity.

Although we share the same faith and beliefs I don't think this is necessary to talk about. Most people when talking with a Christian know what our beliefs are about those that don't believe as we do. By telling people what they already know we believe it hardens thier thought about us and how loving our God is. We should be talking more of Jesus and his loving kindness and his willingness to forgive everyone of thier sins no matter how big or little they are. It's not about where you end up after life it's about having a choice (freewill) to accept the forgiveness and live a life or love, sharing, and caring or to live the life of not accepting and living with the guilt of your own stupid mistakes. I am young and I know that when I'm older I'll look back and think why did I do some of those things. I won't regret them because I had a choice to do them or not to. It was and is my choice. But I know when I am older I won't fell guilty because of those mistakes and I won't let evil make me feel guilty because I know Jesus has forgiven me of them. Thats what God wants of us. He doesn't want people to go to hell he wants them in heaven with him but it's everyones choice. We as Christians need to tell people about Jesus thats all. God judges everyone so we don't know who will and who won't be in heaven and hell. I trust God with that because he knows everyones thoughts and hearts. I don't mean to give you a sermon but I don't want people to get the wrong idea that we Christians judge people and tell them they are going to hell because we don't know if they are or not. Keep up the faith and the strong fight. God Bless you and thanks for not taking this the wrong way.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[meek mike]

Great example KR1NXo1.

Rev. Michael T
Soldier for Christ

[mr chinnery]

"The existance of a paradox disprooves whatever notion it was formed for"

Using the same logic, God can't exist. God is paradoxical. End of story...

[hempheadjack]

no one will ever change my believes,,i met god when i was in ICU,,i met god when i wrecked my harly,,i just plain met god,,now with that said,i dont preach,,i just no god himself,,,it is just my believe to pray when i need a little support,,it helps me,,thats all that matters,,to each his own,,me,,god gives me hope,faith,healing,everything i need is with his help,i have this image of him standing over me many times when i almost died more than once,,,,i am not asking anyone to believe in god,i just no i do,,and i can meet him at anyone time,in my heart mind soul,,i have visions of him,,

[psychonaut]

You see...God is in a place not bound by anything we see everyday, hes not bound by time, sense or anything. So...where god is there is no such thing as lifting rocks. All the bible says about heaven is metaphorical. The gold streets are proboly a rest in the spitit

[Nullific]

Jesus??
What about the hundreds of other crucified messiahs that could walk on water and float in mid-air?

[hempheadjack]

Jesus??
What about the hundreds of other crucified messiahs that could walk on water and float in mid-air?
well,,then i can walk on water,part the red sea,and just plain do anything my mind wants to believe,,read my shirt,i believe,,i believe,i believe in my believes,,hempheadjack

[Captin]

As for the original question, yes, if god is real then he certainly can make a rock he cannot lift. If he can do anything i see no reason why he can't do something that just seems impossible, but then agian the question is really one of those questions with no right answer. I'm atheist anyway, so i guess it doesn't really matter