Rudy Giuliani vs. Hillary Clinton

[Psycho4Bud]

So far the polls have these two as our front runners. LOL........cast your vote!:D

Have a good one!:s4:

[Zimzum]

Between these two? I gotta pick Hillary. While I like Giuliani's views on pro-choice, gun control and his stance on crime.... Its his stance on crime that I would not vote for him. If you think marijuana users have it ruff now wait till he is president. Only GOP I could vote for at this time is Romney. Although I'm pissed he went pro life just to suck up the religious votes. Come to MA, we still got our abortion clinics. And McCain must have given every religious right a hard on when he said he was against Row vs Wade.

Sorry but the GOP is generally to religious driven for my liking. Dem's represent a much wider range of people that sometimes you can find a good one out there. I'm still hoping for a Clintion/Clinton ticket.

[thcbongman]

Yeah.......great choices. :rolleyes:

I'm going with Skink on the independent ticket!

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

If we get another republican president, I will pack up and move, because I just won't be able to abide living in a country whose citizens have such poor short term memory.

[thecreator]

I hate Hilary Clinton but Rudy Giuliani is notorious for his hatred of minorities and impoverished people. Raseing taxes in predominately poor areas so the city can scoop it up on the lo lo and reconstruction it for more industrial purposes and then sell it at astronomical prices. To the citizens though business will be moved in during the reconstruction of the aventine of course.:hippy:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I'm on the fence about gentrification. On the one hand, I hate seeing people pushed out of their neighborhoods. On the other, I'm the first irritating idiot browsing around in the trendy "quaint" shop that gets built.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

if skink had a chance we might be ok, but i'm afraid we're doomed to more of the same ol' same ol'.

[Skink]

If I am elected their will be a grow light in every home...

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Is it too late to change my vote?
I want Skink.

[Skink]

Is it too late to change my vote?
I want Skink.

Never to late...

[Breukelen advocaat]

I hate Hilary Clinton but Rudy Giuliani is notorious for his hatred of minorities and impoverished people. Raseing taxes in predominately poor areas so the city can scoop it up on the lo lo and reconstruction it for more industrial purposes and then sell it at astronomical prices. To the citizens though business will be moved in during the reconstruction of the aventine of course.:hippy:

Giuliani didn't do any worse for MJ users than any other mayor of NYC. I don't like everything about him either, but he's better than Hillary.

Rudy was not "notorious for his hatred of minorities and impoverished people". That type of race-baiting statement was typical of people like Al Sharpton.

He's moderate on many issues and, although he probably won't get nominated, this position can help demonstrate to Republicans that moderates can be popular and successful in their party.

[Bong30]

HIllary......NO way...


Obama and Hillary are going to sling so much mud they are going to be out...

then your Boy Al ( I use more energy than anyone) gore.....will sweep in with all his new Voters...and Bamm Gore on the ticket.

The average American will see through the dems Bullshit.....

Rudy has a chance, cause he is a Liberal under disguse as a conservative.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I can see Hillary slinging mud. But Obama? Is this a pattern of his?

[Bong30]

I can see Hillary slinging mud. But Obama? Is this a pattern of his?

I think when the going gets tough..... He will sling and sling, but it will be a leaking not a real slinging...a leaking slinging.....LOL;)


Billion

you want

former presidents

bush
bush
clinton
clinton
bush
bush
clinton????? how about a change for once in like forever?????

[medicinal]

Hey Bong, Only one Bush the first. I don't like Hillary, to political. She goes with the trend. I like Obama and Edwards, either way pres or vice pres.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Leaking slinging. Sounds like something that happens from drinking cheap beer. I'll keep an eye on Obama. You know I don't want you to be right.;)

[Psycho4Bud]

Hillary for 08!

:eek: Hillary + PMS = Nuclear Fallout!!

Have a good one!:s4:

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

:eek: Hillary + PMS = Nuclear Fallout!!

Have a good one!:s4:
If she was that susceptible to PMS, Bill would no longer own a PeNiS.

[Psycho4Bud]

If she was that susceptible to PMS, Bill would no longer own a PeNiS.


:S2: GOOD POINT!!

Have a good one!:s4:

[pisshead]

hmmm...establishment candidate A (9/11 insider and truth hider)...or establishment candidate B (wife of war criminal and mega drug dealer)...

excellent choices...

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Well Pisshead, now that you put it that way.
The Dealer it is!

[crashtestway]

i wrote a email to norml.org hope this helps

What if any of they people that have that there hat in to this crazy race are pro-marijuana?? if it is to early thats fine. I want to get involved . Any help would be great? Thank you for your time.

jay links

Hello Jay,

Thanks for your email. Currently, the only two presidential candidates who support marijuana are US Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) and US Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-OH).

However, neither candidate is expected to stay in the race too long as both have little or no chance of getting their partiesâ?? nomination.

Regards!!


Jonah
NORML Foundation intern


looking on moving out of the us of a thats sad but i just can't take this any more dude where my country???

[Bong30]

Let me tell you under sharia law we wont be smoking weed.....


If the cut your head off for being an Infidel... you wont be able to smoke pot

there is bigger issues than weed....( coming from a daily 21 year smoker)

[Bong30]

You don't really want change. ;)

I do want change you dont know shit about me Bill.......


I want the borders Closed.....NOW

I want the war to be over too......( lets send Like 500k troops into the scene)

I want a Regular GUy American out for the regular person, and let me tell you hillary is a Dumb Liberal Elite idot that has got nothing good....for the regular person......

She bought....NY Please......

Hillary special.....LOL

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Hillary, hands down.

That is a president I'd be proud to serve under.

that's a little too kinky even for me.

[birdgirl73]

As David Letterman pointed out while pondering these two candidates, "On the one hand you have a wealthy New Yorker with a history of marital problems, and on the other hand you have a wealthy New Yorker with, ah, a history of marital problems." . . .

[FreeVenice]

I got to go for Rudy, I have my reasons. How was he part of a cover up? Alot of people fell in love with him in NY, I didn't hear to many thing positive about Hill.

Just remember, just cause you are voting for her doesn't mean Bill is going to be Prez. again. . .

[slipknotpsycho]

:eek: Hillary + PMS + 2 glasses of red wine = Nuclear Fallout!!

Have a good one!:s4:

i fixed the equasion for you...

what happened to obama anyways?

[Breukelen advocaat]

Obama ancestors reportedly owned slaves

WASHINGTON A genealogical researcher says presidential hopeful Barack Obama had white ancestors who owned slaves.

William Reitwiesner, in what he calls a first draft into Obama's roots, says he found the information in 1850 Census records from Kentucky. Obama's father was from Kenya and his mother was a white woman from Kansas.

Reitwiesner says one of Obama's great-great-great-great grandfathers owned a 15-year-old girl and a 25-year-old man.

Reitwiesner says the same records show one of Obama's great-great-great-great-great grandmothers owned a 60-year-old man and a 58-year-old woman.

An Obama spokesman notes that while a relative owned slaves, "another fought for the Union in the Civil War."

Reitwiesner says he also found that two other presidential candidates -- Republican John McCain and Democrat John Edwards -- were descendants of slave owners.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.
Obama ancestors reportedly owned slaves (http://www.wstm.com/Global/story.asp?S=6171270&nav=menu133_3)

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

That's hardly surprising. Half of my family owned the other half. I'd bet dollars to (gluten free!) doughnuts that the slaves Obama's forbears owned were yet another branch of the family tree.

The majority of my family is from the South. History may not be pretty, but it is what it is.

And in the case of a Republican pres, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[FreeVenice]

We know that Obama is not African-American right?

[FreeVenice]

The fact that his people are ling to win votes.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

after thinking about the three choices here i've decided that the only logical thing is to throw my hat in the ring. i'm sure that the republican and democratic nominees will find their true callings in the private sector, i think burger king is hiring, and skink's duties here as moderator would have precluded him from fulfilling the duties of the office anyway. though i don't find the prospect enjoyable, i feel it is my duty to take over the reins of power and lead this country into the 17th century.

the platform i will be running on is very simple, i advocate the dissolution of the united states as a single entity. my first act as your president will be to disband the federal government and move the capitol to hawaii. my new title will be general superintendent and the country will be divided into half a dozen regional zones. though the superintendent's power will be supreme, the ruling bodies of each zone will be responsible for maintaining order among the numerous city-states within its control. there will be no restrictions on economic systems or forms of government within these zones, however any disagreements will be dealt with by the superintendent swiftly and harshly. our new motto will be "we will have world peace, if it's the last thing we do".

our international policy will be simplified as well. i will immediately recall all of our troops from across the globe. all nations of the world will be given 72 hours to clear up their petty squabbles and begin treating their citizens and neighbors with the respect that is their due. once the alloted grace period has expired any nation or region that has not complied will be sporadically nuked until they agree to align themselves with this new vision of the future. yes, innocent lives may be lost, but our new philosophy of "world peace at any cost" will surely lead us into a bright and shining new future. after annexing mexico to use as the world's new prison and toxic waste dump, america will take its rightful place as the true leader in this new era of global peace and prosperity.

:Tomcat: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :apachecopter:

for those of you concerned with the future of marijuana legalization, remember that the superintendent will resolve all disagreements.

[dusto2k3]

Skink, with 50% of the votes!!!

[Psycho4Bud]

what happened to obama anyways?

According to recent polls these two are the front runners.....Skink was a throw.....LMAO, he's kickin' some political ass though!!

DA SKINK!:D

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[birdgirl73]

You have my vote, DelusionsofNorm. You had it before you threw your hat in, actually!

[delusionsofNORMALity]

You have my vote, DelusionsofNorm. You had it before you threw your hat in, actually!

i should add that after i am elected anyone who can prove that they voted for me will receive 25 lbs. of premium grade buds. all others will be sent to labor in the weed fields. the delusional one will be firm but fair.

[birdgirl73]

I like that plan a lot. Sorta like "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage," only much more cannabis-friendly. That'd be an investment in your constituents' future for sure. And the ones who're dumb enough to get caught would lose out on the money-making/investment/enjoyment potential, which is as it should be.

I now plan to vote early and often for you, to campaign for you, and to encourage others to do the same. You're definitely my kind of candidate.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I like that plan a lot. Sorta like "A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage," only much more cannabis-friendly.
A pro-Marijuana candidate (or comedian, activist, etc., I can't recall), in the 1970â??s, said that he'd provide, "Pot in every chicken!".

[delusionsofNORMALity]

how do you like my new campaign slogan?

two chickens in every car and pot in every garage.

[iPot]

in the name of anarchy i spoil my vote

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

We know that Obama is not African-American right?
Last time I checked, Hawaii was part of the union. ;) Obama was born in Honolulu. His father is from Kenya, and his mother is from Kansas. They met while attending school in Hawaii.

[birdgirl73]

how do you like my new campaign slogan?

two chickens in every car and pot in every garage.
I like that very much indeed!

I also like Breuk's reference to the 70s comedian! Was that George Carlin?

[Breukelen advocaat]

I like that very much indeed!

I also like Breuk's reference to the 70s comedian! Was that George Carlin?

I have no recollection who said it - could have been anybody from a political radical Yippie such as Abbie Hoffman, to a humorist like Paul Krassner (also associated with the Yippies, though a milder person). I don't think it was Carlin, though. Maybe I made it up, and forgot!

[FreeVenice]

whats a Yippie? is it pernounced (yu-pi)?

[FreeVenice]

Last time I checked, Hawaii was part of the union. ;) Obama was born in Honolulu. His father is from Kenya, and his mother is from Kansas. They met while attending school in Hawaii.

;) Does that make me wrong? Kenya-American?:wtf: I guess I was miss lead. . .

[birdgirl73]

whats a Yippie? is it pernounced (yu-pi)?
A Yippie was one of these folks:
Youth International Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yippies)

Definitely not the same thing as a yuppie (young urban professional).

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

;) Does that make me wrong? Kenya-American?:wtf: I guess I was miss lead. . .
I figure since he was born and raised on US soil, to an American mother and an African father, and he's a US born citizen, he is more truly deserving of the title "African American" than those of us whose last truly African ancestor first set foot here 400 years ago.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I figure since he was born and raised on US soil, to an American mother and an African father, and he's a US born citizen, he is more truly deserving of the title "African American" than those of us whose last truly African ancestor first set foot here 400 years ago.
What Obama isn't: black like me
by Stanley Crouch

If Barack Obama makes it all the way to becoming the Democratic nominee for President in 2008, a feat he says he may attempt, a much more complex understanding of the difference between color and ethnic identity will be upon us for the very first time.

Back in 2004, Alan Keyes made this point quite often. Keyes was the black Republican carpetbagger chosen by the elephants to run against Obama for the U.S. Senate seat from Illinois. The choice of Keyes was either a Republican version of affirmative action or an example of just how dumb the party believes black voters to be, since it was obvious that Keyes came from the Southeast, not the Midwest.

That race was never much of a contest, but one fascinating subplot was how Keyes was unable to draw a meaningful distinction between himself as a black American and Obama as an African-American. After all, Obama's mother is of white U.S. stock. His father is a black Kenyan. Other than color, Obama did not - does not - share a heritage with the majority of black Americans, who are descendants of plantation slaves.

Of course, the idea that one would be a better or a worse representative of black Americans depending upon his or her culture or ethnic group is clearly absurd. Even slavery itself initially came under fire from white Christians - the first of whom to separate themselves from the institution were Quakers. The majority of the Union troops were white, and so were those who have brought about the most important civil rights legislation.

Why then do we still have such a simple-minded conception of black and white - and how does it color the way we see Obama? The naive ideas coming out of Pan-Africanism are at the root of the confusion. When Pan-African ideas began to take shape in the 19th century, all black people, regardless of where in the world they lived, suffered and shared a common body of injustices. Europe, after all, had colonized much of the black world, and the United States had enslaved people of African descent for nearly 250 years.

Suffice it to say: This is no longer the case.

So when black Americans refer to Obama as "one of us," I do not know what they are talking about. In his new book, "The Audacity of Hope," Obama makes it clear that, while he has experienced some light versions of typical racial stereotypes, he cannot claim those problems as his own - nor has he lived the life of a black American.

Will this matter in the end? Probably not. Obama is being greeted with the same kind of public affection that Colin Powell had when he seemed ready to knock Bill Clinton out of the Oval Office. For many reasons, most of them personal, Powell did not become the first black American to be a serious presidential contender.

I doubt Obama will share Powell's fate, but if he throws his hat in the ring, he will have to run as the son of a white woman and an African immigrant. If we then end up with him as our first black President, he will have come into the White House through a side door - which might, at this point, be the only one that's open.

Originally published on November 2, 2006 - Stanley Crouch
New York Daily News - Ideas & Opinions - Stanley Crouch: What Obama isn't: black like me (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ideas_opinions/story/467300p-393261c.html)
Stanley Crouch is a columnist, novelist, essayist, critic and television commentator. He has served since 1987 as an artistic consultant at Lincoln Center and is a co-founder of the department known as Jazz at Lincoln Center. In 1993, he received both the Jean Stein Award from the American Academy of Arts and Letters and a MacArthur Foundation grant. He is now working on a biography of Charlie Parker.

[FreeVenice]

I just don't want his skin color to be the only reason he's there. . .

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I just don't want his skin color to be the only reason he's there. . .
And I don't want it to be the only reason he's not.

I guess what it all comes down to is: What does middle (read: predominantly white male) America find more threatening in the White House; a n*^^*$, or a woman. One or the other is bound to happen eventually. Those folks who find this a driving concern should just be thankful it's not Oprah who's running, because they'd find themselves with both in the same enormously popular candidate.

And Breukelen Advocaat: American Blacks have a loooong history of discriminating against each other based on skin tone. This goes back to slavery, when the "lightskinned" slaves were often chosen to be house servants, where they "enjoyed" (tongue firmly in cheek) a higher standard of living compared to their brown and black skinned brethren who were largely field workers. Those blacks of lighter hue were seen to be sellouts, asskissers, etc., in the eyes of other blacks. Conversely, blacks of lighter hue bought into the notion of superiority by virtue of their mixed ancestry, and in turn discriminated against darker blacks. It's a tangled mess, perpetuated by slave owners in order to increase their control and property holdings. I recommend the book Who Is Black? One Nation's Definition (http://www.psupress.psu.edu/books/titles/0-271-02172-1.html), by F. James Davis for further exploration of this phenomenon.

[Breukelen advocaat]

And I don't want it to be the only reason he's not.

I guess what it all comes down to is: What does middle (read: predominantly white male) America find more threatening in the White House; a n*^^*$, or a woman. One or the other is bound to happen eventually. Those folks who find this a driving concern should just be thankful it's not Oprah who's running, because they'd find themselves with both in the same enormously popular candidate.

And Breukelen Advocaat: American Blacks have a loooong history of discriminating against each other based on skin tone. This goes back to slavery, when the "lightskinned" slaves were often chosen to be house servants, where they "enjoyed" (tongue firmly in cheek) a higher standard of living compared to their brown and black skinned brethren who were largely field workers. Those blacks of lighter hue were seen to be sellouts, asskissers, etc., in the eyes of other blacks. Conversely, blacks of lighter hue bought into the notion of superiority by virtue of their mixed ancestry, and in turn discriminated against darker blacks. It's a tangled mess, perpetuated by slave owners in order to increase their control and property holdings. I recommend the book Who Is Black? One Nation's Definition (http://www.psupress.psu.edu/books/titles/0-271-02172-1.html), by F. James Davis for further exploration of this phenomenon.
None of this race stuff is news to me. Obama does not have the same background as those who are descendents of plantation slaves. He doesn't even have a background similar to most whites - but no American president ever did. Another privileged little punk with a wife that's on the Board of several corporations.

Basically, it's more of the same bullshit.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Another privileged little punk with a wife that's on the Board of several corporations.

And that is the real problem. Making it about race just muddies the waters.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

And that is the real problem. Making it about race just muddies the waters.

but that's what american politics is all about. officials are elected based on appearance and how well they can dodge the mudslingers. the issues just get in the way.;)

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Damned issues.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

Damned issues.

yeah. if it wasn't for the damn issues we could have gone ahead and elected paris hilton like we wanted to.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

That would have been so hawt.

[Skink]

if elected every corn farmer in the sun belt will get free subsidized cannabis seeds...

[Dutch Pimp]

if elected every corn farmer in the sun belt will get free subsidized cannabis seeds...

....that would be a lock...in Tennessee...we can't grow corn....

[rebgirl420]

um well Hilary is a crazy liberal, Giuliana is a liberal in disguise, I say neither are fit to be ANYTHING let alone president. I like a good ol' Libertarian party BUT since the chances of that happening are like, 1,000,000,000,000 to 1 I suppose i'll vote for whoever is republican.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Can somebody please please please explain to me how one can be both Republican and pro-cannabis? Reassure me that there are indeed pro-cannabis Republicans on Capitol Hill. Do something to convince me that your very political ideals are not in direct contradiction to your personal practices.

Ready? GO!

[rebgirl420]

Well for me its 2 main things

1- I know republicans are mostly all war on drugs but since i dont have a problem getting it now anyway I dont see it as a proble, more of a pain in the ass. And I personally would rather put that issue on the back burner for now until its realistic. Plus I think the right for me has other more important issues up front now that im more afraid of losing. Like gun rights for example.

2- Im actually libertarian but since they have no chance of getting a major public office (only smaller ones which I vote for them for) I pick a lesser of two evils thing actually. yeah i hate republicans BUT I hate liberals alot more.

[twitch]

if skink had a chance we might be ok, but i'm afraid we're doomed to more of the same ol' same ol'.

i am with him...

[Zimzum]

Well for me its 2 main things

2- Im actually libertarian but since they have no chance of getting a major public office (only smaller ones which I vote for them for) I pick a lesser of two evils thing actually. yeah i hate republicans BUT I hate liberals alot more.

And that is why independent parties will never be president. Still vote for them. Even if its a long shot, it still gets the message out. We can't grow out of this 2 party system until we take that leap of faith. Keep voting Republican or Democrat and there will never be a change.

I like the reform party (http://www.reformparty.org/). We need another Ross Perot to run.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

You are more afraid of losing gun rights than going to jail for smoking, or losing rights to your own uterus? Pardon me, but weren't you a woman before you were a gun owner? Are you pro-cannabis only insofar as it affects you personally? Doesn't it bother you that people with legitimate medical needs are considered criminals by the federal government?

I think I should move this to a new thread, so the Rudy v. Hill v. Skink contest can continue unobstructed.;)

[Dutch Pimp]

Well for me its 2 main things

1- I know republicans are mostly all war on drugs but since i dont have a problem getting it now anyway I dont see it as a proble, more of a pain in the ass. And I personally would rather put that issue on the back burner for now until its realistic. Plus I think the right for me has other more important issues up front now that im more afraid of losing. Like gun rights for example.

2- Im actually libertarian but since they have no chance of getting a major public office (only smaller ones which I vote for them for) I pick a lesser of two evils thing actually. yeah i hate republicans BUT I hate liberals alot more.

....I'm gonna need someone else ...to explain this to me....??...

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

I'd like to also point out that a well regulated militia bears little if any resemblance to Cooter with his shotgun on his porchcouch, or to Dashawn with his 9 tucked into his baggy ass pants.

And before you lose your cookies, I have 3 guns. I have a Ruger 9, a .22 rifle, and a 12 gauge. I really enjoy shooting, and practice responsible gun ownership. I've owned guns a good part of my adult life. I have never feared losing my guns. My state actually passed a concealed carry law 3 years ago.

[rebgirl420]

wow this is insane I kn ew I shouldnt have brought up politics in a place like this haha

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

LOL! psst^^^^looky up there. Politics Forum.;)

Rebgirl, I'm glad that at your age you're paying any attention to politics. I don't recall exactly, but I don't think I was very involved. I voted when I turned 18, but I don't think I really examined issues that closely.

You said you hated liberals. That's a really strong sentiment. So I'm just asking you to defend your position. However, this is a threadjack, so I will be considerate enough to move it to another thread. If you'd like to participate, I'd be happy to listen.:)

[rebgirl420]

lemme hit that up tommorow green, im pretty high and I dont think I can give a good argument.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

np hon.:thumbsup:

[socialistpete]

What poll stated that Guiliani is the front runner for the rep. party. I've never heard that.

Hillary is my bitch though, socialized medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Breukelen advocaat]

What poll stated that Guiliani is the front runner for the rep. party. I've never heard that.

Hillary is my bitch though, socialized medicine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rudy Giuliani is currently leading as the Republican choice in most polls, including Newsweek, Time, Fox News, ABC News, etc.:

WH2008: Republicans (http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08rep.htm)

[Breukelen advocaat]

Giuliani Has No Real Chance With GOP Voters . . . or Does He?

By Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, March 4, 2007; A01



The 2008 presidential campaign is just weeks old, but already an article of faith within the Republican Party -- the belief that no politician who favors abortion rights and gay rights can win the GOP nomination -- is being challenged by the candidacy of former New York mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani.

The man who was named Time magazine's "Person of the Year" for his response to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks is now leading in a slew of national polls. He is testing whether cultural and religious conservatives in the GOP will support a candidate who offers strong leadership on security and terrorism rather than ideological purity on social issues.

"This is the first Republican presidential primary since Sept. 11," said Ed Gillespie, a former Republican National Committee chairman who is neutral in the nominating battle. "Rudy Giuliani is a candidate who can clearly test the proposition that a Republican who is more moderate on social issues can capture the nomination. He's testing it now."

Whit Ayres, a Georgia-based Republican pollster, said he has been struck by the number of conservatives he has encountered who disagree with Giuliani on abortion or gay rights but are still attracted to him as a possible Republican nominee. The issue is whether that appeal can survive a long campaign in which Giuliani's New York record, his position on issues, his three marriages and his complex business dealings will be subjected to withering scrutiny.

"It truly is the question in Republican presidential politics at the moment," Ayres said. "There are a lot of people with a more traditional view who think that his leading in the polls is just a mirage and that he has no real chance. I don't believe that. I think there's more to this than simply name ID. "

Many GOP strategists still question whether Giuliani can survive the scrutiny and develop a message that appeals to voters across the spectrum of Republican conservatism. Based on his speech Friday at the Conservative Political Action Conference in Washington, there are good reasons for doubt. Giuliani highlighted his record as a tax cutter, crime fighter and welfare reformer. But he offered little resembling a traditional conservative agenda for the future, other than saying the United States must remain on offense against terrorism. The speech won a polite but hardly enthusiastic response from the audience of activists.

Still, the former mayor's decision to show up at a conference that the other leading candidate for the nomination, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), skipped may earn some goodwill with an audience not predisposed to support him.

His strength in recent national polls and some state polls has already prompted many strategists, including some in rival camps, to reexamine their long-held assumptions about a party that is approaching not only its first nomination battle since the terrorist attacks but also the first since the 2006 midterm elections, which put Democrats back into power in Washington. With President Bush's approval ratings still low, Republicans are looking for a winner.

For many months, McCain has been seen as the closest thing there is to a front-runner in the Republican contest. But Giuliani has emerged not only as the popular choice for the GOP nomination but also as the Republican candidate who is currently most highly regarded by the American people -- Republicans, Democrats and independents alike.

The latest Washington Post-ABC News poll showed Giuliani leading McCain 44 percent to 21 percent, with former House speaker Newt Gingrich at 15 percent and former Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney at 4 percent. A month ago, Giuliani's lead was much narrower: 34 percent to 27 percent. Without Gingrich in the field, the most recent poll showed Giuliani's margin over McCain was 53 percent to 23 percent.

A veteran Republican strategist, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to candidly assess the situation, said he is among those who long believed that a Republican with Giuliani's profile would have no chance. He still believes the former mayor faces significant obstacles but said the odds of Giuliani winning the nomination are not as remote as they once seemed.

He gave three reasons: the absence of a strong, traditional conservative in the GOP field; continuing antipathy among many social and religious conservatives toward McCain; and the prospect of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) becoming the next president.

Giuliani "looks like he can beat Hillary, make the party competitive again in the Northeast, competitive again in California and allow us to keep our strong electoral advantage in the South and Rocky Mountain states," the strategist said.

The former mayor's campaign team believes it has found a credible path to the nomination. Its foundation is a conclusion that while the overwhelming majority of Republicans differ with Giuliani on abortion, gay rights and gun control, a much smaller percentage of GOP primary voters -- perhaps no more than a quarter -- are single-issue voters who would never vote for him because of his views on those issues, a percentage borne out by the latest Post-ABC News poll.

Giuliani's advisers see that as a reason for optimism. They say those findings still leave a significant majority of the party beginning the campaign open to his candidacy, and they think the more he can emphasize his conservatism on issues such as taxes, welfare and crime, as well as his leadership on national security issues, the more voters are likely to back him.

"Rudy Giuliani and Republican voters are going to find a tremendous amount of common ground on a wide variety of issues important to Republican voters," said Mike DuHaime, Giuliani's campaign manager.

That raises the question of what it would say about the Republican Party if Giuliani were to become the nominee. Joe Gaylord, a GOP strategist close to Gingrich, said Giuliani's well-deserved celebrity appeal from his Sept. 11 response is a powerful attribute in the current environment. But he gave voice to something other Republican strategists are saying, which is that if Giuliani were to win the nomination, "this is a different Republican Party than I know."

Giuliani's advisers also challenge the assumption that he is doing well among Republicans because they remember his post-Sept. 11 job performance but know little about his positions on social issues. They believe that many Republicans are aware of both sides of the story and still find him an attractive candidate. Even some strategists in rival campaigns share that view, based on their own analyses.

Another factor may be working in Giuliani's favor. Many big states -- California, New Jersey and Florida among them -- could hold their primaries Feb. 5. If the former mayor survives early tests in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, his advisers argue, he will be positioned to do well in the larger states.

Social conservatives make up a significant portion of the GOP primary and caucus electorates in South Carolina and Iowa -- about two-thirds of South Carolina Republican voters oppose abortion, for example. The role of social conservatives is considered to be less decisive in New Hampshire, where low taxes are a bigger priority among GOP voters than abortion.

"I believe the compression [of the nomination] calendar helps us," DuHaime said.

All that assumes that Giuliani's early strength is not a mirage and that he finds a way to transcend his disagreements with conservatives. GOP strategists say he cannot change his positions, as Romney has done in some cases, but Giuliani's advisers believe he can reassure conservatives that he is not bent on a change in party orthodoxy.

On social issues, Giuliani has tried to shift the focus from his positions on abortion and gay rights to his argument that, as president, he would appoint federal judges akin to Supreme Court Justices Antonin Scalia and Samuel A. Alito Jr. His record in New York does not necessarily support that, according to an analysis recently published in the Politico, but a Giuliani adviser said the selection process there is quite different.

Giuliani's having been married three times could hamper his efforts to appeal to culturally conservative voters, although Gingrich faces the same issue if he enters the race. Similarly, Giuliani may have to answer for his past association with former New York police commissioner Bernard B. Kerik, who was forced to withdraw as Bush's nominee to be secretary of homeland security.

Other Republicans will be watching for signs that Giuliani's candidacy is built for the long haul. Right now, he trails McCain and Romney in building a national network of organizations. Giuliani has substantial fundraising appeal, but his first-quarter numbers, due at the end of this month, will be an indicator of whether he can tap his full potential. His skills as a campaigner will undergo continual examination.

"I think that people like him, and likeability is a big, big factor in presidential politics," a senior Republican strategist said. "Right now, I think his numbers reflect that. As you get closer to the Iowa caucuses and the New Hampshire primary, likeability may give way to vote-determinative issues, like abortion."

Said Ayres: "I don't think there's any question those issues will come into play. The question is, will they get traction?"

washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/03/AR2007030301022.html)

[latewood]

Can I just shoot myself now?

[Psycho4Bud]

Hillary is going to be the next president, get used to the idea.

LMAO!!! Here we got a stoner poll.......about as left wing as I think a poll can get and unless Skink runs, it looks like we stay with the Rep. party for another 4 years!

Have a good one!:s4:

[Psycho4Bud]

The Clash....Rudy Can't Fail

I know that my life make you nervous
But I tell you that I can't live in service
Like the doctor who was born for a purpose
Rudy can't fail

I went to the market
To realize my soul
Cause what I need
I just donâ??t have it
First they curse
Then they press me â??til I hurt
We say Rudy canâ??t fail

We hear them sayin'
Now first you must cure your temper
Then you find a job in the paper
You need someone for a savior
Oh Rudy can't fail

We reply
Now we get a rude and a reckless
We been seen lookin' cool an' a speckless
We been drinking booze for breakfast
So Rudy can't fail:thumbsup:

Have a good one!:s4:

[Bong30]

Hillary has NO chance......

[Purple Banana]

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos...

ABORTIONS FOR SOME, MINIATURE AMERICAN FLAGS FOR OTHERS!

[ooorbjoo]

are you fuckin serious? hilary clinton?

what a joke... her first act in office will probably be the banning of grand theft auto

[birdgirl73]

Well, it's a miracle and it probably won't ever happen again, but I agree with Bong on the no-chance point about Hillary, Billion. She may end up with the Democratic nomination, and she certainly is intending to run, but I don't think she has a chance to win. Far too much passionate dislike for her. Yet another reason we need Barack. He hasn't had a chance to engender that much gut-level dislike yet (except possibly from the Clinton campaign!).

[bud luv]

wow, more reps here than dems.

For the record, Hilary is twice the man Giuliani is.

[delusionsofNORMALity]

wow, more reps here than dems.

i don't know if i'd say there are more republicans here. i just think that clinton has shown herself to be the sort of political beast who will say anything to curry favor and we're getting very tired of that sort of shit. her stance on most everything seems to shift with the political breeze and she carries far to much of bill's baggage.

[Bong30]

Gore has a better chance than Hussien, or Hillary.

BTW...after America watches the Dems....do Nothing from 06-08.

They will be gone and we will get another Republican President.

We like haveing a split...(D) pres (R) congress or vise versa.....

WE will have a Republican President and a Democratic congress....

[delusionsofNORMALity]

We like having a split...(D) pres (R) congress or vise versa.....
that way they have an excuse for getting nothing done.

[Psycho4Bud]

Remember how Georgey boy was president not once, but twice? Hillary for 08.

After that dumbass, the country will automatically vote Hillary. I don't care if they go in there to vote otherwise, they'll see her name, and instantly they'll get flashbacks of George going to war with Iraq, butchering the English language, and doing c*caine. Hillary is going to be the next president! :D

I'm a sucker for side wagers. LOL........tell ya what Billionfold; If Hillary is elected I'll fly a Hillary/Dem. avatar of YOUR choice for a year.....if not, LOL, you fly an avatar of MY choice.

Have a good one!:s4:

[Breukelen advocaat]

I'm a sucker for side wagers. LOL........tell ya what Billionfold; If Hillary is elected I'll fly a Hillary/Dem. avatar of YOUR choice for a year.....if not, LOL, you fly an avatar of MY choice.

Have a good one!:s4:

I had a great-uncle who went by a nickname, and my father found out in the 1960's that his uncle's real name was McKinley. Our uncle's father probably lost an election bet when William Jennings Bryan, a Democrat, was defeated in the presidential election of 1900 by William McKinley, the Republican President.

I'm not going to suggest that you name your next child "Clinton", or "Hillary", though.

Eugene Debs made his first bid for president in 1900 as the candidate of the Social Democratic Party. I remember a kid I went to high school with that used to talk about, and quote, him - but with a few grains of salt. At the time of the VietNam war, Debs was a better role-model than the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society).

â??While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not freeâ?�
Eugene Debs

[Bong30]

He is scared P4B......

Like a girly MAN...... LOL

he talks tough, but when the going gets tough...he just helps the mexicans at the sawmill insted of helping americans......

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Bong, shame on you. I distinctly recall BF saying that the Mexicans at the sawmill helped HIM, gratis.

[Bong30]

Bong, shame on you. I distinctly recall BF saying that the Mexicans at the sawmill helped HIM, gratis.

You are right....they helped him. But he just want to give them room and Board......


I welcome them. I don't see America as just our country. I say it is welcome to all that want to live in it. As long as they aren't criminals, I'll even offer to let them stay at my house. I live next to a saw mill, so I'm up to my knees in Mexicans. Some of them don't even speak English. They're friendly though, we poured concrete one day and one of them helped us for free.


BF be part of the solution not part of the problem....march your ass over to the sawmill and tell them to clean up the shit or you are calling ICE.

Tell the Boss, not the workers......

if you cant get a ticket to ride...you go home....(self Deportation)

[Bong30]

Americans wont help him cause he hates Americans.....

[Purple Banana]

I really liked Bill. I don't like Hillary. I think she stole his nutsack, enlarged it, and put it on her face. The damn feminists will bust a nut (or ovary) if Hillary wins; I don't think I can face that.

I'm really wishing for Barack to win. I don't give a fuck if he's:
Mixed race
His ancestors owned slaves
He's a democrat- with conservative values
He doesn't have the most experience

I think he's the most balanced (left vs right) out of all of the candidates. Although I'm happy to see we don't have any RAVING lunatics for the Reps, or many bleeding hearts for the Dems. Just a few assholes this time :thumbsup:

[PatrickHenry]

w/out obama i voted for skink. the question is, does skink inhale? this may effect my future votes.

[Psycho4Bud]

Your next President and V.P.!:S2:
YouTube - The 1/2 Hour News Hour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F49e64yq8lI&mode=related&search=)

Have a good one!:s4:

[suhl]

I really liked Bill. I don't like Hillary. I think she stole his nutsack, enlarged it, and put it on her face. The damn feminists will bust a nut (or ovary) if Hillary wins; I don't think I can face that.

I'm really wishing for Barack to win. I don't give a fuck if he's:
Mixed race
His ancestors owned slaves
He's a democrat- with conservative values
He doesn't have the most experience

I think he's the most balanced (left vs right) out of all of the candidates. Although I'm happy to see we don't have any RAVING lunatics for the Reps, or many bleeding hearts for the Dems. Just a few assholes this time :thumbsup:

i agree with everything you said, particularly hilary clinton stealin bills nutsack and using for a face. except obama being balanced, he leans left on just about every issue i have heard him talk about, but even if he were leaning right, hed probably have my vote, because he appears to be an honest man and more human than robot, which is more than can be said for 95% of all presidential candidates

[Dave Byrd]

Obama's a nice guy and a fresh face, but I don't yet think he's ready to be president. Hillary is, but I don't believe she can win. It's a tough reality for a moderate Democrat to be faced with. I prefer Hillary over Guiliani, but if I had to vote for a Republican, he's the one I'd go for. I would have supported McCain before he aligned himself as opposing abortion. People in my profession know that procedure needs to be legal so it can be safe.

[pass the chicken]

um isn't Giuliani the guy who put all new yorks homeless on buses headed anywhere but new york? or is that some thing else?

[Breukelen advocaat]

um isn't Giuliani the guy who put all new yorks homeless on buses headed anywhere but new york? or is that some thing else?


That's the first time I ever heard that one! :yippee:

[Prunedale]

Your next President and V.P.!:S2:
YouTube - The 1/2 Hour News Hour (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F49e64yq8lI&mode=related&search=)

Have a good one!:s4:

Nice..lol

[oldsanclem]

Giuliani lower the high crime rate of N.Y.
Hillery and bubba , escaped the land fraud in Ak.
Giuliani got the job done in the moments of 911 reguardless of who or what did it.
Now Hillery let her husband screw around , that mabe a good thing. But she should run on the Freedom for a Piece party.
But do not for get , more people worred about president afairs more than the bombings which I belive was only 4 or 5.
The skunk party may win because a skunk is called a stinking pussy.
Vote once and often even if you not a citizen.

[Mrs. Greenjeans]

Huh?

Why are you bumping this most ancient of threads?

[Breukelen advocaat]

Rudy is doing well, but not great, in the latest polls:
WH2008: General (http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm)

[Psycho4Bud]

I'm removing the sticky on this one.....seems Skink is the prez with Rudy coming in second. The Clintons take another hit....LOL

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[mattks1]

i guess you guys didnt hear that the russians implanted a dirty bomb in hillary's.........................:jawdropper: vagina

[obxguy86]

Bloomberg for PREZ 08' :jointsmile:
Schwarzenegger for VICE Prez 08' :thumbsup:


"Marijuana legalization is inevitable" :rastasmoke:

[obxguy86]

Bloomberg-When asked whether he had ever smoked pot, he declared last year, "You bet I did. And I enjoyed it. "
Vote Bloomberg 08'...

..."Marijuana arrests rose from under 6,000 a year in New York City in the year before Giuliani became Mayor (1993) to over 62,000 arrests in 2001, the final year in his term-limited second administration. Giuliani was America's most rabid drug warrior and his views have not changed."
Say NO to Giuliani..


"Marijuana legalization is inevitable":rastasmoke:

[obxguy86]

...i dunno mixed feelings about him, best republican candidate though.


"Marijuana legalization is inevitable":rastasmoke:

[Markass]

giuliani is a fucking bastard...he's big in big pharm, so he'll never give medical marijuana patients any sort of chance...plus he's a crook and a liar...I don't want another one of those in the white house..

[mfqr]

Please, nobody vote for Hillary... she is such a liar. If she was telling the truth then I would vote for her too. She is a proven liar!

I trust Ron Paul the most, unless he's a really good liar like Hillary. But I tend to not think so, he has a solid history of over 20 years in his career supporting a constitutional, limited government.

Most of all these other candidates are either complete liars and will fuck the country up more, and keep messing with our constitution... or it will remain status quo. Oh wait, the status quo is fucking the country up more, and messing with our consititution...

Honestly, how I think it will go if Hillary gets elected (which I am pretty sure she will be, but I could be wrong) is for awhile she's going to keep the charade up, and do some ok things. Then after a little bit she's going to turn into a complete bitch and fuck shit up.