Prejudice: biolocial, or cultural?

[Skrappie]

I had a conversation with one of my professors today regarding prejudice and if such a thing has a biological or cultural basis. I would like to take my stance and put it on canna.com hopefully for beneficial and lively discussion.


I took the path of most resistance with this one and sided with prejudice having more of a biological basis, my logic resting on the fact that every human and most of the higher mammals display prejudice selection when the opportunity arises.

I attribute this to the way that a lot of the 'thinking animals' categorize information. Our brain organizes everything we see that has comparable value and stores it for survival in later situations where a decision needs to be made quickly. Most often these things are arbitrarily seen as either good or bad, but rarely equal.

a very lose but relate able example.


You go to your favorite diner, and your order the steak and eggs, The waiter politely asks if you would like to try an omelet, they are the special for today and would only cost you a dollar.
Although you are not in a rush, not very hungry, and have tired of steak, its been a long time since you last had an omelet (and never one at this location).
The situation you were in when you last had one, was not the best (since childhood, and maybe mom wasn't the best cook) so you tell him no, i do not like omelets.

He goes on to tell you that they are very good, no one ever complains about them, the reason why they have a special for them today is because they are so widely popular and if you don't like it, you can have it for free, and he'll get your steak ready just in case.

You think for a second, and then state once again, that you don't like omelets.

is this to be considered an example of prejudice?

The cultural part of prejudice, is disliking others that 'are the same as us' . We are a complex animal, and have taken every smaller biological issue and made it more complex.

Every animal has sex, we have the karma sultra

they have shelters we have sky rises

the need for dominance, inferior racial groups. (now everyone who looks like me can be on top too :) )

we compound already complex issues.


to me, prejudice is biological, it starts very deep. it starts at the basics of how we view our world and the funny part is: we need it. Without the categorization of information, without prejudice there would be no preferences, no likes or dislikes, no 'culture'.

I strongly believe prejudice is something that comes with the ability to think freely.

What do you think?

Sorry if i didn't express my ideas clearly, I have a habit of doing that.


prej·u·dice (prĕj'ə-dĭs) pronunciation
n.

1.
1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.

[Skrappie]

May i ask that anyone who reply's to this post please read it?
billionfold, is it respectful to take someones thread (thoughts, time and effort) and put your thoughts into it without reading it?
If you do not know what i am talking about, how can you properly reply?

Funny enough, you just practiced the second definition of prejudice.

A preconceived preference or idea.

[Skrappie]

Its not a serious subject for me,
I would just prefer a thread to die out with one proper reply then someone letting me know that they did not read it.

I don't need to know that you didn't read it, nor does anyone else. Its the internet equilivent of butting into a conversation, and then saying something completely off topic, and uninformed.

Also, to reply completely to your defense, i think you are the one practicing impatience, as you had to reply now instead of taking the time to write when you are less tired.

No offense taken, or dished out.

[higher4hockey]

"racism isnt born folks, its taught. i have a two year-old son, you know what he hates? naps. "
-dennis leary

[benagain]

The only real confusing bit about stuff like this is it all comes down to the definition. What meaning is right? I dunno but if it's this one:
2. A preconceived preference or idea.

Then it's gonna be biologial. Everything that uses logic is gonne have a prejuditial (sp??) opinion on a situion that seems familliar. Obviously we don't know the future, but we can get a good idea of what is most probable to happen based on what we allready know.

Then again, I have no idea. So don't listen to anything I say ;)

[Nochowderforyou]

I'm confused, so is this about ommlettes?

Nah, I'm kidding.

I think prejudice is something someone has to be taught. If it was natural, then wouldn't all of us have some sort of hate against a race? I know I don't, and if I did, it would be for a reason. Someone is either taught to hate a certain race or all races, or they go through something dramtic and traumatizing that was done by a certain race of people.

For example, my cousin almost got beat to death by some Native folks in the city he lives in, with bats and such. He was in the hospital for months and now suffers hearing loss in his left ear. Now, whenever he comes across someone of that nationality, his eyes fill with hatred for them. I know he maybe shallow minded and should think that not all Native's are like that, but it was something he went through that forever changed him.

In the beginning he was never like that.

[benagain]

If we're talking racial predjudice, then I'd agree that it's a cultural thing. I'm sure the 1st time a white guy met a black guy, they were thrown off and maybe a little confused about it, but I don't see one hating the other unless they were allready told that they were supposed to.

[benagain]

Wow. That go me thinking. How odd would it be to meet someone from another race, if you'd never seen or heard of one. That's gotta be an odd encounter.

[Psycho4Bud]

I would have to say more cultural than biological. Biological would imply that this is something we are born with like knowing a natural preditor. If you put small children into a room all they know is who they like to play with....the color isn't an issue until the ignorance of hate is taught/learned from outside influences.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Polymirize]

The cultural part of prejudice, is disliking others that 'are the same as us' . We are a complex animal, and have taken every smaller biological issue and made it more complex.

prej·u·dice (prĕj'ə-dĭs) pronunciation
n.

1.
1. An adverse judgment or opinion formed beforehand or without knowledge or examination of the facts.
2. A preconceived preference or idea.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.

I don't understand why you think prejudice involves disliking others that are the same as us? I would have thought it was more of just the opposite.

But I have to side firmly on cultural and social origins for prejudices. I guess you could make a very weak case for genetics playing a role, but even then its always a mixture of genetics and environment that constitute behavior.

Even with regard to your own example concerning omlettes, the subject remembers back to his own traumatic encounters with omlettes in his childhood. I don't see the biological bias, I see a learned bias because his mom was a bad cook. Could you flesh that out?

[Skrappie]

I agree with all of you, if we were talking about race issues, the reason i added the definition of prejudice is because i anticipated responses of this nature. My original idea was that prejudice is biological, (due to the way our brains automatically categorize similar stimulus; for better or worse)
racism is the cultural byproduct of prejudice. Race is just a noticeable difference. Even in societies where the race is homogeneous, there is always a noticeable attempt at ethnic superiority, (see china) or tribalism(see Africa). We as humans tend to 'need' to see a difference between things, and put it into order of better and worse, and will create sub categories to fit such a system if a noticeable difference arises.

Once again i'm not saying racial prejudices is biological, and the cultural aspect of racism was going to encompass another post, i should have added more on this, generally when people think of injustice/pre-judegment, they think of race.

If you are truly interested in the topic, re read my post (with the definition or prejudice include at the end) and then logically rebut, i hope the replies don't turn into a broken record on a subject that i did not even intend to touch.

thats why i said omelets and not people.

[Skrappie]

I don't understand why you think prejudice involves disliking others that are the same as us? I would have thought it was more of just the opposite.

But I have to side firmly on cultural and social origins for prejudices. I guess you could make a very weak case for genetics playing a role, but even then its always a mixture of genetics and environment that constitute behavior.

Even with regard to your own example concerning omlettes, the subject remembers back to his own traumatic encounters with omlettes in his childhood. I don't see the biological bias, I see a learned bias because his mom was a bad cook. Could you flesh that out?


I'm going to give you list answers, no disrepect, just in a rush

1. 'Same as' meaning humans. racial nad culutral (it even breaks down into sub culutres) have a cultural basis, i agree. But i must admit even though i try to make that argument sound logical, it was a typo, it is supposed to be 'different then us.'

Thats true, about the omlette situation, but the mans tramtic experince has nothing do with the situation now.

his mom was a bad cook
20 years ago

This diner has a reputation for good omlettes, and the man is in a situation where he has nothing to lose, but would rather pay more money to recive something he does not need (lack of hunger) but is used to.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.

I'm not saying my idea is right, after all, we will never really know, i just wanted some people on the other side of the fence to rebut my ideas in a logical manner.:thumbsup:

[Polymirize]

This diner has a reputation for good omlettes, and the man is in a situation where he has nothing to lose, but would rather pay more money to recive something he does not need (lack of hunger) but is used to.
2. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.

I'm not saying my idea is right, after all, we will never really know, i just wanted some people on the other side of the fence to rebut my ideas in a logical manner.:thumbsup:

But that's still socialization and learned behavior, with regards to what the man is used to.

And I'd like to disagree with a point you make that the man's earlier experiences have nothing to do with it. They have a great deal to do with it. They're the psychological material through which this man may very well approach omlettes for the rest of his life. You can't just throw out past experiences as irrelevent. This can't be a logical exercise because prejudices are inherently illogical. So the psychology must be pertinent.

I still don't see how you're plugging it into a biological bias...

[birdgirl73]

My impression has always been that prejudice is more cultural than biological, too. People somehow learn it from the exposures they get. It's not biologically inherent. Those attitudes can be passed along or taught in families and passed down from generation to generation, which some might argue is somehow biological, but that, too, is really cultural/environmental. The prejudice that results is learned behavior in the environment or culture of a family. The family itself just happens to be biologically connected.

Preferences are, to me, a different thing. My preference for scrambled eggs over fried eggs doesn't signal a prejudice against fried eggs. Just a preference for scrambled. In nature, animals often choose mates based on a preference for symmetry and will often ostracize asymmetrical animals from their flocks or herds. There's a biologically driven preference for symmetry, but the ostracization of asymmetrical animals isn't based on prejudice because, of course, those animals don't have a preconceived notion and aren't making an unreasonable judgment. They're acting on a different, no doubt evolutionarily driven level and indicating a preference that, to them, is imminently reasonable because symmetry in nature signals good genetic health.

[PatrickHenry]

My impression has always been that prejudice is more cultural than biological, too. People somehow learn it from the exposures they get. It's not biologically inherent. Those attitudes can be passed along or taught in families and passed down from generation to generation, which some might argue is somehow biological, but that, too, is really cultural/environmental. The prejudice that results is learned behavior in the environment or culture of a family. The family itself just happens to be biologically connected.

Preferences are, to me, a different thing. My preference for scrambled eggs over fried eggs doesn't signal a prejudice against fried eggs. Just a preference for scrambled. In nature, animals often choose mates based on a preference for symmetry and will often ostracize asymmetrical animals from their flocks or herds. There's a biologically driven preference for symmetry, but the ostracization of asymmetrical animals isn't based on prejudice because, of course, those animals don't have a preconceived notion and aren't making an unreasonable judgment. They're acting on a different, no doubt evolutionarily driven level and indicating a preference that, to them, is imminently reasonable because symmetry in nature signals good genetic health.

Good Post! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Skrappie]

There's a biologically driven preference for symmetry, but the ostracization of
asymmetrical animals isn't based on prejudice because, of course, those animals don't have a preconceived notion and aren't making an unreasonable judgment.

thanks bg, this is the type of response i was hoping for.

I too subscribe to the idea of prejudice being something that you learn, though i like to see thinking on both sides of the fence, and i was hoping this topic would bring about more people from various sides to a friendly debate, though ended up being one sided.

I guess i have to try harder.
This is by no means me saying that i wish people to stop talking about the topic, i encourage it. To be honest, i was expecting people to question animals ability to make reasonable judgments, which is the true meat of the conversation me and my professor held.

I love you guys, so i figured i should contribute almost as much as i read.
Toke on guys. Hopefully my next thread will offer more for varied responses!

[napolitana869]

I think its a conditioned response, as can be seen with twin studies. The reason we dont like asymmetrical animals is because of what I think is called the good gene theory, which means that we choose our mates based on who we think has the best genetics.

[Skink]

I hate post were I have to think...

[napolitana869]

what I forgot to say is that being asymmetrical is a sign of poor genes.

[suhl]

i have been told in two seperate classes that it is a learned behavior and that that much is proven. i havent seen the proof but i dont see either of these teachers lying so im going to go with learned

[InsomniaBomber420]

I beleive that it is both. I think that it is mainly taught dpending on the surroundings some one grows up in. But it is also natural to be questionable about someone elses differences(its human nature). Also traggic events can also take place causing the child to be very prejudice.(This is actualy what happens in American History X,because his dad is killed by a black man he is enfuriated and becomes racist, he even slanders blacks on the news and calls them the"N"word since we cant say it on this site) ne ways way off subject now so Ima shut up 4 a while(SO HIGH):wtf: :stoned: :hippy:

[Polymirize]

I too subscribe to the idea of prejudice being something that you learn, though i like to see thinking on both sides of the fence, and i was hoping this topic would bring about more people from various sides to a friendly debate, though ended up being one sided.


Is this really a debated subject though? I still don't think we've seen a good example of what a biologically based prejudice would be...

for the purposes of education and understanding... can anyone give a good one?

[Skrappie]

I still don't think we've seen a good example of what a biologically based prejudice would be...

the school of thought comes from the fact that we naturally dislike and disturst some things that preform the same function often for no reason. If its a slight difference your mind adjusts to put it in a catagory of better or worse. A few people would argue since everyone displays bias that it is a biological function, and dislike for 'other' people without any logical grounding is cultural, but stems from a biological function.

[peaceandlove420]

I will explain my hypthothesis the best I can. Prejudice is biological. You point out some very good key arguments about compounding already existing simlpler functions.


The human mind has the need to survive and contains basic needs. As to every animal on this planet.
Physically: The need to eat
The need to mate
The need to expell fece;s
Physcologically: To accel (at least for humans, we can't just not do anything, the mind must be moving towards a goal or an idea at somepoint)
To succeed, to attain a mate etc etc

When anything interferes with that there is a "primal response" so to speak that lies within everyone no matter how civilized and polished by society one may be.

Anyways, I do not want to bore you so here is my conclusion. Human kind has a predisposition or an inclination or susceptibility so to speak to be ruthless (for back of a better word) in order to survive. All humans are inherently evil, something we must account for and try to fix given are abilities for idea's and the relm of thought and reason.

In addition, to adress the cultural idea theory.

Culture influences or may direct prejudice. But there does lay a tiny miniscuel amount of "primal prejudice" I like to call it born into everyone. If to drift over into religion it would be like "original sin". Something that is there, to some extent in everyone, like evil, yet were expected and very well able to maintain and controll it individually and can eventually almost go away.

I am done. I apologize for the rant. That is my two cents on the subject. I hope that I provided some service.

Peace and love~

[Zimzum]

Back when I lived in NH and went to high school there we had a class called Humanities, no english or social studies. They were combined to create the class. Well anyways, one of our class projects were too debate this exact topic. Half the class had to read "Lord of the flies" other half read "Fahrenheit 451". IMO humans are born neutral and are influenced by culture.

[Skrappie]

Is this really a debated subject though? I still don't think we've seen a good example of what a biologically based prejudice would be...


Biological Bases of Prejudice
Heiner Flohr

Our knowledge of the causes of social prejudice is insuflicient; conventional sociological and psychological approaches should be com plemented by a search for biological causes. Evolutionary theory can explain why there is a need for prejudices. The formation of prejudices is supported by some characteristics of our cognitive apparatus. Apart from that, behavioural tendencies such as group orientation and xenophobia, as well as the biologically rooted rejection of outsiders, contribute to the formation of prejudices. Prejudices are hard to fight because of their biological basis, but insight into this element may indicate effective countermeasures.

Its a highly debated Topic. at least i think.

[napolitana869]

Back when I lived in NH and went to high school there we had a class called Humanities, no english or social studies. They were combined to create the class. Well anyways, one of our class projects were too debate this exact topic. Half the class had to read "Lord of the flies" other half read "Fahrenheit 451". IMO humans are born neutral and are influenced by culture.

both of those books are really good

[Polymirize]

the school of thought comes from the fact that we naturally dislike and disturst some things that preform the same function often for no reason. If its a slight difference your mind adjusts to put it in a catagory of better or worse. A few people would argue since everyone displays bias that it is a biological function, and dislike for 'other' people without any logical grounding is cultural, but stems from a biological function.

hmmmm, its just seems overly reductive. It seems to be saying that individual psychological processes are reducible to biological processes.

If we were talking about prejudice between things like strawberry jam vs grape jam, I might agree with you. Maybe my particular body just happens to get more out of strawberry. But then it's not a prejudice anymore, it's actually biologically justified.
On a larger scale, discussing prejudices about things I don't use (?) such as people I don't think this would hold.
Plus, creation of in-groups and out-groups is a human universal. It might explain why we have tendencies to develop prejudices, but it never justifies any particular one. Rather it would just point out that we should always be skeptical of creating groups.

Have you heard at all of E.O. Wilson? or Sociobiology?