longtime dirt farmer exploring hydro options

[justaseed]

i know my way around the grow room but have always done. soil or soilless grows. i am looking at my options for going hydro. the spaces available are 2ftdeep x 4ft long by 6ft high for veg lit by 8 4ft agrosun full spectrum t12's and for bloom a 4'7" x 4"7" x 5'6"tall lit by 1.4kw hps. i am thinking of maybe a simple dwc tub in the small chamber for clones and a very short veg. for the flower room i am thinking about something like the aeroflo2 36site or some sort of nft system either diy or a storebought system. what are the thoughts of some of you experienced hydro growers for a hydro grow with a veg space and a bloom space that are seperate?

[Opie Yutts]

Greetings. Long time no talk.

Good to talk to you again. Sounds like a great area and set up so far. Of course I'm all for seperate veg and bloom areas. I too am a fan of DWC and NFT. I've tried both and they both have their advantages. NFT is a great producer. Any time you can have the roots in air for most of the time, well let's just say that's a good thing. NFT when done properly can produce amazing yields. The bad thing is NFT is a pain in the ass to get set up and maintain correctly. It also can be very expensive, especially if you go store-bought. If you like projects, it may be fun for you to set up a DIY NFT of your own. This has many advantages other than the fun part. For one, you can make it exactly how you want it to fit exactly your space.

DWC produces fantastic yields for the amount of effort and expense you must put in. Almost nothing compared to NFT. Again, you could build this your self and make it exactly how you want it for $60, or spend about $80 and get an Emily's Garden type set up. You could even do what I'm working on. A sort of combination NFT, Drip, DWC technique. I want NFT, but we have a lot of power failures here, sometimes for more than a day at a time. I fear my plants might die if I was away at the beach or something and the power went out. That's why I want a few of the roots in nutrients at all times.

One good thing about hydro is I think it's much easier to control the nutrients. Of course the yield is better. You're less likely to have devistating pests like spider mites, the yield is better, and of course the yield is better.

Personally, I like projects, and the amount of money they save. The only bad part is they take time, one of my most precious things. Right now both my veg and bloom areas are tore apart for a make-over. My grow area will have some pretty interesting stuff in it when finished. If Im still around when it's finished I'll post some pictures and stuff.

Nice talking to you again. Good luck and keep us posted.

PS. Perhaps a long time farmer like you could give me some advice on a problem I posted in Plant Problems. No one else seems interested in commenting.

[justaseed]

good to see you again to opie! i will be making a trip to the new hydro store in the area to have a long conversation with the owner about my options. from what you posted i seem to be on the right track with my ideas so far. what are your thoughts about the areoflo or other areo set-ups. i personally like diy stuff but as with you time is my most limiting factor as i have 2 young children and a small business to take care of. i am toying with making a nft table with vynl gutters from home depot but i'm not sure if the have covers or how i will even secure the plants over the gutter. this whole hydro upgrade idea of mine has only been seriously thought about for a week now so i have plenty of research to do before i start to make anything ayway. i gotta go to bed now but i will check out you thread in the plant problems forum to see if i can help in any way. thanks for your reply opie.

[Opie Yutts]

Good choice on NFT. I see you are still torn between DIY and store-bought. I am not familiar with name brand areo settups, but from what I hear people saying, they do a very good job. Don't know what brand to recommend. You already know this, but the best thing to do is search the forums. If money is not an issue, especially since you have greater responsibilities, I would probably let the guy in the store sell me something. It doesen't matter what, as long as you can time the feeding for something like 2 minutes on and 10 off (you'll have to experiement). You want the roots in air as much as possible with out causing harm to the plants. Consider ease of operation, construction and craftsmanship, refill, cleaning, warrantee, and customer service. You are paying extra at a store to have someone help you before and after the sale. If the guy is a prick, consider other stores. I'm a big fan of expanded clay pellets for the medium. I really don't like rockwool, although some love it. I'm not the only one who says it holds too much moisture. I've wanted to experiment a little with coconut too.

If you're going to make it, it doesn't sound too hard to make a table like you mentioned. I would find as many free pictures and plans as you can, and adapt them to what fits your needs. Another great idea is to ask the store guy as many questions as you need to, until you fully understand how to build one yourself. Not quite fair, but that's their job and they expect it to happen sometimes.

Keep us posted.

[justaseed]

oh, i spend enough at the new hydro shop that the owner already knows me by name (not my real name of course) so he should be happy to answer my questions. one of my concerns was havind a set-up for veg and a set-up for bloom that i could easily move the plants from one to the other. i have heard that with some hydro set-ups once the plant is in the system it must remain for its entire life. as i said hydro is very new to me. i have only just started reading threads in this hydro forum. my only experience with hydro was my diy bubble cloner and a 1time single plant dwc scrog which did pretty well for me, i got 4oz in a 2ft x 2ft x 2.5ft space with 350watts of cfl's, not 1gm/watt by a long shot but i have never been able to achieve that with cfl's anyway, although 1gm/ watt was childs play with my 150hps and my 400hps.

[Opie Yutts]

To be able to move plants from veg to bloom you just have to make sure of 3 things:
1) The roots do not get tangled with each other or equipment while they are growing. Many NFT settups do not take this into consideration, since the designer made the thing to use throughout the entire life cycle. Here's where one advantage of DIY comes in.
2) The openings that the net pot sets in are the same size for veg and bloom.
3) Allow a little more room for the roots to grow in the bloom area, since they will of course grow bigger than in the veg area.

My NFT rebuild includes seperate secondary reseviours for each plant. One advantage of this is there is no way roots can become entangled. Occasionally I'll loose a few root strands on some fittings in the chamber when I pull the plant out, but it's no biggie. The plants don't seem to object too much.

[justaseed]

is it possible for you to post pics of your nft set-up?

[Opie Yutts]

I would be emberassed to show it right now. It is in a shambles - cords, pots, timers, weed trimmings, dead weed, ballasts, etc., are flung everywhere. I need to get some will power and make progress on this. When I come home from work I am too tired to do anything. I look forward to the weekend so I can get stuff done, but when the weekend comes I don't want to do anything, but play video games, sleep and watch TV.

What, me lazy? Well, maybe, but I do get up at 4:30 every morning and work 10 or 11 hours, either 5 or 6 days per week. I hate it, even though the job itself is somewhat interesting and occasionally challanging.

Anyway, I hope I can post pictures of the finished project soon. Just don't hold your breath.

[latewood]

Would you care for some sage advice? Try not to get all carried away at 1st with Hydro until you realize what you are getting into. ;)
You will get more out of fewer plants. Hydro plants out grow soil plants so fast, that you need to rethink the amount of flowered plants you can fit.
I read you plan a very short veg time, that is good. you might be able to flower 16 little clones in there. you need to let them breath, and they will yield more.

the way I grow. I would only be able to grow 5-6 max in there and that would be crammed in...

I apologize to all above, I didn't have time to read whole thread.

[latewood]

I would be emberassed to show it right now. It is in a shambles - cords, pots, timers, weed trimmings, dead weed, ballasts, etc., are flung everywhere. I need to get some will power and make progress on this. When I come home from work I am too tired to do anything. I look forward to the weekend so I can get stuff done, but when the weekend comes I don't want to do anything, but play video games, sleep and watch TV.

What, me lazy? Well, maybe, but I do get up at 4:30 every morning and work 10 or 11 hours, either 5 or 6 days per week. I hate it, even though the job itself is somewhat interesting and occasionally challanging.

Anyway, I hope I can post pictures of the finished project soon. Just don't hold your breath.Have you been sneaking in my growroom...lol
whenever I get contracts and have to go off, I get the same way...feel for ya' Opie :smokin:

[divestoned]

bucket in a bucket is a great set up.i have these spaced a lil far becouse i can...but they can also be packed in.2 gallon buckets.if i had it to do over...i'd get black buckets.makes it very easy to tranfer plants from one room to the next.and is available thru NGW (national garden wholsale catalog)as a complete plug and play set up...i have used the same bucket set up for my soil grows only the tubes were drain only instead of flood and drain.

[latewood]

bucket in a bucket is a great set up.i have these spaced a lil far becouse i can...but they can also be packed in.2 gallon buckets.if i had it to do over...i'd get black buckets.makes it very easy to tranfer plants from one room to the next.and is available thru NGW (national garden wholsale catalog)as a complete plug and play set up...i have used the same bucket set up for my soil grows only the tubes were drain only instead of flood and drain.I always liked that system...Nice. That extra room they get, because you spaced them right has to help with the lower parts of the plants, and keeping airflow going to ward off pests...'eh?

[divestoned]

yep ...my high (but not too high) humidity deters the mites also.bout 60% currently.I also remove abunch of the lower branches that wouldnt produce much anyhow.

[Opie Yutts]

Hey justaseed: What do you have to do in order to change your name to justaseedling? And what's after that?

[justaseed]

hey everyone, thanks for the info. i haven't been here to check this thread for a bit but it's the weekend again so i'll be around . i have been researching and i think i am gonna build and aero table very similar to the aerflo2 systems. there is a great howto article in the new cc mag. the only thing i can't seem to locate on the internet or locally are hydra connectors.

latewood, you say you would only do 5-6 plants in a 4'7" x 4'7" space with 1.4kw hps lighting? how long would you veg them. i grew 4 plants in my 2ftx4ft 400hps scrog and veg time on them to fill the screen was usually 4-6 weeks from rooting. i was thinking about 20 - 30 plants vegged for 3-7 days to fill the new space. at least that's how it would work with my soiless grows. i just can't see 5-6 plants filling the space unless i vegged for alot longer than a week. although i have little to no hydro experience and you seem to be the expert here so i definitely value your advice . you recommended about 16 plants. i could build a table that has 4 rows of 4 plants but i could always build a table that has 4 rows of 5or 6 plants each and just leave a few sites empty if it turns out to be too muh after i get through the 1st grow. i still have a couple months too work all this out so i welcome any and all thoughts on the matter.