The reason I went coco, day of harvest

[BlueBear]

OK, quick update. Chopped at day 50 because it was showing up 80/20 on the RadioShack special. Coco is my prefered medium at this point and I can't see my self switching back to soil ever or messing with my DWC buckets again unless I just have alot of extra time on my hands.
This is on par with the buckets any way, but with out PH fluxes, temp problems, water changes and so on.
Nutes are the GH 3 Part with the Late Wood formula including CalMag, SuperThrive, LiquidKarma and KoolBloom.
No problems/defs or complaints the whole grow.
Local strain that I was given for a test grow and I have 2 more in flower right now and 10 in the veg cab. 4 weeks veg
Adieu

[Chronic Chrissy]

We're impressed here, those are awsome buds! D you have a log from your grow?

[dusto2k3]

yesss, i'll be there soon, looks like your loco for coco!!!!

[BlueBear]

Thanks for stopping in young lady and Dusto. I am sorry, but I don't have a full log, bad at keeping up.
Here was a day 30 flower update http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/98699-coocoo-4-coco-coir.html

Here is a thread that I do need to update that has a pic of her in the veg cab I believe right before she went into flower. You just have to look around. Her name is Chang. http://boards.cannabis.com/indoor-growing/94533-bear-story-white-widow.html

Dusto I am def a Coco convert and hope more folks will try it out because I am just loving what I consider the hydro yield without the hydro work. Don't get me wrong it isn't a bed of roses, but once you have a little experience with growing it is a nice way to go.
Adieu

[invision]

nice,

is there a linky you could share how this works, your grow looks simply amazing

[BlueBear]

All I can really say is ask away, or perhaps I will put a little coco grow essay together later on tonight if folks are intrested.
Thanks for stopping in.
Adieu

[invision]

well lets start with how does one keep thier plants well watered?

[Scarlet Sky]

Don't get me wrong it isn't a bed of roses, but once you have a little experience with growing it is a nice way to go.
Adieu

that is perhaps an ironic statement; a rose bed is no bed of roses either...

sooo, my darling bear. good to see you around these parts again.. i have a few q's for you.

where can i get coco coir? i can't order ol, but i can make a day trip.
can i use a 175gph pond pump in a timed irrigation system?
would a timed irrigation system be helpful with coco?
how often do you need to water with coco?
where can i find superthrive?

ok, that's all for now, don't want to scare you off with a ten page questionaire...

love, Sky :abduct:

[dusto2k3]

yeah bear, i have my mums in some coco, and my next sog is gonna be in coco, so I might be asking for some tips herre and there

[doco]

Wow Bear those are some great lookin nugs - lol that one pic shows it as big as a box of oatmeal, sweet.

I am a first time indoor grower and I used soil but I'm definitely intrigued by your enthusiasm. I'll have to do some searches to find out more because I don't have the slightest idea how to grow in coco - yet!

EDIT: I just saw your offer to do an essay - that would be fantastic!

[BlueBear]

Hey folks, Sky your a breath of fresh air, LOL.
Well with watering, there are two schools of thoughts, but I am going to talk about the method I use because I have found that most use it and i think that it puts plants on par with hydro.
I hand water my plants every day, rooted clones get just enough to get a little run off and once in the 3 gallon pots they are on a half gallon a day feeding. This allows the roots to be like the roots in a hydro system IE massive.
I water every day and the coco is still very wet from the day before, but there is really no fear of over watering coco for the fact that coco carries a 60% airation with in the medium and as I water the new water pushes the old stagnate water out and as the new water sinks into the soil it not only brings in new O2 threw the water, but pulls in new O2 from the room. When I water I can litterly hear the water and air penetrating the coco, kind of like a bowl of rice crispies.
I use 3 gallon pots because I want 4 to 6 ounces off each plant give or take, but with 2 gallon pots I think that 3 to 5 ounce yields are reasonable too. The one thing is you do use allot of water, but I just have a 15 and 30 gallon Tupperware container that I constantly keep full with 5 gallon buckets so I am not making new batches of water every day. I keep 1 air stone in the water to keep it from going stagnate. Warning, not all organic nutes should be constantly aerated because they can loos some of there NPK values.
On the other hand coco holds so much water and O2 that if you want you can just water every few days and will have no problems, but the roots will grow more like a soil grow and you will need bigger pots for bigger yields IMO.
Sky, that pump should be fine for a 8 large plant set up, 3 gallons at a half gallon per day, or more plants with smaller pots. Once my room is on the same cycle, all the girls starting at the same time I will automate the room and just run a dripper to each pot and have them on a timer.
Sky you should be able to find coco at most garden stores from what I am starting to notice. If you can get the bags of loose coco it is nice, but I use GH coco bricks because know one up here carries the bags. The brick can contain some sodium so I just flush it by adding a bunch of water when I expand the brick and the run off that the coco gets when I put in the pot seems to be sufficient to flush the coco.
Now with nutes, many will only use coco specific nutes, but I have great success with the GH and CalMag IMO is a must when in coco for the fact that coco buffers calcium and magnesium different that soil and strait hydro, so that CalMag at half strength every feeding keeps me from running into defs.
Well, I am sure I will remember more later, as a matter of fact, the coco is nice because unlike hydro temps are not a medium problem like when you have water in a res which may need a chiller that can run approx 500 bucks. The coco seems to stay somewhat cool, cooler than soil and I could probably find out why, but I just don't feel like digging all around for one small point of why I use it.
Well, hope that this info helps. Feel free to ask any more questions, this seems like a short essay in it self.
PS, Sky SuperThrive is at my local store, but if you don't find it I would just keep using the vit B from Home Depot. I would put a ML in a gallon and thin a spray bottle for misting as well.

[dusto2k3]

bluebear, what do you think about adding some perlite to the coco and still watering everyday, better?, more o2?

Can you tell me more about the feeding sched., or howe bout a link. I saw you said latewoods, from the FAQ section...progressivegrotwh.com?

Do you feed 1/2 gal cuz thats what it takes to get 20% runoff? 3 gal pots you say?

[Scarlet Sky]

thanx so very much bear, i'll be looking for coco, and i'll let you know when the goods are in and i'm ready to set up. i'll need some advice on drippers, lines etc, for the irrigation thing... i have the pump, but that's all right now... maybe i'll get by lowe's tomorrow.

what is the vitb called at hd? i've not seen anything like that at lowe's (except root stimulator, 10-20-10)

love, Sky :abduct:

[BlueBear]

OK, Dusto, many do add perlite, and I do sometimes with clones, but overall I can't say it makes a different. One thing that I do try to always do now is add a layer of hydro rocks at the bottom of the pot because it seems to help with drainage. I use 1/2 gallon because it seems to give me a nice 5 to 10% run off and some shoot for more, but I have noticed that some coco nutes who used to say 15 to 20% have lowered it to 10 to 15% and you have to remember that the more you use to water the more nutes you use and the more money those companies make.
Sky Lows/HD carry these gallons of vitamin B that is a nice tool to have in the stable and it is maybe $10 or $20 and is worth every penny IMO.
With setting up your drip when ever that happens I would just get the black tubing from lows, 1/4 or 1/8 in and shoot one or two lines to each plant, meaning you don't need all of the drip heads and so on because they tend to be unnecessary IMO. You can make a manifold that connects all of the lines with PVC piping and drill 1/4 holes or a little smaller throughout it and put your lines in it sealing the lines with aquarium glue or a hot glue gun. You can also get shut off valves for the lines incase you need to regulate the pressure on a particular line that is putting out more water than the others. Of coarse there is more to it, but this is the basic set up. Many sights have diy instructions on setting up drip systems that can give you some good little tips.
Adieu

[dusto2k3]

sounds great, thanks for your time, we'll see how the next venture goes.

[Scarlet Sky]

will the restriction of flow hurt the pump? ie, if i use small drip holes and cap the end of the line so it creates back pressure, will it cause the pump to burnup?
drip ends
pump--I--I--I--I-->cap/plug

^^ like this?

[BlueBear]

Sorry Sky my vision is too bad to make out the diagram. I don't think you will have a problem with back pressure and this is why, you will only be running the pump for a minute or 2 a day and the pump will be able to operate at a healthy level. The goal isn't necessarily to stop the pressure flow from the pump, but rather to evenly distribute it throughout the lines.
I will try to explain the connection, 1.Pump, 2. PVC, 3. drip lines going out of the PVC, 4. valves at the end of the lines, 5. about 6 to 8 inches of more line on the other end of the valves going down to the pots, oh yes, at the end of the PVC pipe you would place a cap. Hope that is a little understandable.
Adieu

[BlueBear]

Sky I re read what you were trying to explain and I think that you could do it that way, but you just want to make sure that you are getting the amount of water you want. For a few bucks you can order, or rather in some cases go to a land scaping/irragation secction of a store and find this tubing that has drippers in the hose every 12 in, you just fit the tubbing or hose on to your pump and posission the hose around your pots angling the drippers into the pots, but you would have to do some real munipulating of pots and hose to get it set up right.
Adieu

[Scarlet Sky]

then you would simply time how long it takes to run the amount you want? wow, sounds easy...

almost too easy... lol, i can't wait til i find some coco!

[BlueBear]

Exactly. The only thing that is a problem for me is starting all the girls at the same time since I always have some new strain geting put in the mix like these 2 little BB and BBxTW I have going, LOL. A good friend dropped them on me.
You see my nute formula changes up half way threw flower so it wouldn't work rright now to have them all getting the same water, but in a couple months that should be different. Another thing, since a small of run off is necessary I do this, I use 3 gallon pots with a bunch of holes drilled in the bottom and keep that pot on a 2 gallon bucket and the run off go's right into the bucket and I just change the run off water once a week approx. Having the run off is also nice because you don't get any salt build ups in the medium.
Adieu

[dusto2k3]

FUNNY THING IS bLUBEAR, ABOUT TWO WEEKS AGO I TRANSPLANTED SOME CLONES 2 INTO PROMIX AND 2 INTO COCO AND NOW THE 2 COCO'S ARE LIKE 1.5 INCHES BIGGER ALREADY, WITH A LOT MORE...sorry caps, i dont wanna type again, secondary growth.


do you water-water-feed?

[stinkyattic]

Hey BlueBear!
What fantastic timing... I am mulling coco for my next op after having had to deal with a 2500 square foot house literally COATED with perlite and dirt when I tore down last week. That stuff gets everywhere and I managed to burn out my shop vac.
It seems coco is pretty trouble free as well as clean...
And that first bud shot - WOW- now I know why that guy on the oatmeal box has that shiteating grin on his puss.

[dusto2k3]

lol, for sure Stinky, I have Perlite everywhere, in my backyard, i cant get rid of it, it sucks. This peat has got to go. Stinky, IM SURE you'll be glad to hear that!!!!

Stinky, just so you know, I've had real good results with Promix BX. No Ph Issues

[BlueBear]

Stinky your too funny. Dusto, I am not sure what you were asking about watering.
Oh, the joy of perlite, LOL. In some ways the coco is messy and then in other ways it is just such an easy clean that you wonder why you didn't try it sooner.
Also, since it is anert you don't get the same problems with pests and your out dore garden will love it. Also Stinky many are re using it up to 4 and 5 times with no problems. The only thing you need to consider Stinky is that some teas and castings can kind of clog up the coco stopping its ability to maintaine its airation and drain properly. On the flip side, the chillating mis spel, agents in the coco do exactly many products in the way of root strengthing and establishing a health root inviornment that is more resistent to problems with pests, heat and root rott

[BlueBear]

I don't know what happend but I got cut off in the middle of that last post, but in short what I was saying is what you loos in teas and castings can be made up for in other ways, but still some are using the teas, and if you want I will try to find out some basic do's and don'ts with organic teas.
Adieu

[dusto2k3]

i was wondering if you give them a nute solution every watering, so feed every day, or just some days give them water?

[xcrispi]

wow bear girls look sweet .
keep up the good work .
peace
crispi

[BlueBear]

Thanks for stopping in Xcrispi. Dusto, I feed every day and with the run off I haven't had any defs or salt build ups, but with moms in coco I would prob nute every other watering with a low mixture. For moms I still go with soil because with something like Shultz all purpose fert you can just keep moms in a 3 to 5 gal pot for a year and feed with plane PH water and the plant should do fine and it is pretty low maintenance. Just try to get a little run off now and then and something like Clearex to flush will be sufficient if any build ups occur throughout the year.
Adieu

[doco]

Hey Bear, sorry for the noob question but with coco, what strength nutes do you start the clones off with? Same as with soil? 1/4 - 1/2 - full? Or do you cut back some since you are feeding everyday?

[BlueBear]

I use CalMag, Liquid Karma and super thrive at half strength when I start nutes, with the exception of SuperThrive which I use for misting even when they are still unrooted, after they reach the 4TH node I use the things first mintioned at 1/2 strength and when they get the 5th node I use full strength GH 3 part.
Hope that helps.
Adieu

[doco]

Thanks Bluebear, you're a gem. Or maybe a trichome crystal :D

[babystarbud]

looking nice! and thanks for the info, ive been thinking about coco and trying to work out whats involved....thanks again

[BlueBear]

Not a problem and thanks for the positive words.
Adieu

[dusto2k3]

bluebear, what do you adjust your pH to?

[Shallow Hal]

looks sweet bear and like i told u coco is a dream to work with. dusto u can keep ur ph between 6 and 7 but i find that 6.3 is around the best in coco. on another note u wanna try the GH ripen for the last 14 days or so bear . it really helps finish the plants and leech the N outta them.

[dusto2k3]

thanks ?Hal, thats really good news to hear as i'm already adjusting the ph to 6.3. Sick.

The Hanna phep4 is the best tool i've ever purchased

[dusto2k3]

so bluebear, you dont think rez temp is that big of a deal, doing a drip system into coco?

[BlueBear]

Hal, you were one of my inspirations when I started the coco journey and I am glad you answered so many questions when I was the one asking. I will probably pick up some ripen when I run out of Clearex.
Personally I adjust my PH to 5.8/5.9 and it works, but Hal does differently and has great success so I imagine that either will do.
With drip temps, I don't believe that it is as detrimental as a full on hydro set up, but never the less, roots love cool water feedings even when in soil, but I would say that what ever temps you can get away with in soil can be workable in coco. Beyond that I can't say much, except for maybe one thing, one grower who helped to persuade me to try coco who is a mod on another board was converted him self when he went to his brother and laws house and saw his coco grown plants thriving in Australian temps while he himself was having a terrible battle with DWC.
Thanks for stopping in folks.
Adieu

[Just A Beginner]

We switched to Coco about 10 days ago, got 30 odd plants growin at an amazing rate, temps sometimes in the high 80's but they seem to love it, to grow a full 12 inches in a week, unbelieveable..

[Cyclonite]

Ya know....I was thinking of doing a NFT next but this looks to have a much better work/reward ratio. If I ever want to add plants well I got to really rebuild my setup with this just add a plant and bam. Easy to move around if needed also....im not sure what I would do if I had to move a 15 gal tub of water with roots that cant dry up.

[Just A Beginner]

We were a bit worried about repotting out babies into Coco, but it went so well, they are thriving wish we had used Coco on our first grow, can't wait to see the end result.

[Racerx]

mmm those first pics look yummy yum yum Bear Bear. Ive never tried Coco, always been curious. Sounds fun.

[dusto2k3]

Bluebear, back to the drip systems, do you have exp. with them. Would it be OK to use a .5gph or a 1gph emmitter and just comtrol the amout of water in 15min inrciments using a timer? or get a 1-10gph and adjust the flow on the emitter...the only reason is i plan on having 64 emitters and it would be hard to get them all the same.

[c of green]

hey bear did you get your name from a book?just saw it at borders...and it was about your neck of the woods.

[PharmaCan]

Bear - I just started my first grow about ten days ago. Total Noob - never grew before. The coco is fantastic! I bought three clones from an MMJ co-op and they are now up to about ten inches tall. I'm not quite sure how you count nodes LOL. One plant has 14 "sprouts" coming off the stem. Is that 14 nodes or seven?

Before I started the grow, I read eveything I could find on this site about growing in coco and the information here has been invaluable. It's really cool that the experienced growers take the time share their knowledge. Thank you, one and all!

Question: Bear - you said that the roots enjoy cool water. I thought I read that the water should be close to grow room temperature. How much cooler should the water be? My grow box gets up to about 82 F at the hottest part of the day. The water in my watering bucket is now 66 F. Is that too great a temperature difference? (I've been leaving a small watering bottle in the gow box so that it will be about the same temp as the plants.) I'm watering daily, so I'm wondering, if cool water is good for the roots/plants, should I water at the time of day when the box is at its hottest?

[dusto2k3]

Pharmacan, I aint Blue, but i grow in coco too. My rez sits at a constant 66-68 degress. I have tremendous growth. I know you dont have to woory about the temp really. I feed 4x day and i see no problems, only great shit.

[PharmaCan]

Pharmacan, I aint Blue, but i grow in coco too. My rez sits at a constant 66-68 degress. I have tremendous growth. I know you dont have to woory about the temp really. I feed 4x day and i see no problems, only great shit.

Thanks, Dusto. I'll start using the cooler water. Sometimes I think I'm on information overload - but I'll always remember advice from folks who grow buds the size of an oatmeal box.

[4x5]

"The fragrance of Afghanistan; Rewards a long day's toil" Fine Yield friend!

[dusto2k3]

Hal, you were one of my inspirations when I started the coco journey and I am glad you answered so many questions when I was the one asking. I will probably pick up some ripen when I run out of Clearex.
Personally I adjust my PH to 5.8/5.9 and it works, but Hal does differently and has great success so I imagine that either will do.
With drip temps, I don't believe that it is as detrimental as a full on hydro set up, but never the less, roots love cool water feedings even when in soil, but I would say that what ever temps you can get away with in soil can be workable in coco. Beyond that I can't say much, except for maybe one thing, one grower who helped to persuade me to try coco who is a mod on another board was converted him self when he went to his brother and laws house and saw his coco grown plants thriving in Australian temps while he himself was having a terrible battle with DWC.
Thanks for stopping in folks.
Adieu

read this pharmacan

[PharmaCan]

read this pharmacan

Actually, Dusto, that's what prompted me to ask the question in the first place. I was operating under the premise that the water was best if served at (grow) room temperature. Since my plants are thriving, I wanted to be certain before I made any changes.

"Cool water" can mean different things to different people, that's why I asked about the specific temps.

[dusto2k3]

International Cannagraphic Magazine Forums - Growing in Coco Coir (http://www.icmag.com/ic/forumdisplay.php?f=65577)

you want more coco infor...here ya go.

[mobay]

i myself will be using coco for the first time with some clones. so they really do work better?

[dusto2k3]

if you have it on an auto watering, its better. I tried some mothers in coco and it became too much hassle to i trashed them and put them back into promix