how ignorant are we?

[tonydh21]

I know we can ask who created god and who created him but the fact is if their was ever nothing their would be nothing today. So something has had to been here forever. What could it be...god maybe. What else! Do you think god is so stupid so simple that we can understand even a fraction of him? a ant understands us 1 million times more than we will ever understand god. God is real because we are here, because anything exists at all. Who can anybody with half a brain not see that. I am not a christian or muslim or jew or hindu or buda. I am man with common sence trying to find the truth. You need to find your own truth but never be so vain to think god dose not exist. That is egnorant beyond belivie.
I know I am not a perfect speller, I'm not perfeat at anything but at least I know it.

[mrdevious]

So where's your evidence that god was the initial catylist for existence? Or are you just taking the easiest answer and accepting it because you can't think of a better one? The core problem of god is that people just fill him in where we don't have the answers yet. Can't explain it? then god must have done it!

There's another theory that I read in a quantum physics book, that suggests the problem of "something" coming out of "nothing" lies in the illusion that something and nothing are distinctly different things. All matter, when you break it down small enough, eventually ends up at subatomic particles that exist only as force fields, with no physical substance to them. It is theorized that these tiny areas of force are a piece of the fabric of reality itself.
You know how gravity is theorized to be a bending in space-time? Well how exactly can you "bend" nothingness? The answer, according to many or our most prominant and sucessfull scientific minds, is that such a bending is possible because gravity what lies between somethingness and nothingness. Matter and energy are, essentially, the compacted trillions of subatomic forcefields which are comprised of nothing but space-time itself. The rest of the universe, that which we call "nothing", is the areas of space-time which have not developed these little forcefields that collect together through gravitation. How these little forcefields arise in the first place I couldn't tell you, but Stephen Hawking had a great theory on how that would be possible with milisecond creation and obliteration of matter and anti-matter particles.

Is this theory correct? It's the best one we have so far, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But as you can see, just because god is the only one you can think of doesn't make it the correct response be default.

[tonydh21]

So where's your evidence that god was the initial catylist for existence? Or are you just taking the easiest answer and accepting it because you can't think of a better one? The core problem of god is that people just fill him in where we don't have the answers yet. Can't explain it? then god must have done it!

There's another theory that I read in a quantum physics book, that suggests the problem of "something" coming out of "nothing" lies in the illusion that something and nothing are distinctly different things. All matter, when you break it down small enough, eventually ends up at subatomic particles that exist only as force fields, with no physical substance to them. It is theorized that these tiny areas of force are a piece of the fabric of reality itself.
You know how gravity is theorized to be a bending in space-time? Well how exactly can you "bend" nothingness? The answer, according to many or our most prominant and sucessfull scientific minds, is that such a bending is possible because gravity what lies between somethingness and nothingness. Matter and energy are, essentially, the compacted trillions of subatomic forcefields which are comprised of nothing but space-time itself. The rest of the universe, that which we call "nothing", is the areas of space-time which have not developed these little forcefields that collect together through gravitation. How these little forcefields arise in the first place I couldn't tell you, but Stephen Hawking had a great theory on how that would be possible with milisecond creation and obliteration of matter and anti-matter particles.

Is this theory correct? It's the best one we have so far, maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But as you can see, just because god is the only one you can think of doesn't make it the correct response be default.

I know their is on proof beyond emtion and love and life or anthing just being here. That is all I have to prove god is real and i don't mean god by the traditonal meaning i simply mean a force that is everything, did not creat but is. I am not taking the easy way out I have gave this years of thought and it is the only answer i can come up with. I am not puting god in by default but by understanding anything exsit at all and that life exist and that LOVE exist I have to say something loves us something is us something connects us some much that willing some one to better health makes them a little better or speeds up their recovery. Speaking in toungs, i did when i was 8, is exticy and unfakeable. The thing I remeber most about that experience is after hours of praying and then receving the holy ghost i went to micy Ds' and on the way i was talking to my mom and in mid sentence i started to speak in toungs agine , it was uncountralable and gave me joy beyound belife with every word. That is my proof, maybe if you reach for god, god will give you proof and god will if you wont it.

[deftdrummer]

That is very loosely based Christian ideology you have there. You say that you are not a religious person or a Christian yet you look to things such as love and interconnectedness in order to prove your point? Don't get me wrong, I too believe that there is something very special and unique about the human experience involving love and emotions, but I do not really think that religion or philosophical dabbling has much to do with it. In other words, human emotions and interactions are INDEPENDENT of such a god if it were to exist.

In my opinion, if god exists it is so powerful and all knowing that it is fundamentally impossible for man to comprehend god either in a physical or metaphysical manner. The scope of "god" as a whole is just far too complex for the human brain - even the advanced human brain.

Now that is not entirely the way I think, but bits and pieces are certainly laudable. I am not sure what you mean by the whole speaking in tongues thing, unless you are implying that on that particular day the discussion with your mother was somehow divinely amended?

[mrdevious]

I know their is on proof beyond emtion and love and life or anthing just being here. That is all I have to prove god is real and i don't mean god by the traditonal meaning i simply mean a force that is everything, did not creat but is. I am not taking the easy way out I have gave this years of thought and it is the only answer i can come up with. I am not puting god in by default but by understanding anything exsit at all and that life exist and that LOVE exist I have to say something loves us something is us something connects us some much that willing some one to better health makes them a little better or speeds up their recovery. Speaking in toungs, i did when i was 8, is exticy and unfakeable. The thing I remeber most about that experience is after hours of praying and then receving the holy ghost i went to micy Ds' and on the way i was talking to my mom and in mid sentence i started to speak in toungs agine , it was uncountralable and gave me joy beyound belife with every word. That is my proof, maybe if you reach for god, god will give you proof and god will if you wont it.

Fair enough tony, I do at least agree with you that there are many things beyond our scope of understanding and there's probably a level of consciousnes, quite possibly our own, that we have no achieved yet. Just remember though, our greatest knowledge is knowing where we are ignorant. Don't fall into the trap to drawing conclusions from mysterious events, just accept that you know what you know and the answer still lies beyond. I think you're thinking, and that's good, just don't be too casual about throwing the word "proof" around. What you have is information, and sometimes knowledge from that information, but seldom do we gain proof.

And believe me, I kept myself open to god when I believed in him completely and with deep devotion till I was 18. But when I consistantly saw that my prayers were ignored, answered at no more than statistical propability and never answered when I needed god most, I started to ask questions. I didn't get the answer I wanted on a spiritual level, but I got the anwers I wanted in knowing the truth. The truth, I have always held in the highest regard, much higher than my desired delusions.

[stinkyattic]

http://boards.cannabis.com/spirituality/99928-if-their-ever-nothing-could-their-something-today.html

Well tonyd, it is official; not only is your argument basically contrived, but you are now a SPAMMER!!!!!

Can you confine this to a single thread? Or do you have to continue to make new threads with same thing cut-n-pasted over and over again!!!

Please. Gimme a break.

[cannabis=freedom]

I absolutely believe in a driving spiritual force. However, in my belief this is not "God", especially of the type that punishes people for having sex, etc. Something unspoken is there, though, that man has not the capacity to ever understand (science is meaningless as it relates to what the world is TRULY about), but the easy labeling of this as "God" (a person who made stuff) is FAR too simple. The fact that we and everything exists is so fantastic, though.