Who's working with T5s

[hewhispers]

They keep calling me and I have seen other logs elsewhere where T5s are being used from seed to harvesting.

Is there anyone here using them?
What were your results?

What were the positives, negatives?

Thanks!

[friendowl]

im curious myself

i just boughta 400 watt mh
to veg for my 1000w hps

but the t'5s i am curiuos about

[TheGreenFog]

I'm curious too...

~ticoblunts~ was the one who did the veg/flower...with T5s...

Oddly enough he dissapeared before the harvest...and then just recently came back with a new grow...BUT we never got to see the harvest or any end results at all. :( Surprised he kept no pics. Maybe PTS was right? :what:

So, the jury is still out on this one.

Hey, ticoblunts...where are you when we need you?


The Fog :rastasmoke:

[hewhispers]

There was a pro grower who ran a great log last fall.

If you are interested....its a good read with nice photos.
It certainly provides some incentive.

http://www.cannabisculture.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1299207&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

[Grape Ape]

I've been using them, from seed, to now bud. Grew great plants in short time, been a week into budding, and they are looking beautiful, I have (1) 4ft, (2) 3ft, (1) 2ft. (of course I have (2) 25watt cfls and (2) 42watt cfls, don't forget the 3ft all purpose grow light) -Will be replacing lights with a 400watt hps soon fo 100dalla. :) (includes ballast, ect)

[doco]

kdspecial has a nice little grow going with T5's over in the closet/cabinet forum: http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-cabinet-growing/80001-cfl-cab-grow-log-2.html . I think he starts with the T5 on page 2.

[Racerx]

T5s rule. They should replace all MH. I use them for clone and first few weeks of veg, along with keeping the mothers going. Works beautifully. The growth isnt super fast, but it is nice and tight which is what I want.

[hewhispers]

doco: I read his thread. kd's T5s are 27watts. Growers would do better with the 54 watt (HO = High Output) set up.

This is the little that I know about floros in general that might keep things straight.

Every size of fluorescent tube comes in three power levels:


NO (normal output)
HO (high output)
VHO (very high output)


All you will see in Home Depot and Target are the normal output ballast/fixtures and the tubes that fit them. With T5 you want the 54 watts only as they are they throw more lumen power than your 27 watts, so check specialty light shops or aquarium shops or online. The prices are slowly coming down for T5 HOs to the point of being viable.

Ballasts come in two flavors:

magnetic
electronic
There are only electronic ballasts for T8s.
The "T" stands for "tubular", or the shape of the tube.

[harris7]

i grow with a 100W 4x 2ft electronic T5.

Works great, but dosn't do too well on larger plants

[doco]

doco: I read his thread. kd's T5s are 27watts. Growers would do better with the 54 watt (HO = High Output) set up.

This is the little that I know about floros in general that might keep things straight.

Every size of fluorescent tube comes in three power levels:


NO (normal output)
HO (high output)
VHO (very high output)


All you will see in Home Depot and Target are the normal output ballast/fixtures and the tubes that fit them. With T5 you want the 54 watts only as they are they throw more lumen power than your 27 watts, so check specialty light shops or aquarium shops or online. The prices are slowly coming down for T5 HOs to the point of being viable.


All T5's are HO and you will not find anything like the New Wave T5's at Target or Home Depot. Kdspecials T5's are 27w because they are 24" as are mine (mine are actually 24w though), the 48" are the 54w. I use 24" T5's for my Mothers and for cloning/vegging (with T8 side lighting) and they fit my cab perfectly while providing excellent results. There is a great deal of misinformation being disseminated about these lights and your "facts" about which lamps are suitable for growers is just another example of that.

[hewhispers]

Doco:

Unfortunately you're speaking in absolutes, and you should not be.

Fact: the 48" bulb comes both as 54w and 28 watts.
Fact: not all T5s are HO.
That all T5 bulbs are HO, even for 24" is incorrect.

T-5 Lamp Miniature Bi-Pin Base 48" 6500K: Light Bulbs Etc, Inc. (http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/PROD/T5/FP28865)

Misinformation indeed.

[doco]

err, umm, shuffles feet....I stand corrected. :)

[doco]

But my bigger point was that your insistence on using 54w bulbs is not necessary...the 24" 24w x 4 tubes do just fine if you don't have room for the bigger ones. You always want to use as much wattage as your space can allow of course.

[Shovelhandle]

This Bubblegum has been 3 weeks of 12-12. Over 36" tall Lots of bud sites all over. This top in the photo is about an inch from a pair of 32W 3000k FT8 lamps and a 98% reflector. It has (4) tube by 46" 54watt T5HO 3000K.for horizontal side lighting. I used theses same fixtures to veg but used all
cooler tubes. When I went to 12-12, for more sidelighting I added these 250W HID lamps of some sort. Some older mulivapor. The way this grow looks, I think I'll try without the 500W of HID next time.

[attachment=o114052]

Shov

[ticoblunts]

Ok guys Tico is in the house!! I have lots of experience iwth this light and IM IN LOVE!! One of the best investments ive made yet!! I grow with the t5 4ft 8 bulb all warm bulbs straight across...no cpmplaints here...This time around everyone will see the end results...As soon as I get home I will post some pics of the babies!!

[JunkYard]

But my bigger point was that your insistence on using 54w bulbs is not necessary...the 24" 24w x 4 tubes do just fine if you don't have room for the bigger ones. You always want to use as much wattage as your space can allow of course.

I'm glad I found this thread, haha! I'm contemplating buying either a T5 4' 4 lamp fixture, or a T5 2' 8 lamp system. The 2' system would def fit better in my closet, but the the 4' has higher wattage, and puts out 4000 more (overall) lumens. I'm curious if the 2' fixture would work jst as well, though ?

Anyone know?

[Shovelhandle]

The concern about the lower powered lighting source of the fluorecent lamps is that it gives light, "airy" buds. I've not grown excusivley indoors before, but I'm willing to give the tubes a chance because I like their numbers. I think that if I can get the vegitation close to the tubes I'm gold. :]

Seems that maybe these do support flowering very well. Again, just three weeks into 12-12.

[attachment=o114061]


Shovelhandle

[dutch.lover]

i use a T5 for vegging plants...if you wanna look in my grow log (click my sig) i talk about it quite a bit in the last page or two.

[doco]

Here is my mothering station. First pic is 12/24, second pic 1/12 - pretty good growth for 19 days. 24" T5 HO 24w x 4 bulbs 6500 K. There are also T8 6500 K tubes on the sides.

I have only started with this light a short while ago but I'm amazed with it.

[hewhispers]

doco

Nice photos.

I see that you have fixtures both ontop and on the sides.
Are they all going at the same time?
Any heat issues?

How much height do you have? do you need?

My cab is 4' W and 6' H.
I think I will have a lot of wasted height which I might use for clones.

[doco]

Ya, I have the lights on all at the same time, both top & bottom. My cab is 6' h x 3' w x 1.5' d and I gave about 48" to the lower section for the mothers and the top 24" to cloning and early vegging up above. The side lights are T8's 17w ea 6500K.

Here is a link to the building of it: http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-cabinet-growing/95794-docos-mother-cloning-cabinet.html

There's no heat problem yet but its winter in so-cal and I have the lights on at night with the windows cracked a few inches. I live just a few blocks from the beach so I have kind of a buffer...its warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer here than it is inland even just a couple miles.

I've only been using this setup since mid December so my experience with how big they can get is limited but I topped the Kush bush you see there and I'm LSTing the small Jedi mother next to it. I still have plenty of room for them to grow more and I'll just keep pruning them.

I think you have plenty of room to have a cloning section in that cab of yours depending on the strains you choose to grow out.

Good luck & happy growing

[harris7]

Something Iâ??ve found with my T5 is that I always get lower leaf discoloration.

I donâ??t know why, It might be because the plant grows so fast under that light that I just donâ??t feed it enough.

Iâ??ll attach some pics. IT happens to all the plants, and stops once I put them under my MH

But check out the Axial growth on these guys, thats what the T5 does best.

it's best if you can get really small clones or seedlings under it, they just become little bushes. Sometimes the side shoots grow as fast as the terminal bud. it's great

[stinkyattic]

I use a 24-inch, 5 light New Wave T5 fixture for my seedling area. It's one of the best investments I made, the other 2 being my HPS1000 and a set of commercial-grade adjustable wire racks to stack my veg room insted of having it all over the floor.

[JunkYard]

I ordered my T5's this morning "wOOt" :D

[Shovelhandle]

I picked up an unused (brand new) 4 lamp T54HO troffer w/lamps for $40. Ebay

Shov

[harris7]

I picked up an unused (brand new) 4 lamp T54HO troffer w/lamps for $40. Ebay

Shov

thats a steal. I paid 140$ for my 24 inch 4 bulb 100W lamp

[hewhispers]

harris7

Ive read that such yellowing occurs because plants use more nutrients than you can supply. This happens more with soil, less with hydro.

Hope this helps.

[harris7]

i really dont worry about it too much. The bottom leafs dont do that much. They're far from the light and are shaded by the canopy. So it's not much of a loss, i've had some yellowing on all my plants and they grow up to be happy bud bearing plants. So w/e

[Uncle E]

I am about to buy a 4ft 4 tube t5 H.O. for clone / veg, but was wondering if these suckers are any good for flowering using the S.O.G. method. The space would be inches bigger then the unit itself with mylar sides and lights close to tops. I am on my first grow in my new apt. closet and heat is my biggest concern with my hps setup I have now. I was just wondering if it is worthwhile using t5 H.O. 3000k or just stick with 'ol school hps. Good priced units here High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproducts.asp?page=4&subID=11&catID=12)

[trynagethigh]

look at this, its cheap too for 10000 lumens

High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/productdetail.asp?productID=537)

[Cautios]

Just wanted to point out to you harris7 the discoloration is likely due to the distance from the bulb. Seems pretty likely, esspecially considering that you describe the location as being shaded. That would also explain why the problem gets better under HID. I know that I'm off topic. Sorry.

[GRB.4.Life]

My first T5 grow will start as soon as my lighting and soil are put together.

The cabinet space is roughly 4ft tall X 4ft wide X 2.5ft in depth. It will be painted flat white first and, if my budget allows for it, lined with mylar on all sides.

Lighting:

∙ 216 watt 4-ft 95% reflective T5 fluorescent grow light with textured charcoal gray powder coated steel housing and 12FT power cord.
∙ Includes 2-6500 Kelvin & 2-3000 Kelvin Fluorescent lamps for all purpose growth
∙ Lumen Output: 20,000 lumens
∙ Fixture dimensions: 47"Lx10"Wx2.5"
∙ Growing Area: 4ft x 2.5ft
∙ 120V Solid state electronic ballasts

I will be growing one or two plants. Not sure yet.

I figured this would suit the whole life of the plant/s perfectly from seedling to harvest. Here's why:

I have grown, from seedling to flower, with far less lumens on nothing but CFLs. With one plant in a 4ftT X 2ftL X 2ftW I used 4 CFLs 2 42w cool and 2 32w warm. I yielded with about 1.5ozs. As many have stated, the buds were fluffy and not very solid. On the other hand the potency was excellent in my opinion and after proper curing the taste was a very fine sweet orangy citrus flavor (more strain related but it was bagseed so no clue on strain, although I do know it was highly indica dominant.)

I used NO fertilizer. I used potting soil mixed with organic growing soil.

Keep your eyes peeled for my small grow log with T5s!

[harris7]

I am about to buy a 4ft 4 tube t5 H.O. for clone / veg, but was wondering if these suckers are any good for flowering using the S.O.G. method. The space would be inches bigger then the unit itself with mylar sides and lights close to tops. I am on my first grow in my new apt. closet and heat is my biggest concern with my hps setup I have now. I was just wondering if it is worthwhile using t5 H.O. 3000k or just stick with 'ol school hps. Good priced units here High Tech Garden Supply (http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproducts.asp?page=4&subID=11&catID=12)


stick with the HPS, the t5 dosn't have much intensity and the results fall off quickly as distance from the light increases.

your lower buds wont be getting much light at all, stay with the HPS

[GRB.4.Life]

If he does a SOG he shouldn't have any lower bud sites. At least if he does it right anyways...

There are a lot of variables though. How many plants, how big of a space, Wattage of the HPS and of the T5 fixture, what kind of reflective material, etc...

In my opinion, I would at least try the T5s. But if you do, SOG would be your best bet when using fluorescents of any kind. And considering you will be using mylar you should be sure to make use of it best by making a smaller enclosure inside the closet. But again, there's another variable here, what are the dimensions of the closet? This will allow you to make that T5 pretty damned efficient. The key to using fluorescents effectivly is keeping the light as confined as possible. If you cannot do this I wouldn't try using the T5 for flowering.

On the other hand, if you're using your whole closet as the grow space you would probably be better of with the HPS. That is, of course, providing that the HPS produces at least double the lumens the T5 does. And like you said, you're worried about heat and that would be about the only concern you should have with the HPS really. If your HPS gives off more lumens then I would definatly attempt to accomodate for the HPS.

How many watts are the HPS and T5 Fixtures?

[harris7]

yes but when i mean results diminishing with a distance, i mean with a distance of 4 inches you dont get results.

I dont like growing plants bigger than 6 inch under my T5. i'm sure you could get em a little bigger with the 4ftx2ft model but not significantly bigger.

T5's cost an arm and a leg also. mine was 140$ for 100W
the 400 watt model is around 400$ (i think)
that’s a lot for only 400W and less lumens than an HPS by far

my fixture at 100W puts out 9000 lumens (or 8500 cant remember)
so assuming a linear relationship that’s 36000 lumens for 400W
Now a 400W HPS gets 50 000lm so 12 000’s a pretty big difference

Not to mention HPS gives off UVB light which is very good
T5’s do not

[Shovelhandle]

I used T-5 and T-8 on my last grow (Bubblegum). The three plants in the windowbox planter had the (4) lamp T-5 for side lighting and the (2) T-8s for top lights. My three other plants had some 250W HPS lighting (sometimes one, sometimes two fixtures) and came out great, but not quite as big nuggets as these buds, surprisingly.
These are beautiful, smell outrageous and probably will kick ass (they just started to cure).

I plan on doing the same this grow except I'll be getting 5000K or 6500K instead of the 4100K for vegging as soon as I can clean up from the last grow. I use 3000K for flowering. No need to mitigate for the heat either. I just use one fan to move the air a bit. I was really pleased with the results. I am not going to put three plants in a planter again this time, but I don't think the results were as bad as some folks think. <G> But hey, do what you want. I like to have a small, efficient grow setup. This worked out excellent for me.

No arguement that HPS is the standard (best overall) for flowering but these flourescents did the trick with less energy ($$).

If you'd like, see Shov's Bubblegum Grow in the Grow Log Threads.

Shov

[GRB.4.Life]

Oh no doubt about it, HPS is definatly a higher yielding solution to indoor growing. Penetration is the key, I think we're all aware of that. And HPS has the penetration advantage over the T5s. If I had the money and space available I would go HPS without question.

But for some people, such as in my case, an HPS setup is just not feasable for a couple of reasons. After you factor in the amount of electricity ($$) being used for just a 12/12 flowering cycle you're looking at almost DOUBLE what a T5 fixture would run on 18/6. The heat issue alone in such a small setup is enough to make you not want to bother with it. 4ft L x 4ft W x 2ft D is just too small for an HPS lamp that puts out 20,000lumens. The bottom line is HPS gets expensive quick and the T5 HO fluorescents are the best bang for your buck.

So in the end sometimes you gotta work with what you got I suppose.

I bet I still get upwards of 2OZs dried off one plant. :p

[harris7]

Both of the last two posts said that T5’s save electricity.

This is simply not true.

You will have to use Significantly more electricity to achieve the same illumination than with a HPS. As I said above the difference between a 400W HPS and 400W T5 is 12 000 Lumens. Thus you’d need to use more like a 550W T5 to equal a 400W HPS in Lumens. HPS is the cheapest light to Run.

As well a 400W HPS is Half the price of a T5 but you have to deal with heat.

[GRB.4.Life]

You're absolutely right harris.

But...There are still stipulations being overlooked here.

You really can't use the HPS alone for vegetative growth. Simply put, you can but you WILL run into problems and deficiencies. This requires you to have an alternative lighting setup simply for vegetative growth. Which adds to the cost of the setup initially.

So the combined expenses and power usage of an HPS setup are just not feasable for some people.

The T5 setup is much more feasable in my opinion because you can take for instance a 4 Lamp setup, mix your Kelvin and use it for the whole cycle of the plant from germination to harvest without changing anything but the light timing.

[GRB.4.Life]

Here's the deal on HPS from what I understand:

High Pressure Sodium - HPS:

High pressure sodium bulbs emit an orange-red glow. This band of light triggers hormones in plants to increase flowering/budding in plants. They are the best grow lights available for secondary or supplemental lighting (used in conjunction with natural sunlight). This is ideal for greenhouse growing applications.

Not only is this a great flowering light, it has two features that make it a more economical choice. Their average lifespan is twice that of metal halides, but after 18,000 hours of use, they will start to draw more electricity than their rated watts while gradually producing less light. HPS bulbs are very efficient. They produce up to 140 lumens per watt. Their disadvantage is they are deficient in the blue spectrum. If a gardener were to start a young plant under a HPS bulb, she/he would see impressive vertical growth. In fact, probably too impressive. Most plants would grow up thin and lanky and in no time you will have to prune your plant back before it grows into the light fixture. The exception to this is using HPS grow lights in a greenhouse or in conjunction another light source that emits light in the blue spectrum. Light sources that have a high output in the blue spectrum like sunlight and MH grow lights offset any stretching caused by HPS bulbs.

Attached is a light output comparison chart based on 50,000 Lumens.

[harris7]

true, i use a MH during Veg. But one can buy a conversion bulb and get blue spectrum out of their HPS ballast

[Shovelhandle]

Harris, I agree that HPS is more efficient than T5 for budding and produces better results, if the set ups are both right. But the degree of efficiency is more like 93 lumens per watt for 4' 54watt (the most efficient size, as far as I know). 400 watt HPS (the most efficient size AFAIK) will produce as much as 150 Lumens per watt. These two examples are very efficient for lighting and growing. Now, you really have to watch all types of lighting efficiency in regards to Lumens per wat ($$$= efficiency). Some sizes and specific lamp and ballast or transformer types will make big differences.

Ok, then we have the heat factor. Right now I've just begun to use a little HID lights during veg for the "benefit" of the heat. I think if I was commercial I would deffinetly try HPS for flour and flourescent for growing. As I'm just tryin to produce a little bit of weed for cheap, I'm using what's available mostly and getting some good advice on indoor growin here on this website, Thank you all!

Shovelhandle

[harris7]

i would suggest that anyone doing a SOG to get a nice big T5
they create really nice compact plants but only work well while plants are small. up to say 8 inch then the benifits start dropping.

its nice how you can mix the spectrum too by switching one bulb

[deftdrummer]

true, i use a MH during Veg. But one can buy a conversion bulb and get blue spectrum out of their HPS ballast

This is exactly what I do. I have HPS and a MH bulb that I just swap out. Additionally I also have a 4'x2' four bulb T5 lamp that is vegging just one mother. We have only had the T5 for about a month now and the mother plant just got rooted so we have yet to see the full potential of the T5. One thing I can tell you is that after running it 24 hours a day our electricity bill went up about $25 and thats WITH running the HPS 400W lamp on 12/12 as well. My point is that T5s are efficient and cheaper but also more expensive depending on how you look at it. In our case, a meager $25 a month is a small price to pay for having your own chronic.

Oh and by the way, whoever said that HPS lights are more expensive than T5 lights is wrong. I paid $160 for my 4 bulb T5 light and about $125 for our 400W HPS and this is just one example. You can get 600W HPS lights on ebay for $160 quite a bit of a difference between the T5 and HPS

[harris7]

T5's are a lot more the 400W t5 is like 300-400$

[deftdrummer]

uhh, or like $35 difference. Depending on the T5 fixture you get.