Help! What should I do?

[JunkYard]

It would save me money if I could start my seeds under a 400-600 watt MH, but I've heard good things about T5 fluoro's for seedlings and veg. The bulbs are 55 watt each and produce 5000 lumens per bulb which would total 20,000 lumens for a 4 light fixtue, right? I know it would be best to use the fluoros' for seedlings and upgrade to a MH after a couple weeks, but I don't have the money for both, so.. ..

What to do what to do? Should I get the T5 fluoros' for the entire veg cycle, or can I simply start out with a 400-600 watt MH then switch to HPS for flower?

What are the pro's and cons of starting with just a MH?


To break down my options, the fluoros cost $200.00 including shipping + a HPS 400 watt system @ $150.00 total cost= $350.00

Alternative's:

400 watt hps and mh system @ $205.00 including shipping

600 watt hps and mh system @ $315.00 including shipping


I can only spend $350 tops, but would rather spend less, lol! How hard is it to start seedlings under an HID? 400 watt or 600 watt?


Need help.. ..please respond! What would you do?


~Junk~

[BlazenHerbs]

imho, if it were me i would get the 400 or 600 hps and then just a cpl cfls or cheap fluoros'.. start them under the cfls or fluoros' and then move them over :weedpoke:
:twocents:

[JunkYard]

Thanks, Blazen.. ..I would def use the cheaper fluoros' but I figure if I'm going to purchase fluoros' for growing, I want the good ones, ya know?

Better light spectrum = better results, and the T5's last much longer than the T8's and T12's from what I understand.

How many lumens do I need to veg 10 plants to about 12"-14" in height? I've got my eye on these T5's, and would rather use them if they can produce as well in veg as a MH would. I want tight node spacing, and lots of lush growth. If not, I'd rather not waste the money, and take my chances on starting my seeds with 400-600 watt MH system. Bottom line is I want the best possible results w/o over extending my budget. I'm def going to flower with HPS, and it will more than likely be with a 600 watter. I've already decided on a fan @ 449 cfm, and I can make my own scrubber if need be.

I've never grown indoors before, and I want to do it right to start out. That way I won't end up with a bunch of junk if I decide to upgrade. I've got the time to do it right, but I need a good game plan, so I know exacty what I need to get. I've been searchin and asking tons of questions, and to be honest, it's driving friggin crazy! I've got to decide on something and then follow through. I need advice.. ..

My room is 3 X 5 X 6, and I plan on starting 10 seeds and weed out the males when the time comes. I can't spend more than $750.00-$800.00 on my set up, and supplies.. ..including beans, but that 'should' be enough for a decent operation, yes?

[stickylove]

My first grow was entirely CF and FL.
2x75wCFL one blue one red
4xFl mounted vertically in the corners of the closet.
In about the same space as you have, I ended up with 4 happy skunks and 6.8oz. Not a huge yeild. But, the smoke was great. So CFL alone will work/if you have patience, they do take longer. I am on my 2nd grow now and have invested in
3x150 sodium chl in addition to all the cfl and fl. I would say get the cfl and add the MH or SC whenever you get the money.
You should check out you local home improvement stores for lighting, becuase you can get MH flood lights and the reg FL cheaper than ordering them.

[Splifted]

Hey junkyard, you should look into just getting a hortilux bulb for your HPS and forget the mh all together. The hortilux offers enough light in the bluer spectrum to keep the plants from stretching, and you'll save money. You should check out www.hydrowholesale.com (i ordered my 1kw hps from them on a friday, got it that next tuesday)they have good deals on cool tube lights, which is what you should be more worried about. Get an air cooled hood, you will not have heat problems and can keep your light close enough to your plants to max out your yeild.
http://www.hydrowholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=hydro&Category_Code=BAIR

And if you just want the cool tube itself and not the light/ballast, you can get the cool tube for 59 dollars here(it says like 119, but add it to your cart, its on sale):
http://www.marylandhydroponics.com/ht-reflectors.html

If you want to see the results of vegging with CFLs for a bit then vegging and flowering with hortilux superHPS, check out my grow in my sig. Imo, you'd be better off with a cool tube than a switchable ballast, and the hortilux bulbs rule.

[JunkYard]

Very nice grow, splifted. I checked it out a couple days ago and was impressed. You seem to know what you're doing.. ..

I came into some extra money tonight, (woot woot) and I may go with a good 600 watt air cooled HPS light system after all. I'm very happy about this, lol! I'm $1,000.00 richer tonight than I was this morning, and I can now do things the way I want. (After I spend a little on a bag of NL) :D

I saw an amazing grow using an 8 lamp T5 light fixture by ticoblunt today, and decided on a similar 8 lamp T5 system, only the one I ended up choosing is only $310.00 (including shipping), as opposed to being in the 450 + dollar range. I can do most of my vegging with this light, and then add the HPS hortelux you were talking about. I'm bound to get a good yield using both if I keep things in check.

What do you think about hydro wholsale's "Cool Breeze" premium lights? They're not really that much more than the budget cool tube, and they said it cools just as well, and has much better reflection.

I can't wait to get things started, man. I think this is the most exicted I've been it 10 years, lol! :D

Thanks for the info, and help.. ..


Junk~

[Pasofol]

How about a switchable ballast? It'd be the same rating 400 or 600watts.
http://www.hydrowholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hydro&Product_Code=902022&Category_Code=BAL

[faithlessxxx]

You probably should consider practical issues too. Are they vegging in the same room as they'll flower? That could mean dismantling a load of fixtures, and banging new hooks into everything to change to flowering lights. MH is still the best for veg and HPS for flowering. If you've got the money, space and ventilation, ignore the cfl's.

Remember, heat is an issue that needs adressing with these kind of lights, so you may need to fit that in your budget too.

[babystarbud]

just get a HPS sylvania grolux 400-600watt full spectrum bulb....no need to worry about lights ever again!

its easey to start seeds under a HID, just make sure your bulb is a good 2-3-4foot away from the babies(depending how your temps are, and adjust as they grow and as temps allow...
you can even keep them under a single floro or on a windowsil till they develope some decent leafs, then stick em under the HPS.

[JunkYard]

How about a switchable ballast? It'd be the same rating 400 or 600watts.
http://www.hydrowholesale.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hydro&Product_Code=902022&Category_Code=BAL

Yeah, thought about a switchable, but they don't come in 600 watts, so I decided on a cool breeze reflector with a 600 watt HPS ballast, and I'm gonna use a MH conversion bulb for later veg. (After they get about 8 inches)


I'm gonna start them off with a 6 lamp 2' t5 light with 6400k cool bulbs. That way I'll good tight node spacing, and lush green growth w/o heat issues. I was gonna go with an 8 lamp 4' t5, but decided on growing fewer plants. (5 feminized Ultra Skunks)


Junk~

[JunkYard]

You probably should consider practical issues too. Are they vegging in the same room as they'll flower? That could mean dismantling a load of fixtures, and banging new hooks into everything to change to flowering lights. MH is still the best for veg and HPS for flowering. If you've got the money, space and ventilation, ignore the cfl's.

Remember, heat is an issue that needs adressing with these kind of lights, so you may need to fit that in your budget too.


I thought about this post for a while, and decided that you were right about the practicality of such a large T5 fixture. I decided on fewer plants and a 2' 6 lamp T5 fixure instead. Like I said in my above post, I'll start them out with the Fluoros' until they get about 8" tall then switch to MH. I can use the same hooks I used on the 2' fluoros to hang my HID.

One problem I 'will' have is I need to figure out way to mount my Carbon filter, and attatch it to my Reflector for cooling. There's not much room in my grow space, 3 x 5 x 6/7 so I was thinking about mounting it at the high part of my grow room, then run duct from the Carbon filter to my reflector, and on the other side of the reflector to be exhausted outside the room.

Do you think I could keep the ducting and Carbon filter hanging when I use the fluoros'? If not that could prove to be a pain when it comes time to change evreything out.. ..I won't need the Carbon filter in the beginning stages of veg, but I could still use the fan I'm buying (Vortex 449 cfm) to exchange air in the room. It won't take much to take the ducting of the HID, or put it on for that matter.. ..


Junk~

[JunkYard]

just get a HPS sylvania grolux 400-600watt full spectrum bulb....no need to worry about lights ever again!

its easey to start seeds under a HID, just make sure your bulb is a good 2-3-4foot away from the babies(depending how your temps are, and adjust as they grow and as temps allow...
you can even keep them under a single floro or on a windowsil till they develope some decent leafs, then stick em under the HPS.

I don't think I want to use full spectrum for veg, so I'm investing in both fluoros and MH for this stage. I've been thinking about starting with an HID, but I don't want to chance it. I want no stretch, no risk of burning them to death, and tight nodes; this can be accomplished with the fluoros until they get big enough to handle the HID.


Thank God for old friends who pay their debts, lol! If not for him, I wouldn't be able to afford the system I decided on.. :smokin:


Junk~

[faithlessxxx]

Wrong!!! You need an HPS for flowering. The MH is for vegging, like the flours.

[dutch.lover]

I didn't read thru all the posts but I will definitely say that T5s are totally amazing lights. I have a 400w MH and HPS, and a T5. I use the T5 for starting out seeds and clones, and I must say that it's freakin amazing. The plants are super bushy when I grow them under there, compared to the MH. I have never vegged plants for that long under the T5 tho, so I don't know how it would work with a lot more, bigger plants.

Dunno if that helped at all, lol, but just thought I would let you know that T5s kick ass.

[JunkYard]

Wrong!!! You need an HPS for flowering. The MH is for vegging, like the flours.


read up a few posts, and you'll see that I'll be using a 600 watt HPS for flower.. ..The MH is for veg, and the fluoros for starting and seedlings. :cool:

Junk~



Yeah, thought about a switchable, but they don't come in 600 watts, so I decided on a cool breeze reflector with a 600 watt HPS ballast, and I'm gonna use a MH conversion bulb for later veg. (After they get about 8 inches)

[JunkYard]

I didn't read thru all the posts but I will definitely say that T5s are totally amazing lights. I have a 400w MH and HPS, and a T5. I use the T5 for starting out seeds and clones, and I must say that it's freakin amazing. The plants are super bushy when I grow them under there, compared to the MH. I have never vegged plants for that long under the T5 tho, so I don't know how it would work with a lot more, bigger plants.

Dunno if that helped at all, lol, but just thought I would let you know that T5s kick ass.


How tall do you let them get before putting them under the MH?

[dutch.lover]

hmmm well basically once i make room under the MH, i put them under. so I usually only grow them til about 6inches tall... i could totally grow them higher, i just don't have the greatest setup for the T5 right now, so I move the plants under the MH when I have room.

but yeah, i can't emphasize enough the difference between the growth of the plants under the MH compared to the T5. The plants get wayyyyyy bushier under the t5, cause i can have them almost touching the light. they get more stretched out under the MH cause i have to have it kinda far away cause of heat issues, and the larger plants i have in there as well.

[JunkYard]

hey dutch, do you have a grow log here? I'd love to see your results withthe T5's and 400 HID's. :)

Peace,

[dutch.lover]

hmm well i don't have pics of the plants under the t5s at the moment, they are just clones at the moment anyways and looking kinda shitty cause they're new, but i could snap a couple pics of my other plants if you want.

[dutch.lover]

actually, i just took some pics of the T5 clones and all my other vegging plants, i will post them when i load them on my comp...stay with me

[JunkYard]

Don't worry about it.. ..I thought if you had a grow log already posted, I'd check it out. I know ticoblunt uses T5's and has had some madd results, and he used the warm spectrum bulbs for veg. The 6500k's would work even better.


Edit:
actually, i just took some pics of the T5 clones and all my other vegging plants, i will post them when i load them on my comp...stay with me

o.k cool.. .. :thumbsup:

[smokyhaze420]

dude go and buy a 42 watt compact floro or 2 they cost about 10$ a pice but you will thank me later thats what i used for my veg and look at this http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?p=1182769&posted=1
thats what i have now

[dutch.lover]

Ok so here are the pics.

First and second pics are of my vegging plants under my 400w MH.
Third and fourth pics are of newly rooted clones under the T5
Fifth pic is the kind of T5 I have.

[attachment=o111679]

[attachment=o111680]

[attachment=o111681]

[attachment=o111682]

[attachment=o111683]



Notice how much bushier the clones are that are under the t5, and how close the nodes are, compared to the MH. The T5 has shitloads of potential, which I don't use to the fullest, but hopefully you can see the difference.

EDIT: I always forget to rotate my pics...it's a bitch

[JunkYard]

The links aren't working for me. It keeps saying invalid attatchment.. ..


edit: I see them now, lol!

[JunkYard]

Ok so here are the pics.

First and second pics are of my vegging plants under my 400w MH.
Third and fourth pics are of newly rooted clones under the T5
Fifth pic is the kind of T5 I have.

[attachment=o111679]

[attachment=o111680]

[attachment=o111681]

[attachment=o111682]

[attachment=o111683]



Notice how much bushier the clones are that are under the t5, and how close the nodes are, compared to the MH. The T5 has shitloads of potential, which I don't use to the fullest, but hopefully you can see the difference.

EDIT: I always forget to rotate my pics...it's a bitch


They all look good, man.. .. I like the shorter plants, and tighter node spacing, though.

How many lamps is in you new wave? I'm getting a 6 lamp, but it's from a different manufacturer.

[dutch.lover]

haha yeah well i posted, then i went back and edited the pics so they're all rightways up. anyways, eventually i am planning on sticking the T5 in a cabinet of some sort, so that i can grow the plants much bigger under there, and then move them to the MH. Currently, the T5 is in my bedroom, rigged up by having it placed on top of phone books. like i said- not a good setup. At night, i need to cover the light to dim it, which heat stresses my babies like crazy. so ya, new setup definitely needed. lol.

the t5 has got only 4 bulbs in it.

[JunkYard]

You make do with what you got until you can upgrade, right? Seems to be working fine the way it is, though.. ..save heat issues when you cover them.


Peace,