This sucks for those that depend on MOM!!EVERYBODY READ

[BlueCat]

Bush says feds can open mail without warrants!!!!!!

President Bush has "quietly claimed sweeping new powers to open Americans' mail without a judge's warrant," the New York Daily News writes this morning (http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/485561p-408789c.html).
When he put his signature on a postal reform bill on Dec. 20 (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/12/20061220-6.html), the newspaper notes, the president added a "signing statement" that "declared his right to open people's mail under emergency conditions."
The key phrase in that statement:
"The executive branch shall construe subsection 404(c) of title 39, as enacted by subsection 1010(e) of the Act, which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection, in a manner consistent, to the maximum extent permissible, with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances, such as to protect human life and safety against hazardous materials, and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."
According to the Daily News, legal experts say the president's claim is "contrary to existing law and contradicted the bill he had just signed."
White House spokeswoman Emily Lawrimore, though, told the Daily News that "in certain circumstances -- such as with the proverbial 'ticking bomb' -- the Constitution does not require warrants for reasonable searches."
Word of Bush's action follows revelations last year about the National Security Agency's so-called warrantless eavesdropping on telephone and Internet communications.

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL....feel I should make a lil' Mod comment here. This thread is dangerously close:
Threads containing Mail Order M. will be instantly nuked - do not ask about M.O.M.

BUT I feel this is different because it isn't asking about or promoting MOM or a MOM site.......just making a political statement about how the law is going to affect others. I call NO FOUL! :smokin:

Just thought that "maybe" some may question why.......

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[BlueCat]

Didn't even really come close :D Everyone loves Mom. :D

so what do you think of your mail being opened?

[birdgirl73]

I find this troubling. And I'm sure the world's they're-taking-our-freedoms-away conspiracists are just about to fly off the face of the earth with this news. I don't want GWB opening my mail. Heck, he'd have to have the postman read it to him anyway . . . .

[MastaChronic]

ive already said this but i'll say it again

the people of america were given rights in order to over throw the government if it did anything that we didnt like.
this is one of the things that we should fight against.
physically fight, hurt those responsible for this outrage and change it.
the government doesnt control the people; the people control the government although they do a fine job of convincing you otherwise.

[Psycho4Bud]

"The executive branch shall construe subsection 404(c) of title 39, as enacted by subsection 1010(e) of the Act, which provides for opening of an item of a class of mail otherwise sealed against inspection, in a manner consistent, to the maximum extent permissible, with the need to conduct searches in exigent circumstances, such as to protect human life and safety against hazardous materials, and the need for physical searches specifically authorized by law for foreign intelligence collection."

I can appreciate the "exigent circumstances" but would like to see "hazardous materials" a bit more defined. Where is the list? Also, what exactly defines "foriegn intelligence collection"? Are we talking about curbing real terrorists or opening up doors for seed sales, etc....

Good intentions with VERY bad wording.......As written.....thumbs down.:toilet_claw:

By the way, if ya didn't notice this passed the house something like 420-20 and had a unanimous vote in the senate....

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[the yeag]

what's a mom ? you do not meenMAIL ORDER MARIJUANA do you that would get your thread nuked.:jointsmile: who cares anything going through customs gets checked anyway. the secrets will always be avoiding customs and stealth shipping not who is paying attention or even opening your mail.

[medicinal]

Little by little we are losing our freedoms. G.W. Bush has taken more freedoms with his signings than any president in the last hundred years, and yes I'm aware of the Japanese internments. This guy is serious about making this country a dictatorship. If we (the American people) don't insist on impeachment for high treason, we are doomed. He has 2 more years to complete his mission and the gutless democrats are doing nothing to stop him. We need 3-10 million people parked in DC bringing that city to a standstill, untill impeachment proceedings begin! If ever a president deserved Impeachment, this dude is on the top of the list. How many more of our constitutional freedoms are we willing to give this asshole? They used to only open Jail mail! Speak up or lose your freedom!

[Psycho4Bud]

Completely amused. LOL.....Bush this Bush that, DAMN:

This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The totals were: 410 Ayes, 20 Nays, 3 Present/Not Voting.
View Members' Votes (roll no. 430)

Dec 8, 2006: This bill passed in the House of Representatives by voice vote. A record of each representative's position was not kept.

Dec 9, 2006: This bill passed in the Senate by Unanimous Consent. A record of each representative's position was not kept.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-6407

It's not like he makes up laws and stamps them without any form of checks and balances.........where's the House vote? Senate vote? I don't give a rats ass if the dude/dudette is Dem. or Rep., there IS a House vote and Senate vote and it looks like both pushed this in bigtime!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Hagbard Celiene]

I just want to hear bush pronounce "exigent circumstances." and i think at the heart of the issue is that he added something on to the bill as he was signing it into law, circumventing the checks and balances.

[andruejaysin]

Good intentions with VERY bad wording......No, a wording written quite well by those with very bad intentions. Do you think they were perhaps written by someone without legal training who failed to grasp the implications? I find that unlikely.

[Psycho4Bud]

I just want to hear bush pronounce "exigent circumstances." and i think at the heart of the issue is that he added something on to the bill as he was signing it into law, circumventing the checks and balances.

There is no line item veto but you feel that there is a line item addition? Please feel free to check out the Conspiracy Forum and state your case.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[medicinal]

This bill passed in the House of Representatives by roll call vote. The totals were: 410 Ayes, 20 Nays, 3 Present/Not Voting.
View Members' Votes (roll no. 430)

The bill as passed was not the issue, in fact the bill actually re-inforced the privacy of the first class mail. It was Bushs' signing statement that he attached to the Bill after passing! Congress had no news of this and certainly would not have passed it had they known beforehand, unless it is already too late for freedom, then we're all fucked. You can't sit back and blame congress for this one,(although lord knows there's plenty to blame) , this is entirely on The Bush!

[Dutch Pimp]

...if you don't want your mail opened...you have to use the right stamp...:)..

[VaporDaddy]

As an outsider(Canadian) looking in(to U.S.A.) I have to say I think your country was founded on some brilliant and beautiful ideas but I think those ideas have been abandoned by the power hungry, control freaks. America used to represent the hope of freedom for the rest of the world. It no longer does. From my perspective this is frightening.

[andruejaysin]

^^Try seeing it from ours.

[Hagbard Celiene]

yeah, id like to personally appolgize for our f**ked-in-the-head president ruining the rest of the world...

[BlueCat]

As an outsider(Canadian) looking in(to U.S.A.) I have to say I think your country was founded on some brilliant and beautiful ideas but I think those ideas have been abandoned by the power hungry, control freaks. America used to represent the hope of freedom for the rest of the world. It no longer does. From my perspective this is frightening.

I agree....it is very frightening!!

[Torog]

Howdy BlueCat,

'They' are looking hardest at anything coming into America,from outside of our borders..that how I got in trouble,first was a gift from the nederlands,then gifts from canada.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[medicinal]

'They' are looking hardest at anything coming into America,from outside of our borders..that how I got in trouble,first was a gift from the nederlands,then gifts from canada. Have a good one !
Thats definently not good! what ever happened to our constitutional rights? Has the govt. (Bush-Cheney) done away with them? Well not all of them yet, but they're working on it!

[BlueCat]

Howdy BlueCat,

'They' are looking hardest at anything coming into America,from outside of our borders..that how I got in trouble,first was a gift from the nederlands,then gifts from canada.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:


Um Torog are we agreeing this is a bad thing? I am confused?

As for things coming into the US, Customs has always had the ability to check package content nothing has changed there. This new executive order is for domestic mail. I have no doubt in my mind this law will be abused. Most laws are at some point. It is just another violation of our civil rights and it is wrong. Best "have a good one" while you can we are losing more and more of our freedoms by the day. :(

Are we agreeing on this subject...I...I....feel faint :D

[HinduKush83]

I think its ridiculous for the Feds to open your mail in the name of security. It will just lead to more thefts in the mail by underpaid and overworked postal employees.

[BlueCat]

I think its ridiculous for the Feds to open your mail in the name of security. It will just lead to more thefts in the mail by underpaid and overworked postal employees.

You can say that again...I knew this guy that worked for the post office and he got high and was telling me how he could take a pencil stick it in the corner of an envelope and roll a bill up and work it out. He targeted birthday cards and graduation cards because they usually had cash...

I never like that guy....what a creep. Being poor is no excuse to steal.

[Zimzum]

I say we mail each other some pepper seeds and oregano. Pack it just like a real mom just to mess with them. :jointsmile:

[BlueCat]

I say we mail each other some pepper seeds and oregano. Pack it just like a real mom just to mess with them. :jointsmile:

I like that idea!!:D Better yet pepper corns soaked in hemp oil!

[andruejaysin]

SWIFS found a chemical supplier in china willing to custom synth a kilo of n,hydroxy n,methyl alphamethylphenethylamine hcl, but with these fuckers looking through our mail he doesn't have the balls to order it.

[BlueCat]

I am afraid I am strictly a weed person I don't know what that is andruejaysin :D

[Hagbard Celiene]

i believe that is a form of extacy

[andruejaysin]

It's actually a meth analog, the ecstacy version is in pihkal, called FLEA, oddly enough. Pretty sure a kilo of either would get you more than a customs letter, despite the fact neither is a controlled substance. Analog laws allow the DEA to make something a defacto controlled substance without any vote by congress. Not sure how that can be constitutional, but when has that ever stopped them?

[Hagbard Celiene]

I believe the argument goes that something that has no other legal perpose or there are at least alternatives to legal perposes, that can be used in creating an illegal substance, hence the big deal with cold medicines removing sudo-effedrin from their formula, or being placed behind the counter, and ID required for purchase.

[andruejaysin]

To be an analog a chemical must meet three criteria-
1 Be chemically similar (in structure) to a controlled substance
2 Have affects similar to the controlled substance
3 Be sold for human consumption
This last requirement was used as a loophole by a few enterprising guys who are now in a federal prison for most of the rest of their lives.
There are still enterprising guys in countries beyond the reach of the DEA which will send you some very interesting things.

[Torog]

Um Torog are we agreeing this is a bad thing? I am confused?

As for things coming into the US, Customs has always had the ability to check package content nothing has changed there. This new executive order is for domestic mail. I have no doubt in my mind this law will be abused. Most laws are at some point. It is just another violation of our civil rights and it is wrong. Best "have a good one" while you can we are losing more and more of our freedoms by the day. :(

Are we agreeing on this subject...I...I....feel faint :D

Howdy Blue Cat,

Lol..it could be that we're agreeing..certainly,I reckon that the DEA and goverment dudes,like the one that visited me,but never showed me his badge or id,love being able to snoop-even more than they already were.

However,there does need to be a balance and over-sight,to ensure that our freedoms ain't being abridged by these measures,which so far-knock on wood-have resulted in no more attacks on our soil.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

[GrowRebel]

Howdy Blue Cat,

Lol..it could be that we're agreeing..certainly,I reckon that the DEA and goverment dudes,like the one that visited me,but never showed me his badge or id,love being able to snoop-even more than they already were.

However,there does need to be a balance and over-sight,to ensure that our freedoms ain't being abridged by these measures,which so far-knock on wood-have resulted in no more attacks on our soil.

Have a good one ! :jointsmile:

Well Torog .... looks like we are almost in agreement too .... at least you are concerned about rights, but I'm afraid my friend they are already being abridged.

Torog .... we would have never have had an attack on our soil if not for this illegitimate regime.

If not being too personal .... why the hell is the DEA calling on you? Not because of weed is it? I'd have to see a badge if some DEA creep came calling on me.

You don't think this is a form of oppression from our government spending our tax dollars to put us growers and the sick in jail because of a plant that never killed anyone?:confused:

Looks like the others from MH boards are afraid of the tough crowd here. You seem to be the only one willing to take em on! :rastasmoke:

Too bad .... they have way too cool emoticons here ...
:rastabong: :chainsaw: :joint1: :hippy: :Tomcat:

If you have any kind of pull there .... tell em we need them!