US Iraq death toll 'hits 3,000'

[Great Spirit]

Just keep on praising a warlike fascist nation that sends its people to die for control and oil. Hmm....almost 1000 US soldiers dying each year in the name if fascism and oil. Great price guys!!

May God bring judgment against Amerika....The Whore of Babylon!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6221805.stm

The death of a Texan soldier in Baghdad brings the total number of US troops killed in Iraq to 3,000, independent groups tracking casualties have said.

The US Defence Department confirmed that the soldier was killed by small arms fire in the capital last week.

The announcement came on the final day of 2006 and as the US military reached the end of the deadliest month for its troops in Iraq for two years.

The US president is considering the future strategy for troops in Iraq.

The figure was calculated by an independent website, Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, and by the Associated Press news agency.

The Pentagon confirmed the death of 22-year-old Dustin R Donica on 28 December as previously unreported.

"Every loss is regretted and there is no special significance to the overall number of casualties," Lt Col Mark Ballesteros said.

The BBC's Jonathan Beale, in Washington, says this grim milestone comes at a critical time for Mr Bush as he prepares to unveil a new strategy in Iraq, which may include increasing the number of soldiers on the ground.

[Bong30]

we have lost just over 3000 great americans.......

They killed 3500 in one shot.......9-11 remember?


We are doing great.


Some of the battles in WW2 we lost 50k at a time......

Remember liberalism is a mental disorder.......say it a few times and take your meds.

[Great Spirit]

we have lost just over 3000 great americans.......

They killed 3500 in one shot.......9-11 remember?


We are doing great.


Some of the battles in WW2 we lost 50k at a time......

Remember liberalism is a mental disorder.......say it a few times and take your meds.Ok Michael Savage!! I will give you the same speech I gave BirdGirl and you many times.

CLAIMING YOUR ENEMIES ARE MENTALLY ILL IS A TRADEMARK TACTIC IN FASCIST NATIONS!!!!!!

And I don't know where you get the idea that things are going well in Iraq. I think its you who should see a doctor and have him treat your delusional mental disorder belief that Amerika is advancing freedom.

And about 9/11...when you say "THEY KILLED", I am hoping you are referring to the US government.

Read the article "14 Points Of Fascism" on the bottom. Remember Bong...there's still time to become a free thinking liberal!! ;)

[birdgirl73]

In your case, GS, our claim of your mental illness is based on actual reality--and if you'd like, I'll see about faxing you an official diagnosis from my med school psychopathology professors--rather than our having been granted status as nations. You know this, and you've even admitted that your family has questions about your mental health. You just like to scream "fascist" now because it's your new mantra to replace "conspiracy."

[Krogith]

we have lost just over 3000 great americans.......

They killed 3500 in one shot.......9-11 remember?


We are doing great.


Some of the battles in WW2 we lost 50k at a time......

Remember liberalism is a mental disorder.......say it a few times and take your meds.

Bong it's FACT that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Then it changed to WMD's , and NONE were found.

Even tho you don't think the US did 9/11 to themself you do have to understand that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

[Great Spirit]

Bong it's FACT that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. Then it changed to WMD's , and NONE were found.

Even tho you don't think the US did 9/11 to themself you do have to understand that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.Won't matter what you tell this character. He's convinced that all liberals are mentally disturbed and that we should invade any country that has a different policy from the US. Indeed, he believes in a Fascist New American Century!

Face it...Bong30 is a cheap stinky version of Sean Hannity!

[Great Spirit]

In your case, GS, our claim of your mental illness is based on actual reality--and if you'd like, I'll see about faxing you an official diagnosis from my med school psychopathology professors--rather than our having been granted status as nations. You know this, and you've even admitted that your family has questions about your mental health. You just like to scream "fascist" now because it's your new mantra to replace "conspiracy."I've really had it up to here with your fascist birdlike squawking! You are a simple Amerikan sheep and then some!

BG...I do have yet one question for you. Since you believe that Muslims hijacked airplanes and Tim Osman...I mean Osama bin Laden was responsible for the 9/11 attacks.....please tell me why there are people standing near the impact at the Pentagon while the wall has not fully crumbled????!!!!! Hell, you believe it was hit by a plane carrying loads of jet fuel...so in theory...the whole place should look like Gehenna, yet its not and it only made a 16ft hole!!

Smells like fascism to me!!!!!! Be careful when you try to fuck with me....you'll get the horns! ;)

Please refer all other fascist comments to my secretary! The doctor is taking a vacation!

DAMN I'M GOOD!!!! :D :D :D :jointsmile: :jointsmile: :jointsmile: :p :p :p

[birdgirl73]

I know you've seen your warning and re-reviewed the rules at my insistence, GS. Please be aware that your thread containing the Saddam video was deleted, as it was last night from another member. That falls under rule 10 in our forum rules, no disturbing or explicit pics. That video is available all over the Web for people who want to see it. This is not the place for those visuals. If you'd like to push your luck with a response to that decision, this post, or any other personal insult, feel free to go for it. That'll be it for you, as I warned you just a few minutes ago with your infraction. If you want to maintain your membership here, it might be wise for you to take a break for a few hours and come back when you're calmer.

[Great Spirit]

I know you've seen your warning and re-reviewed the rules at my insistence, GS. Please be aware that your thread containing the Saddam video was deleted, as it was last night from another member. That falls under rule 10 in our forum rules, no disturbing or explicit pics. That video is available all over the Web for people who want to see it. This is not the place for those visuals. If you'd like to push your luck with a response to that decision, this post, or any other personal insult, feel free to go for it. That'll be it for you, as I warned you just a few minutes ago with your infraction. If you want to maintain your membership here, it might be wise for you to take a break for a few hours and come back when you're calmer.Posting a response to this does not and cannot equal banning whatsoever! I would very much like to get some information on your higher ups or managers so I can speak to them about this unfair and ridiculous infraction. I would like the information in the next 24 hours please. Thank you!

[birdgirl73]

That'd be the owner, Sundance, and he'll see your comments and complaints here. He's seen them before and, in case you didn't realize this, he backs his moderators.

[Great Spirit]

That'd be the owner, Sundance, and he'll see your comments and complaints here. He's seen them before and, in case you didn't realize this, he backs his moderators.I hope he does see my comments and I think its a mistake for him to back up his moderators.

May I have his email address so I can write him a personal message please?

[birdgirl73]

Of course you believe it's a mistake, GS. No surprise there. You always feel that way over the course of your many infractions and bans. But I'm afraid your record is against you, and that's tallied clearly on your profile for Sundance and any of the other mods to see.

You're going to have to trust that he will see your complaint here because he doesn't make his email address available even to us, the mods. We write him when we need to through the PM system available to the mods on this board. He typically frequents the Feedback and Suggestions forum more frequently than he does politics, and Ericwt is correct in suggesting that this needs to go there. I will move this thread there if you prefer. But you may want to be aware that another mod may come delete it later, as they've done with your previous complaints. (I will not delete it, just as I didn't delete your previous complaints there about me or others.)

One thing you need to be very keenly aware of is that what's most likely to happen is that another mod or Sundance will come online, read this exchange, read your increasingly frenetic posts since your most recent return, look at your record of 14 active infractions, and then ban you himself.

[Great Spirit]

Of course you believe it's a mistake, GS. No surprise there. You always feel that way over the course of your many infractions and bans. But I'm afraid your record is against you, and that's tallied clearly on your profile for Sundance and any of the other mods to see.

You're going to have to trust that he will see your complaint here because he doesn't make his email address available even to us, the mods. We write him when we need to through the PM system available to the mods on this board. He typically frequents the Feedback and Suggestions forum more frequently than he does politics, and Ericwt is correct in suggesting that this needs to go there. I will move this thread there if you prefer. But you may want to be aware that another mod may come delete it later, as they've done with your previous complaints. (I will not delete it, just as I didn't delete your previous complaints there about me or others.)

One thing you need to be very keenly aware of is that what's most likely to happen is that another mod or Sundance will come online, read this exchange, read your increasingly frenetic posts since your most recent return, look at your record of 14 active infractions, and then ban you himself.Do what you have to do, however truth can never be killed!! I hope you will understand this.

I am going to read your comments when the next planned terror attack happens shortly so the USA can invade Iran and Syria. God I just can't imagine what you or Bong or Psycho will write and I will sit there and laugh my ass off saying "TOLD YOU SO!!!" I really want to see that before I hang myself after the next attack. I refuse to be tortured.

[birdgirl73]

I'm going to do that now, and you can spread your truth someplace else for tonight. You have 14 active infractions, and I'm breaking the rules by not enforcing them against you as we do against others, frankly. Twelve is the maximum for permanent banning. I've asked you to take a break so you can cool down, but you are incapable of doing that. Rest assured that Sundance and the other mods will see this and can reverse this decision if they see fit.

[Jimbob1310]

Do what you have to do, however truth can never be killed!! I hope you will understand this.

I am going to read your comments when the next planned terror attack happens shortly so the USA can invade Iran and Syria. God I just can't imagine what you or Bong or Psycho will write and I will sit there and laugh my ass off saying "TOLD YOU SO!!!" I really want to see that before I hang myself after the next attack. I refuse to be tortured.

boy he really went on a suicide mission with that last comment, like the people that scream threats right before theyre hung.

[Lucifuge]

we have lost just over 3000 great americans.......

They killed 3500 in one shot.......9-11 remember?


We are doing great.


Some of the battles in WW2 we lost 50k at a time......

Remember liberalism is a mental disorder.......say it a few times and take your meds.

What about the 20,000+ injured? The only reason Americans aren't dying in mass numbers is because we can get them to a medic fast enough.

On a similar note, roughly 16,000 Americans are murdered every year in the US. Although you're more likely to die in Iraq. If the media "advertised" the 40 murders that happen a day here, like they're doing in Iraq. The US would seem like the scariest place in the world.

[Bong30]

What about the 20,000+ injured? The only reason Americans aren't dying in mass numbers is because we can get them to a medic fast enough.

On a similar note, roughly 16,000 Americans are murdered every year in the US. Although you're more likely to die in Iraq. If the media "advertised" the 40 murders that happen a day here, like they're doing in Iraq. The US would seem like the scariest place in the world.

No shit....

Hear is proof of the left leaning media...weaking our resolve to win.

Do we need a daily body count?

they use it as a tool....fucking assholes

Dateline Iraq...another 5 great brave american were killed today in Iraq....(should we even be there) Implied.....

they dont report on the insurgents killed.......of the schools going up, just dead americans.

[Bong30]

Bong it's FACT that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

I agree....it has every thing to do with Radical Islam and terrorist supporting countries


Then it changed to WMD's , and NONE were found.

I agree...they thought they had WMDs cause he used them in The Iran Iraq war and then he shipped them out.......They were just trying to get the regular american behind the war, cause most average american are to ignorant on the subject.
Even tho you don't think the US did 9/11 to themself you do have to understand that Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11.

Iraq did have nothing to do with 9-11, radical Islam had everything to do with it....




See krogith we went there so they would attack us there insted of here, and we needed positioning on IRAN.....

look at map and what is between Iraq and afganistan? ill let you look

[Krogith]

See krogith we went there so they would attack us there insted of here, and we needed positioning on IRAN.....

look at map and what is between Iraq and afganistan? ill let you look

Read Romans 12:17-21 Bong

You sound like Hitler "Kill all the Muslims" there all terrorists right?

All people have extremists. Just because you Scream War war does that mean all USA thinks the same? Because 1 person blows them self up they all want to?

Your not God and neither is the USA, you really think You or the USA can fix whats going on? Then you Claim to be Christian? Do you even follow the Bible? From what you Scream I do Not think so.

War will bring Death and Hate. Your War with Iran "That is comming" Will end in more suffering and Alot More Hate.

The USA has Created Muslim Extremists in Iraq with the War. More than there was and with a Real Cause. USA has made a Mess and in Iran it will be Worse. More from USA will die for what?

No matter what You Do or the USA does everyone in the World will have access to a Nuke Sooner or later. How are you ever going to Stop that? You wont, and No MAN or Man made Goverment will Succeed in this.

Hate to tell you but Big Business is running these Wars, Because War is Big $$

You send people to die for $$, and False Hopes of some Peace that will never come. There will always be Hate with a Man run world. You'll never win these Wars and Never Turely have Peace.

On a side note do you realize that we have enouf food to feed the world but it's because of Big Business that holds the food back from POOR Starving People? There are over 1,000,000,000 (thats a Billion) People who goto Sleep Malnutrishioned every day. Greed and Money will always Make Wars and Keep people Hungry.

Your Wars will not stop and Guess what! Every time they get bigger and more people Die. 4.4 million died in the 18th century, 8.3 million in the 19th century and 100 million in the 20th century ALL From War. How many will die in the 21st? Your way will make it go 10X's again thats 1 Billion, is that your Goal?

Read the Passage in Romans please Bong

Your Hate will Cause people to Hate you More, Show Love it has the Most Power.

[medicinal]

Hate to tell you but Big Business is running these Wars, Because War is Big $$
Now there's the truth of the whole matter. This is a for profit war and will not stop untill the profit factor dries up!

[BlueCat]

Hate to tell you but Big Business is running these Wars, Because War is Big $$
Now there's the truth of the whole matter. This is a for profit war and will not stop untill the profit factor dries up!

This is so true....they throw all this conspiracy stuff out there to confuse people. George H.W. Bush sold weapons to Iran...even though all trade was off because they were holding Americans hostage. I don't know how they are able to just sweep Iran contra under the rug!

We sold weapons to Saddam too and we sold them in central and south America. Its all about arms deals.

[BlueCat]

Great Spirit you need to take 10 breaths dude...you just said you hope there is another terrorist attack just so you get to say I told you so....that's pretty sad.

SO here are a couple to websites I just know you will love....you can chill.....do you ever read 10 zen monkeys? They just did a great job with American fascism....you have to read this...
http://www.10zenmonkeys.com/2006/11/28/is-it-fascisoum-yet



And this is good from bushflash if you guys haven't seen it yet...its a pretty good example of how I feel about the whole Saddam affair....

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html

[Ozarks]

George H.W. Bush sold weapons to Iran



No, he didn't.




I don't know how they are able to just sweep Iran contra under the rug!


It wasn't, it the #1 story for 6 months, hearings on TV and Bush 41 wasn't President

[BlueCat]

No, he didn't.




It wasn't, it the #1 story for 6 months, hearings on TV and Bush 41 wasn't President

Yes he did and unless you can prove other wise PLEASE SHUT UP.

Why the hell do you think little Bush has worked so hard to keep those records sealed from the American public?
Tell me WHY is he doing this? Right now any info on Iran could help us but are the records being leased? NO!!!
I suggest you read more on the Iran contra. There have been numerous leaks suggesting not only did bush sr. make deals with Iran he did it behind Carters back which amounts to treason that is why little bush is hiding the records. It is no secret that Bush Sr. arranged to trade weapons for the release of the hostages. He even asked them to WAIT on releasing the captured Americans until Reagan was sworn in so that it would look better for he and Reagan. WOW that is really looking out for his fellow Americans!

December 30-31, 2006 -- SPECIAL REPORT. The Bush Family may believe that with the execution of Saddam Hussein their involvement in illegal dealings with the Iranian Revolutionary Government in the wake of the downfall of the Shah will be secretly buried along with Saddam, the former CIA asset and U.S. agent of influence in the Iraq-Iran War.

Although much has been written about George H. W. Bush's and former CIA director William Casey's pre-1980 U.S. presidential election maneuverings with the government of Ayatollah Khomeini to keep U.S. embassy personnel in Tehran as hostages until after the election (thus preventing an "October Surprise" of a hostage release that would benefit President Jimmy Carter), little has been written about the mysterious disappearance of a U.S.-flagged cargo ship that, according to our intelligence sources, was on a secret and unofficial trip to Iran and possibly carrying a weapons shipment agreed to between Bush and Casey and Iranian representatives in Paris in October 1980. According to classified Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) cables between the DEA in Washington and Scotland Yard in London, the ship, the SS Poet, may have been involved in a hijacking and the subsequent swapping U.S. cargo for Iranian heroin but that may have been a crafty cover story to throw off investigators.

In early 1981, the Camden (NJ) Courier-Post obtained copies of the DEA cables and a statement from a high-level source stating that the Poet's crew was taken hostage by Iran and that the hijacking of the ship was carried out by members of the Gambino crime family in New York. The disappearance of the Poet came at the same time 52 U.S. embassy hostages were being held in Iran. During the 1980 election campaign, George H. W. Bush and Reagan campaign manager Bill Casey reportedly traveled to Paris to meet with representatives of the Khomeini regime and offered them weapons if they agreed to hold the U.S. hostages until after the November election. The Iranians agreed to do so and the hostages were released on January 20, 1981, as Reagan was being inaugurated. At about the same time, the DEA cables showing a link between the Poet's disappearance and an illegal U.S.-Iran transactions involving the mob were released to the Courier Post.

then there is the weapons he sold to Saddam....

A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the "human wave" attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.

But I am not suprised I mean Bush's grandfather was actually CHARGED by the US government with treason for selling arms to Hitler...it seems the fruit does not fall far from the tree...

President George Walker Bushâ??s grandfather (Prescott Bush) and great grandfather (George Herbert Walker) were among Wall Streetâ??s ultra-right wing elite. Before WWII, they were among the key players who coordinated the flow of investments from American multimillionaires into Germany. They profited by helping to coordinate the American financing behind Hitlerâ??s rise to power. During the war, they even profited from companies that armed the Nazi war machine and used slave labour at Auschwitz. Then, after the war, Prescott Bush was instrumental in helping to launder Nazi loot for Fritz Thyssen, who was one Hitlerâ??s earliest and richest industrialist backers.
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html

His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1312540,00.html

SO PLEASE OZARK if you want to say I am wrong that is fine but you need to back up what you are saying... simply saying its not true won't cut it. Read the facts then state your opinion WITH LINKS. Otherwise your opinion isn't worth shit.

Thanks
Cat

[BlueCat]

Bush is blocking the scheduled release of documents under the Presidential Records Act of 1978, which mandates that all but the most highly sensitive documents are to be made public twelve years after a President leaves office. Under the PRA, Ronald Reagan's papers were supposed to be released last year.
On January 20, 2001, the first batch (68,000 pages) of Reagan's papers, mostly notes from meetings with advisers and internal White House memos, came up for routine release. It should have come off without a hitch--after all, presidential libraries have for years been releasing documents informally. But the new Bush Administration, fresh from its own Florida election controversy, took advantage of a PRA clause allowing a thirty-day presidential consultation, and thus began what turned into a grand stall. By last August, half a year had passed and still nothing had been released.
This raised suspicions. Since the law already exempted the most sensitive documents from disclosure, why did the Bush Administration have to review the rest for what it said were national security purposes? "It's pretty fishy," says Anna Nelson, an American University history professor who works with a number of scholarly and historical organizations on presidential papers access. "The precautions on 'national security' are extreme. These are not Iran/contra papers."
Nelson surmises that many officials in the current Administration (including Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld) were authors of the twelve-year-old memos that are now being blocked: "They probably don't remember what they said, and they are feeling iffy about it." Meanwhile, George W. Bush is now deciding which papers of his father's, former President George H.W. Bush, will be released, beginning on January 20, 2005.


After September 11 the Administration had virtual carte blanche to stall any and all document releases, and it did so boldly [see Bruce Shapiro, "Information Lockdown," November 12, 2001]. In November Bush issued an executive order that declared that not only could a former President assert executive privilege over his papers against the will of the incumbent President (a measure Reagan instituted just before he left office) but that a sitting President could also block the papers of a predecessor, even if that predecessor had approved their release.
The implications of this change are breathtaking. "The bottom line is that secrecy prevails in every situation when at least one party wants it," says Mark Rozell, a political science professor at the Catholic University of America and a leading scholar on executive privilege.
The Bush Administration, in full Orwellian swing, has dubbed its executive order "Further Implementation of the Presidential Records Act," as if it were designed to enhance public access. According to White House spokesperson Anne Womack, "This really didn't change anything." The order, she says, is "just about procedure. It doesn't talk about when, how or why." At the time the order was signed, press secretary Ari Fleischer said it would mandate a "more orderly process.... As a result of the new law that is now going into effect, and thanks to the executive order that the President will soon issue, more information will be forthcoming."

http://www.russbaker.com/The%20Nation%20-%20Why%20are%20they%20hiding.htm

[BlueCat]

Amazing how these arm chair soldiers support WAR no matter what the military is saying. I think all supporters of this war need to get their cowardly asses over there and fight it themselves!

The American military — once a staunch supporter of President Bush and the Iraq war — has grown in creasingly pessimistic about chances for victory.
For the first time, more troops disapprove of the president’s han dling of the war than approve of it. Barely one-third of service members approve of the way the president is handling the war, ac cording to the 2006 Military Times Poll.
When the military was feeling most optimistic about the war — in 2004 — 83 percent of poll re spondents thought success in Iraq was likely. This year, that number has shrunk to 50 percent.
Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The president’s approval rating among the military is only slight ly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bush’s handling of the war. While ap proval of the president’s war lead ership has slumped, his overall approval remains high among the military.
Just as telling, in this year’s poll only 41 percent of the military said the U.S. should have gone to war in Iraq in the first place, down from 65 percent in 2003. That closely reflects the beliefs of the general population today — 45 percent agreed in a recent USA Today/Gallup poll.
Professor David Segal, director of the Center for Research on Mil itary Organization at the Univer sity of Maryland, was not sur prised by the changing attitude within the military.
“They’re seeing more casualties and fatalities and less progress,” Segal said.
He added, “Part of what we’re seeing is a recognition that the in telligence that led to the war was wrong.”

http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006_main.php

[Psycho4Bud]

People like GS give liberals a bad name...

Honestly, 3,000 troops isn't much compared to previous death tolls, but then again, we have a MUCH smaller military now compared to then.


Look, we need to back the fuck off from Iraq (sending more troops in is a very bad idea, just ask the joint chiefs of staff) and start using unconventional warfare. Black ops, you know? You can't fight disorganized guerillas with conventional warfare, you have to infiltrate and destroy them from the inside!

My two cents...

I'll be damned.....we agree again. Our current job is to make sure the current government remains stable and to train their troops for the mission. More people on the ground isn't going to be the answer....they have to do it through their military.



Only 35 percent of the military members polled this year said they approve of the way President Bush is handling the war, while 42 percent said they disapproved. The presidentâ??s approval rating among the military is only slight ly higher than for the population as a whole. In 2004, when his popularity peaked, 63 percent of the military approved of Bushâ??s handling of the war. While ap proval of the presidentâ??s war lead ership has slumped, his overall approval remains high among the military.

35% approve.....42% disapprove....23%??? Sorry, that 7 point differential don't mean shit. ANY election projection would NEVER make a conclusion with a 23% undecided vote.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[BlueCat]

Keep living the fantasy Psycho if it makes you feel better.

NEVER EVER in history has the military posted a poll like this that means something also look at who is speaking out!

The poll also asked senior military leadership....

Give it up Psycho you are wrong on this one. Its ok to be wrong you know a lot of Americans bought into this war and have admitted their mistake. Its a bigger man that admits hes wrong :)

[Psycho4Bud]

Its a bigger man that admits hes wrong :)

I would....if we were.....but we weren't.......so I'm not.:D

I am, he is, you are, he is, you are me and we are all together..........that just popped in my head...sorry!

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[BlueCat]

I am, he is, you are, he is, you are me and we are all together..........

HAHAHAHA you are sounding more and more like dummy rummy everyday :D

[Psycho4Bud]

I am, he is, you are, he is, you are me and we are all together..........

HAHAHAHA you are sounding more and more like dummy rummy everyday :D

Rummy got his quotes from The Beatles? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZb6miNQyYM)

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[Ozarks]

Yes he did and unless you can prove other wise PLEASE SHUT UP.


Although much has been written about George H. W. Bush's and former CIA director William Casey's pre-1980 U.S. presidential election maneuverings with the government of Ayatollah Khomeini to keep U.S. embassy personnel in Tehran as hostages until after the election (thus preventing an "October Surprise" of a hostage release that would benefit President Jimmy Carter), little has been written about the mysterious disappearance of a U.S.-flagged cargo ship that, according to our intelligence sources, was on a secret and unofficial trip to Iran and possibly carrying a weapons shipment agreed to between Bush and Casey and Iranian representatives in Paris in October 1980.




This lie was put to bed 20 years ago, even the New York Times did a story saying this never happened







According to classified Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) cables between the DEA in Washington and Scotland Yard in London, the ship, the SS Poet, may have been involved in a hijacking and the subsequent swapping U.S. cargo for Iranian heroin but that may have been a crafty cover story to throw off investigators.

In early 1981, the Camden (NJ) Courier-Post obtained copies of the DEA cables and a statement from a high-level source stating that the Poet's crew was taken hostage by Iran and that the hijacking of the ship was carried out by members of the Gambino crime family in New York. The disappearance of the Poet came at the same time 52 U.S. embassy hostages were being held in Iran. During the 1980 election campaign, George H. W. Bush and Reagan campaign manager Bill Casey reportedly traveled to Paris to meet with representatives of the Khomeini regime and offered them weapons if they agreed to hold the U.S. hostages until after the November election. The Iranians agreed to do so and the hostages were released on January 20, 1981, as Reagan was being inaugurated. At about the same time, the DEA cables showing a link between the Poet's disappearance and an illegal U.S.-Iran transactions involving the mob were released to the Courier Post.[/align]




Again, all of this has been debunked years ago. I'm surprised that in all your "RESEARCH" that that part of the story slipped by you.




then there is the weapons he sold to Saddam....

A review of thousands of declassified government documents and interviews with former policymakers shows that U.S. intelligence and logistical support played a crucial role in shoring up Iraqi defenses against the "human wave" attacks by suicidal Iranian troops. The administrations of Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush authorized the sale to Iraq of numerous items that had both military and civilian applications, including poisonous chemicals and deadly biological viruses, such as anthrax and bubonic plague.


And this proves Bush (41) sold weapons to IRAN how ?




But I am not suprised I mean Bush's grandfather was actually CHARGED by the US government with treason for selling arms to Hitler...it seems the fruit does not fall far from the tree...

President George Walker Bushâ??s grandfather (Prescott Bush) and great grandfather (George Herbert Walker) were among Wall Streetâ??s ultra-right wing elite. Before WWII, they were among the key players who coordinated the flow of investments from American multimillionaires into Germany. They profited by helping to coordinate the American financing behind Hitlerâ??s rise to power. During the war, they even profited from companies that armed the Nazi war machine and used slave labour at Auschwitz. Then, after the war, Prescott Bush was instrumental in helping to launder Nazi loot for Fritz Thyssen, who was one Hitlerâ??s earliest and richest industrialist backers.
http://coat.ncf.ca/our_magazine/links/53/53-index.html



His business dealings, which continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act, has led more than 60 years later to a civil action for damages being brought in Germany against the Bush family by two former slave labourers at Auschwitz and to a hum of pre-election controversy.

Again, it proves Bush (41) sold weapons to IRAN how ?




SO PLEASE OZARK if you want to say I am wrong that is fine but you need to back up what you are saying... simply saying its not true won't cut it. Read the facts then state your opinion WITH LINKS. Otherwise your opinion isn't worth shit.
Thanks
Cat

Try google.com, the truth is Bush (41) never sold weapons to "Iran" as VP or President.

Casper Wienburger and Oliver North, were running Iran-Contra.

[nikweiser]

were not going to get rid of insurgency.. its not like the guys killing americans are part of a military we are going to wipe out.. this war is going to keep on going.. those insurgents are regular people like you and me... defending there country..
think about when we say shit like "man if us ever got invaded id bunker up in my house and snipe mother fuckers and shit" etc.. well we are invading there hometown, using 50 cals and shooting all over the place were bullets and bombs hit innocent civilians every day...
most of the insurgents have lost there families and are on the last straw and are just like fuck it and kill themselfs and take out as many us troops as they can..
i respect the middle east and the people over there. we need to get the fuck out and let there country be there country

[nikweiser]

dont get me wrong, they have bad guys like algayda and whatnot.. but a lot of the killings are from guys like that

[BlueCat]

Really Ozark it is you that lacks research skills....NEWS FLASH its been resurrected! Of course it was buried I guess you missed the part where I said little Bush has done his best to hide the evidence....

Why would he do that Ozark? Why hide the records? hmmmmm

Iran/contra: 20 years later and what it means
2007-01-02 <---- you might want to note the date of this article

http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=26944

Again you say what I am posting is a lie but you are not posting any proof as to why you feel it is. It has not been debunked because it is true.

You are telling me you do not believe Bush was involved in the Iran contra scandal?

Then you really are brain washed...what about Abrams was that "debunked" as well? Man I want one of those debunking machines!!

Elliott Abrams, an assistant secretary of state under Reagan, pleaded guilty in 1991 to two counts of withholding evidence from Congress (i.e., lying) over his role in the Iran-Contra affair. Bush I pardoned him; Bush II has appointed him to the National SecurityCouncil as director of its office for democracy, human rights and international operations.


Gee I wonder why he was pardoned? hmmmmmm

Maybe you should review tell me why did congress pass the Boland amendment, which cut off most military aid to the Contras?

Why did the Reagan administration circumvented Congress and popular outrage by waging a covert war and raising money for the Contras from private and foreign sources. One of the "neat ideas" Oliver North and his cronies concocted was to funnel profits to the Contras from the secret sale of U.S. arms to Iran--which was under embargo after seizing Americans as hostages. The discovery of this and other illegal schemes is what led to the Iran-Contra scandal,

Now who was vice president THEN?? Debunk that.

the New York Times finally got around to addressing the reappearance of so many Iran-Contra figures in the administration. A piece by Christopher Marquis led with an insider description of some of the Iran-Contra cold warriors clustered at a party, smirking over the controversy their nominations have raised and dismissing concerns over their suitability as "the other sideâ?¦still fighting the old battles."

That is NOT debunking.

And I posted the FACT that Bush sr. sold WMDs to Saddam and the Fact that Bush's grandfather sold weapons to hitler to show a pattern in the Bush family. I guess that part escaped you. I notice you did not dispute either...

Bush sr. sold weapons to Iran...it is the truth. You have yet to post anything proving me wrong. Again put up or shutup I don't like being called a liar.

[medicinal]

This is the worst president in a hundred years and maybe ever! G.W. Bush - Our Third Worst President
Ranking presidents, especially the worst, can be done by a number of different criteria. If you look at how unqualified they are, Harding would probably top (or is it bottom) the list. But I think the need for competency is a major criteria. In other words, how bad did a president's ineptitude hurt the U.S.

For Harding and many others, they did not have the opportunity to seriously damage the country, no matter how inept they were. If not for 9/11 G.W. Bush would have probably gone down on the lower end of the list (mainly for his damage to the economy), but not near the bottom.

The Worst
Without question this is Buchanan. Maybe no one could stop the Civil War at that point - both sides were hardening in their positions. But his behind the scenes support for the Dred Scott decision, as well as many other actions, poured aviation fuel on the fire. And he made no effort to stop secession or actively protect federal supplies. This time, and Washington to Jefferson were the two times the country could have disintegrated. With Washington, Adams, and Jefferson we had statesmen who while not perfect, did a superb job of keeping the country together. With Buchanan we had someone who helped push the country from disagreement to war.
This is a closer call but I think Hoover was clearly worse than G.W. Bush. The depression could have led to almost anything. Probably not a breakup of the country, but we could have easily gone down the road of fascism, communism, or some unique form of populism. In any of these cases, it would have almost certainly meant a harder life for the people in this country and who knows what would have happened in WWII. Hoover was completely unwilling to realize that the depression was so unprecedented that it required trying new things. (In this way he is much like Bush in his unwillingness to learn.)
G.W. Bush is clearly third. I cannot think of another president (other than the two above) that has done anywhere near as much damage to this country. And unlike the first two, his ineptitude has damaged many other countries - although that may be more a function of the global economy. (And Smoot-Hawley under Hoover did help worsen the global depression). Taking away the political differences I have with Bush and concentrating just on his competence we have:
He has trashed the U.S. economy. The economy has not grown because of his economic program, but in spite of it. Clinton left him the biggest surplus in history and he has turned it into a series of ever larger record deficits. He has made fixed entitlements worse with his drug plan while failing to address the biggest problems with existing entitlements (medicare & medicaid) and with social security had a proposal that would have put people more at risk while increasing cost. It's a sad day when the Democrats are the party of fiscal sanity.
He has heavily damaged the moral standing of the U.S. with the war in Iraq. Not quite as much as Vietnam, but close. And much of this stems not from the decision to attack, but the unbelievable gross incompetence with which the wars was prosecuted. Standing by as the entire country was looted - with it all in living color on everyone's TV. Not realizing that the Abu Ghraib torture needed to be addressed quickly and with people at the very top fired was a disaster across the world.
He has left this country defenseless. The Katrina disaster was the one we have faced so far. But the lack of security for chemical plants, ports, the food supply - in fact everything. Like everything else in his administration, politics determined funding so Wyoming got a ton of money and countries with lots of targets, which tend to be Democratic, got almost nothing. We will be attacked, there will be more natural disasters, and Bush has done nothing to stop it.
He has violated the civil rights which is one of the core principals of what makes America Amercia. When citizens can be spied upon and imprisoned at the whim of the president, then we are no longer a democracy. We are a dictatorship. Granted we are not in a Stalinist police state. But he has gone beyond a balance of power to say he as President can do anything he wants to do and the only limit on his actions is his own self restraint.
He has taken the political sphere and pushed it to the bottom. Granted he has had lots of help here and it started with the Republican assault on Clinton. But Bush/Cheney/Rove have done their best to make our political system as divided as possible. And those Democrats who do reach out tend to get screwed so bad, that there is no second time.
He has shown an incredible inability to learn from his mistakes. Reagan & Clinton were masters at evolving their efforts as they learned on the job. They weren't perfect, but they improved on the job. The job of president requires that there be a constant effort to improve based on learning what works and what doesn't. Bush for whatever reason (his faith, an overprotective mother, a staff that won't tell him things aren't perfect) - seems totally incapable of learning. In his world there are no mistakes.
I could go on but I don't see any need to list out more. History will speak, first in 10 - 20 years, and then with more authority in 50 - 100 years. And when it does, G.W. Bush will go down as one of our worst presidents. The only questions is will he be 3rd worst. I will admit I might be wrong and he will turn out to be worse than Buchanan. Only time will tell.

The Best
This is easy - Washington, Lincoln, and Roosevelt (FDR) in chronological order. Close seconds - Adams (1st), Jefferson, Jackson, Roosevelt (Teddy), & Truman. As to anyone post-Kennedy, it's too soon to say. And yes, Wilson is purposely left off this list.

[Ozarks]

Really Ozark it is you that lacks research skills....NEWS FLASH its been resurrected! Of course it was buried I guess you missed the part where I said little Bush has done his best to hide the evidence....

Why would he do that Ozark? Why hide the records? hmmmmm
Iran/contra: 20 years later and what it means
2007-01-02 <---- you might want to note the date of this article

http://www.athensnews.com/issue/article.php3?story_id=26944


It means that some of people who gave testimony are still alive, and parts of whats on the record is still classified, there is something that they don't want the Iranians to know (like you our friends are, who spied for us in Iran etc.) the US Archives receives requests and postpones releasing Classified material everyday.
The people wrote your article know this, and they assumed (correctly) that you wouldn't. So they could get away manipulating you into believing this.

Ted Kennedy demanded that the US Archives wait 75 years before releasing all its files on the JFK shooting, What do you think he's hiding ?




Again you say what I am posting is a lie but you are not posting any proof as to why you feel it is. It has not been debunked because it is true.

You are telling me you do not believe Bush was involved in the Iran contra scandal?




There are no web sites for obvious reasons that say "Bush41 didn't sell weapons to Iran" I also couldn't find a web site that said "Blue Cat didn't sell weapons to the Iranians" Hmmmm.





Then you really are brain washed...what about Abrams was that "debunked" as well? Man I want one of those debunking machines!!

Elliott Abrams, an assistant secretary of state under Reagan, pleaded guilty in 1991 to two counts of withholding evidence from Congress (i.e., lying) over his role in the Iran-Contra affair. Bush I pardoned him; Bush II has appointed him to the National SecurityCouncil as director of its office for democracy, human rights and international operations.


yes, all six of them were pardoned, All six never denied what they did because they all believed it was legal, there was no coverup then or know, none of them ever said Bush was part of it.




Gee I wonder why he was pardoned? hmmmmmm


Explaining those pardons, Bush said the "common denominator of their motivation -- whether their actions were right or wrong -- was patriotism." They did not profit or seek to profit from their conduct, Bush said, adding that all five "have already paid a price -- in depleted savings, lost careers, anguished families -- grossly disproportionate to any misdeeds or errors of judgment they may have committed."




Maybe you should review tell me why did congress pass the Boland amendment, which cut off most military aid to the Contras?

Why did the Reagan administration circumvented Congress and popular outrage by waging a covert war and raising money for the Contras from private and foreign sources. One of the "neat ideas" Oliver North and his cronies concocted was to funnel profits to the Contras from the secret sale of U.S. arms to Iran--which was under embargo after seizing Americans as hostages. The discovery of this and other illegal schemes is what led to the Iran-Contra scandal,

Now who was vice president THEN?? Debunk that.


Yes, after 6 months of hearings in a DEMOCRATIC CONTROLLED CONGRESS
Bush was not accused of anything, He wasn't even named as an "unindicted co-conspirator" the Government can name you and not have to prove anything. The entire US Government missed it, but you know the truth.



Fact that Bush's grandfather sold weapons to hitler to show a pattern in the Bush family. I guess that part escaped you. I notice you did not dispute either...

It didn't escape me, you repeat this nonsense because you think (selling weapons) it's part of his DNA ?

[xblackdogx]

600,000 dead IRAQI civilians. Millions of lives devastated.

War lords are being appointed by the gov't in power in Iraq. Every Iraqi currently has AN EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO BE KILLED.

btw, i saw the REAL current state of Iraq from a special on FREE SPEECH TV (on dish network)

[Lucifuge]

People like GS give liberals a bad name...

Honestly, 3,000 troops isn't much compared to previous death tolls, but then again, we have a MUCH smaller military now compared to then.


Look, we need to back the fuck off from Iraq (sending more troops in is a very bad idea, just ask the joint chiefs of staff) and start using unconventional warfare. Black ops, you know? You can't fight disorganized guerillas with conventional warfare, you have to infiltrate and destroy them from the inside!

My two cents...

What we need to do is send in the fuckin Marines to kick down every door like they did in Fallujah in 2004. In 2 months, the Marines turned Fallujah into one of the safest cities in Iraq.

[nikweiser]

ya along with the massacre they left behind

[psychocat]

What we need to do is send in the fuckin Marines to kick down every door like they did in Fallujah in 2004. In 2 months, the Marines turned Fallujah into one of the safest cities in Iraq.


It's gungho BS like this that makes me wonder what the fuck some people are smoking.
The answer is to get the US military where it belongs ,, on US soil. Bush is a maniac and his policies have brought about a lot more deaths than Saddam or Al Quieda are responsible for.
Put a major arms dealing family in the white house then start a few wars and watch profits soar for said family. MMMMMMMMMM Couldn't happen :cool:

Just as Britain discovered with the IRA it's damn hard to protect yourself when you don't know who the enemy is.

Would the poster also use the same way to deal with homegrown good old fasioned American terrorists ?
Sweep New Jersey with military, going house to house booting in doors ,beating up, raping and killing those they think aren't co-operating?

Crazy MoFo

[Lucifuge]

It's gungho BS like this that makes me wonder what the fuck some people are smoking.
The answer is to get the US military where it belongs ,, on US soil.

Well, that was my first option but that just isn't going to fucking happen now is it?


Just as Britain discovered with the IRA it's damn hard to protect yourself when you don't know who the enemy is.

Research what the Marines did in 2004... Under 100 Americans Soldiers dead, 1500+ Insurgents killed, 1000 captured.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0208/p01s02-woiq.html


Would the poster also use the same way to deal with homegrown good old fasioned American terrorists ?
Sweep New Jersey with military, going house to house booting in doors ,beating up, raping and killing those they think aren't co-operating?

Crazy MoFo

If thousands of terrorists were hiding out in Jersey, planting IED's on the side of the road, set off car bombs in the middle of the street, sniping US troops like cowards, etc. If it came down to it, then yes. But tell me, other then full withdrawal of US troops, what would YOU do about the situation in Iraq?

[Psycho4Bud]

The answer is to get the US military where it belongs ,, on US soil. Bush is a maniac and his policies have brought about a lot more deaths than Saddam or Al Quieda are responsible for.

going house to house booting in doors ,beating up, raping and killing those they think aren't co-operating?


The 1980-88 Iran-Iraq war left 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqis and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead. Saddam Hussein ordered the invasion and destruction of Kuwait in 1990-91 with 1,000 Kuwaitis killed. Directed the 1991 bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a insurgencies in northern and southern Iraq with at least 30,000 to 60,000 killed. he later ordered the destruction of southern marshes to extinguish the Shi'a insurgency
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/iraq/saddam.htm

"We've already discovered just so far the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves," said British Prime Minister Tony Blair on November 20 in London. The United Nations, the U.S. State Department, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch (HRW) all estimate that Saddam Hussein's regime murdered hundreds of thousands of innocent people. "Human Rights Watch estimates that as many as 290,000 Iraqis have been 'disappeared' by the Iraqi government over the past two decades
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html

Here's some numbers just from Saddam........quite the tally to overcome, you got your work cut out for ya to prove your theory. Just remember, I still have the Al-Quada numbers to add on.

Why the hell is it that these dictators always get the sympothy card in here and the U.S. is the big bad monster? Next time a natural disaster wipes out half a country maybe we should stay "on U.S. soil" and do like these precious dictators and say fuck it.

Can't wait to see the links for the U.S. genocidal attacks in that region.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[daima]

Just keep on praising a warlike fascist nation that sends its people to die for control and oil. Hmm....almost 1000 US soldiers dying each year in the name if fascism and oil. Great price guys!!

May God bring judgment against Amerika....The Whore of Babylon!
--------------------------------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6221805.stm

The death of a Texan soldier in Baghdad brings the total number of US troops killed in Iraq to 3,000, independent groups tracking casualties have said.

The US Defence Department confirmed that the soldier was killed by small arms fire in the capital last week.

The announcement came on the final day of 2006 and as the US military reached the end of the deadliest month for its troops in Iraq for two years.

The US president is considering the future strategy for troops in Iraq.

The figure was calculated by an independent website, Iraq Coalition Casualty Count, and by the Associated Press news agency.

The Pentagon confirmed the death of 22-year-old Dustin R Donica on 28 December as previously unreported.

"Every loss is regretted and there is no special significance to the overall number of casualties," Lt Col Mark Ballesteros said.

The BBC's Jonathan Beale, in Washington, says this grim milestone comes at a critical time for Mr Bush as he prepares to unveil a new strategy in Iraq, which may include increasing the number of soldiers on the ground.

The loss of wildlife, our oceans, etc etc, due to oil spills is also a loss we must talk about and do all we can to stop. Our health problems, or many of them, can be linked to oil and other fossil fuels

dai*ma:stoned:

[Psycho4Bud]

ya along with the massacre they left behind

Massacre? What a JOKE! It's a real massacre when you warn a town of invasion, allow people to have a designated time to gather belongings and leave the city with minimal checks and no interm camps. OH NO! We killed insurgents and terrorists....WHAT A MASSACRE!!!:rolleyes:

Maybe we could have just dropped in some machettes so they could have kept on be-heading those that didn't follow their beliefs.

DAMN I love the left. Defend against the death penalty in the U.S. but also defend those that be-head innocents in other regions.

Have a good one!:jointsmile:

[daima]

This is so true....they throw all this conspiracy stuff out there to confuse people. George H.W. Bush sold weapons to Iran...even though all trade was off because they were holding Americans hostage. I don't know how they are able to just sweep Iran contra under the rug!

We sold weapons to Saddam too and we sold them in central and south America. Its all about arms deals.

nothing new.
we sold steel to the soviet union who then turned it into weapons to be used on our troops in Vietnam.
American corporations are allowed to do business with our "enemies", while the business they are engaged in kill Americans.

dai*ma:stoned:

[Lucifuge]

Welcome to capitalism daima.

[medicinal]

What we need to do is send in the fuckin Marines to kick down every door like they did in Fallujah in 2004. In 2 months, the Marines turned Fallujah into one of the safest cities in Iraq.
I think we ought to send them to your neighborhood, kick a few doors etc. Tell me, WTF would you do if this country was invaded, would you try and kill the invaders? It really galls me that some Americans think they are so superior to citizens of other countries that they can't put themselves in their position and imagine what they would do in their circumstances, I think this is called unmittagated ignorance. You know and I know that if the situation was reversed, we'd both be sniping foriegn invaders at every chance. Wake up, we've unjustifiably invaded a soveriegn nation and the citizens don't approve. what makes us the only country on the planet allowed such travesties?

[medicinal]

Honestly, 3,000 troops isn't much compared to previous death tolls, but then again, we have a MUCH smaller military now compared to then.Not unless it was your son, brother, daughter, mother, father, cousin, uncle, friend, or some other acquaintance, then it would be one too many. People that talk like it's only 3,000 deaths are talking out their asses, let one of them be someone they love and watch the turn-around

[Lucifuge]

I think we ought to send them to your neighborhood, kick a few doors etc.

I'm so deserving because I have an opinion that you disagree with right?


Tell me, WTF would you do if this country was invaded, would you try and kill the invaders?

Of course I would.:D


It really galls me that some Americans think they are so superior to citizens of other countries that they can't put themselves in their position and imagine what they would do in their circumstances, I think this is called unmittagated ignorance.

Ok, smart guy. I'll ask you the same question I asked Psychocat. Other then
full withdrawal of US troops, what would YOU do about the situation in Iraq?


You know and I know that if the situation was reversed, we'd both be sniping foriegn invaders at every chance. Wake up, we've unjustifiably invaded a soveriegn nation and the citizens don't approve. what makes us the only country on the planet allowed such travesties?

The citizens? Or a few fucktard radicals that want to keep things the way they were before Saddam was removed? And last I checked, Israel "unjustifiably" invaded Lebanon last year. But we can't be bothered with what they're doing can we?

[andruejaysin]

But tell me, other then full withdrawal of US troops, what would YOU do about the situation in Iraq?I would turn dick cheney over to the iraqis for trial on crimes against humanity. That would make interesting TV.

[BlueCat]

I would turn dick cheney over to the iraqis for trial on crimes against humanity. That would make interesting TV.

How bout I bring the popcorn and we can watch it together :D

Ozark...you are firmly set on believing whatever your government tells you so I am really wasting my time debating you. If you believe the people in the Iran Contra scandal were innocent and just doing their patriotic duty then I am afraid the kool-aid has already saturated your brain. You should be able to find something saying Bush Sr. was innocent in the Iran contra scandal if it were true. It isn't. You really should not call someone a liar when you can't provide evidence to the contrary. Bush was the vice president for gods sake wake up.

You honestly think that they did not profit from the arms deal? Who do you think profits when weapons are sold? Who owns stock in those companies?

And NO selling weapons is not part of his DNA that's pretty dumb...its part of the Bush bank account why is that so hard to believe? I will try once again to explain it. Bush the grandfather sold weapons and profited. He was charged with treason, Bush Sr. was involved on a arms sale scandal....but we are suppose to believe he is innocent?
And under the present day Monkey Bush more weapons have been sold than EVER before in history and most of them have gone to the middle east! Just what they need more weapons to use on our soldiers.

And as for releasing the papers...I am fully aware of the FOIA I have filed 2 of them. Bush is not holding the papers until a later date. In case you missed it he passed a law that makes those papers tied to his daddy the property of the family so they will never be released to the public. PERIOD. Never. Now isn't that convenient? Those are historic documents. They are part of America's history. We have the right to see them but under this new law the papers will be the property of the Bush twins!

I suppose you believe Dick Cheney doesn't profit from Halliburton either...give me a break.

Why don't YOU do some research

The Arms Transfers Database
Database of all transfers of major conventional weapons since 1950

Financial value of the arms trade
Government and industry data on the financial value of arms exports

http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/at_data.html

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/BigBusiness.asp#Thearmstradeiscorrupt

[BlueCat]

# The United States has agreed to sell to the United Arab Emirates advanced 80 F16s. The deal is estimated to be around 15 billion dollars. However, in return, the US will be able to build military bases there with improved access to the only deep-water port capable of housing carriers in the Persian Gulf. In this particular example, there are also concerns about the resulting stability in the region and the possible arms race it could start with the neighbors.

# Many weapons are also sold to Turkey. These have been used against the Kurds, in what some have described as the worst human rights violations and ethnic cleansing since the second World War. The US turns a blind eye to these atrocities because they are able to set up bases in such a key geopolitical location, giving access to places in the Middle East, and because Turkey could be one of the main receivers of oil headed to Western countries, from the Caspian sea.

# There are also many arms trade-related interests in the Middle East. By having pro-US monarchies and other regimes (not necessarily democracies) at the helm and promoting policies that often ignore democracy and human rights, arms deals are often lucrative and help continue US foreign policy objectives.

# Furthermore, the Middle East is the most militarized region in the world procuring more arms than anywhere else.

IT IS WRONG TO SELL THESE WEAPONS. YOU CAN"T BITCH ABOUT MASS GRAVES AND PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED WITHOUT LOOKING AT WHO PROVIDED THE WEAPONS IN ORDER FOR THE KILLINGS TO TAKE PLACE!

[daima]

Welcome to capitalism daima.

i know , and have known for 50 years how dangerous capitalism is to the earth and the living things that inhabit it.

dai*ma
i aint no capitalist
i aint no communist
i aint no socialist
I am a human being that cares about my planet and all that call it, home.

dai*ma

[wrasler]

the fact of the matter is, we are committed to iraq now, and it would be worse to pull out sooner than later, leaving the country in an unstable state. my father has spent over two years total in iraq and i would trust his valid opinion of the situation over there better than the news that i see on tv, partially because it is very biased against the conflict. he has stated more than once that a huge majority of iraqi citizens prefer having the united states over there rather than not. this is not to say we should establish a permanent presence in iraq, but that it is in reality a small minority of the population that is against our occupation. saddam hussein a.k.a. the "butcher of baghdad" was a terrible dictator who needed to be removed from his tyrranical and self-serving rule (this is evidenced simply by the golden plated toilet seats in his baghdad palace that my dad saw). whether there were wmds or not, the u.n. was doing nothing to stop his massacring of kurds and shiites. if president bush had committed genocide on an ethnic or religious group of our country, i have no doubt about the uproar that would follow. forget meaningless u.n. sanctions, he would have immediately been taken from power and executed for crimes against humanity.
my basic point in this is, that you should forget why we went there right now. focus on what is before us and what needs to be done. hindsight 20/20.

[wrasler]

IT IS WRONG TO SELL THESE WEAPONS. YOU CAN"T BITCH ABOUT MASS GRAVES AND PEOPLE BEING SLAUGHTERED WITHOUT LOOKING AT WHO PROVIDED THE WEAPONS IN ORDER FOR THE KILLINGS TO TAKE PLACE!
sorry to say this, but the chief source of illegal arms comes from the former soviet union. the most recognized AND used small arm is the ak-47. the collapse of the ussr led to widespread proliferation of nuclear weapons, not from sales by the united states.

[BlueCat]

sorry to say this, but the chief source of illegal arms comes from the former soviet union. the most recognized AND used small arm is the ak-47. the collapse of the ussr led to widespread proliferation of nuclear weapons, not from sales by the united states.

I just hate it when people make comments and do not back up what they say!!! sorry but YOU ARE WRONG!

Post your evidence I want to see it. :mad: :mad:


According to the report, "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1994-2001," released on August 8th, the United States has had the largest share of both new contracts and deliveries to the world for at least 8 years in a row. In calendar year 2001, U.S. arms manufacturers made new agreements worth $12.1 billion and delivered $9.7 billion worth of arms, capturing 45% of both markets.
The United States' closest competitor, Russia, came in a distant second with $5.8 billion in new contracts and $3.6 billion in arms deliveries. But Russia is not a real rival for U.S. arms makers. Its main clients are China and Iran, off limits to U.S. firms, and former Soviet bloc states in Asia and Africa that cannot afford expensive U.S. weapons systems. India, on the other hand, may be one place where Russian and American firms go to battle over a large market. In September 2001, the U.S. government dropped a ban on arms sales to both India and Pakistan, permitting transfers even during the height of the crisis between these nuclear-armed states. India is a longtime major Russian client. When making a case to loosen export controls, U.S. weapons makers usually cite intense competition from Western European firms. But this claim is also belied by the CRS figures. New contracts signed by the top four European exporters combined (France, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Italy) only totaled $4.5 billion, and deliveries were only worth $5.1 billion.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/library/articles/tamar_commondreams_02.html

And if you want to talk NUCLEAR

The Ford administration -- in which Cheney succeeded Rumsfeld as chief of staff and Wolfowitz was responsible for nonproliferation issues at the Arms Control and Disarmament Agency -- continued intense efforts to supply Iran with U.S. nuclear technology until President Jimmy Carter succeeded Ford in 1977.
That history is absent from major Bush administration speeches, public statements and news conferences on Iran.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3983-2005Mar26.html

In November 1987, as the Reagan administration was still scrambling to contain the Iran-Contra scandal, then-deputy CIA director Robert M. Gates denied that the spy agency had soft-pedaled intelligence about Iranâ??s support for terrorism to clear the way for secret U.S. arms shipments to the Islamic regime.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2006/112306.html

[Lucifuge]

I just hate it when people make comments and do not back up what they say!!! sorry but YOU ARE WRONG!

Post your evidence I want to see it. :mad: :mad:


According to the report, "Conventional Arms Transfers to Developing Nations 1994-2001," released on August 8th, the United States has had the largest share of both new contracts and deliveries to the world for at least 8 years in a row. In calendar year 2001, U.S. arms manufacturers made new agreements worth $12.1 billion and delivered $9.7 billion worth of arms, capturing 45% of both markets.

Dude the Soviet Union fell in 1991, try again.

[BlueCat]

Dude the Soviet Union fell in 1991, try again.


Ummm are you backing me up or wrasler...its confusing because you quoted me but said dude you're wrong....

But if ya got my back then *big kiss to ya* :D