Question for Bible believing Christians

[hazetwostep]

As a Bible believing Christian, what is the reasoning you follow to justify smoking marijuana in a country that it is illegal to do so? This is in light of the Bible clearly stating that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey him.

[MastaChronic]

im not a bible thumping christian, buuuuuuuuuut, jesus said "it is not what goes into the mouth of the man that defileth the man, but what comes out of the mouth of the man that defileth him.".......or something like that, and he was refering to cannabis eaters

[RichieRich]

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. And friend.... Pot is not Caesars

[Herbal]

What kind of god would make pot and then tell you not to smoke it?
None that I know of. I never read "Though shall burnith in hell for puffing thy Jay."
Besides, church is waaaay better high. IMO.

[VOYAGER]

A story in Exodus tells of how the egyptian ruler commanded the death of all males born (a law of that time) the midwives did not listen to their gov, and knew that it was wrong to kill even though that was their orders. God noticed this action and rewarded the women for doing right in His eye and not the laws.
God given laws are not the same as man made laws.
If all the rulers of the world set laws for evil intentions, would that make it right to sin?

[Captain Hanks]

As a Bible believing Christian, what is the reasoning you follow to justify smoking marijuana in a country that it is illegal to do so? This is in light of the Bible clearly stating that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey him.
What if they outlawed believing in Christ as your Lord and Savior. What about Daniel; who went against the law of the land by praying to God instead of the king or whatever. Surely there are exceptions; and cannabis smoking is definetally one of them. As it is through cannabis we are called Christian's (annointed ones) directly refering to the Holy Annointing Oil of Israel in wich every Christ, Messiah, High Priest, and King was required to be annointed with; along with the Aaronic priest hood. This oil was to be poured into the incense alters wich filled the tents with smoke; and this oil contained 6-9 pounds of cannabis known as "kaneh-bosm" in the original Arhamaic bibles and then the Hebrew but was mistranslated as "calamus" wich is a poison in Greek.:rasta:

[smoke it]

didnt jesus use hash oils?

[MastaChronic]

jesus was the first hippie, he smoked weed.

[hazetwostep]

(again this is specifically for "Bible believing" people)
so are you all saying you don't think god cares that you are breaking the law? or you are saying that law is no longer applicable in this day? it was not clear from the posts...

from all i have read the bible is very clear, all throughout, not just one verse, about obeying authority. what would make this law an exception to that?

as for the question about if your government is asking you to sin... well that is another topic completely as they are asking you to not smoke, not asking you to do something wrong.

(please don't take this as being antagonistic... i believe in the wisdom of the bible completely, and just find this a challenging issue to ignore as smoking is a regular part of my life and is illegal where i live)

[hazetwostep]

also, some people are confusing the angle. the angle is NOT asking if the act of smoking weed is immoral. i don't believe the bible says anything about it being immoral and i bet jesus did smoke weed. i don't think he was as boring and religious as most people portray him.

the angle is coming from the fact that it is illegal to do so and that violates core biblical issues of authority, obedience, rebellion, etc.

[VOYAGER]

Correct me if i'm wrong but, isn't it against the law or just school politics to not teach religion in school. One example of the law demanding us to turn our backs on our heritage. Maybe that is why the world is in the downward spiral that it is. A form of mind/population control. Choose God or the Government? All inteligent life knows the difference between right and wrong, we don't need laws to tell us which is which. I feel the majority of laws are for control purposes in order to benifit the lawmaker, not the good of humanity.

[RichieRich]

Haze...The best thing I could tell you is that with many things in life there is not a clear right or wrong answer. What I would suggest is that you live your life as best as possible with the morals / values that you hold to be true. And when you make a mistake you say sorry, learn, and try to do better the next time. By being thankful and joyful and happy, you will be better off than most people.

[VOYAGER]

Most stories in the Bible tell of in one form of another the Persection of Gods people by the government of that time. (evil)Man has always wanted the control of power. To create a law that would go against Gods intentions would be the smartest thing an evil person could do (if in fact we had to obey all laws) I like RR's answer, live life the best you can in Gods eyes not the laws.

[hazetwostep]

first off seperation of church and state is a completely different topic but it also does not ask us to turn our backs on our heritage. it is simply protecting the freedom of religion for everyone. if we allowed prayer to jesus in schools, would that be fair for muslims or jews? in communist china they would ask you to turn your back on religion, not here. here we have the freedom to gather for religious reasons in school, public, anywhere... it is just not going to be organized by the schools.

richierich,

well before you can say that there is not a clear answer, you would have to explain how the clarity of obeying authority and laws are not clear in the bible... that is what i am trying to find out if anyone can find one...

[harris7]

. i don't think he was as boring and religious as most people portray him.


your right about something...

[hazetwostep]

unitedwefall...
sorry for playing devli's advocate but... does that mean if i believe that heroin is ok then it is fine to ignore the law banning it? do we all get to decide which one's have their place and which one's don't...?

[Bob the Awesome]

I am not a Bible-tought Christian, but I talk and am around many.

From how it seems, Christians, like most groups, are OK with laws when they work with their beliefs. As the other guy said, ban Christianity and it'd be OK to go against the laws.

Whether or not Christians listen to the government is most likely going to be a political/personal choice, not a religious one, although it will be stated as such. One must know, however, that laws are made by humans and are therefore fallible.

[Captain Hanks]

I was actually the first to comment it being ok for Christians to go against the law of banning Christianity (Daniel and the lions den).

Anways, heroin is a completly different subject. Like the strong wine of the old testament; there are both positive and negative views in the bible concerning it. Bottom line, use don't abuse (if abuse with cannabis is possible).

[hazetwostep]

I can understand if the law was asking you to do something unbiblical... but if it is asking you to refrain from an unnecessary behavior??? I see a big difference...

if you suddenly start saying there is room for exception due to personal opinion doesn't that open a pretty big door? there are people who can casually use harder drugs like coke and all... would that be alright for them? i have a friend who will do coke like a few times a year...

also, the reason i specified "bible believing" is because that intails people who would go by the commandments the bible states... not just made up exceptions that they see fit (i dont mean that rudely or saying you are wrong for doing it, just different then the mainstream definition of "bible believing"). from that perspective one would need to soundly defend a stance through scripture and not personal opinion... as we can change anything by personal opinion. ya know? there would need to be some scripture stating that if you disagree with a law you could disobey. but i probs won't bump into many peeps like that on here!!! :) pepople with this habit don't tend to be too publicly mainstream in church!

[MastaChronic]

I can understand if the law was asking you to do something unbiblical... but if it is asking you to refrain from an unnecessary behavior???...!

worshipping some invisible man in the sky that protects you from evil is not a necessary behavior

[hazetwostep]

master...

no need to throw in irrelevant and degredating remarks towards other people's beliefs.. let's stay on topic

[Captain Hanks]

I can understand if the law was asking you to do something unbiblical... but if it is asking you to refrain from an unnecessary behavior??? I see a big difference...

if you suddenly start saying there is room for exception due to personal opinion doesn't that open a pretty big door? there are people who can casually use harder drugs like coke and all... would that be alright for them? i have a friend who will do coke like a few times a year...

also, the reason i specified "bible believing" is because that intails people who would go by the commandments the bible states... not just made up exceptions that they see fit (i dont mean that rudely or saying you are wrong for doing it, just different then the mainstream definition of "bible believing"). from that perspective one would need to soundly defend a stance through scripture and not personal opinion... as we can change anything by personal opinion. ya know? there would need to be some scripture stating that if you disagree with a law you could disobey. but i probs won't bump into many peeps like that on here!!! :) pepople with this habit don't tend to be too publicly mainstream in church!
There is a big difference between opinion and unnecessary behavior. Smoking cannabis isn't just a choice but Gods wish for all Christians. The word Christian itself means stoner. Proof needed?:rasta:

[MastaChronic]

master...

no need to throw in irrelevant and degredating remarks towards other people's beliefs.. let's stay on topic

i am staying on topic, it is, in fact, not a necessary behavior.
breathing is a necessary behavior, whicc brings up another question, if breathing was illegal, would you still do it? it would be illegal and going against you bible because your bible tells you to obey the laws of your land

[hazetwostep]

people keep giving examples of when it is okay to ignore a law... they keep giving examples where the governemnt is asking people to commit a sin...

THIS IS DIFFERENT as the US government is not asking you to commit any sin. asking you to refrain from smoking is not asking you to commit an immoral act or an act that disagrees with the bible. the government saying to kill the innocent like herod commanded, would fall under that. asking you to worship a false idol would fall under that like Sharach, Meshach, and Abednego, and telling you not to pray to God like Daniel was told would fall under that.

breathing air is a necessity of life and cannot be taken. smoking is not so once again it would not relate to that exception!

asking you to abstain from smoking marijuana does not fall under a category of being asked to commit a sinful act by the government.

do you see the vast difference? if the governement asked you to refrain from smoking and the bible commanded you to smoke, that would apply there. as smoking is not a commandment, that exception to the rule does not apply.

[MastaChronic]

if YOU have such a problem with smoking weed then dont do it. i personally think that the bible is a load of bullshit. i live my life guided by the morals that i believe in, not what some bullshit book tells me is right and wrong

[VOYAGER]

How bout this, Who created the law, and why, and who said they were right?
If there is no major point for the law then are we letting people run our country that really shouldn't be. The stories in the bible usually tell of Gods people doing right, but the land that they reside in is usually run by someone that doesn't believe in those ways. So there is this non stop feud between good and evil, right and wrong, unnessesary laws, etc.. etc..
Do you need a law there to tell you that you are about to do something wrong. Something to just give you a line to cross. God said no man shall take the life of another man, yet who killed His son, because the law of that land thought they were doing something right. Then that would mean God created a law to tell man to obey man made laws, and in turn killed his own son because the men who did such were just following the law.

[Oneironaut]

if YOU have such a problem with smoking weed then dont do it. i personally think that the bible is a load of bullshit. i live my life guided by the morals that i believe in, not what some bullshit book tells me is right and wrong

Seriously.

He's right about the Bible being very clear on authority. The Bible is certainly no anarchist's manifesto. This is from the Sermon on the Mount:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
So, according to Jesus, even if the government is compelling you to do something you don't want to do (or compelling you not to do something you want to do), you should comply. Even if you believe the government is acting unjust, and consider the law to be your enemy, you must obey it, for you are to love your enemies and do whatever is asked of you by anybody ever.

Fortunately for us, Jesus was an idiot and most of us know nowadays that it's okay to break unjust laws. If people based their interactions with authority on what the Bible has to say, slavery would still be in practice.

[hazetwostep]

wow oneironaut... go out to the front of this section and read where it says to be respectful!!! thanks buddy... you like 12 or something? think it is cool to bash other people's beliefs??? cool

[hazetwostep]

masterchronic... this question is from the perspective of bible believing people... simple... and i dont have a problem with smoking... i was asking a question that i was curious about...

everyone else..
the thing is nobody is answering from the angle i am asking. i am asking for reasoning of a "bible beliving/following" person in the mainstream sense of the term... this means that one's personal feeling that ignoring a silly law is reason enough for it to be fine, is not enough. i personally agree with that thinking, but the question is asking for answer from a "bible belieiving" (one who believes the bible is god's innerant word to guide our live's during this lifetime)... to justify smoking would require biblical backing that negated or over ruled the issue of it being illegal and therefore rebellious to do. if you are a "bible believing christian" in the mainstream sense of the term you can answer from that angle and please do... otherwise nevermind about this thread

[Oneironaut]

You just lost a lot of my respect buddy. No need for those kind of comments.
Hey, the Bible started it. It called me a fool for saying in my heart that there is no God.

But seriously, Jesus was a complete idiot for saying what he did in the Sermon on the Mount. Saying to people that they should do whatever is asked of them by anybody, do whatever anybody compels them to do, and to give to anybody what they ask for, is idiotic. If we had that kind of mentality, just imagine how powerful the Nazis would be right now. "Oh, you want Poland Hitler? Fine, take it. What's that? You want me to kill the Jews. Sure, if you say so."

[hazetwostep]

we are not talking about it asking you to do unjust things like banning a religion. we are talking about refraining from a hobby! we are not talking about medicinal uses as that has an exception to the law (in some places).

read the initial question carefully!!! everyone is missing it

unitewefall, thanks for backing me up on his uncalled for and immature comment

[hazetwostep]

oneironaut,

that wasn't jesus message. jesus message was of a revolutionary love that would change the world... unfortunately i think the mainstream religion lost that back in the day and made it about unimportant stuff... (my personal opinion)

i love a quote i read of ghandi saying that if christians actually lived the life of love that jesus spoke of that he would become a christian... it was a cool quote

[Oneironaut]

Well, I agree with your interpretation of the Bible. There is no way to justify breaking laws if you believe in the truth of the Bible.

I just happen to believe that there is no God and that the Bible, while it contains some good advice, also contains a good deal of bad advice.

I believe that humanity has actually progressed in its moral thinking during the past two millennia, and learning that it's a good thing to defend yourself is one of the lessons we've been taught again and again. Jesus was just plain wrong. If you don't like your faith being criticized, too bad for you I guess, because Biblical teaching clashes with modern ethics in too many ways to avoid criticism of the Bible's righteousness.

[Oneironaut]

I agree with love and stuff, but you have to deal with the fact that there are lots of non-loving people in the world, who will occasionally try to wrong you. The correct response is to enact justice somehow, instead of being lazy and relying on some fictional god or karma to do it for you. Evil has to be resisted. Not resisting it is tantamount to letting it win.

[hazetwostep]

i agree with your statement for many cases... i believe modern christianity has demasculanized men into pussies for the most part... i believe there is a time to turn the cheak and let things slide... and there are times to stand up and be strong

[Oneironaut]

Well Jesus never said that. He didn't say "Resist not evil, unless it's really really evil like Hitler", and he didn't say "whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also, unless you don't feel like being a pussy today".

I find it rather amusing how often Christians rationalize acting contrary to Jesus' teachings. If I believed there was a text of moral precepts that were thought up by the omniscient creator of the universe, I would take them very seriously! But then again, the Bible is a very difficult text to take seriously...if I tried to follow it I would have no eyes because I lust after girls a lot and Jesus says eye-gouging is the correct solution to that.

[hazetwostep]

actually he taught both. he taught there was a time to turn the cheek and a time to fight back... the scriptures talk about there being a season for everything.. a time for peace and a time for war.

[BlueCat]

I do not interpet the Bible to say I must Obey mans law. You can pick and choose passages to make the Bible say whatever you want.

The Bible also says: "Forgive and You will be Forgiven" "Judge and you will be Judged" "Do to others as you would have them do unto You"

What's more Cannabis was used in biblical times: for clothing, paper, cord, sails, fishnet, oil, sealant, incense, food, and in ceremony, relaxation and medicine.

For so the Lord said unto me, "I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs. For afore harvest, when the bud is perfect and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away and cut down the branches." (Isaiah
18:4-5)

Hemp was used in this country for everything from rope clothes paper oil just like in the Bible until the government found prohibition to be more profitable.

Do you believe God created Marijuana? If not just where did it come from? Herbs are mentioned in the Bible repeatedly.

I don't like it when people talk about Marijuana and hard drugs as if they go together. They don't. There have been studies that prove Marijuana is not A GATEWAY drug. AND There are studies proving its legalization actually lowers the violent crime rate.

There are all sorts of new medical studies being done: MARIJUANA-LIKE COMPOUNDS MAY AID ARRAY OF DEBILITATING CONDITIONS RANGING FROM PARKINSON'S DISEASE TO PAIN

SAN DIEGO, October 26, 2004 â?? No longer a pipe dream, new animal research now indicates that marijuana-like compounds can aid a bevy of debilitating conditions, ranging from brain disorders such as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS) and Parkinson's disease, to pain and obesity.

In past studies, researchers determined that the main active chemicals in the drug marijuana produce a variety of effects by connecting to specific sites on nerve cells, called cannabinoid receptors. Researchers also discovered that these receptors normally bind to natural internal chemicals, dubbed cannabinoids.

â??Understanding how marijuana and the brain's own natural cannabinoid system works is helping researchers design new medicines,â?� says cannabinoid expert Daniele Piomelli, PhD, of the University of California in Irvine.

WASHINGTON, Oct. 13 (UPI) -- Scientists said Thursday that marijuana appears to promote the development of new brain cells in rats and have anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects, a finding that could have an impact on the national debate over medical uses of the drug.

This is nothing NEW patients have been claiming it for years.

Other illegal and legal drugs, including opiates, alcohol, nicotine and cocaine, have been shown to suppress the formation of new brain cells when used chronically, but marijuana's effect on that process was uncertain.

Now, a team led by Xia Zhang of the department of psychiatry at the University of Saskatchewan in Saskatoon may have found evidence the drug spurs new brain cells to form in a region of the brain called the hippocampus, and this in turn reduces anxiety and depression.

Marijuana appears "to be the only illicit drug whose capacity to produce increased ... neurons is positively correlated with its (anti-anxiety) and anti-depressant-like effects,"

http://www.hmnews.org/article2749.html

It is MY RIGHT to use marijuana. My back has been broken in 11 places. I have been on Morphine, oxycontin, viodin you name it.
I have even let them put a 6 inch long needle directly into my spine and pump meds directly into my spinal cord. Nothing helped.

All that happened was I slept all the time and if I was awake I hurt and I vomited non stop from the meds. I also had grand mal seizures. My life sucked big time. I did not have a life. My kids did not have a mom.

Someone suggested I try weed. I had not smoked it for over 20 years. I was in high school when I tried weed for the 1st time and I hated it so I never did it again until a few years ago.

Now I use a vaporizer and smoke weed everyday. I can spend all day awake with my family I never throw up and I no longer have to take Dilantin for seizures. I don't have to take any hard addictive pain killers.

So it is not a matter of breaking mans law it is a matter of my God given right to live and smoke weed. I am not alone there is case after case of people with cronic illness helped by weed.

How dare you throw your misguided interpetation of the Bible around without having done your research. You have not walked in my shoes.

What gives you the right to Judge anyone? GRRRRRRRRRRR :mad:

[BlueCat]

What about the parts of the Bible that actually instructs man to go against the government? What makes you think that marijuana being illegal is right. Why couldn't man's law be wrong? What evidence do you have that the marijuana law is a just one?

In the Old Testament there are a number of prominent examples of civil disobedience. In Exodus 1 and 2, when Pharaoh commanded the Hebrew midwives to kill all male Hebrew babies, they lied to Pharaoh and did not carry out his command.

The book of Daniel has a number of instructive examples. In Daniel 3, for example, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego refused to bow down to the golden image and were cast into the fiery furnace. In Daniel 6 the commissioners and satraps had King Darius make a decree that no one could make a petition to any god or man for thirty days. Daniel nevertheless continued to pray to God three times a day and was cast into the lion's den.

The most dramatic example of civil disobedience in the New Testament can be found in Acts 4 and 5. When Peter and John were commanded not to preach the gospel, their response was, "We must obey God rather than men" (Acts 5:29).

[BlueCat]

(please don't take this as being antagonistic... i believe in the wisdom of the bible completely, and just find this a challenging issue to ignore as smoking is a regular part of my life and is illegal where i live)

It is being antagonistic because for many people weed is a life saver. If you are not sick and it is bothering you that much then don't smoke. THe way you worded your question was antagonistic and you can't just say I'm not talking about medical marijuana because this is a battle we fight everyday and the law applies to US as well not just "Bible Readers" who smoke for recreation. How can your question not apply to everyone?

You questions make it appear as though YOU interpet the Bible to say we are sinners how can that not be taken as antagonization?

If you believe the Bible to be the final word WHY ARE YOU judging others?

[BlueCat]

Well thanks I kinda got a little angry....but I really feel like my rights for treatment are being violated and when I see someone trying to justify the very laws I am fighting simply because "it is THE law or to have someone use the Bible against weed as if it is a sin, I see red. Its just not right.

People think medical marijuana is legal but it isn't sick people are still being arrested because of federal law and that kind of talk does nothing to help our cause. Ya know?

[Polymirize]

So, according to Jesus, even if the government is compelling you to do something you don't want to do (or compelling you not to do something you want to do), you should comply. Even if you believe the government is acting unjust, and consider the law to be your enemy, you must obey it, for you are to love your enemies and do whatever is asked of you by anybody ever.


You've got a pretty warped interpretation of the sermon on the mount man... Why do you always feel the need to open your mouth and make all agnostic/athesists look like complete assholes?
We all know where you stand, because your means of getting there are pretty simplistic. Just sit in the corner and let the adults talk huh?

And Haze, do you even know what you mean when you say "bible-believing" christian? I don't. Maybe the christians do, but are you thinking the same thing? This just seems like a case of you trying to tell people what they believe, and it seems you might be wrong...

[orangeman]

I have never heard anyone say that the government is committing a sin by asking us not to smoke. I do understand the Bible says obey the laws of the land and I do understand the government says it's not right to smoke marijuana. But if God really exists then come on. God is not going to create a plant and then create human and tell him to take care of the land and harvest the yield or maintain the garden if it wasn't meant for us to discover consuming the weed". Every plant has it's purpose and it seems to me as times goes on they keep finding more beneficial things to happen to us when we "consume" cannabis. So it's obvious what ever it's purpose has, we have to consume the chemicals in the plant in order to benefit from it. Like I said before, if the stories of the Bible are true and Cannabis was forbidden plant it'd be hidden from the world as the Tree of Life was or Tree of Knowledge, or Good and Evil. Which ever one it was. I mean when you think of how natural bud is you'll realize there is nothing wrong with consuming it. I mean come on, the bud comes off of a freggin branch or "stem", it can't get anymore natural than that. Maybe smoking is bad, I don't argue with this. If there was nothing wrong with it I wouldn't suffer smoke-related health problems. But there is nothing at all wrong with consuming it by eating it or something of that nature. If God could give us a direct message today he'd tell us to stop the non-sense, ban your guns..not my creations. I put this here for you, why do you dislike my gift of love?

[hazetwostep]

BLUECAT... make sure you read the whole thread before you tear into someone. i stated earlier that marijuana for medicinal purposes is a different issue! also, i addressed the difference between civil disobedience if the government is asking you to commit an immoral act or if they are asking you to refrain from a recreational habit. medicinal and religious uses of it are a different story which i said earlier... SO DON"T BE SO QUICK TO FLIP OUT UNTIL YOU HAVE READ THE WHOLE THREAD!!!! don't read one line and assume you know the other page and a half of discussions!!!

second, don't say i am judging cause i am not... i am trying to have a mature discussion which includes challenging ideas! i don't think there is anything wrong with marijuana.. i never said there was and i am not saying anyone is evil here for smoking. i am a christian and i smoke... sooooo chillllllllllllllllllllllllll.

i am just asking a question to a particular group of people who function in a particular vein of society.. "bible believing/following" christian in the mainstream sense of the word!!!! i agree with all of your thinking but i am trying to find if there is anyone from the other way of thinking on here for discussions!!! i use to be from the "bible believing/following" vein. i still believe in jesus and the wisdom of the bible now, just not in the mainstream sense of the definition, which obviously you don't either, which is cool. i am not asking your opinion as mine is already the same!!!! ok...

obviously, there is not anyone from that vein on here as everyone who has answered was from a more postmodern paradigm, not surprisingly. oooh.. don't take that as an insult bluecat, as i am of a postmodern paradigm... dont just assume it is a slam!

[Oneironaut]

You've got a pretty warped interpretation of the sermon on the mount man...
Umm, I'm just reading what the words say. Jesus says to not resist evil, and to do what you are compelled to do, does he not? :confused:

Why do you always feel the need to open your mouth and make all agnostic/athesists look like complete assholes?
Sorry for being an atheist who critiques religion. :confused:

[BlueCat]

Hazetwostep, When you begin a post with asking for "only Bible believing Christains" and you ask that we JUSTIFY smoking weed and you state that the Bible clearly states that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey God.

Maybe it is your wording of the post but you can't possible make a statement like that AND NOT expect to ruffle some feathers. Trust me I read this thread and your comment about MM.That does not change the opening statement.

First you are isolating yourself into "only Bible believing Christains" as if no one elses word means anything.And really are their Christains that don't believe in the Bible? How is that possible? I can understand believing in God and not the Bible but then you would not be a Christian. Christianity is based on the Bible. So you will have to explain that statement to me please because frankly I DON'T GET IT.

Second I don't believe we should separate medical weed from recreational weed. If you believe in God then why wouldn't you believe he made weed for us to use and we HAVE used it for many things until the latter 20th century leaders decided they wanted to control it.

It is this kind of talk...that leads people to beleive marijuana is a bad thing. we are trying so hard to get it legalized so that kind of talk does not help matters and it is just plain silly. Geez Orangeman said it perfectly in his post. Many other posters here seem to get it. It makes no sense to even suggest weed is sinful or that mans law is right. It is everyones God given right to use weed.

So maybe you need to rephrase your question or explain a little better the point you are trying to make here. :)

[Polymirize]

Sorry for being an atheist who critiques religion. :confused:

You do understand why simply calling something stupid may not constitute a valid critique, don't you?

[Pass That Shit]

Does the bible say it's wrong to smoke? I think we need to be sober. If your heart and soul is in the Lord, I think you'll be ok.
Believing in another God is like being drunk.

[hazetwostep]

sorry bluecat if my wording put you on the defensive. it is too bad that a simple question stirs defensiveness, instead of friendly and civil dialougue. i can't say that i blame you as weed smoking christians are not overly accepted in the larger christian community.

as far as your interpretation of my directing a question at a particular group of people means that nobody elses opinion counts, well, you couldn't be further off. i am directing it at a particular group of people because it is their answer that i am most curious about. people who are not literalists in biblical interpretation breeze by the question by personal opinion, which is totally fine, but are answers i could have come up with on my own. my interest is for a particular way of thinking. asking non-bible believing (in the mainstream literalist sense of the term) christians is of no gain as any opinion is good enough. i am researching the perspective of literalists so focusing my question is a necessity, as i am looking for biblical backing.

as far as asking about christians who do not believe in the bible... please listen... I SAID FROM A MAINSTREAM LITERALIST PERSPECTIVE which is very different that those who believe in the bible as a general guide and not as god's inerent and infallible word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people who pick and choose what is valid and what isn't doesn't help me. i am looking for valid scriptural backing as to how people get around the biblical text as it over and over again gives "commands" about obeying the law of the land and authority. i am not a literalist anymore so that is why i need to ask literalists. i look at it as a general guide, but not law/rules. so i once again dont need to hear from people of my same perspective, i want to hear from others so i can grow and learn. if that means to you that other people's perspectives don't matter at all, well, then you should probably ignore this thread as it is "close minded."

as far as your opinion that medical and recreational weed should not be seperated... well that i disagree simply because medical uses are completely different that entertainment/recreational uses. i do not think that recreational should be banned, but regulated differently than medical mj.... but guess what? this thread is not for that discussion, but i would be happy to discuss it with you in another thread if you begin it, but please not here.

lastly to your post... i made no statement that marijuana is a sin... please read my posts carefully. i am not asking about the substance itself being immoral as it is not and there is no sound, clear, or distinct law against it. i am talking about the immorality that would be associated with disobeying of authority. there is no clear biblical backing that would associate marijuana with immorality, but a pretty strong arguement can be made about the fact that it is against the law in this country and disobeying the law is immoral. i am not looking for asnwers like, well it shouldn't be against the law so it is fine... i am looking to see if anyone has biblically sound backing to navigate around the issue of disobeying authority as immorality... NOT WEED BEING IMMORAL so it is not putting the fight to legalize back at all as it should be legalized so that this issue of immorality from disobedience is no longer an issue!

i will try to be more clear in my posts (though i don't know how much more clear it could be when i stated the exact group i was addressing, and if you are in that group the question would not be so confusing)... maybe you could work on reading posts and the entire thread a little more so that i don't need to repeat myself so many times and talk to people who the thread was no even directed toward.. as it is pretty safe to assume that you are not a biblical literalist as "weed shouldn't be illegal therefor it is fine, is not a biblically backed opinion and certainly not a literalist comment.

thanks...

passthatshit,
no the bible says nothing about smoking being wrong. the main scriptures used to fight the use of marijuana or smoking of any sort are related to the following...
1. your body is the temple and should not be intentionally injured (As smoke does hurt); though to be fair this would need to cover everything like that including over-eating, eating processed sugars, sun tanning, etc. making it a very weak arguement)
2. the bible says that your body should not come under the control of any substance or person other than yourself (which they associate being high as falling under this; then again caffeine could just as easily fall under this as it is the widest used psychotropic drug)
3. any addiction is shunned in the bible and as some become psychologically addicted to THC, hence its "sin"; though christians arguing this have some serious justifying of the caffeine addictions of so many christians... "caffeine is the choice drug of christians"

[MastaChronic]

hear me again
jesus said
"it is not what goes into the mouth of the man that defileth him, but what comes out of the mouth that defileth the man."
he was speaking in reference to cannabis eaters

[JunkYard]

I don't know if that verse covers everything, though. Cannabis, maybe? But, if a person ate out a crack whores juicy lucy, I'd say he'd be pretty fucking defiled, man.

:cool:


~Junk~

[BlueCat]

Look I guess we got off on the wrong foot and I am sorry about that.
I just don't understand the group of Christains that think no one gets them simply because they question them. If you don't fit in that group then that is good but your question did not imply that. I have gone to every church denomination out there. I read so many books on belief systems trying to understand the reasons people do what they do in the name of God. I am not as ignorant to your subject as you seem to imply.

I understood your opening line completely that is why it bothered me. It would seem to me if you are looking for that narrow of an audience cannabis.com is the wrong place for your research. Why not ask a Christain Bible reading forum you are after all looking for "only Bible reading Christians."

To come here and want to talk about if smoking weed is breaking mans law as well as Gods law just seems like the wrong place. I mean I am not the only poster to take offence here. SO either a lot of people read your question wrong or you need an audience that is willing to go down that path.

I think anyone here should support legalization or find another playground but then I am an activist for legalization so I can't help but feel that way and I will always speak out for marijuana. I see any negative comments against legalization as a violation of my rights as an individual. I am very emotional about it becuase Marijuana has changed my life as it has many chronically ill people. So you will have to excuse the emotion and I will drop out of this thread you are right it is certainly NOT my cup of tea.

But I will be interested in reading future comments as to how others percieve this. this just seems to me an odd place to ask such a question. I am not sure what kind of answers you expect to get here.

[Pass That Shit]

I can't believe I'm actually gonna say this, but I completely agree with MastaChronic on this one. :D

He hit the nail on the head.

[BlueCat]

I can't believe I'm actually gonna say this, but I completely agree with MastaChronic on this one. :D

He hit the nail on the head.

Yes the Masta does that to me sometimes too and his little bits of wisdom just blow me away. I am becoming a fan. :D:D

[Pass That Shit]

Masta is right because even when the jews weren't allowed to eat with unwashed hands (jewish law), Jesus taught them that you can't defile yourself by eating with dirty hands. Same applies to weed. The law says it's illegal (now), but inhaling smoke CAN NOT defile your soul. It's what comes out of the heart that defiles a man. If you love the Lord with all your heart, soul and spirit....weed won't make you a sinner in his eyes. No sin will. The biggest sin of all is unbelief.

I smoke weed and live and die by his word.
Man should not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

[hazetwostep]

mastachronic, it is a great scripture for moral legalization support aspect...

please, what is the reference for that scripture and what about it's context brings you to the conclusion that it was in regards to cannabis eating, as context is so very important in applying principles?

[hazetwostep]

bluecat... cool that we could level. i will also look forward to bumping into you around the boards. do you participate in organized religion currently or no? sounds like you have searched around a lot... as i have and found like nothing available!

[MastaChronic]

mastachronic, it is a great scripture for moral legalization support aspect...

please, what is the reference for that scripture and what about it's context brings you to the conclusion that it was in regards to cannabis eating, as context is so very important in applying principles?

it beats the hell out of me what the exact location of that quote is in the bible, but it also said something about jesus living amongst cannabis eater for a while or something.
maybe somebody else knows its location because idk

[hazetwostep]

i would be curious to find that and read the context of it... as that is really what needs to be done to understand it. cool though if someday i find it...

wow, i feel like my fingers are sloping into my keyboard... wow... i think smoking kicked up the duff brownies from last night! im starting to trip again

[BlueCat]

bluecat... cool that we could level. i will also look forward to bumping into you around the boards. do you participate in organized religion currently or no? sounds like you have searched around a lot... as i have and found like nothing available!

No I don't participate in any one religion. I do some volunteer work with several churches as long as they aren't pushing a political agenda or an anti Muslim agenda. There are a lot of churches still providing help to Katrina vicitms. They are the ONLY ones helping! I have gone to the Buddhist temple to volunteer a few times and have taken flowers the mosque in Vancouver.

I like to read the CPTers newsletter and trade emails with them. I admire the work they do. They do seem to follow the WWJD rule.

I am just not comfortable with the direction so many religions have taken.
I went into a church in Bella Vista Arkansas 2 years ago and they actually had huge photos of Bush and Cheney hanging OVER THE PULPIT. I kid you not....it was crazy.

[jayrollinhippy]

This thread began wit a simple question that can have no answer . I recently had a revalation into a the true nature of the Holy Herb . Yes I said that Marijuana is Holy the indica is marked with a leaf of seven fingers, and seven is the number signifing Holy perfection. The name Marijuana when broken down to its roots means Mary beloved of God. Msri= mary > juana[fem]>juan[male] = John = Yahn. Yah is one of the Holy names of God in hebrew. So the Holy name of God is hidden in the name Marijuana.

The whole drug war is a jihad of Satan to destory the relationship of man and cannabis. For 5000 years cannabis was the very backbone of the economy. It provided food canvas for sail an tents ,caulking for ships rope and cords medicines and incense and oils for light.

king James 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all
the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for
meat.

here the word meat is important. For at this time meat was all of these things. Meat was food it was tobe shared it was a sacrament to god it was medicine and its fat provived light sinues made cords hides rope. These thing cannabis can do.
And here is a prophecy for the true belivers as our holy Sacrament is banned by the goverment

1 Timothy 4

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall
depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of
devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot
iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which
God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe
and know the truth.

4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be
received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

[HiProGlow]

Just some quick questions:

I wonder what you would have thought if you were contemporary with David? Would you consider him a lawbreaker, a murderer? Or would you have considered him doing the will of God? What would you have thought of Moses? A radical, a murderer, a law breaker or a follower of the word of God? You see, when it comes to the law and God there is a thin line which is only a matter of perception. Peace.

[RichieRich]

Hi Haze and Blue cat:

I was glad to see you guys could happily reconcile. It was a really good thread looking back through it all. I got a really good picture of you two especially. Thanks! Oh and Haze I am one of those people you were looking for in your first post. I am not trying to be mean or insensitive TO ANYONE as well but I am just looking for people who interpret the love of Jesus in the same way as I do. I think thats the Calvinist in me though :)

[JunkYard]

I think thats the Calvinist in me though :)

Now there's an argument, lol! Armenian here :D


I still love you, tho....


:hippy:

[ooorbjoo]

What kind of god would make pot and then tell you not to smoke it?
None that I know of. I never read "Though shall burnith in hell for puffing thy Jay."
Besides, church is waaaay better high. IMO.


What kind of god would make an apple and tell you not to eat it??


fuck i hate religion

[RichieRich]

I dont believe in the whole TULIP, just parts of it. Armenian and Calvin make no difference to me as long as you love Jesus, you know?

[krazy chino]

ok. God created weed not man.....man created beer and God said gettin drunk is a sin....da bible doesnt say smokin its a sin im pretty sure if it was a sin da bible would say cuz weed was aroud back then....i think if U choose weed over God then dats a sin.........weed is nature and God put it in this planet for us to enjoy God said if we dont use or appreciate da things he has created and given us den dats a sin......thank U God for da beautiful plants U have given us

[MastaChronic]

ok. God created weed not man.....man created beer and God said gettin drunk is a sin....da bible doesnt say smokin its a sin im pretty sure if it was a sin da bible would say cuz weed was aroud back then....i think if U choose weed over God then dats a sin.........weed is nature and God put it in this planet for us to enjoy God said if we dont use or appreciate da things he has created and given us den dats a sin......thank U God for da beautiful plants U have given us

not anything personal
but i felt like a retard as i read this...it has some valid points...but all the replacement of "th" with "d" makes me feel like a complete moron

[krazy chino]

am I a sinner cuz im happy, hungry,laughing,thinkin deep,calm, and laughing even more .... well if doin dat its a sin den im goin to hell..... :)

[jsn9333]

Hey,
I already approached this topic when you asked me about it in the thread I started looking for other conservative Christians. But I'll post my answer here too since it is exactly what you're asking about and people might be interested.

The specific verse that comes to my mind when people talk about the Bible commanding Christians to "obey the laws of the land" is Romans 13:5 which says, "Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience."

Notice what that says is a little different then "obey the laws of the land." What comes to my mind when seeing how the majority of Bible-following Christians interpret this verse is speeding. We all do it. Well, there are a few that don't... but almost everyone does. The way I've come to see that verse is basically if I get caught speeding... submit and pay the penalty. But (here's the kicker), if I'm doing 5-7mph over chances are I probably won't even get pulled since cops and D.A.'s don't really enforce those laws until you're at least 10 or more over. So in a sense, at 7mph over the speed limit I'm still "submitting" to the authorities... maybe not to the letter of the law, but I'm at least submitting to how they enforce the laws. There are a lot of obscure laws on the books that typically aren't enforced at all or enforced very strongly. So it sort of depends how you define "submission."

It's sort of a weird way to look at that verse. However, its really the only way it makes sense to me given that it is actually *unsafe* to follow the letter of the law sometimes (like when everyone around you on the Interstate is doing 15mph over and you're doing 1mph making them dodge you!) and even the authorities themselves don't follow all the laws.

I of course would not argue with a Christian who feels that all laws should be obeyed. If that is where their heart leads them, then that's where they need to be. But I would question their consistency of they were ok with a little speeding, but freaked out if someone smoked a joint... you know?

What helps is that my state (North Carolina) has decriminalized marijuana to a large extent. So simple possession (1st offense) typically gets you a $100 fine and your record stays clear. So I sort of see that as one of those laws the state doesn't really care too much about. There is probably a lot of cops and judges that smoke weed... just like there are a lot of them that speed a little.

That being said, I couldn't justify a huge grow operation, since the state obviously cares very much about that (years in the slammer). I'm thinking about growing a plant or two of my own now... and I'm still considering the risks, the legal ramifications, etc. I think even one plant could get me 12 months in jail and a felony conviction. And if they decided to hand the case over to the feds for whatever reason I could get 5 years. But, chances are one plant would be dealt with lightly.

So yeah... I'm having questions about growing. But I don't really have options where I'm at since I don't know any dealers. So I my just try to flower one plant, keep it small, and try to keep my yield down. As far as smoking only though, I don't really have any problems with it biblically and/or morally. Again though, every Christian needs to decide this for himself.

[DurtyJerzee]

I feel that "obey the law of the land" was written in good faith thinking that man would be creating laws to help society not hinder it.

[RichieRich]

Hey JNS:

You have to remember that just because something is legal, it doesn't make it right. It is legal for me to go to Nevada and have sex with a prostitute but that doesn't make it right. I am sure my significant would have quite a bit to say about that. Its legal for me to get shitty drunk in my house but I personally don't think thats right for me. And if we always just blindly obeyed all the laws of the land there would probably still be slavery in the USA.
Peace.....:jointsmile:

[iPot]

There is still slavery in the US. The difference now is they give you money to go and buy your own food and find your own place to stay.

*jumping in the discussion without reading anything but the last comment*

[jdmarcus59]

if they says it is wrong, does that give you guilt?
would we have guilt, if they said it was good?
if we have guilt there where does it come from?
being onest with gulit, lies your answer..

[JunkYard]

Guilt is a self defeating tool that we use to punish ourselves needlessly. Guilt has nothing to do with right or wrong; it is only a self inlflicted state of uneasyness derived from social...damn! Whats the word/s I'm looking for? (Mental block)


you get the drift, tho....

[latewood]

The book of genesis states that everything on earth, form the fish in the sea, and all the green shrubberies/herbs are for use of man. Look for a similar passage. you will fing=d the passage in the 1st book of the bible. genesis

As far as the law of the land. that would be the law of the people not the corrupt government. the people say 2 to 1 that POt should be legalized...So there it is. Peace

[Newbie87]

the goverment may make the laws but they don t fallow them why should we but MJ was put here by GOD and by god i think we should smoke it!:rastasmoke:

[jdmarcus59]

we are under grace, what does your heart convect you of?

[RichieRich]

I get convicted about alot of things and mary jane has NEVER been one of them. Peace..:jointsmile:

[krazy chino]

I don't feel guilt when i smoke weed I just don't want to get cought by people that has been brainwashed by the government that weed is bad for sum reason....see the government is tryin to kill us......they sale alcohol cuz they know people will drive and get crazy and crash and die or crash and live and go to jail for DUI....but they know God created weed and that everybody will be in peace and connct socially and we will all think the same and thats what the government don't want happy people chillin and smokin pot and having big ideas and sharin them

[peacetrain]

There are bible passages both for smoking (a lot in Genesis)

and many passages against it (body is your temple, obey the law of the land, etc.)


...I'd just say, fuck the bible, smoke your weed! It's not a sin or a crime, because both of those imply some sort of victim. :)

[lazy smoker7]

well its a sin to harm your body and smoking cannabis with all the tar inhaled... the tar is damaging your lungs so thats damaging your body and thats a sin but if you eat cannabis I dont see how it could be a sin because I cant find anyway on how it harms the body if you eat cannabis.... either way were gonna sin regardless if we smoke cannabis or not... so why stop smoking it for are own personal pleasure if we are still going to sin doing other shit like watching movies with a bad meaning and doign other shit .... so personally I dont think its a sin really to use cannabis because we still hurt are body by drinking coca cola and shit and no one takes that seriously and I saw on some christian forums that they said beating your meat is not a sin b/c it is natural while they say smoking weed is a sin... but you beat your meat for a good fealing the same reason you smoke weed for a good fealing so I dont undertstand why the christian will take beating ur meat as not a sin or what ever... so smoking weed is just as bad if not better than beating your meat sin wise....... I hope that made sence :jointsmile:

[johnnyreeferseed]

As a Bible believing Christian, what is the reasoning you follow to justify smoking marijuana in a country that it is illegal to do so? This is in light of the Bible clearly stating that to disobey the law of the land is to disobey him.


I don't think the dudes who wrote the bible planned on having a government that threw people in jail for acts that aren't wrong.

[weedypowerpuff]

The Bible says that we have been given every seed bearing herb to eat for meat. Genisis 1:29.

Nowhere does the Bible speak against Marijuana. It warns of the dangers of alcohol. Also it says that it up to us to discern what foods are good and what are bad. If I use marijuana and see it as a gift of God and praise him for it you cannot judge me.

[Buddha Man]

half of you people claiming to know the bible...DONT. Jesus was the biggest law breaker of his time. he broke so many "laws of the land" which was the reason for his death. heres one story for you people.

the day of the sabbath was supposed to be a day of prayer and rest. you werent allowed to cook, or leave your house on sunday. anyone found outside or breaking these laws would be put to death. so one day, some "cops" were walking by jesus' crib on a sabbath. he was having a barbeque outside with his boys. the cops were like "jesus WTF you doing?? you are supposed to be resting and praying". and jesus was like "we were hungry so we decided to cook some corn".

thats obviously not the exact words but thats how the story went.

THE LAWS OF GOD ARE HIGHER THAN THE LAWS OF MAN.
and
LET HE WHO IS WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE