RacerX's recirculating 16 bucket dwc "Grow Log"

[Racerx]

Im killing some time so I thought Id start my new hydro grow log and share some of the planning. Pictures soon.

I have been in the process of building a 16 bucket (5 gal) recirculating deep water culture hydroponic system for a while. Only a few weeks left before completion. Its been a large endevoir and I really wanted to share the cost of setting something like this up, especially if you buy the stuff new.

A little background: The room is 10.5x11.5x8 feet with a closet large enough to fit both the 55 gallon gravity reservoir and the 30 gallon control reservoir (where the water pump sits). We are doing 4 rows of 4 plants. 2 plants from 2 different rows will sit underneith a Lumatek 750 watt digital lamp with an 8" aircooled hood. We bit the bullet and upgraded from 600s to 750s. We actually have 3 750s and decided to stay with 1 600 to see if we can notice a considerable difference in product/weight. I am betting already that it is This gives around 7500 lumens per square foot or 47 watts per square foot. Normally 47watts/sqft is not ideal for such large plants but since these are 750 digitals, its decievingly more then enough.

So here is a list of everything we needed to complete the room. This doesnt include a lot of other random things such as screws, nails, anchoring hooks for the lights, etc. But it includes the majority and major stuff. As far as the small parts go...there are a few extra parts thrown into the numbers incase anything breaks. *NOTE* Blazeoneup from Cannagraphic is the one responsible for compiling the list of parts needed for the actual hydro system (his own list and recipe on Cannagraphic is for a 12 buckets so its been modified).

4 x Lumatek 750 watt digital ballasts (240v), with Cool Reflector XL 8" aircooled hoods and 750 watt bulbs
4 x Lamp Yo-Yos (these are an extra cost but every little thing that is made easier counts)
CO2 PPM meter/controller (indepedent from the lights controller, but wont turn on during the off hours)
CO2 regulator
CO2 tank
6 socket 240v electrical box (box takes one single 240 connection and turns it into 6 smaller slant eyes. Same as say a CAP MC8 but homemade)
1/4 horsepower reservoir chiller
60 pint dehumidifier
2 x 10" 1100cfm ultraquiet inline fans w/ speed controllers
500gph water pump
1 x 85 watt air pump and 1 x 35 watt air pump, diffused into 18 lines total (one for each bucket, 1 for the control res and 1 for the large res)
25 feet of 8" ducting (You might need more)
15 feet of 10" ducting
8" to 8" duct connector (for passive intake)
100 feet of poly (white/black) plastic
Hanna TDS pen (already have a pH)
8", and 10" hose clamps (number depends. Around 10 8" and 4 10")
16 5 gallon black buckets (if you get white, spray paint them)
16 5 gal bucket tops (or you can buy the tops with the netpots already in them. My problem with this is that I transplant the netpots so they dont work for me)
16 heavy duty american agritech 5" netpots
10L bag of hydroton expanded clay balls
16 x 8" airstones
20 3/4" elbows
20 3/4" T's
20 3/4" ebb n flow fittings
26 ebb n flow screens
4 3/4" shut off valves
2 1/2" ebbnflow fittings
24 1/4" straight barbs
70 7/8" hose clamps
16 1/4" barbed elbows
4 1/2" shutoff valves
4 1/2" end caps
120' of 3/4 ID tubing
100' of 1/4" ID tubing
50' of 1/4" ID tubing
1 float valve
3 sheets of 4'x8' foam soundboard (Home Depot)
waterproof epoxy (not even really needed but nice to have incase)

Tools (only for building the hydro setup, not including hammers, saw, etc for the room and ducting, etc):
1x Drill
1x 3/16" bit
1x 3/8" bit
1x 1&1/4" hole saw bit with starter bit
1x Needle nose plyers
1x sharp knife
1x heavy duty scissors

Total Approx Cost = $5000 (ill give a more accurate price list this weekend as far as individual costs, etc).

We have to build a seperate small area around the only window in the room, as this is where the room will passively intake cold air from. With this design no one would ever suspect anything by looking in the window because you cannot see anything and it looks falsely deep. This is much safer since the window will be somewhat open (locked in slightly open position). A small CFL turns on once in awhile to simulate someone using the room normally. Ive use this before and its great.

A 10" fan sits in the attic and exhausts the 4 hoods and another independent 10" fan exhausts the room itself from CO2/heat. 2 lights go inline so there are only two 8" lines into the 10" line. Ideally, the room is going to be so cold that we will need to turn off the aircooling in order to help heat the room. If this is the case, we will move down to only one 10" fan and keep the ends of the hoods open and just draw the CO2 right out of there. This would save energy, make the thing more low key, and simplify things. These days if we dont turn the heater on...the room gets to around 55 degrees or cooler in a matter of hours. Even when its sunny, due to its shady location.

The clones are starting out in 5.5" netpots and hydroton in 18 gallon Rubbermaid "roughneck" storage containers. There are 6 pots per container, so there are 3 of them. They are all powered by one 35 watt air pump that does 2 large airstones per bucket. This are a ton of bubbles. Water starts slightly above the bottom of the pot. After roots poke, its dropped a couple inches below. Once they hang, down to around 4-5". The net pots are rotated softly everyday to discourage the roots from intertwining because of their close proximity. They will veg for 2.5 more weeks in these tubs until they are ready to go into the big room. This is just enough time to get them rooted without getting them too tangled. There are a few reasons we do this; namely its a space and electricity issue. The clones can only take a little light in the beginning (light sits about 4 feet above the clones at first) so 1 light is plenty to start with. We have a space issue so this allows us to do everything in a much smaller and easier to control closet instead of using the large flowering room and not taking advantage of it. At 2.5 weeks more veg they get transplanted into the 5 gallon buckets for another 2.5 weeks of veg under the final configuration; 5 weeks veg total.

One week before flowering we turn on CO2. We use a PPM matched with the nutrient PPM. CO2 timing schedule is not 100% yet, depends on how long it takes for the room to get warm, etc. 50mins on and 15 off with venting, is the general plan to shoot for. CO2 goes on until 2 weeks before harvest. 1/2/3 for nutrient grow recipe and 3/2/1 for bloom. Unsure of the Big Bud additive I normally use, as its being argued that if you use a 3/2/1 then the PPM is too high with the Big Bud or the levels of Bloom, etc are not powerful enough if the PPM is within spec. Well see. I pushed 1800 ppm on my last DWC grow and Ive never seen a plant love it so much.

Thats about it for now. Pictures later today when the camera is charged.

[JackdaWack]

Pics would be great, this hydro sytem u can buy 500 pre made, i think its one of the best.

[CaliJay]

Hey RX...question...Why not use a timer to shut down the Co2 during lights out? Is it cheaper to get the all in one controller to regulate ppms and shut off power to the monitor?

[Racerx]

Hey RX...question...Why not use a timer to shut down the Co2 during lights out? Is it cheaper to get the all in one controller to regulate ppms and shut off power to the monitor?

Its cheaper...but when your spending this much anyways, why not just do it once and do it right. I dont want independent timers and such...its just asking for problems.

Here are some crappy pictures to give you an idea of how the operation is started, before being transplanted. This was right after transplanting into the hydroton so the light is very high. Its around 2.5-3 feet above the clones until they start showing a little more roots. The closet and hood is exhausted with a single 6" fan that is heavily speed controlled. The room stays 78 with the door closed, around 70 with it a little open. Humidity stays around 50. The glass on the hood is cool to the touch. I could lick it. =) Water is 68*, and pH is around 5.8 or a tiny bit lower. PPM is 800 (600 nutes, 300 water). Its tap water.

Ill take some better ones tomorrow night with some pictures of the other equipment, etc.

PS. The tanks have covers over the top so there isnt any light through the hydroton either.

[bud luv]

I want to see.

[Weedhound]

i want to see the photos of you licking the glass hood.

[BlueBear]

Licking the glass, sounds like mine. Sounds like a solid set up so far, sure it took quite a bit of work to get it all up and running. One thing to keep in mine, over at IC many folks are trying to use all air pumps outside of grow room when using CO2 for the fact that the pumps will inject CO2 into the root system threw the water and possibly be counter productive. Do you have any thoughts on this?
What are you placing clones into, RW or strait hydro rocks? If RW do you still allow the water to touch the RW when raising the water level to the bottom of the inside of the net pot when establishing the root system???
Adieu

[Racerx]

Licking the glass, sounds like mine. Sounds like a solid set up so far, sure it took quite a bit of work to get it all up and running. One thing to keep in mine, over at IC many folks are trying to use all air pumps outside of grow room when using CO2 for the fact that the pumps will inject CO2 into the root system threw the water and possibly be counter productive. Do you have any thoughts on this?
What are you placing clones into, RW or strait hydro rocks? If RW do you still allow the water to touch the RW when raising the water level to the bottom of the inside of the net pot when establishing the root system???
Adieu

yes the pump sits in an area that is fed cold air and not pulling air directly from the room. Its also high up in the room, not on the floor. The clones were done in Rockwool. The RW sits in hydro rocks in 5.5" netpots. I never saw a need for massive netpots, theres plenty for roots to grab ahold of. At the beginning we put the water level about a half inch above the bottom of the netpot. With all the bubbling action, high water level (the RW is really only a couple inches above the water level at this point), and the wet atmosphere there is no problem keeping the RW wet. The RW sits right below the surface of the netpots, one layer of hydrorocks on top. Once in awhile...if the RW looks really dry I will pour some of the res water through the rocks.

As of right now, the water is around 1.5" below the bottom of the pots. Every pot has great roots coming out into the water. PPM is around 1000. There is no burning. They have all been topped. Water temp stays around 68. The 6" fan is at about 25% power and the room is a solid 73-75* F with a humidity that roams between 30 and 40 (sometimes getting to 50 when it rains). If I turn the fan on full speed the room goes down into the low 60s. I have the fan on bungie cords, it barely makes a sound. The airpump is far far louder. The hood is about 18" from the canopy. Great green, fat roots. We have about 4 weeks left of veg...which has me extremely excited.

[Racerx]

Picture of me licking the glass as requested. This is with the fan on about 25%. The other pictures are around a week old showing off the setup. Having camera issues. New camera next week, new pics of the big setup.

[BlueBear]

Fantabulous!! I am looking at that same tutorial as well. Any headaches with leaks? Did you change much from the original design?
Adieu

[MisterE]

I read Blazeonups entire thread as well a week or two ago and it rocks. I am curious why someone doesnt mold in a 1/4" nipple in the middle of what would otherwise just be a 1/2" connector.. certainly be no leaks then :)

From what I understand, thats the only real vulnerable spot.

[Racerx]

I read Blazeonups entire thread as well a week or two ago and it rocks. I am curious why someone doesnt mold in a 1/4" nipple in the middle of what would otherwise just be a 1/2" connector.. certainly be no leaks then :)

From what I understand, thats the only real vulnerable spot.

System is leak proof for us as it has been for Blaze. 70 7/8" hose clamps cost about $50...sucks ballz, but for a guaranteed no leaking its nice security. The room is coming along nicely, finishing touches going in over the next few days.

Definitely the biggest news for us is that we decided to keep our house for an extra 2 months after we move which enables us to veg as much as we could possibly need and do a full 10 weeks of flowering instead of 8. Huge news and I am very confident in our 1.5+ pounds per light. Roots are just busting out like crazy. New camera comes end of this week. Unfortunetly not much pics until then. I am finishing up the growroom build tonight or tomorrow with step by step directions and pictures. I forgot how much I miss walking into a room with 4 huge lights. The 750 digitals are...well they are magnificent. I need to wear sunglasses just to walk into the room and atleast with the eye test...they are far more powerful then the normal 1000 watts our friends use. The hoods we are using are great for about a 4'x4' spread, keeping the light about 12-14" from the canopy. They are 3 weeks into veg...going for about another 4 weeks of veg. If we can get 2 pounds per light Ill be fully satisfied.

I wanted to mention that the new Can Fan Maxx 10" fan is absolutely ridiculous. Over 1100cfm and except for the sound of the air...its dead silent. Noticebly quieter then our 6"...thats running on a speed controller!!! Its so powerful that if you set it on the ground it will move across the floor and gain a seriously amount of speed. Its setup like a turbine engine, much smaller then the normal inline fan. Pics soon.

For hanging out lights, we use 10" eyelet bolts that are drilled through the ceiling and into a piece of plywood that goes between ceiling joists. The end result is earthquake proof and gives a good place for the ballasts to sit in the attic. The 10" fan sits in the attic, while the 6" fan for aircooling the lights sits inside the room. Its an interesting configuration we were turned onto by a friend. 4 lights, a U of 6" ducting between all the lights...with the fan between both rows in the middle of the U. I am plain amazed at how well a single 6" fan works at aircooling 4 hoods. The fan pulls cold air from our window box and exhausts it into our attic. The 10" room exhaust only runs 10 minutes every hour.

EDIT. We also changed out electrical box to a CAP Controller MLC-8. This box takes a single 40 amp 240v connection and turns it into 8 240 connections for 8 1000watt+ lights. However...there is a nice twist. Instead of having one 120v trigger cord to turn the lights on an off, there are 2 which each control 4 lights. This enables us to use one box with 2 different light schedules for 2 different rooms. Saves time, money, and is far safer.

[Racerx]

Fantabulous!! I am looking at that same tutorial as well. Any headaches with leaks? Did you change much from the original design?
Adieu

Forget to address your question Bluebear. Not much was changed except the following. We decided to not run a second gravity feeding reservoir. A single 40 gallon reservoir is plenty and it forces us to change water more often. We got an absolutely insane deal on all of our equipment because of a friend so we have tons of nutrients, etc so changing is not an issue. The obvious design change is 16 buckets rather then 12...but its still 4 rows (just with an extra bucket on each row). We use a nice 350GPH water pump instead of Blaezeonup's 250 or 275gph pump. We use Airstones instead of air diffusers because they seem to produce smaller and more bubbles. We use a 35 watt air pump that is T-ed into 17 connections (one for the reservoir). It is plenty and one 35 watt produces more air then two 24 watts pumps.

Aside from that, we used regular 5 gallon bucket tops and then cut holes to fit the netpots into them and epoxied them. They are a bitch and a half to get off (practically require a screwdriver although snipping one part helps them get on and off) and are something we are going to change next grow.

[BlueBear]

Hey Racerx, couple more questions, where did you get your 750's and the cost, what kind of hoods and last, with the fan that is cooling the hoods bringing in outside air if I understood right, do you get any moisture touching the bulbs during rain storms?
Thanks for all of your answers.
Adieu

[MisterE]

If your ballasts are up above the joists and under the roof of the house and you get snow and ice on the roof, will you have a big melted dry spot up there? hahaha ;)

[Racerx]

If your ballasts are up above the joists and under the roof of the house and you get snow and ice on the roof, will you have a big melted dry spot up there? hahaha ;)

They are digital ballasts. They are cooler then a normal ballast. In the day they get a little hot still, but as soon as evening arrives you can sit your tushy on em.


Hey Racerx, couple more questions, where did you get your 750's and the cost, what kind of hoods and last, with the fan that is cooling the hoods bringing in outside air if I understood right, do you get any moisture touching the bulbs during rain storms?
Thanks for all of your answers.
Adieu

We got them locally from a very kind friend. The hoods are Cool Reflector 6". They are fairly large, about 20"x24", with a very nice reflector and a lot of cooling. They provide the 4'x4' light spread we are using in our room. I dont feel comfortable naming a price but they were cheap enough for us to afford em (and spending $5000+ on this room means every penny counts). As far as moisture, air is not being directly drawn from the outside, however we have some screens for whatever they will do. Its something to think about but there are a few twists in the line and a few screens implemented.

[MisterE]

Yeah cool, I have a digital also. It kicks ass.. I dont know why (other than cash) anyone would buy an old standard ballast anymore really. Digitals fire MH or HPS, run cool, run silent, have smoother power delivery, dont degrade every day, and maximize the output of the bulb. I'm keeping to very small personal grow, so all I needed was a 400watt.

I've had a thermometer placed right up next to my ballast (sits on a high shelf) and it's only 74 degrees or so.

[BlueBear]

Thanks for the answers RX, keep us posted.
Adieu

[Racerx]

Here are some pictures of the room from a bit ago. And some old pics of the plants. This is nearing transplantation. The ducting and fan is not hooked up in the pictures. No brand new pics yet.

[Racerx]

Ok so I have some changes from the original list of equipment. Here they are.

-One single 40 gallon reservoir, no gravity fed reservoir (we decided that we'd rather change out the entire nutrient solution once in awhile instead of always topping it off)
-Cool Reflector 6" hoods instead of the XL 8" hoods (we found that these cool better and the 8" ducts lose to much light out the ends and only a 6" fan is required to cool all 4 750 digital lights)
-8 socket CAP MLC-8A electrical box (Has 2 trigger cords so that 4 lamps are controlled by one trigger and the other 4 by the other trigger - 2 rooms one box). This is used instead of our homemade single trigger 6 outlet 240 box
-350gph water pump is enough, 500gph is not needed
-Only one single 10" Can Fan Maxx fan (not 2) needed for the room
-6" Can Fan for cooling the sealed lights instead of another 10" (10" was way overkill)
-Only one 35 watt airpump is more then enough for the entire 16 buckets, 85 watt not required and too loud)
-32 straight 1/4" barbs instead of 24
-100 feet of 1/2" OD for feed line
-120 feet 3/4" OD (not ID) return line
-100 feet of 1/4" OD (not ID) airhose
-50 feet of 1/4" OD (not ID) black hose for feed line
-120 7/8" hose clamps instead of 70 (This is a big deal, because hose clamps cost $0.80 each. Thats $100 in hose clamps)

Those are the big changes. We were able to reduce costs by over $500 by using the different hoods and getting rid of one of the Can Fan 10" Maxx fans (expensive). The new CAP MLC-8 240 box also allows us to use a single box for 2 of our grow rooms, saving space and increasing safety and control.

Its been difficult to get everything to be on the same plane, as everything must be exactly the same elevation or the buckets will have different water levels and not drain correctly. We had some nutrient burn from a little to much VitaBoost (wanted to experiment) but they are recovering just fine. More pictures soon.

[Racerx]

Ok, pictures from a couple weeks ago. Stuff is going great except for a 750 bulb blowing up. That was not fun, as 4 plants have been without light for the last 3 days. Suprisingly their growth seems to be right on track with the rest. Otherwise everything is going well and the growth is quite spectacular. We go into flowering at the end of next week. Since we are now at our spot for a little longer, we are able to get 2 grows on this system before dismantling it.

I posted an all around update in the Indoor Section if anyone is curious about our soil plants.

[MisterE]

Hey, have you been able to check how those ebb and flow fittings are working to keep roots from traveling down the outflow tubes from the buckets?

[Racerx]

Hey, have you been able to check how those ebb and flow fittings are working to keep roots from traveling down the outflow tubes from the buckets?

We use Ebb and Flow screens. They do a pretty good job of keeping the roots out. Since were only using a 350GPH pump, there isnt a terribly large amount of flow to really pull them down there and the airstone seems to help.

[MisterE]

Yeah I understand, thats cool.

I currently have just an open 1/2 inch fitting, and a couple of weeks ago I pulled at least 12 or 18 inches of roots out of there.. The plants in the container are really too big now for me to pop the lid and reach in and pull them again, so I'm just praying they dont clog it.

I'm planning ahead for upgrades and those fittings are definitely on the list.

You're room looks like it's working out pretty well! Plenty of room to grow christmas trees :pimp:

[Dazed4now]

badass setup ya got goin there
3000 watts of growing power, should yeild fat
good luck

[Racerx]

badass setup ya got goin there
3000 watts of growing power, should yeild fat
good luck

thanks for the kind words. gonna snap some more pictures tomorrow. they are pretty much doing amazing. we just now got the 1/4hp water chiller so thats going to take a lot of weight off my shoulder.

water has been about 74-75F in the daytime which is unacceptable for us. Ice buckets and cold water helped but with heat of the room it was inevitable. Anyways, water chiller goes in tomorrow and well be down to 67F in no time and I will be smiling as the roots get whiter and whiter.

The roots have already filled the entire 5 gallon buckets and the main roots coming out of the netpots are around 1/4" thick. The stems at the base of the plant are about 3/4" thick with the plants being about 1.5-2+ feet and about 2+ feet wide, topped a few times. The leaves are finally getting to be about 8"+.

We've changed around our original plan and decided to just run a sealed room. This enables us to take care of CO2 more easily and efficiently. A portable A/C will cool the room if needed instead of an exhaust fan. This is going to force us to change around our CO2 schedule a good deal so I am unsure at the moment. We will go through tanks faster but we might go for a steady rate for most of the day, letting it fall once in awhile and letting the room cool down a few times a day, possibly exhausting the CO2 but not as often as before. Well see.

We have had to adjust pH every day because our water is 6.9 pH. However the Advanced Nutrients pH down is so powerful that a teaspoon will drop 20 gallons over 3 points. We pH a little low, let it reciculate (takes a few minutes), then pH again and it stabilizes. PPM is at about 1300 at the moment of veg. They are absolutely positively loving it. Thats 2 parts Grow, 2 parts Micro, and 1 part bloom with Hygrozyme to keep things clean. Pics of the roots tomorrow.

PS. Also built a great new aerocloner from a 3 gallon rubbermaid storage container, little better looking then my other ghetto one. 28 sites with 2" collars. Trimmed the White Widow today at the bottom of small nodes and going to clone them all, throw them into 1 gallons and flower em in soil.

[Racerx]

Boom! Got some pictures! These are about a week behind.

[Racerx]

Few more pics. CO2 starts soon. We wont have any of that slight off white color roots when the water chiller is all hooked up.

Last one is some Trainwreck that was just harvested. Soil, but I thought it looked good.

[Racerx]

Got some more pictures, these are about 3 days after the other pictures to help illustrate the growth. Just trimming off the small inner growths to help focus the growth to the main bud sites was enough to make over a hundred clones which will go into a 4x8 flood and drain table with 6" square pots under 2 600 watt HPS lights in a little room, supplemented by CO2. More pics on that later.

the largest fan leaves are about 9" long, dwarfing my hand. temps have been focused around 75-80 F with the humidity down around 50% with the dehumidifier running nearly 24/7. Rigged up a nice little system that allows the dehumidifier to be hung up from an eyelet bolt through the ceiling and the water reservoir will drain the water into a 5 gallon bucket. This allows it to run 2-3 days without having to be switched out. A larger bucket could be used.

[Slackersulli]

Sick setup. Enjoy.

[Cyclonite]

Wow thats quite the investment...nice. I was looking at the 750 digital...that is the way to go. They are awesome, I will probley go with a 400 though since your grow dwarfs mine by far. Nice.:rasta:

[Racerx]

Wow thats quite the investment...nice. I was looking at the 750 digital...that is the way to go. They are awesome, I will probley go with a 400 though since your grow dwarfs mine by far. Nice.:rasta:

I would go with the 1000 digital or the 600 digital. Reason being, it gives you a shitload more choices of what type of bulb to run. You can also run metal halides in those lights. The problem with 750s is that there is only 1 bulb and 1 bulb only, a 750 watt Sylvania HPS. One of our bulbs went dead after 3 days, aparantly due to the igniter thingie being loose or something. Was warrantied but we had 4 days without light in one corner. However, as I somewhat suspected, those plants are catching up well and their difference is almost unnoticeable.

The 600 digital puts out nearly the lumens of a normal 1000 watt and they run incredibly cool (for an HPS).

[Cyclonite]

Hmmm didnt know that about the 750s...I guess the 600 would be a good choice....I know the 600 is the most efficient in the traditional ballast world. I already have a 400watt HPS and a 400 watt MH that work fine...but knowing what I could have just eats at me. I may just rip the ballast out of my 400 HPS and use the hood socket and everything.

[Racerx]

Update. 1.5 weeks into flowering. Going strong. 1600ppm with 1/2/3 of Grow, Micro, and Bloom and 150ppm of Big Bud. 500ml of Hygrozyme (stuff works beautifully at keeping things clean).

[JackdaWack]

dude!! how do u walk around the room! haha siiick set up man, it is really making me debate putting together a small 6 plant setup this same way, I always have been intreasted in the recirculating dwc, i have been thinking about getting a fogger setup too, but 300 bucks for a fogger.. eh might be worth it.
Your girls look a bit yellow in the pics is that just the camera and lighting?

[Racerx]

dude!! how do u walk around the room! haha siiick set up man, it is really making me debate putting together a small 6 plant setup this same way, I always have been intreasted in the recirculating dwc, i have been thinking about getting a fogger setup too, but 300 bucks for a fogger.. eh might be worth it.
Your girls look a bit yellow in the pics is that just the camera and lighting?

just the camera and the lighting. they are a vibrant wonderful green.

[doco]

Looks fantastic RacerX, but I would not have expected anything less from you. Your advice always has the tone of experience behind it but this is the first time Ive seen it in action.

btw, what size pump do you recommend for the recirculating bucket (that feeds back to the res)? I'm going to get a Waterfarm going and liked the way you did the recirculating waterfarm on that thread.

[Racerx]

Looks fantastic RacerX, but I would not have expected anything less from you. Your advice always has the tone of experience behind it but this is the first time Ive seen it in action.

btw, what size pump do you recommend for the recirculating bucket (that feeds back to the res)? I'm going to get a Waterfarm going and liked the way you did the recirculating waterfarm on that thread.

For 16 buckets we use a 350 GPH pump. This is plenty and the feed line into the buckets is pretty strong so it spatters against the netpot, keeping the Rockwool moist, and helps create that humid environment between the water and the top of the bucket. You could get away with smaller pump but it wouldn't be as effective. A larger pump would work as well, but the water might come out a little too fast. With the 350, it takes less then 10 minutes for everything to completely recirculate which makes pH balancing and nutrients a breeze; add stuff, wait a few minutes, double check, and your good to go.

One thing I will definitely say is absolutely necessary is the gravity reservoir. We thought we could get away without it and just add water/nutes on our own until we grew comfortable with the system. That was a mistake. The plants are so huge and hungry that they drink about 6-7 gallons of water a day...atleast!!! That means I am topping off with water and nutrients everyday which is sort of a pain. With a gravity fed reservoir that has a float valve, everytime the water gets low...more is let in. Luckily we already had the parts for it.

Last, if you are able to get a water chiller (something that is almost mandatory for DWC), remember that the chiller itself does not have a pump. You must pump water through the chiller so a larger pump is sometimes needed. This depends on the # of buckets, the amount of water you have, the elevation of the tubing, etc.

For DWC systems, the feed line can do whatever you want, but the return line must be COMPLETELY even and flat against the ground because it uses gravity to drain. This means that if one of the return hoses is an inch off the ground, it is not draining correctly and not getting the flow of water it should have.

To date, we have had absolutely no leaks whatsoever.

[JackdaWack]

This is 100% the best dwc thread.

[Da1KrayzieThug]

This is 100% the best dwc thread.

There was another really good one a while back. Can't remember the name at all, but I remember the grow was pretty sick.

[Da1KrayzieThug]

http://boards.cannabis.com/advanced-techniques/12528-dwc-1000w-works.html

Found it. Simple yet effective.

EDIT: But I do have to admit this grow is pretty sick. All the money invested into what you know about growing seems like it's going to workout for you.

Goodluck <3

[Racerx]

we are having such success with the large system that we are going to replace one of our soil closets with a small, 4 bucket version of the big room. Watering 32 tightly packed sea-of-green plants is a huge pain in the ass. We have the materials for it left over from the big system. This closet will essentially be four 5 gallon buckets, recirculating with a 20 gallon reservoir. A small 10 gallon gravity reservoir will be hung in the corner near the door from the ceiling (with eyelet bolts through the ceiling into a 2x4). There will be a 2"x2" screen that is 5'x4' in the entire 5'x5' closet space, the clones will be topped a considerable amount. The two 600 watt digital HPS lights currently in the closet will be replaced by a single 1000 watt digital HPS light with a Cool Reflector XL 8" hood. This will save energy and hopefully provide a more uniform and square light spread. A 30 pint dehumidifier hanging in the opposite corner, draining into a 3 gallon bucket near the door, will take care of humidity. 2 oscillating fans move around air. Co2 is probably going to be skipped on this first closet grow so we can compare. Strain will be Blueberry.

[BlazeIdo]

RacerX, Could you explain in a little more detail how to set up the gravity reservoir with the float valve. I've never used a float valve and im not really how they work. Peace

[BlazeIdo]

Also during this grow did you take the buckets out and clean them, or did the cool temps and hygrozyme keep it clean enough.

[BlazeIdo]

I just researched the gravity rez and float valves so that cleared that up. I do have one more question about your system though. The water in the control rez is kept at the exact height you want the water in the buckets at correct? So then where does the water pump get incorporated into moving all the water around? Is the pump just in the rez split four ways into the white tubing and then clamped off at the end and then split again into the buckets? Hope that made sense. Peace

[Racerx]

I just researched the gravity rez and float valves so that cleared that up. I do have one more question about your system though. The water in the control rez is kept at the exact height you want the water in the buckets at correct? So then where does the water pump get incorporated into moving all the water around? Is the pump just in the rez split four ways into the white tubing and then clamped off at the end and then split again into the buckets? Hope that made sense. Peace

Blaze, the water pump sits inside the control reservoir. One end has a prefilter and sucks water from the reservoir. The out of the pump is 1/2" tubing which goes into the SINGLE 1/2" feed line. The feed line is then split into 4 lines afterwords. The end of the each 4 lines is capped and the 1/4" barbs get put into this. You could remove the pump from the reservoir and use 3/4" tubing to draw water from the reservoir but I have a chiller and it keeps the noise down.

Here are some updated pictures. We are a little over 3 weeks into bloom. CO2 is 1500ppm. temps are 88F. Humidity is 55-60% in the day, 35% at night with 72F.

[Racerx]

here are some better pictures, lights off, gives better idea of the girth they already have at 3 weeks

[BlazeIdo]

What about as far as cleaning the buckets during rez changes. Not needed?

[JamaicanHerbMan]

Yo breadrin Nice setup mon , them girls looking nice and fat. How much do you think you'll pull per light racerx. I saw your goal for 2 lbs per light do you think you'll pull it off ...... respect and keep up the good work

[nubz.the.lizard]

wow, cant wait to see the next series of pix. how much time do you spend a day to keep up with the maitenence on those things??

[Dr.Hashman]

When I first saw the setup with small plants in it, I thought that you were wasting room, not that i see them all branched out and big, that place is crammed! You could supply a whole state with that setup lol.

[fhydro]

Hi Racer X, first of all, congratulations for your amazing set up. Did you experience ait stone clogging, and what do you do to prevent this, what is the kind and the performances of the air pomp.
Thanks.
Fhydro

[latewood]

Hey racerx. I just wanted to give you the heads up. I got some Hammerhead. I also have tweaked my formula and you wouldn't believe what I did. remember my "flower" formula used grow then cut it out. well all the extra potassium is in the grow, Micro - no phosphates or potassium in to speak of...
Safe formula: .5 - 1 - 2 for 2-4 weeks, then 0 - 1 - 2...

New Accelerated formula: 1- 1 - 2 for 2-4 weeks, and then .5 - .5 - 3

I looked at your ideas, and I got to thinking...I was trying to make a safe program at the time, but now I want to tweak that formula up.
so what do you think?

[Racerx]

Hey racerx. I just wanted to give you the heads up. I got some Hammerhead. I also have tweaked my formula and you wouldn't believe what I did. remember my "flower" formula used grow then cut it out. well all the extra potassium is in the grow, Micro - no phosphates or potassium in to speak of...
Safe formula: .5 - 1 - 2 for 2-4 weeks, then 0 - 1 - 2...

New Accelerated formula: 1- 1 - 2 for 2-4 weeks, and then .5 - .5 - 3

I looked at your ideas, and I got to thinking...I was trying to make a safe program at the time, but now I want to tweak that formula up.
so what do you think?

I would be excited to hear the results. I think it is funny that I may have helped you consider a more aggressive formula...yet you have caused me to consider a less aggressive formula or at least to try one!!! I am going to do a significantly less aggressive schedule with the Blueberrys which are just about rooted (also because I'm under the impression they don't like nutes as much as a big yielder like Widow) but I will be generally keeping to my original formula just with less ppm. I also am completely getting rid of Big Bud and all additives except Hygrozyme. I really think that we should not compare a strictly Grow/Micro/Bloom formula to one that uses additives. I know that if I used more PK boosters or the recommended dosage of Big Bud that I might have toxic levels of bloom nutrients or I might need to skimp too hard on the macro nutrients in order to keep PPMs at safe levels.

Running a strictly g/m/b formula with no additives allows you to run huge amounts of bloom which in my opinion can do almost everything that the P & K additives can. I want to try no Big Bud and then compare it again. I am planning on maxing out at about 1300ppm (maybe 1400) since it is still a DWC. Ill print a planned schedule for the nutes tonight with the slightly altered formula.

I wanted to take a quick moment to update people and answer the questions above. First and foremost, I use a 35 watt Ecoplus single outlet airpump. it has a 6 way splitter. I then just use 1/4" T's and I use the one single pump for all 16 buckets. I use a separate small airpump for the control and gravity reservoir. I do use airstones, HOWEVER, I am now strictly a believer that they are a headache and nothing else. Ive now see some good data that shows there is no advantage to running an airstone, except that it is quieter. A few of my airstones fell off in the beginning of this White Widow grow and I specifically never fixed it. There is not one single difference. Beautiful root structure, white as pearls. Aside from that, I dont have a problem with them clogging. Because I have a water chiller and run 68 degrees 24/7 and because I use Hygrozyme (amazing how clean it keeps stuff) I have no problem with any type of scum. I also use a lot of micro.

The system is getting cut. I need to harvest a week earlier then expected in order to get an appraisal on the house. Everything getting taken down in the entire house this week. My goodness I am looking forward too it. Its been months and months since I had peace and quiet without the thumping of airpumps, the whoosh of inline fans, the bubbling of water, and the odd creaks that oscillating fans make. There is going to be MAJOR changes in the sealed room, as this is the largest sealed room I have done and I learned a lot.

MOST SPECIFICALLY, we are downgrading in size if you didnt catch that earlier. 16 buckets is too much. We are doing one single rectangle canopy with 12 buckets instead of 2 rows of 8 buckets. Screen of green. This will allow us to aggressively control growth. I decided I would be happy to give up 2 pounds in harvest in order to have freedom walking around the grow room. If I did this for money I would have done things a lot differently so it is a small sacrifice. The A/C is getting set inside the new window box (which is getting some wood framing for strengthening). This will finally allow us to recirculate the air inside the room and use outside air to cool the inside air...hence no loss in CO2. We are also relocating the dehumidifier and we have a slick system of moving around around the room, both under and above the canopy. The A/C will still vent into the attic, no signs of mold or anything up there so the moist air seems to be ok, luckily it is very large.

We are also raising all the buckets by 4" which will allow us even more water in the reservoir (about another 12 gallons, total system up to about 90). Upgrading from a 32 gallon gravity rez to a 55 gallon. The raised buckets will allow airflow under them and the point is to get rid of a place where water can gather. A big upgrade is also wrapping the buckets AND the feed lines for all the buckets with insulation. This has been a big problem, because the water temp is more then 20 degrees cooler then the rooms ambient temp and the water condensation causes high humidity. So there you go. No camera at the moment but I should have some harvest pics soon. Im not worried about weight, should be well over 4 pounds, but cutting the flowering short will hurt the potency. There were some mistakes made and a lot of changes that need to be made so I am satisfied enough with the first run. I am very excited to have learned from those mistakes and see the difference.

Finally...my 20 gallon bubblebags (8 bag kit) will be here tomorrow or wednesday. Time to make some bombass bubble hash the pro way, 1 pound of shake at a time. My friends with the 20 gallon kits say they are getting nearly an ounce of hash from every pound of trimming. Ive got about 8 pounds of it and much of it is buds.

[Racerx]

whoops I forgot to mention Latewood that I like the sound of your new formula but I just wonder if there would be a lack of the micro nutrients that micro provides? I have done a similar formula before and I found that I started to get really light green colored leaves and that the buds burned easily, like bleached not actually burned. However that was with my Trainwreck which is very picky with nutes. I tried raising the micro and lowering the grow but it wasn't until I was giving it significant micro that I was able to remedy the problem. When I had too much bloom compared to micro is when I was getting the burning.

Who knows, all strains and environments can act strangely and maybe this pheno just didnt like what I was giving it at the time.

Honestly Latewood, to this date, some of the best herb I have produced came from Flora Nova, the 1 part system. I did one grow with Veg and Bloom, Trainwreck and G13 (my first DWC setup too) and got great results in both yield and potency. Great stuff. Next one I did with just Flora Nova Bloom, no veg, just with ever increasing amounts (maxing out at about 1700ppm). Beautiful green leaves, no deficiencies, tap water, and yielded more then the first one I did. I mentioned before somewhere that people are using doing ENTIRE grows with only Bloom. Can you believe that? Freakin nuts. Now some of my friends are experimenting with just Micro and Bloom. But you are right, you do lose some key elements that I would think the plants would need. Yet why are the people using Micro and Bloom getting buds the size of their forearms? Honestly I think that merely proves you could use almost any nutrient out there if you have every single other aspect of the grow dialed.

Simplicity is key, even I forget that sometimes.

[latewood]

I have used many aggressive formulas in the past. I had most of the AN line throughout my 1st year...I just kept using less and less and achieving better results each time. I love Hygrozyme, but haven't used it in a while. When I used mostly AN and followed the calculator.I used 3-part, LiquidKarma, Humic Acid, Hygrozyme or sensi-zyme. Voodoojuice in this recipe for a while. add "BUDBlood" 1stweek of flower only, then wk2-6 add "BigBud" until week 6-7, Switch to "Overdrive". flush a week later. That was a POTENT recipe!

Now I took safe recipe; And I added hammerhead, change Micro to -.5 Grow to -1, and bloom to -3 truned out that when I made 5 gallons it was EC1.5/=1150 ppm I add a dose of Hammerhead0-9-18 30ml (this is where I am getting phosphates and a big potassium boost Calmmag+ 20ml, and Liquid Karma 40ml, to achieve the full EC2.0/=1500 ppm I want for flower. Neat'HUH? Ok back later.

I had to laugh when you mentioned cleaning up and no more water drips, or bubblers, or creaky fans...roflmao My fans have scared the shit out of me a few times late at night. Cats jumping on the roof and fans squeakin :eek: OH MY!

[Abunai]

Awesome :D

[BlazeIdo]

RacerX, Do your root buckets get cleaned between water changes or do your low temps and hygrozyme keep everything clean enough? Peace

[Racerx]

RacerX, Do your root buckets get cleaned between water changes or do your low temps and hygrozyme keep everything clean enough? Peace

Blaze, there is absolutely no cleaning necessary. I dont even need to clean them between grows! But I do of course, but there is nothing to wash. Not even the airstones.

I wanted to update anyone who was curious, but this has been cut down and gone for a bit. For various reasons I needed to clean house and its been amazing to have a few weeks of silence! Except for the bubble hash making and trimming, its been wonderful. Thats all changed again!! The revised room is nearly done and wow what a difference! We have about 25 more square feet of room to work with. More on that later. Because we had to cut early, and we actually did have a hermaphrodite problem at the end. It showed up just early enough that if we kept things going another 2-3 weeks there would have been some seeds. Still got plenty of good buds and a few pounds of weight, plus a LOT of stuff for the bubble bags. The product...well it was good enough but not up to my standards, and it was obvious that after around 6 weeks things slowed down like they shouldn't have. After a few weeks of curing, it definitely taste great and gets the job done well, but our Cindy 99 soil grow really blew it away, and I pretty much attribute it to genetics.

The Cindy 99 genetics are beautiful and while I had great results before, this last pull was just spectacular. Besides pulling over 2 pounds from a 5x5 closet, the product was gorgeous, just dripping with THC and a smell/taste that is so exotic its almost too pungent. Like tropical candy, almost to the point of being disgusting!!! We knew off the start that the White Widow genetics we used for the hydro room were not A quality, but due to time constraints we had to compromise, and I learned my lesson the compromising will never end up the way you want it.

But the biggest changes to the room involve tons more space to move around, less buckets, and more controlled vertical growth. The new window box is significantly smaller and only sticks out 4" from the wall, whereas before it was over a foot. The construction is sturdier with 2x4s for bracing and everything is just 10x more solid. But the biggest change is the 10,000 BTU window A/C unit instead of the portable A/C. This has the recirculating feature, allowing us to exchange no smell or air with the outside. Since it is summer around here soon, its not very suspicious either. The hoods still draw air from the window box for air cooling, from the very top of the window, where a piece of acrylic looks like a professional window surrounding the A/C, but we have designed a way to allow the hoods to draw air conditioned air, but I dont think it will be needed. I am looking forward to the screen for ease of bending them over and avoiding tieing down. I have always had great results with this and it allows really even light distribution. Once again we will be chopping all the small branches/leaves out the bottom and middle. Buckets are raised 4" off the ground to allow more water in the reservoir.

We have also built a box to enclose the dehumidifier, which will allow us to either vent it or re-direct the hot air to the top of the room where it can evenly distribute instead of being concentrated in one area. Open to suggestions on how to use the dehumidifier to our best, but hopefully with the A/C we will not require it during the day.

About it for now, pictures eventually.

[BlazeIdo]

Im guessing you dont use Liquid Karma. Thats what seems to be the gunkiest. Peace