Latewood's Legacy: GH 3-part and CalMag tutorial and discussion

[latewood]

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: http://hygronomics.com/forum1 post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.

[BlueBear]

Thank you very much for posting this LW. With this 3 part feeding sched along with the CM and the LQ how many res changes do you do??? How long are you veging when you grow fewer plants with this formula? What is a fair yield with this formula with a average yielding strain compared to the Lucas schedule with the same strain? Also, what is your current set up like, as far as buckets, I can't find any recent grow logs or posts where you break down your bucket and light set up.
Adieu

[latewood]

Thank you very much for posting this LW. With this 3 part feeding sched along with the CM and the LQ how many res changes do you do??? How long are you veging when you grow fewer plants with this formula? What is a fair yield with this formula with a average yielding strain compared to the Lucas schedule with the same strain? Also, what is your current set up like, as far as buckets, I can't find any recent grow logs or posts where you break down your bucket and light set up.
Adieu

let me see...I don't count rez changes...I just follow regimen, until one day I decide to finish the plant and use overdrive, (I mix overdrive with the 3-part and no furhter LK or CM+ at this point which means that I will be going into the last 3-4 weeks topping off with plain water.

From seed I veg* 2 months (normal veg length) vegging less that that is considered a shortened veg period. You get away with 2-4 weeks of veg with clones, because they retain age of mother...Also finish time variies in conjunction with length of veg time...the longer you veg the longer it takes to mature and finish...However, just remember that shorter veg periods cut down on yield considerably
*you don't count seedling/cutting rooting time for veg. veg should be implemented with nutrients when you get at least 4-5 alternating nodes and plant is well rooted.

I don't estimate yields, but I would say that I almost double the lucas method yield w/this formula, maybe??? (plants just get much bigger)...

Well last time I used the simple independent 5 gallon buckets.

I use 5 gallon bucket bubblers...10, 18, and 35 gallon sterlite tubs.
I have a couple aero set-ups I built in the 10 and 18 gallon tubs
I use drip system like in Madman goes aero...built w/10gallon tubs.

I use 45w cfl's and 4' tubes for rooting and seedlings
I use a 400w MH and a 1000w MH for veg..sometimes the plants take off so much that I flower in week 5-6 to keep height down, but I lose some yield...It is a matter of timing my finish so I don't run out of Meds.

In Flower I use a 1000w MH and switch to a 1000w EYE'hortilux hps
I also use a 250w hps to flower smaller potted plants (sweet)

Lastly...I stopped all grow logs at point of proving systems worked. I occasionally show a few piks here and there of plants close to harvest. I plan on showing a couple of the 5 gallon bucket plants...a fantasma(AK-47) and a "fine" tied over NYCD..., but since becoming mod and being out in the open, so to speak, I have chosen the more cautious road...I don't post my rooms or set-ups anymore. (If I grow at all) ala Zandor...You have to brag in moderation due to the current political climate...know what I mean? Vern. Hope this helps you all out. peace

[BlueBear]

Thanks LW, and yes I understand the log and pics thinggy. Well, it seems like you are truly a mad man with all of your different grow systems.
Do you think that from clone in a DWC with 4 compared to 8 weeks veg the yield is half???
Well catch you around Vern. LOL
Adieu

[Stuper Star]

I don't estimate yields, but I would say that I almost double the lucas method yield w/this formula, maybe??? (plants just get much bigger)...


So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all:)

[latewood]

So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all:)What I can say...My plants are 2wice as big when introduced to flower. Using grow part definitely increases yield, and I would have to say yes, but basically I am telling you what I have seen by growing with 1-1-1...then using a tweaked advanced nutrient formula...trying lucas for 3-4 grows and coming back to this formula which is just what I came up with through a couple years of experimentation with 3-part. I don't see this as a small tweak either...I see adding grow to equal parts of micro and bloom squewes the formula a tremendous amount when you look at the difference in Nitrogen values throughout veg.

Everytime I have used a 1-1-1 in veg with a value of 1=8ml per gallon, I experience another whole level of growth and harvest very large bushes. Of course growing methods and experience play a large part in any grow. I get 1/2-3/4lb easy out of 1-5 gallon bucket with an airstone.
This is with full veg time of at least 8 weeks. You don't get the bigger yields off of taking shortcuts, lol...folks

believe it or not. I am not bragging...I am trying to help. I have tried all kinds of grows both soil and hydro and combined side by sides...Using Lucas Formula, I could never get my yield anywhere near what I expected or wanted to achieve.:smokin:peace

[Weedhound]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Straightforward, easy to understand and all those GREAT little details you don't think of when first getting directions for things that you have to stop and go find out in the middle of the operation. Love it!!

[Stuper Star]

Baby Geebuzz....did I ever stick my foot down my throat...especially being a noob here:o
My apologies Latewood:silly: I was tired and kinda bitchy when I seemed to fixate on your yield claim. And the kicker is that I was thinking I have seen decent yields with ONLY a 0-1-2ratio mix...but that is not true as I now recollect better. Because the veg was in fact done with 3-2-1. Only the flower stage was done with 0-1-2 (varying between 0-6ml-12ml and 0-8ml-16ml per gal)

[xcrispi]

no shit ,
thx for the bump bear !!!
sup latewood ?
i guess i inadvertently just did what your thread here explains as far as very very lil grow in begining n quit it completely once we went to 12/12 due to lack of headroom in basement . lol . only 6'2". n it sux . i had just asked bear about the low p/h deal at last cpl. weeks of flowering n what it acomplished . i had read pt. of this thread when it was new a while bk. lol . short term memory n shit .
i am now sworn to farms / n buckets man . i'm having incredible luck n killer yields . 4 buckets is yeilding me what 50-60 plants was using sog in dirt . it takes a lil longer to flower crazy 8-10 headed mutant monsters but man is it worth it !!! like 36in round and 4 1/2 ft. tall . i got up to 17 o's . ea. using independent 5 gal bukts . n thats w/ heat stress n mistakes lol . my current gro is my first almost stress free hydro grow yet n i'm blown away w/ the speed of things . i much appreciate all the helpful input , info and advice that you n bluebaer have had to offer . i'll leave you guys some good karma .
peace
your cuz
crispi

[L3G10N]

Lw, can this method be applied to soil grow? Or can you receommend a good method for soil? Im not ready to try Hydro just yet. Current nutes i have are GH 3 part, and some Foxfarm flowering nutes, Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz and Cha-ching. I do plan on getting some Liquid Karma in the near future.

[latewood]

Baby Geebuzz....did I ever stick my foot down my throat...especially being a noob here:o
My apologies Latewood:silly: I was tired and kinda bitchy when I seemed to fixate on your yield claim. And the kicker is that I was thinking I have seen decent yields with ONLY a 0-1-2ratio mix...but that is not true as I now recollect better. Because the veg was in fact done with 3-2-1. Only the flower stage was done with 0-1-2 (varying between 0-6ml-12ml and 0-8ml-16ml per gal)

Hey It's OK No worries...I keep thinking of that australian hack'em'up movie...the guy kept telling the soon to hacked up girls..."NO worries"

Anyway...I tried 3-2-1...1-2-3 my 1st grow...I got too much early stretching, and foliage with that formula, and I found that using more nutes...like, 3-2-1 pretty much adds too much foliage...after many trials I have come to the conclusion that more foliage, DOES NOT=more buddage. So try 1-1-1 next time you grow stuperstar.

Now for the record... The 1st cut from 1 plant (mostly tops...), under 1000w horti...in a 5 g bubbler with 1 airstone...using the recipe above...yielded me 4-1/2 Oz. I still have the lower 1/2 of the plant finishing... I might be persuaded to post a couple piks later...You have the right idea, I would just recommend adding nitrogen (G) a little longer.

[latewood]

So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all:)
Just for fun...I figured out my estimated grams per watt on this last grow...Keep in mind that I could've added 2 more 1/2-3/4lb bushes in the same space...

I already harvested Misty Blue clones in room 1/4lb=4oz=
(4x28.4=1.6+32+80=)113.6grams
I have partially harvested Fantasma(AK-47x) that will yield an estimated 1/2lb...1/2lb=8oz=
(8x28.4 3.2+64+160=)227.2grams
Last plant NYCD will go at least 3/4lb...So 3/4lb+12oz=
(12x28.4=4.8+96+240=)340.8grams...So;
113.6+227.2+340.8=681.6grams. So I got .6816 grams per watt.
Now 1 gram per watt is unbelievable, but attainable and 1/2 gram per watt is commendable...So I am very happy with .6816 grams per watt.

another note: No co2 was used...No ventilation system was used. Grows are in a room with ac and de-humidifier, (I think this de-humid...raised my yield about 2x's) I was having trouble with humidity in the 70%'s and now with humidity ranging around 35-44%...I got much heavier buds.

Once again...I will say that I could've grown 2-4 more plants, equalling a larger yield, but Growing less plants has shown me healthier and much bigger undergrowth, as well as larger yields per plant...Would you be happy if in the last 4 months you grew 1-1/2lbs??? I am. thanks for the excitment...peace Latewood

[latewood]

L3gion...Of course, I posted this in indoor growing because it is the same formula I use for both soil and hydro. peace

BTW, FYI Hydro is easy as you make it!

[Stuper Star]

...Would you be happy if in the last 4 months you grew 1-1/2lbs??? I am.
Per 1000W? Well...yes and no I suppose. It is surely better than a swift kick in the ass...but if you're asking for me to comment based on what I am used to seeing per 1K...it's more like 1.5lb per 1K every 9wks, 10 tops...including veg....not 12wks. If I ever went 12wks total, I'd expect 2+lbs.
BUT...absolutely, to have 1.5 when it's all said and done is by no means shabby:smokin:


PS...the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to try your exact ratios on a test section next time around. So 1/1/1, (by itself?), gives you nice, healthy vegetative growth does it?

[latewood]

Per 1000W? Well...yes and no I suppose. It is surely better than a swift kick in the ass...but if you're asking for me to comment based on what I am used to seeing per 1K...it's more like 1.5lb per 1K every 9wks, 10 tops...including veg....not 12wks. If I ever went 12wks total, I'd expect 2+lbs.
BUT...absolutely, to have 1.5 when it's all said and done is by no means shabby:smokin:


PS...the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to try your exact ratios on a test section next time around. So 1/1/1, (by itself?), gives you nice, healthy vegetative growth does it?That was a rhetorical question. This grow was from seeds...You couldn't achieve that yield from seedlings in 9weeks.
Now cloning...a different story.

Hey that is cool you want to try values...I think you will like this recipe...especially if your grows are as efficient as you claim...
I on the other hand am a little lazy and don't max out my yields...I know...wasteful, but once I got my regimen perfected I quit worrying about how much...as long as I have my meds.
1-1.2lb every 3-4 months works for me.
Now that doesn't mean I won't preach the correct way to newbs, but I don't want to get burnt out worrying about a few ounces, anymore.

[BlueBear]

Hay LW, in the last 3/4 weeks of flower when a PK boost comes in do you still use the 0-1-2, and CalMag? Also, have your yields in dirt been close to your bucket yields??
Thanks for any answers.
Adieu

[latewood]

I assume you mean last 3-4 weeks...I don't use booster. that's the point of thread. I do like and will use until I run out; Overdrive the last week or 2 before final phase flush week.

My last 4-5 weeks:
every 5 gallons 40ml micro-80ml bloom-15ml calmag+.
when plants start to finish, and I see amber color trichs, I add Overdrive to mix for a week or 2 and flush a week

In a side by side comparison between dirt and hydro bucket. Yeah right! lol. Not even close enough to compare. Maybe if you had the ability to grow outside in the sun, but not indoors. No way. Not in the same time frame.

[latewood]

If I had a bottle of coolbloom or whatever. I owuld use it. I just would heavy dose anything, just use it to boost ratios.

if you are doing coco and pouring everyday, that is still hydro.

[bigbud751]

I still don't understand the 1-1-1 and all the ratios yet. I am trying to learn. To make it easier could you please list the brand of nutrients and list their names? I want to follow this exact. Would 2, 6 plant, 6 gal. resavoirs work good with these nutes and a 1k light? Anything else I need in there besides an airstone? I have to keep a better eye on nutes and change water more often.

[BlueBear]

The brand is GH Fluora 3 part. There 3 different bottles that make up the nutes. In the dosage 1 eaquals 5ML per gallon so with something like 1-1-1 means that you add 5ML of each of the 3 bottles, Micro, Grow and Bloom. If the dosage called for 0-2-2 you would leav out say the grow and add 10ML of micro and Bloom. LW explains it in his first post fairly well. He also uses Cal Mag and Super thrive along with Liquid Karma and pretty much follows the feeding dosage from the bottles.
LW, I would like to know how you feed your plants before they reach the point where they can use the 3 part?
Adieu

[latewood]

1st. although you got the explanation right. I use 8ml per gallon =1 unless otherwise specified. less in veg and a little more in flower.

I use well water 167ppm and add 1/4tsp superthrive per gallon to my well water. After rooting, or when placing seedlings in dwc. I use ro water, and liquid Karma ph 5.8. That way I acclimate the young plants to all the elements of nutrients...Within a week roots are crazy and proceed to
1-1-1=8ml-8ml-8ml of G-M-B of any companies 3-part.
We use General Hydroponics, which is what Advanced Nutrients copied for their 3-part.
So that way, you can buy GH without everybody being sure about what you grow.
make sure you have a way to keep ph consistantly around 5.8.
That, in it self is probably the most important aspect of steering clear of problems in the 1st place.

[BlazeIdo]

Latewood , How much Liquid Karma after initial clone rooting and for about how long? Interesting about how the LK acclimates clones for full nutes so early. explain please...:jointsmile: Also Just to get this straight, for the flower assuming 8 week finish time, it would be (week 1-4, 3-part .25-1-2, weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+) (week 5, 3-part 0-1-2,weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+) (week 6-7, 3-part 0-1-2, Overdrive, Plain RO topoffs) (week 8 flush). If Overdrive is not used should the Top offs with LK and Calmag+ still be stopped for the last 2 weeks of nutes? Kinda confused on that. In your opinion will this formula work better with or without the overdrive. Its been back and forth.

[BlazeIdo]

[/QUOTE]My last 4-5 weeks:
every 5 gallons 40ml micro-80ml bloom-15ml calmag+.
when plants start to finish, and I see amber color trichs, I add Overdrive to mix for a week or 2 and flush a week

[/QUOTE]

Is the 15ml of calmag+ a topoff value?

[Racerx]

Latewood. Have you ever tried Advanced? The only reason I ask is because I have found its pretty much the same thing as GH...but more concentrated. Ever experienced this or considered it?

Anyways, to date the best stuff we have grown has been from 3 part and Growth Excel (a seaweed foliar spray). If your using all those additives, to keep the PPM low enough you need to skimp on the main nutrients which I really think is all they need. Have you considered dropping the Grow all together? Seems many people these days are doing entire cycles with just micro and bloom. I mean the Micro has more nitrogen then the grow. We use a 2/2/1 for veg of Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Before we were going 1/2/2 for the first 2 weeks of flower. Now we are going directly to 1/2/3. We will stay at 1/2/3 until about week 5 where we will go into 1/2/4 or just 0/2/4. PPM maxes out at about 1800-2000, our water is 220ppm. week 7.5 we drop ppm to 1200. Week 8.5 we drop to water and flushing again. Flush for 4 days.

This is just 3 part. 1 week into flower.

[latewood]

1.
Latewood , How much Liquid Karma after initial clone rooting and for about how long?



2. Interesting about how the LK acclimates clones for full nutes so early. explain please...:jointsmile:



3. Also Just to get this straight, for the flower assuming 8 week finish time, it would be (week 1-4, 3-part .25-1-2, weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+)


(week 5, 3-part 0-1-2,weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+)


(week 6-7, 3-part 0-1-2, Overdrive, Plain RO topoffs) (week 8 flush). If


4. Overdrive is not used should the Top offs with LK and Calmag+ still be stopped for the last 2 weeks of nutes? Kinda confused on that.



In your opinion will this formula work better with or without the overdrive. Its been back and forth.
1.[color=blue]I use it as staed in the original text of this thread. 40ml per 5g[/blue]

2.[color=blue]read the Liquid Karma label...then get back to me. the label should answer your Q[/blue]

3.[color=blue]week1...veg nutes1-1-1, week2-3...25-1-2,
week4-7...0-1-2. add to 0-1-2 week 6 and/or 7. I use it one week. no LK or calmag after week 5 top-off with ph'd water. [/blue]

4.[color=blue]NO on the Liquid K or calmag...don't need it! overdrive is opitonal...it is nice the way it draws the oils out, but is not necessary for a healthy harvest[/blue]



:smokin:

[latewood]

Latewood. Have you ever tried Advanced? The only reason I ask is because I have found its pretty much the same thing as GH...but more concentrated. Ever experienced this or considered it?

Anyways, to date the best stuff we have grown has been from 3 part and Growth Excel (a seaweed foliar spray). If your using all those additives, to keep the PPM low enough you need to skimp on the main nutrients which I really think is all they need. Have you considered dropping the Grow all together? Seems many people these days are doing entire cycles with just micro and bloom. I mean the Micro has more nitrogen then the grow. We use a 2/2/1 for veg of Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Before we were going 1/2/2 for the first 2 weeks of flower. Now we are going directly to 1/2/3. We will stay at 1/2/3 until about week 5 where we will go into 1/2/4 or just 0/2/4. PPM maxes out at about 1800-2000, our water is 220ppm. week 7.5 we drop ppm to 1200. Week 8.5 we drop to water and flushing again. Flush for 4 days.

This is just 3 part. 1 week into flower.Did you read the beginning of this thread? Or just peruse the values...I thought that I clearly explained my findings/opinions on whether or not to use grow. I only drop grow starting in week 3-4 of flower.

I do not believe in the Lucas method...leaving grow out of the mix. I believe that the Lucas method is best used for folks with limited grow space and/or height restrictions!

all what additives??? my EC is never above 2.1 You use way stronger mix than I do!

"our water is 220ppm." I stated I use ro water...0 ppm, makes a huge difference. **calmag+ replenishes those essential elements that the ro process removes...except now. You have a perfect compliment of those elements. It doesn't add hardly any ppm. Of course.

**I believe that I mentioned this clearly in the article.

dude I am averaging 1/2 -3/4 lb which was my target...I get gooey ass finger hashin buds...that cure into sweet knock your dick in the dirt reefer. That's all I want. perfect 3-4 foot bushes...that bud out bigtime. Last time we figured it out, I was getting .65g per watt. Fair enough I say.

another note...I do not like the 3-2-1/1-2-3 formula either...In veg it is too stringy a plant with a lot of leaves. this is an outdoor formula In flower...good possibility of toxic shock. No I have found my happy photosynthesis, and I shared this info for people who would like a simple fool proof recipe.

In my opinion hardcore heavy feedings just present more problems and potential for failure. I wish you luck with your way...It seems to work for you.

And in closing; Advanced nutrients is an exact copy of General Hydroponics 3-part. They merely repackaged...might've tweaked it a minute bit...but, Advanced has done this with countless other companies products. Do I like Advanced Nutrients. Great stuff. Some new things. Hammerhead 0-11-19; I think. Looks very promising and is more on the money than pk 13-14, and for about 1/3-1/2 the cost!...less phosphates-more potassium....yeah!!! I want a bottle:smokin:

I have used AN 3-part, Voodoo Juice, Bud Blood (another copy), BigBud, Iguana Juice (crap)...want some? final phase, sensizyme, B-52, Carboload,
ph up/down...probably gh up/down??? maybe a couple more. I have to go look in the nostalgic bottle pile.

Now I hope I wasn't to blunt in my answers, but I have been working all night, and some of your question's were answered above. peace

later folks. lw

[Racerx]

I didnt read the whole thread with detail, I was just curious about that stuff. I was not challenging you Latewood, relax. All I was doing was confirming that using just 3 part was the best way to go, and using a lot of additives is taking focus off other aspects of the grow. Understand what I am saying? As far as my questions, I didnt read the whole thing in depth, sorry if I missed that part about ommitting grow, I was curious of your response. I personally use grow all the way through because Micro is more expensive then grow so by ommiting grow, Im using a lot more Micro. I get the grow for very cheap. Ive used Advanced with great results so thats what I continue to use, I aint saying GH is crap, just that I found it to be less concentrated.

PS. I only mentioned the PPM of our water so people know you dont need to use RO and waste a ton of water in the process. Obviously for many people, they do not live in an area where this is possible. I am blessed with perfect water that never develops algae and has no deficiencies. Im not argueing your "forumla", Im stating that all you need is 3 part.....

peace

[latewood]

:blueknife:calmag is only for those using ROwater. In case anyone missed. It is a matter of judgment. I quit using LK in flower once foliage is "apeshit" that is why I cut it out of the everytime recipe.:p

racerx. we both misunderstood each other. great ideas you have. The point of the thread was...You don't *need any stronger a nute solution...or, You can learn to grow, and this is all you'll need.:smokin: Got me?

To some this recipe might seem a little light, but I have tried to let the plant be itself as much as possible, and that seems to work out in both a healthy "bounty", and I don't have to worry about toxic shock, and hermies as much, lesser chance of stress.
If you guys can add all that ppm you are doing...goodluck is all I say. I would cut back a bit. I will close this paragraph by saying. I have run an EC of 3.0 and that is around 2200ppm, I've been there.
So Racerx. Challenge away, Just know that I tend to be blunt. no worries. peace:smokin: Oh yeah. One last time...

**Advanced Nutrients copied General Hydroponics recipe for 3-part. That is common knowledge. Quit thinking that if you buy advanced Nutrients 3-part you are gaining anything. Please!:cool: oH yeah. I forgot to list...

Overdrive in the last post...I think. Love it. Have always used it. IN fact I am out, and I am looking to try something different to finish with or a bloom booster to try out...

Any Suggestions. I know all you guys buy those big numbers...right off the bat! What do you use. Here is your chance to tell us; Right here right now! What Bloom enhancer do "you" :wtf: think is the best on the market.

additives and bloom boosters are great! :thumbsup: I just wanted to share you can get great results without buying all the extra stuff. NO frills, Just like General Hydroponics, and Advanced Nutrients** claim!

* I was never implying that with this recipe was the end all recipe. I will say I guarantee that you won't hurt your plants with methodology provided here; If you maintain a consistent ph5.8, that you maintain good growing conditions 70-80 degrees, humidity 38-50%, good air-circulation...etc.:)

I never claimed anyone would grow the biggest baddest-Ass potentist...plant they everrrrrrr grew. Then Again. Maybe:eek::greenthumb::giggity::eat::bonghit::abdu ct:

[xcrispi]

Much love Latewood .
4 buckets + your recipe + 2000w. = 3lbs. Even w/ 3 of the 4 suposedly being a lower yielding strain . 3/4 lb. ea. just like you claim .
Just got my new turkey baster too for the next go round .
Peace man
Crispi

[Racerx]

Latewood, to be honest I never let it get past 1800ppm anymore because I do not see a difference in 1800 and 2000 and why use more nutrients...but the plant took it with no burn and a GREAT yield. It was however very large. You must also remember that 200 of that is my water so the amount of nutrients is not as much as it seems at first glance. Anyways, after this next grow I am working with Blueberry and Grapefruit and I can promise you I will be doing much much lower EC numbers. I have found our White Widow to be incredibly strong and hungry, but I am positive the lower yielding Grape and Blue will not eat nearly as much. That will be nice because right now we spend over $200 in nutrients per complete cycle, just for the one hydro room. And we get an awesome deal on the stuff. Thats almost 2.5 gallons of Micro, 2.5 gallons of bloom, and around 1.5 gallons of grow. If we are using Big Bud (which I like and is the only additive I use besides Hygrozyme) then its another $100 a grow for a gallon. $100 in Hygrozyme per complete cycle as well. Finally we have pH up and pH down (now this is one place I will argue to to the tooth, but AN has a far more concentrated pH then GH. It takes 5 drops to lower our 20 gallon reservoir by over a half point. It takes a tablespoon of GH pH down to do the same. I havent found a difference in holding the pH). pH up and down is another $20. So every complete cycle on one room, we are spending $420-$450 on nutrients. If I can get rid of the Bug Bud and run a lower PPM/EC and get the exact same results...well then I am freaking sold Latewood cause that could save me a couple hundred dollars a cycle which is 4 times a year so thats like nearly $1000 I could a year.

I guess I am simple in that I see the obvious visual correlation between gigantic huge healthy plants and large amounts of nutrients. I am worried about not using enough nutrients and feeling like I should have added more and I wasted time because I didnt. Know that feeling? If only I could get another grow of White Widow and try lower EC levels and compare.

PS. I have never found any of those small expensive AN additives to do jackshit but spend my cash; except Growth Excel. Have you used Growth Excel Latwood? If you have not, then that is the #1 thing you need to use (unless you use something that is of course very similar, it is a seawood extract foliar spray). Spray every morning when the lights come on. Results are fantastic. I dont use it on my hydro because the growth rate is too uncontrollable, but on our soil grows it works absolute wonders.

[latewood]

well 1st shovlboy If you are suing diamond nectar and it contains fulvic acid...etc...OMIT liquid Karma.

racer. I grow huge plants, bro generally I shoot for 4-5 feet tall, but I have a lot of piks, even with this recipe that reached or would've reached all the way to the ceiling...Damn Sativs :D

this recipe allows you to gain control over your grow and the plant foliage still goes crazy.

[latewood]

unknown bagseed clone but delicious. Final product in Avatar. under 400 watt MH for now. Will flower under 600 hortilux. RO water 0ppm (Have RO/DI filter). AC in room, temps are 73 on Scrog screen with great airmovement under and over screen. 900ppm with your 1-1-1 recipe 5 gallon bubble bucket. been topping off with calmag + 3ml per gallon. Water temps 65 degrees (coolworks chiller). PH steady at 5.8 with homemade doser.Nice job...Now imagine that same canopy filled with sticky buds.:D

A Note. RacerX made a suggestion about the higher bloom ratios. I thought about it, and decided to add an extra baster of bloom to some of mine in flower. For those of you that have followed along...that would be 0-1-3
I don't want to add more micro as racerx and his compadre, because that is a lot of nitrogen...I think we have plenty nitrogen! So Let's kick it up a notch with an extra portion of bloom.:thumbsup: !!!Warning!!! DO NOT do this in early flower. You should be at least in week 3-4f; Where you really start to kick in the higher ppm value. If you choose to.

Nothing wrong with staying with the original recipe, and grow nice healthy stuff like BLazeIdo has:jointsmile:

this thread is starting to become fun. Peace:smokin:

p.s. Blaze...before I posted I read something about some type of sucanat sugar??? I don't know. perhaps someone else, but beware. If you must add something. Use something proven that will enhance the grow.

I am hoping that now that we have a few people that have tried this simple grow recipe, and founded it. I am going to try and coax Zandor into giving us some simple tips to beef up our buds. Peace Zandor Hint...hint...

[BlazeIdo]

If this same recipe were to be used in a larger rez (lets say 10-20 gallons). How often would the rez changes have to be performed then? Would the ratio of time to water be equal when increased? hope this makes sense. Peace

[latewood]

Thats kinda like just adding a flower booster in a way isn't it? Should I use caution when adding a booster to the 0-1-3 ratio?Yes it is. I wouldn't go to 0-1-3 if I was using a bloom booster. I would stay with basic formula. you were right. I am upping the Bloom as an alternative to adding a bllom additive.

I am ordering hammerhead pk9-18 I think...

[latewood]

yup. 1 for 5 gallon. 1-2 in 10 gallon...2 in 18 gallon.

as far as how often you change using bigger rez...If you want change your solution less frequently. You can top off with water up to one full replacement of solution. Once you have replaced 100% of solution. Refresh with new batch.

i.e. if in 5 g bucket. once you add 5 gallons. you have to change.

if you have 10 gallon rez...then you can top-off 10 gallons of ph'd water.

I agree that 600 watt lights put out almost the same lumens as 1000 watt lamps, but the price is very close also...So alot of growers...myself included prefer to pay the little bit extra for the extra lumens.

I like the consideration of heat issue that racerx brought up. I use my old magnet ballast to enhance heat temps on the cooler winter nights.

As a matter of fact...You could heat your living space or a cooler room with the hot air you vent from grow space. Peace

[shovlboy]

Latewood, when you say top off with calmag or LK. You mean just to top off with RO water at a PH of 5.8? And only top it when the res gets low? Then when I change the water in my res, top it off with LK..ect.?

[shovlboy]

Latewood, when you say top off with calmag or LK. You mean just to top off with RO water at a PH of 5.8, with CALMAG? And only top it when the res gets low? Then after I change the water in my res, top it off with LK..ect.?

[BlazeIdo]

I'm not latewood, but yes that is what he recommends with this recipe. So mix your initial nutes, then after your girl has drank some water, mix a gallon of water with calmag or LK depending on which week it is, Ph balance and refill rez to initial fill line. I do this until I have refilled with the exact amount of water I started with then I change my Rez). Easy Cheezy.(if its earlier in the grow the plant might not drink as much water so use your judgment) Stop using LK and Calmag after week 5 in flowering. Peace

[latewood]

I'm not latewood, but yes that is what he recommends with this recipe. So mix your initial nutes, then after your girl has drank some water, mix a gallon of water with calmag or LK depending on which week it is, Ph balance and refill rez to initial fill line. I do this until I have refilled with the exact amount of water I started with then I change my Rez). Easy Cheezy.(if its earlier in the grow the plant might not drink as much water so use your judgment) Stop using LK and Calmag after week 5 in flowering. Peacethis is a perfect explanation.:thumbsup: You may still use calmag if you use rowater, and need to replenish the calcium magnesium, But not necessarily. Peace

[latewood]

I changed bloom formula to 1 part G, 1/2 part M, 3parts Bloom...Whooooyou should a seen'em jump.

I have to give racer...I believe some credit for making me look over the formulas more closely. If you notice Grow has way more potassium "K" than Micro, and now that I am mixing my own commercial nutes from powder...I learned a thing or 2. I always knew you didn't want alot of phosphates after initial dose at beginning of flower. Well LOOK at Micro. Mostly Nitrogen and Phosphates. OK you need that, we all know we want Potassium. so look again at your bottles.

You want to cut down nitrogen in flower...right? rethink.

So that is my new deal, and I got girth, crystals quicker than I have experienced before.

Thanks again Zandor. He helped me realize where I was off a bit.

So how many of you are using this formula now? Let's tweak it!!!

P>S> I got some AN hammerhead 0-9-18 Watch out. :smokin:

[Hightimes817]

I changed bloom formula to 1 part G, 1/2 part M, 3parts Bloom...Whooooyou should a seen'em jump.


P>S> I got some AN hammerhead 0-9-18 Watch out. :smokin:

Latewood, thank you for all the experience and insight! I now know exactly what my little girls need.

For me tho, I have had terrible results with liquid karma. From the terrible brown color of the stuff running down the edge of the bottle and staining everything it touches, to creating terrible bacteria and fungus in my bubbler pots.

After using it for only 2-3 days, the bubbler water was awfully rank smelling and had tons of algae and bacteria forming on the sides of the bucket. Im not sure if i just got an old product or anybody else are having these results, but anyway..

What could you recommend for a supplament top-off instead of LK? I was thinking maybe Earth Juice Catalyst? Its alot cheaper and seem like similiar products, but im not sure whats all in it. What would you recommend to get the same growth power but without having to use Liquid Karma?

Also, how do you intend to use the Hammerhead product from Advanced nutrients? Would that work in place of LK?

[latewood]

Well. Something else was wrong. I agree that LK is kinda nasty, but that is from the humic acid and such...

advanced Nutrients recommends B-52, Botanicare has Sea Blast. Just make sure that you have a b-vitamin w/sea kelp, similar to LK. LK is a catalyst. so start your search there.

I would have to look up, but isn't floralicious a catalyst by GH???

Earth Juice is gonna be just as nasty as the next one...believe me these particular additive are nasty...Good luck let me know how it goes.

[latewood]

Hey Latewood, yeah- something else was definately wrong. My little babies were nice and healthy, above 5-6 nodes and climbing, when it all went downhill. Even with constant water changes, i still got nasty bacteria and awful smells..

One thing I didnt consider was the temperature of the water. If i was hypothetically using just a 5 gallon bucket, that is non recircilating with a simple airstone, is cooling the water absolutely critical? I drilled holes at the top of the bucket for the airlines so it would be air tight, so the only thing I can think of is the temps.

How would people that grow in this way be able to cool their temps? I know a simple solution would be dropping some frozen bottle waters in there, but honestly.. whats the deal? I started to use this method about 2 months ago and have nothing to show for it. The plants drooped until their death :(

Im prolly the only first time grower that tried hydro first and is considering going to soil!! :(

p.s. Blueberry x AK-47 .. is uploading attachments the only way to show photos? http://strike9.com/file.ashx?path=/anonymous/6c6dd7aa-940a-43ac-92ee-fec102f6e582.jpg

I didnt grow it unfortunately :)

Without knowing more about your growing conditions, I couldn't tell you. I didn't see this post until today. sorry

You need rez temps 65-70 dgrees. Ice water bottles are OK, but why was rez temps so Hot? I have never used anything or done any more than I showed you here. Peace

[socialistpete]

Took me awhile to read this one!!

Latewood, there was one thing I was confused on. In your first post you stated that you dip a 5 gallon bucket in your 35 gal rez and add nutes. Is the formula given, for each 5 gallons. so if my res was 20 gallons I would add 4 times that amount? Sorry I'm ripped and over analyzing things.:stoned: :stoned:

I'm going to pick up gh nutes and liquid karma tomorrow. My seedlings are ready for there first feeding.:)

[latewood]

Yes that is what it means. Values were for 5 gallons.
So 40ml=160ml. for 20 gallons.

A note about Calmag+ and hardwater GH MicroH.

If you end up with GH 3-part, part =MicroH, the difference between regular GH Micro, is that Hardwater formula has less Calcium-magnesium in the formula. so don't forget you calmag+...Your plants use alot of these 2 elements.

[LOC NAR on probation]

Glad to here it's working well. Unfortunately latewood is no longer here. He is over at another site now. I can't remember the name , trying to get back there myself. Saw him a month ago and it's is still working. Go by his formula, works great. Sorry to have lost him here!!!!

[xcrispi]

Glad to here it's working well. Unfortunately latewood is no longer here. He is over at another site now. I can't remember the name , trying to get back there myself. Saw him a month ago and it's is still working. Go by his formula, works great. Sorry to have lost him here!!!!

Hey LOC NAR on probation ,
I believe Latewoods at Hygronomics.com (http://www.hygronomics.com) I could be mistaken though . This recipe is the shit BTW . I got a 19 oz, plant using it in dwc/drip buckets .
Crispi :jointsmile:

[colour]

LW left?? Know where he went?

Hopefully someone else can answer this, then:
His formula is per 5 gallons. If doing DWC with individual buckets you're not using all 5 gallons...this confused me. I thought he started out saying he does 5 gal. bucket DWC but you can't possibly use all 5..?

[gainesvillegreen]

LW left?? Know where he went?

Hopefully someone else can answer this, then:
His formula is per 5 gallons. If doing DWC with individual buckets you're not using all 5 gallons...this confused me. I thought he started out saying he does 5 gal. bucket DWC but you can't possibly use all 5..?

I think he may have just used the 5 gallons as an example (but I don't know). You're right about not being able to use the whole 5 gallons, 3 is more like it. Just stick with the 8-8-8ml per gallon in veg, and adjust for flower.

[elskeetro]

::EDIT::

I just read back 1 page and got the info i needed. sorry for the redundant post.

::END::

Yeah, i have the same confusion as above.

In the original post he says he has a 35 gallon res, he takes a 5 gallon bucket, dips it into the big res then adds nutes to the 5 gallons...

so 1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 5 gallons = 40ml-40ml-40ml....right?

so does he dump that into his 35 gallon res when he's done mixing?

In veg i have a 13 gallon res with 9 gallons of water...does that mean i should mix:

1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 9 gallons = 72-72-72 ???

I feel as though that may be overkill...

please advise!!!

thanks!
Skeet

[socialistpete]

so 1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 5 gallons = 40ml-40ml-40ml....right?


In veg i have a 13 gallon res with 9 gallons of water...does that mean i should mix:

1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 9 gallons = 72-72-72 ???



Correct my young fiend!

[socialistpete]

This is what I run and you've seen the results. For flower i use 20-40-240 for my 10 gallon res, thats why I told you I use about 2 gallons of flower to each gallon of micro and gro. Also I add the kool bloom at flower and Liquid Karma to the clones feeding.

On a side note I'm just about to bottle that beer.

[stinkyattic]

Latewood may now be found running hygronomics . com, which is a great resource for those of us who aim to produce our own food and live in ecological balance. While canncom is no longer his home, he and Zandor made this grow area what it is today and I've re-stuck this excellent thread because it is so valuable as a starting point for a grower looking to expand his knowledge into the water... It's good reading for all of us.

[elskeetro]

yeah man, my order of GH nutes came in today. i'll be doing a res change as soon as i get out of work. If you have a few free moments you should swing thru and see what's happening.

i have a few fun tales to tell you.

About the beer, let me know when you are gonna bottle that shit up. If you need a hand or want some company i have nothing happening after lights out (7:00 pm).

sweet deal. thanks bud.
"Skeet"

[stinkyattic]

Hey guys would you mind taking the beer talk elsewhere? Not a topic for this site. Thanks.

I'm going to be going through and cleaning up this thread to make it more approachable pretty seen.

[elskeetro]

Sorry bout the beer. I'll get back to the topic at hand.

So i got my GH 3 part Nutes today. Did a full res change on both veg and flower.

Everything seems cool except for my PPMs and i'm still learning what that's all about and how to control it.

on my veg side:

i use 9 gallons of water, so i ph'd my tap water to 5.8 and then added the 1-1-1 (72-72-72ml) to the water like i'm sure i'm supposed to. I checked the PPM and just plain water was roughly 180ppm. then when i added the nutes, it jumped up to 1100ppm. That seems high for veg to me, but i'm following the recipe...thoughts?

On the flower side i use 10 gallons of water. so i'm in week 3 of flower so i used the .25-1-2 (20ml-80ml-160ml) and my PPM is only around 1100...which seems low for flower, but i'm following the recipe...thoughts?

also, i have a full bottle of B'Cuzz PK 13-14. I'd like to use it if possible, otherwise it'll just sit around for eternity.

Does anyone have any advice on how to straighten out my PPM (if they are in fact wacky!) and any advice on adding the PK 13-14 to this mix would be appreciated as well.

thanks and sorry for noobin' on ya'll.

Skeet

[socialistpete]

Theres a lot of shit in this thread but later in it latewood explains that for the flower you should use 2-4-24 for flower, which is what I've been doing try this out and see what your ppms are, but as you know I know nothing about ppm readings. I prob won't be able to stop over until the weekend unless you guys are still up around 1am, I'm sure your shit will be fine.

[elskeetro]

hmmm...i just read through the entire thread and some more board searching looking for the 2-4-24 reference and couldn't find anything. I did however find some talk about 0-1-3 and LW using hammerhead 9-18 as well as talk of other bloom boosters. That leads me to believe i'll be alright adding in a bit of pk 13-14.

Pete, i've seen your results so i'm not disagreeing with your 2-4-24 suggestion, but i think i'll stick close to what i've read with the addition of the pk 13-14 until i'm comfortable with the process, then i'll see if i can push it a bit more.

fun times. thanks all for the info.

Skeet.

[socialistpete]

Actually I think latewood might have told me that in an email I cant remember. Don't forget I also use Kool Bloom in flower.

[elskeetro]

Hmm...i do remember you saying that you used KB. Which do ou use? i did some searching and there are 2 Kool Bloom products...both are from GH, one is 2-45-28 and the other is 0-10-10? I'm thinking the latter is kinda similar to the pk 13/14 (0-13-14) but i'm not sure.

I had some issues with pk13/14 really wacking out my pH. it jump from 5.8 to 6.5 in a matter of seconds and it took me 2 teaspoons of pH down to fix it. rather discouraging.

anyways. We'll probably be harvesting the NLxS this coming week. We snipped a little lower bud to sample ahead of time. It was quite nice regardless of the quickdry and lack of curing. i can't wait to see the final product. if you have time you should check them out before they get the ol' hatchet.


Later,
Skeet

[socialistpete]

2-45-28 is the one and unlike the packaging I use it through the whole flower cycle. I will also bee harvesting this weekend.

[kcabwards]

now i'm totally confused can someone please clarify.

use 1 1 1 in veg
use 1 .5 3 in first half of flower? "or is this the new formula for the last half of flower?"
use 0 1 3 in last half of flower?

and it goes G M B right?

or am i still wrong?

[elskeetro]

now i'm totally confused can someone please clarify.

use 1 1 1 in veg
use 1 .5 3 in first half of flower? "or is this the new formula for the last half of flower?"
use 0 1 3 in last half of flower?

and it goes G M B right?

or am i still wrong?

You're Close...

1-1-1 in veg.

.25 - 1 - 2 - first half of flower

1 - .5 - 3 - second half of flower.

the idea is to give higher P and K and less N. especially towards the end...many suggest cutting N out completely 7-10 days before you start your flush. Like latewood said, use this as a guideline and adjust as you see fit.

hope that helped,
Skeet

[FourTwenty4Life]

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: http://hygronomics.com/forum1 post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.

I dont think you realize how many people have no clue what you're talking about...Noobs to growing need a simpler step by step instruction. I found Jorge Cervantes Growers bible to be a great first read on overall growing. Honestly though, most noobs will not understand this...i barely do & ive grown be4. lol

[cannakeeper]

Whats soo hard to understand? The values listed are in ml/gal and 5 gal as a reference. example. .25-1-2= 1/4 of a part-1 part-2 parts. 8ml is one part so.. 2ml-8ml-16ml per gallon 10-40-80 is number of ml of each of the 3 part nutes per 5 gallon reference. Just work with the ml per gallon=8ml. The first set of numbers seen throughout this thread...0-1-2 is refering to no ml of grow=0 parts, 8ml of micro=1part, 16ml of bloom= 2 parts..forget the references like 40-40-40 or 10-40-80...etc, those are the total ml per 5 gal of each of the 3 nutes, Not the NPK values like on a fertilizer bag. hope that helps

[FourTwenty4Life]

I guess you make sense but 2 of my friends read it & they didnt understand either. I haven't grown in a while because I had failed attempts so I'm looking to do things right very shortly...small grow with 4 plants, 1 hps 400w light, 2 fans, and some CO2 tablets plus all soil/nutes that VapedG13 recommends. Problem is that it's still cold out and heat isn't always constantly on 24/7 but soon...ill be posting grow log w/ pics.

[AllforMe]

I dont think you realize how many people have no clue what you're talking about...Noobs to growing need a simpler step by step instruction. I found Jorge Cervantes Growers bible to be a great first read on overall growing. Honestly though, most noobs will not understand this...i barely do & ive grown be4. lol
Nice how you opened up a 2+ year old post to bash a guy who hasn't been here in 2 years. Plus anyone who has ever mixed 1 batch of general hydroponics nutes could easily understand this if they read every post on the first page where he answers questions. There is a reason this is a sticky. ;):D

I myself have been growing with 3-2-1 then 2-4 with 1=to only 2.5ml (the general hydroponics feed chart cut in half) I was told a long time ago that you don't want to use full strength nutes in dwc because of the constant feeding. I have been lazy and let the ppms get up to 2100 due to water drinking and lack off topoffs, and they never died. My water is about 180ppm, and my total finished ppm in flower is usually around 1000. I think I am going to try this and see how she grows!

[socialistpete]

Allforme you wont be disappointed after trying this, and thanks for saying what I wanted too:thumbsup:

[immortal420]

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: hygro greenhouse (http://hygronomics.com/forum1) post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.


We're you growing in rockwool cubes?

[xcrispi]

No ,
Latewood grew in hydroton .
Just rockwool stays too wet in most situations .
Most folks use hydroton , or hygromite rocks
Crispi :jointsmile:

[squeakerpie]

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: Hygronomics.com (http://hygronomics.com/forum1) post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.







WHAT ARE THE P P M ' S!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[elskeetro]

WHAT ARE THE P P M ' S!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

IT VARIES DEPENDING ON WATER QUALITY AND METHOD.

TRY IT YOURSELF AND LEARN!!!

(and stop using caps...)

[Horsemanrocks]

Just before Latewood left he changed his bloom formula to one he liked better. Does anybody know if the change was to replace both halves of the bloom protocol (1st 4 weeks, and 2nd four weeks). Or might he have been referring to only 1 of the two halves.

Thanks,
Horsemanrocks

[michaelpeg]

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: http://hygronomics.com/forum1 post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.


can someone please direct me to the lucas method? I can't make heads or tails out of this info.

[Horsemanrocks]

Michaelâ?¦â?¦Itâ??s a long oneâ?¦.like 26 pages or something, but there is a lot of info here.
Cannabis-World - Ask Lucas (http://www.cannabis-world.org/cw/printthread.php?t=892&pp=40)
It will definitely answer your ppm questions from your other thread. Lucas gives a much clearer explanation than Latewoodâ?¦â?¦that doesnâ??t mean that I think his method is better, it might even be the key to understanding Latewood better.
I personally had to rewrite Latewood over â??in my own languageâ?� to create a worksheet that I could work from. If I can find a way to post it here for you I will.
If anybody has a list of usable formats for posting here (pics) that would help. I tried to post something in a JPG2 format here recently, and it didnâ??t go through.

For the moment I photographed my worksheetsâ?¦..maybe itâ??ll come out clear enough to be helpful.

[attachment=o230264]
[attachment=o230265]
[attachment=o230266]

As alwaysâ?¦..good luck
HMR

[Horsemanrocks]

Ok Michaelâ?¦..I managed to turn a Word file into a JPG.

My system is DWCâ?¦..but with 6 buckets, a controller, and a reservoir feeding the controller through a float valve, so my volume is 30 gallons. Youâ??ll have to convert again to your needs (if I rememberâ?¦a single bucket).
Iâ??ve tried to add notes from the thread to help clarify the info, as it seemed quite scattered to me too (and it appears to many other readers also).

[attachment=o230310]
[attachment=o230311]
[attachment=o230312]

I donâ??t know how far you want to take this studyâ?¦.I personally found the Lucas link to be very informative, and will answer a plethora of questions not covered here.

Please let me know if this helps at all. And to those familiar with the Latewood regimenâ?¦..if you find errors in my thinking/translation, I welcome your corrections.

As alwaysâ?¦..good luck
HMR

[michaelpeg]

thank you very much for the notes, everything makes pretty good sense to me. Would I get pretty good results using your feeding schedule with just the 3 part nutes without all the fancy stuff? (I cant afford it right now) also do you need to use the cal mag if you are using tap water? also thanks for the link.

[Horsemanrocks]

Would I get pretty good results using your feeding schedule with just the 3 part nutes without all the fancy stuff?

Michael, In shortâ?¦.you can expect good results without the â??extrasâ?�.

In longâ?¦..thereâ??s very little difference between the two. Quite late in the Lucas threadâ?¦..he states (Iâ??m paraphrasing) that the differences between the sources of nitrogen between Grow and Micro might well be a benefit.

Grow
Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos (http://www.emcarthur.com/shrpduck/overgrow.faq/faq_0700/707.htm)

Micro
Grow Marijuana FAQ, Cannabis cultivation - marijuana growing tips & photos (http://www.emcarthur.com/shrpduck/overgrow.faq/faq_0700/708.htm)

Now Iâ??m no chemist, botanist, nor horticularist. But I am willing to take the advice of many successful growers of both regimens. (Both quite successful.)

also do you need to use the cal mag if you are using tap water? also thanks for the link.

A judgement callâ?¦..my tap ppm (@.7) is about 98 and I have seen calcium deficiencies in my momâ??s using ff grow big. Both of these guys differ some on Calmag+ (Lucas believes that GH flora 3 part supplies enough) Iâ??ll probably use a very light dose.

My takeâ?¦.Lucas is a fundamentalist, Latewood is more willing to take a chance. And of courseâ?¦.simpler is easier to understand.

Expect the best,
HMR

[michaelpeg]

thanks for the help, i think i have the info i need to do this now.

[tinytoon]

what is the best way to find out what kind of shape your tap water is in?? I get the yearly water report from the area I live in but it doesnt make a bit of sence to me whatsoever.

[Horsemanrocks]

what is the best way to find out what kind of shape your tap water is in?? I get the yearly water report from the area I live in but it doesnt make a bit of sence to me whatsoever.


I hear that!......and on top of that if you pay for an expensive water analysis, what information do you compare that to.

I went to the water district requesting more information under the guise of wanting more information to make â??home brewâ?�. They couldnâ??t provide any more info than that yearly report. But if they hadâ?¦Iâ??d be in the same boat as youâ?¦.what to do with it. They did say that they used chlorine (not chloramines) thatâ??s helpful as far as determining the duration of the effect. My water report doesnâ??t even mention Calcium or Magnesium.

Unless you school yourself not only in water analysisâ?¦.but what your own grow requirements are, I guess all you can do is let the grow tell you.

I did copy this quote from Weedhoundâ?¦..

Interestingly.....according to my hydro man.....its VERY hard to OD on CalMag. If your leaves are going all dark and curly that just plain sounds like overnute to me. I sat down the other day and had a fair discussion on the use of CalMag with my hydro guy.....i'll be using it MORE these days instead of less. Just a thought I'm tossing in.....

Now Lucas thinks that GH Flora 3-part supplies all the cal/mag that youâ??re gonna need. (and he doesnâ??t do change-outs) In fairness though he does continue to add Micro and Bloom in top-offs.
But Latewood (who refreshes more often) adds Calmag+ to replace the Calcium â??used up in the 3-partâ?�.
Seems conflicting to me.

To sum it upâ?¦..Hell if I know! I suppose that your grow will speak to youâ?¦.Jus gotta listen.

With luck some water specialist type will school us both.
HMR

[michaelpeg]

hey horseman what exactly do you mean when you say ppm at .7?

[Horsemanrocks]

Your ppm meter doesnâ??t know squat about ppm. It only makes an approximation at ppm by measuring EC (electrical conductivity).
It then takes itâ??s EC figure and converts that to ppm with a factor of .5 or .7 to estimate ppm.
Note: EC is exactly the same on all meters. (itâ??s a baseline to work from)

So if you want to communicate ppm then you have to consider the conversion factor.
Example:
EC= 2100
2100 X .7 = 1470
2100 X .5 + 1050 Two very different conclusions.
So if anybody posts ppm without including their conversion factor, well then you have nothing to work with (to compare).

Letâ??s say that your meter converts at .7 and another posts ppm at a .5 conversion factor. Then you have to take (their ppm) X (the recriprocal of .5 (2.0)) to learn the EC of their solution.
Example:
Ppm 1050 (@.5) X 2 = 2100
2100 x .7 = 1470
So their 1050 ppm @.5 equals 1470 ppm @ .7 to you
If the situation was reversedâ?¦.the reciprocal of .7 is 1.4285

To find the conversion factor of your meter (if you have an EC function) Simply measure any solution for ECâ?¦then measure for ppm to see which conversion factor it uses. If not check the instructions.

My meter allows either conversion factor (I choose) I chose .7 because it seems to be a little more commonly used.

Let me know if this helps
HMR

[michaelpeg]

thanks for the help sorry a little late. Hey horseman do you start with feeding 1-1-1 when they are seedlings or do you hold off on feeding the first week or so?

[Horsemanrocks]

Michaelâ?¦.If I were qualified to help I would.
Iâ??m just into my first growâ?¦.and at ¼ strength of the 1-1-1 the new growth twists. So Iâ??m feeding by eye (with no experience).

Weezard taught me to keep my mouth shut when I didnâ??t KNOW from personal experience. So I gottaâ?? go with that.

Good luck
HMR

[michaelpeg]

weezard is a smart guy. you still helped me, I now know how sensitive the young plants are in dwc, thanks for the help. I guess i will play by eye as well.

[snoopytime]

Hey guys, trying this out . . one question about something I cant understand, the CalMag+ topoffs . . say I got a 20 gallon res and 3 days after a new batch of nutes, I am down 2 gallons of water. Do I ph the 2 gallons of RO water to 5.8, then add 3ml x 20 gallons reservoir = 60ml CalMag+ . . or is it 3ml x 2 gallons topoff?

In other words, with the CalMag+ topoffs do you add the 3 per mil for the total res size or just per gallon of RO water you are topping off with?

Thanks!

[bitemybud]

You just mix the top-off. During top-offs, you only add concentrates to the amount of water you are mixing.

Yes. you ph the water, then add your cal-mag. then check your ph again and adjust if necessary.

Cal-mag is the foundation of growing plants successfully.

In Comnercial Greenhouses; To make a nutrients solution, the 1st 2 ingredients are Calcium Nitrate, and Magnesium Sulphate.

Boosting the Calcinit allows for bigger fruit on the vines. So; We can conclude that adding cal-mag to tap water cannot hurt. Calmag says you can use 3-8ml per gallon. So if you have tap water that contains some calcium and magnesium then you could use the 3ml per gallon option.

Calmag and Liquid karma are not fancy things, as mentioned above. Together they contain all the good beneficial additives for the healthiest plants, in the least expensive way possible. If you cannot afford to buy what you need to grow using a hydroponics method, Then you will not succeed, save blind luck! Wait until you can buy the necessary tools, to do so.

Confusing this with Lucas Method is wrong, because they are 2 different types of growing.

However; Regardless of method: Aero, DWC, NFT, or Drip. You should use full strength formulas. Someone above mentioned twisted leaves. That is because they were misguided by someone telling them to use 1/4 strength nutes. Always mix you nutes full strength according to the bottles directions.

Neither Latewood or Zandor condone mixing nutrients at less than full strength for vegetative or flowering plants. There have been many posts on this topic through the years. You can find them at thegrowreport.

Hope this helps. I thought the whole thing was getting a bit jumbled. Good Luck, and BitemyBud!

[Zeffer]

So cut'm a big slice of whatever, people, come onna !

[Zeffer]

Latewood, thank you dude ! This bud fur youz !