Keeping clean specimen for extended amount of time?

[kknight]

I found this post and it was exactly what I was looking for so I figured I would copy and paste it. He never got a reply so I was looking to see if I could get some answers.

FYI: since I have to take supervised tests from time to time and many of my friends drink and toke, it's often hard to find someone to give me a clean specimen. I can catch some of them at the right time and I would like to get a friend to just give me a large amount to keep on freeze so that each time I need it, I won't have to go through the trouble of tracking one down.


Quote:
if i have a friend urinate for me the evening before the test, do i have to freeze it right away or something?

also, i get randomly drug tested at school so until i'm clean i plan on using the substitution method in case i get tested. the only thing i have to worry about is whether or not the age of the urine can be detected, and the exact temperature i need to keep it at.

any help would be appreciated, thanks a ton

[NightProwler]

dont take my word for it but i think that you cant use piss older than a day. and it has to be the right temp im pretty sure. wait for someone elses imput though

[kknight]

dont take my word for it but i think that you cant use piss older than a day. and it has to be the right temp im pretty sure. wait for someone elses imput though


Well I'm pretty sure that it starts growing germs after 8 hours but that's where the freezing part comes in at.

[FakeBoobsRule]

Room temperature for 8-16 hours, in the fridge for a couple of weeks, in the freezer for a year.

[kknight]

Preciate it everyone.

[ny2casports89]

i think it depends on the tests..... my drug tests get sent into a company which means it has to be at least a couple days b4 they get tested.... i'm sure it depends on the test and what it tests for... the only thing that i could see being a concern is the creatnine levels, if the test doenst test for this i have no idea how it could determine if the piss was old, or even if the piss isnt just apple juice, but most hometests dont test for creatinine. I'm not even sure if the creatinine levels decrease over time, but i think that i've read that they do. But anyway if someone has anything to ad to this i'd be interested to know to, cause i'm in a similar situation where this info would come in handy.

[FakeBoobsRule]

i think it depends on the tests..... my drug tests get sent into a company which means it has to be at least a couple days b4 they get tested.... i'm sure it depends on the test and what it tests for... the only thing that i could see being a concern is the creatnine levels, if the test doenst test for this i have no idea how it could determine if the piss was old, or even if the piss isnt just apple juice, but most hometests dont test for creatinine. I'm not even sure if the creatinine levels decrease over time, but i think that i've read that they do. But anyway if someone has anything to ad to this i'd be interested to know to, cause i'm in a similar situation where this info would come in handy.

Just about everything you said is wrong. Decomp of urine has nothing to do with decreased levels of creatinine. After about 8 hours the urine begins to breakdown and form ammonia which will not only change the pH of the urine but is easily detectable. Also, when urine leaves the body it is sterile. In a worst case scenario, the urine would begin to grow bacteria and that would be a problem. Also, another chemical is formed from the breakdown of urine after several hours. I believe it is an aldehyde but this I am not sure of.

Yes lots of testing centers may ship the urine at room temp of leave it out for several hours at room temp. You don't want to use urine that has been stored at room temp for several hours and then compound this with the time the test center will let the urine sit at room temp or ship at room temp.

[FakeBoobsRule]

or even if the piss isnt just apple juice
I tell you what, the next time you have a lab drug test, substitute with apple juice and tell us how long it took for them to fail your test.:D :dance:

[ny2casports89]

My whole point was that from the time i piss until the time my piss gets tested is at the very least a few days....so if hes getting drug tested on the spot, i would assume his piss could be a few days old. The parts about the creatnine break down i mentioned were all on speculation, so i'm sure what your saying about that is true. However i'd still assume that the overall idea of my post is true otherwise everyone of my drug tests would have failed or showed some kind of error.

And the apple juice thing... i dunno what you are you trying to say, I never suggested he should use apple juice, I was just using it as an exaggerated example of why they test for creatnine.

[ny2casports89]

Also fakeboobs.... do you know if saving urine does affect creatnine at all? or is it only the specific gravity and ph levels I should be concerned with, because the company that drug tests me does screen for creatnine but it doesnt say anything on their site about testing for ph and specific gravity

[FakeBoobsRule]

My whole point was that from the time i piss until the time my piss gets tested is at the very least a few days....so if hes getting drug tested on the spot, i would assume his piss could be a few days old.

Was your drug test an instant test or a lab test? If it was a lab test were you there watching it from the time you pissed in the specimen cup till the time it was tested? See the thing is you are making assumptions and there are a lot of people who make assumptions in the drug testing forum that are incorrect. It would be more helpful to others if you posted fatual information and not assumptions. Some people's probations and jobs depend on this info. BTW, you are not the only one who posts assumptions or weird theories or incorrect facts.


The parts about the creatnine break down i mentioned were all on speculation, so i'm sure what your saying about that is true. However i'd still assume that the overall idea of my post is true
Again, speculation is not as helpful as facts. Since everything you said about creatinine clearance (except the part about many home tests do not test for this) was wrong how do you figure your post was correct? Almost all lab test test for pH and if you use old urine this is going to be one of the first things to possibly fail. Some very expensive lab tests will look for other things that will show the urine is old. Just because you passed your test doesn't mean every one else will pass their test following your methods. There are so many things that can be tested for depending on how much money someone wants to spend. You also said his piss could be a few days old. Guess what, if I gave old piss the company that tests me would know because they test for many, many things so if I followed your post that you say is correct I would fail. Facts please, not speculation.


And the apple juice thing... i dunno what you are you trying to say, I never suggested he should use apple juice, I was just using it as an exaggerated example of why they test for creatnine.

Using things like apple juice will fail for more than just the lack of creatinine. Horrible example and explanation of the example.

Every lab test tests for specific gravity and pH so they probably don't list it because they have been doing it since the beginning of drug testing. Creatinine clearance is an "option" that can be added to the testing menu so that is why they are probably listing it, to instill some fear against dilution. The advice I gave on how to store urine holds true for tests using creatinine clearance or just about anything else that is tested for.

[Burnt Toast]

When they check the creatinine level, they will also check the pH and SG levels as well.
The creatinine levels and SG levels are checked together in order to arrive at a "diluted" result.

Under US Federal regulations, a "diluted" result is determined when the creatinine level is between 2 - 20 mg/dl and the SG reading is between 1.0010 - 1.0030 on a single aliquot.

[ny2casports89]

I only provided the facts about the way i get tested then stated my own assumptions about it and thought i made it clear they were my own assumptions.

But i still feel my assumption is pretty valid, considering my situation. My urine sample is collected at my house, it is then put in a bottle sealed and sent to a lab where it is drug tested. The sample could take a couple days to get to the lab depending on when it is shipped, so the drug testing company would have to account for this.

My whole point is, and these are facts, the time between when my sample is collected and the time any drug testing method is used on it, is at least a couple days.

[FakeBoobsRule]

My whole point was that from the time i piss until the time my piss gets tested is at the very least a few days....so if hes getting drug tested on the spot, i would assume his piss could be a few days old. The parts about the creatnine break down i mentioned were all on speculation, so i'm sure what your saying about that is true. However i'd still assume that the overall idea of my post is true otherwise everyone of my drug tests would have failed or showed some kind of error.And the apple juice thing... i dunno what you are you trying to say, I never suggested he should use apple juice, I was just using it as an exaggerated example of why they test for creatnine.





I only provided the facts about the way i get tested then stated my own assumptions about it and thought i made it clear they were my own assumptions.

But i still feel my assumption is pretty valid, considering my situation. My urine sample is collected at my house, it is then put in a bottle sealed and sent to a lab where it is drug tested. The sample could take a couple days to get to the lab depending on when it is shipped, so the drug testing company would have to account for this.

My whole point is, and these are facts, the time between when my sample is collected and the time any drug testing method is used on it, is at least a couple days.

Looking back at the last part you are not stating facts. You are trying to make your own experiences with your drug test and since it worked for you, you think that makes them facts. I believe you are trying to share your experience with your drugs tests but just because it works for your drug testing doesn't make it a fact. A fact has to be proven to hold true all the time and every situation. You failed to mention until your last post that your drug tests are collected at your house. Is this because your parents are testing you and use a lab to conduct the test? If this is the case this is a very unusual situation. Do you know what a chain of custody form is? Most people who have drug tests go into a collection facility where the sample is collected and it is properly sealed by the collect and donor to ensure chain of custody. Most collection sites do not have the equipment on site. Rather the samples are sent to a central lab either in that city if it is a large city or it is sent to a facility that handles a region. There is usually a pick up late in the afternoon before the collection center closes but the may still take donations that will be sent out the next day. You do not know the transport time of other people's drug tests. You don't even know if at some point your sample is refrigerated until it reaches the end point or if other people's sample may receive the same treatment. Drug tests can be as basic as a 5 panel test with no validity testing other than specific gravity and pH. Drug tests can go up to 10 panels and even more. They can test for muscle relaxers, non narcotic pain medicine, synthetic opiates, athletic performance enhancing drugs, even more drugs than what I just listed and much more thorough validity testing including the creatinine clearance and adulterant and the presence of urea or ammonia to test the freshness of the sample. Just because your method of using old urine works for your test doesn't make it a fact that it will work for others. Again, your situation is very different as it is collected in your house! Urine begins to break down after about 8 hours and is detectable by a lab around the 18 hour mark. Maybe the lab takes into account that your sample is a little older than most since it is collected at your house.

Think about this example. Someone tested in a lab gets a sample from a donor around Tuesday or Wednesday for use on Friday. They go to the collection center after the pickup for Friday but while the center is still open. Maybe they pickup on Saturday, maybe they pick it up on Monday. Because the center assumes the sample is fresh they don't refrigerate it because it can take a little bit of decomp time without it affecting the sample but not this particular sample because it was old to begin with. By the time that sample gets to the lab the next week the sample already has about a week of decomp on it because the person used old urine. The lab might be expecting it to have a little decomp on it but not a week. So when they get the sample and it has grown bacteria in it or the ammonia levels have rised significantly, the lab figures it out and fails the sample. The solution, don't take the chance that this may happen. Don't add decomp time to the decomp time the lab is going add on to the sample through their storage and handling.

I truly understand what you are trying to do but it really is coming out wrong as you are making your sole experience a fact. It is much better to play it safe and avoid the possibility that the sample fails because it is old instead of hoping that the lab doesn't let it sit around too long. How many people here would hate to apply for a new job and go through the somewhat daunting task of keeping the sub at the right temp and sneaking it in only to fail because they didn't store the sample properly before use?

You should have made it clear your drug test is collected at your home and then sent out in the first post instead of saying well if it works for me it will work for you. Not many people give their sample at home, not many at all. If they do get tested by their parents it is usually instant dipstick style testing or they go to the collection center. I would be willing to bet that no one who applies for a job gets their test taken at home. Also, you are not with your sample the whole time so you don't know if it is receiving refrigeration or not. On an employment test the time the sample is collected is recored. But if you are using an old sample you really are not providing the sample at this recored time. It is already aging and it has aged much more than the lab enticipates.