The Butane Taste Lie

[Rock_Sci]

The Butane Taste Lie



Butane is this molecule C4H10 four carbons, ten hydrogens. Let's take a look at the flame produced by burning this molecule.

First the hottest part of the flame is the blue at the base (temperature is proportional to the frequency of light). Blue light has a higher frequency (shorter wavelength) than red light.

The blue is caused by the burning (oxidizing) of the hydrogen. These guys love to get together and make water (H2O), thatâ??s why we have so much water on this planet. They do this quickly so the heat they produce causes a high temperature. If you know about entropy (energy, time and equilibrium) this makes sense.

So, just above the blue the hydrogen is gone. Since butane is C4H10, it is impossible for any butane to be here. So, the butane taste is also impossible.

Carbon molecules are the only remaining component of the butane. Now these guys arenâ??t as anxious to go hang out with some oxygen. In the presence of some heat they are good to go.

Think about it, you never really see any hydrogen hanging around. It has usually hooked up with some other elements, well and it tends to float off. But, carbon, take a look at a pencil, some graphite, the carbon fiber everything, diamonds â?¦

We actually get to burn (oxidize) carbon twice. The first time we get carbon monoxide, the second time carbon dioxide. Burning carbon produces much more energy, but since it is not as anxious to go hang out with oxygen, the reaction time is slower and the temperature doesnâ??t get as high.

So you say, well I taste something. Yes you are, my friend, but it is NOT butane, agreed. You taste incompletely burned carbon.

A conventional lighter flame sends only butane in to the flame. So the only opportunity for butane to meet up with some oxygen is at the flame surface (outer edges). The blue at the base is really just a relatively thin skin of color and in the center is butane that hasnâ??t gotten a chance to meet some oxygen yet.

So, lets changes the rules of engagement! Letâ??s use a torch lighter. Now this uses what is called an injector. Simply, this some ports (orifices) that use some of Mr. Bernoulliâ??s stuff to add air, which is approximately 20-21% oxygen, to the butane before it meets the flame.

What this does for you is nice. The butane doesnâ??t have to wait until it gets to the flame edge to meet oxygen. Oxygen is hanging out right next to the butane. They just need to chemically say hello.

Then, Bam, exothermic reaction! Butane is the limiting reactant. Which means all of the hydrogens to hook up with an oxygen and all of the carbons get to have a 3 way. Lucky guys! And, some oxygens are still hanging around saying â??whereâ??s mine?â?�.

Now, since everyone got to party all at once, itâ??s starts getting hot in here, ~ 2100 degrees F. Typical lighter flame ~ 1800 degrees F.

More importantly, all the butane becomes carbon dioxide, water and heat. Carbon dioxide is a tasteless, odorless gas. You are breathing some right now. And pure water vapor is tasteless and odorless. We call it humidity.

So properly combusted butane provides an extremely portable, pure, odorless, and tasteless heat source.


Knowledge is â?¦ well knowledge.

[orangeman]

...Wow, interesting read indeed. But the question still remains..is it unhealthy to inhale lighter fumes?

[Pshamous]

umm i not sure if that was a complete waste of time or if ill need that information in the future but im leaning to waste of time.

[Rock_Sci]

If you're burning your stuff, don't worry about it. The smoke you are inhaling with your THC is much worse than the unburned carbon from a lighter.

But, for vaporizing, if you have a butane power source, everybody is crying about butane taste.

I am trying to get them to use a couple of neurons.

A lighter flame can give off unburned carbon, but not butane, it never makes it past the blue part.

A torch lighter will give off pure, tasteless, odorless heat.

FREE YOURSELF FROM THE PLUG!

[pixel]

so are you saying a butane lighter as in a zippo, or does a normal BIC apply to butane lighters too? if so, thats very fascinating because i always thought i was tasting gasoline when i tried to hit a dead bowl and it doesnt burn.

nice work rock_sci you'd make a good chem teacher!

[orangeman]

...i always thought i was tasting gasoline when i tried to hit a dead bowl and it doesnt burn.

Oh yeah lol. I hate that taste.....ugh.

[Rock_Sci]

Zippo and other wick type lighters. Basically the ones you put liquid lighter fluid in are actually buring Naphtha. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha

That is like gasoline. I would only use that lighter for something that will burn easily and not require a sustained flame.:rasta:

[MastaChronic]

good read dog, im glad someone else understands science

[Perp]

This would also apply to those who make the BHO.

[KiEfBoyjBm]

FREE YOURSELF FROM THE PLUG!

that guy is trying to sell those vapes again, I'm not too keen on them. The Pocket Vape (http://www.rockscillc.com/), it seems like a good idea, though I don't plan to get one. I think a digital vaporizer could blow his out of the water. I'm not sure what they cost yet, maybe they won't be extremley overpriced....then I might consider trying one.

[Rock_Sci]

that guy is trying to sell those vapes again.

Actually I challenge you to find one advertisement, a price, or even one place you could buy one !!!

If you can't do that!
Then, Your Foot is Kinda Hanging out ...

[KiEfBoyjBm]

I'm not trying to be hostile, I was just identifying you...just in case anyone else was interested.

Actually I was curious about what these vapes might cost...have you decided on pricing yet? I own a voodoo vaporizer, the whole set ran about $250 a year ago, that is about half of what a volcano will cost you. I like my vape, I just have never been completely convinced of its effectiveness, that is why I am a bit skeptical of your product.

[NightProwler]

lol i definitly taste the butane when i hold the lighter on a bowl too long. i dont care what science says, i TASTE it

[Rock_Sci]

I'm not trying to be hostile, I was just identifying you

Sorry. My previous threads got yanked off this forum cause they claimed I was spaming my vaporizer.

I didn't know who complained or how it happened.
I wanted to make it clear they are not for sale.

I wanted show the technology and performance.
I haven't decided on pricing or market.
If you understand butane combustion and check out my performance test and demo, why would you buy a Volcano?

You like electrical outlets? Or something that looks like everyone elses, or maybe plastic bags.
Or, you like having to leave it at home and can't carry in your pocket?

[KiEfBoyjBm]

There have been a lot of people who had done a bit of advertising and turned out to be scammers. Everyone is now a little suspicious of anyone who might be trying to spam. That's probabally why your threads were closed.

Being tethered to an electrical outlet isn't great, but I have a power inverter in my truck so I can go mobile from time to time. I don't think I would bring my vaporizer anywhere else due to the fact that it costs a ton and from my experiences it takes more time than I am willing to devote to it.

I can see how you can claim yours will be better, with virtually no heat up time. But I am a person who is weary of the multitude of products being marketed towards tokers. I see more and more gadgets every time I go to a head shop. Things like rolling trays which are nothing more than a piece of plastic you rest on your lap. There are tons of other stupid products out there which do nothing to enhance toking.

I invested in my voodoo vaporizer thinking it was more than a gimmick but that's all it turned out to be, I do enjoy using it but it is not very practical, and thus ends up being more trouble than it is worth. My skepticism of your product comes from the fear of ineffectiveness, maybe for the lack of ability to take a "shotgun" type of hit which can be taken with a vape bag or a pipe with a carb or a bong with a slider, those are all things I am accustomed to. If this is anything less, I might see it as a gimmick.

I am also fearful that the first couple times I would end up touching a really hot piece or ceramic. (is that what they are made from) As simple as it is to load my vaporizer I still see it as a chore. You must grind it, then load it into the screen "disk". Turn on the vape and slide in "disc". For my bong I just rip a few pieces of bud and throw it in the bowl. That is the effort that I am willing to put into smoking and my voodoo vaporizer falls short of that, my first impression of your product led me to believe the same thing of your product.

[five0addict]

does unburned butane have a taste? i think thats most what gets tasted, and dont forget the about the impurities in the gas.

[Synthesizer Man]

I think it really depends on the lighter. I had a crappy disposable thing that I picked off the pavement, and every time I lit it the smell was intense.

Unburned butane does have a taste, it is hard to explain it, but I have directly inhaled it straight from the refill can and it had no effect at all.

[LIP]

My Zippo uses Refined petrol.

[Coelho]

The propane/butane sometimes have some strong smelling substancies added to it for safety, for make easy to know when there is some leakage, specially when its used as combustible in ovens... dont know if they add them to zippos too...
By the way, Synthetyzer man, inhaling butane can have *very* strong effects... i recommend it only for the brave of heart...

[darkside]

pure butane has no smell but the butane in lighters (and other flammable gasses like methane and propane) have additives that make them smell a little like rotten eggs or farts( ive noticed it more with cheap lighters as well). these additives are added so you can smell gas leaking before you explode. this is most likely the smell/taste associated with butane lighters.

[slipknotpsycho]

oh come the hell on, it's just alot easier to say butane taste then explain all that....

[RedRainDrop]

either way..... inhaling butane will cause cancer.... (no joke, even look at the back of any butane canister)

[Th3 Chr0nic]

i dont think its that important...cause either way im still gonna smoke

[Genuine17]

umm i not sure if that was a complete waste of time or if ill need that information in the future but im leaning to waste of time.

straight up..

[Rock_Sci]

It took a little while, but I put together all the answers.



Unburned butane does have a taste, it is hard to explain it, but I have directly inhaled it straight from the refill can and it had no effect at all.

What are you calling unburned butane?

The only time you have unburned butane is when there is no flame.
The flame can only exist if the butane burns.

What if all the butane doesnâ??t burn? Wonâ??t happen!
Hereâ??s why. Butaneâ??s molecular formula is C4H10.
The first to burn is the hydrogen, the blue flame. If you harvested the flame here you could say unburned butane.
But, you would not have enough energy to do Jack. Most energy comes from the carbon.

At this point, without hydrogen, Butane (C4H10) can NOT exist.
You can read about flames http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhotflame.html ; I try to keep from tasting my toes.

All that is left is carbon and here are carbonâ??s options:
â?¢ Carbon can burn once, carbon monoxide.
â?¢ Burn a second time, carbon dioxide, or
â?¢ Not burn at all, called carbon black.
So, how do these taste?
Carbon dioxide is tasteless and odorless (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/carbondio).
So is carbon monoxide (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/carbonmo).
Your hemoglobin likes carbon monoxide ~ 210 times more than oxygen.
With your hemoglobin preoccupied, you basically internally suffocate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning

You get plenty of this great stuff every time you burn. This is a fairly unbiased, maybe even pharmaceutical friendly, source of information.
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info3.shtml

Rolled cigarettes Marijuana Tobacco
Cigarette Weight (mg) 1115 1110
Carbon Monoxide (mg) 17.6 20.2

Probably the first time tobacco looks worse, that good old objective Media and Government always protecting us from the truth.

Back to butane, I ran my lighter for 20 seconds, weighing it before and after. It was a whopping 20 mg. If it were all carbon monoxide, I am better off than smoking a tobacco cigarette.

So, whatâ??s left? The carbon black.
This looks like the irritation culprit. This is the only statement I could find about carbon black and taste â??If while wearing a filter, cartridge or canister respirator, you
can smell, taste, or otherwise detect Carbon Black, or in the
case of a full facepiece respirator you experience eye
irritation, leave the area immediately.â?�.
It is located here, www.state.nj.us/health/eoh/rtkweb/0342.pdf , kind of a run for your life away from carbon black warning. But, the taste is not described. I would describe it more like an irritation in the back of my throat. My tongue is pretty much down and out of the way, not positioned well for tasting.


oh come the hell on, it's just alot easier to say butane taste then explain all that....
So you are saying you would rather lie about something, because youâ??re lazy?


does unburned butane have a taste? i think thats most what gets tasted, and dont forget the about the impurities in the gas.
Who is putting impurities in the gas?
This MSDS sheet states 97% butane, 1% pentane, and 2% isobutane. http://www.elpaso.com/msds/A0012C-IG Normal Butane.pdf
These are all alkanes which will happily burn into water and carbon dioxide with enough oxygen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkane



either way..... inhaling butane will cause cancer.... (no joke, even look at the back of any butane canister)

I could not find a study anywhere to support this. Could you give me a link so I read up on this?
My refill can says nothing about causing cancer. If this were true, every lighter would need the warning. Else, the manufactures would be exposed to endless lawsuits. I am not seeing that happening.

Remember clean butane is a plus for me. So, I invite your cross examination. Just make sure you put in links as I have, so I can check up on you.

[Th3 Chr0nic]

what are uexpecting here...for everyone to start a "down with butane" rally or march? SOMETHING tastes bad weather its butane or the carbon or whatever it releases. i dont care what it is cause im not gonna change my habits one single bit no matter what knowledge someone spits at me. so i deem this thread....DU DU DUN <------> PoInTlEsS

[Rock_Sci]

No.
Just if you know why, you can fix it.

I will release something soon and I wanted to educate the Cynics.

[Synthesizer Man]

By saying "unburned butane" I meant exactly that! :)

I meant butane that hadn't been exposed to naked flame. I used that term from the post before mine.

[Captain Hanks]

Well then I'm guessing my lungs wont be screwed from butane lighters I think

[dankus maximus]

dudes, i think what this guys reasearch is saying, is not that a butane lighter produces no taste, but that that specific taste really has northing directly to due with butane, what you taste is a biproduct of the reaction with butane in it.

im pretty sure there isnt unburned butane as he explained in his post(dont remember if he cited that), burning butane is a very efficient reaction.

i dont think hes trying to convert anyone here, i think hes just telling you guys that what youre tasting isnt butane. nothing mroe than a sicence lesson.

also thats a pretty cool looking vaporizer, but youre overlooking the fact that human inhilation, isnt linear. sometimes theyll eb sucking harder than others, your tempurature may be less constant than you think! i use a similar style vaporizer, called the dominizer(google it), that is pretty much like yours, but without the tempurature loop, instead they use the glass rod to distance the green from the flame.

i DO also think, that you should make a version that can slide into a bong, becuase that would make vaporbonging VERY easy!

it looks like a cool gadget and it has potential.

[Rock_Sci]

Sorry Synthesizer Man, I misread yours or was thinking of another.


dudes, i think what this guys reasearch is saying, is not that a butane lighter produces no taste, but that...

Thank You very much for the translation !!!


but youre overlooking the fact that human inhilation, isnt linear. sometimes theyll eb sucking harder than others, your tempurature may be less constant than you think!

If you would watch the ultimate demo video on my site, I vary the inhale rate and hold temperature. I have a surrogate smoker, a dust buster wired in to my computer to control its speed, effectively the inhale rate.

I run at 50% vac while I dial in different temperatures. I dial 330 F, then drop the vac to 20%, temp holds steady. Then vac to 100%, temp still holds steady. The temperature stayed with in 5 degrees during these flow changes. These measurements are with calibrated thermocouples.

With a true temperature controller, it will hold temperature independent of inhale rate. If you are putting enough power into my vape it will control temperature. Believe it or not a 1.5 inch lighter flame is putting out about 70 watts! But, use a torch lighter:rasta:

[Rock_Sci]

I made this little video where I put carbon on a white cup with a lighter, then burn it off with a torch lighter.
http://www.rockscillc.com/Images/butane&cup.avi