Democrats,terrorists and 'brotherly way'

[Torog]

Democrats, terrorists and 'brotherly way'

World Defense Review ^ | 11-30-06 | Vasko Kohlmayer - OP/ED



FROM WORLD DEFENSE REVIEW

Published 30 Nov 06

Democrats, terrorists and 'brotherly way'

By Vasko Kohlmayer

Special to World Defense Review

In one of the most startling incidents in our history, America's sworn enemy used the term 'brotherly' when referring to one of our major political parties. The remarkable pronouncement came amidst the celebrations that erupted in the terrorist ranks after the democratic victory in the latest elections.

Given all that the democrats have done, the affection in which they are held by our foes is neither unjustified nor surprising. They have more than earned it by systematically subverting this country's war effort while simultaneously proffering assistance to those who have pledged to destroy us.

Democrats' devious deeds are too numerous to be fully recounted, but here at least are some of the highlights:

They have tried to prevent us from listening on terrorists' phone calls
They have sought to stop us from properly interrogating captured terrorists
They have tried to stop us from monitoring terrorists' financial transactions
They have revealed the existence of secret national security programs
They have opposed vital components of the Patriot Act
They have sought to confer unmerited legal rights on terrorists
They have opposed profiling to identify the terrorists in our midst
They have impugned and demeaned our military
They have insinuated that the president is a war criminal
They have forced the resignation of a committed defense secretary
They have repeatedly tried to de-legitimize our war effort
They want to quit the battlefield in the midst of war.

To see just how bad things really are, ponder this question: If the terrorists were represented by a party in our political system, how would their foreign policy program substantially differ from that of the present-day democrats?

By effectively becoming a political arm of our sworn enemy, the Democratic Party has staked out a position that is unparalleled in our country's history. They have gone so far that now even the terrorists toss about the term 'brotherly' when celebrating their electoral success. This is truly something to marvel at, since democrats are infidels too and as such should be anathema in Islamists' eyes. How many times have they told us that in their world the Allah-less must either convert or die?

So helpful have the democrats been, however, that even these virulent fanatics are willing â?? for the time being at least â?? to overlook their faithlessness and instead speak of them in the most endearing of terms.

The suspicion that many democrats are not on our side has been grating on the American psyche for some time now. But since most people can't fathom why some Americans would want us to lose, the suspicion has not coalesced into a firm conviction. To put it differently, there is a reluctance to conclude the obvious, because we don't want to believe that such treachery could possibly reside in American hearts.

The inability to grasp their motive, however, should not preclude us from making the correct inference based on the evidence of their actions. And the mass of that evidence points overwhelmingly toward this conclusion: America's liberal elites want us to lose this war and they are using the Democratic Party to accomplish their objective.

It would not be the first time they have tried to do this. Some three decades ago, they did all they could to bring about our disgrace in Vietnam. In the end they succeeded and the United States suffered the most humiliating and ignominious defeat in its history.

It is as revealing as it is worrisome that almost all of the current democratic leadership was actively involved in that effort. Bill and Hilary Clinton, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, Howard Dean, Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin and Nancy Pelosi were all in one way or another personally engaged in the anti-war movement. And when at last it bore its disastrous fruit, they gloated and danced in the streets. Exhilarated and jubilant, they deemed America's disgrace their finest hour. In their skewed world, America's defeat came to represent their personal triumph.

Today these very people hold the reins of the Democratic Party and are trying to achieve in Iraq what they did in Vietnam. Should they succeed, we will face consequences too terrible to contemplate. While the Vietnamese communists were content with humiliating us on their own soil, the Islamists will come after us with a vengeance which is something they have pledged over and over again. This time the toll will not be confined to our military casualties, but will translate into death and mayhem in our midst.

The terrorists' exhilaration at the election results show just how certain they are where the democrats' allegiance lies. Even though they live behind the ocean, they understand something we have tried so hard to overlook: The Democratic establishment will give them its support and assistance all the while stripping America of the tools and abilities to carry on the fight.

It is time that the American people finally realized what the terrorists know all too well: America's liberals are not on our side and will do all they possibly can to bring about our defeat. The fact that most of us cannot relate to their dark desire does not mean it's not real. An honest look at their behavior reveals just how powerful it really is and to what lengths they are willing to go to see it fulfilled.

Wise men and prophets throughout the ages have warned against the darkness that lurks in the human heart. That this darkness takes many forms is attested by the ignominy and perfidy that comprise much of mankind's history. In our time and place, hatred of one's country is one of its most insidious manifestations. Sadly, the Democratic Party has become a willing receptacle for those who under its spell.

Not all democrats dislike their own country, but some clearly do. Most importantly, this dislike is endemic among the liberal leadership of the Democratic establishment. So embittered are they that they are willing to do virtually anything to demean America, even to have her beaten by our enemies. Thirty years ago they brought about our humiliation at the hands of the Vietnamese communists and today they seek a repeat with Islamic terrorists.

It is unsettling that even after the agonizing lessons of Vietnam these people are once again succeeding in duping many well-meaning citizens into supporting policies that cannot but result in a defeat that will be even more painful and dire.

The terrorists have grasped the truth about the Democratic Party some time ago. Let's hope that the American public will do so before it's too late.

..............................

â?? Born and raised in former communist Czechoslovakia, Vasko Kohlmayer is a naturalized American citizen. His work has appeared in The Baltimore Sun, The Washington Times, Frontpage magazine, The American Thinker, The Jewish Press, RealClearPolitics, and others. Email Kohlmayer at [email protected] ([email protected])

© 2006 Vasko Kohlmayer

.................

NOTE: This is an opinion piece, not owned by World Defense Review, and WDR accepts no responsibility whatsoever for the accuracy or inaccuracy of the content of this or any other story published on this website. Copyright and all rights for this story (and all other stories by the author) are held by the author.

[andruejaysin]

Get down on your knees and thank the dems for what little freedom you have left. After they get done with the first amendment you know which one comes next, don't ya? Give you a hint- 1,2,.... If the freedom we have here frightens you to much, perhaps you should consider moving to iran, I hear they have the sort of represssive government you want. But leave real americans our freedom.

[eg420ne]

Torog N Bong keeps on beating that democraps & terrorist are out to get you...DUCK & COVER!!!!!!

NOTE: This is an opinion piece, not owned by World Defense Review, and WDR accepts no responsibility whatsoever for the accuracy or inaccuracy of the content of this or any other story published on this website. Copyright and all rights for this story (and all other stories by the author) are held by the author---------------HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHa Damn i shouldnt read the whole thing next time

[Hamlet]

They have tried to prevent us from listening on terrorists' phone calls
They have sought to stop us from properly interrogating captured terrorists
They have tried to stop us from monitoring terrorists' financial transactions
They have revealed the existence of secret national security programs
They have opposed vital components of the Patriot Act
They have sought to confer unmerited legal rights on terrorists
They have opposed profiling to identify the terrorists in our midst
They have impugned and demeaned our military
They have insinuated that the president is a war criminal
They have forced the resignation of a committed defense secretary
They have repeatedly tried to de-legitimize our war effort
They want to quit the battlefield in the midst of war.

lol...thank god George Orwell warned us ahead of time so we could see it coming...eh? Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that we haven't completely lost our sanity and handed all of our freedoms and rights over to Big Brother.

[B.Basher]

lol...thank god George Orwell warned us ahead of time so we could see it coming...eh? Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside that we haven't completely lost our sanity and handed all of our freedoms and rights over to Big Brother.

Lol. It's threads like this that make me feel depressed for humanity. Could O'Reilly be any more a nazi in disguise? Generalise an entire viewpoint on 'freedom' to your opposed political party and sugarcoat the good they have done into crimes.

So when is the USA going to be attacked again? ... anyone? Soon? How soon? You don't know? Ok. Good luck with that. :thumbsup:

[Bong30]

NO idiot, the Nazi is the president of Iran......


you would have been one of the guys that said Hitller was missunderstood...right?

Orielly is a Talking head.......Thats it


he is not making NUKes......the president of Iran is, and said he was going to Kill the Jews.


I dont remember hear Bill saying he was going to kill the Jews....man you are stupid

[Bong30]

^^^^ see in that pic^^^^

amab a blah blah jab is holding the arm of the hostage back in the 70s


BUT wait IT IS GDUBS FAULT.

[andruejaysin]

NO idiot, the Nazi is the president of Iran......

It's true, he was even in the hitler youth. Wait, no, that was the pope. Nevermind.

[Bong30]

EG shut the fuck up

I will kick your ass with every screen name you got..... St pladius rign a bell? do it once do it all the time

[Bong30]

The pope said he was going to kill all the jews.....I missed it.


Post it smart guy

[andruejaysin]

Wow bong, ya got me. I apologize for everything. Lets all be nice to bong, I'd feel bad if he starts crying and shorts out his keyboard. And when those iranian tanks get to your town you will, too.

[Bong30]

Actions speak louder then words.
Hitler DID kill jews.
The pope may have said it, but there is no evidence he acted upon it.
Every time I hear some white supremest say that the holocaust was exaggerated, I want to drive a wooden steak through their impure heart...

Thank you Billion.....
you are right.


Bill.....Listen.... the president of Iran is going to Nuke them. he said he was.


The pres Of Iran is a Holocaust denier.......put a steak through his heart and all that support him.


Hitler killed 6 million jews.... there is 6 million jews in Isreal right now....

[Bong30]

Wow bong, ya got me. I apologize for everything. Lets all be nice to bong, I'd feel bad if he starts crying and shorts out his keyboard. And when those iranian tanks get to your town you will, too.

Dumbass....There will never be Irainian Taks here in colorado. Duhhhhhh


They will Nuke Isreal, and mabey a Long range Missle to the east coast.

if the detonate a nuke 100 miles above the ground....life will end as we know it.

Guys what if they nuked....televiv, London, and NYC. what would happen

do we just want to watch it like it Fight club?

[Bong30]

Unfortunately, it's the liberals who will have to deal with a threat on American soil. All the death hungry conservatives have too much to talk about in other countries to really focus on their own.
Want a fine example? 9/11 = attack another country + minimal time spent trying to defend our own country. I guess they figure if they kick a weaker countries ass, it will trick the stronger countries (North Korea) into NOT attacking us. Man that's a genius plan.

once they brough the fight to american soil we had to do something...


My point is

Saddam was a bad Man...unstable. Better than right now? better than the way it could be...NO

We need afghanistan and Iraq for stratigic position On IRAn...look at the map.

Keep an Open Mind Bill

[andruejaysin]

once they brough the fight to american soil we had to do somethingBut we didn't. Instead we attacked a country that had nothing to do with 9/11. Now you want to attack another, also having nothing to do with 9/11. Just because you caught syphilis from an iranian prostitute does not justify a war.

[andruejaysin]

Sorry, I was was confused for a minute, it was hitler who caught syph from a jewish hooker. After awhile all nazis start to look alike.

[Bong30]

My mind is very open.
I see that...keep trying. you have been brain washed and you dont even know it. not a dig.

The world isn't some big game of chess, Bong. There are more than just "pieces" that get lost in war.

yes I know that...come on. Kinda like chess though.


Are you so full of yourself and your political party that you really believe that our country cannot prosper without attacking other countries?

What political Party? NOT LEFT OR RIGHT right or wrong! Im an independent conseritive not...republican.....


Defense is one thing, attack is another.

Some times the best deffence is a good offence

If America had a focused defense, 9/11 would never have happened.

Maybe maybe not?
Even now we're open to attacks.

Yes cause were are affraid to call it like we see it PC is going to kill us.

You know why? Because our government thinks that war is the only way.

We didnt go to war after the Cole, WTC attack #1....it was time Bill


So what if Saddam is a bad man? There are lots of bad men out there, but it doesn't mean that it is America's responsibility to put them down.

I agree,,,,,,,BUT, IF NOT US THAN WHO? IF NOT NOW THEN WHEN?


I'd rather make sure there was absolutely no way for that kind of evil to get into our country, rather than send our own sons and daughters out to meet it.
I agree first place is to get rid of all the madrasass (brought here by the saudis) in the USA that teach Christians are Apes and pigs....
If America would stay out of other peoples business, nobody would have a reason to hate us.
Dead wrong....We are Infidels....please learn that

Let the world rot in it's hate, let America prosper in it's love.

That is where Liberism is a mental disorder....Love? tell them that



Take care Bill:thumbsup:

[Bong30]

Sorry, I was was confused for a minute, it was I who caught syph from a jewish hooker.


Nasty EG.....:dance:

[Bong30]

PLease bold you stuff...i got about 2/3 through and my eyes gave out


your are right im dumb.....






what does that make you guys?

[Zimzum]

NO idiot, the Nazi is the president of Iran......


you would have been one of the guys that said Hitller was missunderstood...right?

Orielly is a Talking head.......Thats it


he is not making NUKes......the president of Iran is, and said he was going to Kill the Jews.


I don't remember hear Bill saying he was going to kill the Jews....man you are stupid


The president of Iran holds little power in the country. His job is to basically enforce the laws of the "Leader". True power there is in the hands of the Ayatollahs.

And I ask you why arn't the jews living in Iran that afraid of there government?


Iran's proud but discreet Jews
By Frances Harrison
BBC News, Tehran



Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots.

It is dawn in the Yusufabad synagogue in Tehran and Iranian Jews bring out the Torah and read the ancient text before making their way to work.

It is not a sight you would expect in a revolutionary Islamic state, but there are synagogues dotted all over Iran where Jews discreetly practise their religion.

"Because of our long history here we are tolerated," says Jewish community leader Unees Hammami, who organised the prayers.

He says the father of Iran's revolution, Imam Khomeini, recognised Jews as a religious minority that should be protected.

As a result Jews have one representative in the Iranian parliament.

"Imam Khomeini made a distinction between Jews and Zionists and he supported us," says Mr Hammami.

'Anti-Jewish feeling'

In the Yusufabad synagogue the announcements are made in Persian - most Iranian Jews don't really speak Hebrew well.

Jews have lived in Persia for nearly 3,000 years - the descendants of slaves from Babylon saved by Cyrus the Great.

Over the centuries there have been sporadic purges, pogroms and forced conversions to Islam as well as periods of peaceful co-existence.

These days anti-Jewish feeling is periodically stirred by the media.


Whatever they say abroad is lies - we are comfortable in Iran - if you're not political and don't bother them then they won't bother you
Hersel Gabriel

Mr Hammami says state-run television confuses Zionism and Judaism so that "ordinary people may think that whatever the Israelis do is supported by all Jews".

During the fighting in Lebanon a hardline weekly newspaper, Yalesarat, published two photographs of synagogues on its front page full of people waving Israeli flags celebrating Israeli independence day.

The paper falsely said the synagogues were in Iran - even describing one as the Yusufabad synagogue in Tehran and locating another in Shiraz.

"This provoked a number of opportunists in Shiraz," explains Iran's Jewish MP, Maurice Mohtamed, "and there was an assault on two synagogues."

Mr Mohtamed says the incident was defused by the Iranian security forces, who explained to people that the news was not true.

And with the coming to power of an ultra-conservative like President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, there has been increased concern internationally about the fate of Iranian Jews.

'Holocaust denial'

Mr Ahmedinejad has repeatedly used rabid anti-Israeli rhetoric - slogans like "wipe Israel off the map" - and most controversially he has questioned the number killed in the Holocaust during World War II.

Mr Mohtamed has been outspoken in his condemnation of the president's views - in itself a sign that there is some space for Jews in Iran to express themselves.


"It's very regrettable to see a horrible tragedy so far reaching as the Holocaust being denied ... it was a very big insult to Jews all around the world," says Mr Mohtamed, who has also strongly condemned the exhibition of cartoons about the Holocaust organised by an Iranian newspaper owned by the Tehran municipality.

Despite the offence Mahmoud Ahmedinejad has caused to Jews around the world, his office recently donated money for Tehran's Jewish hospital.

It is one of only four Jewish charity hospitals worldwide and is funded with money from the Jewish diaspora - something remarkable in Iran where even local aid organisations have difficulty receiving funds from abroad for fear of being accused of being foreign agents.

Most of the patients and staff are Muslim these days, but director Ciamak Morsathegh is Jewish.

"Anti-Semitism is not an eastern phenomenon, it's not an Islamic or Iranian phenomenon - anti-Semitism is a European phenomenon," he says, arguing that Jews in Iran even in their worst days never suffered as much as they did in Europe.

Israeli family ties

But there are legal problems for Jews in Iran - if one member of a Jewish family converts to Islam he can inherit all the family's property.

Jews cannot become army officers and the headmasters of the Jewish schools in Tehran are all Muslim, though there is no law that says this should be so.

But their greatest vulnerability is their links to Israel - where many Jews have relatives.

Seven years ago a group of Jews in the southern city of Shiraz was accused of spying for Israel - eventually they were all released. But today many Iranian Jews travel to and from Iran's enemy Israel.


In one of Tehran's six remaining kosher butcher's shops, everyone has relatives in Israel.

In between chopping up meat, butcher Hersel Gabriel tells me how he expected problems when he came back from Israel, but in fact the immigration officer didn't say anything to him.

"Whatever they say abroad is lies - we are comfortable in Iran - if you're not political and don't bother them then they won't bother you," he explains.

His customer, middle-aged housewife Giti agrees, saying she can easily talk to her two sons in Tel Aviv on the telephone and visit them.

"It's not a problem coming and going; I went to Israel once through Turkey and once through Cyprus and it was not problem at all," she says.

Gone are the early days of the Iranian revolution when Jews - and many Muslims - found it hard to get passports to travel abroad.

"In the last five years the government has allowed Iranian Jews to go to Israel freely, meet their families and when they come back they face no problems," says Mr Mohtamed.

He says there is also a way for Iranian Jews who emigrated to Israel decades ago to return to Iran and see their families.

"They can now go to the Iranian consul general in Istanbul and get Iranian identity documents and freely come to Iran," he says.

The exodus of Jews from Iran seems to have slowed down - the first wave was in the 1950s and the second was in the wake of the Iranian Revolution.

Those Jews who remain in Iran seem to have made a conscious decision to stay put.

"We are Iranian and we have been living in Iran for more than 3,000 years," says the Jewish hospital director Ciamak Morsathegh.

"I am not going to leave - I will stay in Iran under any conditions," he declares.

Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

Published: 2006/09/22 06:46:50 GMT

[andruejaysin]

Nasty EG.....:dance:
Did ya think that up by yourself, or did mommy help you? No, she's busy with your new iranian stepdaddy. Maybe you should try arguing real issues, you can't look more foolish than you do now.

[Bong30]

Whatever they say abroad is lies - we are comfortable in Iran - if you're not political and don't bother them then they won't bother you
Hersel Gabriel

So as long as you keep your mouth shut about Islam and how we are not apes and pigs...all is fine.

Great find!!!!!!

BBC.?????...mine as well have been aljazera Look up propaganda......

This is how out of touch you are.....

There are some that think the president might over take the aytollas....

he is a 12er the aytollas outlawed it in the 70s?????? huummmmm?

little to radical for the radicals?????

[Bong30]

By "you guys" I assume you mean liberals? I guess that makes us, not dumb. Right? That's the answer you were looking for right?



There ya go. I didn't know you couldn't read, or would've did it before. Take care, Bong.

I was trying to be civil with your dumb ass......Ok we can go at it Fat boy....

[Zimzum]

Bong why don't we attack Russia and or China? They got nukes. NKorria is very close to having nukes. I sapose you don't realize that IF we were to make the first strike on Iran that there closest allies Russia and China would sit there and do nothing?

[andruejaysin]

So as long as you keep your mouth shut about Islam and how we are not apes and pigs...all is fine.
This seems something of an obsession for you, yet the more you post the more I think they may be on to something. Certainly you are less than a fully evolved human.

[Zimzum]

Whatever they say abroad is lies - we are comfortable in Iran - if you're not political and don't bother them then they won't bother you
Hersel Gabriel

So as long as you keep your mouth shut about Islam and how we are not apes and pigs...all is fine.

Great find!!!!!!

BBC.?????...mine as well have been aljazera Look up propaganda......

This is how out of touch you are.....

There are some that think the president might over take the aytollas....

he is a 12er the aytollas outlawed it in the 70s?????? huummmmm?

little to radical for the radicals?????


Bong what I were to show a video of a kid who is growing up in a racist family from Anywhere, USA. I bet there comments on blacks/etc would be no different than that kid who made that "Jews are pigs and apes" racial comment. Do you truly believe that a 3yo has the ability to fully understand there comments/actions? You supposedly have kids yourself you should know this.

[Psycho4Bud]

Bong what I were to show a video of a kid who is growing up in a racist family from Anywhere, USA. I bet there comments on blacks/etc would be no different than that kid who made that "Jews are pigs and apes" racial comment. Do you truly believe that a 3yo has the ability to fully understand there comments/actions? You supposedly have kids yourself you should know this.

Do they ALSO teach the kid on how to properly wear a suicide vest? Do they smile at the T.V. as they watch their father die in a car that was loaded with explosives? Apples to oranges.............

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[andruejaysin]

Well, maybe they should, I'd have more respect for the klan if they showed more dedication to their cause.

[Psycho4Bud]

Well, maybe they should, I'd have more respect for the klan if they showed more dedication to their cause.

There are assholes in all races, religions, etc.........the key is to know which are also dangerous......

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Zimzum]

Do they ALSO teach the kid on how to properly wear a suicide vest?

Maybe not with a suicide vest. But if you combined a group like the KKK with the NRA and you could have very young kids with the shooting skill of a US Marine = just as deadly if not more so

Do they smile at the T.V. as they watch their father die in a car that was loaded with explosives?

I don't know, do they? Can't claim to have seen first hand or video of this.

Apples to oranges.............

Yes apples and oranges are technically different, but they still fall into the same food classification

Have a good one!:thumbsup:
You too :thumbsup:



:thumbsup:

[Psycho4Bud]

Do they smile at the T.V. as they watch their father die in a car that was loaded with explosives?

I don't know, do they? Can't claim to have seen first hand or video of this.


This show that Bong30 posted about showed just that + alot of the things that he states in here. It showed a family watching a video of the father going up in an explosion. The boy, about 9 if I recall, was telling the interviewer that this person was his father and he died a martyr.....ALL the kids in that family smiled as the car exploded........UNREAL!
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=91108

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Zimzum]

Correct Ive seen it. Ive also saw the one done on Discovery Channel. And the video Obsession (http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/). Alot of the clips Beck showed are in Obsession + alot more. There is a part they show the kids singing anti jewish songs in school. The thing is there are kids crying during it.

[B.Basher]

This show that Bong30 posted about showed just that + alot of the things that he states in here. It showed a family watching a video of the father going up in an explosion. The boy, about 9 if I recall, was telling the interviewer that this person was his father and he died a martyr.....ALL the kids in that family smiled as the car exploded........UNREAL!
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=91108


Sounds like something to watch after looking through related posts. If it happens to pop up on the Internet someone post it up here.

[Bong30]

Thanks P4B.....for the Back up i was doing Daddy type stuff....Hristmas shopping for cranium Mega masks...Barbie Van....


OHHH BTW... i found Big wheels.... remember those?....I love those


They have No idea what we are up aginst. None.



Bill....sorry about the fat comment.....you jab at me, I jab at you.... It sucks.


AS far as Russia and China......I dont hear the chinesse saying they want to kill the Jews.....

It wasnt Russia doing the WTC and Cole, WTC #1, and so on.

WHO WAS IT? Radical Islam. thats who.


you guys should watch the Vid....

[Zimzum]

Sounds like something to watch after looking through related posts. If it happens to pop up on the Internet someone post it up here.

Glen Beck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5422LKhSVTc) From Youtube, its broken down into 6 segments.

And I know you can find Obsession on torrent sites. You gotta find that link yourself as I'm not sure me posting it would be against board rules or not.





AS far as Russia and China......I dont hear the chinesse saying they want to kill the Jews.....

It wasnt Russia doing the WTC and Cole, WTC #1, and so on.

WHO WAS IT? Radical Islam. thats who.

Japan wasn't trying to kill the jews when it sided with Germany in WW2.

[Bong30]

Zim do you see a simalarity in

For other uses, see Kamikaze (disambiguation).
Kamikaze (Japanese: 神風; kami = god, spirit kaze = wind) is a word of Japanese origin, which in the English language usually refers to the suicide attacks by military aviators from the Empire of Japan, against Allied shipping, in the closing stages of the Pacific campaign of World War II.

These attacks, beginning in 1944, followed several very significant and critical military and strategic defeats for Japan, its decreasing capacity to wage war along with loss of experienced pilots, and the Allies' increased ability, due largely to the industrial capacity of the United States and Japan's reluctance to surrender.

AND

Suicide attack
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Suicide bomber)

This box: view • talk • edit
A suicide attack is an attack in which the attacker or attackers intend to kill others and intend to die in the process (see suicide). In a suicide attack in the strict sense the attacker dies by the attack itself, for example in an explosion or crash caused by the attacker. The term is sometimes loosely applied to an incident in which the intention of the attacker is not clear though he is almost sure to die by the defense or retaliation of the attacked party.

In modern times, such attacks are often carried out with the help of vehicles or explosive materials such as a bomb (a suicide bombing), or both (i.e. a vehicle loaded with explosives). If everything goes according to plan, the attacker is killed upon impact or detonation.

Suicide attacks are a kind of tactic, planned and organized by extremely committed military or paramilitary groups. According to Robert Pape, director of the Chicago Project on suicide terrorism and expert on suicide bombers, ninety-five percent of such attacks in recent times have the same specific strategic goal: to cause an occupying state to withdraw forces from a disputed territory. Pape notes that in recent decades suicide attacks as a political tactic are used against democratic countries in which public opinion plays a role in determining policy.

As a military tactic aimed at causing material damage in war, suicide attacks became widely known during the Second World War in the Pacific as Allied ships were attacked by Japanese kamikaze pilots who caused maximum damage by flying their explosive-laden aircraft into military targets. Since the 1980s, the apparent low cost and high lethality of the tactic perhaps explain its increased use by resistance movements, including guerrilla and insurgent groups -- termed "terrorist groups" by the targeted governments. Most notably, the tactic has been used in the Middle East and Sri Lanka. The Tamil Tigers, who have been waging a terrorist campaign against the Sri Lankan government, were, as of 2000, "unequivocally the most effective and brutal terrorist organization ever to utilize suicide terrorism"[1]. Suicide bombings by Islamist militants, mostly in the Al-Aqsa Intifada and the Iraqi insurgency, have been the most frequent and cumulatively destructive. The September 11, 2001 attacks used hijacked airplanes to become the largest and most destructive individual suicide attacks on one day.


They had there own aganda....Imperial Expansion....


Have you herd THE ENEMY OF MY ENEMY, IS MY FRIEND

answered it right there.....sweet..

[Bong30]

Ohh yeah how did we end it with japan?


we are dealing with the same Bullshit.....

Lets call North Korea.....Japan.

and Iran is Germany.........But worse they are building the Bomb and dont know MAD

[Zimzum]

And whats to say that IF we goto war with Iran another powerful nation steps in when our military is the most spread out? You do know the Iranian/Russian ties are no different than the US/Israel or US/British. The US isn't exactly on the "good boy list" with many other nations. Instead of running in all gun-ho give diplomacy a chance.


Iran is Germany.........But worse they are building the Bomb and dont know MAD

Germany tried also to develop the atom bomb too during ww2. They abandoned the idea and claimed it was technically imposable to make. We made it with the help of a German:thumbsup:

[Bong30]

Yeah But Iran Is running to the Bomb.... we knew what germany wanted with it huh?

Not to mention to hurry up the end of the world 12th emam blah blah

Iran is floating on oil...... they dont need the energy?????
He said he was going to kill the Jews....Huummmmm????

2+2=4 in my book


Give peace a chance.....while looking at a mushroom cloud over Isreal.....

it will be too late.....

[Bong30]

And whats to say that IF we goto war with Iran another powerful nation steps in when our military is the most spread out? You do know the Iranian/Russian ties are no different than the US/Israel or US/British. :

Russia is not what they used to be.......


If we need.... Ill suit up and kick some ass. Im sure many other americans would also......

[Zimzum]

You want to know how I think we could end this all? A large gathering of religious leader from all religions and nationalities to ask them to stop. They take religion like most Americans take football on Sundays. Your NOT gonna stop a holy war with guns and bombs. But a very last resort to use warfare.

Maybe if the whole world were tree hugging, pot smoking hippies we would all be too stoned to fight.

[Bong30]

we stopped japan.........

I have 2 japanese cars in my drive way..... War makes Peace. (when you take the gloves off, and quit policing everybody...huh)?

when you fight a P.C.....war you cant win... the left wing media weakens our resolve to win. Mine as well be working for Al quida in my book.

Or the NVA in walters case.......the NVA in janes case...


I see the point on everyone needs to smoke some weed......:)

[andruejaysin]

the left wing media weakens our resolve to win.
Yes, and that's a good thing. Resolve to win wars we should never have fought, no matter the cost, is not strength, it's stupidity. Stupidity is not a virtue, though I can understand why you wish it was.

[Hamlet]

This Vasko Kohlmayer is one twisted fuck, isn't he? I guess you can take the boy out of the fascism, but you can't take the fascist out of the boy. Let's revoke his greencard and trade him for a good, honest hard-working Mexican who understands the 'Stormtrooper' shit isn't what makes our country great.

[Torog]

This Vasko Kohlmayer is one twisted f*ck, isn't he? I guess you can take the boy out of the fascism, but you can't take the fascist out of the boy. Let's revoke his greencard and trade him for a good, honest hard-working Mexican who understands the 'Stormtrooper' shit isn't what makes our country great.

Howdy Hamlet,

Mr. Kohlmayer and the honest,hard-working Mexican,are perfect examples of who can be an American and whom can be an asset to America,because of their knowledge and experience,of living in oppressive countries..they git it now-that everyone deserves to be free..and that we must not rest-until everyone is free to exercise their free will,bestowed upon them,by God.

When you stand before God,in Judgement..and you will-how will you justify 'it's not our business' to free others from tryanny ? That we should just be content with our own,hard fought for Freedom,and look the other way-even though others suffer terribly at the hands of brutal dictators ?

How strong will you let Evil grow-before you summon the courage to confront it ? Why would you want to imperil the Free World,by saying 'it ain't our business' to stop the evil plans of evil men ?

BTW,if this ain't yer position,I apologize,I read all of the replies to this thread,and I picked up the 'it ain't our business' from one of the replies.

Have a good one ...

[Hamlet]

Torog, Torog, Torog, you're a good man but we've got to work on you. I know, I know...your 12 step program told ya you needed God, so you did the logical thing and went down to the Church you grew up in. Unfortunately, that church has changed, and pulled a Major con-job on you. They told you God was a Republican and this 'right wing' agenda is the way to think about things because that's the way God thinks. Well, here's a new flash! Jesus was a radical, hippy liberal!...lol.


When you stand before God,in Judgement..and you will-how will you justify 'it's not our business' to free others from tryanny ? That we should just be content with our own,hard fought for Freedom,and look the other way-even though others suffer terribly at the hands of brutal dictators ?

Now, read what you just posted, and read this shit you posted from Vasko Kohlmayer earlier.


They have tried to prevent us from listening on terrorists' phone calls
They have sought to stop us from properly interrogating captured terrorists
They have tried to stop us from monitoring terrorists' financial transactions
They have revealed the existence of secret national security programs
They have opposed vital components of the Patriot Act
They have sought to confer unmerited legal rights on terrorists
They have opposed profiling to identify the terrorists in our midst
They have impugned and demeaned our military
They have insinuated that the president is a war criminal
They have forced the resignation of a committed defense secretary
They have repeatedly tried to de-legitimize our war effort
They want to quit the battlefield in the midst of war.

Don't you see the conflict of interests in what he wrote and what you wrote there? Who's 'they' and who's 'our'? Because I guarantee you 'our' ain't talking about us!

I'm not giving up on you yet Torog. You're one of the few worth saving... ;)

[Bong30]

Yes, and that's a good thing. Resolve to win wars we should never have fought, no matter the cost, is not strength, it's stupidity. Stupidity is not a virtue, though I can understand why you wish it was.

I once herd....Any job worth doing is worth doing right......

so once we VOTED to go into Iraq....we need to finish the job.

Witch is set up a democracy in the middle of Irans Shite...cresent.

ring ring school.....

Shiite Crescent
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search

The "Shia Crescent"; numbers show percentage of Shia population. Note that most Shiites in Iraq actually live in the South, not the North of the country.The Shiite Crescent (or Shia Crescent) is a recent geo-political term used to describe a region of the Middle East where the majority population is Shi'a, or where there is a strong Shi'a minority in the population. It has been used to describe the potential for cooperation among these areas in Middle Eastern politics. The corresponding term is especially common in German, where it is known as Schiitischer Halbmond ("Shiite halfmoon").

The only actual nations where Shiite Muslims form a dominant majority are Azerbaijan and Iran. The shape of these two countries put together does not particularly resemble either a crescent moon or a half moon. However, by including the strong Shia majorities in Bahrain, Southern Iraq, and Lebanon, some analysts have attempted to draw an artificial, vaguely crescent-shaped swath across this region (see map).




See the hate freedom of religon....they can stand Infidels.

Im sure you live your life not finishing shit you start, but some peole dont live like that.


I hope you have learned that Iran is trying to establish the Shiite cresent and pull as much power as they can.

to kill the Jews..... you get it soon.

[Zimzum]

How strong will you let Evil grow-before you summon the courage to confront it ? Why would you want to imperil the Free World,by saying 'it ain't our business' to stop the evil plans of evil men ?





Without evil, good can not exist. It's natures way of implementing checks and balance. If you only had goodness how quickly it could become corrupt and pull a 180. The happenings in the middle east should be an eye opener as to the complete separation of church and state.

[andruejaysin]

That's the problem, it wasn't a job worth doing. A democracy anywhere in the middle east will be an enemy to the US. People who hate us will elect governments hostile to us. Of course iran wants to dominate the region, the problem is that the iraqi shiites want that, too. And we have handed them the opportunity. This shia theocracy will also include kuwait and the saudi oilfields, hope you have a bicycle, gas is gonna get pricey. As for israel, we learned a thousand years ago crusader kingdoms were a bad idea.

[Bong30]

They are the crusaders (jihadist...) we have lerned you cant convert by the sowrd.

They live in the dark ages, and need to be blown into the 2000s.

[andruejaysin]

Blow them then, if that's what you want. No one will ever know.

[Bong30]

Blow them then, if that's what you want. No one will ever know.

Yeah we could use this

[timmywilson]

Threads like this one amaze me when I read them on a forum called cannabis.com. I would think that most people who are registered users of this forum realize how the much the system lies and distorts the truth to keep cannabis illegal, yet so many people seem to ignore that the military-industrial complex lies about many, many things. How can so many not see right through the out and out lies and propaganda is amazing. Many of you must be smoking some really different kind of stuff.

Read this speech by President Dwight Eisenhower :

Public Papers of the Presidents, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960, p. 1035- 1040

My fellow Americans:

Three days from now, after half a century in the service of our country, I shall lay down the responsibilities of office as, in traditional and solemn ceremony, the authority of the Presidency is vested in my successor.

This evening I come to you with a message of leave-taking and farewell, and to share a few final thoughts with you, my countrymen.

Like every other citizen, I wish the new President, and all who will labor with him, Godspeed. I pray that the coming years will be blessed with peace and prosperity for all.

Our people expect their President and the Congress to find essential agreement on issues of great moment, the wise resolution of which will better shape the future of the Nation.

My own relations with the Congress, which began on a remote and tenuous basis when, long ago, a member of the Senate appointed me to West Point, have since ranged to the intimate during the war and immediate post-war period, and, finally, to the mutually interdependent during these past eight years.

In this final relationship, the Congress and the Administration have, on most vital issues, cooperated well, to serve the national good rather than mere partisanship, and so have assured that the business of the Nation should go forward. So, my official relationship with the Congress ends in a feeling, on my part, of gratitude that we have been able to do so much together.

II.

We now stand ten years past the midpoint of a century that has witnessed four major wars among great nations. Three of these involved our own country. Despite these holocausts America is today the strongest, the most influential and most productive nation in the world. Understandably proud of this pre-eminence, we yet realize that America's leadership and prestige depend, not merely upon our unmatched material progress, riches and military strength, but on how we use our power in the interests of world peace and human betterment.

III.

Throughout America's adventure in free government, our basic purposes have been to keep the peace; to foster progress in human achievement, and to enhance liberty, dignity and integrity among people and among nations. To strive for less would be unworthy of a free and religious people. Any failure traceable to arrogance, or our lack of comprehension or readiness to sacrifice would inflict upon us grievous hurt both at home and abroad.

Progress toward these noble goals is persistently threatened by the conflict now engulfing the world. It commands our whole attention, absorbs our very beings. We face a hostile ideology -- global in scope, atheistic in character, ruthless in purpose, and insidious in method. Unhappily the danger is poses promises to be of indefinite duration. To meet it successfully, there is called for, not so much the emotional and transitory sacrifices of crisis, but rather those which enable us to carry forward steadily, surely, and without complaint the burdens of a prolonged and complex struggle -- with liberty the stake. Only thus shall we remain, despite every provocation, on our charted course toward permanent peace and human betterment.

Crises there will continue to be. In meeting them, whether foreign or domestic, great or small, there is a recurring temptation to feel that some spectacular and costly action could become the miraculous solution to all current difficulties. A huge increase in newer elements of our defense; development of unrealistic programs to cure every ill in agriculture; a dramatic expansion in basic and applied research -- these and many other possibilities, each possibly promising in itself, may be suggested as the only way to the road we wish to travel.

But each proposal must be weighed in the light of a broader consideration: the need to maintain balance in and among national programs -- balance between the private and the public economy, balance between cost and hoped for advantage -- balance between the clearly necessary and the comfortably desirable; balance between our essential requirements as a nation and the duties imposed by the nation upon the individual; balance between actions of the moment and the national welfare of the future. Good judgment seeks balance and progress; lack of it eventually finds imbalance and frustration.

The record of many decades stands as proof that our people and their government have, in the main, understood these truths and have responded to them well, in the face of stress and threat. But threats, new in kind or degree, constantly arise. I mention two only.

IV.

A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peacetime, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been overshadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present

* and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientifictechnological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system -- ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

V.

Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we -- you and I, and our government -- must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

VI.

Down the long lane of the history yet to be written America knows that this world of ours, ever growing smaller, must avoid becoming a community of dreadful fear and hate, and be instead, a proud confederation of mutual trust and respect.

Such a confederation must be one of equals. The weakest must come to the conference table with the same confidence as do we, protected as we are by our moral, economic, and military strength. That table, though scarred by many past frustrations, cannot be abandoned for the certain agony of the battlefield.

Disarmament, with mutual honor and confidence, is a continuing imperative. Together we must learn how to compose differences, not with arms, but with intellect and decent purpose. Because this need is so sharp and apparent I confess that I lay down my official responsibilities in this field with a definite sense of disappointment. As one who has witnessed the horror and the lingering sadness of war -- as one who knows that another war could utterly destroy this civilization which has been so slowly and painfully built over thousands of years -- I wish I could say tonight that a lasting peace is in sight.

Happily, I can say that war has been avoided. Steady progress toward our ultimate goal has been made. But, so much remains to be done. As a private citizen, I shall never cease to do what little I can to help the world advance along that road.

VII.

So -- in this my last good night to you as your President -- I thank you for the many opportunities you have given me for public service in war and peace. I trust that in that service you find some things worthy; as for the rest of it, I know you will find ways to improve performance in the future.

You and I -- my fellow citizens -- need to be strong in our faith that all nations, under God, will reach the goal of peace with justice. May we be ever unswerving in devotion to principle, confident but humble with power, diligent in pursuit of the Nation's great goals.

To all the peoples of the world, I once more give expression to America's prayerful and continuing aspiration:

We pray that peoples of all faiths, all races, all nations, may have their great human needs satisfied; that those now denied opportunity shall come to enjoy it to the full; that all who yearn for freedom may experience its spiritual blessings; that those who have freedom will understand, also, its heavy responsibilities; that all who are insensitive to the needs of others will learn charity; that the scourges of poverty, disease and ignorance will be made to disappear from the earth, and that, in the goodness of time, all peoples will come to live together in a peace guaranteed by the binding force of mutual respect and love.

[Dutch Pimp]

...Ike...where are you?....we need you again...

..I heard that speech..live (on TV)...I remember..my dad saying..."we are going to miss him ..when he's gone"...

[Breukelen advocaat]

Just for a little balance, and humor, here's Adlai Stevenson - the candidate my parents voted for in the 1950's:

The General has dedicated himself so many times, he must feel like the cornerstone of a public building.

(Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965), U.S. Democratic politician. Quoted in Leon Harris, The Fine Art of Political Wit, ch. 10 (1964). Said of President Eisenhower.)


The Republicans have a "me too" candidate running on a "yes but" platform, advised by a "has been" staff.

(Adlai Stevenson (1900-1965), U.S. Democratic politician. Quoted in Leon Harris, The Fine Art of Political Wit, ch. 10 (1964).)

[Torog]

Torog, Torog, Torog, you're a good man but we've got to work on you. I know, I know...your 12 step program told ya you needed God, so you did the logical thing and went down to the Church you grew up in. Unfortunately, that church has changed, and pulled a Major con-job on you. They told you God was a Republican and this 'right wing' agenda is the way to think about things because that's the way God thinks. Well, here's a new flash! Jesus was a radical, hippy liberal!...lol.



Now, read what you just posted, and read this shit you posted from Vasko Kohlmayer earlier.



Don't you see the conflict of interests in what he wrote and what you wrote there? Who's 'they' and who's 'our'? Because I guarantee you 'our' ain't talking about us!

I'm not giving up on you yet Torog. You're one of the few worth saving... ;)

Howdy Hamlet,

Nope..I don't see the conflict,what I see,is Mr. Kolhmayer out-lining the many appeasement maneuvers of the clue-less Left,who don't have a mind-set capable of understanding the definition of an enemy,nor how to counter the enemy's tactics and strategy.

The Left,desires a return to a pre-911 world,they would rather make friends with the enemy,than hold them accountable for their actions, 'They',the Left,are akin to the French..who've mastered the fine art of surrender and appeasement,coupled with apology.

Have a good one ...

[Zimzum]

The Left,desires a return to a pre-911 world,they would rather make friends with the enemy,than hold them accountable for their actions, 'They',the Left,are akin to the French..who've mastered the fine art of surrender and appeasement,coupled with apology.

Have a good one ...

The bible should have taught you greater tolerance than that. Sad you took nothing from your respective religion. World peace > world domination.

"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent." - Gandhi

[Hamlet]

The Left,desires a return to a pre-911 world,they would rather make friends with the enemy,than hold them accountable for their actions.

Okay Torog, you can't see the conflict between all this preaching about 'freeing others from tyranny, and brutal dictators', -- and our own schemeing tyrants getting all indignant because we won't allow ourselves to loose our liberties to would-be dictators here? Do you actually trust these guys enough to turn over your freedoms and rights to them? Remember, it didn't bother Nixon to use the IRS to go after political enemies, and it wouldn't bother these cats in Washington to twist seized powers to their own corrupt purposes either. Cheney and Rumsfeld became buddies and cut their teeth working for the criminal Nixon administration and they still play ball like that.

But here's something you really need to think hard about since you seem pretty adament about throwing the Church jargon around. Remember what Jesus said? Luke 6:27. "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, <--So how does this go along with what you posted above about why it's a bad thing that Democrats want to make friends with the enemy?

And on that note, why do you think the people of Iraq are our enemies in the first place? Because they're not Christians? They had nothing to do with 911 and never attacked us. We're not freeing them from anything. We're slaughtering them for oil and they're fighting back.

[GetDown]

Saddam was a bad Man...unstable. Better than right now? better than the way it could be...NO


okay just started reading this thread, so need a mo to catch up, just got up to this post, bong right on man, whenever people complain about iraq and say america had no business there (this is something that happens ALOT over here in australia) i always ask them if they feel the people of iraq were better off when saddam was in poer, most of em actually say yes, which prooves they dont know what theyre on about, bush put an end to all the shit saddam was doing, an end to all the rape rooms saddams men used to abuse young women (some girls as young as 11 or 12) and now iraq is so much bettewr off, sorry if by now this post is old news, just really wanted to comment on it,,,,,

wilkl be back in a sec with something more uptodate....

[GetDown]

Thanks P4B.....for the Back up i was doing Daddy type stuff....Hristmas shopping for cranium Mega masks...Barbie Van....


OHHH BTW... i found Big wheels.... remember those?....I love those


They have No idea what we are up aginst. None.



Bill....sorry about the fat comment.....you jab at me, I jab at you.... It sucks.


AS far as Russia and China......I dont hear the chinesse saying they want to kill the Jews.....

It wasnt Russia doing the WTC and Cole, WTC #1, and so on.

WHO WAS IT? Radical Islam. thats who.


you guys should watch the Vid....

once again sorry, catching up, can u post a link to the vid, mustve missed it when u first posted? would love to watch it

[Hamlet]

okay just started reading this thread, so need a mo to catch up, just got up to this post, bong right on man, whenever people complain about iraq and say america had no business there (this is something that happens ALOT over here in australia) i always ask them if they feel the people of iraq were better off when saddam was in poer, most of em actually say yes, which prooves they dont know what theyre on about, bush put an end to all the shit saddam was doing, an end to all the rape rooms saddams men used to abuse young women (some girls as young as 11 or 12) and now iraq is so much bettewr off, sorry if by now this post is old news, just really wanted to comment on it,,,,,

You're kidding, right? We've got civilian guts splattered all over the sand, their homes and livelihoods destroyed, their women raped by soldiers (some as young as 11 and 12), and their country in ruins.

Yes Saddam was a bad egg, but he was a pussycat compared to the hell we've rained on regular 'joe iraqi' just going through life, trying to get by.

What kills me is people actually believe the Bush Administration is doing this because they really cared about the wellfare and freedom of the Iraqi people.

But then again, I heard a poll that said 40% of the American public thinks we're fighting in Iraq because they were directly responsible for 911. No wonder we were ignorant enough to elect a dunce like Bush into office.

[GetDown]

we stopped japan.........

I have 2 japanese cars in my drive way..... War makes Peace. (when you take the gloves off, and quit policing everybody...huh)?

when you fight a P.C.....war you cant win... the left wing media weakens our resolve to win. Mine as well be working for Al quida in my book.

Or the NVA in walters case.......the NVA in janes case...


I see the point on everyone needs to smoke some weed......:)

exactly right, plus after a war america and israel have always been known to do the right thing and helped their former enemies rebuild, look at israel, after the war a couple decades back they owned half of egypt i believe, they built on most of that land then gave it back (though giving it back was in retrospect a bad idea, as it set a precedence which is now being taken overboard) and america is helping iraq build their economy and government completely from the ground up

[GetDown]

You're kidding, right? We've got civilian guts splattered all over the sand, their homes and livelihoods destroyed, their women raped by soldiers (some as young as 11 and 12), and their country in ruins.

Yes Saddam was a bad egg, but he was a pussycat compared to the hell we've rained on regular 'joe iraqi' just going through life, trying to get by.

What kills me is people actually believe the Bush Administration is doing this because they really cared about the wellfare and freedom of the Iraqi people.

But then again, I heard a poll that said 40% of the American public thinks we're fighting in Iraq because they were directly responsible for 911. No wonder we were ignorant enough to elect a dunce like Bush into office.


mate let me ask you something, did you fight in the army? did you personally see civillian guts and women raped by soldiers? no i didnt think so, i was in the army, didnt fight in iraq but i was in the area and witnessed a hell of alot, i have seen the good the bush administration has done and is continuing to do, and i have even been thanked by iraqi civilians for everything i was doing (granted i didnt do much, but they saw the uniform and figured i did)

[Zimzum]

okay just started reading this thread, so need a mo to catch up, just got up to this post, bong right on man, whenever people complain about iraq and say america had no business there (this is something that happens ALOT over here in australia) i always ask them if they feel the people of iraq were better off when saddam was in poer, most of em actually say yes, which prooves they dont know what theyre on about, bush put an end to all the shit saddam was doing, an end to all the rape rooms saddams men used to abuse young women (some girls as young as 11 or 12) and now iraq is so much bettewr off, sorry if by now this post is old news, just really wanted to comment on it,,,,,

wilkl be back in a sec with something more uptodate....


Rape still happens. People during Saddam weren't shot at / being blown up / being beheaded on there way to the market. What we saved there people from they got back in the increased violence. Until things actually settle down there it wont be any different.

[Torog]

Okay Torog, you can't see the conflict between all this preaching about 'freeing others from tyranny, and brutal dictators', -- and our own schemeing tyrants getting all indignant because we won't allow ourselves to loose our liberties to would-be dictators here? Do you actually trust these guys enough to turn over your freedoms and rights to them? Remember, it didn't bother Nixon to use the IRS to go after political enemies, and it wouldn't bother these cats in Washington to twist seized powers to their own corrupt purposes either. Cheney and Rumsfeld became buddies and cut their teeth working for the criminal Nixon administration and they still play ball like that.

But here's something you really need to think hard about since you seem pretty adament about throwing the Church jargon around. Remember what Jesus said? Luke 6:27. "But I say to you that hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, <--So how does this go along with what you posted above about why it's a bad thing that Democrats want to make friends with the enemy?

And on that note, why do you think the people of Iraq are our enemies in the first place? Because they're not Christians? They had nothing to do with 911 and never attacked us. We're not freeing them from anything. We're slaughtering them for oil and they're fighting back.

Howdy Hamlet,

I worry more about the Dim's inheriting the powers that can be twisted and used against their political enemies,than I do about the repubs sinking to such a level.

I understand what Jesus meant,and we do just that,we and the Israeli's,provide medical attention to those terrorists who attack us,quite often,the terrorists who survive their homicide bombing attacks or other attacks,are treated in the same ER,as their victims. Since ya know the Bible so well,can ya find where Jesus said that we must allow ourselves to be totally vanquished by Evil ?

It was the leadership of Iraq,and it's supporters,that we are enemies with,not the common Iraqi,and if we're slaughtering them for oil,how come we don't have their oil flooding the market ? If we're slaughtering them for oil,we ain't being very effecient about it,we could quickly wipe em out,if we so choose.

Unless you are personally in possesion of every bit of intel from Iraq,you cannot categorically state,that saddam and sons,didn't have anything to do with the 9/11/01 attack.

Have a good one ...:jointsmile:

[Hamlet]

mate let me ask you something, did you fight in the army? did you personally see civillian guts and women raped by soldiers? no i didnt think so, i was in the army, didnt fight in iraq but i was in the area and witnessed a hell of alot, i have seen the good the bush administration has done and is continuing to do, and i have even been thanked by iraqi civilians for everything i was doing (granted i didnt do much, but they saw the uniform and figured i did)

Have I fought in Iraq? No I haven't. Have I personally seen civilian guts and soldiers raping women...yes I have. It's called the News. Conservative estimates of over 100 thousand civilian deaths..mostly women and children. Soldiers are on trial now for raping a 12 year old girl if you want to pick up a paper. Yeah, I'm sure they just want to give us a big group hug.

I work side by side with a kid who's spent the last 2 years over there doing the actual fighting and he has painted a pretty accurate picture for me of whats going on and the Iraqi peoples attitudes. <--they might have been kissing your ass but I guarantee you they don't love you.) That, along with plenty of credible journalism, and the real facts are all there. Maybe you want to believe whatever you were doing over there was worthwhile, but denying the horror and chaos we've inflicted on that country and the peoples real sentiment towards us is living in a fantasy.

Think about it...would you thank the country who dropped a bomb on your house, killed your family, destroyed your neighborhood, and left you a refugee living hand to mouth in poverty?

[Hamlet]

Since ya know the Bible so well,can ya find where Jesus said that we must allow ourselves to be totally vanquished by Evil ?

I do know the Bible pretty well. I've had it forced down my throat most of my life and I've read it all the way through. The part you're looking for with that statement would be 'turn the other cheek'. (pretty much an apology for the Romans who 'vanquished' Israel, but that's a whole other discussion)


It was the leadership of Iraq,and it's supporters,that we are enemies with,not the common Iraqi,and if we're slaughtering them for oil,how come we don't have their oil flooding the market ? If we're slaughtering them for oil,we ain't being very effecient about it,we could quickly wipe em out,if we so choose.

No we're not being very efficent about it. But Bush himself said Iraqi oil would pay for this whole invasion thing. Iraq sells most of it's oil to Europe and others...a successful invasion would change that. I assure you it was one of several motives for this invasion.


Unless you are personally in possesion of every bit of intel from Iraq,you cannot categorically state,that saddam and sons,didn't have anything to do with the 9/11/01 attack.

Yes I can because all the Intel about 911 is there to see. Bush has even finally admitted Iraq had no ties to 911. The reason I know there is not one shred of evidence is because the Bush administration would have been waving it in our faces as justification for invasion....and if he would have had that one shred of evidence, me and every other person against the Iraq war would be behind striking back at Iraq. No one said a word about Afganistan because it was justified. Suggesting Iraq was behind it is as proposterous and all the 911 conspiracy bullshit that Bush was behind it.

Of course you're welcome to your opinions Torog, but in this forum you're going to have to earn them...just like I have to...lol

If I'm full of shit, I have no problem changing my mind and saying I'm wrong. Hell, I spend most of my time being wrong. So if I am, set me straight with a good strong argument...

Have a good one :)

[Torog]

I do know the Bible pretty well. I've had it forced down my throat most of my life and I've read it all the way through. The part you're looking for with that statement would be 'turn the other cheek'. (pretty much an apology for the Romans who 'vanquished' Israel, but that's a whole other discussion)



No we're not being very efficent about it. But Bush himself said Iraqi oil would pay for this whole invasion thing. Iraq sells most of it's oil to Europe and others...a successful invasion would change that. I assure you it was one of several motives for this invasion.



Yes I can because all the Intel about 911 is there to see. Bush has even finally admitted Iraq had no ties to 911. The reason I know there is not one shred of evidence is because the Bush administration would have been waving it in our faces as justification for invasion....and if he would have had that one shred of evidence, me and every other person against the Iraq war would be behind striking back at Iraq. No one said a word about Afganistan because it was justified. Suggesting Iraq was behind it is as proposterous and all the 911 conspiracy bullshit that Bush was behind it.

Of course you're welcome to your opinions Torog, but in this forum you're going to have to earn them...just like I have to...lol

If I'm full of shit, I have no problem changing my mind and saying I'm wrong. Hell, I spend most of my time being wrong. So if I am, set me straight with a good strong argument...

Have a good one :)

Howdy Hamlet,

"Turn the other cheek",does not mean committing suicide,it means doing everything we can,before we must defend ourselves from evildoers..in the hope that the evildoers will change their minds and decide to not committ evil acts against others.

We never see all the facts,because doing such,would reveal our humint and elint assets,to the enemy. What you've seen,is pablum for the masses and the enemy.

As for a "good strong argument",I got the experience in the ME and oil patch,that you don't have,as well as being in the military..do you have such qualifications ?

Have a good one ...

[Dutch Pimp]

...having been in the military...is not a qualifier...for a good strong argument..

..I prefer to hear..from all sides...

[GetDown]

Have I fought in Iraq? No I haven't. Have I personally seen civilian guts and soldiers raping women...yes I have. It's called the News. Conservative estimates of over 100 thousand civilian deaths..mostly women and children. Soldiers are on trial now for raping a 12 year old girl if you want to pick up a paper. Yeah, I'm sure they just want to give us a big group hug.

I work side by side with a kid who's spent the last 2 years over there doing the actual fighting and he has painted a pretty accurate picture for me of whats going on and the Iraqi peoples attitudes. <--they might have been kissing your ass but I guarantee you they don't love you.) That, along with plenty of credible journalism, and the real facts are all there. Maybe you want to believe whatever you were doing over there was worthwhile, but denying the horror and chaos we've inflicted on that country and the peoples real sentiment towards us is living in a fantasy.

Think about it...would you thank the country who dropped a bomb on your house, killed your family, destroyed your neighborhood, and left you a refugee living hand to mouth in poverty?

mate, the media is a business, they arent usually interested in the truth, they are interested in getting people to read their articles, buy their magazienes, watch their shows, now what is the best way to get people to tune in?
Bagging America, they know that the people who support the war are going to be watching and getting pissed off, but they wont stop watching, and they know that the people against the war are also going to get pissed, anger is a powerfull emotion which the media wants you to feel, once your mad youll watch more news, read more papers and do what ever else, because rare is the person who says, this is pissing me off, ill just change the channel

having said that, even if you dont agree with me there you should atleast agree to the fact that watching something on the news is NOWHERE NEAR the same thing as actually being there, and they were not just kissing my ass, its very easy to tell who is being polite to you coz they have to and who genuinely appreciates you, if you cant tell the difference between an asskisser and someone that likes you then i do feel sorry for you

now i wouldnt thank someone who left me a refugee, but i would thank someone who took a dictator, a son of a bitch scumbag, who killed many of my family and friends, and whos soldiers raped my daughters and nieces, and put the bastard where he could no longer do any harm, then help fix my country so it actually runs smoothly and has a fair government,

now i did hear about those yank soldiers, apparently they raped a 14 yr old girl and i think her mother as well but im not sure, then killed the family, that is a very tragic and horrible thing and i hope all of those soldiers get sent to a prison where they will be raped up the ass daily for the rest of their shitty lives, but one incident is very different from the daily rapings that occured when saddam was in power, and these soldiers are actually going to get severly punished for their actions, as opposed to saddams men who could do as they pleased with no fear

[Hamlet]

So you're saying the video of bombed out villiages, mutilated children, dead bodies in the sand, and people screaming in agony and grief are fabrications of the media?


now i wouldnt thank someone who left me a refugee, but i would thank someone who took a dictator, a son of a bitch scumbag, who killed many of my family and friends, and whos soldiers raped my daughters and nieces, and put the bastard where he could no longer do any harm, then help fix my country so it actually runs smoothly and has a fair government,

If this is so and the people are grateful, why are we still fighting? Why isn't the entire country dancing around singing 'ding dong, the witch is dead'?

I'm sure plenty of people wanted Saddam out....won't deny that. But the reason he's out is because Bush and his business partners wanted him out for their own interests. They've left those people high and dry too many times to convince anyone they're doing it for the Iraqi people. For instance, after Desert Storm...Bush Sr. told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam. Some did thinking they had U.S. support. They didn't and were slaughtered. We didn't care because Kuwait and all it's oil was safe.

So in the process of 'freeing the Iraqis' we've killed more of our own people than were lost in 911 (not that Iraq had anything to do with 911)...and several hundred thousand Iraqis. Now they're in a civil war for control because they know damn good and well they can't count on us for anything but to serve our own lust for oil.

[GetDown]

So you're saying the video of bombed out villiages, mutilated children, dead bodies in the sand, and people screaming in agony and grief are fabrications of the media?


cough (http://www.aish.com/movies/JP/PhotoFraud.asp)

[GetDown]

I'm sure plenty of people wanted Saddam out....won't deny that. But the reason he's out is because Bush and his business partners wanted him out for their own interests.

also, i always find this funny, do you actually believe all bush is interested in is money and oil? i mean seriously, do you honestly believe it? i find that to be among the most ridicules of conspiracy theories......... and in response to that all i have to say is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ogPQtcQGY

granted south park is "just a cartoon" but this makes a damn good point, in fact that episode of southpark contains one of the only conspiracy theories that i would actually believe......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zDQ3ZaMYsw

[Hamlet]

Aah, so this whole war and all the deaths are a media fabrication! Wow, do I feel silly now. I guess the kid I work with was bullshitting me about having to hold his buddy's brains in, and what the smell of burning flesh is like.

http://www.aish.com/ <-- A couple of clicks gave me the source of your video. Why does this remind me of the claims that the Holocaust wasn't a reality, and the prison plant video analysis of 911?

[Hamlet]

also, i always find this funny, do you actually believe all bush is interested in is money and oil? i mean seriously, do you honestly believe it?

I've watched Bush shinanigans for years. Unfortunately he's been my Governor before he was my President, M8. He's a fucking oilman for cryin' out loud. My company was chased off from an oil billionaires hunting lodge by secret service because Dick Cheney was visiting his 'good buddy'. It's no mystery who's got their peckers in his back pocket. Cheney was the friggin' CEO of Haliburton who's got all the Iraq contracts, and subcontracts for Exxon. It's not a matter of belief or secret conspiracies. The facts are right out there in the open....they've made it quite obivous.

[GetDown]

Aah, so this whole war and all the deaths are a media fabrication! Wow, do I feel silly now. I guess the kid I work with was bullshitting me about having to hold his buddy's brains in, and what the smell of burning flesh is like.

http://www.aish.com/ <-- A couple of clicks gave me the source of your video. Why does this remind me of the claims that the Holocaust wasn't a reality, and the prison plant video analysis of 911?

im not saying everything is completely fabticated but i am using this to show you not every photo you see in the media is real, this is an aid to proove my point about the media, the kid you work with may have seen alot of bad, and i never said soldiers arent dying its tragic, but ask the kid you work with if he knew there was a chance he wouldnt come back alive, everyone i was stationed with knew what we were doing was dangerous, its tragic but thats the way it is,

as for why it reminds you of claims the holocaust wasnt real, i dunno why, it doesnt remind me of that at all, but whatever....

[medicinal]

now i wouldnt thank someone who left me a refugee, but i would thank someone who took a dictator, a son of a bitch scumbag, who killed many of my family and friends, and whos soldiers raped my daughters and nieces, and put the bastard where he could no longer do any harm, then help fix my country so it actually runs smoothly and has a fair government,
Do you actually believe that will happen? I have serious doubts about that government ever doing anything but killing sunnis and Kurds. And as far as the US being there, it is only agravating the situation. The only sane solution is to eat shit and leave. it was a bad Idea to start with and it's not getting better. The only ones benefiting from this war are the war contractors and the Iraqis that stole billions in US cash, yeah thats right, there are billions missing in cash doled out to the Iraqi govt. So lets just write this one off to stupidity on The Bush Regime and move the fuck on!

[GetDown]

eait im confused by your post, you say you do not believe the US will help the Iraqi Govt. but then you say the US gave the Iraqi govt billions of dollars? why would they do that if they didnt wanna help?

[medicinal]

]eait im confused by your post, you say you do not believe the US will help the Iraqi Govt. but then you say the US gave the Iraqi govt billions of dollars? why would they do that if they didnt wanna help?[/color]
Bribe money, the Iraqi people got squat! the puppet Govt. got the money and divided it up among their friends, see anything new here, it's just business as usual, the American way! We have basically just swapped dictators and after we leave Iraq, you will hear no news from there, just like Viet Nam, No news for years. I don't know how long you've been observing how the US govt. works in foriegn affairs, but bribing the leaders with our tax money, or overthrowing them, is the principle foundation of foriegn policy, then the corporations can pillage the resourses!