Why do I always see Red?

[kdspecial]

All the plants I have grown always get red veins on leafs and stems, espically in the early stages of life. for example...

3.5 weeks old. All Sativa Dominant except the One Indica which has bigger fan leafs also the most purpal veins right up the stem of the small plant.

ProMix with added perlite Ph 7, Ph Runoff was 6.5, Water with 2.5ml of Pure BLend Pro Grow per gallon, and superThrive, Ph 6.7-6.8. Water with every watering. Recomended Dose of Nutes on bottle is 7ml per gallon for seedlings and cuttings.

I started to give 1.5ml Per gallon of nutes at 2.5 weeks because the lower leafs were yellowing (I figured Nitrogen). At this point (2.5 weeks) I had purpal veins and stems as well. I am now up to 2.5ml at 3.5 weeks. (Im scared of overdoing it and burning my small plants) I have read the charts on the forums. It says red stems can be a P K problem.

Could Pure Blend Pur Grow Pro not have enough of The P K elements I need or should I just bump of the amount I am giving these plants?

Should I mix some of the Pure Blend Bloom into the nutes to add a bit more
P K?

like say 2.5ml Pur Grow and 1.5ml Bloom? Or could this really hurt my plants?

I haven't grown much but every small plant I have ever had has had purpal stems, somtimes it gets better as the plant gets bigger, somtimes worse. The plants still grows but it suks ass cuz I know its not right.

Anyways Perhaps im being over worried. I really want this small crop to work out to its best for some sativa lovin'. Im so sick of indica.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

kd

[josh180]

sometimes the purple stems are from the strain of the plant

[kdspecial]

yes I have herd of that as well but 2 strains both having that trait? I think its some nutrient problem. Perhaps its time I try another product besides Pur Grow.

I have read Botanicares stuff is good though.

kd

[Bree1978]

Mine look like that too -two strains- but I have several minor probs..so I can't put my finget on the issue. I was attesting it to ph probs (can't ck yet) but you say your ph is good....I also have variable temps (in my furnace/water closet) and was in the line of thinking that had something to do with it (still only a 10 degree vary which is supposed to be okay according to the grow faqs). I also have soil with nutes in it..... I'd like to know the definitive answer to this as well. If I figure it out, I'll let you know and vice versa please. S

[kdspecial]

Yeah my temps vari somtimes. But it usually stays between 25-30C

Im sure that may have somthing to do with it. But most of the cahrts say its nutrient lockup of P and K. Im just curious how its getting locked up when my Ph seems right.

Soil runoff was 6.5 and My water with added nutes is 6.8.

Im pretty sure these are stable Ph levels.

kd

[stinkyattic]

sup KD,
Your pH is perfect. You can stand to water with a touch higher pH since your soil is on the low end and pH tends to DROP over time, so watering with pH 7 is not a half bad idea.

Bump up your ferts. Your idea of adding a bit of bloom is a good one... in fact, you might try watering with just bloom on your next go-round to see if the problem goes away. Because the veins plus those pics you sent, I was thinking, the K deficiency would show as those nasty necrotic patches as the plant's immune system is weakened by too little K.

[kdspecial]

thanks Again.....

yeah I rember the guy at the store saying to mix my Botanicare Bloom and Grow Nutes together untill I see the plant is fully in the Veg cycle.

Perhaps he knows more about these specific nutes as well as our water situation in TO.

Thanks Ill kepp yall posted...

kd

[Bree1978]

Please do! I see that our temp span (about 10 deg F) are about the same. mine is 69-80 and yours are 77-86. Stinky, I don't have any blooming ferts yet. I have been using MG All Purpose plant food, 24-8-16. Should I try to give them just a little? Or just wait till I have blooming ferts? Thanks. S

[stinkyattic]

Stinky, I don't have any blooming ferts yet. I have been using MG All Purpose plant food, 24-8-16. Should I try to give them just a little? Or just wait till I have blooming ferts? Thanks. S
Are you going into bloom, or are you correcting a deficiency?
You can use shultz bloom plus or cactus food, which are both decent bloom substitutes that Home Depot, Walmart, etc. sell until you get a 'real' cannabis nute, or just use those. My 1st couple grows I didn't have real nutes and used the bloom plus... it was fine.
I mean, you CAN try flowering with your grow nute but it's not going to be a great result. If you had to, I'd dilute it to 1/4 strength and then add a high P like bone meal tea to get the middle # up there. Too much N is going to inhibit flowering.

[Bree1978]

I was trying to correct the def. I just got out of the seedling stage. I think I have Mg probs too...going for epsom salt unless you tell me different, lol. That was good info on bloom plus, I was wondering what I would use for this first grow. The closest hydro shop to me is an hour and half drive! Are the fox farm products sold somewhere online? The closest vendor when I went on thier site was, again, several hours away from me...in a totally unfamiliar city to me.. I do have several greenhouses in the area but it isn't that time of year. I've included pic of my red stems and praying plant. Again, don't have ph cker. Going to the city hopefully soon to purchase one. I foliar fed this one in the pic today. Once a little drier should I give it the MG all purpose? Thanks! S

[stinkyattic]

I've seen MUCH worse. If the redness of the petioles is visible from the top of the leaf, as reddening VEINS, you really need to worry, but actually your plant doesn't look bad to me.
You can get all sorts of stuff online... make sure whatever you get has micronutrients in it. The cactus stuff is interesting because cacti are one of the few classes of plants that require virtually NO nitrogen from the soil for growth! So cactus nutes are good for bloom! Mg probs... can't tell without seeing the leaf surface.

[kdspecial]

I've seen MUCH worse. If the redness of the petioles is visible from the top of the leaf, as reddening VEINS, you really need to worry,

You mean Redness on the top of the stem and down the veins in the middle of the leaf? Much like how its creeping up on my little plants... hahahahahahah I hurt them so..... they are mine to hurt!!!!! they enjoy the suffering!!!! They do I swear......little bastards...

look at the middle picture, Its all red on the tops of the stems and It has gradually moved along the leaf vein in the past couple days. (4days)

Ohh man, this growing shit is so painful and fun. It will be better once I have more experience under my belt

kd

[stinkyattic]

yeah KD yours are hurtin'.
But the bag o beans that just arrived this month should be pretty burly and hard to kill! :D

[kdspecial]

Yeah they'll pull through... they like the abuse... hahahahha

The one I have pictured is actully the worst one. Its the Indica strain. I do have one plant that has very little red. And actully it was the only plant that didn't really yellow at the bottom. It also stayed shorter and stumpier than the rest too.

Well im gonna try adding more ferts next watering. Im gonna try say...

2.5 ml or Pure Grow pro and 2.5ml Of bloom pro. This gets me close to the recomended 7ml per gallon.

Do you think I should add even more Stinky?

and dont forget to drop me and email with you addy... before xmas

kd

[Bree1978]

They have actually gotten better as they've got older. I also think my camera isn't the best when it comes to colors. pic one is of the plant that I think has Mg prob most. It has slight yellowing on edges of leaf, but you really can't tell from the pic, it is similar to KD's above pic but not nearly as noticiable yet. If it isn't Mg which maybe it isn't cause I don't see red on the leaf on the top, what else causes praying plants? I also noticed that my leaves are looking skinnier, if that helps identify. Pic two is my largest plant, much older than the others, I've included to show how *some* of the newer stems are deep red and while the stalk that used to be red now just has red veins running through it. This one isn't praying, but has some dark leaves and some light colored leaves. I attest the dark from a feeding that I gave it when I noticed yellowing slightly around edges of leaf. I didn't overfeed it, did I? The yellow did go away...I only gave 1/4 stregnth. Pic three is of the underside of a leaf of a younger one. Pic doesn't show really how red it is, but I don't think it is crazy bad like you said. The redness seems spotty now? At first all the stems and stalks were deep red -like the one depicted in number 2- and now some are and some aren't! Does that make sense? even on one stem i see green and red! weird. Let me know. Wow that was a book, sorry Stinky and KD! I'll be getting the cactus bloom like you said or I'll get something online....Thanks, S

[stinkyattic]

Did you repot and notice the problems lessening?
Just a thought, right around the time I get ready to transplant my seedlings out of their boring mild soil into a new home, bigger pot, better dirt, etc, they are starting to show the first hints of def.
btw Bree that plant that's in LST is awesome- LOTS of nice side shoots to play with for such a youngun!

[stinkyattic]

oh, and it's not a cactus bloom, there are 2 different schultz products that work- one is the 'bloom plus' for regular plants and the other is the cactus fert.

[stinkyattic]

hey KD I was reading back and noticed you're using the promix... might be part of your prob... it has tons of peat in it and even though the pH is fixed, peat holds water a bit too much and can contribute to weird def symptoms, especially in cooler temps.
Next time try my favorite mix, 50% composted manure and humus, 40% perlite, and 10% worm castings. The worm castings are a new one on me but my grower friend swears byu them and I'm coming around. The key though is LOTS of perlite and NO peat moss.

[Bree1978]

Wow you are fast!


Did you repot and notice the problems lessening?Just a thought, right around the time I get ready to transplant my seedlings out of their boring mild soil into a new home, bigger pot, better dirt, etc, they are starting to show the first hints of def.
btw Bree that plant that's in LST is awesome- LOTS of nice side shoots to play with for such a youngun!

Yes I repotted them about two weeks ago....that is when I started noticing improvement! Fingers crossed! KD- My first batch of soil had A LOT of peat in it. This batch has significantly less...and the plants are older...also could be reason for the improvement. So there you have it. We have peat in our soil and that makes them turn red.

Hopefully with a feeding my praying plants will be no more, lol.

Stinky I'm blushing that you said such nice things about my lst'd plant! you made my day, but I'll take it with grain of salt since that plant is three to four weeks older than the others, lol. I did EVERYTHING possible wrong to it in the first three weeks of life, ha!
Thanks for clearing up the cactus fert thing...I probably would have been stupefied at the store. Thanks KD and Stinky, I'm feeling so much better about this now that I understand cause (Bree sticks remaining peat soil in trash) S

[kdspecial]

Ohh Stinky I have been looking for that stuff trust me. Its not around in this city (Toronto). Besides in pre mixed Soil, by Scotts which has Humas,peatmoss, Perlite and Compost. Im pretty sure they call it there Cati Mix or orcid mix. My lack of a car prevents me from going anywhere counrty like to get some as well. At Xmas im going to London Ont. Im sure I can score some up there.

Bree Im glad to hear that your plant was Red althe way up the stem and now it seems to have gotten better. I will be hoping for that with my small plants as well.

Sorry to ask again Stinky,, but you are really the best info on the site. And friend I might add!!



Im gonna add more fertz next watering Should I.....

2.5 ml or Pure Grow pro and 2.5ml Of bloom pro. This gets me close to the recomended 7ml per gallon. Or just go with all Bloom fertz..

Do you think I should add even more nutes Stinky?

your the Best!!!!!! eeeeeeeeeeeeee

your annoying pal Kd

[stinkyattic]

Bump up your ferts. Your idea of adding a bit of bloom is a good one... in fact, you might try watering with just bloom on your next go-round to see if the problem goes away. Because the veins plus those pics you sent, I was thinking, the K deficiency would show as those nasty necrotic patches as the plant's immune system is weakened by too little K.

ppppthhhhbbbbt! =P

You need to get a car pool going with another local grower to make nursery-supply runs for perlite!!!!

[kdspecial]

You are too kind......

hahahahaha I must have missed that one....

im slow.. plus at work so im like bouncing back and forth from a wedding show to this forum...

the forum is taking all my attention. My audio design for their SFX suks Im gonna be here late... hahaha

seriously thanks Attic...

kd

[kdspecial]

You need to get a car pool going with another local grower to make nursery-supply runs for perlite!!!!


I can get perlite... just no hummas on its own... they are heavy on COCO here in Toronto... CANNA, GroTEK I can barely find ProMix BX. Just the normal house shit which im sure is similar. Its missing the BX... hahahah

Ill let you know what happens, Im sure you can't wait hahahahahaha

kd

[VOYAGER]

I could have swore i heard somewhere that red creeping up the plant was a sign that it has hit the limit of the amount of nutrients it can absorb(maybe riding the line right before burn) i guess i need to memorize that plant symptom guide

[kdspecial]

I could have swore i heard somewhere that red creeping up the plant was a sign that it has hit the limit of the amount of nutrients it can absorb(maybe riding the line right before burn) i guess i need to memorize that plant symptom guide

I have herd that as well. but since I have checked those charts it shows that it is a P K problem. Well at least on the charts that have been flying around the boards. As well Zandors Show Number 4 or 5 touched on this and said that as well.

I really don't think I have given them enough nutes to be honest.. FFrom one extream to the other. hahahah Too much nutes and killed them first time around now on my 3rd too little because im scared. Ill get it down it will just take some time..

My plants enjoy the pain anyways. they told me so..... hhahahahaha im Dumb

Im gonna try more (perhaps only one a few) if they Burn then ill know it was somthing else and start again...

kd

[Bree1978]

I found this: http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/1243.htm So maybe that will help us? I hadn't seen it before, I noticed while looking for my other problem....S

[kdspecial]

pretty cool duder...

that sound slike my plant. I add a slight bit of Epson salt 1/4 teaspoon. Cuz I thought that this could be the problem. It says to add half a tespoon but I add 1/4 cuz Stinky told me it would be enough to do the trick and too litttle to do any real damage if that wasn't the problem.

my grow shop said in Toronto I don't really have to worrie about that but I don't know. Praying leafs and such I have seen on my plants previous to this grow. But not so much this time around. Than again this whole grow I have used some Epson salt in all water...

I live ina aprtment with old taps and pipes. my water is Hard as fuk... like my face drys right out after a shower. Espically if i just shaved.

Im not sure if this will have an effect or not...

kd

[VOYAGER]

i at least know from my plants, here lately i've been mixing my concoction up stronger and stronger to see how much they could take and haven't burnt them yet, but i have noticed the red getting darker and darker. I'm sure it is probably a symptom in both cases but maybe there are more signs to more distingush the problem

[stinkyattic]

i at least know from my plants, here lately i've been mixing my concoction up stronger and stronger to see how much they could take and haven't burnt them yet, but i have noticed the red getting darker and darker. I'm sure it is probably a symptom in both cases but maybe there are more signs to more distingush the problem
Hmmm... lockout....

[VOYAGER]

Really, I should catch this now, & flush to correct

[VOYAGER]

Also they seem healthy otherwise and if i use straight water for a week or so i notice it lighten up.

[Perp]

Look at this chart for causes and remedies for red stems.

http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/tables.html

[kdspecial]

Yes that chart is the chart I have been refering too in this thread.

red Stems

N P K and maybe Mg

Also that Plant leaf chart from a good book that has been posted latly. Has a leaf with red stems saying P and K

I am going to repot and add more fertz... Or maybe just more fertz for another week or so,, I doubt they have outgrown those pots yet but maybe. I dont see any roots out the bottom yet.

hopefully I can fix my babys.....

kd

[Bree1978]

pretty cool duder...

that sound slike my plant. I add a slight bit of Epson salt 1/4 teaspoon. Cuz I thought that this could be the problem. It says to add half a tespoon but I add 1/4 cuz Stinky told me it would be enough to do the trick and too litttle to do any real damage if that wasn't the problem.

my grow shop said in Toronto I don't really have to worrie about that but I don't know. Praying leafs and such I have seen on my plants previous to this grow. But not so much this time around. Than again this whole grow I have used some Epson salt in all water...

I live ina aprtment with old taps and pipes. my water is Hard as fuk... like my face drys right out after a shower. Espically if i just shaved.

Im not sure if this will have an effect or not...

kd

My water is from a well, and has lots of iron in it, I am sure I am locking stuff out! I'm going to water them with distilled or rainwater next time with a slight feeding....I saw my def may be the other m that isn't Mg...said to be wary of it from lots of iron.....that's probably me..(saw in on growfaq's but can't remember which link)..not to mention the peat that probably didn't help at all. My praying leaves as much as I can determine were from being TOO close to the light....Moved them, hoping they will relax.

Did you notice the grofaqs said to make your water 6.0 so the plant can take up it nutes? Are you going to try it? S

[VOYAGER]

Hmmm... per that chart it doesn't seem to be a mg issue, so i guess it could be locking out one if not all the npk, don't want it to seem like im stealing a thread or any thing i may have got a problem spotted by someone and hopefully corrected,

[stinkyattic]

If it were a Mg issue there would be other earlier signs. The first one is the pale patches between the veins.

[Bree1978]

Here this is the link I was referring to http://www.drugs-forum.com/growfaq/675.htm

[kdspecial]

yeah that is a cool guide.

I get to about 7 I think before I stop... hahahahahah

Mainly the P Def seems like me. Ill fix that...

great thread everyone.... lots of input

kd