Which strains grow true?

[CityBoyGoneCountry]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that hybrids will not produce seeds that grow true to the parent. In order to produce more of the hybrid seeds you have to cross-pollinate the strains it came from all over again.

How can I find out which strains are stable and do grow true? Are they even for sale anywhere, or do the seedbanks only sell hybrids?

[CityBoyGoneCountry]

No one knows the answer?

Where are the breeding experts on this site?

[babystarbud]

what you are saying is right, hybrids that have been around for a long time are considered stable as they have been selectively bred and bred and bred to get the new strain stable, although most seedbanks dont really list that kind of info.

do a google for f1 and f2 hybrids should shed some light on what your looking for

[babystarbud]

F1 hybrids are the first filial generation seeds/plants or animal offspring resulting from a cross mating of distinctly different parental types, the offspring of which produce a new, uniform variety with specific and/or desirable characteristics from either or both parents. In fish breeding, those parents frequently are two closely related fish species, while in plant and animal genetics those parents usually are two inbred lines. Mules are F1 hybrids between horse and donkey. Crossing specific parent plants produces a hybrid seed (plant) by means of controlled pollination. To produce consistent F1 hybrids, the original cross must be repeated each season. As in the original cross, in plants this is usually done through controlled hand-pollination, and explains why F1-seeds are so expensive.

In agronomy the term "F1 hybrids" is usually reserved for agricultural cultivars where the parental types are two inbred and thus almost homozygous lines. Because of the almost pure homozygosity of the parent lines, F1 hybrids have a very high level of heterozygosity. As a result of this, F1 hybrids display improved growth and yield characteristics.

Gregor Mendel's groundbreaking work in the 19th century focused on patterns of inheritance and the genetic basis for variation. In his cross-pollination experiments involving two true-breeding, or homozygous, parents, Mendel found that the resulting F1 generation were heterozygous and all phenotypically resembled the dominant parent plant. Mendel’s discoveries involving the F1 and F2 generation lay the foundation for modern genetics. Today, classification of certain domestic hybrid breeds, such as the Savannah (cat), are classified by their filial generation number.

some stuff i copy/pasted...

Two populations of breeding stock with desired characteristics are subject to inbreeding until the homozygosity of the population exceeds a certain level, usually 90% or more. Typically this requires more than ten generations. After this happens, both populations must be crossed while avoiding self-fertilization. Normally this happens in plants by deactivating or removing male flowers from one population, taking advantage of time differences between male and female flowering or hand-pollinating[1].

In 1960, 99 percent of all corn planted in the United States, 95 percent of sugar beet, 80 percent of spinach, 80 percent of sunflowers, 62 percent of broccoli, and 60 percent of onions were hybrid. Such figures are probably higher today

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so your looking for an F1 hybrid


i dont know much on the subject, but it dosent help any when generally seed sites dont list genetic status/histories of hybrids, although you do see the words stable and f1 listed in descriptions somtimes.

skunk is probably one of the most well known stable hybrids

i think your best bet is to stick with old school hybrids that have been around a while if uniform plants is really important.

hope that helps

[babystarbud]

f2 hybrids are a cross between two f1 hybrids, and are not considered stable.

Definition as written by Terry:
The second filial generation; hybrids resulting from self-pollination within a population of F1 hybrid plants - they will not come true to form.

Definition as written by Margiempv:
Second generation resulting from self-pollinating or sib-crossing the F1 seedlings.

Definition as written by Magpye:
This is the product of two F1 plants that have been crossed. This is considered the second generation. This will not necessarily produce a great plant.

[babystarbud]

ive also read that f2;s can be inbred to become stable,

i guess thats why some seeds cost £20 and some cost £100...they have been bread-out and stabalised?

[babystarbud]

did a bit of googling myself there, lol


its just made me think, actually,,,,

100% sativa or indicas are pretty hard to come across as people breed for certain qualities ie: short with big buds and sativa high

the gene pool is getting pretty muddy, it wouldnt suprise me if in years to come, there are only 4 or 5 lines of seed that are used, or indeed avilable because of all the unregulated crossing.

who knows, one day there might just be 1 weed to rule them all, lol

[babystarbud]

mean, if you say for arguments sake that there were 4 origeonal cannabis plants, south american, african, asian and far eastern...

from those 4 there are hundreds if not thousands of hybrids available today....not to mention people recently offering ruderallis hybrids, why a seed bank would dilute an already messy gene pool with crap genetics just for the auto-flower trait is beyond me, the trade off doesnt seem worth it.

surly one day there will just be one uber-strain, with slight variation but all basicly the same

[CityBoyGoneCountry]

wow, I didn't expect you to do all that research for me. lol. Thanks. :)

The reason I want to know which strains are stable is because I want to take a stab at breeding myself. I think it would be awesome if I could produce my own seeds so that I don't have to keep spending so much money at the start of every grow.

In legal gardening, such as with tomatoes, it's very easy to find stable strains. They call them heirlooms. If you grow an heirloom tomato, the seeds it produces will grow true year after year. But I've never seen anyone refer to any strain of marijuana as an heirloom.

[babystarbud]

no problem, your post got me thinking so i was looking for my own satisfaction really, a bit of copy/paste is not much extra effort :)

would an heirloom be the same as the ofspring of two of the same f1's i wonder?

[CityBoyGoneCountry]

would an heirloom be the same as the ofspring of two of the same f1's i wonder?

I honestly have no idea. I've been growing plants for years, but I've never gotten that much involved in the breeding aspect of it. This is the first time I've even seriously considered trying it.

But here's what I mean by heirlooms. This website has over 1000 heirloom fruit, vegetable, and flower seeds.

http://www.heirloomseeds.com/

[babystarbud]

i mean, for arguments sake, assuming a male skunk#1 is f1,

bred with a f1 female skunk#1 would produce stable f1 skunk#1 offspring?

[babystarbud]

or would the ofspring be f2, which needs to be inbred 10x again
to produce f1?

[stinkyattic]

There's a IBL-line thread around here somewhere...
http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=80181
That's got a bunch of stabilized hybrids listed, and more recent strains that are true-breeding

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=80517 this one is about ancient landrace strains that are pure and true-breeding

http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=85788 this one is about F2s