Congress to hear on draft next year...

[Zimzum]

Taken from Foxnews.com Was released by the AP.



Rangel Calls for Reinstating Military Draft

Sunday , November 19, 2006




WASHINGTON â?? A senior House Democrat said Sunday he will introduce legislation to reinstate the military draft, asserting that current troop levels are insufficient to sustain possible challenges against Iran, North Korea and Iraq.

"There's no question in my mind that this president and this administration would never have invaded Iraq, especially on the flimsy evidence that was presented to the Congress, if indeed we had a draft and members of Congress and the administration thought that their kids from their communities would be placed in harm's way," said Rep. Charles Rangel, D-N.Y.

Rangel, a veteran of the Korean War who has unsuccessfully sponsored legislation on conscription in the past, said he will propose the measure early next year.

At a time when some lawmakers are urging the military to send more troops to Iraq, "I don't see how anyone can support the war and not support the draft," he said.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who is a colonel in the U.S. Air Force Standby Reserve, said he agreed that the U.S. does not have enough people in the military.

"I think we can do this with an all-voluntary service, all-voluntary Army, Air Force, Marine Corps and Navy. And if we can't, then we'll look for some other option," said Graham, who is assigned as a reserve judge to the Air Force Court of Criminal Appeals.

Rangel, incoming chairman of the tax-writing House Ways and Means Committee, said he worried the military was being strained by its overseas commitments.

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," Rangel said.

He said having a draft would not necessarily mean everyone called to duty would have to serve. Instead, "young people (would) commit themselves to a couple of years in service to this great republic, whether it's our seaports, our airports, in schools, in hospitals," with a promise of educational benefits at the end of service.

Graham said he believes the all-voluntary military "represents the country pretty well in terms of ethnic makeup, economic background."

Repeated polls have shown that about seven in 10 Americans oppose reinstatement of the draft and officials say they do not expect to restart conscription.

Outgoing Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told Congress in June 2005 that "there isn't a chance in the world that the draft will be brought back."

Yet the prospect of the long global fight against terrorism and the continuing U.S. commitment to stabilizing Iraq have kept the idea in the public's mind.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. An agency independent of the Defense Department, the Selective Service System trains, keeps an updated registry of men age 18-25 -- now about 16 million -- from which to supply untrained draftees that would supplement the professional all-volunteer armed forces.

Rangel and Graham appeared on "Face the Nation" on CBS.

[Dutch Pimp]

...the very last thing you want is draftee soldiers....trust me..I know...I was the leader of the pack....get drunk...smoke weed soldiers...You need professional soldiers...their heart is in it...trust me...

[Dutch Pimp]

...an American Foreign Legion...would be better...we can get use to other people doing our dirty work for us..for a price...

[Great Spirit]

Fuck the draft. I would never go off to war to fight.

Lets see how well this new "liberal" Congress will do. It's a big fucking joke. :thumbsup:

Republicrats!!!

[Dutch Pimp]

Fuck the draft. I would never go off to war to fight.

Lets see how well this new "liberal" Congress will do. It's a big fucking joke. :thumbsup:

Republicrats!!!

...yea..I said that too...in 1967...but when the country says.. go..I go..I am a loyal American citizen...

.."the needs of the many...outweigh the needs of the few"..

[Great Spirit]

...yea..I said that too...in 1967...but when the country says.. go..I go..I am a loyal American citizen...

.."the needs of the many...outweigh the needs of the few"..Sounds more like the blind leading the blind.

[Dutch Pimp]

..my weed must be wearing off...I don't have a smart come-back to that...

[Myth1184]

Hail ammuntion for america electing a republican for president. Thank you Mr Rangal...thank you

[Hamlet]

..my weed must be wearing off...I don't have a smart come-back to that...

You don't need one. Your country called...you disagreed, but you went. You've got big, bad coconutballs and don't need to defend your actions or your viewpoints. There's not one opinion here that even comes close to being more valid, or even on par with your opiniion about war.

[jamstigator]

The reason why the Democrats are sponsoring this is simple: they don't think it's fair that the families of the wealthy rarely end up in combat, and instead that burden is heaped onto the backs of the poor and middle class. With a draft, the wealthy aren't so well-insulated from doing the dirty work (that they're so good at making necessary in the first place).

So, all-in-all, I guess I'm in favor of registering for a draft, and if we really NEED more soldiers, okay...but don't let the wealthy slack off; they need to do their share too, and see what it's like for the common man. There'll be a lot fewer wars and conflicts if the rich folks' children are in danger too. It's just too easy to vote for war or use of military force when you know YOUR children won't be involved.

[thcbongman]

I'm against reinstating the military draft. This kind of protectionism is unnecessary. An all-volunteer force is more effective in a free society than a conscripted one. This isn't North Korea where people are brain-washed into believing it's necessary to serve and fight for their country and would be willing to sacrifice themselves. Didn't we learn that in Vietnam? The rich would find ways to get their kids avoid the draft anyway. The bill is going to be riddled with exemptions for that purpose. Why dilute the moral of the recruitment pool with people that don't believe in fighting a war? At least the ones fighting now knew what they were getting into.

It may help make politicians think twice before authorizing a war, but at the cost of a less effective military and punishing individuals and their families that don't want any part of the conflict. Instead, politicians and the military should restore the values they use to uphold that caused Americans to believe that fighting the right conflict is honorable.

[andruejaysin]

The guy introduced this bill before, and then voted against his own bill. Just a publicity stunt.

[Zimzum]

The guy introduced this bill before, and then voted against his own bill. Just a publicity stunt.

Maybe so but at the time I don't think N.Korria and Iran were really being looked at like they are today. And if we increase troops in Iraq and something goes down elseware that we send off another 150,000-/+ troops. Then you need more reserves to releave those who are fighting.

[andruejaysin]

The bare minimum to invade iran has been figured at 400,000. And as you said, they have to be rotated out, so over a million.

[VoidLivesOn]

The reason why the Democrats are sponsoring this is simple: they don't think it's fair that the families of the wealthy rarely end up in combat, and instead that burden is heaped onto the backs of the poor and middle class. With a draft, the wealthy aren't so well-insulated from doing the dirty work (that they're so good at making necessary in the first place).

So, all-in-all, I guess I'm in favor of registering for a draft, and if we really NEED more soldiers, okay...but don't let the wealthy slack off; they need to do their share too, and see what it's like for the common man. There'll be a lot fewer wars and conflicts if the rich folks' children are in danger too. It's just too easy to vote for war or use of military force when you know YOUR children won't be involved.

I agree with you totally. Actually...not totally but half-way. I only stop at half way because I'm one of those to-be 18 yr olds in America that agree with your "rich men need to be affected too whe it comes to proposing or declaring war" theory, but wouldn't necessarily like having his ass shot at over sea's either.

[Dutch Pimp]

I agree with you totally. Actually...not totally but half-way. I only stop at half way because I'm one of those to-be 18 yr olds in America that agree with your "rich men need to be affected too whe it comes to proposing or declaring war" theory, but wouldn't necessarily like having his ass shot at over sea's either.

...I wish ..I had a dollar..for every time...I've heard that..before....But...I haven't heard it since FEB 72..[Until now]..the last month of the REAL draft....no one drafted after that....the war had ended.


Thanks...Hamlet

[Breukelen advocaat]

One issue that nobody addresses, regrading the draft, is women. Shouldn't they be included if the draft is reinstated? Wouldn't it be discrimination to only take males?

In an "equal" society, women must be subject to the same laws as men.

I think that a "professional" military, rather than the draft, is a better system.

[VoidLivesOn]

One issue that nobody addresses, regrading the draft, is women. Shouldn't they be included if the draft is reinstated? Wouldn't it be discrimination to only take males?

In an "equal" society, women must be subject to the same laws as men.

I think that a "professional" military, rather than the draft, is a better system.

whats a professional military?

[Breukelen advocaat]

whats a professional military?

Volunteer, non-draft, etc. People that choose it as a career - preferably very capable enlistees.

http://www.military.com/militarycareers

[Bong30]

Fuck the draft. I would never go off to war to fight.

Lets see how well this new "liberal" Congress will do. It's a big fucking joke. :thumbsup:

Republicrats!!!

Back in 04 all the dems were saying...Bush will bring back the draft....



now its the dems talking Draft...LOL


So Gs you would never go fight for the USA. Really, i though you would have. Mybad....

[Great Spirit]

Back in 04 all the dems were saying...Bush will bring back the draft....



now its the dems talking Draft...LOL


So Gs you would never go fight for the USA. Really, i though you would have. Mybad....Not when your country creates the problems they want you to die for.

I don't know if anyone told you yet...but 9/11 was an inside job used to bring about a dictatorship. Same thing happened in Germany on Feb 27th 1933. Hmmm....why else would they legislate our rights away (Enabling Act....I mean Patriot Act) and take away habeas corpus (Military Commissions Act)???

Don't you find that kind of strange little Bong??? Hmmm? I do! ;)

But hey...we have to protect you and your family from the evil freedom hating Muslims somehow!! :thumbsup:

*cough CENTCOM cough*

[Dutch Pimp]

Sounds more like the blind leading the blind.

Great Spirit...if I was you...I would demand a refund..from my weed suppliers..

[darkside]

Back in 04 all the dems were saying...Bush will bring back the draft....



now its the dems talking Draft...LOL


So Gs you would never go fight for the USA. Really, i though you would have. Mybad....

Fuck Charlie Rangel, fuck the Dems and the Reps, this draft will never pass, and if it does it may just prove to be the perfect reason to move to the netherlands and enjoy one of the few truly free libertarian societies, instead of staying and fighting a special interest war so that halliburton can have a new country to plunder, all while politicians are eroding our freedoms and running the country into the ground.

[Bong30]

Fuck Charlie Rangel, fuck the Dems and the Reps, this draft will never pass, and if it does it may just prove to be the perfect reason to move to the netherlands and enjoy one of the few truly free libertarian societies, instead of staying and fighting a special interest war so that halliburton can have a new country to plunder, all while politicians are eroding our freedoms and running the country into the ground.

I little frustration DS? your dem boys giving you up?

why dont you comment on 04 dems- today dems and the draft


Back in 04 the were demonizing gdub...for the draft


Looks like they are the demons now....... hahahahahahahah:thumbsup:

DS sounds like GS.......


DS put you fingers in a big "L" shape on your forehead.....and say Im a LOOOOOOOOSSSSEEEERRRRR.

[jamstigator]

Nobody expects it to pass. It's a 'make a statement' kind of thing, basically. The Dems are just saying that in a perfect world, the children of the wealthy would share in the burden when conflict is deemed necessary, which would then make the wealthy a tad more reluctant to commit our forces. But everyone knows that isn't going to happen, however nice it might be.

What'd be interesting is if they reinstituted a draft JUST for the children of parents who have gross income above, say, a million dollars a year. In other words, if you and your family have dipped so deeply into the well of American prosperity, you ARE gonna get out there and fight for our way of life. We don't need a draft to encourage the poor to join the Army -- they don't have many options anyway. But the rich...they very rarely serve in our military. In four years of service, in a variety of places and conditions, some combat and some not, I never met a fellow soldier from a wealthy family. Not one, in four years.

[jamstigator]

Incidentally, a college-educated but reluctant son or daughter from a rich family might not be any worse than some poor 40-year old guy who barely has a high school diploma who joins the Army because his daughter is dying from leukemia and that's the only way he can get medical care for her.

There are LOTS of people in our military now who are there because their other alternatives were just plain worse. Is that what makes a professional soldier, someone who joins simply because the alternatives are unbearable? If that's true, then a draft would not affect that at all: you'd have people joining to stay out of prison, rather than to avoid becoming homeless or whatever. Basically the same thing: join or suffer. The only real difference with a draft is, the wealthy get the same choices as the poor.

[darkside]

I little frustration DS? your dem boys giving you up?

why dont you comment on 04 dems- today dems and the draft


Back in 04 the were demonizing gdub...for the draft


Looks like they are the demons now....... hahahahahahahah:thumbsup:

DS sounds like GS.......


DS put you fingers in a big "L" shape on your forehead.....and say Im a LOOOOOOOOSSSSEEEERRRRR.


Bong, i'm not a democrat, i'm a libertarian who disagrees with much of the democrat philosophy, but i side with the dems because of the extreme right wing neo con ideology that runs rampant through the republican party. also you seem to think that all the democrats are supporting this. rangel has been after this for a while, and almost no one supports him.
as for the loser comment, i take that as a compliment coming from a middle aged guy with a constipated looking cartoon superman as an avatar. :D

[Bong30]

Bong, i'm not a democrat, i'm a libertarian who disagrees with much of the democrat philosophy, but i side with the dems because of the extreme right wing neo con ideology that runs rampant through the republican party. also you seem to think that all the democrats are supporting this. rangel has been after this for a while, and almost no one supports him.
as for the loser comment, i take that as a compliment coming from a middle aged guy with a constipated looking cartoon superman as an avatar. :D

L......................7.......................... .......

LOOOOOOSSSSEEERRRRRRRRRRRRR

( i am making the L7 sign like the kid in Sandlot for you)


You dissagree with the dems cause they are socialist.....

Repubs are dems.......

OMG what is the world coming too........


Remeber DS.... people were in central Park in the 30s saying that Hitler was missunderstood..... you would have been there huh?

HItler isnt that bad....... he is missunderstood just Like saddam....."from DS"


DS stands for Dumb Shit, not Darkside...... LOL

Nice personal attack.....I am Mr.Incredible... dont forget it.

I am Middle aged cause i Lived to tell about it......you have no Idea, NONE.

[Zimzum]

This (http://www.obsessionthemovie.com/preorder.html) and the show glenn beck just did should show you what we are really up against. Scroll down on that link and look at the timetable. They fight us with a religious cause. We fight them with political correctness. Iran isn't someone who should have anything nuclear, period. Our troops might get boosted in Iraq. The origional suggested amount was something like 700,000. The new head of the marines want to increase there branch from 180,000 enlisted. The only problem with that is recruitment numbers are down due to Iraq. People aren't exactly lining up knowing where they might get sent off to.

[Hamlet]

The Draft...hhmm Well, I guess if you're going to go around attacking other countries you will eventually need one. Especially if the people in charge aren't smart enough to do only what is necessary as efficiently as possible.

A coworker of mine is half hispanic and the Marines keep calling him to try to get him to enlist. True to the Neo-Con form "Hey! Getting killed in Iraq sucks! Let's get a Mexican to to it!"

[Dutch Pimp]

One issue that nobody addresses, regrading the draft, is women. Shouldn't they be included if the draft is reinstated? Wouldn't it be discrimination to only take males?

In an "equal" society, women must be subject to the same laws as men.

I think that a "professional" military, rather than the draft, is a better system.

....let them start with handball first...they got hands..don't they?...then work their way up to something harder............it would be no disgrace...

[mrdevious]

The reason why the Democrats are sponsoring this is simple: they don't think it's fair that the families of the wealthy rarely end up in combat, and instead that burden is heaped onto the backs of the poor and middle class. With a draft, the wealthy aren't so well-insulated from doing the dirty work (that they're so good at making necessary in the first place).

I've heard this argument, but don't really buy it because:

1. The wealthy would usually have much bigger company obligations at home.

2. The poor are the ones with crap-pay jobs, no education, and often no hope of getting ahead. Why send rich kids who already have it made when poor kids could have the option of getting valuable training, something very impressive on a resume, and funding for education where they wouldn't have been able to afford it before? Not to mention being a soldier will get you in killer shape and teach a lot about teamwork and discipline (something most people need to learn even late in their life).
And yes I understand that being a soldier isn't some glamorous knight in shining armour endeavor with benefits, there's a very real and prevelant risk of death, or more commonly severe permanent injury. But rich or poor, a life is a life. If somebody is going to take on this risk it might as well be someone who has something to gain from it.

3. The poor aren't actually being "forced to carry the load" as that democrat put it, because that's the whole nature of the volunteer system; not being forced. Whether or not a larger number of poor fight in the military, all of them are there voluntarily, and making such a decision is a choice anybody should get to make depending on whether they believe in this crap war or not.


There'll be a lot fewer wars and conflicts if the rich folks' children are in danger too. It's just too easy to vote for war or use of military force when you know YOUR children won't be involved.

The poor-middle class make up 90% of the voters, the rich aren't exactly the key demographic targeted in most elections. It's the ease by which the public is manipulated with lies, twisted facts, and backward-logic-arguments that gets fanatically pro-war politicians in office.