Waterfarm hydro system?????

[Kronz]

Do u guys think this is a good beginner hydro setup? is it easy to use? please any info would be appreciated. thank you.

kronz

[BlueBear]

Easy and a all around good bucket that can give high yields and less head aches than many other systems. An excelent starter system and good for experienst growers as well.
1 tip if you get one, drill extra holes in the bottom of the top bucket so the roots don't get bunched up too much.
Adieu

[xcrispi]

i'm happy w/ mine ,
like blue bear said make all holes in bottom of top pot like 1/4 in. and i had to add an airstone to the res. to keep it from getting stinky fast but all in all they rock .
peace

[Weedhound]

Dang Bear, you sound like an advertisement. I like mine too--all in all a plus but here are the problems I have had. 1. All buckets really need to be checked seperately for ph etc daily. Thats 8 buckets to lift out every day.
2. very easy care at the beginning when the plants are small but as they get larger into flowering unless you have lots of extra ground tubing things are not easy to move around and change. I ended up putting little stop valve things on all my buckets to shut off water flow and change them (that's actually two stop valves for each bucket--have to stop water flow from both directions.) Very time consuming to empty and change, everything flows by gravity, the res is heavy etc. so draining the sytem takes quite a while but I speeded this up with a little aquarium pump that sucks the water from the main tube (not the res) very quickly. Please keep in mind that this is the only system I have used so I cannot say whether it is better or worse than others. All in all I do like it and it has grown me some kick ass weed. Others on this site with more brains and experience (like the two above) may have answers to the problems I have which I would love to hear myself. I would buy it again. The end.:)

[JackdaWack]

i was going to buy this, but i had some concerns, the exact ones weedhound just perfectly described. Personaly i think they should have incorperated a flood and drain into this so that there is a main res of all the water so u can test for tds and ph, also i was concerned with nute build up, if your nute levels are too high and your experiencing some burn, how can u flush them? like stated above u would need shut off valves and such, but it seems that u would have to dump out each one individually because u would over flow your main res.... seems like a pain in the ass yet advertised for easy use. I wouldnt think so.

[Racerx]

I think Deep Water Culture is the best beginner hydro setup. Having done flood and drain, ebb/flow, and dwc I definitely found dwc to be the easiest. Aside from changing res water every couple weeks, as long as there is a lot of air and controlled temps you can pull a lot in no time. I dont know what type of scale you want or if youve grown in soil before, but if your just trying to do a few plants there are selfcontained dwc systems that cost about $100 to build well. Changing the res is a bitch, but it only needs to be done every 2 weeks usually and you can easily setup a draincock on the bottom.

But if your trying to do a lot of plants, then DWC is a bad beginner setup because to do it efficiently is expensive (read recirculating dwc) and a lot can go wrong. Simplicity is key.

[Pay It Forward]

I'm on my second grow w/8 bucket farm and I love it. I don't use extra turn off valves, don't check ph in each bucket. I check ph twice a day from the res's.

After my first grow I changed to 2 new strains (White Russian &
C99/Apollo 11. I also changed the configeration of the system. GH provides 2 res's,a 5 gallon res. controller and a 10 gal. res. I use both, but separated them so one res controls 4 WH and one res. controls 4 C99/A11. I'm at 4th week in flower. Different strains like different nutes. WH likes nutes from 1500 - 1800 ppm, C99/A11 likes nutes 1200 - 1500 ppm.

Results: WOW!!! My best yield yet, and these are from seed (clones are in a different system.) I'll have a huge WH harvest, good C99/A11 harvest.

I change nutes every 6-7 days. I mix 8 gallons for each set up (ppm different). I add nutes to res, let it drain into buckets, after I've completed both set ups, I RAISE THE RES.'S 7 INCHES ONTO A SMALL BENCH I HAMMERED TOGETHER. This causes the remaining nutes to drain into the buckets (res is empty, 2 gallons of nutes per bucket).

To check ph, I place the res on the floor and let nutes run back into res. until nutes are divided into 5 (4 buckets + 1 res.). Now I check PH.

I also measure the original depth of new nutes(@7 inches) with res. on floor, then daily I measure the depth again w/res. on floor. This tells me if I need to add more.

I think this is the best way to use the waterfarm, and you don't waste nutes (unless you don't change nutes often), and it's easy to manage.

End of harvest I take everything apart & clean and sterilize, that's alot of work but well worth it.

I don't know why GH has two res's, but you can use them to your advantage.

Hope this helps.

Peace, PIF;)

[BlueBear]

I still stand behind what i said and I will explain a little. I was thinking that he wanted to buy a pre built system and for $50 and under the water farm is a still IMO and can produce some mid size trees. For DIY, bubble buckets are probably the easiest. With the 8 pack water farm I have noticed many people do modifications, but they would rather make the modifications than change to a new system. I do not really know of a premade system that is as cheep, durable and can really produce as much with as few complications as the water farm single bucket unit, not to say that there are no problems or nothing that compares, just not in my exp.
IMO with a 8 plant set up to grow 2 to 3 FT plants without too many complications would be a 3x3 or 4x4 ebb and flow table with a strain that has little side branching. In a 3x3 you can put about 9 fairly easy and harvest up to 3oz per plant with a good strain and a dialed in system and the table will only take up a 3x3 foot print where the water farm will take up an entire small room.
Well I like everyone's input and feel that everyone made good points.
Adieu

[Weedhound]

I will say I have not been able to control ph from the res--I have had problems with ph in INDIVIDUAL buckets only while the res ph remains at 5.9. during all my grows. The ph remains extremely stable for me during the veg stage so don't have to check as often but during flowering I check and adjust ph daily. That is 100% the biggest hassle of this system for me. I would LOVE to have a way to circulate water through the buckets continually instead of each filling and water just staying there. One other problem I have to deal with daily (during flowering only) is that the little drip rings get clogged very often and have to be rinsed out constantly. And yep, it grows some good sized plants.

[JackdaWack]

BlueBear ur dead on man. Ive been searching for an "improvement" or a new one, i posted picks on a diy i came up with in paint. I was thinking either doing that, getting the 8bucketfarm or a 3x3 ebb/flow table, i was thinkin i would get best grow and yeilds with the 3x3 table because of the fact it saturates roots and then when done pulls fresh oxygen everytime it feeds, and you only have one bucket of water to test ph/tds by easiest means. The 8bucketfarm and the ebb/flow table are both around 300, and the diy would just be time consuming paying no more then 50 bucks in rubbermaid containers and plumbing. Current setup, 2 12gal rubbermaids(around that size). and a drain to res., top feed, i get 4ft babes 6plant system. spent about 50 bucks, on a pump and containers netpots growrocks and tubing. Cant go wrong, These complex systems are $ and they seem to complicate things.

[JackdaWack]

I would like to do away with clogged drippers too weedhound. ONLY FLOWERING weird.

[BlueBear]

With your clogged drippers, are you using organic nutes? That may be the reason why if so. JW your right with the ebb and flow, only having to check and maintain one res is nice. Another thing that is an advantage over both DWC and the hydro farm is that in a eb and flow you don't need to worry so much about res temps especially like you do in DWC. The water is not around the roots long enough to cause root rot problems from sitting in warm water like in say DWC where temps are the biggest thorn in the side. But never the less res temps between 72 and 62 are ideal.
With a 3x3 ebb and flow you could actually put 18 in there if you wanted to do a SOG style or just a hand full of 2 1/2 footers.
I just read a thread on IC Mag where a fellow pulled 1 LB off a2x3 maybe table under a 400w with CO2 and that is breaking the 1G per Watt thinggy.
As for the PH problem in flower, perhaps you need to dial in your system a little more, but I don't know. If your plants are eating allot then you can have PH fluctuations, so stepping up their nutes may help, and if you are using organic nutes they may not have a PH buffer to help stabilize the PH, but again I am not sure.

Adieu

[Weedhound]

yeah seems to be a much bigger thing when the plants are older and larger and clogging up the drippers with bits of roots. Don't seem to have a problem with fert salts or anything........

[Weedhound]

Yes, have had ph problems in flowering every time. I don't use organic nutes--using the botanicare line but do have to add ph down daily...groan. No problems at all during growing...what I put it at it stays at but flowering is a different story. And yes, they do seem to eat like horses, more so in this cooler weather although they are indoors. Does this make sense?

[BlueBear]

Yes it does. I will give it some thought and try to give some opinions if I can. How often do you change the res and do you use any res/water clensers? What strain and what do you think your res temps stay around, also do your roots stay white threw out the grow?
How much of a jump do you have in your PH in a day, give me an example if you can, because some jumping is normal.
Adieu

[Weedhound]

Bear I started a new post regarding this so I could give this poor dude back his post....could you check it out when you have time? In the hydro section..I will go back and come up with the info you need. Would appreciate any and all info folks. Thanks

[rollone]

Waterfarms are great!
I've used these for years!
However my 2x4 ebbnflow gave the same results in less time. But then again your talking more plants.
Maybe about 3 years ago, I had a mom that was roughly alittle over a year old. 2 of them to be exact. I had to let one of them go due to space restrictions. well when the end came (harvest) I pulled just afew grams shy of 1lb. under a 1000w hps, hangin on a light mover that made it's way around to the otherside of the garden (where she was) every 15 min. Thats not to shaby at all!
The other side of the garden had roughly 20 smaller plants, and it's own 1000w, that gave me about the same in weight.
The strain used was white russain.
Of course with the proper care, and ebbnflow can hold a single large plant as well...with easy!
I still have an old megagarden that could perform like it came from the heavens :)

[Pay It Forward]

You won't have ph problems w/waterfarm if you follow my instructions on previous thread and you can use this for 4 or 8 buckets. the key is to raise the res 7 inches off floor so all nutes drain into buckets (no nutes in res) and to check ph, you lower res onto floor so nutes drain back to res, then check res ph. I also checked my system by checking the ph after lower res, and then I drained system and checked ph again, and it was the same.

That's not to say I don't adjust ph, because I do. I've learned to adjust ph below 5.7 and above 5.9, just alittle adjustment at a time.

Listen, these guys and gals are correct. You can build your own system for 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of waterfarm, that works as well or maybe better than a waterfarm. It just depends on you and your growing environment.

I just built 2 bucket bubblers for my 2 mothers (cheap to build), and I'm having great success with them.

Again, It just depends on you and your growing environment.

What ever you do, follow ZANDOR's advice:

"If you go cheap, you grow cheap"

Do it right the first time, otherwise you'll wish you did. I made that mistake.

Peace PIF:rasta:

[PigSnout]

I have that system. My setup is a pair of 1 reservoir/4 waterfarms. I use ~8 gallons of water in each setup. For each farm that puts the water level at ~4.5 inches and leaves about ~2.5 inches of air.

I have a pump in the res that sends water to each of the 4 farms thereby circulating the water. I added another of the same type of air pump and run 2 lines with airstones going to each res.

[Weedhound]

PIF, where is this water draining into from your individual buckets? Both my reses are full so I can't drain the water in the individual buckets anywhere unless I brought in another large bucket. Are you saying to drain the buckets back and forth daily? Hmmm. Might have something there except that I really don't have room for another large water bucket that holds 8 waterfarms worth. Now solve my clogged dripper problem.
Thanks

[Pay It Forward]

WH: I keep my res is empty and elevated 7 inches off floor, while buckets are full. To check ph I lower res to floor and let nutes drain back into res until buckets and res have same amount of nutes, then I check ph, adjust if needed, and add more nutes or water (if needed). Then I raise res again and let nutes drain back into buckets.

When I first got waterfarm, I too filled res w/nutes. I discovered I was wasting nutes because when I changed out nutes w/fresh (every 6 or 7 days) I was losing nutes already in res. that didn't get used.

When I change I use 2 gal per bucket (16 gal for 8 buckets). I mix nutes into 20 gal. rubbermaid, then pump (w/cheap pond pump) into res and let them drain into buckets, then raise buckets again 7 inches onto 7 inch high bench and let nutes left in res drain into buckets. That way I only make enough nutes for whats in buckets.

This system works great for me. Babies are green, very fruity and very healthy.

Sorry man, I don't have an answer for drip rings. I too have to clean every couple weeks. I use GH floranova w/enhancements. I never have severe clogging, but a couple holes in drip ring get plugged.

Peace, PIF

[Weedhound]

Do appreciate the input....never thought of doing it that way.....

[xcrispi]

i've had only a few probs. w/ farms so far , but i do forsee more in the future . my first complaint is roots actually grow up the white drip coloum and plug up the lil hard plastic airline that pressurizes the drip ring , thus no dripping . lol .
ph so far hasn't been an issue yet they all stay between 5.6-5.9 but i've found the ppm is different in all cells all the time . i haven't flowered in the farms yet , still just vegging . if all these probs. ppl. have do arise i'm gonna shitcan the drip function and buy the controller bucket from the multi flow sys. and make all 8 farms an ebb n flow sys. and use the w/f supplied pump and run airlines down the white coloum and put an airstone in the bottom of ea. cell . then i'll just have to ph / ppm the res. every now n then .
peace

[ace70568]

I have a couple of question's for Pay It Forward.

How often do you run your pump and do you use rockwool cube's or net cup's?

Because i think my rockwool is spiking my Ph even though i conditioned them.
Any grow tip's would be appreciated using waterfarm.

[xcrispi]

hey ace ,
i start my girls in 2in. sq. of rockwool pre soaked at proper ph then put em in hydroton once in cells . i water once for 15min. then off for 30min. while lights are on , then once for 15min. then off for an hour while lights are off .
peace

[Pay It Forward]

Hey Ace, I used to use rockwool, now I clone in Rapid Rooters (thank you Zandor), in coco fiber and transfer to buckets when they and I'm ready.

I run 15 min. on, 1.5 hr off 24/7 at least (it works for me).

PH is tricky, I usually have to adjust daily, sometimes twice daily. PH seems to stabilize around 5.6 - 5.9 about 3 days after nute change. I change nutes every 6 - 7 days, and add alittle after 3 -4 days.

I also use 5 in. round airstones in bottom of buckets.

Peace, PIF

[ace70568]

Do you add an extra air line per bucket and another pump Pay It Forward?
Also where do you get your air stone's?

[ace70568]

I forget to ask about coco fiber.Do you put rapid rooter's in coco fiber?

Thank's for advice Pay It Forward

[Pay It Forward]

I run a separate air pump for stones. I bought pump (100 gal. model) and stones at Pets Depot. Pump - $29.99, Stones - $4.99 ea.

Yup, after I cut and treat clones I place in Rapid rooters and into coco. I built my own cloner w/2 bus pans 4 & 6 in depths, w/small pond pump in bottom of 6 in w/nutes, bought 1/2 in. pvc to bring water to top, more pvc to build square (ring) w/holes and timer is set for 15 min every 6 hours.

Hope this helps

Peace, PIF

[ace70568]

Thank's for all your advice Pay It Forward,get back with you if i need any more help.

[ace70568]

Hey Pay It Forward,whay percentage od nute's do you use?
I've read alot of differant strength's but you are using the system i have.

I'm using advanced nutrient's so i don't want to waste nute's because
there sensi 2+ system cost's.

[Pay It Forward]

Hey Ace, I'm a GH fan. They're the leaders in hydro, so I didn't think I could go wrong. Now, I will say I played with other products and always screwed things up so I just started following the GH schedule and I'll have my best yield yet (5th grow).

I use GH Floranova series. I used the GH 3 part formula and didn't get as good results (Probably my fault because I played too much with different formulas of GH 3 part). Floranova is a no brainer. No more screwing around for me, I just need to have patience (that's my problem).

I also use GH enhancers: Florilicious grow & bloom, Diamond Nector, Kool Bloom and Florashield (every 4 weeks only as a rinse for 2 hours), Florakleen (end of grow) and I use H2O2 daily for O2.

I just follow the GH formula. Go to Floranova schedule:
http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/GH_catalog04.pdf
This is a pdf so I copied it to my desktop and use it every week.

I use 3/4 of the formula for each component. Full schedule brings my ppm too high (I use city water w/ppm of 350 already).

No mess, no fuss, no brainer, NO GUESSING!

Hope this helps.

Peace, PIF

[ace70568]

Thank's Pay It Forward.

So you really don't use a low percentage like i've read before.
I watched the Urban Grower on his site where he visit's medical marijuana
grow room's and they all used advanced nutrient's with the company's
nutrient calculator and they also went by what the calculator said.

800ppm week 1 and went up week to week till they reached a certain
ppm.The grower's were getting 2+ pound's per 1000 watt light.

They were getting bud's as big as a person's neck.You should check the urban
grower's sight out they show some hella bud's on there. http://www.urbangrower.com

My plant's are about 6-8 in tall with around 4 0r 5 node's and i have been using 400ppm but i am getting light patching on leave's (two tone)and dark vein's.I think my ph is fluctuating to much causing a little lockout.

I wish i could show picture's but i have no digital camera,you might have exerienced this before.

[Pay It Forward]

Hey Ace, Yes I do, I just follow the schedule from GH at 3/4 strength which lists different ppm according to where your grow is.

http://www.genhydro.com/genhydro_US/GH_catalog04.pdf

Your other issue sounds like a low nitrigen problem. I had the same problem last week, and I just added 2 oz per 5 gal. of nuted water of Alaskan Fish Emulsion (5-1-1) to for added nitrogen. Worked for me. Leaves turned darker, and plant took off. Stinky stuff!!!

Peace, PIF

[Pay It Forward]

Forgot to add, I believe Advanced Nutrients has good products. I'm just happy w/GH. If you're happy w/AN, stay w/it. Same results I think? Remember, large buds depends on so many variables (light, nutes, set up, temps, CO2, etc...).

Remember Zandor's advice: "If you go cheap, you grow cheap."
I'm a believer.

Peace, PIF

[ace70568]

Thank's again Pay It Forward.

[ace70568]

Any tip's on keepimg nutrient's cool because i here temp's 58 to 68 is a good temperature because cold water hold's more oxygen and stay's healthier(bad bacteria's)

My room temp is around 78 and my nute's are the same probably.
I checked once when my room was 84 degree's and my nute's was the same
i don't think that's good.

[Pay It Forward]

Too be honest, I've never taken my nutes temp. I just watch the grow and look for problems. I do use airstones in each bucket. Cabinet temp is 84 w/CO2. My babies are looking great!

I've read that's the reason not to trim fan leaves. Fan leaves help keep the plant cool.

They also say to freeze bottles of water and add to bucket to cool temp. Too much work for me and what happens if water gets too cold. You'd have to experiment w/o your babies to check this out before just adding to res.

You can drive yourself nuts trying to get the "Best". So so many variables. I just concentrate on keeping my babies looking healthy & happy, and they're going to reward me nicely. Sure I could maybe get little more w/better equipment, but I'm happy with what I get.

Peace, PIF

[ace70568]

Thank's again Pay It Forward.
Your right,it does sound like a head-ache.

[kully]

Heres an example of roots in a waterfarm, 1 with no air in the res , and 1 with a 4inch long Airstone in the resevoir , compare the first 2 pictures

http://www.gardenscure.com/420/hydroponics/93176-pimp-my-waterfarm.html

[BlueBear]

Hey, many just use the Advanced nute calculator for their GH 3 part as well. I read this long article that took place over a couple hundred grows and showed that the 3 parts both had like 99% of the same properties and what not.
Also, keeping your res under 70D is a good/great idea to avoid root rot issues. I will be honest though, I rarely check mine, but an aquarium thermometer is only a few bucks at Walli Mart.
Adieu