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Great Spirit
11-11-2006, 05:09 AM
Wow...I guess the saying that we must indoctrinate while young means more than it seems.
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http://www.infowars.com/articles/sept11/10_yr_old_disciplined_for_visiting_911_website.htm

Aaron Dykes / Jones Report | November 8, 2006

The fifth grade student who was recently disciplined for accessing 9/11 websites at school, such as Infowars.com , may now be forced to undergo psychiatric evaluation.

10 year-old Mark was not punished, the discipline report shows, for breaking school rules or being "off task," but rather because his principal says the webpages in his cache were "inappropriate."

Sites listed in the report include '9/11 Cover-Up', 'Alex Jones' Martial Law' and 'NY 9/11 Truth', among others.

According to the Steiner Ranch Elementary Student & Parent Handbook , students are restricted from accessing websites considered to be 'abusive, obscene, sexually oriented, threatening, harassing, damaging to another's reputation, or illegal'-- thus Infowars.com and other websites were not against school rules.

Instead, punishing "inappropriate" behavior is a subjective assault on the free speech of students like Mark. True free speech and any expression of alternate viewpoints is-- unofficially-- a threat to what schools have become.

According to Mark's father, he is being made "an example for not going along with the program."

While on Alex Jones' nationally-syndicated radio program today, Mark's father said the school approached him about a complete assessment of his son's psychological make-up.

After seeing some of the questions on the test, however, his father refused. "I'm not going to subject my son to this," he told Jones. "They are criminalizing normal behavior."

Mark's father says he was put on drugs when he was younger and it made him "a zombie." His mother realized the effects it was causing and took him off the medication-- for which Mark's father is grateful.

He admits that his son is not perfect, but thinks his son's punishment was out of line.

"He is curious; he's not a follower," said Mark's father. But he was "shocked" that Infowars.com was considered to be an 'inappropriate' website. "It's outrageous," he added.

Schools already set-up student computers with strict filters that block objectionable content. Why, then, was Assistant Principal Amy Moore shocked that a legitimate website like Infowars was not blocked by such filters?

Perhaps students are meant to be fearful that any website they visit could be randomly deemed 'inappropriate', regardless of its content.

Students are already enticed by the taboo concept of blocked content on the Internet-- and schools invite trouble by setting up open time for surfing the web, despite the protection offered by content filters.

Schools should be ready, then, to be flexible with what students might see in that setting.

Instead, they seem quite willing to build up an 'ad hoc' list of miscellaneous misdeeds students will not even recognize as 'misbehavior'. How, then, will such a student recognize the justification for his punishment?

Steiner Ranch Elementary student Mark was assigned to 'detention' during recess as punishment, after being sent to the principal's office and made to sit in the hall, all for looking up information on a '9/11 cover up.'

This is just an apt example in a nation-wide pattern wherein the Thought Police suppress student's thoughts, statements and politically incorrect views and demand simple obedience.

__________________________________________________

SEE ALSO:
10-Year Old Disciplined for Visiting 9/11 Website
Courageous youth stands up to accusation of viewing 'terrorist' information

Aaron Dykes & Alex Jones/ Jones Report | November 8, 2006

A fifth grader named 'Mark' reported to Alex Jones' Infowars TV show by phone that he had been sent home with a disciplinary report for visiting 9/11 Truth websites such as Infowars.com.

The 10 year-old Steiner Ranch Elementary student-- in Leander I.S.D. near Austin, Texas-- says that he was browsing such sites during his Computer Lab class period when a fellow student informed on him-- as though he were doing something wrong.

"He just ran up to my teacher in front of the whole class, saying 'he's searching terrorist stuff about 9/11'.

His teacher was "all shocked" and said, according to the student, "Mark, you shouldn't have been looking at conspiracy theory websites."

Alex Jones has confirmed the student's story

Mark said, "I was just searching the government websites which tell the truth-- which they think is a conspiracy-- and I get in trouble for it."

The student was sent to the Principal's office to face disciplinary measures. Steiner Ranch Elementary Assistant Principal Amy Moore was reportedly surprised that the school's IP filters hadn't blocked the sites.

"They should have," the Principal said to Mark while at the office.

He says that his principal checked the web history in his school web account, and was 'surprised.'

"I was going to websites that tell the truth about 9/11. She thought it was all a conspiracy; I confronted her," Mark said. "'No, it's all the truth,' you know. Bush-- and its not just him, a lot of other people-- and they're just trying to cover it up."

The assistant principal then told the 10 year-old, "Don't talk back to me" before sending him to sit in the hall and later back to class.

"He came home, and I couldn't really be mad at him," his father, who also spoke to Jones during the television program, admitted. "I just told him he should stay on task."

According to the Steiner Ranch Elementary Student & Parent Handbook , students are restricted from accessing websites considered to be abusive, obscene, sexually oriented, threatening, harassing, damaging to another's reputation, or illegal. It is also against the rules to 'attempt to circumvent content filtered according to the Child Internet Protection Act (CIPA).'

However, the school regulations call for no attempt to stifle political content, news media or public information on government activities-- which would violate American rights to free speech.

So, by that yardstick, this student did absolutely nothing wrong, yet was subjected to scolding and accused before his peers.

This is part of a chilling pattern, not only in regards to free speech, but in the inherit allowance to pursue alternative views and research information.

Has society exposed its guilty, underlying psyche at even the lowest levels when a principal cannot tolerate discussion of 9/11 Truth?

Our schools have built up walls that make prisons-- mindset of tyranny has fallen down into a hyper tense scene of paranoid suspicion. Its handbooks go on for paragraphs and pages, laying out definitions of criminal activities-- including specific weapons, instances of 'murder', 'gangs', 'sexual harassment', 'hit lists', 'Title 5 Felony Offenses' and even 'terroristic threats.'

A 'Terroristic Threat' is defined in the Leadner I.S.D. Elementary Handbook as:

Threats to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to: (1) cause a reaction by an official or volunteer agency organized to deal with emergencies; (2) place any person in fear of imminent serious
bodily injury; (3) prevent or interrupt the occupation or use of a building, room, place of assembly, place to which the public has access, place of employment or occupation, aircraft, automobile, or other form of conveyance, or other public place; (4) cause
impairment or interruption of public communications, public transportation, public water, gas, or power supply or other public service; (5) place the public or a substantial group of the public in fear of serious bodily injury; or (6) influence the conduct or
activities of a branch or agency of the federal government, the state, or a political subdivision of the state (including the District).

This school, and far too many others-- HAVE descended into a point where children ARE the criminals. A War-- like any war on drugs, terror, poverty, the mind-- has been twisted to be waged against those it presupposes to protect.

Mark's father mentioned this school has also approached him, recommending a psych test for behavior such as "running" and "making farting noises." Meanwhile, schools like Lee Middle School in Wyoming, Michigan conduct drills where police officers pointing guns at children's heads -- all without informing the students or school beforehand. "Some parents," the AP reported, "were upset."

"Some kids were so scared," said Marge Bradshw, the mother of one of the students, "they wet their pants."

There are even cases such as Jerseyville, Illinois where a teenager "carrying a bible" is shot twice-- and fatally-- by a police stun gun . This incident did not happen on campus, but still shows how the community regards its youth.

10-Year Old Disciplined for Visiting 9/11 Website
Courageous youth stands up to accusation of viewing 'terrorist' information

Jones Report | November 8, 2006
Aaron Dykes & Alex Jones

A fifth grader named 'Mark' reported to Alex Jones' Infowars TV show by phone that he had been sent home with a disciplinary report for visiting 9/11 Truth websites such as Infowars.com.

The 10 year-old Steiner Ranch Elementary student (in Leander I.S.D. near Austin, Texas) says that he was browsing such sites during his Computer Lab class period when a fellow student informed on him-- as though he were doing something wrong.

"He just ran up to my teacher in front of the whole class, saying he's searching terrorist stuff about 9/11," Mark told Jones.

Mark reports that his teacher was "shocked" and told him that he "shouldn't have been looking at conspiracy theory websites."

According to his statement to talk show host Jones, the young man certainly did not think he was doing anything objectionable or 'terrorism' related.

"I was just searching the government websites which tell the truth-- which they think is a conspiracy-- and I get in trouble for it," the fifth-grade student told Jones on his live TV show.

The student was sent to the Principal's office to face disciplinary measures. Steiner Ranch Elementary Assistant Principal Amy Moore was reportedly surprised that the school's IP filters hadn't blocked the sites.

He says that his principal checked the web history in his school web account, and was 'surprised.'

"I was going to websites that tell the truth about 9/11. She thought it was all a conspiracy; I confronted her," Mark said. "'No, it's all the truth,' you know. Bush-- and its not just him, a lot of other people-- and they're just trying to cover it up."

The assistant principal then chided the 10 year-old for "talking back" before sending him to sit in the hall and later back to class.

"He came home, and I couldn't really be mad at him," his father, who also spoke to Jones during the television program, admitted. "I just told him he should stay on task."

Though Mark did not violate any school rules, he was treated as though he had committed a fairly serious offense.

According to the Steiner Ranch Elementary Student & Parent Handbook, students are restricted from accessing websites considered to be abusive, obscene, sexually oriented, threatening, harassing, damaging to another's reputation, or illegal. It is also against the rules to 'attempt to circumvent content filtered according to the Child Internet Protection Act (CIPA).'

The handbook does not indicate that the school is inclined to restrict access to websites with political content, news sites or public information on government activities-- to do so would violate American rights to free speech.

So, by the schools own standards this student did absolutely nothing wrong, yet was subjected accusations of wrongdoing by his peers and to scolding by teachers and administrators.

Rather than treating Mark's natural curiosity about different ideas as a crime, his teacher should have taken even a brief moment to discuss with him the ideas he was interested in exploring. She turned an opportunity for Mark's personal growth into something he felt shame about.

Schools which ought to seek to enrich children and foster creative exploration of all kinds have become little more than training camps designed to imprison children's minds. We now live in a country that proclaims to value excellence in education but seems satisfied with schools that teach kids little else than how to dutifully accept the supression of their own creative tendencies.

With scores of standardized tests, lower actual standards, product advertising in textbooks, hastily diagnosed "Attention Deficit Disorders," and the forced medication of children, the goal of "education" seems now only to produce generations of adults who are trained to overconsume and live happily with tyranny.

Relevant Transcript:

Mark: Yeah, There was this discipline report I got at my school. I had looked, I had went on to your website and my principal, you know I just went onto Infowars and stuff about 9/11and my principal said, "I can't believe the filter didn't pick that up."

And they said it was inappropriate, and they were saying it was conspiracies. It was crazy.

AJ: Sure, what school was this in Austin, if you don't mind my asking?

Mark: Steiner Ranch.

AJ: A spy saw you do more details

Mark: A friend, well, not even a friend, somebody else in my class--

AJ: A fellow thought criminal, yes.

Mark: He walks up to my teacher, yelling, "He's looking at terrorist stuff."

AJ: Sigh* That's what I thought. And so, he said you were looking at terrorist stuff. As a member of the youth league, he denounced you to big brother. And then your teacher decided that it was serious enough to send you down to the Principal's office?

Mark: Yes.

AJ; And this was a good lesson for the rest of your class. What, were there 22 or so.

Mark: Just about.

AJ: And so they all got a lesson that you were visiting on the school computer-- something that said something about 9/11 and so it must be terrorist.

Mark: Yeah

AJ: And will you describe what happened at Steiner-- middle school did you say?

Mark: Elementary School; 5th grade

AJ: 10 years old? Tell me what happened? Go through it for us.

Mark: I was just searching the government website which tells the truth which they think is a conspiracy and I get in trouble for it.

Mark: He said-- he [the other student] just ran up to my teacher in front of the whole class: "He's searching terrorist stuff about 9/11, and this, that and the other." And the teacher was all shocked and said, "Mark, you shouldn't have been looking at conspiracy theory websites."

AJ: But that wasn't enough, she needed to report you.

Mark : she sent me down to the Principal's Office--Amy Moore-- She said, "I can't believe the filter didn't pick it up. It was supposed to." She was just surprised to see me going there. I confronted her with the truth and she said, "Hey don't talk back to me." cause she was just scared to -- know you-- face the truth.

AJ: So when you just said this was the truth, she said 'don't talk back.'

Mark: Yes

AJ: You talk back like that any time you want to. Weak minded people like that who think you've done something wrong when you talk about 9/11 being an inside job. You said it was a government site-- were you looking up something like Northwoods?

Mark: No, they wrote down a couple of them.

AJ: Oh, she said they were gonna lock those down?

Mark: No, they got these websites from going into my profile.

AJ: so they blocked some of them?

Mark: They got into my profile

AJ: They were looking at what you had visited. You have to be watched and-- I understand, it's part of the new freedom. What did you say to her when she said you were talking back?

Mark: I said I was going to websites that tell the truth about 9/11. She thought it was all a conspiracy; I confronted her: I said, 'No, it's all the truth,' you know. Bush-- and its not just him, a lot of other people-- and they're just trying to cover it up. She said, 'Don't talk back to me.'

AJ: Well, I'm very proud of you. You say your name's Mark?

Bong30
11-11-2006, 10:17 PM
makes sense... whats the problem? you need to start the deprograming early. They have been watching too much left wing commie media...alla CNN

Great Spirit
11-11-2006, 10:43 PM
makes sense... whats the problem? you need to start the deprograming early. They have been watching too much left wing commie media...alla CNNLol...even Santa Clause is a communist to you Bong. He wears all red and has gracious social programs! :D

pisshead
11-14-2006, 12:12 AM
yes, this is a free country, we can't allow people to even think of questioning the official story of any event...the government has never lied about anything ever...duh.

what we need to do is be conservative, give up our property rights, turn in our guns, not ask questions, and get permits for free speech zones.

i'm surprised all of this wasn't written into the constitution. oh wait, that makes me a commie right? to even mention the constitution?

we've never been at war with eastasia, we've always been at war with eastasia.

Wilken
11-14-2006, 12:20 AM
Thats hourse shit. The kid is in 5th grade. You can not trust anything he tells you. He doesn't deserve punishment. Besides, 9/11 happened 5 years ago. He probably wasn't old enough to understand it anyway. And what the hell was the class doing that was so boring he wanted to read about 9/11? I blame the teacher. Fucking bitch.

Wilken

mrdevious
11-14-2006, 10:59 PM
makes sense... whats the problem? you need to start the deprograming early. They have been watching too much left wing commie media...alla CNN

One could argue that there's just as much "programming" to be found in a culture that disallow's consideration of non-conservative viewpoints. I think infowars is greatly lacking in credibility, but I'm not going to declare someobody mentally defective for looking at two sides of an issue. In fact I don't think anybody has the right to say their views are objective if they refuse to even consider both sides of a debate.

BTW, it really makes you sound like a jackass when you declare anybody even slightly left of the far right a "commie".

Bong30
11-15-2006, 02:42 AM
One could argue that there's just as much "programming" to be found in a culture that disallow's consideration of non-conservative viewpoints. I think infowars is greatly lacking in credibility, but I'm not going to declare someobody mentally defective for looking at two sides of an issue. In fact I don't think anybody has the right to say their views are objective if they refuse to even consider both sides of a debate.

BTW, it really makes you sound like a jackass when you declare anybody even slightly left of the far right a "commie".

I have considered bolth sides....and then I USE MY BRAIN, and make a real decision, Not using just emotion......Bleeding Hart Liberal Ring a bell?


Slightly left...... Please...... Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Wolf Blitzer.... are commie fucking bitches...........

I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND.....POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS GOING TO KILL US.....SAY IT LIKE YOU SEE IT.

Left is socialist theses days.......

Republicans are democrats......

real republican Conservitives are hard to find.....

last Great One, was Ronald Regan.....

You dont have any Idea...yes you are Ignorant, about how left wing the teachers are in public schools....(ie ward churchill, and Jay Benish..use google)..... you need to DEPROGRAM YOUR KIDS>>>LIKE YOU.

you dont even know that you are brainwashed in school these days.....


do some looking in on the Teachers Union and come back with an educated response...not emotional bullshit.

Great Spirit
11-15-2006, 03:20 AM
yes, this is a free country, we can't allow people to even think of questioning the official story of any event...the government has never lied about anything ever...duh.

what we need to do is be conservative, give up our property rights, turn in our guns, not ask questions, and get permits for free speech zones.

i'm surprised all of this wasn't written into the constitution. oh wait, that makes me a commie right? to even mention the constitution?

we've never been at war with eastasia, we've always been at war with eastasia.What should happen is that the school itself should be investigated for harassment. It is a pure violation of the First Amendment to have this kid be questioned if he was looking at a 9/11 website. I look at infowars.com at school all the time. Lol they know better than to talk to me about 9/11 websites.

We recently had a showing of TerrorStorm at school.

And you know what..your right Piss! Freedom is dangerous! How dare we have liberal free thinkers in society! We must all be controlled! Well, not the ones controlling the world...they're free to rape, kill, and plunder. But us "normals" have to be obedient to our government and never question our rights! The holy wars in the Middle East are for OUR protection! They attacked us first!! May Jesus come back soon and judge them! Israel needs us!!! lol. :thumbsup:

God damn I sound like Bill 'Buttfuck' O' Reilly.

Great Spirit
11-15-2006, 03:23 AM
I have considered bolth sides....and then I USE MY BRAIN, and make a real decision, Not using just emotion......Bleeding Hart Liberal Ring a bell?


Slightly left...... Please...... Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Wolf Blitzer.... are commie fucking bitches...........

I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND.....POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS GOING TO KILL US.....SAY IT LIKE YOU SEE IT.

Left is socialist theses days.......

Republicans are democrats......

real republican Conservitives are hard to find.....

last Great One, was Ronald Regan.....

You dont have any Idea...yes you are Ignorant, about how left wing the teachers are in public schools....(ie ward churchill, and Jay Benish..use google)..... you need to DEPROGRAM YOUR KIDS>>>LIKE YOU.

you dont even know that you are brainwashed in school these days.....


do some looking in on the Teachers Union and come back with an educated response...not emotional bullshit.Only you would say that kids need to be indoctrinated with government propaganda early in life Bong.

Now the last time I checked....wouldn't that be a little...I don't know.....fascist? I think so! ;)

Bush......I mean Hitler did the same damn thing with the Hitler Youth.

Bong30
11-15-2006, 03:34 AM
Its OK to get left wing Propaganda but a balanced view? No...No Never right GS.

this is OK though im sure....

Jay Bennish is a social studies, American history and political geography teacher at Overland High School in Aurora, Colorado. He joined the faculty in 2000.

On February 1, 2006, student Sean Allen recorded one of Bennish's lectures on his iPod. Allen took his objections regarding Bennish's class to the media, and this developed into an international story.

Contents [hide]
1 The recorded class
2 Media reaction
3 Innaccuracies in the recorded lecture
4 Aftermath
5 See also
6 External links



[edit] The recorded class
After being prompted by students to talk about the State of the Union Address given by U.S. President George W. Bush the previous evening, Bennish suggested that Bush's tone was "eerily similar" to that of Adolf Hitler's speeches (in that both were very ethnocentric), and that capitalism was "at odds with human rights".

^^^^^sounds like YOU GS.....were you in his class????^^^^^^


Bennish also posed the question, "who is probably the single most violent nation on planet Earth?", concurring with a student's response "we [the United States] are". He encouraged students to consider how other nations might see the United States and its allies, suggesting that "to many Native Americans [the American] flag is no different from the Nazi flag," and that Palestinians see the Israelis as "the real terrorists". Speaking about the U.S. "war on drugs" in Colombia, he made a reductio ad absurdum argument suggesting that other countries might have reason to drop chemicals on U.S. tobacco fields "to destroy the tobacco plants that are killing millions and millions of people in their countries every year, and causing them billions of dollars in healthcare costs".

The recording ends with Bennish saying, "I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't know if I'm even necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think […] about these issues more in-depth, […] and not just to take things from the surface. I'm glad you asked all of your questions, 'cause they're all very good, legitimate questions, and hopefully that'll allow other people to think about those things, too."

GS you are a brain Washed Idiot....you dont even know it...Look up Useful Idiot, and get back to me........

Useful idiot
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Useful idiot (disambiguation).
In political jargon, the term "useful idiot" was used during the Cold War by anti-communists to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries (particularly in the United States) and the alleged attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that the person in question was naïve, foolish, or in willful denial, and that he or she was being cynically used by the Soviet Union, or another Communist state. The term is still in use and used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by political movement, terrorist group, or hostile government, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.

Great Spirit
11-15-2006, 03:56 AM
Its OK to get left wing Propaganda but a balanced view? No...No Never right GS.

this is OK though im sure....

Jay Bennish is a social studies, American history and political geography teacher at Overland High School in Aurora, Colorado. He joined the faculty in 2000.

On February 1, 2006, student Sean Allen recorded one of Bennish's lectures on his iPod. Allen took his objections regarding Bennish's class to the media, and this developed into an international story.

Contents [hide]
1 The recorded class
2 Media reaction
3 Innaccuracies in the recorded lecture
4 Aftermath
5 See also
6 External links



[edit] The recorded class
After being prompted by students to talk about the State of the Union Address given by U.S. President George W. Bush the previous evening, Bennish suggested that Bush's tone was "eerily similar" to that of Adolf Hitler's speeches (in that both were very ethnocentric), and that capitalism was "at odds with human rights".

^^^^^sounds like YOU GS.....were you in his class????^^^^^^


Bennish also posed the question, "who is probably the single most violent nation on planet Earth?", concurring with a student's response "we [the United States] are". He encouraged students to consider how other nations might see the United States and its allies, suggesting that "to many Native Americans [the American] flag is no different from the Nazi flag," and that Palestinians see the Israelis as "the real terrorists". Speaking about the U.S. "war on drugs" in Colombia, he made a reductio ad absurdum argument suggesting that other countries might have reason to drop chemicals on U.S. tobacco fields "to destroy the tobacco plants that are killing millions and millions of people in their countries every year, and causing them billions of dollars in healthcare costs".

The recording ends with Bennish saying, "I'm not in any way implying that you should agree with me. I don't know if I'm even necessarily taking a position. But what I'm trying to get you to do is to think [â?¦] about these issues more in-depth, [â?¦] and not just to take things from the surface. I'm glad you asked all of your questions, 'cause they're all very good, legitimate questions, and hopefully that'll allow other people to think about those things, too."

GS you are a brain Washed Idiot....you dont even know it...Look up Useful Idiot, and get back to me........

Useful idiot
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Useful idiot (disambiguation).
In political jargon, the term "useful idiot" was used during the Cold War by anti-communists to describe Soviet sympathizers in western countries (particularly in the United States) and the alleged attitude of the Soviet government towards them. The implication was that the person in question was naïve, foolish, or in willful denial, and that he or she was being cynically used by the Soviet Union, or another Communist state. The term is still in use and used more broadly to describe someone who is perceived to be manipulated by political movement, terrorist group, or hostile government, whether or not the group is Communist in nature.Brainwashed idiot......or intellectual terrorist? lol. Am I under investigation now because I said the T word? We'd better round up all those communists.....I mean 9/11 Truthers before they tell our imaginary enemies too much!

I am really surprised you Amerikans would fall for the same garbage the Reich put out decades ago. It's all the same with just some different people behind the scenes now. Don't end up as the 'good little Germans' did.

Wasn't it ironic that Amerika became the same evil it was sworn to protect us from?

mrdevious
11-15-2006, 08:56 PM
I have considered bolth sides....and then I USE MY BRAIN, and make a real decision, Not using just emotion......Bleeding Hart Liberal Ring a bell?

Maybe you've "considered" both sides, but obviously with incredible bias. Half the arguments I've seen you make here rely on already establishing your preconscieved notions as fact to make the whole of your argument. Just the fact that you think all liberal thinking is the result of solely "emotional" responses and not intellectual critiques tells me that you haven't truly weighed both arguments with impartiality.
Have you even studied the difference between Classical and Reform liberalism? If you want to complain about the bleeding heart liberals, then you're looking mostly at the extreme and modern end of Reform Liberalism.

If you really want to discuss semantics with terms like "bleeding heart liberals" to convey a blanket statement regarding all liberal thinkers, why don't we take a look at conservativism. You know, conservative, as in to conserve - Keep the same, avoid change, hinder progress (for better or worse), maintain the status quo. Political science defines conservativism as "A political ideology generally characterized by a belief in individualism and minimal government intervention in the economy and society; also a belief in the virtue of the status quo and general acceptance of traditional morality". The first section regarding views related to minimal government intervention and individualism is already a central theme in classical liberalism. The clear bias in support of maintaining established morality, plus societal and economic systems, is not exactly a modern phenomenon. No matter what we call them, we've had "conservatives" (those who want to maintain the status quo, or "common sense") and "Liberals" (intellectual reformists who seek change in society) since the dawn of human civilization. It was those filthy liberal thinkers, or "communists" as you like to call them, that are responsible for women getting the vote, the black civil rights movement, the legalization of birth control pills and condoms in 1969, the abolishment of slavery (yes, even Lincoln who was a Republican, was still implementing a liberal ideology), the establishment of social-support systems, the formation of accountable governments, the establishment of democracy itself, the separation of church and state, even the initial split from the catholic church, the legalization of homosexuality as a lifestyle..... I could go on and on with this. Your views toward liberalism (and anything non-conservative really) is incredibly ignorant, biased, and closed-minded from what I've read from you thus far. If all you can go on to establish your views are the worst extremes of liberalism, then you may as well establish an equally negative view toward any and every ideology out there.
And BTW, I voted for the Conservative party last election, I'm pretty impressed with their performance thus far.



Slightly left...... Please...... Nancy Pelosi, Howard Dean, Wolf Blitzer.... are commie fucking bitches...........

This reads with the intellectual and emotional maturity of a 12 year old.... though I thought you were against emotionally-driven ideology. Have you even actually read about communism and the base ideology under which it is formed, or do you just childishly call everybody a communist who varries in their ideological stance? Perhapse the certainty with which you deliver your convictions is enough "proof" of your validity in your mind.


I DONT CARE HOW I SOUND.....POLITICAL CORRECTNESS IS GOING TO KILL US.....SAY IT LIKE YOU SEE IT.

On the literary level, agreed. Though I doubt we're pervieving the concept of political correctness in the same manner.


Left is socialist theses days.......

Socialism is necessary to some degree, and exists within every govenrment, that ever existed, which had some degree of fairness.


Republicans are democrats......

or perhapse closer-to-modern conservatives.


real republican Conservitives are hard to find.....

last Great One, was Ronald Regan.....

Ah yes, the guy who stopped the legalization of weed and got the war on drugs back on its feet. I hear some of his economic policies failed miserably as well. But in some other ways, I agree that he was a good president.


You dont have any Idea...yes you are Ignorant, about how left wing the teachers are in public schools....(ie ward churchill, and Jay Benish..use google)..... you need to DEPROGRAM YOUR KIDS>>>LIKE YOU.

It's truly sad that you consider left-wing ideology brainwashing yet can't see the blatant programming that goes on in conservative society. Like puninishing your kids for considering something other than the conservative ideology, that right there is mental conditioning, clear-cut brainwashing.

And I also agree with you that teachers are horribly biased toward the left, particularily here in the Canada. My 8th grade english/social studies teacher would constantly propogandize us that the NDP (a very socialist party) was the picture of perfection. I argued with her tirelessly and even refused to answer some of the incredibly left-wing biased questions on the tests, or answered them by arguing that they're flawed in nature. I got kicked out (and failed) a couple times for that.



do some looking in on the Teachers Union and come back with an educated response...not emotional bullshit.

OH YOUR A NAZI RIGHT-WINGER WHOS KILLING THE RAINFORRESTS AND INNOCENCE WITHIN OUR CHILDREN. YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS YOU KNOW!!!

But seriously, and this will come as an astonishing claim to you I'm sure, the only thing I'm going to base ANY of my opinions on is intellectual reasoning. I don't give a shit about Liberals, Conservatives, any of the rabble. As you say, I "call it as I see it". My views definately lean towards that of classical liberalism, but only because a large portion of that ideology happened to correspond with the conclusions I came to. If you really believe you objectively form your opinions and logic, don't be so naive as to actually believe one extremist (or even moderate) ideology has all the answers.

BTW, if you actually do respond with an intellectual response, I'd be impressed and appreciative if you can actually quote and argue against each paragraph individually rather than issueing a blanket statement concluded with the accusation that i'm a communist.

Bong30
11-16-2006, 01:24 AM
Maybe you've "considered" both sides, but obviously with incredible bias. Half the arguments I've seen you make here rely on already establishing your preconscieved notions as fact to make the whole of your argument. Just the fact that you think all liberal thinking is the result of solely "emotional" responses and not intellectual critiques tells me that you haven't truly weighed both arguments with impartiality.
Have you even studied the difference between Classical and Reform liberalism? If you want to complain about the bleeding heart liberals, then you're looking mostly at the extreme and modern end of Reform Liberalism.

Yes cause those are the ones who are going to kill US...

If you really want to discuss semantics with terms like "bleeding heart liberals" to convey a blanket statement regarding all liberal thinkers, why don't we take a look at conservativism. You know, conservative, as in to conserve - Keep the same, avoid change, hinder progress (for better or worse), maintain the status quo. Political science defines conservativism as
VVVVVVVVI can use Google thanksVVVV
"A political ideology generally characterized by a belief in individualism and minimal government intervention in the economy and society; also a belief in the virtue of the status quo and general acceptance of traditional morality". The first section regarding views related to minimal government intervention and individualism is already a central theme in classical liberalism. The clear bias in support of maintaining established morality, plus societal and economic systems, is not exactly a modern phenomenon. No matter what we call them, we've had "conservatives" (those who want to maintain the status quo, or "common sense") and "Liberals" (intellectual reformists who seek change in society) since the dawn of human civilization. It was those filthy liberal thinkers, or "communists" as you like to call them, that are responsible for women getting the vote, the black civil rights movement, the legalization of birth control pills and condoms in 1969, the abolishment of slavery (yes, even Lincoln who was a Republican, was still implementing a liberal ideology), the establishment of social-support systems, the formation of accountable governments, the establishment of democracy itself, the separation of church and state, even the initial split from the catholic church, the legalization of homosexuality as a lifestyle..... I could go on and on with this. Your views toward liberalism (and anything non-conservative really) is incredibly ignorant, biased, and closed-minded from what I've read from you thus far. If all you can go on to establish your views are the worst extremes of liberalism, then you may as well establish an equally negative view toward any and every ideology out there.
And BTW, I voted for the Conservative party last election, I'm pretty impressed with their performance thus far.

You Voted Conservative cause they are Liberal.... the republicans TODAY are a Joke that is why you like them....


This reads with the intellectual and emotional maturity of a 12 year old.... though I thought you were against emotionally-driven ideology. Have you even actually read about communism and the base ideology under which it is formed, or do you just childishly call everybody a communist who varries in their ideological stance? Perhapse the certainty with which you deliver your convictions is enough "proof" of your validity in your mind.

I have emotion when it comes to people hating the country my family has given so much for...SUE ME

On the literary level, agreed. Though I doubt we're pervieving the concept of political correctness in the same manner.

I RULE.....

Socialism is necessary to some degree, and exists within every govenrment, that ever existed, which had some degree of fairness.

Wrong....Social Programs must exist...not socialism......look at the soviet union....tell me what a profit motive is....tell me about the 5 year plan....no no 10 year plan......(remember MR conservitive...small goverment)


or perhapse closer-to-modern conservatives.

????????? Like george Bush...He is Bigger spending, bigger goverment.....thats not conservative...HUH?

Ah yes, the guy who stopped the legalization of weed and got the war on drugs back on its feet. I hear some of his economic policies failed miserably as well. But in some other ways, I agree that he was a good president.

Was I talking about the war on drugs.....(fucking dumb of course)


It's truly sad that you consider left-wing ideology brainwashing yet can't see the blatant programming that goes on in conservative society. Like puninishing your kids for considering something other than the conservative ideology, that right there is mental conditioning, clear-cut brainwashing.

Did you read the BULLSHIT from Jaybennish? He is a fucking commie bitch....... here in colorado great.

And I also agree with you that teachers are horribly biased toward the left, particularily here in the Canada. My 8th grade english/social studies teacher would constantly propogandize us that the NDP (a very socialist party) was the picture of perfection. I argued with her tirelessly and even refused to answer some of the incredibly left-wing biased questions on the tests, or answered them by arguing that they're flawed in nature. I got kicked out (and failed) a couple times for that.

^^^^^ REST MT CASE THANKS FOR MAKING IT FOR ME^^^^^^



OH YOUR A NAZI RIGHT-WINGER WHOS KILLING THE RAINFORRESTS AND INNOCENCE WITHIN OUR CHILDREN. YOU CAN'T HUG YOUR CHILDREN WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS YOU KNOW!!!

YOU CANT HUG YOUR CHILDEREN IF YOU ARE DEAD....dDUUHHHHHHHHHH


But seriously, and this will come as an astonishing claim to you I'm sure, the only thing I'm going to base ANY of my opinions on is intellectual reasoning. I don't give a shit about Liberals, Conservatives, any of the rabble. As you say, I "call it as I see it". My views definately lean towards that of classical liberalism, but only because a large portion of that ideology happened to correspond with the conclusions I came to. If you really believe you objectively form your opinions and logic, don't be so naive as to actually believe one extremist (or even moderate) ideology has all the answers.

Blah Blah Blah......

BTW, if you actually do respond with an intellectual response, I'd be impressed and appreciative if you can actually quote and argue against each paragraph individually rather than issueing a blanket statement concluded with the accusation that i'm a communist.

I couldnt give a Fuck what you think of me........


Remember Liberalism Is a mental disorder.......



How was that.....?

darkside
11-16-2006, 02:32 AM
bong your ignorance and singlemindedness never ceases to amaze me. you believe that anything that challenges the official story is "left wing propaganda" and anybody who challenges your one sided neo-con views is a communist. im sure if you had your way we would build concentration camps to hold people who disagree with you. sieg heil bong30

Bong30
11-16-2006, 03:23 AM
If it were up to me...people that hate america would not have to die, just leave.... seams easy.. just go some place you like.

Those people....are a cancer, and cancer spreads......


we built concentration camps for the Japanese people.......now they are a great ally.....???? hummmmmm?????

If you want an Omlet, you got to break some eggs...........




Darkside.....IM done. Over.....with all the bullshit....


darkside will be looking at Mushroom clouds over New york saying YES YES allah is great

darkside
11-16-2006, 03:51 AM
you proved my point yet again.

Bong30
11-16-2006, 04:03 AM
Thanks....


I have proven my point, so well....so many times.

Did you watch the show on CNN tonite?

suhl
11-16-2006, 04:13 AM
i love how people, people like bong, who assume the people that arent them are always wrong, well, they always think that everyone else is just blindly following an agenda and that the only ones who arent are him and the ones who agree with him.

i dont really care about the 9-11 conspiracy, i dont think the government did it but do think there was more to it than we were told. but christ the kid doesnt need to undergo psychiatric evaluation for it. let me give him a free one right here, he saw his older brother or some other older kid looking at it.


nor do i think that cnn brainwashed the kid. thats ridiculous.
i really dont think my views are really relevant to the point im trying to make what i am trying to say is it is really fucking annoying no matter what your opinions are to have some guy who hasnt heard you out say well keep listening to the liberal propaganda then or keep listening to those conservative lies. yes, people who disagree with you arent slaves following a party. well let me rephrase that a lot of them are, but there are the same amount on both sides of any issue.

if you are saying we should put muslims in concentration camps you need to get a clue. we also dropped an atomic bomb on japan that probably swayed their decision a little more than us putting american citizens in camps. i guess ill just stop here, because arguments like this will go nowhere, any point i make will be chalked up to liberal propaganda or some such shit. all i can say is pull your head out of your ass the air is nice out here m boy

mrdevious
11-16-2006, 06:58 AM
How was that.....?

incredibly pathetic. I actually expected you to reply with an intellectual response, and instead you missed 90% of my points and showed once again how you can bias yourself so strongly towards an opinion that you can't even understand or percieve it. I can see you're too trapped in your own self-inflictued illusionary perception to even offer a glint of hope towards intelligent discussion. These are the last few moments I'll be wasting trying to make you fire a few neglected neurons.

Bong30
11-16-2006, 03:26 PM
incredibly pathetic. I actually expected you to reply with an intellectual response, and instead you missed 90% of my points and showed once again how you can bias yourself so strongly towards an opinion that you can't even understand or percieve it. I can see you're too trapped in your own self-inflictued illusionary perception to even offer a glint of hope towards intelligent discussion. These are the last few moments I'll be wasting trying to make you fire a few neglected neurons.

I would rather be my kind of smart, than your kind of STUPID.

mrdevious
11-16-2006, 05:39 PM
I would rather be my kind of smart, than your kind of STUPID.

LOL, touche Bong30, touche. Allow me to issue a witty comeback on the same level.


I know you are but what am I!?

Great Spirit
11-16-2006, 07:06 PM
LOL, touche Bong30, touche. Allow me to issue a witty comeback on the same level.


I know you are but what am I!?Don't worry about Bong. He's just a little bitch who thinks Muslims are out to kill him. I would be more worried about your own Amerikan government trying to kill you, than any Muslims.

Of course I know Bong more than any of you do :thumbsup: I'm watching you too buddy!

Bong30
11-16-2006, 11:19 PM
LOL, touche Bong30, touche. Allow me to issue a witty comeback on the same level.


I know you are but what am I!?

OK smart Guy,,,,, tell about Profit motive, and how it relates to comunism?


you seamed to miss it?????? hummmm????

Mr d. you are better at typing and putting you thoughts on paper than I am. Good Job. You just miss the big picture of what we are dealing with. So go ahead and attack my writing style, but you dont argue the points. Why? Huuummmm????


Did you watch the show last night?

mrdevious
11-17-2006, 01:58 AM
OK smart Guy,,,,, tell about Profit motive, and how it relates to comunism?

By profit motive I assume you're (most likely) talking about the lack of motivation to get ahead or produce more in a communist society, and if that's the case I happen to agree. I'm by no means a proponent of communism, I was criticizing you're accusations towards everybody that they're communists.



Mr d. you are better at typing and putting you thoughts on paper than I am. Good Job.

Petty name-calling isn't the result of literary skill, it's just a choice.


You just miss the big picture of what we are dealing with.

The big picture? You haven't even heard 1% of my societal, philosophical, and political theories and opinions. All I can say is that I try to look at every side of a debate and see the crap, and the gold, found in each outlook. I don't see how you can claim to do the same when you ruthlessly attack and condemn every single philosophy that isn't yours to the fullest and most extreme extent, without the slightest consideration of the attributes of an opponents argument.


So go ahead and attack my writing style, but you dont argue the points. Why? Huuummmm????

Good christ man, did you not read anything I previously posted? I have a huge-ass post up there with about 20 points argued and you replied to over half of them with something around the lines of "yeah commie bitch, you're a retard", and the other half with vague blanket statements that only addressed maybe 1 out of 6 points made in each paragraph you responded to.



Did you watch the show last night?

No, I'm not particularily concerned with Glen Beck. i watched his show consistently for a while but he got really tiring. Sometimes he's dead-on correct, sometimes he makes idiotic leaps of logic, but it got pretty easy to predict what would be talked about in the Glenn Beck's Personalized Propoganda Hour.


Honestly Bong30, I don't care what you believe. Go right ahead and have your ideology and be certain beyond a doubt that you're right. I don't hate conservatives for being conservatives, just like I don't hate theists for being theists (I'm an atheist). What gets on my nerves is when you talk to people like they're worthless pieces of shit for having another opinion; ie "YOU FUCKING COMMIE BITCHES ARE THE ENEMY WITHIN, YOU SHOULD BE ROUNDED UP AND SHOT OR IMPRISONED!". The extreme levels of hate aren't necessary. I disagree with a lot of people on some pretty important issues but I don't hold an extremist hatred for them, I just think they're misguided and utilizing logical interpretation skills incorrectly.

Right or wrong ,nobody chose to be a liberal because they thought it would destroy the nation.

Just consider it.

I'm out, have a good one.