Join The First Church of Moderism

[fikusroot]

(this is adapted for an essay I wrote tonight for Philosophy. We were supposed to create a religion.)

I am creating a religion. A very exclusive religion reserved only for the non-fanatical and intelligent. I will call it Moderism. The details are as follows.
Moderists believe that all life is interconnected and is significant BECAUSE it is part of a whole. This is called The Web of Life. A brilliant law of life that governs the way the entire universe functions. But The Law of Life is simply an idea, a long mathmatical equation if you will. At one point, there was a force that put this large machine into motion, and thus life and everything as we know it began. Our planet formed. At one point we evolved to the point where we could begin to wrap our minds around this whole concept of life, how it was formed, what keeps it going. There have been many specualtions, convenient metaphors, etc. etc., but the reality is that we cannot completely wrap our minds around the actual physical workings of this great machine were in because we ourselves are in it.
If you can wrap your mind around that, then you are one step closer to recieving enlightenment and very smart. Smart enough to join my church.

Moderists confess that they have no clue what is going on. They believe that by taking things one way at a time and by being informed, they can find a way to better society, which is really the whole point of their existance, to figure out what they can do to progress society forward.

Moderists do not rely on Gods or other convenient metaphors for things which they know we can't understand. Moderists are strong enough and smart enough to realize that these metaphors are just that, metaphors, and overreliance on them for guidance is not being educated and not being educated does not empower you to help society.

Moderists believe that when they die, they will be truly enlightened and then be forced to spend eternity reflecting on what they did during the pecular stage in their life when they were "alive." Those who made the most out of their life's experience will have an infinately more rewarding time reflecting on it.

Moderism is scary and not for most. People have a natural urge to want to believe that they can pray to a convenient god, but Moderists know that praying to Gods and idols is a deviation from the truth. It does not completely deny the presence of the supernatural because that places to much faith in the man made instituion of science. It is agnosticism with rules for which one must live their life by. Universal standards of morality. Don't kill, love thy neighbor, don't steal. But it leaves room for things which man has deemed immoral for no logical reason. For example, premarital sex with a girlfriend is ok. One night stands are not. Contraceptives are permitted as the act of sex between people who love each other does not have to be for making babies. Moderate use of mild drugs is acceptable (i.e. cannabis twice a week) and phsychadelics may be used ON OCCASION AND FOR SPIRITUAL ENLIGHTENMENT ONLY (i.e. taking acid once or twice a year). Heroin, coke and alcohol (although 1-2 drinks a day are acceptable because studies have shown it is good for your health) are not permitted as they do nothing but kill your body and destroy your life. Homosexuality is permited. Polygamy is not. Abortion is allowed in certain cases i.e. rape. The death penelty is wrong unless the person in question does not repent or feel remource. In that case, they are just psycho and could do nothing but hinder the progression of society.

Moderists will not stand on street corners and yell and thump bibles. They will learn to recognize intelligent and open minded people and inform them of this great new way of thinking. If everyone were intelligent and rational enough to follow this religion where would be world peace and no corruption etc. etc. So if you think you have what it takes then join my army of moderists and DONT BE AN IDIOT.

[Pass That Shit]

If you attempt to build a church on another foundation then that which has been laid, you'll be preaching a false gospel just like every other religion. Religion is man made. It's the blind leading the blind. So I'm sure all your members will be wearing sunglasses. :smokin:

Jesus is the rock of the foundation of Christianity. It can't be moved.

[JunkYard]

What a project, man...

I would have loved to make up a religion as an assignment for school. (Lucky Bastard)

I could never be a moderist myself, but I liked the 'general' idea behind it.


DON'T BE AN IDIOT <---- That made me laugh

:smokin:

[fikusroot]

I wasnt talking to you PTS. This is an exclusive religion for those strong enough to handle life without a concrete God. I'm not going to try to convert you as it would go against my own preachings.

[fikusroot]

Yeah, I like my religion teacher. She is the most blatant and stereotypical ex-hippie I've ever seen and we kind of team up a lot in class druing debates against my predominately rich white republican christian classmates. That's why I've got such a high grade in the class :)

[JunkYard]

I doubt that, man...

You enjoy talking religion; I can see it, and I've only read a few of your posts. That is why you get the good grades. You know what you believe, yes? And, you can wade through the BS w/o getting dirty.

:thumbsup:

[fikusroot]

Thanks. Everybody loves compliments. So thank you. And, Pass That Shit, I'm sorry if I seem short with you. Youre passionate about something so props for that. Just dont get out of line, eh?

[wayoftheleaf]

That is a very interesting idea. I think i would enjoy being a member of that religion lol. But at the same time, living for an eternity would cause you to go insane. There is no way around it that i can see. Reflecting on your life's action for all eternity seems like an interesting idea.

[fikusroot]

Yes but you'd be reflecting having gained complete knowledge of ecerything. Kind of like sitting comfortably on a couch watching home movies. Lot's of "O god I cant believe I wore that" type moments and lots of times that you just want to rewind and watch again. The question is, do you want to be watching a good movie or a crappy one?

[wayoftheleaf]

I believe that so many [hypothetical] things can cause insanity. I believe anyone who has gained complete and utter understanding will go insane from it. I don't believe that we, as mortals, can comprehend either eternity or complete understanding. Whether or not there is someone or something that is immortal is irrelevent. I think if there is such a thing as a God by creating us he must be a very sadistic being.

[fikusroot]

I'm talking about when you die. you cant go insane when you die because you dont have a brain. When we die, it's kind of like we become little Gods. We cannot understand as mortals, thus we become God like to gain understanding. It is this experience where all of our human preconceptions about life and reality are shattered and we become totally imersed in the truth. We are no longer ourselves, we do not have our personality because nobody's personality is perfect. Instead, we transend and in that trancendence is a joy and happiness that extends beyond our primitave notions of joy and happiness that come from interactions of chemicals in the brain. It's hard to understand and even I can really only get my mind around it if I'm on acid.

[JunkYard]

We are conscious beings, but is this only because we have a brain? I think the universe is a conscious universe. Hell, even cells seem to have a conscious existence.

Maybe the brain = ego, and it simply distorts our pure conscious state.

Just a thought...

[wayoftheleaf]

Ah yes fikus but at the same time the human consious cannot grasp what you are saying for we have not yet transcended into this state. Therefore it is impossible to determine The true effects of what would, or could, be possible in this new, altered state of reality. Who is to say that the actual point that we transcend into this persona of near, or exact godliness that we ourselves do not become insane allowing us to see and comprehend?

[Lucifuge]

^^That fat kid in your avatar looks retarded

[Lucifuge]

As does your FACE!!1!!!111! bwahahaha

Seriously.

[Inferius]

Lucifuge, you do realize that IS wayoftheleaf don't you?

I liked the church idea until you started listing standard morals.

Now, about the after-life... wayoftheleaf was making sense... With our perceptions as of now we can't comprehend the actual transcendence. It can only be speculation. And as god-like beings, we wouldn't really exist "in" time. Infinity would be more of a relative idea, and this is where things get reallllly hazy. Time is such a key concept in our perception, to remove it is mind-shattering. Think about it. There is no then or now or later. It is simply "all".

I dunno... I think everything after the act of transcendence is incomprehensible, and any speculation, although fun, is completely irrelevant to the reality.
I would like to continue a conversation like this after attaining enlightenment through meditation, and while on acid... I think that's the only way for us to REALLY reach that next level of understanding.

[wayoftheleaf]

i personally think that insanity is obtained through grasping the concept of something we just simply cannot understand. The human mind CAN NOT grasp eternity, this is impossible for us to do. we can say that there has always been planets, but whenever i say that i am thinking in my head but what in the hell started it. How could something be here forever doesnt everything have a begining? unless you believe ina circular age theory which i guess could happen. but even that doesnt fully explain what began the universe.

[harris7]

If you attempt to build a church on another foundation then that which has been laid, you'll be preaching a false gospel just like every other religion.

Religion is man made. It's the blind leading the blind. So I'm sure all your members will be wearing sunglasses. :smokin:

Jesus is the rock of the foundation of Christianity. It can't be moved.

saying religion is man made is only a criticism if the religion claims otherwise. As christainity does. As well i am surprized to hear you say that all religious preach false gospels.
hmmm:pimp:

[JunkYard]

Ah yes fikus but at the same time the human consious cannot grasp what you are saying for we have not yet transcended into this state. Therefore it is impossible to determine The true effects of what would, or could, be possible in this new, altered state of reality. Who is to say that the actual point that we transcend into this persona of near, or exact godliness that we ourselves do not become insane allowing us to see and comprehend?

Define insanity...

:smokin:

[wayoftheleaf]

insanity, i believe, is the seperation of the physical and metaphysical consciousness. This allow the person to grasp the concepts that the person could not before grasp. At the same time this level ofg understanding makes it near impossible to follow the reality that we live in to your fullest extent.

[JunkYard]

Sounds like a good thing...

Define reality, though.

[wayoftheleaf]

Lol just so you know, i spend my free time and the time i can't sleep( i have sleep apneia) considering things that have no true answer.

Reality isn't truly definable.
It can be the physical world that you perceive through your senses.


I believe that is the closest definition i can think of. I also think that we could be figments of God's imagination. I have entertained that idea for quite some time. It seems to make sense. Jesus was God in the flesh. So that means God didn't have a physical persona IN THIS REALITY. However if we are the figments of God's imagination that means that he is in a different reality than we our.
I think that just maybe, god could be someone who has gone insane or is autistic. This would explain how he is able to create and mould this world to his desires. I don't think that any person with a normal mind set would be able to come up with even a millionth of this universe. I know that i couldn't.

[JunkYard]

lol! You have quite a mind, leaf!

I wonder what our conscious state would be like w/o a brain, and senses to comprehend reality?

Reality is purely subjective, and dependent upon our perceptions, via our senses. Would we even have a reality w/o a brain, or would we simply be?

I guess we'll have to wait to find out...

:smokin:

[wayoftheleaf]

Hmm that is a very insightful question. I have not ever thought about that. Well lets give it a while.

The brain is controlled by the conscious, which is under your control. yet the conscious is controlled by the the subconscious which we have no control over-to an extent. The subconscious is theorized to be controlled by the subconscious's own subconscious which opens up a whole new path of ideas of psychology. One would assume that the conscious is a part of the brain and the conscious attached to the subconcious ect. But we all know what assuming does. it just makes an ass out of u and me.

[JunkYard]

Assumption is a fickle thing, but it's fun to ponder such questions. I try to keep an open mind to the many possibilities...

[wayoftheleaf]

We are all born with a little bit of insanity, try not to lose it!

lol i love that quote always makes me laugh.

But anyway i love contimplating the unknown. Last year I created a whole series of charts explaining different possabilities of the space time flux.

I believe that it is called the butterfly effect, when i was eleven i worked it all out by myself and wanted to get it patented. only to find out i was late by a long time lol. I still love that theory. I called it the ripple effect which i later found out was one of its other names. How everything we do completly alters the future of the world.

[JunkYard]

Every action has an effect on the future, and that amazes me. Even some of the most insignifficant things we do can alter the future in a big way. Hell, us sitting here talking on-line will probably have some kind of effect on it. The thing is, we could never predict what. :)

[wayoftheleaf]

exactly. Us talking will cause deaths in the world, and births and miracles.. The only question is if we are causing more deaths than births and miracls.

I am very stoned right now i can't think about this to easily now.

[JunkYard]

exactly. Us talking will cause deaths in the world, and births and miracles.. The only question is if we are causing more deaths than births and miracls.

I am very stoned right now i can't think about this to easily now.

I can't imagine how it would cause death, or miricles, or births, but I can see where it could alter the future a bit. The very fact that we are here, and not somewhere else, doing something else, makes a difference...if only a slight one.

[wayoftheleaf]

by doing this we are doing something other than what we would have, causing our mind to think about something different so we do something different eventually causing other people to do something other than they would and so on and so forth.

[JunkYard]

Exactly, but why would it cause death, or birth, or miracle? I see no connection...

[wayoftheleaf]

I was just using that as an example. It could stand for anything that could or will happen. as in by us talking here it is going to ripple the effect across the other forever changing the future. After a long enough while the effect is going to be so large and spreadout it will change more things it will dictate a change that makes a different sparm enter into the egg change it so it doesnt cause a pregnancy or if it does. it will dictate if an HIV virus made it or not. it will alter the entire furture basically.

[JunkYard]

Yeah, I get the snowball effect, but again, I see no connection to sperm, egg, hiv, or anything of that nature. This conversation will have limits as to what it actually changes. It won't cause death, or births, or miracles, imo. It won't determine sperm, or egg, nor will it be related in any way to HIV. I just don't see it.

But, it will alter the future, just as everything else does.

That's my view, but feel free to disagree....

[fikusroot]

You are missing the point. Insanity is a mental disease caused my a malfunction of the brain. I am talking about an existance where our the reality we have percieved through the tiny organ we call the brain, is suddenly discarded and we see the truth but without thought. You're arguments are still to grounded in mortal ideas.
As for listing rules, certain standards of behavior are necessary for anyone. I do not believe in anarchy. Anarchy has never progressed society. But lets hear what you think. Do you think that commanding not to kill or steal is wrong? To treat others the way you would treat yourself? What about drugs? You cannot deny that they can cause harm to ones body and well being but can also be a helpful tool for grasping concepts that are difficult to understand sober. The "I play by my own rules" bit is just selfish.

REally, the underlying theme of my religion is the realization and acceptance that there are always going to be things outside of the human relm of comprehension and to live your life one day at a time, free from fear of death or insignificance. This will only appeal to a select few but then again, I never meant it to be a mass religion (actually its more just like a philosophy)

[JunkYard]

Back on topic...good!

sorry bout the disruption, ficusroot. :D


You are missing the point. Insanity is a mental disease caused my a malfunction of the brain. I am talking about an existance where our the reality we have percieved through the tiny organ we call the brain, is suddenly discarded and we see the truth but without thought. You're arguments are still to grounded in mortal ideas.

Do you think this will be a pure God like consciousness, or will we still be individual?

[Lucifuge]

Lucifuge, you do realize that IS wayoftheleaf don't you?

lol, he must've been high as shit when that picture was taken.

[fikusroot]

It's hard to say. I know I didn't really touch on this in the essay but I believe that everything is connected. Mathmatics is showing us this. Our conciousness is defined by what we sense around us and the way we behave adapts accordingly. Now imagine for a second, that right now, you are a god. However you are forced to live your life blind, seeing everything through eyes and feel and hearing. Once you die, you're free from all of that. We all have different personalities but the "God inside of us" is all the same from every person. We just seem different because our little carbon based vessels are different. I know this sounds very religious and spiritual but it's just a metaphor for what I believe is the truth.

[JunkYard]

Doesn't sound religious at all to me. I think the same way, only I haven't a clue as to what it would be like w/o ego, or my senses. My ID is an overbearing beast, and w/o sense of self, I think I'd be lost...

[fikusroot]

Of course you identity is overbearing. If you spend to much time worrying about it then you won't get anything done. The best solstice I can give is that everything was put into motion for some purpose. If it were'nt we wouldn't exist. this is another difficult idea to describe and a lot of people will try to counter with "Well how do you know the whole thing didnt happen by chance?" The very fact that everything happened means that there is an inherent purpose.
Remember, "you've already made the choice, it's up to you now to understand why you made it."

[JunkYard]

What choice did I make? To exist maybe?

Yup, thats a hard one to settle...

[fikusroot]

That qutoe was from the MAtrix. I just threw it in because I thought it sounded cool and would maybe get people thinking. But yeah, dont worry about why you're here, worry about what you should do now that you're here.

[JunkYard]

Moderists confess that they have no clue what is going on. They believe that by taking things one way at a time and by being informed, they can find a way to better society, which is really the whole point of their existance, to figure out what they can do to progress society forward.

This is my favorite part of your philosophy, err 'religion'...

[fikusroot]

Thanks. I like it too. It was interesting because due to the intelligence of the majority of religous leaders, it's almost as if they had a stong grasp of this truth and then fed less intelligent people easy to follow rules and metaphors so they needn't worry their heads with all the thinking it takes to understand the truth... Sorry if that didn't make sense. I am now...:stoned:

[JunkYard]

I smoked a little this morning, but have yet to light up again, but I think I understood the crux of what you said. :D