Latewood...help needed

[BlazeIdo]

Latewood, what could cause instant death to a plant other than over fert. I did everything as I always would with my DWC water change. Fully flushed with RO water. Added nutes, micro first waited 5 min, then bloom,(was using lucas), then sensizym, then calmag, then LK. I addded them at 5M 10B ,10Sensi, 5Calmag, 5LK. per gallon (values are ml). PPm's were at 960, ph 5.8 (checked with two just calibrated meters). I have noticed a bit of black build up on the root base, but I thought it was the LK because the rest of the roots were very white and the plant was growing at an amazing rate. two days later plant had completely wilted and all leaves were toasted. Couldnt believe my eyes. What could have caused this. I immediately thought nute burn but the ppms were perfect unless the root bucket didnt get mixed well, but then the ppms wouldn't have been dead on. I then thought pythium, and that the temp change of the water could have caused this. Air temperature was at 78 on the screen. It was very quick and very lethal whatever it was. Half a 4x2 scrog screen dead in 48hrs.. Please help me figure this out..... Peace

[turtle420]

Just my 0.02 bIdo,
((BTW: Hello! :)))

How many plants do you have on that one 4x2 SCRoG?
Curious, because I'd like to know if only one plant out of (example) 4 died... or what happened.

Could it have been a timer didn't work... and temps got out of hand?

Other than that... I'm stumped...
Wierd... waiting for Dr.Lwood

[latewood]

It sounds like pythium...here today, gone tomorrow, but what kind of medium were you using?

It is kind of hard to diagnose problems without piks or history.

It sounds like you were on the light side of nutes, so that didn't kill them, but what about your airstones...If they clog or get turned off..the plant will suffocate.

later

[latewood]

Also...At what point in grow were you? How far along, in what photoperiod?

[GluteusMaximus]

Hate to chime in on a post to latewood, but I couldn't resiste putting in my two cents worth.

After reading your problem, my first gutt instinct is that somehow those plants that wilted so quickly were starved of water. Here is my reasoning....

If this was a PPM problem, then it's likely that you'd have seen some indications of over/under fertilization from the plants leaves long before it completely wilts.

If this were an oxygen problem, that too should have shown up as a deficiency prior to wilt. Assuming that you had "some" air present in the water.

Water starvation can be caused from lack of exposure to water itself (clogged system), or the inability of the plant to uptake water (pythium). If the roots are suffering from pythium, enough to wilt/kill the plant, then you should be able to detect the odor on the roots. It appears you have everything under control as far as temps/PH/nutes (they don't appear to be too extreem for any grow) so I can't help but believe that the roots are the 'root' of your problem.

When you said the leaves were toasted, did you mean that they looked burnt (spotted, rusty, cooked from heat) or that they were wilted down to a stringy looking green leaf (like cooked spinich)? If they were just wilted and stringy, then that is just the same reaction the stem exhibited due to lack of water pressure in the plant. Soaking the plant in air saturated water should bring it back to life within hours if it's just water starved. If it's pythium, you'll need the power of God to bring it back.

[BlazeIdo]

It sounds like pythium...here today, gone tomorrow, but what kind of medium were you using?

It is kind of hard to diagnose problems without piks or history.

It sounds like you were on the light side of nutes, so that didn't kill them, but what about your airstones...If they clog or get turned off..the plant will suffocate.

later
The medium was river rock in a net pot (with lightproofing over it). The two bubble wands that I have in the root bucket run on 4 60 gallon pumps. Bubbles were visible so I dont believe it was suffocation

[BlazeIdo]

Also...At what point in grow were you? How far along, in what photoperiod?
The grow was in veg, 1 month in, started from clone.

[Weedhound]

Here's another cent tossed in....Blaze I'm one of the folks who answered your question about LK--since reading this post I have been watching my plants like a hawk and two quick notes: I still have that weird build up on my roots as we talked about in your post and have been noticing it for awhile (also present on the roots of my last grow) and my plants don't seem to--and never have seemed to--have a problem from it. There is no odd smell or anything coming from them. What does this wilt on the roots smell like?

[BlazeIdo]

Hate to chime in on a post to latewood, but I couldn't resiste putting in my two cents worth.

After reading your problem, my first gutt instinct is that somehow those plants that wilted so quickly were starved of water. Here is my reasoning....

If this was a PPM problem, then it's likely that you'd have seen some indications of over/under fertilization from the plants leaves long before it completely wilts.

If this were an oxygen problem, that too should have shown up as a deficiency prior to wilt. Assuming that you had "some" air present in the water.

Water starvation can be caused from lack of exposure to water itself (clogged system), or the inability of the plant to uptake water (pythium). If the roots are suffering from pythium, enough to wilt/kill the plant, then you should be able to detect the odor on the roots. It appears you have everything under control as far as temps/PH/nutes (they don't appear to be too extreem for any grow) so I can't help but believe that the roots are the 'root' of your problem.

When you said the leaves were toasted, did you mean that they looked burnt (spotted, rusty, cooked from heat) or that they were wilted down to a stringy looking green leaf (like cooked spinich)? If they were just wilted and stringy, then that is just the same reaction the stem exhibited due to lack of water pressure in the plant. Soaking the plant in air saturated water should bring it back to life within hours if it's just water starved. If it's pythium, you'll need the power of God to bring it back.

The leaves had displayed some rust spots on them earlier which I treated as a mag deficiency and they seemed to have ceased. The leaves dryed out from the old to the new. They went limp and then proceeded to dry up enough to crumble in your finger within 2 days. I thought maybe the main stem got broken during training but no. I had noticed a sewerish odor from my rez one time after a water change but it went away the next day. The roots themselves don't smell. It definately wasn't heat burn, the light is well cooled as is the room. All fans are working.

Heres one more thing. I had my RO/DI stored away for 2 days in my backroom (which stays at 65 degrees) for security reasons. Do you think something happend to the water that sat in the RO/DI filters rhat could have caused this? I also used that plastic wrap press and seal to put over the top of my buckets to stop debri from falling in them. Could the chemicals on that plastic wrap be the problem. Im stretching here.

[BlazeIdo]

Here's another cent tossed in....Blaze I'm one of the folks who answered your question about LK--since reading this post I have been watching my plants like a hawk and two quick notes: I still have that weird build up on my roots as we talked about in your post and have been noticing it for awhile (also present on the roots of my last grow) and my plants don't seem to--and never have seemed to--have a problem from it. There is no odd smell or anything coming from them. What does this wilt on the roots smell like?

The wilt is on the leaves . The roots appear white and healthy other than at the top of the roots, just like you explained. I think that was from to much oxygen exposure.

[Weedhound]

Thanks Blaze. I will be following this thread carefully. Sorry about your loss.

[BlazeIdo]

The grow was in veg, 1 month in, started from clone. Correction, 1 1/2 months in.

[BlazeIdo]

What could be used to kill pythium off meters. Bleach, Alcohol??

[Cyclonite]

H2O2 kills it....you could try treating it with 15-30 ml H2O2 per gallon. If you use organic nutes it will kill the good bugs too so you could dip the roots in a separate container for a bit and return them to the rez.

[BlazeIdo]

anyone, anyone??????

[BlazeIdo]

Latewood......any suggestions after hearing the history I gave?

[BlazeIdo]

Will sensizym and H202 be ok in the same rez?

[BlazeIdo]

Latewood I had seen that you posted a while back that if someone were to use h202, or epsom salts all the time in there nutrient solution they could run into problems. Could you expand on this because I have seen nothing but positive things about using h202 in your rez. Thanks

[Cyclonite]

Are you only wanting replies from LW? I'm not going to waste my time if my posts are going to fall on deaf ears. FYI you cant have too much O2

[latewood]

I never said either was bad. And; right on,cyclonite...you can't have to much oxy...

epsom salts are for magnesium and old schoolers still use it religiously. You need to check your nutes to see if you actually need to add epsom salts...But as the Hydro Industry progresses, comes potentially better alternatives. I like calmag+, because of all the beneficial elements in the mix. anyway: I never said epsom salts were bad or would cause problems.

Now h2o2, which in laymans terms is used to keep your root system disease free! The fact is; That if you were using any organic nutes, or additives; h2o2 would kill all beneficial organisms in your rez that those nutes were providing; Good ones and Bad ones.

So, If you choose to use "Organic" Hydro nutes, then you might want to replace h202 with an enzyme, that is compatible with organic mixes.

Here are 2 completely different enzyme products...I attest to both.
Sensi-Zyme by Advanced Nutrients is good. A product that is Organic and I find to be a great additive to your rez for root health is hygrozyme, but it costs about 35-40 bucks a liter.

cyclonite...chill, We all appreciate anyone to answer. In some cases members have read some of the many posts or threads I have done, and they feel comfortable to get confirmation, so to speak, from me. I'm not always 100% right; But, I try. It's all good, Keep up the good work. Welcome to Cdot...peace

[latewood]

no point. they basically do the same thing...See other thread. I answered your question. peace

[BlazeIdo]

Thanks for all your help everyone. Didn't mean to offend anyone. I think it was the hygromaster title that hooked me:rasta: and rightly so, Anyone with advice feel free to post!!! peace

[BlazeIdo]

Cyclonite, my (anyone anyone?) post was not meant to shrug off your answer, and was in regards to the original post. Sorry if there was some confusion, and thankyou for your advice, I used it:rasta: Peace

[Cyclonite]

Its cool, kinda jumped the gun a bit I suppose.

[Weedhound]

Blaze anything definitive on what killed your plants? Was it pythium do you think?

[BlazeIdo]

still up in the air......Pythium is my best conclusion at the moment.

[latewood]

wish you had piks...best way to learn and to get advice is piks...

We all would like to know if it was pyth wilt, but Oh well...you can always try again. We'll get you on the right track. peace