To top with ScroG?

[BlueDevil]

Ok, I've done some lookin around but still can't make up my mind - was hoping the resident pros (Jamstigator comes to mind!) could give me a quick yay or nay.

About to try the ScroG method, and am still unsure if I should do it in conjunction with some topping, or if I should do it au naturale. Whatcha think guys?

Jams, was there any topping involved with those big ass stems you showed me before? ;)

[BlueDevil]

Damnit, my apologies mods, thought I was still in the Basic Growing forum when I created this thread. Relocate away!

:o

[jamstigator]

Heh, I wish I was a pro! I'm just a dude experimenting with botany, probably the same as most people here. I just read a lot! ;)

Anyway, yes, I did top those plants, and topped my current crop too. The downside is, you have to give them time to recover from it, but I have learned patience. Also, from what I've read anyway, whether topping does anything beneficial is entirely strain-dependent. Some strains will never reach their full bud potential without topping, and some strains will just spread the bud mass they would have had with one gigantic top across the multiple tops, resulting in no extra bud mass. I can say with certainty that AK-48 and White Rhino react favorably to topping. It appears that Durban Poison x Skunk #1 and Blue Mystic also react favorably, but I won't be positive of that until they're done flowering. Either way, it won't do you any harm to top them (except for the recovery delay), but it might do a lot of good if you do...so I would top them. ;)

[gmoney5ss]

Dont mean to hijack, but about how long would you estimate it takes for the recovery after topping?

[jamstigator]

1-2 weeks, around there. What I actually TRY to do is FIM, and get more than two tops. Sometimes I succeed, sometimes not. Seems like there's just some luck involved there, but I always get at least two tops. The most I've ever gotten right off the bat is five, although I've heard of people getting eight.

You can top the topped tops too, and do it again, and get up to eight that way. Obviously, that really slows things down for a while. I've never tried to get more than eight tops; I start getting impatient. I don't even know if you can get more than eight. I've read that most strains have a genetic maximum of around 32 total growth shoots, but obviously those can't ALL be tops.

BTW, you can prune ALL the growth shoots, not just the tops. That's what I do. I top (or FIM), then prune half the other growth shoots too. After a week of recovery time I go and prune the half I didn't prune the previous week. (Plants probably wouldn't like it if you pruned down ALL the growth shoots at once.) After that, they get pretty bushy and hard to work with, so I just leave it at that.

[gmoney5ss]

thats interesting, so you top the new growth once it starts? is that what FIM means?, i dont think ive heard that term yet.. its been about a week since i topped my biggest and nothings come up, ill just have to be more patient.
heres a pic,

[jamstigator]

Hrm, how many sets of leaves/branches did that plant in the above pic have when you topped it? I can't see past the pot. Looks kinda young. I wouldn't top a plant before it has five sets plus the shoot you cut off. Very young plants don't have a lot of leaves to absorb energy, nor a lot of reserves to draw on to heal from damage, so if you top a very young plant, you might stunt its growth for a while. That'd explain why it's not produced any new growth shoots yet. It'll recover probably, but yeah, it might take a while. Can't undo it in any case, so no choice but to be patient now. Heh. ;)

[gmoney5ss]

haha yeah i thought i might have made that mistake after cutting, but i actually cut the 5th set of leaves, like u said cant undo whats already been done so ill see what happens.. and i appreciate the advice and will put it to use for next time.. hopefully it wont stunt the growth too bad, thanks for the tips though!

[Tom Green Thumb]

Jamstigator, in that picture you posted you took the top totally off and left a little stick remaining. That is not the best way to top or FIM. You want to remove not the whole growing shoot, just almost all. You want to leave some of the top green so that more shoots will sprout from it. Just want to clip the growing shoot, not remove it totally. I can't explain it in words too easily, so may be someone can post a picture. I'll look around for one for you to make it more clear.

TGT

[jamstigator]

Eh? I didn't post a picture, did I? You must be stoned! ;)

[BlueDevil]

LOL, I think you're right Jams. Heh. Damn I'm jealous.


Anyway, thanks! Now that I finally have my light situation errr, situated I'm going to scrog away with wild care-free abandon, topping perhaps once or twice.

And yes, I think stems that thick and branches that lush do indeed put you in the Pro crowd. I'm the noob! :D

[jamstigator]

Whatcha growing, if I might ask? Bagseed, or something else? I'm trying out some Nirvana Blue Mystic here, plus one Durban Poison x Skunk #1 plant that I've been keeping alive since April or May. Gonna start flowering today, woot, hoping for some Christmas buds, or maybe New Years buds.

I didn't have enough room in my flowering cabinet for all of them, so I'm using a tiny closet too, got it stuffed (so far) with 500+ (real) watts of CFLs. Lol, 14 CFL bulbs in there so far, and gonna try to get eight more in there, if I can do it without tripping the circuit breaker. A second HPS light would be far more efficient in terms of light/electricity, but don't have the buckazoids to spare for that, and do have a lot of CFLs laying around, sooo...ya do what ya gotta do!

[BlueDevil]

A friend of mine back in Florida approved heartily of my interest in botanical self-sufficiency, and gifted me with 50 seeds of his own private reserve. He brought this stock from Hawaii when he moved back to mainland, and told me it was "3rd generation White Widow," adding that it was very Indica-esque. All I know is they look far different than the schwag bagseed I had collected up to that point. Smaller, far darker, and with tiger-like stripes on the majority of them. My first attempt with them still isn't fully done, but I now know it has been hampered by incorrect topping and insufficient light.


But not this time! Christmas bud is my intention as well. I've invested in some quality components and nutes, and Round 2 should start tomorrow actually. I'll be supplementing 400W of MH with an additional 160W of CFLs (about 44,000 combined lumens at 6500K if my math is correct) for about 8 weeks of vegging. Then it's over to 55,000 lumens of Hortilux love for some bloomin. Organic EarthJuice will be on the menu for both phases, and of course I'm going to give scrog a shot, but this time not top until after I see 6 nodes (did it after 3 this past try, booo). Space and cooling are not issues for me. :)

Figure I'd exhaust my current seed bank for experience's sake before moving up to the awesome strains you guys dabble with. Can't wait to see what a difference HID makes. :D

[jamstigator]

Oh, you'll be amazed at how big a difference the HID lights make. Just be gentle with 'em when they're seedlings and I think you'll kick ass, sounds like you have a good plan to me!

I envy you your lack of space issues. I don't have any probs cooling (not with winter coming, anyway), but space, that I have very little of. But that's fine with me - this isn't a money-making enterprise for me. I just like supplying myself. I have enough excess to help a couple of good friends out for free, and enough excess beyond that to let another friend buy some from me to cover my costs and make what I smoke free. That's enough for me; I'm not greedy and have no aspirations of being a commercial grower or anything.

Three cheers for botanical self-sufficiency! ;)

[BlueDevil]

*cheers* :dance:

Damn skippy. My goals are identical to yours; personal supply, with maybe a bag to a friend to cover grow expenses. The 'retail' scene bothers me, which is why I want nothing more to do with it, client-side or otherwise.

One final question for you in this misplaced thread of mine: would starting seedlings under lower wattage CFLs be preferable to letting them peek under MH, or should they get as much light as possible from the get-go, providing a safe distance is maintained?


Oh, are you East Coast Jams? New England by any chance? Was serious about my last mention of alcoholic beverages... ;)

[jamstigator]

Yeah, retail involves too much stuff that attracts attention, especially foot traffic. In my area, that'd be noticed immediately by nosy neighbors. And naw, not east coast here - I'm in the land of Busch beer, the conservative backwards state of Misery...er, Missouri. (Go Cards!)

As for the MH, if you keep it far enough away when the plants are young, should be okay. But...seen an awful lot of people fry seedlings too. Since all they really need when they're very young (like less than 2 inches tall or so) is a little light, I'd just use a few CFLs, then when they get a set of real leaves or two, hit them with the MH from a distance. Save a little electricity that way too. Of course, cold weather season is almost upon us, so could be you'll WANT some extra heat from the lights. Kill two birds that way, good for plants, less expense on your gas bill! I closed all the vents on the floor with the lights here, and so far, the lights are all the heat that floor has needed. I wonder if running the lights is cheaper than gas heating. Heh.

[turtle420]

What a nice thread. :)
I like it!

[BlueDevil]

My wife's home state, how about that...

Yep, the heat part of the equation is indeed a boon now that it's winter, so I'll just stick with the heavy guns I guess. Thanks again!





Heh, thanks turtle!