joe-grow's first grow

[joe-grow]

Long time reader, first time poster. Long time smoker, first time grower.

So, I've finally decided to take the plunge into growing. I spent the last month just reading up on the postings here, as well as some magazines I picked up at a local hydro store. This board was the most helpful, and I hope to repay that help with a grow report which I hope helps at least one other person out. During this time, I'm sure I will ask for assistance from some of you out there, and I hope that I am as fortunate to receive some of the very knowledgeable responses I've seen thus far. The magazines which helped me with my learning included Maximum Yield, The Growing Edge, and The Indoor Gardener.

Where to begin was my first big question. I've heard that this plant grows anywhere and quite easily. However, I didn't just want a weed growing, I wanted a plant. (I hope that came out like it sounded in my head). It turns out that if you are going to do it right, there's a LOT you need to learn. Even after all the reading I did, I still felt that there was so much to learn. At one point, I realized that you have to put down the books, and just jump in. I have the good fortune of being able to invest in this project as needed. However, I did not want to throw money away. I'm sure I will, in hindsight, feel some money was misspent, but I had to start somewhere.

This report will be as detailed as I can possibly make it. The only thing that I plan to leave out are specifics that could identify anything about me, or where I am located. While I understand all too well, that there are ways to track someone on the Internet, I am hopeful that nobody who can obtain that information has any malicious intentions towards me and my project. When I read about Zandor's break-in, stealing all of his crop, which he needed for medicinal purposes, I, as many others, wanted revenge on the low-lifes who would do something like that. I've never seen anything but help come from Zandor, either through his postings here, or his Grow Report podcast. All I know is that karma has a way of coming back to bite you. Whomever did that, will most certainly get theirs. In any event, it really spooked me to be cautious, while still giving something back to the community which helped me get started.

The method I've chosen is hydroponics, and more specifically aeroponics. I realize that for a first time grower this is a challenge. Well, one of the reasons I got into this was the challenge. I expect I will stumble, instead of building up from soil. Who knows, I may scrap this direction and switch to soil. But, for now, I'm going with the aeroponics. I chose this method because it seemed less complicated than the other hydroponics methods, with no complex watering schedules or draining setup. In addition, it seemed that, of the hydroponics methods available, this seemed to produce the best results, as far as crops. I am a little concerned with how I am going to change the nutrient mix as necessary, but I'll go into that in another post, when I cover the gear I'm using.

Next post .... my parts list.

[joe-grow]

One of the things that I found difficult to determine was what hardware would be necessary for this project. I noticed many people posted grow reports which started out with some of what they started out with, but I didn't find one that was complete. That could be because many people, like me, don't know about everything they will need to get started. My first attempt, which I thought was complete at first, turned out to be missing some key items. I would imagine I still don't know some of what I'm missing yet. Hopefully, someone will chime in and fill in any missing parts, before my next trip to the store.

I have learned about some of the basics, such as lights, pots, thermometers, and fans. However, I still have yet to come up with what I will need for nutrients. I did pick up some nutrients, but I'm not sure if what I have is all that I will require. I still have some time, since I can not start my seedlings just yet. Speaking of seeds, I plan to start with bag seed. This is to get some practice, before I try with seeds that cost me money.

The other thing that puzzled me was the lighting. Recently, there was a posting about fluorescent lighting for the flowering stage, specifically T5 lights. The thread seemed logical, but then there was some existing members that tried debunking the intent of the thread. So, I went with the popular High Pressure Sodium (HPS) lamps. My outlay so far (not counting the money spent for seeds) is about $1000 (US).

Anyway, on with the list. Here's a list of hardware from my first shopping trip ....
HyrdoHut
Vortex Exhaust Fan (400)
Garden of Ease (aeroponic planter for 4 plants)
HPS Light Kit (Gavita 600W bulb, w/built-in reflector, along with a Megalux reflector)
Lumatek Ballast
Digital Thermometer (w/humidity levels and high/low memory)
Timer (dual outlet)
Elf Carbon Filter (for HydroHut)
4 Clamps (for vent hose, exhaust fan, & carbon filter)
Rapid Rooter Tray
2 - 10' chains (for light)
Pack of S-hooks (for raising and lowering light)
Pack of Cable Ties
4" venting hose (like what would be used for dryer vents)In addition to the hardware, I picked up the following nutrients & solutions (all are from the General Hydroponics (GH) line, unless noted) -
FloraGro (1 pint)
FloraBloom (1 pint)
FloraMicro (1 pint)
pH Down (1 quart)
SUPERthrive (not GH, not sure who the manufacturer is)
pH TesterMy next trip's shopping list contains the following items (so far) -
Eye Dropper (for testing pH)
Measuring Cup or Measuring Spoons (for nutrients)
Disposable Rubber Gloves (to protect me and the plants)
Tray Cover (for Rapid Rooter)
Seedling Warming Pad (for Rapid Rooter)
Fluorescent Light (for Vegetative Stage)
Distilled Water (not sure about this - may just leave tap water sit out)
CO2 Tablets (from pet store)
Seltzer Water (to spray on plants for CO2)
Fan (to circulate air in the tent, and make plants stronger)
Spray Bottle
PPM Meter
GH FloraKleenIf anyone can think of anything I've missed, please let me know. :)

Until I get back to the store, I can't really start my seeds, since it is too cold in my growing area. My plan is to drop the seeds into the Rapid Rooter tray, and keep the tray in a dark place on the warming mat, until they sprout. Once they sprout, I believe it is save to put them under the fluorescent lights. Hopefully, someone will correct me there if I'm wrong. I also need to exchange the HydroHut for the mini version. The regular size is massive and way too big for the space I plan to set it up. I believe that I will be able to make due until I can get the replacement HydroHut, which will take me a couple weeks.

Next post .... my unresolved questions about nutrients ....

[Pass That Shit]

Sometimes it doesn't have to be as complicated as it sounds to achieve decent results. Here's my list from start to finish.

Seeds
Pots
Peat and Perlite
Light
Fish Emulsion and Big Bloom
Timer
Very cheap fan which I no longer use due to low temps.

Everything can be very technical if you analyze it. I just threw the seeds into the soil and after they popped, I hung the light above them. My well water is over 7, so I went with peat cause the pH is lower. It's just a weed, so if you give it some decent draining soil and artificial light, it will grow. If I were you though, since you're putting time and effort into this project to do it right, I would get some quality seeds. I can tell by your preparation that you're gonna do just fine, and with the money already invested in this project, what's another 50 bucks to get some good seeds? Can't wait to sample my White Widow and compare it to the bag seeds from my last grow.

Good Luck with your project :thumbsup:

[joe-grow]

High PTS,

Thanks for visiting! Yes, it's probably a lot less complicated than I see it right now. But, I won't get a feel for that until I get started. Since I've never grown before, I decided to start with 'free' seeds, instead of quality seeds I pay for. I have already obtained some seeds for later. But, before I learn about things like germination, detecting males, and just using my new gear, I wanted to practice on bag seeds. I have a lot more bag seed on hand than good seeds.

Once I've gotten a grow or two under my belt, I plan to try White Widow and Northern Lights #5. I noticed your White Widow thread. It's looking good. :thumbsup: Hope you enjoy the smoke. As you mentioned, I may have a tough time holding out for the cure. It's been a while since I've had any smoke, so I may try to snag some early, for my xmas holiday.

[faithlessxxx]

.

Yeah, gonna be fun following.
Good luck.
Ctrl + D

.

[joe-grow]

One of the most confusing things in my research about growing, was the usage of nutrients. The other things was how to keep bad things out of my growing environment. Keeping the environment clean of bad things is probably something I'll learn during the process. What I'm curious about now, is how to use nutrients. During my first trip to the hydro store, I picked up three bottles of the Flora series from General Hydroponics (GH).

The three that I picked up were the FloraGro, FloraMicro, and FloraBloom. In addition to those, I also picked up SUPERthrive, which I believe is for getting seedlings started (at least that's what was handed to me when I asked for something to help get seedlings started). From what I can tell, I will need to add a portion (according to the charts on the back of the bottles) from each of the three bottles throughout the the growing cycle. The portions vary for each solution during different stages. If that's correct, then how do I increase levels of phosphorus (P), to help increase the chances of females (I believe that was one of the suggestions I heard from Zandor's podcast)? Is there something I am missing that contains only phosphorus? How about the SUPERthrive - should I add that throughout the growing cycle? Based on the experiences of some of you existing growers out there - will 1 pint of each of these nutrient solutions be sufficient for an entire grow cycle, if I'm changing the nutrients/water every two weeks?

In addition to the above nutrients, I received two bottles with the Garden of Ease aeroponics garden kit I picked up. These are marked 'EN' and 'EA', and are labeled 'mycorrhizal and bacterial inoculant'. Do I need this? If so, when?

Just to confirm, in order to provide a flush of the nutrients, I should use something like FloraKleen during the last two weeks of the flowering stage, right? Should this without any other nutrients, and just water and the FloraKleen?

Finally, about changing the nutrients/water in the aeroponics planter. According to the directions, I should connect a hose to the pump which normally sprays the roots of the plants. There is a hole in the center of the planter to run this hose to the pump. What if that does not clear out the entire planter? Should I make sure it is completely empty, before I refill it with a new supply of nutrients & water? If so, what do I do with the plants while I'm emptying the planter? I would have to remove the tray where the baskets sit, so that I can dump out the reservoir. I've heard that roots should not be exposed to light. Should I do this while it is dark in the room? Also, what should I do with the nutrients - how should they be disposed? I read somewhere on the boards that it's not a good idea to just dump them down the sink, or funky things might sprout up down there.

Thanks for dropping by! Other than responding to answers/questions from others, there's not much more I'll be able to post until my next shopping trip. I don't want to start my seedlings until I get a warming pad, since it's getting colder here. As soon as I get those started, I should be able to post some photos from then on.

[joe-grow]

Recently, I picked up some more parts, and returned one. This trip allowed me to get the remaining items I needed to get started. :dance: It also taught me a little lesson. Total costs so far is about $1175, not counting seeds.

I learned that I should have considered all the testers I needed before buying any testers. I knew that I needed an EC or PPM. What I didn't know is that you can get a pH and EC tester all in one. That wasn't a very costly mistake, but for anyone on a tight budget, it is worth considering. The pH test kit was only about $8, so it wasn't that big of a loss.

I had to return the HydroHut. :( The standard model is just way too large. I need to pick up a mini when they have them in stock again. I may just order that online. I've noticed at least one place that was less expensive than the local shop. In exchange for the credit I received for the hut, I picked up the following hardware items from my list ...
Heat Mat (for seedlings)
Dome (for Rapid Rooter)
pH/EC/TDS Tester
Measuring Cup
T5 Fluorescent Lamp (4 bulbs, 2 feet long)In addition to the hardware, I also picked up some more nutrients and other consumables ....
Flora-series (same as before, but in 1 quart sizes)
FloraKleen (1 gallon)
Hydroton Rocks (10 liters)
Distilled Water (1 gallon)
Seltzer Water (1 quart)The Garden of Ease came with some stones to put in the baskets, but I've never seen anyone on here use them. The guy at the hydro store never heard of them, nor did he even know they came with the kit. So, I picked up some of the Hydroton Rocks (listed above already). I'm a little nervous about the baskets. They are 3" in diameter, and I don't believe I've ever noticed any other grow posted here use something that small.

So, now that I have what I needed, I have set up a temporary space to start my seedlings. The space isn't very good, but it's all I have until I get the new hut. I mounted my lamp. Then, I placed my seeds in the starter plugs in the Rapid Rooter. I put some of the distilled water into a spray bottle (which I found around the house) and added a drop of the SUPERthrive. I sprayed the starter plugs with a light mist and put the dome on. Then I placed it on the Heat Mat.

I only planted 6 seeds this time, just in case I've made a mistake. I emptied out the Rapid Rooter of the other starter plugs and stored them in a zip lock back for another planting. I left the seeds in the room to germinate, and left the lamp off. I'm pretty sure that I read that you should leave the seeds in the dark until they sprout. If not, someone please feel free to correct me.

I have attached some shots of what I have so far. The first photo is of the Rapid Rooter with the Dome attached and under the T5 lights. The second photo is a close up of the seeds in the Rapid Rooter cubes.

[joe-grow]

First, let me correct myself. Apparently, I misunderstood the hydro shop tech about the EC/PPM tester. The one I picked up does not test for pH, only EC/PPM. So, scratch that lesson earlier. I suppose I should have read the instructions prior to making that post.

Well, it's about 12 hours after I dropped the seeds into the Rapid Rooter starter plugs. I placed the thermometer under the hood to keep an eye on the temperature and humidity. The temperature under the hood is 81F and relative humidity (RH) is 80%. Outside the dome, temperature is 71F.

I've read many threads about germinating seeds, and am not sure I've started mine correctly. I've read about the paper towel method, and others who have dropped theirs directly into the starter cubes. Also, I've noted that some turn their lights on, only after they start to see the seed sprout, while others turn it on from the very begining. Currently, my lights are still off. Hopefully someone will chime in and advise me about any corrections I should make here.

I guess the first time always makes you nervous, eh? (germinating seeds, that is)

[faithlessxxx]

.

Light has only to do with photosynthesis, not root development.
However, I believe the natural condition for a seed is to be half a centimeter down in the dark soil, with light just above.

.

[Bodom Children Of]

I guess the first time always makes you nervous, eh? (germinating seeds, that is)

Yes, i remember way back when. Twas full of wonder and confusion, after the first time though it's easy. I'm going though the emotions again with my first time cloning.:smokin:

To germinate:
I just soak mine in a glass of water until the seeds crack and you can see white, then i put em in damp paper towel set in a sandwich container). Set the container on a heat source (external hard drive). Once you see a little taproot then transplant.

I'm sure both ways will work, especially with starter plugs....good luck:thumbsup:

[joe-grow]

Thanks faithlessxxx for that suggestion. I waited for a full 24 hours to go by, and then turned on the T5's.

Bodom - yes, that describes it well 'wonder and confusion'. To add to that, I think I would say anxiousness for the crop. Quality and reliability drove me to this. Plus, in addition to the crop itself, I hear gardening can be a good way to relieve stress.

I'll give the starter plugs a week to germinate. After that, I'll give the glass of water a shot. I've read several other people who mention that also. I don't want to change direction with these seeds at this point. Part of my objective here is to learn, so this will teach me if it's worthwhile to use the starter plugs. If they work, albiet longer germination period, is there any benefit to using this method as opposed to the glass of water or paper towel method, I wonder.

So far, I'm just checking for growth and moisture. Overnight, the temps dropped about 10F, but still high enough. (~70F in / 60F out)

[joe-grow]

So, it appears that I've cracked some seeds. The light has been on for about 18 hours straight now. Today, I added a fan, and turned off the warming mat. It hit 91F at one point, and I figured that it was getting too warm. Now, my environment is at 79F inside with 75% RH, and 68F outside.

You can see in the picture attached that (starting from top left) seeds #2, #3, #4, & #5 have cracked. #5 shows the most significant progress so far. #6 appears to have cracked, but has looked like that since yesterday. #1 is just plain slow and/or lazy. I'm not counting on all of them cracking, but would hope to get at least two. From that, hopefully one will be a female.

Anyone know when I should start using nutrients? So far, I just keep misting them with distilled water mixed with a drop of SUPERthrive.

Also, I've been reading up on the HydroHut, and am somewhat on the fence about getting it. I only have one exhaust fan. The hut would be located in a basement, where it would stay pretty cool. Any opinions on sticking with this option? How about humity and air intake? Should I get a fan to pull air into the hut? I plan to have a fan inside, circulating the air, but had not planned for an intake fan. The exhaust fan will not be connected to the light, but I was planning on leaving it running 24/7. One of the reasons I've been considering the hut, is that I've read that it's best for keeping light in/out; helps prevent flooding; can be passed off as a clothes storage unit; and costs about the same as it would if I bought enough mylar to cover the space needed.

Finally, should I leave the lights on 24/7? I've read from some that this is ok. I have a timer, but seem to recall that this might be better.

[Ginnas]

Looking good so far mate. You've got a good setup. About the intake fan, if your exhaust fan is pulling 24/7 all you should need in a grow tent is an intake duct(the exhaust pushing air out should pull air in through the intake duct. I would also tie a stocking/pantyhose around the intake to further prevent insects or anything of that nature getting inside your tent. Good luck bro, can't wait to see how your first grow turns out. :thumbsup:

[Deejay2163]

Here's a suggestion Joe. Go to youtube.com and type in keywords "grow green" and check out that guys hydro setup.He's pretty thorough in his explanation of things and even though he's using a different hydro setup from yours ,many of the basics will remain basically the same.It's a nine part video series so it takes a little while to watch them all but in my opinion they are very informative.

[JackdaWack]

these are some longg as postss man.. lol u'll have a fun first time grow, you
seem to be doing your homework, you can find any answers to ur questions, just start a massive search on here. You'll find all you need and more on nutes and other things, as for seedling from germination just feed them plain water for a week. and what ever nutes u decied to get follow there directions and use less then recomened by percent and go up or down untill u see where the plants like there leves. because not all strains need the same and some grow fater.

[joe-grow]

Well, good news, I had 5 out of 6 seeds crack. I transfered 4 of them to the Garden of Ease. So far all seem to have taken the transfer without any problems. The setup is still in the open in a utility room. I won't have their new home for about two weeks. I'm currently debating whether to stick with the HydroHut, or go with a storage cabinet from Lowes. I believe the storage cabinet would be easier to pass off as insignificant. In addition, I want two spaces ultimately - one for the veg room and one for the flowering room. Two cabinets from Lowes will cost me less than one of the HydroHuts. However, I'm concerned about the potential of the cabinets, which are made of particle board, warping.

The pictures attached are of the 4 that I kept. The first one is the only one to have shed it's shell completely. I'm sure it won't be long before the 3rd and 4th ones shed theirs.

Also, thanks to Ginnas, Deejay, and JackdaWack for stopping by. Ginnas, thanks for the advice. Covering intake vents is an excellent idea. Deejay, thanks for the suggestion. I've actually watched that video, 'I Grow Chronic' in it's entirety on Pot.TV. That's actually what prompted me to seriously consider doing it myself. JackdaWack, yeah, I know, I can be a little long winded. I've done a lot of searching around this forum. It's helped a lot. Usually, if I'm posting a question here, it's because I just couldn't find what I was seeking. There may be answers that I've found, but not enough supporting evidence to support the argument. One thing I've found is that there are often may variables and many methods of growing.

Thanks for reading and suggestions!

[Deejay2163]

1 week 4 days of life from good ole bagseed no less. This is 1 six pack of four that i have vegging now

[joe-grow]

Deejay, that's about twice the amount of time I've had mine growing. From where I am now, it's hard to believe that mine will reach that in 11 days. What kind of light are you using? Currently, I'm still under the T5's, and they are running 24 hours a day. I was going to let them run 18/6, but it's just too cold in that room, and I was worried that if it dropped below 60F for too long they wouldn't make it. Currently, it stays pretty steady at 71F.

Good job, Deejay!

[Deejay2163]

believe it or not joe.those little babies are under regular old 4 ft shoplight fixtures with cheap old wal mart bulbs.80 watts total, but i do mine a little differently than most.Those plants in the pictures are putting on their third set of true leaves now.I will transplant them into a little larger pots in the next week. they'll be put into the flower chamber in three weeks from now or less depending on growth.

[Deejay2163]

By the way...Those are under 18/6 .everything needs to sleep a little.

[Deejay2163]

ooopps...sorry...160 watts total.

[joe-grow]

Well, it appears I've managed to sprout some seeds. :dance: Four out of the original 6 that I started with, have sprouted. (To be fair, I threw one away that was beginning to sprout, due to room in the garden - only four spots). It appears that I may have added nutrients a little too soon. The bottle did say that I could start with a nutrient schedule during the seedling stage. Three of the four plants have some yellowing on the tips, and from what I've read, I believe this to mean nutrient burn? So, do I dump the water now, or let it ride until the first water change - in about a week? When adding nutrients, I followed the mixing instructions exactly - not full strength at this point.

Deejay, those plants look nice! Amazing that they were done with a shop light. I am using a T5 with 4 6500k bulbs. I'm going with the 24 hour schedule for now. This is one of those things which I have seen many opinions about. I will switch to a 12/12 schedule for flowering. But, for now, unless someone can make a good case for switching during this stage, I'm going to give this a try. The reason I am using this schedule, is a faster vegetative cycle. I'm on a race for something to sample during my vacation at the end of December. I realize it won't have time to cure properly. I just plan to take a sample and cure the rest.

Update pictures attached ..... First one is the overall garden. The remaining are individual shots, starting with the top left, and moving counter-clockwise.

[joe-grow]

So far the plants are moving along. Today, I added a little more water and checked the pH and ppm. The pH tested at 6.5 and ppm at ~360. I believe the pH is good, but not sure about the ppm. I have also noticed roots starting from all four plants. I was amazed to see how long the roots had gotten this soon.

The first shot shows the root development, and the subsequent photos are in the same order as previous postings. A couple of them still look like there is a problem, due to the coloring. Any suggestions/ideas?

Thanks for reading!

[blue_ox]

good plan joe-grow :thumbsup:
... I also just bought a hydrohut mini and am using a 430w hps and a 200w cfl 6400k

I have only 1 space for now so have to veg and bloom in same place ... was thinking that, after veg'n with the 200w cfl , I'll just put the 200w cfl on with the 430w hps during flowering 12/12 cycle .. thats alot more lumens per sq/ft * ( ~= 1445 in addition to the 6111 lumens )

Is it worth the extra BTU's ... any opinions?

I'm an organic guy so using cox farms stuff ... worm castings .. etc.


|}

:stoned:

[joe-grow]

Hi blue_ox .... I'm not a light expert, but I've read others here that say that using both lights as you say, is a good idea. Use the CFL for side lighting, is what I've seen a lot. However, I'm not sure that the HPS is strong enough. I've heard that you need to have at least 600w for the HydroHut (even the mini).

I've debated about the organic route, but thought it was more complicated. Let me know how yours turns out.

[MegaOctane12]

Nice one JoeGrow, your very good at documenting all that shit, I think in a similar way but I can't recall it all just like that. You've asked a hella'va lot of questions there so I'm just gonna bail out and say you have the very best of luck with this and I'll be watching.

[blue_ox]

hey joe-grow ...

it *should* be enough lumens .. like ~= 7000+ per sq' ..
the BTU trade off is a problem for me to vent enough heat

So we will see .... :thumbsup:

|}

[joe-grow]

Hi MegaOctane - yep, I lke to be detailed. :) Hopefully someone can pick up on some of my questions, so they stop piling up. That is one of the reasons I started this log, to help fill the gaps along the way.

blue_ox - what kind of venting are you using? I was told, using the fan that I picked up, that temperature inside the tent shouldn't be more than ~9F than room temperature, but that was just the 600w lamp. I've since picked up a T5, which I'm thinking of using for side lighting, once I switch to flowering and put the HPS on top.

I am also, considering switching to a cabinet, instead of the HydroHut. I figured a cabinet would be a little more stealth, but I'm still on the fence. I need to make a decision after this week. How do you like the tent so far?

[blue_ox]

blue_ox - what kind of venting are you using? I was told, using the fan that I picked up, that temperature inside the tent shouldn't be more than ~9F than room temperature, but that was just the 600w lamp. I've since picked up a T5, which I'm thinking of using for side lighting, once I switch to flowering and put the HPS on top.

I am also, considering switching to a cabnet, instead of the HydroHut. I figured a cabinet would be a little more stealth, but I'm still on the fence. I need to make a decision after this week. How do you like the tent so far?

I'm using Can-Fan RSS4HO 178cfm 4" with a Can 9000 filter, the hydrohut mini is only about 60cf so that should be enough for a 430w hps and a
200w cfl.

thats 600w total = 2049btu/hr or 3.412btu per watt
( http://www.infinitepower.org/calc_watts.htm )

A simple rule of thumb for calculating cooling flow requirements is:

CFM = 3.16 x watts/allowed temperature rise (°F)

This calculation only represents required airflow, not the fan rating. It is a conservative number because there always is some radiated cooling and turbulent flow within the chassis that can help remove heat from components. In a well-designed chassis, one can count on getting only 40-50% of the free airflow rating for a fan. Thus, a 300W system with a 20°F temperature rise would need about 47 CFM through the chassis or a fan with a free air rating of 100 CFM.


ok if security is needed then cabinet's are a good way to go .. lockable and
able to be in the open ... a hydrohut is not good for that.

take care man

|}


:stoned:

[blue_ox]

just another tid-bit

I'll leave the fan on 24 hours this time
to see if the DIF method works ( cooler temps
at night reduce internodal's .. but ... )

read:

http://www.hrt.msu.edu/course/HRT221/PDF_Files/TemperatureGasses%20compressed.pdf


|}

:stoned:

[joe-grow]

So, after a bit of a break, while relocating the young plants, and learning a few lessons about cabinet grows. I learned I should consider all dimensions of all equipment when planning a cabinet plan change. I learned that an open grow environment needs to be hidden every time a utility service person shows up to check on equipment located within your grow area, until you get a cabinet. 6 gallons of water isn't light, after carrying it several times.

I tried to go with a laminate cabinet from the local hardware store. Unfortunately, a 24" cabinet is not really a 24" interior dimension, but then again, a 24" lamp isn't really 24". The lamp case is a little less than 24", but the cord more than makes up the difference, and then pushes it over 24" length. That wasn't the only problem; the depth of the garden - about 15.5" is deeper than most of the laminate cabinets you find at the local hardware store. Well, the first attempt, even though too small for the garden, did work out well as a storage cabinet for supplies. In replacement, I found my cabinet at the local office supply store. It's 18" deep, 36" wide, and 72" tall. This should be able to handle all the current equipment. I will, however need to make some adjustments to the cabinet.

First, the interior needs to be painted a flat white, to help in reflecting the light. Currently, it's a beige color. I also need to cover up all the holes, for the shelf hooks, to minimize the light into the cabinet. Finally, I will need to cut exhaust holes for the vent/filter and intake filter. I picked up a standard fresh air return duct filter cover, and a trim-able filter (to help minimize light from outside) to provide a fresh air intake. I will post photos once that project has been completed. So far, costs are up another $320 to about $1500 overall (not counting seeds).

For now, they are sitting in a storage area, with no filter, but a fan that circulates the air in the room. They are still under the T5 lamps. A couple days ago, I changed the water for the first time, and it seems to have gone ok. I was able to place the cover of the garden in another container while I cleaned out the garden reservoir. I'm not sure if it is good to expose the plants' roots to that much light. I changed the nutrient mix to the next level in the schedule. Initially, I started with 1/4 TSP per gallon (1.5 TSP total for my garden of 6 gallons). This time, I went with 1 TSP per gallon, or 6 TSP total for my garden, of each FloraGro, FloraBloom, FloraMicro. I also added a couple drops of the SUPERthrive.

After a couple days to settle down after the water change, the numbers are
pH = 6.0
ppm = 685
water temp = 73.5F
air temp = 72F
RH = 36%Now, I am in day 22, and the photos below are from this morning. They appear to be growing a lot faster now. The lower leaves don't look very good. I'm not sure if this is normal, or an indication of something wrong. The upper left plant (photo 1) was the fastest to crack it's shell, and has been the clear winner in growth on a consistent basis. The one in the lower left, however, has been starting to show some accelerated growth in recent days, and that one was the last to really sprout - I needed to help remove it's shell at the beginning. The stems appear to be getting thicker and stronger. I still need to pick up a couple small, oscillating fans to blow across the plants. The one I'm using now, even at its lowest setting, it way too strong for blowing directly on these plants.

Hopefully, with some luck, I'll get the cabinet ready to go before the next water change.

[joe-grow]

So, I've posted a couple more pics of the current plants. They are sprouting new sets of leaves very quickly now. I'm worried that the lower leaves will now suffer from lack of light, given the canopy with the close quarters of this garden. It's difficult, even with the reflector built into the T5 lamp, I'm still losing a lot of light due to the environment - out in the open, without any reflective surfaces to help provide side light.

They have grown to approximately 6" in height. They appear to have strong, thick stems, measuring a little under 1/8" in diameter. Their stems are not as long and thin as I thought they would be. I've seen many post here that appear to be a lot thinner than mine. These stems seem to be shorter and thicker. One plant appears to be developing roots close to the surface of the seedling starter cube. Not sure, but may have to cover that up better. I wonder if it has something to do with them constantly being under the pump in the water.

I have the cabinet, but I need to either paint the interior, or line it with mylar. I believe that that mylar is easier to apply and more reflective than using flat white paint. However, painting is easier, in that I can obtain supplies easier. To get mylar, I'd have to wait for a shipment, or drive to the local hydro shop, which is probably a good 3 hour round trip. On the other hand, it may be some time before I have time to get the cabinet ready - I could always order it now, and if it's here, then I'll use that.

I'm hoping to get these cabinets ready before flowering begins. This will allow me to cut down on the smell, as well as the light and noise (fan). I'm curious on how long I should wait before attempting flowering. Should I take a clone from each to determine it's sex? This might be easier than finding out while they are in the planter, and develop interwoven roots. I believe you need to have at least 5 sets of branches (nodes?) before taking clones. Mine have three.

I'm considering building my own aeroponics garden, after I have the cabinet ready. It seems my plants are a little too close together. I could use a couple, longer, thinner containers, which could hold the same amount of plants, but spread them out, helping to avoid their canopy overcoming one another.

When I get to flowering, or perhaps at least when I have at least 5 nodes, I will add the HPS lamp, and move the T5 to the side of the plants. This should help a lot with the side lighting loss from lack of reflective surfaces on the sides currently.

[TheGreenFog]

Hey, JoeGrow...nice thread. I can't take the time to read all that info right now, but I want to soon. Then I'll be caught up. Looks like you've really done your homework. Very good. Can't wait to see the final results. Like was said, though, try not to over-analyze too much and kill your plants with too much kindness. :) So far, they look good. Be back to check in soon.

:rasta: RastafarI

TGF

[joe-grow]

Welcome to my grow thread, TGF. Thanks for the note. I hope I'm not getting 'too' analytical. I sometimes overthink things, I realize. The more I learn, and the further I get, the more relaxed I get about the whole thing. It's just not knowing what you're doing that get's me a little anxious. Once this first grow is under my belt, I'll probably feel much more comfortable.

There are so many little details that I'm learning now that I've actually tried growing. With all the reading I did, I didn't think I'd encounter very many new/unexpected things. The ammonia smell, for instance, was very surprising. I thought something was seriously wrong. After checking around a bit, I came to find that it was normal. I had expected odors during the flowing period, but not during the vegetative period.

[Slackersulli]

How close do you have your T5 fixture to the plants? Other than that you seem to have it under control. Also, if you want mylar, you can go to Wal-Mart or some such store and get those space blankets. They come in first aid kits, they are a pretty cheap option.

[joe-grow]

Hi Slackersulli .... I keep the T5 fixture about 3 to 5 inches from the tops of the plants.

Thanks for the tip about the mylar. It might be easier for me to pick up the roll. It's a bit of a drive, but I could always think of something else I 'should' probably pick up.

I picked up most of what I think I'll need to get the cabinet ready, short of the mylar. I had to pick up some drill bits, in order to cut through this metal, so that I could run the vents. I found a cool dryer vent, which closes when not being used. I tried to cut the holes, but the drill ran out of steam. Hopefully, I'll have all but the mylar done before the weekend.

Anyone have tips on pruning? :confused: I'm starting to see some leaves which don't look very healthy anymore. I recall reading that you should prune, to keep the dead leaves from bringing the whole plant down, but not sure when to start (from seedling stage, now around 4 nodes, maybe 5). Or, how to prune - all the way to the main stem?

The stems all look like they are getting thicker, which I hope is to support some large buds. :) Some of the nodes have branches which show some brownish color, instead of the green that many have. Not sure what to make of that. :confused: They are drinking about a quart of water (or it's getting lost through evaporation) a day now.

Well, that's about all for today's update. Hope to have some pics of the plants, as well as whatever progress I make on the cabinet build out.

Thanks for reading!

[Bodom Children Of]

Anyone have tips on pruning? :confused: I'm starting to see some leaves which don't look very healthy anymore. I recall reading that you should prune, to keep the dead leaves from bringing the whole plant down, but not sure when to start (from seedling stage, now around 4 nodes, maybe 5). Or, how to prune - all the way to the main stem?

don't prune!
evidently fan leaves can still provide the plant with some energy eventhough they look bad. just wait until they fall off the plant then throw them away.
that's what i do anyway.....good luck on your grow, can't wait for the pictures.:thumbsup: :smokin:

[TheGreenFog]

Most people say don't prune. My standpoint is...if the leaf looks really close to dying or dead...get if off there. If there is still some green to it, leave it on. "I" have pruned several of the plants...especially bottom growth that is not receiving light. I've even chopped partial leaves (even though this seems to kill the whole leaf :o) I haven't seen a significant negative impact on the plants health due to pruning some. It actually seems to help. Just don't go all crazy and prune BIG fan leaves just cuz they are a little pale or have a spot on them. :D

Hello, my name is TGF...and I prune.

(audience: Hellooo, TGF.)

my :twocents:

:rastabong: :baggy: <~~~Here...hit this, it's the sh*t.

TGF

[joe-grow]

Hi Bodom & TGF .... thanks for dropping by again. I have read through both of your logs, and gained a great deal of insight from them. I think I will take a mix of your two suggestions - wait until they look dead or falling off, and clip them.

Thanks for the hit, TGF .... I'm dry, and would enjoy it! That's why I turned to growing - too difficult/risky, low quality, and out too often.

Here are the latest photos of the (hopefully) girls ....

First is a top shot - getting a really large canopy. Judging by the size of the leaves, I'm guessing that it's an indica strain (it's a bag seed grow, for practice).

Second is a side shot, showing height, and distance to the T5 lamp.

[joe-grow]

Ok, I've managed to make some time to work on the new cabinet. With the exception of the metal flakes on all around (from drilling), everything seems to be going pretty good. I picked up some elbow vents, eye hooks, a dryer vent, and a desk wire cover.

So far, I've drilled two 4-1/8" holes - one in the top of the cabinet, and one in the top shelf. I've also drilled one 2-3/8" hole in the top shelf. In addition to those major holes, I've drilled about ten other holes for screws and bolts to hold up equipment.

I need to go back to the hardware store and pick up two more duct clamps and one more desk wire cover. Once I have those, I'll need to drill one more 2-3/8" hole in the top right of the back of the cabinet, to allow the power cable to exit the cabinet. I need the clamps for the venting from the elbow on the bottom of the shelf, to the filter. I also need to install four more eye hooks. These will support the main light, and the T5, when I hang it vertically, for side coverage during flowering.

I will need to line the bottom portion with mylar. This will help to close up the shelf bracket holes, which could let in light during my 'night' hours. I will also need to cut a hole in the bottom of the cabinet for an air intake vent. I picked up some filter material, which I am hoping will minimize the light coming in from this vent. I will place the filter material between the vent cover and the cabinet. It will be stored in a utility room, so I'm not too worried about light getting into the room.

I've attached some photos of the work completed so far. The first is the dryer vent on the top of the cabinet. It was a little tight to get into the hole I drilled, but with some coercion, I managed to get it in the hole. The second is the cabinet closed. The third is the cabinet open. And the fourth is a close up of the equipment I installed so far. Unfortunately, the vent is covering up the desk wire cover, I used for the power from the ballast to the light. I'll probably need to tape that up, after all my cables are in place, to minimize the light.

[lebeef]

Hey man, I noticed that you must have had quite a bit of money to put into this!! I did the same thing on my first grow and because I did I had great results! That along with doing my homework really helped. I more than made all my money back. Anyway, good luck............oh, and I dont mean made my money back selling what I grew, I mean the money I saved smoking my own!:thumbsup:

[joe-grow]

Hi lebeef - I don't have a bottomless bank account, but I have committed to spending what it takes to produce some decent results. I would have really liked to go for one of those complete systems, you just plug it in, and add seeds, so to speak. Those were upwards of $3000, and a lot higher if you wanted to go for the flowering and vegetative chambers. My goal is to have two cabinets going at one time, with one being the cloning/vegetative and the other flowering. For now, this new one will serve as the flowering and vegetative, but eventually become the flowering. After assembling all of this, I found that swapping the lights would be too much of a pain for each cycle. I hope to make the money back, as you pointed out - in money I'm not spending on buying weed. My goal for this first grow is two ounces. That's should cover about a third of what I've put out so far.

I've attached an updated photo of the cabinet. This one has everything installed except the mylar and the fan. I'm still struggling with where to mount the fan. Once I get that fan mounted, I'm going to try to go into flowering within the next week, and move the plants in. Hopefully, adding the T5 lamp to the side will help mitigate the absence of mylar.

Speaking of plants - they are growing really well. The leader has a stem of almost 1/4" in diameter. There are new leaves every morning. They range from 9 to 11" in height. All have at least five nodes.

[CCIE]

Hello Joe-Grow, I'm a fellow neophyte midway through his own first grow and log. I've popped by to say, firstly, excellent start and setup!
Secondly I'd like to ask a question about your cabinet. How's sound transference though the metal? I bought the particle board model partly because I imagined it'd dampen fan noise. Has it been an issue, or is the steel shell less resonant than I'd thought?

[joe-grow]

Hi CCIE ... thanks for the kudos. To answer your question, the cabinet is not very good for soundproofing the exhaust fan. I bought particle board first, as well, for sound and reflective surface. However, I could not find one that was both wide and deep enough for my gear. The cabinet was a change of direction from my original plan of getting a hydrohut. Availablity of the hut made me change directions, since I had already started. The cabinet is stored in a utility room. So, for now, I intend to say that the noise is just the HVAC.

Status update on the cabinet - it's up and running. However, I hit a small snag. The HPS system would not power up. According to the instructions, it will not power up if the bulb or the wiring are bad. Well, I checked the wiring for over an hour, and could not come up with anything. The first hood didn't work when tested at the store either. I suspect this one is faulty as well. I didn't like it much - thought it was pretty cheap. I think I'll take this one back, and pick up a Hydro Farm hood. After this amount of time, I will probably have to eat the cost of this one.

To compensate, I installed the T5 lamp at the top for now. The lamp I have uses 4 - 24" cool tubes, 6500K. If I can not get to the hydro shop beforehand, I may have to start flowering with what I have. My question is whether I'll produce anything? I've seen another post where someone is going through their whole grow cycle with the T5 lamps. However, I believe they used a mixture of cool and warm bulbs. Will it matter that much, not to have the warm bulbs? They seem to be growing very well now, but I understand that flowering is a whole other process. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Attached are a couple of updated photos. The first is the full cabinet. The second is a close-up of the plants. They are growing fast and consuming a lot of water. I upped their nutrients two nights ago to 2/3 strength. I'm hoping to go to full strength within the next couple days during a water resevoir change. I now have a ppm of ~930 (total).

As tall as they are now, and as thick as their stems are - should I plan to go into flowering soon? It's been over a month since my seeds were first planted in the starter cubes. I understand that after they switch to the flowering stage, that they will continue to grow. I think they average about 13" now, and I could probably handle another 12" or so. They are growing fast though. The second picture was taken around 1AM (about 12 hours ago). I just checked, and they are now within a couple inches of the lamp already.

[faithless]

.

You really should LST those gals, you can tell the light isn't penetrating very far down, or get some side lights. Otherwise, they're pretty and healthy.

.

[Pass That Shit]

Nice grow Joe. :thumbsup: They're looking nice and green. I would remove some of the interior leaves so more light gets into the branches.

[CCIE]

It looks like our grows are more than just chronologically parallel. My own new electronic ballast is refusing to fire bulbs regardless of type or known-good status. I gave up on it and bought a cheap magnetic replacement for this run's flowering stage (which had best arrive soon).

In my case I suspect the ballast's igniter is faulty. Does a proximity voltage meter register power flowing through the bulb when you plug it in?

[joe-grow]

Hi faithless - yes, I think you're right, as close as they are, and as big as the canopy is getting, light is going to be a problem. My plan was to use the T5 lamp for side lighting. However, my HPS decided to not work, so I'm stuck with the T5 until I can get back to the hydro store.

Hi PTS - thanks for the tip. Will cutting out leaves have any adverse effect? I've exchanged a couple messages earlier in this thread about pruning, and it came up about the leaves being important to leave on. Should I LST, as faithless suggested, instead? I think I'm going to try to at least lean them outward to see if that helps. The lower leaves are definitely looking less healthy as time passes.

Hi CCIE - I'm not sure if it's my ballast or not. It did work at the shop before I purchased it. Then again, the whole setup worked before I left the store. I may see if I can get some warm bulbs for the T5 and ride this one out with that. There's another thread of someone using the T5 lamp, even through flowering. I've not tried the proximity voltage meter, since I don't have one. Even if I did, I'm not sure I would know how to use it. :o When I flip the power on the system, I could hear a slight phlit-like sound (think of the penguin or cat from Bloom County). If the holiday guests don't get too demanding, or stay too long, I am going to try to make it to the hydro shop this weekend for mylar and replacement parts for the HPS. I hope you can get yours working soon! How many weeks are you into your grow?

By this weekend, I plan to change the water, up the nutrients to full strength, and switch to the 12/12 cycle. They are growing very fast now. I've read that using aeroponics, and T5 lamps would cause accelerated growth, but in the last two weeks, it's been amazing. They have tripled sized and leaf/node growth.

Attached is today's photo. Thanks for dropping by. :)

[CCIE]

Howdy Joe-grow - for the sake of streamlining I'll answer the question you asked in my old cab thread here.
(I moved my active log to http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=84094 The older one's been relegated to just a cabinet description.)

The cabinet is a standard Lowes C22 46" wide, 20" deep, 6-foot model, and is the cheaper version of the one Jamstigator used when making his iconic original. There are pictures of his in this thread, 15th post: http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=86903

Lowes isn't the only store that carries them. A "C22 cabinet" Google search shows numerous regional and internet suppliers. Fan noise outside the cabinet is muted but audible - about equal to a well-ventilated computer with an open case. Be warned that the packed unit is herniatingly heavy. I've been a serious weightlifter for 15 years, and carrying that box through the twists of my house left my knees buckling.

As for your Phhhlit-ing ballast, I say buy the guests some movie tickets and sneak off to the shop to get it working. :dance:
I've got my own replacement working, and the light penetration is amazing! I think the fellow who grows with T-5 only has 12-16 lights arrayed all around his grow space.

As for which week I'm in, I suppose week 4 since that's when I actually managed to grow a plant over 2", but I'd been trying since the end of September. :o

[joe-grow]

Hi CCIE ... Thanks for the response here. I would have gone to check your thread, but thanks all the same. I knew you had started another grow thread, but my question was specific to your grow box. That's why I posted there.

I looked around at my local Lowes, but could not find a cabinet 20" deep. That's why I went for the office supply cabinet. :( I'll just have to make due with this one for a while. The cost of this 'project' has approached $1500, and I've yet to show anything for my effort. It was tough getting my wife to buy into the idea at $1000 estimated costs.

I know what you mean about heavy. Now, I've not been the weightlifter you have. At least not in the last decade. But, I believe it's safe to say that my cabinet was pretty damn heavy. Fortunately, I had someone help me carry it to the basement. Delivery guy left it at the door. The first cabinet, which was that fantastic particle board, was even heavier, and that was at least 50% smaller. I can only imagine what yours must have felt like.

It seems that things are getting worse. I was never able to get away from the holiday guests, and visit my local hydro shop. Subsequently, I was not able to replace my Phhhit-ing ballast. As a temporary measure, I've lined the cabinet with a reflective insulation, Reflectix.

CCIE, you've been growing a little longer than I have. I started around mid-October. I had great success at first, but things are looking like trouble now. My plants grew very quickly, once they shed their shells. Now, I'm not sure if I have lighting deficiencies, bugs, or nutrient amount problems.

I went to full nutrients last Wednesday, along with a new supply of water. In addition, I switched to flowering schedule (12/12). The plants were getting too big, and I was worried I'd run out of cabinet height. Since I've switched, one of them seems determined to outgrow the cabinet. So far, no flowers, and no gender indications.

The first photo is all the plants in their current environment. I attempted to spread them out with wire ties, as was sorta suggested by faithless with the LST comment. I thought that might help get some more light to the lower leaves. You can also notice a lot of drooping branches, and dying leaves.

The second photo is a close up of the center of the plants. I still seem to have some healthy looking leaves & stems. The bad ones are increasing, though. :(

The third photos is a close up of the tallest plant. It has some pieces missing from it. I'm not sure if this is getting too close to the T5 lamp, or if I have bugs.

Sorry about the delay in updating this. I really haven't had much progress, except height and some more branches. I expect to see some flowers within the next week. I sure hope there is at least two females out of the four plants.

[TheKidThatLovesMary]

what happened to Zandor?? whats the story behind that did he get robbed because somone got his info. through his computer or somthing?

[joe-grow]

I had heard through his Podcast, or read it one of his postings about someone stealing his stash. I think that he believed the perpetrators obtained their information through his online activities. I'd have to go back and research a bit to get the exact details. I'm pretty sure you could find something if you wanted more detail, by searching on here.

[CCIE]

I'm sorry to hear things have hit a snag. Perhaps its time to organize a Cannabis.com picket of the hydro store until they give you something that works.
:cursing:

Regarding the stretching and drooping, I hesitate to make suggestions given my track record, but the plants' issues look to my inexpert eye like lack of light and improper spectrum for flowering. I think Faithless meant for you to bend the plants literally horizontal, halving their height or more. Even thick stems'll take more flexing than I thought possible before trying. Below is one of mine that I'm re-training after a cat attack. Two days ago that stem was bent to nearly that angle in the opposite direction.
[attachment=o103595]


Brainstorming(drizzling) now...

I think if limited to one overhead T5 fixture I'd make a screen, find the point below which the stems can't be easily flexed, place pegs in the walls there, pull all the plants over with a hooked hand, put the screen in place, then arrange the plants under it to form a flat, filled canopy. Eyeballing the first picture, if our plants are similarly flexible I'll bet a 2" mesh screen at the level of the scribble would let you weave everything to the same height.
[attachment=o103598]

Then visit the hydro guy and pummel him with your faulty ballast until he coughs up a working HPS. :D Seriously, that light is liquid schwarz. This last week mine have been bent, chewed, squeezed and pruned, but they're greener than ever.

I think one of the older growers said switching to 12/12 before alternating nodes or preflowers appear is a stressor. Maybe that's delaying maturity? :confused:

[TheKidThatLovesMary]

Thanks for the info joe-grow and good luck with your grow :thumbsup:

[joe-grow]

Hi CCIE .... thanks for the suggestions. I took your advice and dragged my lazy butt to the shop to get my light replaced. It turned out to be the bulb. I was very careful with it, and hadn't even tried it until I needed it for flowering. I was told that particular bulb was sensitive. I wasn't sure if he meant that I hurt its feelings. :D So, he was really decent and gave me a replacement bulb, under warranty. The replacement bulb was just a standard 600w HPS. Made the trip worth it. I picked up some GH Kool Bloom while there. I debated about the mylar, but I'd already shelled out about the same cost for the Reflectix, so I left it for next time.

Lesson learned - have your cabinet ready to go, and all your hardware tested before you need it. This is especially important, if you haven't a shop close by, or you're going through mail order. I didn't think it would be a big deal to hold off on some items until needed, but I'm regretting it now.

I installed the light, and relocated the T5 lamp to the side of the cabinet. I didn't install the screen, as suggested, yet. For one, I'm a bit nervous to try it. For another, I'm not sure I have the skill to install it without doing more damage than good. Tonight I managed to break off a pretty healthy and large fan leaf. I'm not sure if I should trim the whole branch. For now, I just left it.

I also cleaned up the cabinet a bit, securing the Reflectix better. With the addition of the 600w HPS, it is really bright in there now. At first it doesn't come on very bright, but after a minute or so, wow! Hopefully that will give my poor ailing plants what they need to start production of some bud. To help things along, I added about half strength of the Kool Bloom. I should know better - change one thing at a time, and wait for results. Ok, so I'm human, and a little anxious.

After all this stress, I hope they all don't turn out males. That's the one downer - not only do I have to work very hard on this, and wait a while for results, but it may turn out to be for nothing. In any event, I'm amazed I've gotten this far. This attempt was mostly to learn. It's certainly been a lesson in patience.

No pictures today. It's not too pretty in there right now. I want to clean things up a little. I tried tying the plants to spread them apart, but the garden I'm using isn't cooperating. The mesh buckets are coming up, when I try to bend the plant too much. I had to place a bottle on one of them to weigh the thing down. I'll try to get some photos up before the end of the weekend.

Oh, CCIE, I knew what Faithless meant - LST, right? I've read about it around here. I'd love to try it - everyone that does, seems to love the production. I didn't prep enough to do that, both for the cabinet or with learning. I hope to try that for my second grow. What you're talking about is scrogging, right (with the screen)? I've heard that's pretty good too. I think someone you either linked me too, or someone that posted to your thread had mentioned doing that. I'm tired, and forgetting a lot right now. It's been a long day. If only I had something to toke to wrap it up right. Soon.

[joe-grow]

So, I got a chance to get some photos, but so far, they don't tell any good news. I'm afraid that I waited too long to switch to flowering - I let them grow too tall. Two plants had leaves that looked severely burnt. Fortunately, I believe those are the same plants which show signs of being male.

The first photo is of the cabinet with the new lighting arrangement. The remaining ones are close-ups of each of the plants. The first two appear to be showing the sacs that signify males. The second two, I'm not sure. Given that the first two are the fastest growing, and have the longest fan leaves, in addition to what appear to be the pollen sacs, I'm guessing that they are make. The remaining two are shorter in height, and in fan leaves, and haven't shown any of the sacs.

I'm in a bit of a bind now. If I remove the two that I believe are males, and the two remaining do not grow any taller, I should be ok. However, if they grow any taller, I'll have problems with them burning too. The new HPS light has raised the temperature to 80F during the light period, and the humidity has climbed to ~50RH. They consumed about a half gallon of water is only a day.

So .... anyone want to confirm the males for me? Once I've confirmed the males, I'll yank those out. That should create a lot less canopy and allow a lot more light to get to the remaining two. If they remaining two turn out to be females, I'll feel lucky. When I first started with my six seeds, I had figured I'd get at least two females. Hopefully, I wasn't aiming too high.

[Abattoir Dream]

yeh man, hopin for females here.... dunno whether they are males though, too tired lol just woke up... good luck..

[joe-grow]

So today, I made an executive decision and pulled one of my plants. It was tough, and I don't just mean getting the roots out of the basket. After spending this amount of time looking after these things, from their start to now, I guess I got a little attached. I had to take him out, to save the remaining crop. I was pretty sure it was a male, given the amount of tiny sacs I noticed. The remaining three aren't clear yet. One more might be a male. There's no signs either way from the remaining two.

The remaining plants are looking good and bad. The ones that have grown the tallest are the ones currently getting the most leaves burned. I can't raise the HPS lamp any higher, and I can't bend the plants any more out of the way. I would really appreciate any suggesting on how to keep them from frying. The temperature in the cabinet has risen, but only 5 to 10 degrees F. It is usually around 75 to 80 F in there now. They are gulping down over a half a gallon a water a day now. I'm not sure if I should trim them down, or if that would make things worse. The addition of the HPS and moving the T5 to side lighting has improved the plants which fall below about 12" from the HPS. What about the fried leaves? Should I trim them off, or leave them for any benefit to the remaining plant?

I found a tip from Pass That Shit on his grow log, about using your hand to sample the effect of the lamp. It does get pretty warm within the first 12" under the HPS lamp. But the cabinet overall is pretty cool, considering all that heat right under the HPS lamp. I guess the circulation is working pretty good. I think I should have switched to flowering sooner, before they got so tall.

Oh, and any suggestions on what to do with my exiled plant? Should I just wrap it up and toss it in the garbage? How do people dispose of such material? I can't imagine anyone digging through the garbage, but I'd rather be safe, than busted.

[CCIE]

I hadn't reckoned with the aeroponic system's fragility when suggesting bending the plants in half. The only way I can see to avoid burning is still to squash 'em horizontal, but how to do that if it upends the mesh buckets eludes me. Do you have someone local who can hold the stem steady while you lower a screen from above? It's not truly full-on SCRoG, but those overachievers look like they're itching to hit 6 feet otherwise. Perhaps start a thread in the plant problems forum; several of the gurus hang out there consistently and might have an idea.

Board consensus as far as I've read is to leave leaves be unless they are completely dead. I clipped foliage off of mine that a cat had mangled, and I'm still not sure it was wise.

Don't pitch the male! Chop him up, run him through a coffee grinder and cook him for a couple hours with 1/2 cup butter in a 200-degree oven. Make half a pan of brownies with the butter, eat it one sitting and report the results. I wanted to try it myself, but they all turned female ...which may have been an act of self preservation after seeing me standing over them with a stick of butter and a glint in my eye.

[joe-grow]

Hey CCIE, that was just what I needed, a good laugh. The thought of you standing there with a stick of butter was pretty funny.

Yeah, the garden turned out to be inconvenient for a couple reasons. The dimensions were such that I couldn't use the narrow cabinet I bought first. The baskets are another. Care and feeding isn't the easiest either. I need to risk damaging leaves and or stems to get my gallon jug close enough to the access hole. To remove the cover on the access hole, I need to pull the plug too (no power button). Otherwise water, water everywhere.

My next grow will be in a aeroponics garden I make myself. This was mainly to get me started, and give me an idea of how they work. I've seen enough plans on here to get me going with my own design. If I stick with these same bag seeds, I may go with SCRoG or LST since, as you pointed out, they have an affection for growing tall. As for this time, I really don't have anyone to assist with making the changes you suggest. This is top secret, except for the thousands of readers on this board. :cool: Nobody in real life knows about this. This was to minimize someone using it against me, or leading to a break in.

The other suspected male is also the same one getting fried before it's time, due to it's height. The remaining two seem short enough to take the heat. They'd better turn out to be female, or I might be trying your baking suggestion, CCIE. I've read many posts on here about making some use out of the males. I can't say that I buy into the thought of getting anything from them. Biologically, they don't have that much THC. Catching them early means that they haven't developed much in the flower department (hopefully) either. But given my lack of something to smoke, and how long it'll take to get another crop going, I might be tempted. I appreciate the suggestion. I just don't think I've gotten that desperate yet.

I don't think I'll need to stand over the remaining plants with a stick of butter. I think snapping my latex gloves might scare them into the correct gender. :)

[CCIE]

"As for this time, I really don't have anyone to assist with making the changes you suggest. "

The wife!

Earlier you mentioned having to talk the missus into agreeing to the expenditure. Shanghai her into assistant gardener duty and bend those willful watusis into submission.

...And I'm not too sure about your encouragement plan - whenever I've done it, snapping a latex glove has caused females to flee, not appear. :angelsmiley:

[joe-grow]

You caught me, CCIE, there is a Mrs. Grow at home. However, she's not fond of the whole grow thing. In fact, she's not Mrs. Grow at all ... she kept her maiden name, Mrs. Legal Equals Moral. That's a whole other story. If I really needed the help, I think she would. However, I'm worried that given her lack of knowledge or interest, her efforts might hinder operations. In any event - with the T5 now shining upon the sides of my plants, do you think it's necessary for this grow?

Now that there are only three, there seems to be a whole lot more room. And with the some of the leaves frying, there's a lot smaller canopy overall. :o

I'm now in day 13 of flowering, and the emerging flowers aren't looking very healthy. Last night I did a full water change and switched to the full strength flowering nutrients, according to the GH bottle. I also added half strength Kool Bloom, and a little SUPERthrive. There are some leaves that appear to be returning to life. Perhaps they were scared into production after what I did with their brother. I probably should have waited for some pre-flowers. However, they were getting way too tall. From what I had read, right up until after I went to flowering, I thought you could go into flowering any time you damn well pleased. Then, I read that you need to wait for these 'pre-flowers'. Oh, well, it's just practice, I keep telling myself. Meanwhile, I search for a new dealer to hook me up while I learn how not to kill cannabis plants.

Yeah, CCIE, I had not thought about other implications of snapping a latex glove in front of females. Perhaps that's why my wife always disappears when I get ready to tend to my plants.

So, I've attached some more photos before I fry them all completely. The first is a family photo of the bunch. The really tall one in the far right corner is the one who's been frying under the new lamp. You might note some things hanging from stems that used to be leaves. That's the one I first suspected was a male. When I pulled the other one out, perhaps he dropped his sacs in hopes I would not come after it next. The other two have not shown any signs of maleness yet. Starting from the tall one in the far right, and working counter-clockwise, I've included close ups of each of the plants. I tried touching these up a bit, by reducing the temperature and increasing the clarity. So, if the colors look a bit off, that was me. My eyes haven't yet adjusted from being under the HPS, so everything looks funky right now.

I'm off to catch up on your thread CCIE. I've read parts, when I get a free moment. It's nice to follow someone else that's almost as lost as I am. Fortunately, I don't have the feline issues you do. If I did, fear of owner or not, I believe they would be pushing up daisies.

[joe-grow]

Three weeks now, and now there's some flowers showing in several spots. I suppose the example I made of their brother has left an impression on the rest. The rest of my plants appear to be turned females. I'm very excited, having out done my goal of two plants to harvest. Hopefully, I can manage to see these girls to harvest.

I've managed to tied down some of the girls. One didn't get into the whole bondage thing very much. She got all bent over the idea. Yep, I creased the main stem on my tallest plant. So, I've learned that these things should be taken slowly, and bending should be done gradually.

Currently, I'm on the GH 3 part Flora (plus Kool Bloom), using the 'Blooming and Ripening' mixture recipe. It appears that the plants are taking up the nutrients pretty quick. After the last reservoir change, ppm was around 1350. Now it's around 1050. I'm not sure about adding nutrients mid-reservoir change, but should I just add the recipe to a gallon jug and add that along with my daily water adds?

My schedule right now is 12/12. The light period runs from 6PM to 6AM. I generally check on them between 6PM and 8PM. During my check up, I'll add water (about 3/4 gallon now), check the ppm and pH, and try to tie them apart. I keep 3 - 1 gallon jugs on standby for filling. Tonight, I think I will mix one of them with the nutrient mixture and add that in with the next water add.

Attached are updated photos. Similar fashion as the last post - one overall, and three close-ups, starting with the one in the far right of the overall photo, and working clockwise in the photo (I must be dyslexic - I've mentioned the opposite direction last couple times, I think).

[CCIE]

Seems like things are looking up for both of us.

After eyeballing those flowers, I think you might be cutting stems before even my skunk is done. :jointsmile:
Weird idea: could the HPS fixture be hung ~20 degrees lower on the T5-fixture-side to allow light to reach the tall plant's top buds?

[joe-grow]

Hi CCIE ... thanks for the suggestion. I tried the angle, but it appeared to be a little too dangerous (heat) for more of the plant, than just keeping the light as high as possible. Instead, I've added some string, leaning the stems a little better under the HPS lamp. I believe I have all bud sights under the lamp now. Next set of photos should depict that.

Not sure when to expect to be cutting down my crop. It would be schweet to be trimming for the holidays. I think it will be more like late January or early February. How soon do you think you'll be harvesting?

[invision]

hey joe you want to flower atleast 7 weeks from the start of flower you have 4 weeks left and it takes about 5-6 weeks to really see bud formation, most of the final wieght is done in weeks 7 and 8 so at the moment you would have just wasted your time.

she got to tall it happens next time LST from the start and you will get better results.

[StoneyMike]

Joe,

This is also a first time grow for me and ironically enough we started at the same time. As of today I am on day 21 of flowering, so close to the same day anyway. I dont seem to be getting the same bud formation as you, but close. These are 8 White Widow females from under a 400W HPS lamp. Hydroponic system in all rockwool medium, water 3 times a day for 30 mins. So far have not really had any problems with yellowing, wilting, bugs, or browning of leaves-lucky so far I guess. They were flowered at 5 weeks or about 12" in height. I am using Vita Link A&B bloom formula as well as Vita Link "buddy" at the moment. Light is currently set to 11/13. Temp in bud chamber ranges from low 60's to low 70's (I am in a cold climate, plants are in outdoor shed-this is basically the best I can do as far as heat). As you can see from the pics the plants are quite bushy, in fact I think growing eigft right out of the gate may have been a bit ambitious. The density and closeness of the plants are blocking most light from reaching lower nodes. I have purchase two additional 105W HPS lights which I paln to hang down on each side of the tubs. This I hope will rectify my light situation.

Anyway, again a first time grower and just don't know, if anyone can see these pictures well enough please let know if you think these plants are where they should be at 21 days flowering. Any comments would be greatly appreciated ( I am like a father with a first born here)!!

[Perp]

Stoneymike: Your plants look real healthy and all, but there is no way they are at 21 days of flowering. You should be seeing developing buds by now and I just don't see any sign of it. Are you sure they are getting at least 12 hours of darkness?

[StoneyMike]

Couple more pics

[StoneyMike]

Perp,

That is exactly what I was thinking. I them set at the moment to 11 light on and 13 light off. If you get up real close they have pistils and very small buds, but they seem to be very slow here. I agree they look very healy but am at a bit of a loss

[joe-grow]

Hi StoneyMike, I'd say be careful with those extra HPS lamps. I've been having trouble with my 600w lamp burning my plants. In fact, I fried three good bud sites two nights ago by getting too close to my lamp. The existing 400w HPS is probably too small for eight plants, from what I've read around here. I thought I was ambitious going for four plants, so now I feel a bit more grounded.

I'm not sure that you should give up hope on those buds appearing. I didn't see any until a few days after I passed three weeks. Now, they are growing all over the place. One thing I've learned about this trial run, is that just when you're about to give up hope, wait a couple days more. One of my seedlings that didn't look like it would ever crack it's seed - is now the tallest one in the bunch, and has the thickest stem.

Some of the photos that you posted look like they were taken in a kitchen. Do you have a place to store these, or is this where they reside? If so, it could be a combination of lack of light during your light period and light leakage during your dark period. Can you describe where the plants normally reside? It's nice to compare notes with another fellow newbie. Check out CCIE's thread, he started around the same time as us.

Invision - thanks for dropping by, and the advice. I guess I was just a little too anxious to see some buds. I'm really starting to see some now. Next photos posted should show some of these nice buds. As I was just saying to Mike, though, I've fried a few bud sites :( I think if I want to continue growing three or four plants in this space, I will need to learn LST.

[CCIE]

Hiya Mike. I'd guess light leakage too, but Joe's took forever for no apparent reason beyond the desire to be contrary. As for my harvest, I'm guessing mid-January for the skunk and early February for the Thais. That's 'early' for both strains, but I'm chasing an experience more akin to Carl Sagan's than Cheech and Chong's.
:abduct:

[StoneyMike]

Thanks for the responses guys. Joe, those pictures were taken in the kitchen because I was changing the water that night. They reside the rest of the time in a gardening shed with black plastic covering the light from the outside and reflective material on the inside. However, I now have a bigger problem. I noticed yesterday morning when I went to check the plants, at approximately 7:20, that the light was turned off (they run from 7:30pm to 7:30am). I thought at the time that possibly I was off a few minutes on my timing. However I went out there this morning at 6:30 to double check and the light had shut off sometime in the night. Timer was set correctly and all other units plugged into the power bar were running. I did some troubleshooting on it and it did come on, but I cannot afford to have this type of problem. It seems to me I must have a problem with the ballast (as I said all other units working fine and the bulb is new) the 400W is not staying on for the duration of the cycle-perfect imiming on this huh. I did the only thing I figured logical and bought a new light, but have to wait a few days for delivery. Now tonight the light has come on as sceduled, so I am at a loss. But I am not about to ruin all time, effort, and expense over a few more pounds. I should get the 2 105's tomorrow and the new 400W by Friday. Have to see if this work out-jeeez I hope. I will keep you guys informed with regular posts and pictures.

CCIE, first thanks for the comments, I am in a bit of a hurry tonight and would like to have checked out your thread, but will check it out and comment next post.

Any thoughts of whether I am dead in the water here would be greatly appreciated.

[Cornelius]

That sucks stoneymike. I think if you can use some kind of light to keep the light cycle constant till your new lights arrive, you could still be ok

also, you can take this time to lightproof your shed.


-p

[StoneyMike]

Damn light keeps shutting off and then comes back on. New lights can't come soon enough.

[joe-grow]

Hey CCIE .... yeah, if I go by Invision's time guide, it'll be about the same time for me, maybe a little earlier. I figure early to mid January I should be cutting down what I haven't fried under the lamp. :o I can't complain too much, there's still a lot of nice bud sites popping up. Now, if I can just hold out until curing can complete. :rastasmoke: I just read about faithless snipping a bud early for a sample. Too bad about those bollocks.

So, today I snapped a few photos. Starting off as usual with an overall shot of my three girls. I decided to mix things up a bit, so they are in reverse order. The next one is the shortest of the bunch. It's also the one with the least amount of burns. I'm starting to see a connection here.

The next photo shows a nicely forming bud site on the next plant. The last one shows the crispy remains of several once-nice bud sites. They 'were' the biggest bud sites of all the plants. Anyone know if I should trim any of this away. I'm not sure if I should leave it as an example to the remaining plants - sort of a this is your plant .... this is your plant up against a 600w HPS bulb ..... any survivors, ummm, I mean questions?

I skipped a day feeding. I know, bad gardener. Surprisingly, they took up less nutrients - ppm level hardly changed during the extra time. This time I went with straight water. They are consuming around 3/4 to 1 gallon of water a day.

[joe-grow]

Gotta remember to get high AFTER posting ..... here are the photos .....

[Pass That Shit]

Nice plants Joe. :joint1:

[joe-grow]

Thanks PTS for dropping by, and the compliment.

Just a quick update of the progress, with some photos. Still having some lamp distance problems. I have several bud sites showing up now. I'm just going to hope for the best - that enough lower sites will develop. The shortest plant seems to be doing very well. A little underdeveloped, but nothing burnt so far.

I'm feeding about every other gallon with nutrients mixed in. Water consumption is running between 1/2 gallon and 1 gallon. A lot more leaves are starting to die off. I'm presuming that is the plant just consuming the stored nutrients from these dying bits.

[CCIE]

Howdy - are the flowers connecting yet? Resist the urge to sample this early if you mean to smoke it. The amount I minced, extracted and baked yesterday was about equal to all the greenery visible in the third picture above, and it was only able to provide a single strong high for two people. OK, really strong, but still.

[invision]

joe on your next grow every single day switch all the plants around in a different order and turn them around 50 degrees, this keeps all plants the same height, and gets light to every branch.

if you can do it now, take fish line, tie it to something that will make your plant lean over a bit without snapping it, and leave it there the rest of the grow she will recover in a few days and continue to flower.

[joe-grow]

Hi CCIE, flowers on two plants have started to connect. It's tough getting photos in those areas. I haven't sampled anything yet. :weedpoke: I don't want to try anything until I start flushing out the nutrients. I've read that it can have a harsh taste to sample while using full strength nutrients. I have resorted to picking up some small supplies from a local source. It is frustrating having to pay these kind of prices for herbs when I have this growing right here. Soon, soon, I keep telling myself. I figure I should have at least something to sample for the beginning of February. I'll keep the bulk of it to cure until Spring.

Last couple days, water consumption has dropped to about a quart/day. The nutrient consumption also appears to have dropped, requiring replenishing about every four days.

I've attached photos from Christmas/Flowering day 32. The pistils are getting very large, and several spots have started to clump together. I am at about 4.5 weeks. I believe you need to flush during the last two weeks. If I am to flower for 8 weeks, that would give me 1.5 weeks of feeding. I will change the water one more time around then, and replace with the FloraKleen.

invision, that's a good suggestion. I was thinking of using a new system next grow, perhaps individual growing planters, instead of the shared one I use now. That would allow me to better adjust the plants as you suggest. There are many things which I learned from this time around. One is that I may need a larger flowering area. I may go back and pick up the HydroHut. The cabinet has the depth for the physical planter I'm using, but there's just little room to work around the plants or lean them over. I have tried to pull over the plants to lean lower, but have either creased the stem or caused the netted planter to pull up from the planter, exposing the top of the basket.

[joe-grow]

So, I fell victim to overeagerness - I sampled. Totally not worth it. I clipped a branch with a couple buds, which appeared to be getting fried from the lamp anyway. There was still some green bud on the branch, so it wasn't completely fried. Anyway, it was New Years Eve, and I was out of bud, and there it was just looking at me ... saying .... smoke me. It turned out to be a waste. After long attempts at trying to dry it in the microwave and then finally trying to vape what I got out of it, I got nothing, zip.

Another lesson learned, no sampling.

Attached are a few bud shots, most of which are not burned. It's starting to fill in in several places. I'm still frying about the top quarter of two of the plants. I am going to have to do some redesign of the cabinet for the next grow. I noticed a shot of the cabinet in invision's grow, and got an idea - the glass shelf. I think I have an old one sitting around here somewhere. I'm hoping that I can fit it in the cabinet as invision did, to rest the lamp on top of. I am also going to review other lighting options, perhaps a cooled light.

Back to patiently awaiting my crop to get done.

[invision]

hey joe dont get to discouraged man alot of people dont even get this close on the 1st attempt. i sampled my 1st grow too and it sucked until i harvested the whole plant and cured it.



go to hardware store and ask for a glass cutter, they are no more than 5 dollars and measure out your cab and cut the glass to fit, it cuts very easy as quick as a razor blade really.

thin glass is what you want, the thinner the better.

[joe-grow]

Hi invision, thanks for the glass cutter tip! I haven't located the shelves yet, but seem to recall they were close to what would fit in my existing cabinet. There were about 1/8" thick, if I recall correctly. Think that will be thin enough? They originally were meant to be used as shelves in another cabinet (furniture, not a grow cabinet).

I'm pleased with how far I've come. All of the plants could have turned out male, or I could have killed them off completely by now. Given that this was bag seed, there was little to know ahead of time, such as typical height.

Next time, I will definitely research scrog or lst for the next grow, even with the changes to the cabinet. From what I've seen, this should help the biggest problem I seemed to have this time around - plants way too close to the lamp. Plus, as an added benefit, the crops from either method seem to be increased.

I do tend to be hard on myself, but in a productive way. It helps motivate me to get better. It looks like I should see at least an ounce, maybe two (not fried) from this crop. If that is the case, and there's at least a halfway decent buzz from the finished product, I will be very grateful. I'm amazed I've gotten this far.

I've learned a lot this time and I hope to get the next one started soon. I figure I'll start my next seedlings during week eight of these plants flowering schedule. Estimating about two weeks before they will need to get into the cabinet, that should give me enough time to dry out this crop.

Now, the question I face .... do I try with the purchased seeds, or stick with the bag seed for the next grow. I'm tempted to try the new seeds, since I've not knowingly tried any of the breeds I have acquired. I picked up some Blueberry, White Widow, and Northern Lights #5.

[invision]

well im on my 2nd grow, i used again bagseed just incase and im glad i did. things got a little to warm on me and had to adjust things here and there but everything is ok at the moment.

i figured if i could get this grow to harvest as well then i can buy some real seeds without the worry of beating up the plants too bad, i myself was also looking into NL#5 and WhiteWidow, and i also considered Cinderella 99 by Joey Seeds.

LST just seems to be the best way to grow for my situation, height really isnt a issue with me as i have about 35" of space right to my glass and with LST this will take a long veg to make them grow so big. my plants now are about 10-12in high LST'ed so i better flower soon.

[joe-grow]

Here's my update, 50 days into flowering. Burn coverage is still about the same. I believe I've saved one of the branches/bud sites, by tying it down lower (you might notice it coming across the middle of photo 1, with a string going to the left). I am going to see what else I might be able to tie down.

Last time I tried it, I didn't tie it town far enough, and it got burnt worse. That's part of the problem of why I haven't tied them down better to date - sometimes, I have to bend them much further right off the bat, then they are comfortable bending. One spot, I wound up bending the main stem on the far right plant too far, and she bent. She's since healed the spot (a little fatter there than elsewhere), but it freaked me out about doing it too much again.

invision - I think you have a point there, wait till I have a good grow with the bagseed before I go for the good ones. Your second grow is looking good so far. I finally caught up with that one. Your first one was great! I hope I can yeild at least that much!

Below, I have posted the latest photos of my girls, 50 days and going (83 days overall). The first is all of them posing for me. So far, the one in the best shape, and building the most filled in bud, is the shy one on the far left. I sneaked in and caught a shot of the main bud site in the second photo. Finally, I have a shot of a really shy bud. This one is hiding in the rear right of the cab, right under the filter. The bulk of this bud's mom is burnt (top), so it's nice to see something developing at all on this poor stressed girl. But, this bud has got some of the most crystals showing so far.

Enjoy the weekend, I am about to kick mine off right (no, not an early sample, just something from a friend).

[joe-grow]

Well, I should be in the home stretch for the flowering of this first grow. As such, I cleaned out my reservoir and filled it with plain water, no nutrients or flushing agents. I plan to leave this in place, topping off as necessary, for the next week to week and a half. After that, I will begin daily reservoir replacements, using GH FloraKleen.

I have also pruned much of the plant now. I finally picked up some gardening tools in anticipation of harvesting. I picked up a small pruning tool, as well as something to cut down those big stalks when it's time.

I've cleared out most of the dead plant, from burning, or just dead leaves. I'm not sure if it's just because I cleared away all the bad looking parts or if the plants responded well to the trim, but all the girls are looking a bit better. In addition to trimming, I've tried to bend many of the stems away from the danger zone under the lamp. Finally, to help keep temps down from the HPS lamp, I've started leaving the cabinet doors propped open during the light cycle.

I've attached another overall photo. While this doesn't show very much detail, I think you can make out how they girls are filling out. I am going to try to get in there later today and snap a few shots before the HPS lamp comes on. Hope to have those available for the next post.

[Bodom Children Of]

Lookin' good, Joe.

[CCIE]

Home stretch indeed - and looking like you'll have a healthy bit of bud soon. I too, hopefully.

[joe-grow]

Hey Bodom, thanks for dropping by, and the compliment! I think far away, and in that lighting, they don't look too bad. These current photos may tell a different story.

As promised, I snuck in early to snap a few photos before the 'sun' came up on the girls. They still show some decent buds coming through, such as the first photo. However, the next three should be made into posters -

This is your plant .... this is your plant too close to a 600W HPS lamp. Any questions? :o

[Bodom Children Of]

Damn, sorry to see that.

[joe-grow]

Here we are, almost 9 weeks into flowering now. Buds are getting bigger and dense, and my drooling is almost substituting for water refills.

Currently, I am on water only. In about two days of going with straight water (no nutrients), leaves started turning yellow at an extremely fast rate. In the third photo below, This bud's leaves went past yellow, and into a brown. This was not caused by light burn, but something else. Anyone have a clue what this means? Any input on how they look now would be appreciated.

The runt of the pack is turning out to be the biggest producer. This could be attributed, at least in part, to it's lack of height. The other two just grew too tall and too much was burned as a result. It is looking very white right now. I hope that I didn't start flushing too soon. I started at 8 weeks. Since this is bag seed, I didn't know what to expect. I hoped for an 8 week flowering period. Well, when I hit 8 weeks and knew they weren't ready, I hoped for 10. Now that I'm approaching week 9, and plan to start the next step in flushing (FloraKleen), I hope I wasn't premature.

Attached are some bud shots of some of the nicer looking buds (or at least the easiest to get a decent photo of). The last one isn't a bad looking bud, but it has some strange looking leaves. I figure that the buds are draining their stored nutrients from the leaves, causing the yellowing. But, this particular leave just doesn't look right. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[joe-grow]

Here we are at ten weeks. It's seems like it's been a very long time since I adopted these plants. Since the beginning seedlings were planted, it's been well over three months now. I think I may start my next seedlings next week. This crop is looking worse each day. Hopefully, something will come of it, and provide the proper motivation to continue down this road of self reliance.

Last Friday (1/26), I chopped down one of the branches. I was hoping to have some dried before the Super Bowl. I trimmed them up, and placed them in a dark place to dry until the big game. Periodically, I would check on them. Once, I sampled. Ok, twice. The second time was a big disappointment - I found a seed!

The total weight of what I cut down (shown in first photo) was a little over 22 grams. Yesterday, after five days of drying, it was about 5 grams. The smoke tastes unpleasant, and the high is very mild. After the high wears off, I get this nice headache. The taste is difficult to describe, but it tastes like what I would imagine smoking a fresh plant might taste like. Hopefully, by the game, that will be gone.

The buds are very dry and crumble in your hands. I'm not sure if I did something wrong, but they don't feel like buds I've bought on the street.

Looking over the remaining plants, I have yet to find why a seed has appeared. I suppose I'll have no way of knowing until harvest. I don't think I'm fully aware of what to look for. I found this seed in my grinder, when prepping a sample for vaping.

One plant has a bud that looks downright sickly. It's part of the one that has the most healthy buds, so I'm not sure what to think. All the buds on that plant seem to have some dark leaves. I'll try to get a close up photo to post for comments. Right now, the plants are sleeping.

I'm almost a week into my flushing solution (two weeks flushing overall). Most buds still look very white, with very minimal brown pistils. I know, I should get a microscope to check them out closer. I hope to get one this weekend. Due to certain other circumstances, I may have to chop them down this weekend. I hope something smokable comes of them.

[invision]

hey joe,

you need to cure those buds as i had the same problem, i dried my smoke and rolled one and didnt really get high, i was pissed at all this work for nothing.

so i ignored them and let them cure 3 weeks and the smell and taste was simply amazing to have, the high was right on not too intense but better than what i had on hand.

if they are too crispy add a little lettuce in there for a hour or 2 then remove it they should have sucked some moisture into them but make sure you dont cure them to wet or mold can occur.

dont be disapointed for a 1st grow there is nothing wrong with mistakes along the way i had them myself last and this grow but learning to correct the problem as it starts will give you better knowlegde of how the plant reacts to certain situations.

looks good to me just cure them and then try it out.

[joe-grow]

Great suggestion, invision! I added the lettuce for a couple hours, and voila, I had some moist buds again. I will continue to check for mold, as you suggested. I will also refrain from throwing out these buds, in hopes that the cannabis fairy will come down and bless my buds, making them worth smoking. If not, I suppose I could experiment with some canna-oil or butter or something like that.

I believe that today is the day. In reviewing the buds last night, it seems if I don't chop the plant soon, more buds are going to look like the one in the second photo attached. As you might be able to see, the planter seems to be having trouble holding the plants down - they must be top heavy .... I'm a big fan of top-heavy ladies :D

So, these are probably the last shots of my first plants before they are hung up to dry. I was going to do it last night, but decided to wait one more day. Next shots - the drying stage.

I'm already planning on putting some seeds in starter cubes as soon as I get the current plants hung. Then, I will be making some modifications to the cabinet while they germinate. Any suggested improvements are appreciated! One item I hope to implement is the glass shield like invision's cabinet.

[invision]

wow man yous should be happy eith all that bud gawd damn

[joe-grow]

Thanks invision! I hope to be exclaiming the same thing in a month or so, when it's all dried, and had a little cure time.

Tonight's the night - I plan to chop them down. I may not get to post photos right away .... I need to run some string in that cabinet to hang the buds from. Since I don't have a continually recycling garden in there (yet), I'll just clean out the planter, run some strings from side to side in the cabinet. I'll leave the fans on but unplug the lights.

[joe-grow]

It's done (finally)! It took me about five hours to get it done, but I did it. I harvested my plants. I can't believe it took that long. The major reason was the crispy parts that I needed to trim off. It looks like I harvested a decent amount. I didn't weigh it yet, since I was just too beat. The dry weight it what matters to me anyway. Hopefully, after some curing, these buds will hold me over until the next harvest. :jointsmile:

Now the real patience begins. I've got these buds just hanging there, calling me to drop them in my vaporizer. :weedpoke:

Attached are the harvest photos. I've removed the lights and hung some string in the cabinet. The exhaust fan is running. The first is the overall. What you see is most of what was harvested. There's a few pieces that I couldn't hang, plus the few samples that were snagged during the grow. The next two are closer shots of each row.

I think that one of the seeds must have been a different strain than the other two. One of the plants had significantly less bud, and it was very dark, with a lot less pistols than the other two. It looked almost purple. I'll have to get some close up shots of a couple buds to demonstrate the difference. I'm just too beat to do any more now. I was so excited about finally getting done, that I had to post my results.