Is it really effective to KILL people for killing people? [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

Zohar

10-15-2006, 06:15 AM

No, but it's a very complicated issue. To some people, the death penalty gives them closure (but not everyone). To have their son/daughter's killer given the same fate can feel justifying to some people. Also, some people view it as a way to deter would be criminals, perhaps some people would be less likely to kill when they are facing death?

It's a bit more complicated then that, but I think you get what I'm trying to say.

Garden Knowm

10-15-2006, 06:17 AM

No I don't get it...?

I don;t get it .. at all... not even one tiny bit... killing people.... WTF??

iloveyou

LittLeWinG

10-15-2006, 06:41 AM

No it is not. That's why we dont have the death penalty here, we just let them rot in prison cells.

Inferius

10-15-2006, 07:05 AM

It's not. It is no mans right to take another mans life.
But how is war any different? We're killing each other over IDEAS.
I say we drop therapist-bombs. Big crates full of em'. And some happy pills.
Get it all out in the open. Get the love flowing' again. It might even sink into the ground and ressurect John Lennon.

mrdevious

10-15-2006, 07:35 AM

This is an issue that I've never been able to pick a clear side with. A few things I could say however....

The death penalty isn't really a deterrent, as most law experts and sociologists agree. When somebody makes the decision to murder another person, they're already mentally at the point of no return. This mind-state is one where killing the person has exceeded all else in importance, and whether they face death penalty or life in prison, they don't want to see one any more than the other. But killing this person if obviously important enough that they'd risk one of those punishments, and their desire to carry through with it has already long exceeded their desire to stay out of prison or the gas chamber.

On the claim that the death penalty is hypocritical, I don't really agree. The argument goes that you're telling people that killing is wrong, then turn around and kill somebody. But the laws on murder aren't so clear-cut as "murder is wrong". Rather, under law murder is wrong because it is not state-sanctioned, not the result of a jury unanimously agreeing to it, and imposed on a person who is innocent and has done nothing to deserve the punishment.

chisme

10-15-2006, 08:10 AM

it is, im not really gonna get into it ,

you know what i would allow if i was top dog in the goverment?

say family A, and sum guy killes the dad of the family..................

what id do is tie that person to a chair handcus and everything......and let the family members do what they want with him for 1 hour........

MastaChronic

10-15-2006, 08:23 AM

^pretty good idea, but id like to add that before they got their one hour they had a whole day to figure out what they wanna do to him, and then they are supplied with what they need

chisme

10-15-2006, 08:37 AM

yeah really hurt the fucker!! like a fucking cheese wire bolt cutters rubber mallet screw driver and pliers. nuff said

buddymyfriend

10-15-2006, 09:49 AM

An eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth.

johnnyAKABob

10-15-2006, 09:52 AM

An eye for an eye, a tooth for tooth.

but then surely, if someone gets killed, then the murderer gets killed by the executioner (sp?), that makes the executioner a murderer, so then he has to be killed etc etc and it keeps going in a circle

buddymyfriend

10-15-2006, 10:02 AM

but then surely, if someone gets killed, then the murderer gets killed by the executioner (sp?), that makes the executioner a murderer, so then he has to be killed etc etc and it keeps going in a circle

No, If someone commits murder they should fall to the same fate. That being said in my opinion that doesnt make the excutioner a murderer. Put it this way if someone killed one of your loved ones, your telling me you wouldnt want them to meet the same fate? I know for sure I would, so be it if I have blood on my hands. An eye for an eye.

Just my :twocents:

Buddy

johnnyAKABob

10-15-2006, 10:08 AM

No, If someone commits murder they should fall to the same fate. That being said in my opinion that doesnt make the excutioner a murderer. Put it this way if someone killed one of your loved ones, your telling me you wouldnt want them to meet the same fate? I know for sure I would, so be it if I have blood on my hands. An eye for an eye.

Just my :twocents:

Buddy

the simple definition of murder is "kill intentionally and with premeditation", which technically makes the executioner a murderer. personally i wouldnt want someone who murdered a loved one killed, i would want them maimed and scarred for life so they had to live with everone knowing what they did

buddymyfriend

10-15-2006, 10:11 AM

the simple definition of murder is "kill intentionally and with premeditation", which technically makes the executioner a murderer. personally i wouldnt want someone who murdered a loved one killed, i would want them maimed and scarred for life so they had to live with everone knowing what they did

And what would that teach them and would that stop them from commiting the same act again? I think not! Murderers, rapists, paedophiles etc should all face the death penalty! They dont deserve to breath the air given to them and certainly dont deserve the life they've been given.

Peace

Buddy

jamstigator

10-15-2006, 10:28 AM

We don't have laws to exact revenge for misdeeds. We have laws to protect the law-abiding. An eye for an eye just leads to a world full of blind people.

That said, I'm not really against the death penalty for the most heinous of offenses, in principle. I'm against the death penalty because it costs the taxpayers more to kill someone than to just lock them away forever. I don't think we should execute anyone at all though unless the evidence against them is absolutely ironclad, backed up by video and DNA preferably, because once you kill someone you can't take it back if it was an error, and 'oops, sorry, it was just an innocent mistake' doesnt cut it as an excuse.

Wesley Pipes

10-15-2006, 11:37 AM

Those guys killed.. so we are going to kill to end the killing?

I am struggling with this... is this insane??

please
help..

iloveyou

it's clear that no-one you care for has ever been murdered by another human being, otherwise i'm sure you'd agree with the death penalty, i only wish they still had it in the UK.

Breukelen advocaat

10-15-2006, 11:45 AM

The most obvious advantage to the death penalty is that the person receiving it will never have the opportunity to kill again. It also saves the taxpayers money unless, of course, there are legal expenses associated with finalizing the sentence and appeal(s). Letting theM "rot" isn't so realistic, since many people in jail actually have a nice life compared with their victim(s) and their families.

johnnyAKABob

10-15-2006, 12:40 PM

it's clear that no-one you care for has ever been murdered by another human being, otherwise i'm sure you'd agree with the death penalty, i only wish they still had it in the UK.

there is the death penalty in the UK still technically, but only for treason. in theory you could be hung for putting a postage stamp on upside down.

Wesley Pipes

10-15-2006, 12:58 PM

there is the death penalty in the UK still technically, but only for treason. in theory you could be hung for putting a postage stamp on upside down.

lol thats nice to know :).... but of no help whatsoever :p

psychoactive

10-15-2006, 01:04 PM

death is not a punishment.

fasterspider

10-15-2006, 01:13 PM

Not enough people are killed every day and the world is over populating quickly. They need to let me loose so I can clean out the cities of the undesireables starting with the crack heads and working my way up the corporate ladder to the establishment killing any and all that look at me sideways.
Capitol punishment is a joke in this country letting people sit on death row for too long. If I had it my way, the death chambers would be rolling at an unprecidented level rolling people in and bodies out like there was no tomorrow.
Death to the establishment and any who oppose me.

Garden Knowm

10-15-2006, 06:21 PM

it's clear that no-one you care for has ever been murdered by another human being, otherwise i'm sure you'd agree with the death penalty, i only wish they still had it in the UK.

Many many many loved ones of mine have transitioned at the hands of other men...

And the ripple of pain is excruciating and I would not wish it upon anyone.

NOT on ANYONE

If those who have killed are killed.. then the ripple continues..

Everybody has a mother, father, sister, daughter..

Should the ripple of pain continue?.

Should it spread ? JUST because I hurt.. should others hurt.. ?

IS this justice? LOL loooooooooooooove

iloveyou

Wesley Pipes

10-15-2006, 06:43 PM

Many many many loved ones of mine have transitioned at the hands of other men...

And the ripple of pain is excruciating and I would not wish it upon anyone.

NOT on ANYONE

If those who have killed are killed.. then the ripple continues..

Everybody has a mother, father, sister, daughter..

Should the ripple of pain continue?.

Should it spread ? JUST because I hurt.. should others hurt.. ?

IS this justice? LOL loooooooooooooove

iloveyou

ok so was wrong, sorry :o

aaaaaaaaaand i suppose u have a point there, i wouldn't wish that on anyone....

but... if death is not a suitable punishment, what is?

is allowing a somewhat comfortable lifestyle in a prison a suitable punishment?
sure they have to stay there for years upon years or until they die... but they dont have to work or earn money, they don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from and they don't have to worry about not having a roof over their heads... most prisons nowadays even have sattelite TV..... I don't even have sattelite TV and we're the ones paying for it with our tax dollars/pounds.

Many ppl who do get released don't wanna live on the outside, they have become so acustomed to life inside that they can't survive on the outside....

so what is a suitable punishment? (and please no-body say torture cuz u and me both know it aint ever gonna.. happen in most of our countries atleast)

Professor Dan K.

10-15-2006, 06:48 PM

what do you suppose we do with those murderers? the only way i can see it being effective is to lock them up until they die, no chance at getting out. if not, and they do have a chance to get out, some of those people WILL commit the crime again, and that alone would continue the ripple of pain you speak of.

would you rather have more people continue to feel like you would at the hands of this murderer? or have he who killed your loved one, put to death? if he is put to death then i dont see how the ripple of pain can continue. perhaps on to his family? im sorry, if he killed someone he should be punished, i would think that being in prison for the rest of my life and death would be comparable because what are you going to accomplish in prison? nothing. what are you going to accomplish in death? nothing...

Oneironaut

10-15-2006, 07:33 PM

I don't think it's justified to kill anybody unless they present a clear immediate threat to someone. Like, if somebody is lunging at you with a knife intending to kill you, it's okay to shoot him in the face.

What should we do with violent criminals? Well, if we don't want to just propagate more violence, we shouldn't kill them, and on the other hand we shouldn't just sit around doing nothing. The point of any punishment, I think, should be primarily to try to turn the criminal mind into a non-criminal mind, by psychological rehabilitation if necessary.

Locking up violent criminals into cages doesn't really help society, especially when they're often let back into society after several years of incarceration that just made them angrier and more psychologically imbalanced as their emotional needs were completely ignored in the cold heartless environment of the prison. That can only make things much, much worse.

The best way to prevent murder, I think, is firstly by combatting social conditions like poverty and homelessness which drive people to violence, secondly by providing free psychological care to mentally unbalanced individuals, and thirdly by distributing ganja as much as possible so people chill the fuck out.

Wesley Pipes

10-15-2006, 07:38 PM

I don't think it's justified to kill anybody unless they present a clear immediate threat to someone. Like, if somebody is lunging at you with a knife intending to kill you, it's okay to shoot him in the face.

sorry man i just have to point out... i dont know many people who will rush u with a knife if u got a gun in your hand lol ( and i know a few psychopaths) :p

MegaOctane12

10-15-2006, 09:01 PM

A rational society would have some purpose for people in prison. The fact of the matter is death is not a solution, ever. Rehabilition is the only answer but some people are too weak in themselves to accept and move on, that's why you will always get people asking for others to be killed because they want retribution served before them. Truth of the matter is, most of the criminal population can be helped and returned to civilised society given the help and time, but there will be some who can never walk free again because they would be a danger. Its important not to tar EVERYONE who's facing time, with the same brush, because that not only dosen't help society move in a better direction, it acts as a hinderance.

fasterspider

10-15-2006, 09:12 PM

I was clowning in my last post on this thread but I will tell you now, I have been to prison and it is a damn good thing they have them. Because some of the people that I met on the inside, I would not want to meet on the street.
Death Penalties are doing society a favor by ridding them of truly evil people. I am willing to bet that most of you have led sheltered lives and do not know the 1st thing about real life but it is fucking scary and I hope none of you ever have to realize that life either.

SwirlyMass

10-15-2006, 09:43 PM

have our criminals do all the jobs nobody wants to do, have them pave roads and work at the dump. make them clean our sewers and pick up all our litter. they should get to do the stuff that people hate doing because then it gets done and it punishes them at the same time. just have proximity shock collars on all of them so if they walk 20ft away from their captor they get 10,000 volts to the jugular and a few free shots to the head with a baton.

brand their foreheads for the ones who are in for life, that way if they escape they have no chance of blending in.

all the hot female prisoners will be used by me for personal purposes. and then everyone is happy.:stoned:

MegaOctane12

10-15-2006, 09:59 PM

SwirlyMass

10-15-2006, 10:08 PM

See everyone loves my ideas, time to implement them now and make me supreme overlord of earth, I'll now be taking applications for embassador of oppression, Vice chairman in charge of terror and mind control (also monitors subliminal message department and the office of corruption)

Stand by for more openenings, experience in torture and domination tactics a plus!!!

fasterspider

10-15-2006, 10:56 PM

Stand by for more openenings, experience in torture and domination tactics a plus!!!

Can I please have a job doing torture?:clap: Oh it is my life long dream to inflict terribly agonizing measures of torture.:dance:

ZeldaG.

10-16-2006, 04:03 PM

sorry i didnt read the hwole thread and all but i have a very clear OPINION (as in mine and i aint trying to change yours and i have a right to it and all that lol), i think the family of the murdered one should become the judge, they should chose whether the person dies, how he dies and all that i know your gonna say this has been said (cos i read that far) but i dont mean the family be able to hurt him and all that cos some ppl wotn be able to do that, like imagine some kind old ladies who goes church every weekend husband got killed and she got to do whatever she wants with the man who did it ofr an hour, lol, she will be like oh crap i want this fucker to die but i cant kill him myself cos like i cant do that but i would love someone to do it for me and so it goes...

jamstigator

10-16-2006, 04:26 PM

Attach the Electrodes of Freedom to the Testicles of Terror, and turn on the juice!

likemclever

10-16-2006, 05:50 PM

O GK you’re in a heavy sort of way since you’ve been back. Where did you go? Looking for yourself perhaps?

Murder and killing are two different things that’s why we have two different words.

People try and make the argument that Christians are hypocrites because of their support in both the death penalty and the war in Iraq. Christians are people living in a perpetual state of sin just like the rest of the world. We are not Christ, no one is. Ideally we should try and emulate they way he lived his life because he was without sin. If it were possible to live your life as Christ lived his dieing for our sins would be unnecessary. Wow thought I was in the religious section there for a moment.

As for the death penalty and war. As long as there is evil in this world, they both are necessary.

MegaOctane12

10-16-2006, 05:59 PM

O GK youâ??re in a heavy sort of way since youâ??ve been back. Where did you go? Looking for yourself perhaps?

Murder and killing are two different things thatâ??s why we have two different words.

People try and make the argument that Christians are hypocrites because of their support in both the death penalty and the war in Iraq. Christians are people living in a perpetual state of sin just like the rest of the world. We are not Christ, no one is. Ideally we should try and emulate they way he lived his life because he was without sin. If it were possible to live your life as Christ lived his dieing for our sins would be unnecessary. Wow thought I was in the religious section there for a moment.

As for the death penalty and war. As long as there is evil in this world, they both are necessary.

Everybody is evil and not evil alike, there is a balance that you have to find, its not like some people are one or the other.

Professor Dan K.

10-16-2006, 06:10 PM

then again, what is evil? what makes someone evil? as i heard in a movie once, "one countries terrorist is another countries freedom fighter", what makes someone evil that another person could consider righteous?

its all the same, all relative,

likemclever

10-16-2006, 06:12 PM

Everybody is evil and not evil alike, there is a balance that you have to find, its not like some people are one or the other.

Agreed

although I do believe that their are truly evil people in this world.

the image reaper

10-16-2006, 06:15 PM

Those guys killed.. so we are going to kill to end the killing?

I am struggling with this... is this insane??

please
help..

iloveyou

YES, its very effective ... FACT: if they are dead, they will no longer kill people ... and, YES, killing is insane... more specifically, it is SIN, and we all are sinful ... all the touchy-feely warm fuzzies in the world will never change human nature and sin ... :smokin: