F2 Seeds .... Please explain ....

[GrowRebel]

Okay I've been trying to do a search on f2 seeds, but the stupid search engine won't accept F2 it thinks it's too small a word .... big help that is ... so if there is a thread out there on this sorry for the duplicate question.

Let's pretend I'm a four year old and explain to me what f2 seeds are and how will they be different from f1 .... will the quality be effected. Will all the plants from that strain have the same charcaterists or will each plant vary?

I've been doing some searching else where and if I understand it correctly there isn't too much difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.:stoned:

[JP_Patches]

If you take some seeds and breed them against each other your first cross is called an F2 and the higher that number climbs the more times they have been bred aginst each other. Which in turn if its a stable strain the quiality gets inbred and becomes more and more stable over time.

[stinkyattic]

Let's pretend I'm a four year old and explain to me what f2 seeds are and how will they be different from f1 .... will the quality be effected. Will all the plants from that strain have the same charcaterists or will each plant vary?:

Sure,
Say you have AK47 and WW.
Breed them together.
You get a F1 hybrid that you will call (AK47 x WW).
You may also note a phenomenon called 'hybrid vigor' in this generation ONLY.
You will usually be able to see 3 distinct phenotypes among the F1 plants, because of dominance/recessivity among the original gene pool you were working with.

You have a choice now to take your F1 generation and either do what is called a 'backcross' to either of the parents, and you would get either (AK47 X (AK47 X WW)) BX1, or (WW X (AK47 X WW)) BX1. The 'BX 1' means it's a back-cross to one of the parents.

Your other choice is to breed the F1's only amongst themselves.
This gives you the F2 generation.
You will very likely lose your hybrid vigor in this breeding.
You will see in the offspring even MORE variation, because of the increased possiblity of recessive genes 'finding' each other in the population and giving you double-recessive plants that display traits that would have been masked in earlier generations.


I've been doing some searching else where and if I understand it correctly there isn't too much difference. Correct me if I'm wrong.
You're misguided by seed vendors who want you to think F2's are just great, but the truth is I wouldn't waste space on them unless I had the original parent plants to work with and could make a bunch of BX seeds from them.
But a lazy 'breeder' can crank out zillions of F2 seeds with very little effort.

[OmegaVermelho]

Stinky u rock.........great info tks....

[tahoe58]

recalling genetics 101...stink's sure got it correct....though my question is what are the differences-benefits-problems for F1 vs F2 vs BX1 etc. or are there any?

[m.g.]

robert clarke explains it all in chapter 3 of his cannabis botony book...

http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Amphitheatre/5796/botany.html?200613

it's a bit dry at times but he explains the process and labeling of the "f series" better than anywhere else i've read...lots more useful info in the other chapters too but chapter 3 concentrates on the question here.

[GrowRebel]

Wow..... this is still all greek to me .. :confused:

[Tommygirl]

Wow..... this is still all greek to me .. :confused:
Actually, I think a lot of it is Latin.:smokin: *cheeky grin* Sorry, couldn't resist teasing.

[GrowRebel]

Actually, I think a lot of it is Latin.:smokin: *cheeky grin* Sorry, couldn't resist teasing.


Latin .... Greek .... English .... I still don't get it ... :confused: :(

so what should I expect from F2 SOL sweet tooth, F2 Neville's Haze, and F2 WL Nirvana Haze?

[stinkyattic]

recalling genetics 101...stink's sure got it correct....though my question is what are the differences-benefits-problems for F1 vs F2 vs BX1 etc. or are there any?

F1- variation is limited to specific phenos based on parents
---Hybrid vigor would be most visible in this generation
F2- more variation in phenos, I'd personally only grow F2s to find one perfect mother to take clones from, or for inbreeding purposes, if at all; less vigor than F1s usually.
[F n- I believe this is the origin of some very localized strains. Began with bagseeds for all we know, but was inbred based on performance of F n offspring in very circumscribed conditions, using only acceptable F offspring for breeding.] This was the origin of my personal stock, and I never did any backcrosses, then I began outcrossing to Afghan males.
BX- This is the generation where you start stabilizing traits you like by going back to your original stock and testing for homozygous traits, and isolating which offspring of your F generations has them.

[GrowRebel]

So since I have these F2 seeds .... if I have girls I have to find out which will be the best one because they will all vary ..... correct?

[stinkyattic]

Correct. The variations will be limited to what the genes in your pool are. Pick your favorite and clone a couple mothers off her.

[GrowRebel]

So in a nutshell if you have an F2 strain you can clone from the best mama and still have top quality smoke ..... just not good for breeding if that is your goal .... correct?

.... and can you say F2's are fine to use as long as your not working to create a better strain .... true?

If so then I get it on the level of a four year old. :stoned:

[stinkyattic]

So in a nutshell if you have an F2 strain you can clone from the best mama and still have top quality smoke :
Yes, no problem there!


..... just not good for breeding if that is your goal .... correct?:They are only useful for breeding if you have something to backcross to IMO. It would save a LOT of time.
.
... and can you say F2's are fine to use as long as your not working to create a better strain .... true?

:You can use them. They still contain useful genes, but if you're looking to just keep making the same seeds over and over for yourself it won't work the way you'd expect.

[krazyken]

F2 are fine if the cross was selective and not random! F3 the same thing but more even! Selective inbreeding IBL

Breeding is a chore that's for sure! Northern Lights is an IBL !!

Ken :)

[GrowRebel]

I'm pretty sure these were selected crosses .... they guy who gave them to me enjoys breeding ... strains and seeds.

What is IBL? :confused:
:stoned:

[krazyken]

I'm pretty sure these were selected crosses .... they guy who gave them to me enjoys breeding ... strains and seeds.

What is IBL? :confused:
:stoned:

IBL= Inbred Line

KK :)

[stinkyattic]

What is IBL? :
:

Hey there's a IBL thread somewhere down strains and seeds with a list of stable strains that you can use to get just FINE high-F generation seeds off.

Things like Island Sweet Skunk, Skunk #1, LAndrace Afghans, etc.

They're completely stable so the F stuff doesn't apply so much anymore unless you make an outcross.