question for Zandor

[deftdrummer]

hey man, I am getting mixed results as to what the proper pH should be for hydro during the flowering stage. It is ebb and flow and the muditity is pretty high. I saw that you recommend starting at about 70-80% humidity and then lowering it 5% a week until harvest. Our humidity is at like 70% right now at week 3 of flowering. We were thinking about turning off the inlet fan since temps aren't a problem right now, and letting the humidity settle out with the natural humidity of the house rather than the outside humidity which is currently really high in our area. can you lend some advice please? thanks

[connisuer]

im interested in what the theory is behind the high humidity, i have always beleived that plants expel moisture through there leaves to take up moisture through there roots, thus high humidity will inhibit growth, especially during flower when the plant is creating resin to cushion the effects of dry winter weather, also at 80% humidity your asking for mold, for christ sakes it might rain in there, keep them girls at 40-50% the whole grow

[Zandor]

The dryer conditions the harder the plants works. The harder the plants work and the dryer it is the more odors there are.

Let’s say that you have 70% for veg and into the first 10 day's of flower. Now if you lower it each week by about 5% on average you will end up 40-50% at the end. Just perfect to grow healthy flowers in the final stage of the cycle. The less the plants transpire the better temperature control the plant has internally. It will allow maximum uptake of nutrients and maximum conversions of the nutrients to sugars. Thus making larger and more flowers. The plant can put all it's energy into making flowers and not into moving needed food around the plant so each area can grow.

I'll cover more detail this week in my show. If you have confusion then others may as well.

This week it's outdoor's mostly but I can fit this in.

After all what's to outdoors, plant it and watch it grow like grass...lol j/k

[deftdrummer]

thanks zandor, I guess i'm going to try turning off the inlet fan see how much that brings it down, but if that doesn't do it I guess we will have to look at other methods of bringing it down.

[connisuer]

Zandor: ok so your saying the dryer the air the harder the plant is working, why is it harder, isn't it working with less resistance ?, let's say we have a perfect enviroment with optimum light, optimum CO2, optimum airation and perfectly balanced nutrients in a medium that has an ideal air to water ratio, we now have the perfect setup for optimum growth, in that type of setup our plants would be thriving with an impressive metabolic rate, but by the theory I'm going by, raising the humidity is creating more resistance in the air, so now that plant is working harder, because if all enviromental conditions are at optimal levels than our plants are working at optimum metobolic rates and we slow down the nutrient solution movement in the plant by raising the humidity then were starving the plant of nutrients it needs, I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying my theory is create optimum metabolism and you get the by product, which is optimum growth, its kind of like the make her thirsty technique growers were using back in the 90s , then we all realized starving our plants of water can kill them, but the theory was corect just the technique was wrong, let's starve them of humidty and give them all the water they need

[Zandor]

Zandor: ok so your saying the dryer the air the harder the plant is working, why is it harder, isn't it working with less resistance ?, let's say we have a perfect enviroment with optimum light, optimum CO2, optimum airation and perfectly balanced nutrients in a medium that has an ideal air to water ratio, we now have the perfect setup for optimum growth, in that type of setup our plants would be thriving with an impressive metabolic rate, but by the theory I'm going by, raising the humidity is creating more resistance in the air, so now that plant is working harder, because if all enviromental conditions are at optimal levels than our plants are working at optimum metobolic rates and we slow down the nutrient solution movement in the plant by raising the humidity then were starving the plant of nutrients it needs, I'm not saying your wrong, I'm saying my theory is create optimum metabolism and you get the by product, which is optimum growth, its kind of like the make her thirsty technique growers were using back in the 90s , then we all realized starving our plants of water can kill them, but the theory was corect just the technique was wrong, let's starve them of humidty and give them all the water they need


This weeks show turned out to be a special show with an interview with JDog600 and mysa it's the first of 2 parts.

I will try to explane this in more detail later I don't have the time today but I will check back in tomorrow.

Look up transpiring in the plant dry means the plant will transpire more to control the internal temperature. If they don't transpire then they get fat, happy thick foliage that is lush green and very healthy. You raise the RH with a fogger that is very small micron mists. But being prepared to control the environment is key. Fogger to raise the RH and a dehumidifier to lower the RH if it gets to high. Plus a sulfur burner just in case.

That's the quick version.

[latewood]

My 50 pint maytag is enroute Z. I have figured out how to use old coffee makers for sulfur pots...peace

faq to come later. need to make time to fabricate. OH, I remember when I had time...

[deftdrummer]

I am still a little lost. A cut and dry answer for those of us that are a little less biologically inclined would be cool. :stoned: Lower humidity for flowering? 40-50% ranger or even lower?

[Zandor]

I am still a little lost. A cut and dry answer for those of us that are a little less biologically inclined would be cool. :stoned: Lower humidity for flowering? 40-50% ranger or even lower?

Yes even lower then that for some strains. Some strains like 25-30% range it depends on the genetics and where the dominate trait come from, what part of the world in other words.

Is that simple enough?

[deftdrummer]

yes thanks zandor. I have already bought a crystal type dehumidifier for our little closet. I think this should work out. If it doesn't it's time to invest in a $100 unit!

[Zandor]

Right on, if it gets to high you may want to look into a sulfer burner just in case.

[deftdrummer]

what is the deal behind those? I have never heard about those or looked into the price range. How does burning sulfur help out?

[Zandor]

It’s the best way to kill mold. When you grow on the edge to get the max out of the plant you need to be prepared.

They cost about 125 bucks and burn very clean sulfur like a vaporizer does. You only turn them on when you need them and they only run for a few day's when it's empty the mold is gone. The plant loves sulfur too so it's good for the plant anyway.

[connisuer]

Zandor: ok i'm trien to understand you but my thought process is completely opposite of yours, so please debate with me and maybe we both can learn something, thats the whole purpose of this right? first you say the higher humidity the thicker and more robust foliage, i interpet that as more water retention, means a slower metabolism due to restricted nutrient uptake, so in other words yes, just like humans when our metabolism slows down we get "fat", nobody wants fat, lets compare the human body and the marijuana plant, so to say, you go on a diet, eat every 2 hours a day, you start working out 3-4 times a week, your going to build physical resistance due to straining your body and giving it what it needs, now you are no longer straining your body, working out has just become routine, right? lets relate that theory to our plants, we have our plants in the perfect enviroment to grow in but our humidity is a tad high, from the naked eye it appears we have very healthy lush plants, they seem to be working fine, photosynthesis seems to be taking place, but what if it could be better? i think the problem is we look at our plants and if they look healthy all is well, hey you might look healthy 50 pounds overweight too but that doesnt mean your performing at your maximum potential, back to the plants, lets say we drop that there humidty down 20%, now our "fat" out of shape plants have to work a little harder to keep up with the moisture inside they have grown acustomed to, true at first we are straining our plants to work harder to rehydrate themselves but do you think in the process of stressing them out there now going to grow thicker stalks to make up for the water loss? the more our plants work, the more there going to grow, the higher there metabolism is going to get to keep up with the dietary needs, after awhile were really not stressing our plants out are we, we've just worked them into shape, now with this higher metabolism and a stronger nutrient uptake were going to get more growth instead of water weight, in terms more resin production instead of water heavy buds, now if our plants our working much harder now, like you said they are transpiring more, and the more they transpire the more there internal heat drops, the lower there metabolism gets, right? but if photosynthesis is happening in the leaves, and we have our leaves basking in the rays of big HID lamps there shouldnt be a dramatic loss in temperature

[mistyganjatree]

i think to put it in laymens terms,
if you grow with plenty of humiditty the amount of moisture {that will be converted into sugars for food } is higher in the plant as it goes into flower, wich gives it an advantage of not having to feed all from the root, it has a "fat 'reserve to fuel itself from!
so it gets big and lush,
by the way, a biological being like the human has NO similarities to plants!
what so ever, they have no blood, lungs, heart or inernal nevous system! lol


laymans terms are cool!

welcome to the world of endless possibilities,,,,hydroponics

[connisuer]

I'm so sorry if you have completely misunderstood my cross analogy of plants and humans to show how we all react to stress and adapt to enviromental changes, thank you so very much for restating zandors theory in laymens terms, only problem is I don't happen to be a "laymen" and I was looking for a more in depth explination of how his theory can prove mine wrong, its kind of like politics, if you don't understand you can't debate

[Zandor]

First sorry but it’s hard to compare this plant with people in terms of growth. There is no real common point to begin a discussion and have it make any since.
First plants store energy they do not turn it to fat. Plants don’t need to workout and thin is not in with plants. The larger the plant get the more energy they can store but in turn the more energy they need just to maintain that same level of growth.

Large fan leafs are used to help the plant control the internal temperature of the liquid in the plant thus the temperature of the whole plant. Plants work in more of a reverse manor, when they transpire they are working to hard and spending energy doing other things rather then just growing more foliage and flowers... Your compartment of this to people is only confusing the facts. You said most of the theory properly but you keep trying to compare it to people fat from what I can tell.

By having high humidity in the vegetation cycle the plant is allowed to spend its energy into producing foliage above the root line and it does not need to build mass roots (in hydro) the drippers deliver all the required nutrients to the plant when it needs it.

I assume you have checked out my Cycle of Life growing technique already.

[Chlorella99]

zandor, in question to the fogger you refer to ; is a halloween style fogger going to work? Also can your post a link to your cycle of life and any other articles that you feel would help a struggling grower out. sorry to invade your thread deft.

[Zandor]

http://www.hydrofogger.com/inc/pdetail?v=1&pid=35

That is one of the type of foggers I am talking about.

[mistyganjatree]

nice fogger zandor, i have smaller domestic models and a floating ultrasonic mister, works good but the refill would be a thing of the past with that one!! that looks the buisness, expensive though,
hey is that humidifier gonna make your plants fat and breathless!! ha ha !!! ha ha ha

[Zandor]

That is the unit you use to grow big.........but you need more to go with it to grow big but it's an important part of the magic. :)

[Chlorella99]

thanks for the reply Z

[Zandor]

So did everyone get it about humidity? It's not as easy to explain as I thought it would be. I just want to make sure everyone understands is all.

[latewood]

Z..I think sometimes we all get impatient when reading, thus leading us to a little misunderstanding. I think you explained humidity very well, and the fogger and de-humidifier references made this thread full of good usable info...peace