In The War On Terror,Liberals Are More Dangerous Than Muslims

[Torog]

In The War On Terror, Liberals Are More Dangerous Than Muslims (Don Feder 9/11 Meditation Alert) (http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1704732/posts)

Don Feder.com ^ (http://freerepublic.com/%5Ehttp://www.donfeder.com/) | 09/19/06 | Don Feder


Posted on 09/20/2006 3:24:37 AM PDT

In a recent commentary, former New York Mayor Ed Koch - a Democrat with at least half a brain (which makes him the leading intellectual light of his party) - asked rhetorically, "Why do so many Americans refuse to face the fact that our country is at war with international terrorism?"
Because they're liberals?

During the Spanish Civil War, as the climactic battle for Madrid approached, Nationalist leader Francisco Franco told a reporter: "I have four columns marching on Madrid and a fifth within the city ready to rise at my call."

Franco's comment gave rise to the World War II-era expression "fifth columnist" - a subversive, the enemy within who works covertly to sabotage a nation or cause. That pretty much sums up the part liberals play in the war on terrorism - except many of them are open in their admiration for Muslim murderers.

If anything, liberals are even more dangerous than Islamacists. The terrorist attacks with bombs and bullets. The liberal saps our will to resist. He rationalizes evil. In the name of civil liberties, he constantly seeks to undermine national security and make it impossible to safeguard our people from another 9/11.

One of the nation's foremost liberal institutions, Harvard has trained generations of the best and brightest to subvert our republican institutions, corrupt the culture and destroy representative government.
Is anyone shocked that former Iranian President Mohammed Khatami will address Harvard's Kennedy School of Government tonight? Khatami helped to create Hezbollah, and calls his handiwork "a shining sun that illuminates and warms the hearts of all Muslims."

When challenged on this bizarre observance of the fifth anniversary of 9/11, David Elwood, dean of the Kennedy School, wrapped himself in the mantle of the free exchange of ideas. "Do we listen to those we disagree with and vigorously challenge them, or do we close our ears completely?" Elwood sniffed.

Good old Crimson - let every voice be heard and all that. Well, not quite every voice. When he dared to suggest that, regarding scientific aptitude, there may be inherent differences between men and women, the feminist jihad issued a fatwa on then-Harvard President Lawrence Summers, who was eventually driven from his post.

While terrorist honchos are welcome at Harvard, future military officers aren't. Harvard banned ROTC a generation ago. Students who want to enroll in the Reserve Officer Training Corps have to take classes at MIT, for which they receive no credit at Harvard.

Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney had it right when he characterized Harvard's invitation to Khatami as "It's blame America.; it's hate America." Back in 1978, Harvard alum John Leboutiller wrote a book called "Harvard Hates America." If he ever does another edition, the volume could be subtitled, "Now More Than Ever."

Our nation's colleges and universities - the People's Republic of Academia - are hotbeds of anti-Americanism. It's hard to say if Osama bin Laden is more popular in Islamabad or New Haven. Yale has the former Taliban mouthpiece on its payroll.

Within months of the murder of 3,000 Americans, Nicholas De Genova, an assistant professor of anthropology and Latino studies at Columbia, told an anti-war rally that he prayed for "a million Mogadishus" (in reference to the 1993 ambush where 18 U.S. soldiers died). De Genova added, "The only true heroes are those who find ways that help defeat the U.S. military."
Not all of the criminally insane are confined in East Coast institutions. Ward Churchill - the pseudo-Indian who was then a professor at the University of Colorado -- called the Americans who died on September 11, 2001 "little Eichmanns" who were defeated by the "gallant sacrifices of the combat teams."

The left was saturated in treason in the 1960s. Academia is occupied territory, which year after year indoctrinates the next generation of America-haters who will go forth to corrupt others through the mass media, publishing, education and non-profits.

All of the institutions liberalism controls are hotbeds of sedition. The New York Times works overtime to emasculate America's response to Jihadism.
In June, The Times exposed a covert program to track the financial transactions of suspected terrorists. National security be damned! Don't terrorists have a right to know who's looking over their shoulder?
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said he was deeply troubled by the success of terrorist groups in manipulating the U.S. media. It's helpful to think of The New York Times as Al Jazeera's infidel subsidiary.
Mike Wallace, that most useful of idiots, recently interviewed Iran's lunatic-in-chief Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and reported the man who threatens to wipe Israel off the map is a helluva fellow. "He's actually, in a strange way, he's a rather attractive man, very smart, savvy, self-assured, good looking in a strange way," Wallace babbled to the Hollywood Reporter. As the German playwright says in "The Producers," "The Fuehrer was a great dancer!"

The liberal media specializes in sanitizing scum. The New York Times refuses to call Hamas a terrorist group, instead labeling it an "armed resistance" (and the Nazis were a social movement?). Says Reuters wire service, "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" and one man's crematorium is another man's camp fire.

The judiciary has spent half a century legislating the liberal agenda. Now, it's decided to oversee anti-terrorist operations, applying the same principles here that have given us the Miranda warning, the exclusionary rule and furloughs for lifers.

In mid-July, U.S. District Court Judge Anna Diggs Taylor (a Carter appointee, naturally) declared that a government program to intercept overseas phone calls between persons in the U.S. and al-Qaeda operatives abroad was unconstitutional. The TPS (Terrorist Surveillance Program) had a chilling effect, Taylor Diggs ruled, in a suit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union (speaking of terrorist operatives).

If Harvard needs a Khatami-class commencement speaker, is it not a gross violation of his civil liberties to monitor Dean Elwood's calls to some cave in Afghanistan?

In June, the Supreme Court's Shiite majority - Stevens, Souter, Ginsberg, Breyer and Kennedy - blocked the trial of terrorist suspects by military tribunals. Presumably, this too has a chilling effect on Allah's frequent flyers. If the Supreme Court had told FDR that using military courts to try spies and saboteurs was unconstitutional, he would have hauled them before a military tribunal.

Our courts are the third branch of the Iranian government.
If American voters give the Democrats control of Congress this year, they might as well make Hezbollah leader Sheik Hasan Nasrallah Speaker of the House and have done with it.

The Donkey Serenade is predictably monotone. Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid want us to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq at the end of the year, regardless of the situation on the ground. (Newsflash during the Battle of the Bulge: "Congressional Republicans Demand A Timetable For Withdrawal of US Forces From Europe").

Prior to the U.S. sending in ground forces, former President Jimmy Carter (who was instrumental in the fall of the Shah of Iran) was convinced, "There is no current danger to the U.S. from Baghdad." And if there was, little Jimmuh would have crashed a few helicopters in the desert to deal with it - or would have had his buddy Clinton bomb an aspirin factory.
Needless to say, Carter (who never met an anti-American thug he didn't adore) is getting a tete-a-tete with Khatami. Perhaps they can discuss their mutual aversion to Israel. (Carter in an August 15 interview in Der Spiegel: "I don't think that Israel has any legal or moral justification for their massive bombing of the entire nation of Lebanon. And I represent the vast majority of Democrats.")

Lastly, Sen. Patty Murray (who actually helps to depress the combined IQ of other Congressional Democrats) explained that Osama bin Laden's popularity in the Islamic world is due to his humanitarian achievements: "He's been out in these countries for decades building schools, building infrastructure, building day care facilities, building health care facilities and people are extremely grateful. He's made their lives better. We have not done that." Guess America doesn't have a foreign aid program.
Hitler built the Autobahn. Stalin gave Russia a swell public works program. Genghis Khan was into urban renewal and population planning.
Hey Patty, Osama is loved by his Muslim brothers because he kills Americans and Jews, not because he builds day care centers for fundamentalist Muslim career women.

As for that other bastion of brain-dead liberalism - Hollywood - there's a fierce competition to see who can be the most hysterical in denouncing the president.

"The (impending) war with Iraq is "unconstitutional, immoral and illegal" -- Jessica Lang. "I beg you to help save America before yours is a legacy of shame and horror" - Sean Penn. Bush has "taken the events of 9/11 and has manipulated the grief of the country, and I think that's reprehensible" - Dustin Hoffman. And my favorite Hollywood savant (and mistress of subtlety), "I hate Bush, I despise him and his entire administration" - Barbra Streisand.

From the ACLU to the Sierra Club, institutional liberalism is doing its best to assure an al-Qaeda victory. The Luddite left is still trying to block the development of oil reserves in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (estimated at 10.4 billion barrels) --presumably on the theory that it's good for America to be energy dependent on the terrorist-subsidizing Saudis.

The public schools too are doing their part to undermine morale on the home front.

One school district in California requires children to role-play at being Muslims, to better appreciate the religion of peace. ("OK, kids, let's pretend to strap explosives to our bodies and kill Zionists.") The same federal courts that say "One Nation Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance is an establishment of religion, have sanctioned indoctrination in the left's favorite religion.

In Kentucky, a 7th-grade social studies teacher burned small American flags in two separate classes, supposedly to illustrate the right to dissent - the same flag that is draped over the coffins of U.S. servicemen coming back from Iraq.

What are smelly savages lurking in Baghdad's back streets compared to the foregoing?

The only way America will ever be defeated by death-worshipping theocrats who've crawled out from under a Dark Ages rock is with the help of the mullahs' fifth column - academia, the media, the judiciary, public education, Hollywood and the Democratic Party.
Of the two suicide cults America confronts, liberalism is by far the more lethal.

[Torog]

BTTT

Thanx for 'nailing it',Mr Feder :thumbsup:

Have a good one ! :stoned: :D

[Bong30]

Yes They ARE TOROG... I have said it many times.....


Liberalism is a mental disorder...............Dr. Savage



LIKE i SAID...YOU DONT HAVE TO DIE...JUST GET THE FUCK OUT!

[Fengzi]

The way I see it, the conservatives are just as dangerous as the liberals. The liberals are so clouded by their hatred of Bush that they'll denounce any military action, claim 9/11 was an inside job, and firmly beleive that all Muslims are just happy, freedom loving folks without an angry bone in their body.

The conservatives, on the other hand, are so clouded by their anger and fear resulting from 9/11 that their willing to blow up anyone carrying the Koran. They blindly followed Bush into Iraq and then continue to come up with reasons for being their after it's been proven that their were no WMD's, no links to Al Qaeda, and no real threat to our security. Even worse, they fail to see that our being in Iraq has just pissed off thousands of angry young Muslims who were just pissed off camel jockeys before, but are now willing to strap on a bomb in the name of Allah. That's right folks, Bush has made us less safe from the threat of terrorism. Although I'm sure telling a conservative that is just as much a waste of time as telling a liberal that it really was Muslim terrorists that flew the planes into the Twin Towers and teh Pentagon.

People need to get a clue. Take a step towards the middle. Think for yourself and not what your parties tell you to think. $10 says Torog wouldn't be so supportive of the war if we had a gay President from San Francisco. But he'll gladly follow a moron from Texas. Sad, sad what America has come to.

[Torog]

The way I see it, the conservatives are just as dangerous as the liberals. The liberals are so clouded by their hatred of Bush that they'll denounce any military action, claim 9/11 was an inside job, and firmly beleive that all Muslims are just happy, freedom loving folks without an angry bone in their body.

The conservatives, on the other hand, are so clouded by their anger and fear resulting from 9/11 that their willing to blow up anyone carrying the Koran. They blindly followed Bush into Iraq and then continue to come up with reasons for being their after it's been proven that their were no WMD's, no links to Al Qaeda, and no real threat to our security. Even worse, they fail to see that our being in Iraq has just pissed off thousands of angry young Muslims who were just pissed off camel jockeys before, but are now willing to strap on a bomb in the name of Allah. That's right folks, Bush has made us less safe from the threat of terrorism. Although I'm sure telling a conservative that is just as much a waste of time as telling a liberal that it really was Muslim terrorists that flew the planes into the Twin Towers and teh Pentagon.

People need to get a clue. Take a step towards the middle. Think for yourself and not what your parties tell you to think. $10 says Torog wouldn't be so supportive of the war if we had a gay President from San Francisco. But he'll gladly follow a moron from Texas. Sad, sad what America has come to.

Howdy Fengzi,

My mind ain't clouded with fear,I am angry,but that's just a personal feeling,when it comes to defeating muslim-jihadists and the rogue regimes that support them,my mind is clear,my anger is not a factor..and I'm filled with a terrible resolve to defeat any who would attack us or desire to do such.

As for them 'camel jockeys',if strapping on a bomb is how they want to deal with things when they're angry..then they best be prepared for the consequences. Those kind of folks,need to be gotten rid of--not be made into friends.

I'd almost support a gay president from San Francisco,if he would fight the muslim-jihadists and the islamofascist regimes..with bullets and bombs,and not try to sweet-talk em. Anyhow,homosexuality is punishable with death,in fundy muslim countries,so he'd never be taken seriously and being gay,would be even more incentive for the muslim-jihadists to attack America and the Free World.

Do I win the bet ? lol

Have a good one ...! :stoned:

[Mark Bryan]

BTTT

Thanx for 'nailing it',Mr Feder :thumbsup:

Have a good one ! :stoned: :D

Though I agree with his stand on liberalism,a few years back in the Virginian Pilot,he was quoted as sayin pot was Toxic and caused death! We BOTH know that ain't true!

[Nylo]

Yes, as a democrat it was difficult to understand how dangerous modern liberalism is. Once upon a time liberalism was enlightening and promoted rational progressive thinking.

Not anymore. They've perverted the democrats just as the neo-cons have subverted the republican party. Americans are being given two radical paths two lead the country into when neither should be considered.

[Fengzi]

Yes, as a democrat it was difficult to understand how dangerous modern liberalism is. Once upon a time liberalism was enlightening and promoted rational progressive thinking.

Not anymore. They've perverted the democrats just as the neo-cons have subverted the republican party. Americans are being given two radical paths two lead the country into when neither should be considered.

Finally someone with some common sense:thumbsup:

[sanguinekane]

You didn't comment on my thread,which you linked to in yer reply..will you comment on it now ?


Sure, though I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of it, as well as many of the comments in this thread. To start of with, this article is obviously aimed at working up support amongst the already converted, and not at actually trying to intiate a dialogue between opposing viewpoints. Not that there is anything wrong with writing something to preach to the faithful, but by the same token, don't expect it to convince a great many new people that your specific political opinion is the "correct" one.

Feder's article is simply full of hyperbole and insults, which he is free to write as much as he wants, but at the same time, they do not engender a sense of openness and willingness to actually talk about these issues. It seems that Feder would rather just yell and insult people with a different opinion than his.


In a recent commentary, former New York Mayor Ed Koch - a Democrat with at least half a brain (which makes him the leading intellectual light of his party) - asked rhetorically, "Why do so many Americans refuse to face the fact that our country is at war with international terrorism?"

First time I looked at this thread, I stopped reading the article right there (though I obviously read it all the way through a little later). The above quote is an excellent example on how to not start an intelligent an reasoned debate, by insulting the mental capacity of an entire political party which probably represents the views of roughly half the electorate.

Indeed, it is an example of what has actually been causing the most discord and strife within this country since even before 9/11, and certainly since after then as well. The extreme partisanship that has only been fueled by pundits such as Feder, Coulter, Moore, Churchill, O'reily and others has done more to divide and turn the population against each other than the terrorists ever did. In a time when we should all be expressing our ideas equally, rationally discussing and debating those ideas, and then blending the best points from all sides of the political spectrum, we are instead pointing at each other and shrilly labeling each other as terrorist-supporters, fascists, Christo-Nazis, or liberal traitors.

Yes, of course there are people in this country who actually support the terrorists, and want to see them win. However, to say that everyone on one side of the political spectrum wants this country destroyed, and that they are actively (or even passively) giving help and assistance to the terrorists is not only ludicrous and unfounded, it is simply wrong.

[ohbrenishii04]

wow, that was long-winded, but I really get your point--
b

[rebgirl420]

wow what ever happened to being a libatarian? lol

[Breukelen advocaat]

wow what ever happened to being a libatarian? lol

libation \ly-BAY-shun\, noun:
1. The act of pouring a liquid (usually wine) either on the ground or on a victim in sacrifice to some deity; also, the wine or liquid thus poured out.
2. A beverage, especially an alcoholic beverage.
3. An act or instance of drinking.


:what:

[Jacop]

you know whats more dangerous then all?
A professional capitalist that doubles as a ninja in his free time.
OH and dont fuck with him, he's a professional memetic engineer.

[Transition Force]

Um, I'm sorry, but the right-wingers are just as dangerous as the left-wingers on this issue.

Take for example, the patriot act (the treasonous act), which all but renders our Bill of Rights meaningless.

Or how about all these security measures in our airports, enacted by the "conservatives". What have they done to increase our safety? Not a damn thing. All they've done is force the airlines to increase prices to cover the costs of the measures, and cause us more inconviences. Even Ann Coulter recognizes that!

Sorry, but the fact remains that terrorist attacks are one of the least likely ways for you to be hurt. They only serve one purpose : to inflict terror. And when we let our society become parylyzed by them, we only give into them. Here's some numbers for you:

1 in 88,000 of dying in a terrorist attack
1 in 55,928 of death by lightening
1 in 20,605 in your clothes igniting
1 in 10,455 of dying in your bathtub
1 in 10,010 by falling from a ladder or scaffolding
1 in 9,396 due to excessive heat
1 in 8,389 due to excessive cold
1 in 7,972 in a drowning accident
1 in 6,842 in a railway accident.
1 in 197 of dying in a homicide
1 in 299 of dying in an assault from a firearm
1 in 5,330 of dying in an assault by hanging or strangulation
1 in 207,261 in operations of war.

Of course, I have a solution that conservatives can feel comfortable with, and would also drastically reduce terrorism. Have everyone carry a concealed pistol :)

[Torog]

Sure, though I'm going to have to disagree with almost all of it, as well as many of the comments in this thread. To start of with, this article is obviously aimed at working up support amongst the already converted, and not at actually trying to intiate a dialogue between opposing viewpoints. Not that there is anything wrong with writing something to preach to the faithful, but by the same token, don't expect it to convince a great many new people that your specific political opinion is the "correct" one.

Feder's article is simply full of hyperbole and insults, which he is free to write as much as he wants, but at the same time, they do not engender a sense of openness and willingness to actually talk about these issues. It seems that Feder would rather just yell and insult people with a different opinion than his.



First time I looked at this thread, I stopped reading the article right there (though I obviously read it all the way through a little later). The above quote is an excellent example on how to not start an intelligent an reasoned debate, by insulting the mental capacity of an entire political party which probably represents the views of roughly half the electorate.

Indeed, it is an example of what has actually been causing the most discord and strife within this country since even before 9/11, and certainly since after then as well. The extreme partisanship that has only been fueled by pundits such as Feder, Coulter, Moore, Churchill, O'reily and others has done more to divide and turn the population against each other than the terrorists ever did. In a time when we should all be expressing our ideas equally, rationally discussing and debating those ideas, and then blending the best points from all sides of the political spectrum, we are instead pointing at each other and shrilly labeling each other as terrorist-supporters, fascists, Christo-Nazis, or liberal traitors.

Yes, of course there are people in this country who actually support the terrorists, and want to see them win. However, to say that everyone on one side of the political spectrum wants this country destroyed, and that they are actively (or even passively) giving help and assistance to the terrorists is not only ludicrous and unfounded, it is simply wrong.

Howdy sanguine,

Thanx for yer reply,sorry I didn't see it until now.

While you may be right in that the article was written mainly for the already-converted,it still needs to be pointed out,just how contrary the goals are of the Left,in securing our country and fighting the terrorists and rogue regimes. It needs to be demonstrated and high-lighted,that the Left has basically granted moral equivalancey to the terrorists and rogue regimes,the Left even continues to try and grant the terrorists,Constitutional rights and Geneva rights,when in fact,they are neither American citizens,except in a few cases,and that they are non-uniformed combatants.

I'll grant ya,that this country is very divided,because of articles that are distinctly biased,and pundits and politicians and activists,it's coming from both sides. However,at least my side--ain't willing to compromise with Evil,we ain't willing to dance with the devil..and we dang sure don't make excuses and apologies,for the despicable actions of the terrorists and rogue regimes.

So I will continue to highlight the fact,that the 5th column efforts are coming from the Left ..and that it's increasing..and just like in Vietnam,the 5th column wants us to abandon Iraq and Israel and once again,be a major part of the reason why millions of folks may die..when the ME is turned over to Iran and Syria.

I'm still wondering why you were the only one in the "Lottery" thread,that saw a need for at least a fortified compound..? It means that ya got some common sense in there,somewhere..lol.

Have a good one ...

[pisshead]

and how exactly does no property rights and the pan american union fit in with all this new freedom we have torog?

destroying property rights and chucking our sovereignty (among an endless list of how the country's basically gone) are probably two of the most anti-american things that can be done...how exactly is that 'conservative' and 'freedom'?

setting up a dictatorship is freedom?

have you ever even read the constitution?

[Bong30]

and how exactly does no property rights and the pan american union fit in with all this new freedom we have torog?

destroying property rights and chucking our sovereignty (among an endless list of how the country's basically gone) are probably two of the most anti-american things that can be done...how exactly is that 'conservative' and 'freedom'?

setting up a dictatorship is freedom?

have you ever even read the constitution?


Have you ever came up with one good idea? Or do you just Bitch?


NEVER ONE Idea pissy, not one.

[Cornelius]

It needs to be demonstrated and high-lighted,that the Left has basically granted moral equivalancey to the terrorists and rogue regimes,the Left even continues to try and grant the terrorists,Constitutional rights and Geneva rights,when in fact,they are neither American citizens,except in a few cases,and that they are non-uniformed combatants.

Is it so much to ask that these enemy combatants are at least charged with some sort of offense? That they be given a reason why they are being held in Guantanamo Bay for 5 years? Also, that they not be tortured. When the fuck did torture become OK in this country?

George Bush claims that one of the reasons we took Iraq is because Saddam had a nasty habit of torturing folks. Now we do it for him.



I'll grant ya,that this country is very divided,because of articles that are distinctly biased,and pundits and politicians and activists,it's coming from both sides. However,at least my side--ain't willing to compromise with Evil,we ain't willing to dance with the devil..and we dang sure don't make excuses and apologies,for the despicable actions of the terrorists and rogue regimes.


Who the hell apologizes for terrorists? You've been listening to too much conservative talk radio. I was all for the invasion of Afganistan. In fact, I think we should have sent everything we had to that place and SHUT DOWN the border. No terrorists or bombs in or out.

But instead we invaded Iraq, did not secure the border or weapons, and encouraged a whole new generation of America-hating Arabs. Not to mention causing the death of a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis. Plus the death of a few thousand soldiers. Not to mention the soldiers who survived with severe handicaps.

We all want the same things. We want to be safe, and not have to worry that terrorists are going to murder us. It's just that half of the country thinks the way to do this is to invade a country that had nothing to do with this conflict.

The invasion of Iraq has made the world a more dangerous place.

If you disagree, then open your eyes.

[Bong30]

Is it so much to ask that these enemy combatants are at least charged with some sort of offense? That they be given a reason why they are being held in Guantanamo Bay for 5 years? Also, that they not be tortured. When the fuck did torture become OK in this country?

George Bush claims that one of the reasons we took Iraq is because Saddam had a nasty habit of torturing folks. Now we do it for him.



Who the hell apologizes for terrorists? You've been listening to too much conservative talk radio. I was all for the invasion of Afganistan. In fact, I think we should have sent everything we had to that place and SHUT DOWN the border. No terrorists or bombs in or out.

But instead we invaded Iraq, did not secure the border or weapons, and encouraged a whole new generation of America-hating Arabs. Not to mention causing the death of a hundred thousand innocent Iraqis. Plus the death of a few thousand soldiers. Not to mention the soldiers who survived with severe handicaps.

We all want the same things. We want to be safe, and not have to worry that terrorists are going to murder us. It's just that half of the country thinks the way to do this is to invade a country that had nothing to do with this conflict.

The invasion of Iraq has made the world a more dangerous place.

If you disagree, then open your eyes.

this is why we invaded Iraq.........

Have you ever had a ZIT?

Think of afganistan on One side ........IE, one finger....
Think Of Iraq on the other side..........IE other Finger

Think of IRAN like a ZIT we need to POP...... WE Have perfect POPPPING position.

I hope we get some on the mirror.........:thumbsup:

[Krogith]

this is why we invaded Iraq.........

Have you ever had a ZIT?

Think of afganistan on One side ........IE, one finger....
Think Of Iraq on the other side..........IE other Finger

Think of IRAN like a ZIT we need to POP...... WE Have perfect POPPPING position.

I hope we get some on the mirror.........:thumbsup:


and you wonder why they might hate that? there are PEOPLE DIEING
killing human life and makeing people suffer brings more hate toward YOU. How does killing people who did nothing help anything? You are calling for more reasons for them to hate you. look how brain washed you are! How Sick.

[Bong30]

and you wonder why they might hate that? there are PEOPLE DIEING
killing human life and makeing people suffer brings more hate toward YOU. How does killing people who did nothing help anything? You are calling for more reasons for them to hate you. look how brain washed you are! How Sick.


Krogith the only smart thing you have said yet..........

I am Brain Washed...Pro american, Pro Capitalism, Pro Freedom, Pro Constitution, Pro Borders, Pro english language, Pro Family.

I LOTHE Pussy Mother fucking, commie bitches, that Hate america LIKE YOU.......

[Krogith]

yeah and you wanting to distroy everything else is what will cause others to want you distroyed. Sad how hate brings more hate huh?

[darkside]

it makes me worried that people think the world is safer now than we were before 911. going into iraq has increased al qaeda recruitment and brought radical islam to a country that was free from it before.the propaganda machine is hard at work coming up with new ways to scare the american people like creating non existant words (islamofascism) and the rediculous color coded terror alert system. This administration has denied all accountability for its actions and instead chooses to blame others and make pathetic excuses for their shortcomings. it has taken the american people too long to realize that they are being jerked around but people are finally starting to see the man behind the curtain. in the words of our "great" president, "you fool the american people once, shame on you. you fool us twice....uh..uh..well you cant fool us again"

[Fengzi]

it makes me worried that people think the world is safer now than we were before 911. going into iraq has increased al qaeda recruitment and brought radical islam to a country that was free from it before.the propaganda machine is hard at work coming up with new ways to scare the american people like creating non existant words (islamofascism) and the rediculous color coded terror alert system. This administration has denied all accountability for its actions and instead chooses to blame others and make pathetic excuses for their shortcomings. it has taken the american people too long to realize that they are being jerked around but people are finally starting to see the man behind the curtain. in the words of our "great" president, "you fool the american people once, shame on you. you fool us twice....uh..uh..well you cant fool us again"

Shame on you Darkside, despite the fact that leading experts have told him otherwise, our glorious President says the war has made us safer from terrorism. How dare you disagree with a man who has trouble forming a coherent sentence. He's the president so he's always right.

[Nylo]

I like the scope of thought that asks the question: Should we have not attacked Nazis for fear of creating more of them? The radical Jihadists need to be fought tooth and nail. The only thing that pisses me off is the element that the Administration didn't have a full coherant battle strategy or understanding of the area.

It's like this, I support 100% taking the fight to these new-age nazis. But I'm enraged that forethought wasn't considered at all by the ushers-of-war to prevent us from falling into the same trap as Israel is in: any means of defense or control is seen as aggression and advocated as such in Arab media. "I" know we're doing the right thing, but what difference does that make when the people you want to save are being told otherwise? That's the mess we're in.

[Krogith]

if the USA went in and set up police and FBI/CIA looking into and finding out the terror groups it would be ok. USA IS NOT there blowing everything up and shotting up towns, sounds like they are the terrorests invadeing countrys and inforceing power over people whos only option to fight back is to kill them selfs. You gotta be kidding me, there are 5 sucide bombings a DAY over there and for some reason someone running around to all the crazy people in the USA telling them to WAIT FOR THE BIG ONE? Your going to sit there and say these people want us dead and are networked but some how some way no one has done IED's in other countrys? Who ever is running around the WHOLE world telling all the sucide crazys to wait for the big one is doing an awsome job:confused: . Whoever is Dumb enouf to belive that is so blind sighted there going to die with this crupted world of HATE AND GREED. Don't be dumb and fall for the propaganda.

[darkside]

krogith im sorry but i didnt understand a word of that rambling incoherent post lol.

[Krogith]

how is it that islam extreamests can do 5 sucide bombings a day in there country. but some how they can't get this WORLD wide extreamizum to effect the USA. Some how all the crazy people are waiting for the next 9/11 and not just killing them selfs everyday in our country, Not even once in 5 years? you beliveing that is crazy. if they plained 9/11 and our boarders are wide open and there whole goal is to kill USA's ideas. why do we not see at least 1 attack a week?


there are bigger players involved controling what happends. this iraq war is causeing more to hate us. hence more money for war mongers.

real islam people pratice peace and know god judges, and when you kill others and yourself your makeing yourself god and you will die and be DUST. For you came from DUST and dust you will return.

God judges all and killing others is wrong, thoses who pick up the sword will die by it.

[birdgirl73]

krogith im sorry but i didnt understand a word of that rambling incoherent post lol.
You're not alone, Darkside. I find Krogith completely incomprehensible. What little I can decipher rarely makes much sense even when I can understand what he was attempting to say.

His post after the one you quoted from was equally incoherent.

[FireyBudBurner]

Krogith the only smart thing you have said yet..........

I am Brain Washed...Pro american, Pro Capitalism, Pro Freedom, Pro Constitution, Pro Borders, Pro english language, Pro Family.

I LOTHE Pussy Mother fucking, commie bitches, that Hate america LIKE YOU.......

Stop ranting and dissing other peoples ideas when yours are so simple and close minded, people like you is the reason our country is in political turmoil. Just shut up for once and listen, and maybe even COMPROMISE, I doubt you can even fanthom words like this though judging on what you've said so far.

[Breukelen advocaat]

You're not alone, Darkside. I find Krogith completely incomprehensible. What little I can decipher rarely makes much sense even when I can understand what he was attempting to say.

His post after the one you quoted from was equally incoherent.

For me, at least, he's in the same league as most of the great philosophers - or even better.

[Ignatius]

There is no reason on Earth for America (and us Brits, I'm not blaming it all on the USA) to be in Iraq. Under Saddam's regime there was no Islamic threat to the rest of the world. The real reason that the USA is in there is entirely due to oil, nothing else. I'm all for wiping out the idea of Islamic fundamentalism, it's completely backward. The way to do that is to make sure that conditions do not exist in which it can flourish. That's not what is happening in Iraq, rather the opposite. Bring all our tropps home now and stop interfering in other people's affairs. We have enough trouble at home (both in the UK and the USA) to be going on with. Let the muslim world do as it pleases provided they do not bother us. Make this abundantly clear to them. Let them know that we will wipe them off the face of the earth if they wish to go down that route...other than that let's leave them be.

[Ozarks]

The real reason that the USA is in there is entirely due to oil, nothing else.

If this was about oil we would be in Saudi Arabia and Iran. In the big picture, Iraq doesn't have enough oil to make a difference.

[Ignatius]

Iraq has plenty of Oil, also the USA needs a presence in that part of the world in case it goes tits up with Saudi . It's all about oil man.

[Ozarks]

Iraq has plenty of Oil, also the USA needs a presence in that part of the world in case it goes tits up with Saudi . It's all about oil man.

Nonsense, thats a simpletons view of the world, we already had a "presence" in Saudi Arabia, Quater and AEI (were all the oil is) before the war started.

[Fengzi]

I agree with Ozarks, the war has nothing to do with oil. Nor terrorism, nor having a prescence in the Middle East. The war with Iraq is all about ego, namely George W. Bush's ego. Dubya had to do something to make his presidency noteworthy. He wanted to be the guy to take down Saddam. He would have figured a way to get us into Iraq one way or another. If Bin Laden had turned over a new leaf and became a florist, and Saddam turned over his "extensive stockpile" (LOL) of WMD's, Dubya would have sent the troops in the name of preventing camel abuse.

[the image reaper]

TOROG ... you and I are WISE men ... :thumbsup:

[Great Spirit]

Deouncing liberals as the enemy is trademark in a fascist nation.

[Ignatius]

No, my view of the world is not that of a simpleton. But just for sport Ozarks why don't you tell me what the USA is doing in Iraq.

In your own time and all that.

[Bong30]

No, my view of the world is not that of a simpleton. But just for sport Ozarks why don't you tell me what the USA is doing in Iraq.

In your own time and all that.

This is my thoughts not Os.

We went to Iraq..... Pimple popping analogy

Afganistan is one finger............

Iraq Is the other finger........

Iran Is the pimple on the ass of the world.

We need perfect popping position, on IRAN.


Fuck the WMDs just say we went to Iraq to Fight Radical Islam.

[Ozarks]

No, my view of the world is not that of a simpleton. But just for sport Ozarks why don't you tell me what the USA is doing in Iraq.

In your own time and all that.

Well we sure aren't there for oil, what (little) oil Iraq does export goes mostly to France due to contracts Saddam signed, and which so far the new (Iraq) Government has chosen to Honor.

Right now what the USA and (32) other countries are doing is supporting the elected Government, engaging in rebuilding projects, killing bad guys whenever the opportunity arises and paying for it all with our money & blood while all the oil (you KNOW we're after) goes to France.

BTW Iraq doesn't pump enough oil to meet its own needs, due to 30 years of bad maintenance/enterstructure investment, 12 years of sanctions and now being blown up from time to time, but it needs money so it exports some oil.

[Bong30]

Stop ranting and dissing other peoples ideas when yours are so simple and close minded, people like you is the reason our country is in political turmoil. Just shut up for once and listen, and maybe even COMPROMISE, I doubt you can even fanthom words like this though judging on what you've said so far.

First and fore most....I have worked in the Ski, Snowboard industry since 85.
In you Avatar you look like a total NERD ...PLease change your picture before you give all snow sliders a bad Name............Gaper.

yes, I diss Ideas Like.... Me and My Family should be Muslims.


I dont want to live under Muslim law, and I dont want my kids too either. AND YOU BET YOUR ASS I WONT COMPROMISE.


Im sure you are the, Enemy Within, with a GAy picture...


do you seriously like that Picture of you? Let me tell you its stupid.

here is a real pic

[Bong30]

Deouncing liberals as the enemy is trademark in a fascist nation.

GS is the Type that would have been in Central Park during ww2 saying that Hitler is MISSUNDERSTOOD...... STFU

Switch............


Bleeding hart Liberals are the Enemy within...like you GS.:thumbsup:

[Ignatius]

Ok then Ozarks, that's your view point. Thanks for sharing it with us. I think you are wrong of course. Why would America waste it's time protecting democracy in Iraq when it singularly fails to do so elsewhere? Tell me, what business is it of America's what kind of govt they have in Iraq? Who made you world policeman? Of course it's to do with oil and territory, to think otherwise is naive in the extreme. If you are so interested in your version of democracy I can think of a few countries who you could make a start on. China for one. Or is China too big a target for you? In the meantime you might as well do business with them huh? I tell you what, I've lived in the states for a good while, and I like the people a lot. I like everything about America, but you are startingly naive when it comes down to politics. You have NO IDEA what's going on in the rest of the world. What's more you think you have a right to impose your ideas on it by force. You don't, and unfortunately whilst you are working in the "snow industry" thousands of your less well off countrymen are paying the ultimate price in Iraq and Afghanistan. But hey, who cares, at least you get to beat your chest right?

[Ignatius]

One more thing...Iraq has the second largest oil reserves in the middle east. Saudi Arabia has the biggest. And we all know who is best friends with the house of Saud don't we?

[Ozarks]

Ok then Ozarks, that's your view point. Thanks for sharing it with us. I think you are wrong of course.

I now What you think, I don't understand why.


Why would America waste it's time protecting democracy in Iraq when it singularly fails to do so elsewhere?

So, lack of perfection on this planet proves trying is wrong ?




Tell me, what business is it of America's what kind of govt they have in Iraq?

It isn't our business it's theirs, thats why they have elections.



Who made you world policeman?

Cowards won't do the right thing and are jealous of those who try.



Of course it's to do with oil and territory, to think otherwise is naive in the extreme.

No it doesn't see my last 3 posts but don't let reality sidetrack your agenda.:)



If you are so interested in your version of democracy I can think of a few countries who you could make a start on. China for one. Or is China too big a target for you?

China is already a democracy economicaly, politically it be one in the years to come, with out us firing a shot



In the meantime you might as well do business with them huh?

You are starting to catch on.




I tell you what, I've lived in the states for a good while, and I like the people a lot. I like everything about America, but you are startingly naive when it comes down to politics. You have NO IDEA what's going on in the rest of the world.


Unable to compete, the delusion of "I'm smarter then them, they don't understand" were have I heard that before ?




What's more you think you have a right to impose your ideas on it by force.

WE aren't "imposing"" anything on anyone



You don't, and unfortunately whilst you are working in the "snow industry"

I have no idea what you (think) you're talking about ?




thousands of your less well off countrymen are paying the ultimate price in Iraq and Afghanistan. But hey, who cares, at least you get to beat your chest right?
Americans always "pay the price" to build a better world, beating our chests has nothing to do with it.

[Ignatius]

Nobody asked America to invade Iraq, in fact the complete opposite happened. You went for the UN backing, failed to get it, so went ahead anyway. The Iraqis don't want you there, that's why so many of them are trying to kill coalition forces. You are attempting to impose your ideas of "democracy" on the world. One way or another Iraq would have eventually gotten round to changing the way it was governed. Remind me, what business was it of the USA again? Imagine for a moment that Iraq didn't like the way that the USA was being run. Would it be ok for them to invade the USA and try to overthrow your government? After all, Bush got in via a rigged vote didn't he? Was there not something fishy about those votes down in Florida? Does the fact that Iraq disapproves of your way of governing yourselves give it the right to invade? How come it's ok for you and not for them? Unless you are advancing the "might is right" argument, then we have a whole other discussion. Anyway, you are working in a ski resort, or whatever, (sorry if my "snow industry" remark was a little too esoteric for you, I'll try and speak in plainer terms for you next time) Meanwhile your fellow countrymen (that is to say NOT YOU) are paying the ultimate price. You carry on beating your chest and screaming your superiority over the rest of the world. In the meantime you will keep seeing your servicemen coming home in body bags, while the Haliburton group gets richer and richer. But hey, it's all worth it right? Try taking your head out of your arse and you might see the truth of the matter, but I doubt it.

[Bong30]

Nobody asked America to invade Iraq, in fact the complete opposite happened. You went for the UN backing, failed to get it, so went ahead anyway. The Iraqis don't want you there, that's why so many of them are trying to kill coalition forces. You are attempting to impose your ideas of "democracy" on the world. One way or another Iraq would have eventually gotten round to changing the way it was governed. Remind me, what business was it of the USA again? Imagine for a moment that Iraq didn't like the way that the USA was being run. Would it be ok for them to invade the USA and try to overthrow your government? After all, Bush got in via a rigged vote didn't he? Was there not something fishy about those votes down in Florida? Does the fact that Iraq disapproves of your way of governing yourselves give it the right to invade? How come it's ok for you and not for them? Unless you are advancing the "might is right" argument, then we have a whole other discussion. Anyway, you are working in a ski resort, or whatever, (sorry if my "snow industry" remark was a little too esoteric for you, I'll try and speak in plainer terms for you next time) Meanwhile your fellow countrymen (that is to say NOT YOU) are paying the ultimate price. You carry on beating your chest and screaming your superiority over the rest of the world. In the meantime you will keep seeing your servicemen coming home in body bags, while the Haliburton group gets richer and richer. But hey, it's all worth it right? Try taking your head out of your arse and you might see the truth of the matter, but I doubt it.


I worked in the Snow Industry...NOt Ozark you are dumb.


Do us a Favor....Stay In England...we dont ned any more america haters here, we have enough all ready.

Why dont you worry about...Londonstan. Leave the USA to us Americans.


It was Liberals like you that made us Loose Viet Nam...we wont lose this one ...WE CANT........Look at londonstan.....over run by radical Muslims.



Londonistan (book)
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Londonistan: How Britain is creating a terror state withinLondonistan: How Britain is creating a terror state within (ISBN 1-59403-144-4) is a book by journalist Melanie Phillips on the topic of the proliferation of Islamism in the United Kingdom over the past twenty years. The book is published in London by Encounter books.




[edit]
Overview
The book encompasses a critique of multiculturalism, weak policing, cultural relativism, and what she terms a 'victim culture'. She argues that these forces combined to create an ideal breeding ground for Islamic terrorists. She points to the centrality of London based individuals and groups to many terror plots around the world, which she argues were enabled by a semi-formal "covenant of security" between Islamists and the British authorities. Zacharias Moussaoui and shoebomber Richard Reid are two of many such examples she points to in the book.

According to Steven Emerson the book: "... exposes the scandalous appeasement of militant Islam by British officials, the media, even the Church of England, capturing in extraordinary detail how British society and institutions have either ignored or actively fostered the growth of extremist groups on British soil".





Im sure we will have to save your asses again.

[greasecleaner61]

[quote=Nylo]Yes, as a democrat it was difficult to understand how dangerous modern liberalism is. Once upon a time liberalism was enlightening and promoted rational progressive thinking.

Not anymore. They've perverted the democrats just as the neo-cons have subverted the republican party. Americans are being given two radical paths two lead the country into when neither should be considered.[/QUOTE

[greasecleaner61]

[quote=Nylo]Yes, as a democrat it was difficult to understand how dangerous modern liberalism is. Once upon a time liberalism was enlightening and promoted rational progressive thinking.

Not anymore. They've perverted the democrats just as the neo-cons have subverted the republican party. Americans are being given two radical paths two lead the country into when neither should be considered.[/QUOTE

so true, they quit smoking weed and started smoken crack

[Ignatius]

I mixed up one right wing moron with another, my bad as they say on your side of the pond. Aside from that little mix up there isn't anything else you can find in my argument to criticise? Why is America fighting Jihadists in iraq? If you knew the very first thing about world politics you'd surely know that Iraq was just about the last place you'd be looking for those folks, But hey, they're all the same aren't they? The whole of your post shows you to be an utter cretin. Nowhere have I stated that I hate America, just the opposite in fact, I love the place. Thankfully most of the people I meet have a couple of brain cells to rub against one another so I rarely have to encounter anyone as dumb as you assuredly are. I'll visit the USA anytime I please if it's all the same with you, it's not as if you are typical of the majority of the people I meet there so no real worries on that score. I wonder what your definition of a liberal is? Certainly it would be different to mine. I don't believe in invading countries just for the hell of it so if that makes me a liberal I'm proud to call myself one. I think most people with an iq higher than 50 would laugh at my being described as such, but let that pass for now, I don't want to overtax what passes for a brain in your thick plebian skull. You'll lose in Iraq for the same reason you lost in Vietnam, your cause is unjust and the people are against you. It's that simple. As to your assertion that you will need to bail us out...don't make me laugh. The last time that happened was in 1941 when your lot joined the war after it had already started. Not so keen to get involved then were you? It was left to us to stand ALONE against Hitler and we were doing a not bad job of it too. For a tiny island in the north atlantic we punch well above our weight on the world stage. It seems like it's us helping you out this time round. Look at Basra for a start, it was left to the Brits to sort that out after your lot had fucked it up. Perhaps if your tropps could see their way clear to stop killing our boys with friendly fire we might even be able to do more for you. Or is that another statistic you are proud of? Why don't you join up and get yourself out there anyway? I'm sure th earmy could use a few brave soldiers like yourself. It's just a pity that some good lads from our combined forces are sacrificing their lives so you can continue to live in ignorance. In an ideal world people like you would be shipped to the front and told to back up your words with actions. We'd see how fucking tough you were then.

[zephyrinne]

I'm just throwing this out here, but today the President signed a bill that will interrogate and prosecute terror suspects. Now, I'm all for getting these extremists and putting them in prison where they belong.. HOWEVER..

The legislation also eliminates some of the rights defendants are usually guaranteed under U.S. law, and it authorizes continued harsh interrogations of terror suspects. In the bill, it says any 'alien' is not guaranteed a writ of Habeas Corpus during these interrogations or detentions. "Alien" is defined as "a person who is not a citizen of the United States"; however, "Unlawful enemy combatant" is defined as a "person"; not an "alien". So this DOES apply to U.S. citizens. Nice bait and switch right there. The framers of this bill intentionally left that 'open' so they can basically hold anyone, U.S. citizen or not without Habeas Corpus.

Under this legislation, the President or his tribunal can declare anybody, citizen or not, to be one of those giving aid and comfort etc., and thus subject to this. So it's basically up to the President and Congress to determine who's bad and who's not.. So if someone is being tortured and they throw out a name of a 'so-called' terrorist or enemy combatant, this person, even a U.S. citizen can be detained without the chance of Habeas Corpus. Once you are considered a detainee, you are fucked. Even if you are 100% innocent.

For those who aren't sure what Habeas Corpus is, here's a lil snip: Habeas Corpus - To have the body - is a very basic principle, but is, more importantly, one of the foundational principles put into the Constitution. It means that if you are detained by a federal, state or local police agent, that agent must announce that you have been taken captive within a limited period (usually three days), must announce why you have been taken captive, and if no crime is charged against you within that period you must be released. The principle exists for a very simple reason - without it, people can be arrested and made to disappear.

The War on Terror is NOT a war. There is no end. No one surrenders. We can't hold people forever; we don't even know what their crimes are! This is one big black stain on the face of American civil liberties.

I always liked this quote from Thomas Jefferson : "Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

Extreme liberals AND conservatives are a danger to our society. That is why everyone of age needs to vote next month and get people into office who give a shit about our rights. What's this Constitution that people speak of? :rolleyes:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/17/bush.terrorism.ap/index.html - Link to news story.
http://news.lp.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/terrorism/mca2006.pdf - Link to the actual bill that was passed.

[Fengzi]

It was Liberals like you that made us Loose Viet Nam...we wont lose this one ...WE CANT........Look at londonstan.....over run by radical Muslims.




Actually Bong, we the reason we lost(in other words, the Communists won) the Vietnam War had a lot more to do with a disastrously misguided foreign policy than anything the Libs did. That, plus the fcat that we thought we knew what was better for them than they did. We really lost before a single troop set foot on the ground.

We should use the mistakes of the Vietnam War to help us win in Iraq. We just need to be sure we're looking at the right mistakes.

[Ignatius]

Shhhhh LDN Kidd, he knows better.

He saw it on CNN or read it in a book so it must be true. I lived in London for many years before getting out to the country for a while. Wonderful city...I'll be back there next year and I can't wait. There are a lot of muslims in London for sure, but so what? Like you say, the vast majority of them are decent hard working people who just want to get on with their lives.

[Bong30]

Actually Bong, we the reason we lost(in other words, the Communists won) the Vietnam War had a lot more to do with a disastrously misguided foreign policy than anything the Libs did. That, plus the fcat that we thought we knew what was better for them than they did. We really lost before a single troop set foot on the ground.

We should use the mistakes of the Vietnam War to help us win in Iraq. We just need to be sure we're looking at the right mistakes.


Strongly disagree......

Left wing pussies like walter chrokite, and Jane Fonda, along with Many others made it an Impossible war to win.

You cant fight a war with one arm tied behind your Back. Cambodia. in Vietnam to start.

You cannot win a Politicaly Correct war....like Now

THe Insurgents are killing Inocent people cause they know americans have no stomach for death.....any death. The President layed it out nicely last night.

The Libs Just think with their Harts...Killing is bad...yes it is, but Being run over by comunism and Islam is no day at the beach.

Peace Fengzi

[Bong30]

I mixed up one right wing moron with another, my bad as they say on your side of the pond. Aside from that little mix up there isn't anything else you can find in my argument to criticise? Why is America fighting Jihadists in iraq? If you knew the very first thing about world politics you'd surely know that Iraq was just about the last place you'd be looking for those folks, But hey, they're all the same aren't they? The whole of your post shows you to be an utter cretin. Nowhere have I stated that I hate America, just the opposite in fact, I love the place. Thankfully most of the people I meet have a couple of brain cells to rub against one another so I rarely have to encounter anyone as dumb as you assuredly are. I'll visit the USA anytime I please if it's all the same with you, it's not as if you are typical of the majority of the people I meet there so no real worries on that score. I wonder what your definition of a liberal is? Certainly it would be different to mine. I don't believe in invading countries just for the hell of it so if that makes me a liberal I'm proud to call myself one. I think most people with an iq higher than 50 would laugh at my being described as such, but let that pass for now, I don't want to overtax what passes for a brain in your thick plebian skull. You'll lose in Iraq for the same reason you lost in Vietnam, your cause is unjust and the people are against you. It's that simple. As to your assertion that you will need to bail us out...don't make me laugh. The last time that happened was in 1941 when your lot joined the war after it had already started. Not so keen to get involved then were you? It was left to us to stand ALONE against Hitler and we were doing a not bad job of it too. For a tiny island in the north atlantic we punch well above our weight on the world stage. It seems like it's us helping you out this time round. Look at Basra for a start, it was left to the Brits to sort that out after your lot had fucked it up. Perhaps if your tropps could see their way clear to stop killing our boys with friendly fire we might even be able to do more for you. Or is that another statistic you are proud of? Why don't you join up and get yourself out there anyway? I'm sure th earmy could use a few brave soldiers like yourself. It's just a pity that some good lads from our combined forces are sacrificing their lives so you can continue to live in ignorance. In an ideal world people like you would be shipped to the front and told to back up your words with actions. We'd see how fucking tough you were then.


My Dad Died fighting for this counrty asshole, I have Givin enough.....

My Grandpa...fought In WW2....I had kind of a bad taste in My mouth about combat....growing up with no Dad and all.............

Sounds Like you Brits are getting ready to Cut and run......


Just stay in Londonstan, and when you are living under Muslim Law dont ask us to save your asses. Just tell you MOM and Sis to put there Berkas on and STFU.

[Bong30]

Shhhhh LDN Kidd, he knows better.

He saw it on CNN or read it in a book so it must be true. I lived in London for many years before getting out to the country for a while. Wonderful city...I'll be back there next year and I can't wait. There are a lot of muslims in London for sure, but so what? Like you say, the vast majority of them are decent hard working people who just want to get on with their lives.

Let me tell you...


.There is no such thing as a moderate Muslim till they stand against the radicals <<<<<<read that a couple times.

Islam needs a reformation....Tell your Buddies to start it...Make your self useful

[Ozarks]

All this started because of the statement, that we went to Iraq for there oil, which is nonsense, unfortunately when this statement was changed and proved wrong. He got into changing the subject and name calling in an attempt to defend himself. Don't let it make you mad B30. You should be proud of your Father.:thumbsup:

[Bong30]

:( Actually many Muslims here do speak out against radicals. And Islam doesn't need a reformation, that is a very ignorant thing to say, it is a religion of peace. Maybe a few Muslims need to reform themselves but you can hardly blame the actions of the radicals directly on the religion of Islam, they are mislead.... Think how many crimes have been comitted and how many pointless wars started in Christianity's name throughout the ages. A few mislead individuals hardly warrants a reformation of an entire religion. Study the Koran fully and make an informed comment.:thumbsup:

I wouldnt wipe my ass with the koran Mohammed was a false prophet.


Look at how women are treated in Islam....


Christian learn from there mistakes....Bring better that the crusades

Apology of the POPE......
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1071456

Weekend Edition Sunday, March 12, 2000 · David Willy reports on the Pope John Paul II, who this morning in Rome apologized for the sins of Catholics going all the way back to the Crusades.

ALLAH WANTS YOU TO DIE FOR HIM, 72 VIRGINS BLAH BLAH......

Jesus Died, so we can Live.................. <<< way to deep for you, im sure kid


You are Ignorant......you dont have enough information to make an educated decision.....so you use all emotion= bleeding hart Liberal

[Bong30]

oh so if some decrepid guy in a robe says sorry it's okay... I see. Have you read ephesians... something like wives submit to your husbands like you would to your God... now that's some male chauvinist shit right there if I've ever heard any.:p

Listen asshole, He is not a decreped old guy...He Is the POPE. Speaks for all christians.... He said Sorry and Ment it.


When have you herd of a Muslim Leader stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

Never....Till the reformation

Im not the only one talking about it....


The Right Time for An Islamic Reformation

By Salman Rushdie

Sunday, August 7, 2005; Page B07

When Sir Iqbal Sacranie, head of the Muslim Council of Britain, admitted that "our own children" had perpetrated the July 7 London bombings, it was the first time in my memory that a British Muslim had accepted his community's responsibility for outrages committed by its members. Instead of blaming U.S. foreign policy or "Islamophobia," Sacranie described the bombings as a "profound challenge" for the Muslim community. However, this is the same Sacranie who, in 1989, said that "Death is perhaps too easy" for the author of "The Satanic Verses." Tony Blair's decision to knight him and treat him as the acceptable face of "moderate," "traditional" Islam is either a sign of his government's penchant for religious appeasement or a demonstration of how limited Blair's options really are.

Sacranie is a strong advocate of Blair's much-criticized new religious-hatred bill, which will make it harder to criticize religion, and he actually expects the new law to outlaw references to Islamic terrorism. He said as recently as Jan. 13, "There is no such thing as an Islamic terrorist. This is deeply offensive. Saying Muslims are terrorists would be covered [i.e., banned] by this provision." Two weeks later his organization boycotted a Holocaust remembrance ceremony in London commemorating the liberation of Auschwitz 60 years ago. If Sir Iqbal Sacranie is the best Blair can offer in the way of a good Muslim, we have a problem.


The Sacranie case illustrates the weakness of the Blair government's strategy of relying on traditional, essentially orthodox Muslims to help eradicate Islamist radicalism. Traditional Islam is a broad church that certainly includes millions of tolerant, civilized men and women but also encompasses many whose views on women's rights are antediluvian, who think of homosexuality as ungodly, who have little time for real freedom of expression, who routinely express anti-Semitic views and who, in the case of the Muslim diaspora, are -- it has to be said -- in many ways at odds with the Christian, Hindu, non-believing or Jewish cultures among which they live.

In Leeds, from which several of the London bombers came, many traditional Muslims lead inward-turned lives of near-segregation from the wider population. From such defensive, separated worlds some youngsters have indefensibly stepped across a moral line and taken up their lethal rucksacks.

The deeper alienations that lead to terrorism may have their roots in these young men's objections to events in Iraq or elsewhere, but the closed communities of some traditional Western Muslims are places in which young men's alienations can easily deepen. What is needed is a move beyond tradition -- nothing less than a reform movement to bring the core concepts of Islam into the modern age, a Muslim Reformation to combat not only the jihadist ideologues but also the dusty, stifling seminaries of the traditionalists, throwing open the windows to let in much-needed fresh air.

It would be good to see governments and community leaders inside the Muslim world as well as outside it throwing their weight behind this idea, because creating and sustaining such a reform movement will require above all a new educational impetus whose results may take a generation to be felt, a new scholarship to replace the literalist diktats and narrow dogmatisms that plague present-day Muslim thinking. It is high time, for starters, that Muslims were able to study the revelation of their religion as an event inside history, not supernaturally above it.

It should be a matter of intense interest to all Muslims that Islam is the only religion whose origins were recorded historically and thus are grounded not in legend but in fact. The Koran was revealed at a time of great change in the Arab world, the seventh-century shift from a matriarchal nomadic culture to an urban patriarchal system. Muhammad, as an orphan, personally suffered the difficulties of this transformation, and it is possible to read the Koran as a plea for the old matriarchal values in the new patriarchal world, a conservative plea that became revolutionary because of its appeal to all those whom the new system disenfranchised, the poor, the powerless and, yes, the orphans.

Muhammad was also a successful merchant and heard, on his travels, the Nestorian Christians' desert versions of Bible stories that the Koran mirrors closely (Christ, in the Koran, is born in an oasis, under a palm tree). It ought to be fascinating to Muslims everywhere to see how deeply their beloved book is a product of its place and time, and in how many ways it reflects the Prophet's own experiences.

However, few Muslims have been permitted to study their religious book in this way. The insistence that the Koranic text is the infallible, uncreated word of God renders analytical, scholarly discourse all but impossible. Why would God be influenced by the socioeconomics of seventh-century Arabia, after all? Why would the Messenger's personal circumstances have anything to do with the Message?

The traditionalists' refusal of history plays right into the hands of the literalist Islamofascists, allowing them to imprison Islam in their iron certainties and unchanging absolutes. If, however, the Koran were seen as a historical document, then it would be legitimate to reinterpret it to suit the new conditions of successive new ages. Laws made in the seventh century could finally give way to the needs of the 21st. The Islamic Reformation has to begin here, with an acceptance of the concept that all ideas, even sacred ones, must adapt to altered realities.

Broad-mindedness is related to tolerance; open-mindedness is the sibling of peace. This is how to take up the "profound challenge" of the bombers. Will Sir Iqbal Sacranie and his ilk agree that Islam must be modernized? That would make them part of the solution. Otherwise, they're just the "traditional" part of the problem.



Ring Ring schools in......... learn something kid

[Bong30]

I call it like i see it.......

Can you see that christians have learned...and Muslims Have NOT


They want us to live like Mohammed did...In the dark ages...fuck that

[Bong30]

We are both makin generalisations...anyway we aren't savin anybody by arguin... I'm goin for my bedies it's 2.45am here:(


Good nite sleep good.....

[Ignatius]

Hey Ozark, you haven't proved anything about oil.

Iraq (after Saudi) has the second biggest oil reserves in that region.

Sorry to hear your dad fought and died for his country there Bong30, that's a tough one. It doesn't make what you are saying right though. Don't try and use that as some kind of emotional bvlackmail on me, it won't work. I lost a few friends over in Ireland, a war largely financed by Irish Americans and the NORAID collections. How do you feel about that I wonder? Instead of ranting and beating your chest you should just maybe think a little. You got one thing right, Islam needs to go through a reformation. No doubt about it. That doesn't mean all muslims are bad though, nor does it mean London is turning into an Islamic state or whatever. If you'd ever lived here you'd see that for the ludicrous statement it is. I laughed at your assertion that Walter Kronkite and Jane Fonda lost you the Vietnam war.... that was about the dumbest thing I've read on this board. That really takes some doing. I think you have personal issues man, get yourself looked at.

[Fengzi]

Strongly disagree......

Left wing pussies like walter chrokite, and Jane Fonda, along with Many others made it an Impossible war to win.

You cant fight a war with one arm tied behind your Back. Cambodia. in Vietnam to start.

You cannot win a Politicaly Correct war....like Now

THe Insurgents are killing Inocent people cause they know americans have no stomach for death.....any death. The President layed it out nicely last night.

The Libs Just think with their Harts...Killing is bad...yes it is, but Being run over by comunism and Islam is no day at the beach.

Peace Fengzi

1000+ years of Vietnamese history made it an impossible war to win, not "left wing pussies". The pressure put on the govt by the left wing pussies may have prevented us from turning Hanoi into a dusty crater but that's about it. True, if our hands weren't tied we probably could have defeated the official govt of North Vietnam but we'd just have been left with a situation similar, if not worse, than what we have in Iraq today.

I actually wrote a 69 page( I can remember because it seemed so unbelievably long at the time) paper on this exact topic back in school. It's pretty complex but I'll give you the condensed version. For most of it's history, Vietnam was under the control of one or another foriegn power. From well before the birth of Christ(if you belive in that) to the mid 1800's, Vietnam was under the control of China in one form or another. Then the French, then the Japanese, then the French again. Finally the Vietnamese defeated the French at the battle of Dien Bien Phu in 1954 and it seemed they were finally independent.

No sooner had Vietnam finally gained it's "independence" than we, in our post WWII McCarthistic anti-communist hysteria, started messing around in their politics. Instead of just letting them work it out for themselves we orchestrated the whole Geneva conference and then set up Diem ( a rich Catholic in a nation of poor Buddhists) as the leader of our puppet government in the south.

During this period the vast majority of Vietnamese were poor farmers. If the Communists won, they'd poor farmers. If the capitalists won, they'd be poor farmers. These people didn't give a damn about political ideologies. What they did care about, however, was finally being independent. The vast majority of the people we were fighting against weren't fighting for communism, they were simply fighting against yet another foriegn power fucking with their shit.

You see, this wasn't a war of attrition. We had a kill ratio of 40-50 Vietnamese (NVA and Viet Cong) for every 1 American killed. In that regard we were clearly winning. Unfortunately this was more of a battle for the minds of the people and in that area we lost very badly. This is why the communists had a nearly endless supply of soldiers willing to be sent off and killed by the Americans. With this type of situation you have to ask yourself just what will it take to achieve victory? If it means killing every man, and a lot of women too, between the age of 12 and 55 is it worth it? That's pretty much what it was going to take. Yes, we could have taken out the government of the North but the insurgents would just keep on coming for eternity.

The current situation in Iraq is vastly different from what we faced in Vietnam but there are a lot of parallels as well. Unlike the beloved Uncle Ho, Saddam was a hated dictator. In taking him out we have generated some good will amongst many Iraqi's. We just need to make sure we don't squander it away if we have any chance of winning. Unfortunately, it's obvious that our current administration gave no thought to the social and/or economic factors (in Iraq) involved in winning this war. Bush only thinks in terms of "if we kill enough we will win" and that is what will cost us in the long run.

[Bong30]

Well said Fengzi.....

My point is that the American Bleeing hart liberals, weaken our resolve. The Enemy Within..........

Korea, and Viet nam, bolth could have been better for the People...fuck thier goverments.


BUsh thinks if you kill enough.......... NO, he even Knows you cant beat a birth Rate.

We can sit here and wait to be over run, like we are seeing in europe...Ie Paris, Londonstan.... ect ect....


We need bolth.....Input and output.

Input.... we need to have them stop teaching in the madrassas that all infidels must DIE....That Is the Input side.

Kill the Radicals cause they are a lost cause.....that is the Output.


Right now we are just doing the output side...... Islam needs a reformation for the Input side.

Till that happens...... well just watch the news.


Much Respect Fengzi