9/11 Debate:Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of "Debunking 9/11"

[Breukelen advocaat]

Sept. 11, 2006

EXCLUSIVE...9/11 Debate: Loose Change Filmmakers vs. Popular Mechanics Editors of "Debunking 9/11 Myths"

The Video is on this webpage:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/09/11/1345203

[Bong30]

They cant handle the truth.............


Do you ever ask your self "what are they affraid of?"

P4B.............put up the "You cant handle the truth".....Jack Nickleson pic...LOL


BA.. I will watch the vid tomarrow when i have time.....

[BobBong]

The whole loosechange video was thrown out my consipracy window as soon as they said it was a B-52 bomber that crashes into the Empire state building..not a B-25

Like i've said before, you need at least know your history.. if you intend to predict it.
Bob.

[BobBong]

hahahah nevermind, i see they finally corrected themselves in the 2nd edition..

I guess the first was a conspiracy rough draft?:rolleyes:

[BobBong]

That's what gets me about these "theories" when new information becomes available the "theory" is simply changed to just conflict even more with the actual fact.

You blame the government for making everyone paranoid.. when in reality, you do it to yourself by listening to "theories".

It's like you're damned if you listen.. and you're damned if you don't.

This is why you do not feed off of what others think.. but go by what you know and have come to know by your own analisys of the facts.

[Bong30]

This is so true about conspiracy NUTS.....

This is an original Bong30,

THEY TWIST THE TRUTH TO FIT THE HATE.................

lets just sit back and think on that......


start with your hate of Bush, America, blah blah, and then twist the truth to fit the hate........... seams easy for them.

[BobBong]

This is so true about conspiracy NUTS.....

This is an original Bong30,

THEY TWIST THE TRUTH TO FIT THE HATE.................

lets just sit back and think on that......


start with your hate of Bush, America, blah blah, and then twist the truth to fit the hate........... seams easy for them.

This started out as a highschool project didn't it? If i was the teacher i would've specificly pointed out that the mistake was made on the original submission of the video.

Now, why nit-pick such a small mistake? because it shows that the facts are simply NOT there. It would've been different if it was a typed "slip of the finger" but it wasn't he literally said "'Bee' fifty-two bomber." ... the simple fact that they went back and changed it only shows that mistakes can simply be covered up.
Even in a conspiracy.

Makes you really wonder which side of the bread is being buttered here..

But don't take my word for it..

Bob.:stoned:

[Ozarks]

The facts are mean nothing to someone who all ready knows what he "wants" to believe.

[RICVAGANJ]

Bush/Halliburton/Zionist/CIA/New World Order/Illuminati conspiracy for world domination. That day, Popular Mechanics, the magazine I edit, hit newsstands with a story debunking 9/11 conspiracy theories. Within hours, the online community of 9/11 conspiracy buffs - which calls itself the "9/11 Truth Movement" - was aflame with wild fantasies about me, my staff and the article we had published. Conspiracy Web sites labeled Popular Mechanics a "CIA front organization" and compared us to Nazis and war criminals.

For a 104-year-old magazine about science, technology, home improvement and car maintenance, this was pretty extreme stuff. What had we done to provoke such outrage?

Research.

Conspiracy theories alleging that 9/11 was a U.S. government operation are rapidly infiltrating the mainstream. These notions are advanced by hundreds of books, over a million Web pages and even in some college classrooms. The movie "Loose Change," a slick roundup of popular conspiracy claims, has become an Internet sensation.

Worse, these fantasies are gaining influence on the international stage. French author Thierry Meyssan's "The Big Lie," which argues that the U.S. military orchestrated the attacks, was a bestseller in France, and his claims have been widely repeated in European and Middle Eastern media. And recent surveys reveal that, even in moderate Muslim countries such as Turkey and Jordan, majorities of the public believe that no Arab terrorists were involved in the attacks.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion," Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan was fond of saying. "He is not entitled to his own facts." Yet conspiracy theorists want to pick and choose which facts to believe.

Rather than grapple with the huge preponderance of evidence in support of the mainstream view of 9/11, they tend to focus on a handful of small anomalies that they believe cast doubt on the conventional account. These anomalies include the claim that the hole in the Pentagon was too small to have been made by a commercial jet (but just right for a cruise missile); that the Twin Towers were too robustly built to have been destroyed by the jet impacts and fires (so they must have been felled by explosives), and more. If true, these and similar assertions would cast serious doubt on the mainstream account of 9/11.

But they're not true. Popular Mechanics has been fact-checking such claims since late 2004, and recently published a book on the topic. We've pored over transcripts, flight logs and blueprints, and interviewed more than 300 sources - including engineers, aviation experts, military officials, eyewitnesses and members of investigative teams.

In every single case, we found that the very facts used by conspiracy theorists to support their fantasies are mistaken, misunderstood or deliberately falsified.

Here's one example: Meyssan and hundreds of Web sites cite an eyewitness who said the craft that hit the Pentagon looked "like a cruise missile with wings." Here's what that witness, a Washington, D.C., broadcaster named Mike Walter, actually told CNN: "I looked out my window and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming. And I thought, 'This doesn't add up. It's really low.' And I saw it. I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon."

We talked to Walter and, like so many of the experts and witnesses widely quoted by conspiracy theorists, he told us he is heartsick to see the way his words have been twisted: "I struggle with the fact that my comments will forever be taken out of context."

Here's another: An article in the American Free Press claims that a seismograph at Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory picked up signals indicating that large bombs were detonated in the towers. The article quotes Columbia geologist Won-Young Kim and certainly looks authoritative. Yet the truth on this issue is not hard to find. A published Lamont-Doherty report on the seismic record of 9/11 says no such thing. Kim told Popular Mechanics that the publication's interpretation of his research was "categorically incorrect." Yet the claim is repeated verbatim on more than 50 Web sites as well as in the film "Loose Change."

Every 9/11 conspiracy theory we investigated was based on similarly shoddy evidence. Most of these falsehoods are easy to refute simply by checking the original source material or talking to experts in the relevant fields. And yet even the flimsiest claims are repeated constantly in conspiracy circles, passed from Web site to book to Web site in an endless daisy chain. And any witness, expert - or publication - that tries to set the record straight is immediately vilified as being part of the conspiracy.

The American public has every right to ask hard questions about 9/11. And informed skepticism about government and media can be healthy. But skepticism needs to be based on facts, not fallacies. Unfortunately, for all too many, conspiratorial fantasies offer a seductive alternative to grappling with the hard realities of a post-9/11 world.

Thought I would post the original article from Pop mech.

[RICVAGANJ]

Dont any of the conspiracy theroists have any thing to say about this??? Anyone??

[graymatter]

^ Stop, it's like beating up the retarded kid on the bus...

[BobBong]

Only problem is it's taking over 5 years for them to shut up....

[halo]

I watched it and enjoyed it. I wouldnt say the popular mechanics guys won, but neither did the loose change guys. Often times the popular mechanics guys wouldnt answer every question. Sometimes they would point out stuff about conspiracies and theorists that have almost nothing to do with the questions. Either way you look at it was a good debate. Although i think there should be another debate with scientists and engineers debating about the structural damage and things like that. Because honestly, we shouldnt believe a reporter completely on either side. Those guys in the video werent scientists they were journalists. Oh well im just ranting here.

Have a good one!

[Hamlet]

About what I expected. Worked up teenagers without a clue.

[Doctor mj]

I watched it, pretty interesting stuff,
Pop Mech guys were shook, you can tell they were wrong,
Loose change guys name perfect points with no stutters and knew what they were talking about.
Those Pop Mech guys just simply pointed useless examples which had nothing to do with the Loose change movie.
Man i wish i could see you guys like Bong30 and frenchie go in a debate with these guys, they would make you look so stupid.

Well back on the video, They should of made it a longer debate.
Pop Mech guys stutter so much, because they know they are wrong, but they know what there job is, and i respect them for that. (STOP SNITCHING is their policy)

[Ozarks]

^^^^^^^^^


The guys from PM thought about the questions and took there time to give truthful accurate answers that the could defend. That is called standards, professionalism and ethics.

The auto-trons from LC have no barriers to contend with like, reality, standards, or facts, anything that gets in the way of the "conspiracy" is simply dismissed or ignored. They like a parrot (with practice) can repeat the speech with out skipping a beat.

[BobBong]

^^^^^^^^^


The guys from PM thought about the questions and took there time to give truthful accurate answers that the could defend. That is called standards, professionalism and ethics.

The auto-trons from LC have no barriers to contend with like, reality, standards, or facts, anything that gets in the way of the "conspiracy" is simply dismissed or ignored. They like a parrot (with practice) can repeat the speech with out skipping a beat.

Now if we could only give AK47's to the taliban and have them shoot themselves in the feet...we'd be good. :dance: :stoned:

[Doctor mj]

^^^^^^^^^


The guys from PM thought about the questions and took there time to give truthful accurate answers that the could defend. That is called standards, professionalism and ethics.

The auto-trons from LC have no barriers to contend with like, reality, standards, or facts, anything that gets in the way of the "conspiracy" is simply dismissed or ignored. They like a parrot (with practice) can repeat the speech with out skipping a beat.

You gotta be kidding me...........................

[pisshead]

You gotta be kidding me...........................

you're just one of those holocaust deniers...

see, now we're distracted.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery, makers of Loose Change, implied that the Popular Mechanics 9/11 reports are not true because they are influenced by big money, and that the magazine is owned by the Hearst Corporation - which they also assume is complicit in a cover-up of the government's role in carrying out the attack. This is because college students who have little, or no, experience in the "real world" sometimes assume that successful people are all corruptible and money is the only thing that counts. These kids have no ethics themselves to say things like that without proof. They have no respect for themselves, this country, or critical thinking.

Participation in the cover-up of mass murder and treason, for profit, is a serious allegation. The fact that this trash movie has gained any following at all is a very bad reflection on a segment of the generation of the filmmakers that churned it out.
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http://www.debunking911.com/
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
http://wtc.nist.gov
http://www.ccdominoes.com/lc/LooseChangeGuide.html
http://www.historyofjihad.org/future.html