Religion BAH! Phoney

[Baz2137]

yeah so all religion is fake, all it is are old cults that were able to survive the time. its a hoax, why follow something that you cannot see or hear? Some people may label me as ignorant, but I believe it is the other way around, if you follow a religion you are being ignorant about reality. I do belive in some higher power, not god, not jesus, no baloney. For all we know there could be some super high power that just controls our world, galaxy even as a video game like roller coaster tycoon.

End of rant.

[WeedGremblin]

Some people find security and peace in the idea thats why.

Have you even studied any religions at all or are you just talking out of your ass?

[Baz2137]

I just don't see how someone can be that secure with the fact that their preying to nothing, its like getting kids to send letters to santa

[graymatter]

I do belive in some higher power, not god, not jesus, no baloney. For all we know there could be some super high power that just controls our world, galaxy even as a video game like roller coaster tycoon.

You were doing fine until that part... you'll be a bible thumper someday. At least that's what this Jesus guy said down at the river yesterday.

[Captain Hanks]

the bible was written to stop a war it wanst a cult

wrong, the bible was written so that we may have the answer to eternal life

[Lucifuge]

Open your mind a bit and maybe you'll see the whole point to religion.

Money???

[Polymirize]

Money???

money? fuck money man. Money can't buy you happiness.

the point is the chicks.

I mean, catholic schoolgirl vs secular schoolgirl...


oh yeah, and to the original poster; yeah, you are sort of closing yourself off to the point. That wasn't even a good rant.

[Baz2137]

Could you come up with a better rant? I was just stating me views on religion, heck I could make up my own and if enough people could follow it. The belief of the most high power, the god mary jane and her disciples xtc, coke, shrooms and acid, If you use any form of these higher powers all your mistakes in life will be forgiven and you can be in your own imagination with your own world you can control.....i don't even know what i'm saying, but the point is if you tell people to follow something they like thats fake and tell them its real all it does is give them hope, which makes all religion pointless. the end

[Oneironaut]

Religions were initially invented to do two things: (1) explain all kinds of phenomena that nobody could explain before science came along, like disease, weather, ecosystems, the stars, consciousness, etc. and (2) to justify the social norms of a society.

The Bible (at least the Old Testament) was written primarily for the second reason, I believe. The Jews needed a way to justify their traditions and laws, and being somewhat supernaturally-minded because they hadn't yet learned of science, they fit their mystical God character in as the solution. It wasn't enough to just have an arbitrary rule that nobody could eat pig meat, or that homosexuals should be stoned to death, or that wives should submit unquestioningly to their husbands. They had to say that the creator/dictator of the universe commanded it, and thus they are all obliged to follow it, or else it just wouldn't make any sense.

But having read the Old Testament, I have the sneaking suspicion that the God idea was largely molded by the military leaders of the Jews to make them braver fighters when they were conquering other nations. After all, when you're killing all the men of a city, stealing their virgins and expropriating their property, it sure does help when you think you're on a divine mission explicitly ordered by the creator/dictator of the universe, who will always be watching your back to make sure you succeed (as long as you follow him in whatever he tells you to do). That does seem to be a central theme in the Old Testament: follow God unquestioningly and worship him, and he will reward you. When God says it's okay, you kill your neighbors and steal their stuff, and your reward will be the houses, wives, slaves, oxen and asses that you coveted from them (just be sure to ignore those pesky Ten Commandments when following God's orders though).

[Polymirize]

a counter-rant?

very well then...

I think its the height of arrogance to claim knowledge of the boundaries of reality, to say what does and does not count and so claim a full understanding of causality free from "super-natural" causes. I am almost certain that there is more going on behind the scenes so to speak, and so simple humility keeps me from dismissing religion out of hand.

Religion has its faults but I have never seen anyone attempt to justify their own through religion. I have never told someone that they were a horrible person only to have them respond, "well, I'm a catholic". Religion is just one path some people choose to traverse through life. Blaming religion is just a cop out to avoid blaming the choices people make. And once you choose to blame religion instead of simply people's choices, you probably think you're no longer part of the problem.

But you are, because now religious people are just another big "them" category.

end rant.

[Oneironaut]

a counter-rant?

very well then...

I think its the height of arrogance to claim knowledge of the boundaries of reality, to say what does and does not count and so claim a full understanding of causality free from "super-natural" causes.
Nobody is claiming absolute knowledge of anything. All we are doing is asking for evidence that a deity exists, and as long as there is exactly as much evidence for God as there is for unicorns, we realize that both ideas should be treated with about the same level of seriousness. Besides, if real observable evidence of a deity or souls or whatever did surface, they would cease to be "supernatural" phenomena. They would be entirely natural, by definition, since one could detect them and potentially experiment with them, and at least provide empirical evidence that they exist. Such evidence, of course, is entirely lacking, and it is really the height of arrogance to assume that your belief should be taken seriously without any supporting logic or evidence whatsoever, while asking others to back up their claims about reality.

I am almost certain that there is more going on behind the scenes so to speak,
Behind the scenes of what? Where's your evidence?

and so simple humility keeps me from dismissing religion out of hand.
I am not dismissing it out of hand. I am looking at the claims, searching for evidence of them, and realizing that if the evidence is lacking after millennia of searching for it, there probably isn't much to the claims.

Religion has its faults but I have never seen anyone attempt to justify their own through religion.
Really. You've never read much of the Crusades, have you? Or the way Islamic terrorists justify their actions? Or the doctor-murdering anti-abortionists? The ends justify the means, they say, and they have scripture to back up what they've done.

I have never told someone that they were a horrible person only to have them respond, "well, I'm a catholic".
Umm...neither have I... :confused:

Religion is just one path some people choose to traverse through life. Blaming religion is just a cop out to avoid blaming the choices people make. And once you choose to blame religion instead of simply people's choices, you probably think you're no longer part of the problem.
Huh? Are you denying that religion can have influences on people's behaviors? People don't just look through the available religions and choose which one fits them best. Most of the time they are indoctrinated from birth by their parents before they reach the age where they can seriously rationally analyze the claims, and by the time they can they are too emotionally and socially attached to the belief system that they are deathly afraid of giving it up, which is why most people coincidentally have the same religion as their parents (surprise surprise!). People don't make decisions in a vacuum. They are products of their social environments.

But you are, because now religious people are just another big "them" category.

end rant.
Umm, no. I don't hate religious people, or group them all together into one unified category. I just see superstitions, especially ones which promote the idea of an infallible dictator of the universe, as destructive to common sense, rationality, and humanist ethics. We need to deal with problems ourselves here on earth instead of inventing imaginary cosmic justice systems which we think will solve everything for us in the end.

[Polymirize]

I guess my point being is that the worst superstition of all is the belief in rationality, because it sins against itself.

you're making the link between various problems a religious one, and I'm making it more of a human one.

ie, the problem is not that people are so dedicated to their religion, and more that people are not willing to be understanding to others who are different.

hint hint?

[Hamlet]

Well, in our secular view of the world, Religion is pretty outdated and superstitious. It just doesn't seem rational at all in the light of current knowledge.

But...it's here, it's been here for thousands of years, and there are reasons for that. No matter how badly we want to throw it away and sigh at all the troubles it's causing, it's a part of who we are as human beings.

Isn't there the study of Memes? That is, applying Darwinian theory to ideas as we would species to see how they persist in society? I really don't know much about it but the concept is a body of thought goes through the same 'survival of the fittest' test just as species do. I might be totally off but it seems the concepts of God and Gods would apply. In other words, love or hate religion, we probably wouldn't be around or at least at the top of the food chain without it.

Jung talked about 'embracing our shadow' and in a rational, scientific world, maybe it applies to our religious past and present. The Scientific community is antagonistic now towards religion (and rightly so), but on down the road maybe there is greater understanding to be had by acknowledging that the God concept is an integral part of being human.

It's just some ideas I'm starting to play with. Nothing I'm an authority on by any means. But after a large part of my life blowing it all off as hogwash, I'm starting to think I'll never gain much insight until I look backwards and maybe see what it's really all about.

Joseph Campbell wrote 'The Power of Myth' and I'm just now starting to spend some time with it. It seems to me that this is a new perspective on our past and present that might give clues to our possible future?

lol...maybe not and I'm completely full of shit...we'll see :)

[Dais]

hahaha the frist guy has it right because thats all we can do to truely know what god is is impossiable god is obviously something well beyond the mind of man but then again like some one already said so many find direction and comfrot in thier ideas