American Indians Confront Bikers [Archive] - Green Grass Forums

graymatter

08-05-2006, 02:44 AM

By CARSON WALKER, Associated Press Writer

STURGIS, S.D. - American Indians protesting development encroaching on sacred Bear Butte peacefully confronted bikers gathering Friday for a raucous annual motorcycle rally.

The Sturgis Motorcycle Rally, scheduled Aug. 7-13, attracted 525,000 bikers last year and commercial development near the mountain has been driven in a large part by the event.

Indians have come to Bear Butte to pray, fast and hold religious ceremonies for centuries, but say noise from the bars, campgrounds and concert venues disrupts the peace.

"People pray on that mountain and they can't pray when there's a bunch of drunks," said Veronica Kills In Water of Denver, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.

A couple hundred protesters carried signs and chanted "Don't ride 79" as they walked up to the Meade County Courthouse. State Highway 79 goes past the butte and the entertainment sites that are closest to it.

Alex White Plume, president of the Oglala Sioux Tribe, said he will continue to seek a 5-mile buffer zone around the western South Dakota butte to prevent more development.

"We will not give up that fight," White Plume told the crowd.

County commissioners have said they have no basis to deny issuing alcohol licenses and people have the right to use land as they see fit.

Many of the bikers rumbling by on Harley-Davidsons or walking the sidewalk were curious. Police eventually stood between them and the Indians to make sure the demonstration stayed peaceful.

Jack Zimmer of Omaha, Neb., supported the effort to protect the site Indians consider sacred.

"I have to agree there's enough areas that are developed," he said.

John Bolek of Greenbush, Minn., said he's been driving Highway 79 for years during the rally and the protest won't change that. He suggested the protesters were likely angry about not benefiting financially.

One vendor across the street said he paid good money to be there and the demonstration was turning customers away from his booth.

"There were people here before and now they're looking at me like it's my fault," said Kevin Franke of Rumbling Pride, which sells motorcycle flags, kits and other items.

Euphoric

08-07-2006, 06:05 PM

nuke them all i say

psychocat

08-08-2006, 01:05 PM

IMO It was their country first before any of the so called Americans of today laid claim to something they had no right to.

LegallyBlind

08-08-2006, 10:52 PM

Psycho every single nation established today had to take the land from somebody. Do you see other nations being sympathetic to the people they took their land from. Its how the world works.

graymatter

08-09-2006, 02:35 AM

But we americans have a knack for it... Hell, once we subdued the natives here we decided to give a whack everywhere... and we can see that it's working out really swell in the middle east.

paparose

08-09-2006, 12:02 PM

Psycho every single nation established today had to take the land from somebody. Do you see other nations being sympathetic to the people they took their land from. Its how the world works.

well the thing is, your people slaughtered them like animals!!!!
They litterally stole their lands with lies. back then there were Indian hunters (Bill Clintons grandfather for example) and those people killed the natives like savage animals. White folks never fought bravely against them, whites had massive firearm power while indians had arrows and bows. just like the situation between israel and lebanon today. They always told lies to Indians, they always gave them promises that they never kept even one. Whites even gave them blankets with chicken pox viruses on, killing thousands, first biological weapon ever used against a human being, Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?

as the song says I see no bravery....

back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Raping and killing civilians in Iraq? It looks loke not much have changed since indian days. You still kill people without even blinking an eye and you can just walk away cause big brothers are protecting you, sweet..
In 200 years from killing indians to killing iraqis....When these killings gonna be ever over? In order to be the super power some people have to give up lives somewhere? Where is the greatness of this? If it is what it takes to be the super power we should start judging our values and ethics...
A civilization that built on unjustice and blood eventually goes downward...look up the world history there are many examples......

psychocat

08-09-2006, 04:48 PM

Very well said papa

budsmoker

08-10-2006, 12:23 AM

this is the indians country and the white pilgrims stole there land
its a damn shame that indians are so discriminated againts in there country
and then u have all them white rednecks talking bout not 2 let immigrants from come here when its not even there country!

budsmoker

08-10-2006, 12:38 AM

i gurantee u if the indians ran this country weed would legalized, crime would be down, and america would be a much better place 2 live

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 01:54 AM

well the thing is, your people slaughtered them like animals!!!!
They litterally stole their lands with lies. back then there were Indian hunters (Bill Clintons grandfather for example) and those people killed the natives like savage animals. White folks never fought bravely against them, whites had massive firearm power while indians had arrows and bows. just like the situation between israel and lebanon today. They always told lies to Indians, they always gave them promises that they never kept even one. Whites even gave them blankets with chicken pox viruses on, killing thousands, first biological weapon ever used against a human being, Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?

as the song says I see no bravery....

back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Raping and killing civilians in Iraq? It looks loke not much have changed since indian days. You still kill people without even blinking an eye and you can just walk away cause big brothers are protecting you, sweet..
In 200 years from killing indians to killing iraqis....When these killings gonna be ever over? In order to be the super power some people have to give up lives somewhere? Where is the greatness of this? If it is what it takes to be the super power we should start judging our values and ethics...
A civilization that built on unjustice and blood eventually goes downward...look up the world history there are many examples......

Values and ethics?
How many of your relatives were killed in Pearl Harbor or in NY during 9/11? Or raped and killed by the Iraq government?
Get a clue. I'll help you out with one, never bring a knife to a gun fight.

psychocat

08-10-2006, 02:22 AM

Values and ethics?
How many of your relatives were killed in Pearl Harbor or in NY during 9/11? Or raped and killed by the Iraq government?
Get a clue. I'll help you out with one, never bring a knife to a gun fight.

And pray tell what do Pearl Harbour and 9/11 have to do with the original owners of the land you call home?
What about all the Indian women murdered and raped by your own ancestors ?
Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages and even now they are treat like second rate citizens . Where do you think the KKK recruit , I'll tell you where from the decendants of a bunch of killers and rapists
Never bring a knife to a gun fight ?? WTF! That I'm going to ignore simply because I find it such a retarded thing to say.

Please think before you post and at least make it relevant.

graymatter

08-10-2006, 03:39 AM

Talk about Pearl Harbor. Look into the years preceeding 1893 and following in Hawaii... We grew more sophisticated in our expansionism.

With the McKinley tariff, we added extortion to our list of expansionist methods. Hawaii needs a market for sugar, we need ports and westward land. Some things never change.

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 05:43 AM

You are the one who has not thought this out. Do you even read your own posts?

And pray tell what do Pearl Harbour and 9/11 have to do with the original owners of the land you call home?
Previous quote Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?
If you didn't sleep through history you would know the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor AND they were not going to surrender. Many Allied lives would have been lost if the bombs were not dropped.

Never bring a knife to a gun fight ?? WTF! That I'm going to ignore simply because I find it such a retarded thing to say.
Of course you wont comment because of the absurd comment you made earlier. previous quote - back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Just War? The Japanese unprovoked attacked Pearl Harbor. The Germans tried to take over Europe and on the way wipe out the Jews. How is that just?
Why would anyone want to fight a war with an equivalent army when they can have an advantagious one?
You said the answer earlier but misapplied it you said - a retarded thing to say

LegallyBlind

08-10-2006, 05:47 AM

well the thing is, your people slaughtered them like animals!!!!
They litterally stole their lands with lies. back then there were Indian hunters (Bill Clintons grandfather for example) and those people killed the natives like savage animals. White folks never fought bravely against them, whites had massive firearm power while indians had arrows and bows. just like the situation between israel and lebanon today. They always told lies to Indians, they always gave them promises that they never kept even one. Whites even gave them blankets with chicken pox viruses on, killing thousands, first biological weapon ever used against a human being, Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?

as the song says I see no bravery....

back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Raping and killing civilians in Iraq? It looks loke not much have changed since indian days. You still kill people without even blinking an eye and you can just walk away cause big brothers are protecting you, sweet..
In 200 years from killing indians to killing iraqis....When these killings gonna be ever over? In order to be the super power some people have to give up lives somewhere? Where is the greatness of this? If it is what it takes to be the super power we should start judging our values and ethics...
A civilization that built on unjustice and blood eventually goes downward...look up the world history there are many examples......

Why would you risk your life fighting someone with a bow and arrow when you can fight them with a gun. That is an absurd arguement. Have you ever seen any nation or people decide to give up an advantage to make the war fair? No, you take advantage of anything you can.
Where are you from anyway?

Edit: Sorry Pigsnout I did not read your last post. I totally agree with you.

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 05:54 AM

LegallyBlind

08-10-2006, 06:20 AM

paparose

08-10-2006, 11:40 AM

Why would you risk your life fighting someone with a bow and arrow when you can fight them with a gun. That is an absurd arguement. Have you ever seen any nation or people decide to give up an advantage to make the war fair? No, you take advantage of anything you can.
Where are you from anyway?

Edit: Sorry Pigsnout I did not read your last post. I totally agree with you.

because Indians did not have them, your folks did have firearms so that indians were pretty easy to pick on. These days people were talking like that
-samuel I am gonna hunt some indians today!!!!
Indians did not start a fight against your ancestors, yours did. Indians even saved their lives during harsh winter when they were starving to death. (thnaxgiving rings a bell?) Well your folks thanked them by killing them. can u say otherwise?

Your folks literally extincted many indians tribes, their cultures died along them. They even killed millions of buffalos, left to rot, so that Indians would have starved to death.

Dont ever tell me that red neck riders have any rights there!!!!!!!!!

I am not gonna even bother what your granparents did to black people!!!!

Imagine this...A huge dude knocks on your door and when you open your door he rudely invites himself in and occupies your living room. cause he is the bully you cant say a shit. day by day he invades all your apartment. how do you feel it?
think before u act, put yourself in their shoes..
Before everything I wanna state this, I am not anti to anything accept I am antiwrong.
Read "I burried my heart at wounded knee" by Dee Brown, then we talk about Native Americans. I dont think you know your history very well kiddo, but I do.

Do you watch discovery channel?...there it says "Americans knew Japanese were coming in but they did not nothing to prevent it" Just like in 9/11
sacrifice your own people to gather hate against enemy so you can declare war or u can just experince how deadfull your abombs are. Thats not what I say thats how it looks like
of course it is gonna be hard to accept your own fault but hey accepting it is a virtue....

It does not matter where I come from, I am from the earth, you have problem with that?

paparose

08-10-2006, 11:45 AM

Very well said papa

someone has to say something, some people are so blind no matter what you say they will keep living in the darkness of ignorance....

psychocat

08-10-2006, 12:03 PM

You are the one who has not thought this out. Do you even read your own posts?

Previous quote Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?
If you didn't sleep through history [/I]

Please show me where I said that?
Do you mean real History or the American version?

Of course you wont comment because of the absurd comment you made earlier. previous quote - back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Not my quote man, try checking your facts.

To be honest I still hold by what I DID say not what you think I said.

As for being anti-american DILLIGAF !

graymatter

08-10-2006, 01:04 PM

I read some of psychocat's posts and he is just a flat out anti-american. He just hates the USA.

Also I am pretty sure that he is from the UK. Talk about the pot calling The kettle black. Fucking unbelievable.

I read some of Psychos quotes and I think he's right on... According to your logic the only people that have a right to comment on America are Americans... isn't that sort of like representing yourself in court?

BTW - I'm an American

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 07:07 PM

So something that happened 150-200 yearsd ago means it still has an application today? People change and learn you don't.

Alot of people, like myself, had relatives that came over to America and had nothing to do with slavery. If you want to point your finger point it at the people who had slaves, point then at the rich. If you knew your history, obviously you don't, many countries had slaves. I'm not saying it is right but you love to point fingers and single Americas out.

You know little about the attack on Pearl Harbor as well as war. "America knew and did nothing" is the call of the uninformed. You find 1 person who says ?I knew Pearl Harbor was going to be attacked? and you think it's true. Hey chicken little the sky is falling. You spout out half truths and try to rewrite history. Learn before posting garbage.

America is about 250 years old and while not perfect, we've come along way. There will always be uninformed people like yourself who are jealous of the quality of the American way of life. Instead of doing something about your quality of life you try to bring down others to your level. Pathetic.

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 07:10 PM

I read some of Psychos quotes and I think he's right on... According to your logic the only people that have a right to comment on America are Americans... isn't that sort of like representing yourself in court?

BTW - I'm an American
Your logic is seriously flawed. The poster in no way said only Americans can comment. You revise history, revising peoples posts isn't a stretch.

PigSnout

08-10-2006, 07:12 PM

Please show me where I said that?
Do you mean real History or the American version?

keep trying man, It's obvious that history recorded by the people who actually witnessed it have alot more pull than people like you who make weak unfounded attempts at rewriting history.

budsmoker

08-10-2006, 07:21 PM

because Indians did not have them, your folks did have firearms so that indians were pretty easy to pick on. These days people were talking like that
-samuel I am gonna hunt some indians today!!!!
Indians did not start a fight against your ancestors, yours did. Indians even saved their lives during harsh winter when they were starving to death. (thnaxgiving rings a bell?) Well your folks thanked them by killing them. can u say otherwise?

Your folks literally extincted many indians tribes, their cultures died along them. They even killed millions of buffalos, left to rot, so that Indians would have starved to death.

Dont ever tell me that red neck riders have any rights there!!!!!!!!!

I am not gonna even bother what your granparents did to black people!!!!

Imagine this...A huge dude knocks on your door and when you open your door he rudely invites himself in and occupies your living room. cause he is the bully you cant say a shit. day by day he invades all your apartment. how do you feel it?
think before u act, put yourself in their shoes..
Before everything I wanna state this, I am not anti to anything accept I am antiwrong.
Read "I burried my heart at wounded knee" by Dee Brown, then we talk about Native Americans. I dont think you know your history very well kiddo, but I do.

Do you watch discovery channel?...there it says "Americans knew Japanese were coming in but they did not nothing to prevent it" Just like in 9/11
sacrifice your own people to gather hate against enemy so you can declare war or u can just experince how deadfull your abombs are. Thats not what I say thats how it looks like
of course it is gonna be hard to accept your own fault but hey accepting it is a virtue....

It does not matter where I come from, I am from the earth, you have problem with that?

i agree with u :thumbsup:

psychocat

08-10-2006, 07:35 PM

America is about 250 years old and while not perfect, we've come along way. There will always be uninformed people like yourself who are jealous of the quality of the American way of life. Instead of doing something about your quality of life you try to bring down others to your level. Pathetic.
One little flaw in your logic.
I would hate to live there, I'm very happy where I am, doing what I do.

LegallyBlind

08-10-2006, 09:29 PM

Thanks for defending me PigSnout.
Not once did I say only Americans can comment on this so I have no idea where you got that from. Also saying that the leaders of the USA knew about Pearl Harbor and knew about 9/11 before it happened is just ridiculous. I am so sick of these bullshit, extremely far-fetched conspiracy theories that have no truth to them at all. Show me any of your evidence to those claims.

Secondly saying that we killed the buffalo to starve out the native americans is something that you just pulled out of your ass. Did you for once think about how diverse the overall native american population is? Did you think that every single native american survived off of buffalo alone? That is certainly not true. The majority of natives did not even eat or hunt buffalo at all. If you take a look at your history books and do a little research you will find that native americans were not the great conservationists you think they were. Many native american tribes completely depleted all of their resources and hunted many animals to near extinction.

Pigsnout is right on when he says that Americans are picked out and blamed for things that we are not the only ones that have done them.

PsychoCat why will you not answer me when I ask you where you are from?

psychocat

08-10-2006, 09:41 PM

Why does where I am from matter? I'm not from any one place in particular but if I had to choose a nationality then I would say I am more Dutch than anything else.

The issue at question is the USA's treatment of modern Indians not ancient ones. The planned rally is just an ongoing example of the disrespect shown to the original inhabitants since settlers arrived there and unfortunately it shows no sign of changing.
Americans talk about "RESPECT" I see very little respect shown by you and people who think like you.

LegallyBlind

08-10-2006, 09:57 PM

The bikers have as much of a right to use the roads and local establishments as the natives have to go and pray on Bear Butte. Its not like the bikers are abusing or harrassing the natives they are simply hurting the natives with all their noise.
You say the issue is the USA's treatment of "modern Indians" yet early you posted about the USA having no right to the land and stealing it from the natives...hmmm...

IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE READ THIS
\/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/ \/

I am mostly European and I have a little bit of Cherokee and an even smaller ammount of Hopi in me. The slaughtering of native americans was done by a small group of people and you need to realize that all Americans are immigrants and many are recent immigrants in that last 100 years. We weren't all here in the beggining. We didn't all have slaves, and we didn't all participate in every single negative aspect of our culture that ever happened. America is made up of thousands of different cultures all brought together and that is why it is great.

budsmoker

08-10-2006, 10:38 PM

LegallyBlind

08-10-2006, 11:31 PM

well then why dont america let immigrants from mexico and central america come here legaly?

Since when can immigrants and Mexico and Central America not come her legally? The big issue is not that people are coming here legally, it is that they are crossing the border and coming here ilegally. Do you know what my family and what thousands of other families had to go through to become citizens of the United States? Do you know about all of the people going through the legal process to become Americans? These illegal immigrants mock what all the upright people going through the process of coming here legally.

All you people want to do is fight. This thread has strayed so far from the origional topic its disgusting. I try to put and end to this silly arguement, and I get flamed and attacked for something totally different. This is unbelievable.

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 02:01 AM

Since when can immigrants and Mexico and Central America not come her legally? The big issue is not that people are coming here legally, it is that they are crossing the border and coming here ilegally. Do you know what my family and what thousands of other families had to go through to become citizens of the United States? Do you know about all of the people going through the legal process to become Americans? These illegal immigrants mock what all the upright people going through the process of coming here legally.

All you people want to do is fight. This thread has strayed so far from the origional topic its disgusting. I try to put and end to this silly arguement, and I get flamed and attacked for something totally different. This is unbelievable.

where do u live at they cant come 2 the u.s. legally

LegallyBlind

08-11-2006, 02:09 AM

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 02:27 AM

I live in California. Mexicans can come to this country legally like anybody else, but theres a process they must go through to get in and get citizenship. Do you honestly think that no Mexicans can come into this country legally? I am in shock and awe of your ignorance and your willingness to argue without knowing any facts at all.

your the 1 with no facts if thats the case why are so many of them dying when there trying 2 cross the border and there always sending them back 4 no reason
did the indians make the bitch ass pilgrims sign any forms 2 come 2 america? hell no they just jacked them 4 there land

LegallyBlind

08-11-2006, 03:03 AM

your the 1 with no facts if thats the case why are so many of them dying when there trying 2 cross the border and there always sending them back 4 no reason
did the indians make the bitch ass pilgrims sign any forms 2 come 2 america? hell no they just jacked them 4 there land

Budsmoker, you have got to be kidding me. I am going to try to explain this simply for you. When you are reading this read it out loud and very slowly to yourself.

Mexicans can come to the United States and even live here like anybody else as long as the go through the LEGAL immigration process which requires going to the embassy and lots and lots of paper work. The reason these Mexicans are dying crossing the border and "being sent back for no reason" is because it is illegal to cross the border and come into the US without proper documentation and paper work.

graymatter

08-11-2006, 03:40 AM

Folks, why should middle class bikers in their designer Harley Davidson gear get a free pass on respect for native culture?

Granted, what happened 150 - 200 years ago in the context of natives and slavery is a matter of record; the behavior and arrogance in U.S. policy and american culture continues. If you want to talk about relavent history go back to 1893 with Hawaii and follow the events of subsequent U.S. led coups and overthrows in Cuba, Panama (aka Columbia), Nicuragua, Honduras, Iran, Guatemala, and Chile.

And if you want to know who (i.e., the kind of thinking) sponsored our not-so-well-thought-out expansionism, look at these quotes from the article that started this thread:

"John Bolek of Greenbush, Minn., said he's been driving Highway 79 for years during the rally and the protest won't change that. He suggested the protesters were likely angry about not benefiting financially.

One vendor across the street said he paid good money to be there and the demonstration was turning customers away from his booth."

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 05:38 AM

Budsmoker, you have got to be kidding me. I am going to try to explain this simply for you. When you are reading this read it out loud and very slowly to yourself.

Mexicans can come to the United States and even live here like anybody else as long as the go through the LEGAL immigration process which requires going to the embassy and lots and lots of paper work. The reason these Mexicans are dying crossing the border and "being sent back for no reason" is because it is illegal to cross the border and come into the US without proper documentation and paper work.

how the fuck would u know are u from mexico and have u ever tried 2 cross the border? if that was fuckin true then they would be doing it, that or the dumbass government arent telling them

LegallyBlind

08-11-2006, 07:01 AM

how the fuck would u know are u from mexico and have u ever tried 2 cross the border? if that was fuckin true then they would be doing it, that or the dumbass government arent telling them

Budsmoker you truly are a fucking dumbass. Do you think that all Mexicans in the US are illegal. Crossing the border ilegally is not how you become a citizen. This is:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/citizenship_application.html

Now you need to stop bitching about how Mexicans can't become Americans. I'm really wondering if you're serious or if you are just doing this to try and get me angry.

psychocat

08-11-2006, 11:01 AM

In 1675 and 1676, the Jamestown colony was torn by conflict. War between American Indians and colonists led to civil war within the colony. Since 1646a treaty which gave the Powhatan Indians exclusive rights to land north of the York River had kept relations between the Indians and Virginians calm. The established settlers and Governor Berkeley, who controlled the Indian trade,wanted to maintain good relations with Indians and avoid conflict. But new settlers and white indentured servants who had served their time, were hungry for Indian land. In the summer of 1675 a group of frontiersmen found an excuse to attack the Susquehannocks, whose land they coveted. Although the governor tried to keep peace, few settlers supported him and both sides prepared for war.Militarily weak but feeling wronged and wanting revenge, the Susquehannocks attacked during the winter of 1675-1676, killing thirty-six Virginians. That spring,the frontiersmen, led by Nathaniel Bacon, launched a campaign of indiscriminate warfare against friendly and unfriendly Indians. Ignoring the frontiersmenâ??s petitions for support and infuriated by their blatant disregard of his order to desist,the governor sent 300 militiamen to bring Bacon to Jamestown. Baconâ??s war on the American Indians had become a civil war.

BACON'S REBELLION
Bacon's Rebellion was probably one of the most confusing yet intriguing chapters in Jamestown's history. For many years, historians considered the Virginia Rebellion of 1676 to be the first stirring of revolutionary sentiment in America, which culminated in the American Revolution almost exactly one hundred years later. However, in the past few decades, based on findings from a more distant viewpoint, historians have come to understand Bacon's Rebellion as a power struggle between two stubborn, selfish leaders rather than a glorious fight against tyranny.

Greed was the driving force.

latewood

08-11-2006, 12:27 PM

Yeah right...Now after being practically wiped out, and herded to some god for saken area as a last resort...You want to open a beer parlor right in their backyard...Man, that's fucked up.

One could say I'm a biker or at least I have been associated with quite a few bikers for many years...but, I also have a bit of seneca indian in my tree...I personally think that what was done in the name of railroads and gold...etc. was a travesty far worse than slavery; Which started with the warring faction's in africa selling their prisoners to the dutch. Oh yeah, I am a bit of dutch german also...

anyone here that feels they can criticize Americans for their actions in 230 years...only has to look back at the Brits and the roman Cathoilic church for 1000's of years of travesty, murder, and lies.

so, basically, we are all in the same boat...peace

LegallyBlind

08-11-2006, 04:30 PM

anyone here that feels they can criticize Americans for their actions in 230 years...only has to look back at the Brits and the roman Cathoilic church for 1000's of years of travesty, murder, and lies.

so, basically, we are all in the same boat...peace

You're right on Latewood. Every single group of people, including the native americans has committed horible atrocities so nittpicking at what America did hundreds of years ago, and what no one here today had a say in or can do anything about is just a low blow.

Why does where I am from matter? I'm not from any one place in particular but if I had to choose a nationality then I would say I am more Dutch than anything else.

The issue at question is the USA's treatment of modern Indians not ancient ones. The planned rally is just an ongoing example of the disrespect shown to the original inhabitants since settlers arrived there and unfortunately it shows no sign of changing.
Americans talk about "RESPECT" I see very little respect shown by you and people who think like you.

What happened to the issue not being the USA's treatment of "ancient ones"?

psychocat

08-11-2006, 05:26 PM

You're right on Latewood. Every single group of people, including the native americans has committed horible atrocities so nittpicking at what America did hundreds of years ago, and what no one here today had a say in or can do anything about is just a low blow.

IT IS THE CONTINUED ABUSE !
HAPPENING "TODAY" !!!

What happened to the issue not being the USA's treatment of "ancient ones"?

The issue at question is the USA's treatment of modern Indians not ancient ones. .
Please read more carefully.
You misunderstood the comment,or are choosing to be deliberately obtuse, it is not about ancient history.

the image reaper

08-11-2006, 08:02 PM

throw this fact into the mix: ... my next-door neighbor is a LEGAL Mexican immigrant, who HATES the illegal wetbacks sneaking over the border ... he and his wife patiently studied and completed the requirements for citizenship, and are proud Americans that resent people taking the 'easy' way into America, and is disgusted with people wanting to give a free pass to illegals unwilling to go through the necessary steps to LEGAL immigration ... I love and respect the Mexican immigrants, and understand WHY they want to be here, but they need to do it legally ... sneaking over the border in a lot of countries will get you shot, not just a free bus ride back to your country ... where in the hell were all you bleeding-hearts when people were being shot for climbing the Berlin Wall, or murdered on their return to Cuba ?? ... fucking phonyass crybaby liberals piss me off ... :mad:

psychocat

08-11-2006, 09:36 PM

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 10:21 PM

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 10:23 PM

Pray tell what this has to do with American Indians ?

all mexicans have indian blood in them

budsmoker

08-11-2006, 10:29 PM

Budsmoker you truly are a fucking dumbass. Do you think that all Mexicans in the US are illegal. Crossing the border ilegally is not how you become a citizen. This is:

http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/citizenship_application.html

Now you need to stop bitching about how Mexicans can't become Americans. I'm really wondering if you're serious or if you are just doing this to try and get me angry.

do u know how long that shit takes? they come here 2 work and help their famalies, who the fuck are white people 2 say if mexicans need 2 fill out paper 2 work, this aint the white mans country its the indians, and if the u.s. wouldnt haven jacked mexico nd the indians 4 thir land the u.s. wouldnt have shit. the u.s. just likes 2 gang up on countrys who they know are poor and dont have the type of weopons they do, and then they wonder why all the other countries hate them

psychocat

08-11-2006, 11:33 PM

True,,, I was a little slow there man, my apologies.
The Conquistadors were just as bad as the Europeans who settled in the north.

dank ass nugs

08-12-2006, 01:17 AM

dank ass nugs

08-12-2006, 01:38 AM

^ thats to you people who are racist to whites but as far as the topic goes the bikers should leave because its the native americans religious ground like a church for christians but the native americans should also be forced to pay for the land if they want it for themselves and no one else Christians,jews,muslims and other religions pay for there church,sinagog,mousk so the native american should pay for there place. I do think the bikers are wrong and should respect the native americans but it is a public place I can go to a park and have a picnic for 20 years on the same day every year until 1 year a group of fat hairy topless guys then call the cops and get them to leave. You know what the cops will say? they will tell me to deal with it and to respect one another. Maybe the Native Americans can accept the bikers being there for a day as long as they bikers respect the land.

psychocat

08-12-2006, 01:44 AM

Dank did you read what this "IS" about.

The continued ignorance and disrespect shown "TODAY" towards Native Americans , namely the desecration of what to them is a very important place, a place I might add that rightfuly belongs to them.

LegallyBlind

08-12-2006, 03:15 AM

Dank I totally agree with you. There is a lot of racism towards whites. Probably more than towards any other group in the USA today. Even when applying for college and jobs minorities have a pryority to whites. Affirmitive action its bullshit.

Budsmoker, you're a moron. You said that Mexicans can't come to the US legally, I showed you evidence and then you say who wants to go through all that bullshit. Well thats what it takes if you want to be an American, so all the Mexicans that don't want to deal with that shit can get their asses deported and try again tommorow.

budsmoker

08-12-2006, 03:17 AM

Fuck these topics im a white male and i have never held a gun to a Native American and took his house nor have I forced a african american to farm my land. Sure what happened to the ancestors of Native americans and some african americans was terrible but that doesnt matter anymore slavery doesnt exist here anymore and to say that im a bad person because whites in the past had slaves and took land from slaves is racism towards me and I take offence. I dont owe any minority a thing I have done NOTHING wrong to them. To make you feel good the next Native american I meet who has had his land taken away for no reason or the Next African American I meet who was a slave I will hand them a .45 and tell them to shoot the guy who did it but that will NEVER happen. To all you minorities reading this YOU WERE NOT WRONGED YOUR ANCESTERS WERE. Hell my dead great grandfather was owed money by Frank Lloyd Wright I think im gonna go file a lawsuit tomorrow. IT WAS WRONG BUT ITS OVER ITS 2006 AND NO RACES ARE BEING OPPRESSED IN THE U.S. TODAY. STOP BEING A RACIST TOWARDS WHITES:mad: AND TO "BUDSMOKER" ITS NOT ALL WHITES STOPPING MEXICANS ITS ASIANS,BLACKS,NATIVE AMERICANS,AND LEGAL MEXICANS AND WHEN DID THE U.S. TAKE OVER MEXICO OOO WAIT NEVER

they took over mexico sometime in the 1800's, some of the states they took was california, arizona, and texas just 2 name a few, and that is bullshit that there still aint racisom in america, what about new orleans, george bush let a lot blacks die, and everytime i watch tv i see some rednecks always talking bout the mexicans are taking thir jobs when mexicans do most jobs whites wont do, and if your a minority and get stopped by white cops theres a good chance there gonna beat the fuck out of u even if u did no wrong, and i could go on 4 hours about how the white goverment is racist but im tired of typing:mad:

PigSnout

08-12-2006, 04:02 AM

and everytime i watch tv i see some rednecks always talking bout the mexicans are taking thir jobs when mexicans do most jobs whites wont do,
Clueless and racist again. The illegals are doing jobs that not many want at that payrate, not just whites.
People know they can pay illegals less. If the illegals are receiving ONLY 1 dollar an hour less than legal workers that works out to $40 per 40 hour work week. Times that by 52 weeks and that's just over $2000 a year difference. $2000 A YEAR IS ON THE LOW END!!!! $2 dollars an hour is $4000 a year. Put your racist and anti American thoughts aside and think about that figure for a moment.

PigSnout

08-12-2006, 04:10 AM

Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages
Dear Mel Gibson,
You forget about the 6 million Jews killed during WW2? More Jews killed than the total approximate population of Native Americans. It's easy to overlook I guess, I mean it's only 6 million Jews right. Just a drop in the bucket to guys like you, huh? Oh that's right you think it never happened.

budsmoker

08-12-2006, 04:55 AM

Clueless and racist again. The illegals are doing jobs that not many want at that payrate, not just whites.
People know they can pay illegals less. If the illegals are receiving ONLY 1 dollar an hour less than legal workers that works out to $40 per 40 hour work week. Times that by 52 weeks and that's just over $2000 a year difference. $2000 A YEAR IS ON THE LOW END!!!! $2 dollars an hour is $4000 a year. Put your racist and anti American thoughts aside and think about that figure for a moment.

but people legally are making a lot more than 1 more dollar per hour than illegals, not 2 mention illegals also cant have insurance and shit like that, no other race in america works a hard as hispanics 4 that kind of price, all they want 2 do is help support there family just like everybody else does, id hate 2 see this country if hispanics stop working in america

PigSnout

08-12-2006, 05:15 AM

but people legally are making a lot more than 1 more dollar per hour than illegals, not 2 mention illegals also cant have insurance and shit like that, no other race in america works a hard as hispanics 4 that kind of price, all they want 2 do is help support there family just like everybody else does, id hate 2 see this country if hispanics stop working in america

Agreed. The Hispanics are indeed very hard workers. But I don't buy the claim from the fatcats who say "my business wouldn't make it without the cheap labor. If there is a market for a business and one guy can't make another one will. After a few generations do you think the hispanic population in America will work for low wages? I don't
The main problem is the money isn't going back into the system through payroll taxes as well as on on goods within the US. Instead the money is being sent out of the country.

budsmoker

08-12-2006, 05:25 AM

Agreed. The Hispanics are indeed very hard workers. But I don't buy the claim from the fatcats who say "my business wouldn't make it without the cheap labor. If there is a market for a business and one guy can't make another one will. After a few generations do you think the hispanic population in America will work for low wages? I don't
The main problem is the money isn't going back into the system through payroll taxes as well as on on goods within the US. Instead the money is being sent out of the country.

see i dont believe that. people born in america get lazier every year imo
im not saying there are not hard working americans but there isnt enough of them that do the kind of jobs hispanics do, how many americans do u think would last working in the fields 8-12 hours a day in 100 degree weather and then get paid shit? not many i dont think

PigSnout

08-12-2006, 10:19 AM

I'm going to assume you mean the Americans who have been here awhile. I'll address your post that way. More Americans are getting college level degrees or going to tech schools and not needing to do "entry" level jobs and labor intensive jobs UNLESS they pay well. That's not too hard to figure. Which job are you going to take if you have a choice? The illegals don't have that option.
But like I said as an example - if bosses are paying illegals $2 an hour less than legals that adds up to $4000 a year. You may not do a job for 16000 but will for 20000. Pay the higher wage and you attract the legals, dont and you get the illegals. And obviously since not much is being done about the illegal aliens people will continue to hire them.
Quite a few years back relatives from Down Under said the same thing, immigrants are needed for the hard labor jobs because the legals wont do it. The legals can get better paying jobs elsewhere. That's what it's all about the money.

psychocat

08-12-2006, 04:38 PM

Dear Mel Gibson,
You forget about the 6 million Jews killed during WW2? More Jews killed than the total approximate population of Native Americans. It's easy to overlook I guess, I mean it's only 6 million Jews right. Just a drop in the bucket to guys like you, huh? Oh that's right you think it never happened.

I forget nothing but what point are you trying to make?
Because 6 million Jews died that gives the US the right to tell the natives "yeah man think how many jews died"???

Because the jews died that excuses the current behaviour of the people of the states who are racist towards Indians?

Stick with the programme man.

This thread has nothing to do with Jews.
Why do you keep bringing them into a discussion about the modern day Indians ?

Typical ! trying to deviate from the main point is useless I will continue to bring it back to the real issue.

LegallyBlind

08-12-2006, 06:16 PM

psychocat

08-12-2006, 06:35 PM

Psychocat do you not realize that Pigsnout made that comment because of your lie about ethnic cleansing on a level not seen since the Middle Ages? Quit warping what everyone else says and telling them not to go off topic when they are giving a relevant arguement to your lies.

So rather than face the issue at hand you choose to nitpick over the debateable question of wether the biggest act of genocide was carried out against the American indiginous population or the Jews.
Tell me how that redresses the balance?
Or for that matter how pointing to the crimes of another somehow lets America off the hook as far as modern day treatment of the Indians is concerned??
Get real man.

Thats like saying yeah but Hitler picked on gipsies so it's ok for us to discriminate against the French????? WTF,it doesn't work that way does it.

Forget the jews for one minute and realise that the "CURRENT TREATMENT" of American natives is wrong !!!

LegallyBlind

08-12-2006, 07:03 PM

So rather than face the issue at hand you choose to nitpick over the debateable question of wether the biggest act of genocide was carried out against the American indiginous population or the Jews.
Tell me how that redresses the balance?
Or for that matter how pointing to the crimes of another somehow lets America off the hook as far as modern day treatment of the Indians is concerned??
Get real man.

Thats like saying yeah but Hitler picked on gipsies so it's ok for us to discriminate against the French????? WTF,it doesn't work that way does it.

Forget the jews for one minute and realise that the "CURRENT TREATMENT" of American natives is wrong !!!

No psychocat. We're not nitpicking over whicc is a bigger genocide. YOU TOLD A FLAT OUT LIE AND WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH IT. You can't just say whatever you want that sounds good and makes yourself look good if its not true. So when you get called out on a lie you told don't try to weasel your way out of it by saying stick to the issue at hand.
You are unbelievable!

psychocat

08-12-2006, 07:50 PM

No psychocat. We're not nitpicking over whicc is a bigger genocide. YOU TOLD A FLAT OUT LIE AND WE'RE NOT LETTING YOU GET AWAY WITH IT. You can't just say whatever you want that sounds good and makes yourself look good if its not true. So when you get called out on a lie you told don't try to weasel your way out of it by saying stick to the issue at hand.
You are unbelievable!

1 The 6 million Jews you talk of weren't just jews they were anyone who dared to question the nazi regime and what that has to do with America and it's treatment of native americans today really is NOTHING!
2 IMO the eradication of a whole tribe is worse.
3 Stop trying to distract from the matter by pointing out others failings (the sign of a weak or useless argument).
4 I believe an ongoing problem is not going to get solved if people like yourself refuse to accept that what is happening now is WRONG and repeatedly harp on about "but what about the ______ Nazis and the KKK and the ancient Romans" or whatever.
5 Why should the original owners of a country have to obey rules made by invaders?
What is unbelievable is the attempts to justify the BS going on in the US TODAY.

latewood

08-12-2006, 07:56 PM

dank, the native indians owned the land in then1st place...did you read the article? It said that sturgis festival has caused a sprawl towards the butte. Sturgis itself is not the encroachment...it is the sprawl and new construction that has the Natives up in arms. Geez...buy their own land...what a meathead!

slowthestone

08-12-2006, 08:44 PM

ffs...no really...FFS!

I've had it with the term 'Native American'...could it be anymore inappropriately assigned?

Where ever you as a person were born, makes you native to that region/area/local --- I was born in America, therefore I am a native American. If I was born on Mars, I'd not be an Earthling, I'd be a Martian.

As far as the widely misused term and how it applies to Indian cultures of the Americas...

Where did 'Native Americans' come from? Did they just pop up out of the ground?

No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.

There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.

As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.

Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.

One should also consider...American Indians were/are people too. They warred, they plundered. They would invade and sieze that which belonged to rival tribes ffs. Europeans did to them what many of them were already doing to one another. In other words, many of them were every bit the opportunist that the Europeans were...had the roles been reversed, human nature practically demands that Indians, if they had had better technology, would have been the ones infringing upon the Europeans.

What, you think that if 50,000 Indians sailed the atlantic, settled on the shores of a European nation, that they would have just planted maze and left the locals alone?

Yeah...fat chance eh.

So in closing...all the talk, and the bullshit about Europeans taking land all those centuries ago, and the ensuining ideal that somehow the decendants are owed something, is utter crap. The decendants of those peoples that were pushed out have about as much right to retribution as I do toward going to Germany and declaring they owe me something for how life was there 179 years ago that prompted an ancestor to pack up and leave for America.

Now, as far as a fukn panty waste biker rally is concerned...everything about such an event is absurd. Developing anything, be it land or business, for an annual event is so damn stupid I could choke.
Fukn noise polluters ought to have their own town somewhere. They're ignorant lot with a blatant disregard toward how loud and intrusive their ride of choice is.

So Indian peoples or not...I vote that anything biker related be kept confined to places where only they suffer hearing loss!

frogman81900323

08-13-2006, 01:08 AM

No...they walked here...from Asia, via a land bridge that previously connected North America and Asia. So they were not at all native in that sense...they were a migrating people.

There are several theories/stories concerning the originals or Aboriginal peoples in this continent. You offer only one.

There were no Native Americans until people began being born in the region. Which again is why...I myself am native to America...which is why my Caucasian-self is a Native American.

Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.

As far as taking a country goes...that again is a false statement. There was no country, per se, to take.

Of all the various North American Indian tribes, of which there were dozens...nothing was developed. Nothing was proclimated. Nothing was even remotely permanent about where and how they would settle. They were almost nearly always on the move. So if anything, their territories were infringed upon by Europeans who went on to establish towns, governments, European ways of life etc.

First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? :( And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:

slowthestone

08-13-2006, 01:39 AM

There are several theories/stories concerning the originals or Aboriginal peoples in this continent. You offer only one.

It is no theory. Asian artifacts, that pre-date Indian tribes, but were manufactored after the land bridge was lost to the rising waters...have been being documented for several years now. As in, unless Asians threw these artifacts across the Baltic Sea, the people that made them did so from techniques passed through the generations.

Indeed, you may very well be, but you are not of the First Nations.

That's a blind statement. For all you or I know, an ancestor of mine had a Inuit or Metis mate. It matters not though for fact that Homosapien originated in Africa. Peoples of the First Nation are claiming the wrong land as home.

First, there was not a single political entity, but there were many sophisticated, advanced nations before the Spaniards. The capacity for industrial slaughter is not the only hallmark of an advanced society is it? :( And they did have understanding in terms of land use and general territorial stewardship, although they have not suffered with the colonizer's presumptive arrogance in believing they have the ability to own land - incredible! This land was not "terra nullis," it was shared among many nations, among all the creatures of the earth! :stoned:

Then if all the land was no one's to claim...why do decendants of American Indian tribes go around claiming one location or another belongs to them?

Or better...why do they, today, hold deeds on/for land and man made structures?

My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.

Even though many practiced a lifestyle that was motivated on being harmonious with nature...they were still human.

Is this the part where I cite all the pitfalls of humanity?

frogman81900323

08-13-2006, 01:47 AM

My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's
been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.

Yeah, they're human and not more human than anyone else, but a great injustice has been handed to them for the past 150 years or longer. And there is no romanticizing that plain, cold fact away. It won't disappear because we wish it. There need's to be some discussion. Break out the peace pipes and fill 'em with the sweetest grass of em' all, bruthaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaa!

frogman81900323

08-13-2006, 09:56 PM

I guess it just makes me mad to think that some old farts with their kitsch motorcycles and leather tassles disturb significant religious ceremonies. I guess it shouldn't surprise me but still you would think they would have more class than that!

PigSnout

09-08-2006, 10:56 AM

1 The 6 million Jews you talk of weren't just jews they were anyone who dared to question the nazi regime and what that has to do with America and it's treatment of native americans today really is NOTHING!

The 6 million WERE Jews, millions of others were murdered by nazis as well.

psychocat

09-08-2006, 01:13 PM

The 6 million WERE Jews, millions of others were murdered by nazis as well.

Way off topic.

How does this relate to what is a question of respect towards the spiritual feelings of the Indians ?

They were there first so why should a biker rally take precedence?

PigSnout

09-12-2006, 09:57 AM

Way off topic.

How does this relate to what is a question of respect towards the spiritual feelings of the Indians ?

They were there first so why should a biker rally take precedence?

Way off topic? You were the one who first mentioned it. Put the pipe down down for a bit before answering next time. LMAO

psychocat

09-12-2006, 10:49 PM

Way off topic? You were the one who first mentioned it. Put the pipe down down for a bit before answering next time. LMAO

Wrong !
You have an extremely short and distorted memory.
You mentioned the Nazi attempt to eradicate the Jews not I.
Whole tribes were wiped out in America, the killing of the jews had fuck all to do with that.
I was replying to your off topic remark.

This thread is about something different altogether.

I see it as respect not given by Sturgis and the bikers (PS I am a biker myself) to people who should be left in peace after all the shit they've had to put up with through the years.

Discrimination based on the idea that the European settlers were somehow superior to the "savages".

PigSnout

09-13-2006, 02:21 AM

Wrong !
You have an extremely short and distorted memory.
You mentioned the Nazi attempt to eradicate the Jews not I.
Whole tribes were wiped out in America, the killing of the jews had fuck all to do with that.
I was replying to your off topic remark.

This thread is about something different altogether.
You don't get it. paparose first brought the topic up. Then you a few posts down Very well said papa
Agreeing with it, supporting his statements, his thought process.
But not your words? Same thing.

I see it as respect not given by Sturgis and the bikers (PS I am a biker myself) to people who should be left in peace after all the shit they've had to put up with through the years.
I agree

Discrimination based on the idea that the European settlers were somehow superior to the "savages".
you lost me

canucktoker

09-13-2006, 06:07 AM

i gurantee u if the indians ran this country weed would legalized, crime would be down, and america would be a much better place 2 live

Can you point to anything indians run successfully? The indian casino here has indians parking cars, serving drinks, checking id, doing everything but handling money. Why is that? I once saw a media report on a big ceremony, the government built all these new buildings on the reserve, and it was so great. 6 months later every window was smashed and the place was trashed. No one will convince me that they would do good job of running shit. Sorry if it sounds racist, but i rarely see indians doing anything but drink. Im not calling them savages but to act like they were the eco hippies of the 1400s is revision of history. Some parts of canada, like the praries, are overun with indian gangs and crime. I think alot of people have a very very romanticised idea of indians.
BTW sturgis is an american institution now. It brings millions to the state of whatever dakota that is from all over the world. Ruining some indian prayers, fuck off. That area is giant empty place all those states like montana dakota etc are like no people per square mile, pray somewhere else. Alot of times it only becomes "sacred land" when people want to develop it and the indians think they can get some money out of it. Ive seen it over and over again. How long does sturgis even last? A week? People in daytona put up with it, suck it up.

graymatter

09-13-2006, 01:45 PM

"the government built all these new buildings on the reserve, and it was so great. 6 months later every window was smashed and the place was trashed."

I guess the Indians didn't think they were so great....LOL

psychocat

09-13-2006, 11:31 PM

You don't get it. paparose first brought the topic up. Then you a few posts down Very well said papa
Agreeing with it, supporting his statements, his thought process.
But not your words? Same thing.

Wrong again

well the thing is, your people slaughtered them like animals!!!!
They litterally stole their lands with lies. back then there were Indian hunters (Bill Clintons grandfather for example) and those people killed the natives like savage animals. White folks never fought bravely against them, whites had massive firearm power while indians had arrows and bows. just like the situation between israel and lebanon today. They always told lies to Indians, they always gave them promises that they never kept even one. Whites even gave them blankets with chicken pox viruses on, killing thousands, first biological weapon ever used against a human being, Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?

as the song says I see no bravery....

back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Raping and killing civilians in Iraq? It looks loke not much have changed since indian days. You still kill people without even blinking an eye and you can just walk away cause big brothers are protecting you, sweet..
In 200 years from killing indians to killing iraqis....When these killings gonna be ever over? In order to be the super power some people have to give up lives somewhere? Where is the greatness of this? If it is what it takes to be the super power we should start judging our values and ethics...
A civilization that built on unjustice and blood eventually goes downward...look up the world history there are many examples......

This is the post I said well said to, please indicate where it mentions the Nazi extermination of Jews ?

Dear Mel Gibson,
You forget about the 6 million Jews killed during WW2? More Jews killed than the total approximate population of Native Americans. It's easy to overlook I guess, I mean it's only 6 million Jews right. Just a drop in the bucket to guys like you, huh? Oh that's right you think it never happened.

It would seem that you were in fact the first to mention the Jews plight in Germany.

Do you get called colostomy bag a lot ??

Cause you are really full of shit.

Indians not Jews are the issue now please stop with the BS distraction tactics.

PigSnout

09-15-2006, 05:53 PM

Wrong again
This is the post I said well said to, please indicate where it mentions the Nazi extermination of Jews ?
It would seem that you were in fact the first to mention the Jews plight in Germany.
Do you get called colostomy bag a lot ??
Cause you are really full of shit.
Indians not Jews are the issue now please stop with the BS distraction tactics.
Your mouth and racist garbage is where the stink is.
your post
And pray tell what do Pearl Harbour and 9/11 have to do with the original owners of the land you call home?
What about all the Indian women murdered and raped by your own ancestors ?
Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages and even now they are treat like second rate citizens . Where do you think the KKK recruit , I'll tell you where from the decendants of a bunch of killers and rapists
Never bring a knife to a gun fight ?? WTF! That I'm going to ignore simply because I find it such a retarded thing to say.
Please think before you post and at least make it relevant.
My bad sometimes I think everyone can think outside the box, you cannot.
First off the Pearl Harbor reference was in response to the idiotic "lets everybody fight with the same weapons".
Then you jump right in with "Ethnic cleansing on a scale never seen since the middle ages "
Still with me?
(btw-This is what you do, trying to relate something that happened over 200 years ago to something today.)
Now take it to the next level which is your point about bringing up the Holocaust. The Holocaust=ethnic cleansing. I think most people are in agreement that these are similar. You in fact brought the issue up before I did. My post was in response and related to your post.

psychocat

09-15-2006, 10:40 PM

Racist ? Resorting to name calling?

Indians massacred long before the Jewish death camps(again I must point out that not everyone who died was Jewish) and therefore at that time were unprecedented (Don't forget the massacres carried out by the conquistadors).

Regardles the comparison is really neither here nor there as I already said , the problem seems to be you wish to adress everything except the issue.

You are wasting my time by harping on about nothing if you are so obsessed with the Holocaust then start a thread about it but otherwise try to stay on topic yeah.

The Indians deserve more respect than is being shown , now if you would like to adress this issue instead of trying to sideline maybe you would be left with nothing to say , maybe thats why you have to keep swerving.

Whats next , are you going to start babbling about anti american or calling me a liberal ? it seems to be the par for those who have nothing constructive to contribute.

MastaChronic

10-04-2006, 10:47 PM

well the thing is, your people slaughtered them like animals!!!!
They litterally stole their lands with lies. back then there were Indian hunters (Bill Clintons grandfather for example) and those people killed the natives like savage animals. White folks never fought bravely against them, whites had massive firearm power while indians had arrows and bows. just like the situation between israel and lebanon today. They always told lies to Indians, they always gave them promises that they never kept even one. Whites even gave them blankets with chicken pox viruses on, killing thousands, first biological weapon ever used against a human being, Well then you have atomic bombs that killed thousands instantly in Japan... how proud are you?

as the song says I see no bravery....

back then people used to fight in just wars with equivalent military power, those were brave man. Killing thousand with mega bombs, nukes, a-bombs can lead you win the war but does not give you the honor, it only shows how cruel human could be.

Raping and killing civilians in Iraq? It looks loke not much have changed since indian days. You still kill people without even blinking an eye and you can just walk away cause big brothers are protecting you, sweet..
In 200 years from killing indians to killing iraqis....When these killings gonna be ever over? In order to be the super power some people have to give up lives somewhere? Where is the greatness of this? If it is what it takes to be the super power we should start judging our values and ethics...
A civilization that built on unjustice and blood eventually goes downward...look up the world history there are many examples......

the white cracker honkey man will not stop lying, decieving, killing, raping and burning until every last brown person on this planet is either dead or subdued to the point of being slavery without the title. DEATH TO WHITEY! ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALAA!!!!!!!!!!%&%$%! im a mutt, i have practically everything in me including whiteness(which i *ahem* secretely despise) and can say without a doubt that the americans will not stop until white people rule the earth!

graymatter

10-07-2006, 04:16 AM

the white cracker honkey man will not stop lying, decieving, killing, raping and burning until every last brown person on this planet is either dead or subdued to the point of being slavery without the title. DEATH TO WHITEY! ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALAA!!!!!!!!!!%&%$%! im a mutt, i have practically everything in me including whiteness(which i *ahem* secretely despise) and can say without a doubt that the americans will not stop until white people rule the earth!

We're all mutts, Masta, and everyones DNA goes back to Africa.

MastaChronic

10-07-2006, 10:22 PM

^word, what i mean by mutt is i have recent lineage to practically all colors

MastaChronic

10-11-2006, 07:21 AM

bump

Walking trails, soaked by our tears
Traveling miles and miles from home
Blood still stains the ground we walked
Soaking into the roots of trees
Giving strength to mother earth
This land is not their land
Head held high above the torment
Tousands die in wars
Murdered, killed, and slaughtered
Hear the hearts of our lost warriors
Beating to the pounding drum
This ground was once ours
Now a wasteland of destruction
Polluting the waters we drink
Polluting the air we breathe
Forced in the corner suffocating
Outcasts grouping for the next to ride
Through a smoke filled remonition
Tellers of the future speaking of the new beginning
One warrior will rise to defend against this place
A killa of anybody, who goes against you and I
Thousands of souls giving him power
Anybody kills until the future is fulfilled
Through darkness light shines under the rain from the diamonds
Showering upon the same roots
Roots that we shared with blood
Let those roots bring the tree
The tree that brings truth to this beginning
-ABK
\

The X Man

11-15-2006, 02:08 AM

On the history of the world .... In no war has 2 sides been equal or it would be called a draw, somebody always has the upper hand, back in the crusades, the african wars, the war of 1812, the settlement of north america was just another invasion and there is never any way to do it without bloodshed and somebody looses. War is not a pretty thing and maybe if we can all stay home and spend some time with our families and respect our present borders we would all be better off.
But what the heck do I know I'm just a stupid vet.

PigSnout

11-15-2006, 11:10 AM

the white cracker honkey man will not stop lying, decieving, killing, raping and burning until every last brown person on this planet is either dead or subdued to the point of being slavery without the title. DEATH TO WHITEY! ALALALALALALALALALALALALALALAA!!!!!!!!!!%&%$%! im a mutt, i have practically everything in me including whiteness(which i *ahem* secretely despise) and can say without a doubt that the americans will not stop until white people rule the earth!

How many retard pills you take today you racist prick?

biker6403

11-15-2006, 03:21 PM

I'm a biker,but Stugis is just a yuppie SUV trailer party for most people who say they are bikers.Most real bikers don't even go near downtown anymore due to LEO's(undercover and otherwise).Also,it's very hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.You can't fix stupid.Real bikers would not disturb sacred lands.We have such a lack of respect for everything these days.Parenting or lack of has a lot to do with this.People are so self-centered ,they think it's all about them.That is my two cents.It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool ,than to open your mouth and prove it. BTW I was there in 1990 and I rode mine.

potheadjames

11-15-2006, 08:45 PM

Yea those poor indians they never tied people to fire ant beds, or scalped women and childred while they where still alive, buried people up to there necks and left them to die. They were just honest hard working hunter gatherers. Yeah right the were blood thirsty savages and if they where in charge to day there would be no America. Also I am really tired of the small pox on the blanket thing, this has been proven to be false.

Eraserhead71

11-16-2006, 02:13 AM

i gurantee u if the indians ran this country weed would legalized, crime would be down, and america would be a much better place 2 live

problem is, there's other countries out there that would take us over in a second

Cyclonite

11-16-2006, 04:29 PM

Yes lets replace our firearms with bow and arrows and take away all the industry which feeds and cloths American. 80% of Americans couldn't survive in the wild and why would we want to take giant steps backwards? America would cease to be a power in the world and 100,000's of people would perish. If no one ever took any land from anyone the world would be a very different place, if you dont think Indians had wars with other tribes and took land from them that's just ignorant.

Its only natural both in the human and animal kingdom, people try so hard to be PC...its just the way things go. The strong survive and the weak perish or go somewhere else. Besides it would be pretty nice to live on a reservation and have tons of cash rolling in from the casinos which pay for education and needs in full. I wish someone would give me cash for my heritage. You cant make everyone happy.....ever.

People should be independent thinkers and not have there mind made up for them by society. I bet most people would quickly change their minds after getting invaded and having to deal with a hostile takeover.

blackowl

11-16-2006, 05:33 PM

Hello,
I am a full blooded Cheyenne American Indian, I belong to A.I.M. and I fight for my people. In 1980 the Doctors were taking out the reproduction parts of our young females. Ages were from 13 to 16, It is funny how people think that Indians are savages. We are very mother earth friendly. And yes booze makes us crazy. We have not had years of drinking to get us used to it. So like any race who has not had the years to get used to something, drugs, booze, we fall down. I have lost all of my family to booze.. I do not say this for you to feel sorry for me. It is just fact. And yes the smallpox was given to the Indians of that time. All of the killin way back when, was started by the white man. the scalping , was taught by the white man. We fought for what was ours. Just like you would fight for yours. All of the Indians that I know joined the armed serves, during all of the wars that America has fought. There were no draft dogers. Even though we did not believe in that war. We are a proud people. If this was a White church there would be no problems. (canucktoker) I have had my own welding shop for many years. And I have been able to run it very well. An average of 200,000.00 to 600,000.00 per year. I put up big buildings. what do you run?? but your mouth. get your facts correct. look at what your Industries are doing to the world. soon there will be no Mother earth. the white man is killin the world. but its ok, it wont happen in our life time!! Right. Savage.. thats me..

Cyclonite

11-16-2006, 07:18 PM

There absolutely needs to be responsible use of the plants resources...I also believe the greenhouse effect is more of a natural cycle...in a few generations the temps will begin to drop putting us in the direction of an ice age, but as far as use of crude oil and deforestation that needs to slow dramatically but wont until another energy source is found. People of all races and all times do terrible things to each other. I dont think anyone has a reason to be pissed off about something that happened generations back. I dont think Indians are savage at all....I respect and admire that lifestyle just as much as I respect and admire biker lifestyle. Every race has done terrible things as well as good...where do you get all your energy and resources to run your business from? How does that impact the environment?

Everyone should take a good hard look at the big picture and form your own individual view. I believe in making the most of your life...in the end it doesn't matter. The earth isn't impacted by us as much as most people think...we are fragile and pathetic compared to our plant. It will go through extreme cycles where a majority of things will die and then come back later on. We are all insignificant in the big picture really. Grains of sand on a beach.

Oh and I ride and bike and will be in Sturgis next year enjoying my life.

spiked666killer

11-16-2006, 09:10 PM

"People pray on that mountain and they can't pray when there's a bunch of drunks," said Veronica Kills In Water of Denver, a member of the Oglala Lakota tribe on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation.

Yes you know what they where smoking out of there piece pipes.
Marijuana and salvia,
But its wrong to get drunk?

There is no law that states they can't make as much of noise as they want, Usally up to 10 pm in most states.

Bodom Children Of

11-16-2006, 09:15 PM

It's alright, us Native Americans, not "indians" are just gunna use the white man's greed to its fullest...come to our casinos oh gluttenous ones.

Columbus day should be ended.

psychocat

11-16-2006, 10:08 PM

Hello,
I am a full blooded Cheyenne American Indian, I belong to A.I.M. and I fight for my people. All of the killin way back when, was started by the white man. the scalping , was taught by the white man. Right. Savage.. thats me..

Well said man.
Everyone seems to forget that the scalping started because of a bounty set on the indians by the EUROPEAN invaders, the scalp was collected and redeemed for cash for the dead.
Only savages invent ways to kill hundreds of thousands in one hit so I guess the biggest savages of all were Oppenheimer and his pals.

potheadjames

11-17-2006, 02:51 AM

I didnt mean for my above post to sound like I hated American Indians, I just get so tired of hearing how the white man took the land away from them. Everybodys land was someones land before and it was usually taken by force.

blackowl

11-17-2006, 06:16 AM

It is no theory. Asian artifacts, that pre-date Indian tribes, but were manufactored after the land bridge was lost to the rising waters...have been being documented for several years now. As in, unless Asians threw these artifacts across the Baltic Sea, the people that made them did so from techniques passed through the generations.

That's a blind statement. For all you or I know, an ancestor of mine had a Inuit or Metis mate. It matters not though for fact that Homosapien originated in Africa. Peoples of the First Nation are claiming the wrong land as home.

Then if all the land was no one's to claim...why do decendants of American Indian tribes go around claiming one location or another belongs to them?

Or better...why do they, today, hold deeds on/for land and man made structures?

My point is thus...American Indians are not aboriginal to the Americas. There's been a romanticization of American Indian traditions...but only those that are earthly in nature. There is little talk of their conquering ways, of taking slaves, raping women of rival tribes, sacrificing slaves to various gods for a good crop of maze etc.

Even though many practiced a lifestyle that was motivated on being harmonious with nature...they were still human.

Is this the part where I cite all the pitfalls of humanity?
I really did not know that Amercan Indians sacrificed slaves.. also the part about the various Gods, now that was really a good one! There where thousands of tribes. there were millions of Indians. we opened our arms to the pilgrams. I do not know where you get the facts that you do, but they are wrong. so what if we walked here, we were here before you. And yews this did happen a long time ago. So why then do we Indians have a group called A.I.M. Because we are still being wronged..

blackowl

11-17-2006, 06:26 AM

I forget nothing but what point are you trying to make?
Because 6 million Jews died that gives the US the right to tell the natives "yeah man think how many jews died"???

Because the jews died that excuses the current behaviour of the people of the states who are racist towards Indians?

Stick with the programme man.

This thread has nothing to do with Jews.
Why do you keep bringing them into a discussion about the modern day Indians ?

Typical ! trying to deviate from the main point is useless I will continue to bring it back to the real issue.
ok then ,, well that went well. thank you, for what you have said. I have been an AIM member for over 20 yrs. and it is always the same. no matter what you say. people do not listen. No matter what you do, it is always the same. my name is Cheyenne M. Blackowl, I am a dissendant of Chief Dull Knife, Cheyenne. take care, Cheyenne

Cyclonite

11-17-2006, 06:41 AM

I'm white and iv delt with discrimination on more than 1 occasion...so do blacks Mexicans and everyone else who isn't in the majority where they are at. Even if they are that still doesn't prevent it. Everyone has problems to deal with that have to do with race or social class. You seem to have done just fine for all the injustices that have been done to you...tons of people deal with the same shit everyday. You say we like you lived through the ages...I dont hold onto the injustices that were done to my ancestors and dont believe anyone should, that's what keeps people apart and pro moats segregation and dissimilar treatment even more.

blackowl

11-17-2006, 05:24 PM

Hello Cyclonite,
Yes I too have dealt w/discrimination, I am Married to a white women. :),,
I do not like being looked down at. I live my Life the best I can! And help all people, no matter there race. I believe that we are all the same, we bleed ,we cry. and we hurt. If we all just would agree to just let life be life ! would'nt that be a wonderful feeling??

PigSnout

11-17-2006, 08:46 PM

Well said man.
Everyone seems to forget that the scalping started because of a bounty set on the indians by the EUROPEAN invaders, the scalp was collected and redeemed for cash for the dead.
Only savages invent ways to kill hundreds of thousands in one hit so I guess the biggest savages of all were Oppenheimer and his pals.

rewriting history again. keep trying Adolf

Certain tribes of North American Indians practiced scalping, in some instances up until the 19th century. According to ethnohistorian James Axtell, there is abundant evidence that the Native American practice of scalping existed long before Europeans arrived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping

Scalping was being practiced by the Native Americans prior to the arrival of any European explorers and settlers. In 1535, the first French explorer, Jacques Cartier, was shown "the scalps of five Indians stretched on hoops like parchment" by Indians near present-day Quebec City.

http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08018.html

PigSnout

11-17-2006, 08:49 PM

MastaChronic

11-18-2006, 07:47 AM

How many retard pills you take today you racist prick?

dude, man, take a joke would ya?

PigSnout

11-18-2006, 11:37 AM

dude, man, take a joke would ya?
masta chronic,
Your attempt at humor fell short. It wasn't clever or funny.

blackowl

11-18-2006, 05:39 PM

rewriting history again. keep trying Adolf

Certain tribes of North American Indians practiced scalping, in some instances up until the 19th century. According to ethnohistorian James Axtell, there is abundant evidence that the Native American practice of scalping existed long before Europeans arrived.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scalping

Scalping was being practiced by the Native Americans prior to the arrival of any European explorers and settlers. In 1535, the first French explorer, Jacques Cartier, was shown "the scalps of five Indians stretched on hoops like parchment" by Indians near present-day Quebec City.

http://www.mohicanpress.com/mo08018.html

Conquerer's always rewrite history.. I grew up watching cowboys shoot, and 10 Indians would fall down! Do you believe that also?? Even the Bible was written by man.. I suppose you believe in adam and eve also. I do not mean to be or sound like I am angry, I just find it hard to believe what people believe. But I have learned that you can not convince a person of the truth. If it is written then that is all the proof you need! right. Do you also believe what our Goverment tells you? Or the Media? Wake up, we all need to wake up and help our fellow brothers and sisters.. On almost all of the Reservations, We live like a 3rd world country! everyone thinks that Indians get all kinds of money. Those lucky enough to have a Casino, the Money only goes to a few. Most goes back to the white people who put the money up to get the casino started. Did you really think that we had money to do this our selfs? If we did, do you think for one minute we would let this happen?
Of course not! Why would we let that happen. All that money would go a long way, to helping our people. Don't you think??? ty ,Cheyenne

blackowl

11-18-2006, 05:51 PM

all mexicans have indian blood in them

I find what you say about all mexicans having Indian blood, is really funny! where did you find this info??? There are the Aztec's who lived in old Mexico
That does not make them Mexican, It make's them Aztec Indians. I am a full blooded Cheyenne. I find it sad that you believe this.

blackowl

11-18-2006, 06:31 PM

All I can tell you, is true. I grew up on a reservation. The Wind River Reservation. The (reservation school) was a laugh, I left there after 8th grade. went to high school off of the res. And failed because the Teachers of that day, did not teach, not like at a white school, I found out that after 8 yrs. of schooling I had a 4th grade ed. I could not tell u the months nor could I tell u how to say the abc's. I learned that myself at 18 yrs. It was not because I did not try to learn, it was because we were not taught. It was hard but I did learn, on my own. I even went to collage, Although I did not pass. Not enough education. There are so many things I could tell you! But people would not believe that things are still happening. this is 2006, and the white man is still taking the land that was deeded to us, until the rivers run dry and grass dies. yeah, yeah. things are still the same. we still have cowboy and Indian wars. Although you do not here about these things. My little Brother was stabbed to death in Denver. The guy who killed him got 3 yrs. Served one yr, and was released. Most people who kill Indians around the reservations, are never charged. Always unsolved. Why do you think that we fight back? Why do you think we protest? Money? thats a laugh! We protest because we are tired of all of the bullshit!! to all my relations. Cheyenne

PigSnout

11-24-2006, 12:47 PM

Conquerer's always rewrite history.. I grew up watching cowboys shoot, and 10 Indians would fall down! Do you believe that also?? Even the Bible was written by man.. I suppose you believe in adam and eve also. I do not mean to be or sound like I am angry, I just find it hard to believe what people believe. But I have learned that you can not convince a person of the truth. If it is written then that is all the proof you need! right. Do you also believe what our Goverment tells you? Or the Media? Wake up, we all need to wake up and help our fellow brothers and sisters.. On almost all of the Reservations, We live like a 3rd world country! everyone thinks that Indians get all kinds of money. Those lucky enough to have a Casino, the Money only goes to a few. Most goes back to the white people who put the money up to get the casino started. Did you really think that we had money to do this our selfs? If we did, do you think for one minute we would let this happen?
Of course not! Why would we let that happen. All that money would go a long way, to helping our people. Don't you think??? ty ,Cheyenne

I believe the many sources that come up with that information before I'd believe you. They all site facts.

I'm suppossed to believe you because...? I can't think of any reason? Especially when you write one of the dumbest statements I've read in awhile "everyone thinks that Indians get all kinds of money".
You actually believe people think that? Nice perception there slick.

PigSnout

11-24-2006, 12:48 PM

My little Brother was stabbed to death in Denver. Cheyenne
sorry for your loss of a loved one.

Big Bad Brit

11-24-2006, 01:08 PM

I believe the many sources that come up with that information before I'd believe you. They all site facts.

I'm suppossed to believe you because...? I can't think of any reason? Especially when you write one of the dumbest statements I've read in awhile "everyone thinks that Indians get all kinds of money".
You actually believe people think that? Nice perception there slick.

Because something is accepted as true doesn't mean it's not wrong.
People believed the earth was flat, people believed you would die if you went faster than 50mph the point cat and blackowl are making is that if only one side writes history then how accurate is that history.
History is just another word for propoganda written by victors the losing side rarely get to give their account and anyone who has fallen foul of censorship will know that we don't always get the truth.

MastaChronic

11-25-2006, 05:53 AM

masta chronic,
Your attempt at humor fell short. It wasn't clever or funny.

whatever dude, im not racist and you made an ass of yourself falsely accusing me of being one, if i was a racist then id have to hate myself too because i have a little bit of everything in me

PigSnout

11-25-2006, 12:01 PM

Because something is accepted as true doesn't mean it's not wrong.
People believed the earth was flat, people believed you would die if you went faster than 50mph the point cat and blackowl are making is that if only one side writes history then how accurate is that history.
Your comparison is off base. What you said people believed was based on theory.

History is just another word for propoganda written by victors the losing side rarely get to give their account and anyone who has fallen foul of censorship will know that we don't always get the truth.

How laughable. History is another word for propaganda. What a joke.
Did you fail history class in school and are lashing out?
So all the things that are written in history books is propaganda. Anymore ridiculous encompassing statements?

PigSnout

11-25-2006, 12:08 PM

.,.

PigSnout

11-25-2006, 12:12 PM

whatever dude, im not racist and you made an ass of yourself falsely accusing me of being one, if i was a racist then id have to hate myself too because i have a little bit of everything in me
You were the clown who made an ass of yourself with your attempt at humor. You fucked up and aren't man enough to admit it.
Yea your post was a real funny joke. Don't take a job as a comic you'll starve.

psychocat

11-25-2006, 11:26 PM

How laughable. History is another word for propaganda. What a joke.
Did you fail history class in school and are lashing out?
So all the things that are written in history books is propaganda. Anymore ridiculous encompassing statements?

Since history IS invariably written by interested parties and is infinately biased in favour of the victor I would say there is no such thing as historic fact.
In modern day we have become more informed as a populace however I still believe my (and your) goverment lie and cover up their mistakes as best they can. Corruption of the truth is almost mandatory for politicians.
History is also objective and written from the perspective of a few and we all know it's difficult for people to agree, anyone who has collected eye witness statements from a traffic accident will soon discover the disparities between different peoples versions of events.

History class is a joke .

PS I passed all my exams and have the diplomas to prove it and I still know that History is part HEARSAY part BULLSHIT and a lot of POETIC LICENCE.

jaden

11-25-2006, 11:48 PM

black owl just to let you know you mostly all mexicans do have indian blood we are call mestizos there's only a few of mexicans that are full blooded indians and and a few pure spaniard blooded the rest of us are mixed with indian and spaniard

PigSnout

11-26-2006, 11:21 AM

Since history IS invariably written by interested parties and is infinately biased in favour of the victor I would say there is no such thing as historic fact.
In modern day we have become more informed as a populace however I still believe my (and your) goverment lie and cover up their mistakes as best they can. Corruption of the truth is almost mandatory for politicians.
History is also objective and written from the perspective of a few and we all know it's difficult for people to agree, anyone who has collected eye witness statements from a traffic accident will soon discover the disparities between different peoples versions of events.

History class is a joke .

PS I passed all my exams and have the diplomas to prove it and I still know that History is part HEARSAY part BULLSHIT and a lot of POETIC LICENCE.

I disagree with "written from the perspective of a few". I agree with what you have said however we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this. I believe very little is BS.

la marea

11-26-2006, 11:38 PM

shall we talk about being naive? just to let you know, and you will scoff because i can tell by your attitude, Pearl Harbor, and Iraq, as I'm sure history books in the future will reveal, were a bunch of bullshit. We're in Iraq for several reasons, none of which are just nor legitimate. What happened to Afghanistan and the "real threat," or what about North Korea? If we are truly fighting for freedom, then why are our interests invested expanding the wealth of a few giant corporations. And pearl Harbor, well, just to let you know, we knew it was coming. There is evidence that proves that while the attacks were imminant we did nothing. And does using Nuclear arms on primarily civilian targets equalize the bombing of a MILITARY FLEET OF SHIPS? I agree that the Japanese were full of shit, and honeslty, I belive that stopping their expansion and their tyrany was important, but sorry pal, we've never fought for someone because we care and we never will. If you really wanna talk history then lets go waaay back, way back. You say we've been around 200 years, 250? great, what about the first civilizations in Mesopotamia 4000 BCE? what about the fact that each dynasty in history from the Babylonians to the romans, has fallen in the same manor. Internal clashes caused by idealogical differences within the society, weakening their strength and allowing for the encrochment and destruction by even weaker less organized nomads outside. Hmm, lets see, so America in all her greatness has existed like all other empires by exploiting whoever she can to expand herself. I agree that we cannot put that on her specifically and deny what every other empire has done, but to consider ourselves in some age of enlightenment where we can look onto history or other societies and make value judgments on their actions, is bullshit. we do the same, we always will, and unfortunately, so will everyone else. However, I belive, that we must take responsibility and to simply shrug our burden off our shoulders by exusing our actions because everyone else has done it is irresponsible and ignorant. We cannot feel like victims because we aren't racist or we didn't have slaves. You dont' even know that you didn't in your family history, I gaurantee you that. The consequcnes of teh actions of OUR people have fucked over a lot of others, and visa versa. We arn't alone in our horrific behaviour but that doesn't mean we don't have to take responsibility for our share. peace.

la marea

11-26-2006, 11:47 PM

ps, to criticize our own country doesn't make us Anti-American, it makes us AWARE. Nothing bad with being independent and weary of media bullshit. FOXNEWS

CYRAX

11-27-2006, 06:21 AM

nuke them all i say

Sounds like a plan.

blackowl

11-27-2006, 04:38 PM

pigsnout, you should go back and read what was written. I wish I was Indian so I could get paid!! Anyway we all believe whatever we do. I can see that this is just like mud slinging. It does not matter what I say ,for it will not be believed. Just because some people are right fighters! does not make them right. And to those who say they will never believe anything I write, well that is there right. As it is mine, to no longer write.

jaden

11-28-2006, 07:51 AM

every thing to government says is bull shit like 911 it wasn't planned by the iraq it was an inside job why you think when the first tower was hit people where still told to go back inside and the owner was taken away from the area and he received 7 billion dollars for the attacks and it was a controlled demolition the bottom part of the tower blow up before the plane hit the building

PigSnout

11-28-2006, 10:37 AM

ps, to criticize our own country doesn't make us Anti-American, it makes us AWARE. Nothing bad with being independent and weary of media bullshit. FOXNEWS

I agree 100 percent. And I never said nor implied otherwise.

qdavid

11-28-2006, 01:09 PM

"this is stupid"

Originally Posted by Billionfold
Cannabis.com isn't for flaming. Unless that flame happens to be lighting a joint or a bowl.

PigSnout

12-06-2006, 06:09 AM

And pearl Harbor, well, just to let you know, we knew it was coming. There is evidence that proves that while the attacks were imminant we did nothing.
Ah the rantings of the conspiracy wierdos. So the US knew the Japanese were going to attack Pearl Harbor and let it happen. Thats a great strategy, let your pacific fleet get crippled so you can enter the war. LOL
Once the Japanese made up their mind to attack they were not turning back. They were going to attack Pearl Harbor come hell or high water.
How about this for strategy, if the US knew of the attack they would have met the Japanese attack force and attacked them first. If the US knew that attack force was out there that would be reason enough to enter the fray. But no it's a much better idea to let your Pacific fleet get hammered as well as let many Americans die. Nice thought process.