Is America drifting towards Totalitarianism? (Discussion)

[Bob the Awesome]

Discussion question: Is America (Or the world, for that matter) drifting towards Totalitarianism in its attitude in general?

I was having a discussion with my dad today about how people's attitudes in general go from one extreme (Very Liberal) to the other extreme (Very Conservative) in a pattern throughout history.

Liberal times like the Baroque, Romantic, and Post-Modern eras (The latter being post-WWII till about now) and Conservative times like the Victorian/Modern era.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totalitarianism Read that if you have no idea what Totalitarianism is.

Since we've been in a more "liberal" time, now we're, historically, supposed to be shifting into a more conservative time.

Now, I'm not saying conservativism or liberalism are bad, but people being extreme about them are. And extreme conservativism is totalitarianism.

You can kind of see it happening, with schools cracking down on "bad" behavior (Both real and imagined), laws on existing behavior getting further "strengthened" (made harsher), and a movement to restrict things which cause no harm on others (gay civil unions).

This is bad news for cannabis reform movements, because the headway they've been making lately may be turned back :( But what do you think? :D

[pisshead]

this has been talked about so many times here...but in short, i'd say yes.

we have protest zones where you're not allowed to protest from outside of one, vets being denied medical care for an anti war sticker on their car, the supreme saying we have no property rights anymore, cops that aren't taught or don't know the constitution, pamphlets for law enforcement saying anyone who mentions the constitution or acts nicely to a cop could be a terrorist, blatant mainstream media/government collusion and censorship, rapidly increasing size in government and centralization of power, tattle tale squads all over the country, federalized education designed to assure kids don't learn, an attack on homeschoolers for so many reasons, communist like CPS roaming the halls of hospitals chomping at the bit to steal more kids from their parents, cameras everywhere...

i don't know where to stop.

there's an attack on freedom coming from so many different directions, i have no idea how people can't see it happening. it's not coming from freedom hating dirty evil muslims, it's coming from those we've 'elected' on the voting machines that they own.

where does all this sound like it's leading...? sure doesn't sound like a constitutional republic. there's so much wrong at home it's ridiculous to claim we can be, or actually are, spreading freedom around the globe.

[Psycho4Bud]

Based on the definition, I'd say a definate no for the U.S.:
Common to all definitions is the attempt to mobilize entire populations in support of the state and a political or religious ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, such as involvement with labour unions, churches or political parties.

We have multiple religious groups:
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions

Multiple political parties.........granted the top two are the favored but still:
http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

We also have our share of Extremist/ Radical Groups which in a true Totalitarian system would not be tolorated.

Between these examples and the fact that people in media can actually get on the tube and bad mouth our leaders, policies, etc.......well, I think that covers it pretty well. I'll stick with a no to this one.

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Psycho4Bud]

Here's an example of what I feel Totalitarianism is:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxvsx4lMffk&search=Totalitarian

[Great Spirit]

The world and the US is indeed headed for totalitarianism. However, it will all be over on Dec 21, 2012. This has to happen. It is all planned. By Divine command, the Earth will ascend into the higher dimensions. Nothing can stop it, and the Illuminati know this VERY well!

[Bob the Awesome]

I felt the first 2 posts were very enlightening, thanks for adding to the discussion.

Do I feel Totalitarianism will be tolerated in America? No, not in it's 100% pure form. I think there'd be a civil war before that happened.

I am, however, concerned about the fact that, for a time, America could drift very close to pure Totalitarianism. It's obvious nowadays, with the examples from pisshead's post. And also, we don't know what exact form Totalitarianism will take the next time it comes around: nobody said it must end up like Stalinist Russia or Nazi Germany. I would be willing to bet that it'd end up more sneaky, that people wouldn't see it coming until it was on top of them. Something more akin to V for Vendetta, if anyone's read/seen it.

[Oneironaut]

Totalitarianism, as in, unquestioning obedience to the government bureaucracy, Ã* la Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia (or even modern China or Saudi Arabia)? I doubt it. I can't think of too many people in my community who wouldn't fight vehemently against such a regime if it came about. We like at least some semblance of democracy, even if it is only choosing who we want to think for us and tell us what to do. We don't exactly have direct popular control of social affairs (that will probably take a loooong time to accomplish), but we're not exactly heading straight for dictatorial fascism either. Americans may not be the most politically sophisticated people on the planet, but on the whole we're smart enough to realize that living under a republic is far superior to living under totalitarianism, even if the freedoms provided are limited and the popular influence upon social affairs is not as strong as we may like.

Is America on a trend towards greater government control? Certainly. There's no doubt that things like the Patriot Act and other "counter-terrorist" actions by the government are intended to restrict civil liberties and allow the government to do what it wants to more easily. But I can't stand the defeatist "oh no we're going fascist, let's piss and moan about it" kind of attitude a lot of people have about it. If you find your freedom being restricted, do something about it. Find the root of the problem and do what you can to fix it.

[Marlboroman]

Based on the definition, I'd say a definate no for the U.S.:
Common to all definitions is the attempt to mobilize entire populations in support of the state and a political or religious ideology, and the intolerance of activities which are not directed towards the goals of the state, such as involvement with labour unions, churches or political parties.

We have multiple religious groups:
http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#religions

Multiple political parties.........granted the top two are the favored but still:
http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm

We also have our share of Extremist/ Radical Groups which in a true Totalitarian system would not be tolorated.

Between these examples and the fact that people in media can actually get on the tube and bad mouth our leaders, policies, etc.......well, I think that covers it pretty well. I'll stick with a no to this one.

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

I see the US being in a transition phase into this.

Yes, we have many religiuos and political parties, however atm a specific religiuos and political party have the majority of the power. And the current political party at the helm, has used religiuos beliefs upon numeruos occasions the further their agenda.

I will say that even on these boards there is a certain pro US theme, that makes an enemy of those not waveing a flag and calling for war. Same thing we saw after 9/11 where anyone even questioning the governments REACTION to 9/11 was quikly called a terrorist supporter. I myself was acused of this while at work when simply pointing out that our government has lied to us in the past, and will lie to us in the future, and that the same propaganda our side slings is the same propaganda the enemy slings, all the sudden, i must be supporting terrorism.

We also have several labuor unions, but in the past the government has taken control over some in a call to arms against corruption. Example, the government involvement in the local 1 plumbers union in NYC.

Not only that, with many local unions parting ways with the ACLU not so long ago, it points to weaker unions, and republicans are historically anti union. Of Political, religiuos and unions groups, unions would be the easiest to break, and I would think would be the first target. And have already been targeted and weakened.

After that it would be political parties, this is already underway as well in my eyes, with the current pro US flag waveing theme, it creates a sort of group mob mentality. All they need to do is keep a threat in front of us, and show us the party with the most power and the best plan to defete the threat. Most will fall in line and get behind the party with the plan. The rest, well you must be unamerican and you must support terrorism, you damn dirty freedom hateing muslim supporters! GET BEHIND THE WINNING TEAM!

The religiuos groups will follow with the political groups, I know it seems a warped concept but our government is already involved with our churches, even in my own parish do they pray for our troops victory. Mind you its more subtle than that, more along the lines of pray for their safe return. Something noone would argue with, but along with their safe return is their victory, and the defete of their enemy. There is nothing but a win or lose mentality in religion, you are with us or against us, there is no middle ground. If your with us then you go to heaven, against us you go to hell.

WIN or LOSE, no middle ground, same as the war on terror.

The extremist groups are not tolerated in the US, need we discuss Waco, Ruby Ridge, the DC sniper, KKK, Islamic fundamentalists, pro life, pro chioce.

All that practiced extreme measures are dealt with, if you have a cause and are willing to take someones life for that cause in this country, ultimatley your life will be taken. Stateing these groups actions are tolerated is false, any time they step over the line into takeing action, action is taken against them.

Our media only gives a token badmouthing, and some talking heads are so pro this admin its insane. Is our press free atm? Id say only partially, there isnt any investigative juornalism anymore, it died when they put Miller in prison.

Peace.:thumbsup:

[graymatter]

If geopolitical and domestic conditions are right (i.e., economic and military expansion of China, lingering hatred of the U.S. in the Middle East, continued and growing gaps in domestic wealth) and people continue to vote for the right wing conflicting logic of self determination and paternalistic government, then I don't see Totalitarianism as a huge leap...

[Bob the Awesome]

Totalitarianism, as in, unquestioning obedience to the government bureaucracy, Ã* la Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia (or even modern China or Saudi Arabia)? I doubt it. I can't think of too many people in my community who wouldn't fight vehemently against such a regime if it came about. We like at least some semblance of democracy, even if it is only choosing who we want to think for us and tell us what to do. We don't exactly have direct popular control of social affairs (that will probably take a loooong time to accomplish), but we're not exactly heading straight for dictatorial fascism either. Americans may not be the most politically sophisticated people on the planet, but on the whole we're smart enough to realize that living under a republic is far superior to living under totalitarianism, even if the freedoms provided are limited and the popular influence upon social affairs is not as strong as we may like.

Is America on a trend towards greater government control? Certainly. There's no doubt that things like the Patriot Act and other "counter-terrorist" actions by the government are intended to restrict civil liberties and allow the government to do what it wants to more easily. But I can't stand the defeatist "oh no we're going fascist, let's piss and moan about it" kind of attitude a lot of people have about it. If you find your freedom being restricted, do something about it. Find the root of the problem and do what you can to fix it.

Couldn't have said it better myself :D I agree. This seems to be what I was trying to get at. I don't think Totalitarianism will ever take over, but I'm afraid of moving too close to it.

[WalkaWalka]

How do you picture a totalitarianism taking over? It won't be a single day or a civil war so much indoctrination of the population. I see mainstream media as no longer news it dosen't bare any resemblence to it. I view it as pure propaganda along with the movies and other media companies. The point is it will never be an occupation. Occupations always fail. It will be brainwashing something between the new freedom intiative on mental health and your uncle whipping your ass when you say democrat rolled up into a bastard child that has seem to become mainstream.

[Purple Banana]

The issue here is, the constitution claims "we the people" have the power to change our government and overthrow it if it becomes out of control... How could we possibly do that if we feel our gov't is advancing on our liberties every single day?

[Psycho4Bud]

The issue here is, the constitution claims "we the people" have the power to change our government and overthrow it if it becomes out of control... How could we possibly do that if we feel our gov't is advancing on our liberties every single day?

That's why we vote. If you don't care for the present parties philosophy, it can be changed.
Another thing that gives "the people" the edge is the right to have weapons. Something that the Dems would LOVE to take away. LOL...we might hurt ourselves.....what an excuse!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[graymatter]

That's why we vote. If you don't care for the present parties philosophy, it can be changed.
Another thing that gives "the people" the edge is the right to have weapons. Something that the Dems would LOVE to take away. LOL...we might hurt ourselves.....what an excuse!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

Hey, since when did Jed smoke a doob? I missed that episode...

[Psycho4Bud]

Hey, since when did Jed smoke a doob? I missed that episode...

Why do ya think he was always so calm and cool. No matter what happened, ol Uncle Jed was the mellow one. LOL

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[graymatter]

LOL... Jethro could've used some of that therapy and who wouldn't want to smoke a little with Ellie May? :thumbsup:

Oh, well, so much for totalitarianism...

[LordSmaug]

The world and the US is indeed headed for totalitarianism. However, it will all be over on Dec 21, 2012. This has to happen. It is all planned. By Divine command, the Earth will ascend into the higher dimensions. Nothing can stop it, and the Illuminati know this VERY well!

what the hell are you talking about? the planets line up like that every 25,000 years and we're still here. There's absolutely no evidence that the world will enter "the age of aquarius" on 2012. Just because some indians say so doesn't make it true.

It could happen but I think that the odds of that happening are about as good as evolution or the big bang.