hydro...hydro...its a heap-o-pot I'll grow

[slowthestone]

And on the 8th day...slowthestone said 'Let there be hydroponics for less.'


[attachment=o77955]


Just a tease...

for now :cool:

[The White Snoop]

yes!! AREO!!

I need more!

[UnitedParcelSecrets]

Looks pretty nice ...

[Zandor]

That would be an Aeroponis system....nice job.

[UnitedParcelSecrets]

It looks really good, and really cleanly and professionally made.

[slowthestone]

Ahhh...you guys like that eh.

I'm thinking the delivery is a wee too heavy for being true aeroponics though. (gotta tinker with the head a bit) As is now, its somewhere tween drip and aero. Which is why I'm working on constructing a DIY mister...thinking the problem I'll keep hitting there would be finding a pump with enough pressure to get a good mist happening.

That and I'm leery about misters getting clogged...meaning having to break it down, clean and or replace them, etc.

I'm after a clean, reliable, minimal parts and maintenance as well as worry free/dummy proof system, that is soooper easy to assemble, for going hydro. Oh, and for pennies on the dollar compared to retail hydro kits. Even that water farm bucket thing seems way overpriced to my frugal-self.

Maybe unrealistic...my goal is to stay inside of a $25-30 budget. Thus far...$19.98.

I'll be putting whatever I determine to be the final set-up through its paces before sticking my feet in the water.

Was that a pun?

Har!

I dunno...maybe I'll be able to get it finished today...and then break it down so I can do up a 'how to' pictural.

Personally...I'm kinda excited!

[PigSnout]

The setup looks good.

I dont know how deep the upper tub is, but you may want to make the drain holes bigger so the roots don't clog them.

[slowthestone]

Got 'er did. It's been running for a couple days now, no leaks, drips, nor anything happening that I don't want.

Going to have to get it in the grow room for a night and see what temp the water gets and stays at before going any further.

Not much sense in going all out till I know what all is going on. And a solution on the wrong side of warm, that would inhibit good levels of O2, is a thing I'd rather not be troubled with. Room temperature is doable...but risky if for some reason things warm up a by just a few degrees.

I've a few ideas on that. By tomorrow morning I'll know the success or failure of at least one notion.

[slowthestone]

I hit a different hardware store...found a better nozzle than the one I started out with. Less parts to fuss with, easier to adjust and a significantly finer, softer spray. Theres no breaks in the stream...meaning, it won't bash the roots back and forth.

[attachment=o78128]

Did I mention getting back a difference of $1.64?

$18 and change so far. And only seven pieces at that.

I'll do more pics and the 'how to' after I get some food in me. Any changes I make between now and when I break it's grow cherry will find their way here.

And of course...hopefully...a nice grow to show later down the road.

[slowthestone]

While I'm thinking about it...

someone remind me to remind myself about a bra for the roots to make the early growth of the them a gentle affair.

[slowthestone]

[attachment=o78191]

[attachment=o78192]

[attachment=o78193]

[attachment=o78194]

[attachment=o78196]

[slowthestone]

I did up a pair of salted ice blocks, sealed, and set half in half out of the water. I don't know how long they lasted. Sometime tween when I left them and came back 5 hours later. I knew it wouldnt last. First time in the room was all about seeing what I'm working against. The next idea requires tap'n the budget for more hose, and another pump.
Otherwise, the whole thing is right at room temperature -- 78°F / 26°C

One thing I dufus'd in the over all cost...(like duh even) I already had the AC/DC adapter...probably a $10-20 sort of thing.
[attachment=o78289]

The reason for converting AC to DC is economy. A 500gph / 1890lph for $10 yank that can be replaced super easy by a walmart run. I doubt anytime in the next 10,000 hours of use to have any issue other than routine flushing and cleaning. Oh yeah...it is also how I'll be draining the solution when time for a water change. A cheapy diverter and a shut off valve will the do the trick. Or maybe even just a cap that can be removed. Ehh.

Hoping to have a chill'd solution tub before the weekend goes bye bye.

I smell a Friday out there somewhere. :cool:

[slowthestone]

quick note....before heading out I've looked around the place. Turns out I've gobs of AC/DC adapters. Check your chargeable stuff folks.

[slowthestone]

Getting the temperature in the solution tank cooled to an ideal range, by means of something reliable, inexpensive...with a minimum of modification and or ease of installation is near to confounding me.

I'd like a chest styled refrigerator that I could just set the solution tank into. But that is bulky and would require extensive modification to be efficient and effective.

That though led me to give the Peltier effect a try. Which had me going out, purchasing a mini-fridge...[attachment=o78725]
taking it apart...and attempting to figure an easy way to get it's cooling effect established in the tank. I'm certain it can work as the first thing I did with the mini-fridge was fill it with water, which over the course of a couple hours, it chilled the water from 77°F down to 50°F before I went ahead and turned it off. That though was less than 2 quarts of non-moving water in an insulated environment. If I can net 10-15 °F of cooling in a non-insulated environment...I'll be golden.

I'm not yet discouraged from finding a way to that to work. The mini-fridges are under $40, easy to take apart...and if I say to hell with it...I can return it back to wally world no questions ask.

Thats when I'll go ahead and fork out the extra money to get the CoolWorks ice probe. Which, as it turns out, is precisely (essentially) what I'm trying to do on my own...sans 'probe'/mini-rod though. I've fairly reluctant to fork out an extra $70 for not much more than a frig'n insulated stub of a rod. Maybe the probe itself can be ordered without the fan and diffuser. I'll contact the CoolWorks people and find out. Ehh...but if it buying a mini-fridge and the actual probe costs more than a fully assembled ice probe...yea...no sense in ordering it.

[attachment=o78713]

The mini-fridge has a plate instead of a rod. And either would require the same space be taken up on the outside of the tank for the unit's heat diffuser and fan.

A nice thing about thermoelectric cooling units is that they can be oriented any which way...as long as the fan has room to breathe. Ideally, I'll have it mounted on the bottom of a side...mounting directly to the bottom would be best...but requires the tank and fans to be elevated in some sort of way so that the fans can pull air pull for the exchange of heat.

The main advantage, as I see it, of using the ice probe is that its fairly much a 'plug and play' sort of thing. About as difficult as screwing in a light bulb.

So thats where I'm at now folks.

If anyone has any thoughts or suggestions...or better...a solution I've not yet realized...please...feel free to enlighten me. :thumbsup:

[UnitedParcelSecrets]

You, sir, need to be an inventor.

[slowthestone]

Awww shucks ups...

If I wasn't busy trying to be a hydro grower...I'd end up devoting my efforts to a device that makes women's brainwaves more in sync with my own.

[Aaron385]

hey on that iceworks thing it has failed many a hydro grower.. to keep temps down that is.

I have a modified mini fridge setup and it only pulls the 25 gal tank down 8 degrees (from 86F to 78F) at its best.

[slowthestone]

I could be pleased with an 8 degree drop.

Aaron, have you ever put a fan in front of the mini-fridge's fan? When I did that, the one I have taken apart went from cool condensation to making frosty ice out of the condensation. Or in other words...from 47°F down to 22°F in just a couple minutes.

I'm on a path now to try having a cooler on opposite ends of the solution tank...two of them, in theory, connected by either a solid bar, or a water filled pipe ought to do the job.

Key word...'theory'.

wtf though....cheapo drop in heaters have been around for decades...am I really going to have to buy a portable a/c, tap into the line, fashion a drop in coil of copper or plastic tubing just to beat back room temperature water?

Ehh...that or wait till the weather cools off!

Seems that what I'll end up doing is going with the design as is, and end up having to supplement the amount of available O2.

Or, pH a bunch of water and make some nutrient popsicles...not!

[slowthestone]

Yeah, I'll prolly set it up tomorrow and put my beater plant to use.

[attachment=o78816]

I use this less than stellar clone to recreate unfavourable conditions for sake of noting the results. I'd rather make things happen and learn from it now as opposed to not knowing wtf is happening, posting, and then hoping on a timely and accurate diagnosis from another grower.

She looks pretty good for a plant thats been in 1 oz. of water for two days. Prior to that she went 14 days without water...pulled her out of soil so I could transplant a two weeks into flowering plant into the container this one had been in.

So yeah, come tomorrow I'll get her in the tub and use the info I get from the her and apply it later when I've several plants depending on a healthy hydro environment.

[UnitedParcelSecrets]

Hahahaha, wow! Well, my Mom used to grow all kinds of plants by sticking a seed in water to germinate and just forgetting about it for a long time ... so, I guess that plant being alive isn't too weird. Looks better than some I've seen.

[slowthestone]

First thought of the morning...

Can NFT be combined with a aero/drip method and produce a effective 3-way hybrid hydro system?

Second thought of the morning...

Will Monday let me get it done? Maybe I should check around for some favourable horoscopes.

[Aaron385]

the 8 degree drop was with a fan pointed at the cooler on high.. without the fan I get a 2-3 degree drop. Im concidering distroying the thing and using the guts to fasion up a drop in cooler like you were talking about.. i think it will work better.

The thing I have noticed about combined hydro systems is that nutrent requirements will change drastically depending on how the plant is getting most of its juice.. like for seedlings it will be getting it thru drip to the rockwool.. then in the middle it will be mostly aero.. and then when the roots hit the res.. DWC.. I had three different control bands to worry about and some would get roots faster than others and it just wasnt an optimum setup for me.

[slowthestone]

I keep thinking that the solution tank will need to be in a joomungous cooler in order to prevent ambient room temps from meddling with the temp of the solution.

I'm also having a rather odd notion of simply...removing a vent cover...shoving one end of duct hose into the duct, and the other down into the tank.

Cool air and airation all in one, moderately bulky package.

[slowthestone]

oooooo....and an inline fan too!

[Aaron385]

yea but that will cause a super fast evaporation rate and cause your PPMs and PH to go all over the place.. It will cause evaporative cooling but you dont want that water to evaporate any faster than it already will be in aeroponics.. I just cut the minifridge up and stuck the entire chiller part into the res.. I will post pics if it works better.. it seems like it will.. I took pics of me tearing it apart too so we will see how the $54 brand new dorm fridge does.

That 8 degree drop is questionable too.. i had highs of 86 without the cooler and lows of 78 with the cooler.. but sometimes res temp would get up to 82 with the cooler.

[slowthestone]

yea but that will cause a super fast evaporation rate and cause your PPMs and PH to go all over the place..

Ya, that occured to me after my eyes stopped being bigger than my stomach.

Taking your's apart...did you end up with that white couplant all over if you ended up getting your fingers in it?

I got nada done with this project today. The beater plant is still hanging out in that pitcher. I did though schedule for the water softner folks to come by and get the system tuned up. Oh oH! I've also begun shopping RO systems. Which is an easy thing to see mutual self and plant benefits for.

[Aaron385]

RO is the shit! My H20 starts at ZERO ppm. You cant beat PERFECT! And that is from an elcheapo china system off of "an online auction site" that set me back a whole $60 USD (plus another $30 for the DI setup and a bunch of extra resin that took it from 15ppm to 0ppm).

Im not sure what you mean by white couplant? I had a shit ton of insulation that went everywhere.. i will post pics of it if it works and i feel less lazy than I do right now.. (camera is in the other room)

[slowthestone]

I fully dismantled mine. Between the semi-conductor---the plate---and a cover plate, each has a white couplant for a tight seal, and likely it has a lower freezing point than 32.

If ya encounter it, its a tad messy.

I was looking at some ROs on ebay. Ck the links when ya can and let me know if I can do better elsewhere. Different models for wider usage is about all I see as far differences.

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Reef-6st-100GPD-Reverse-Osmosis-RO-DI-Water-Filters_W0QQitemZ120013378265QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20 684QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Portable-4st-100GPD-Reverse-Osmosis-RO-Water-Filter_W0QQitemZ120013466947QQihZ002QQcategoryZ206 84QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/AQUA-SAFE-100GPD-MAXIMUS-REVERSE-OSMOSIS-WATER-FILTER_W0QQitemZ150015855461QQihZ005QQcategoryZ206 84QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Should I bother with a cheapy TDS? Or something more upscale brand-wise?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-TDS-METER-Reverse-Osmosis-Water-Purity-Tester_W0QQitemZ170011070721QQihZ007QQcategoryZ206 84QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem vs a Milwaukee?

[Aaron385]

that cheap tds meter should be fine.. just make sure to get a calibration solution with it as well.. I will say that again.. get a calibration solution with it as well!! (I got mine and it was about 500ppm off out of the box.. but once callibrated it did fine).

Res temps are at 72F and probably still going down!! YEA!! I will post when I know it has bottomed out. Its currently 102F outside.. 89F in the room.. with the cocrete floor the res is sitting on at ~86F.

The second system you listed (the portable one) is exactly the one I have.. but I did add a DI to the discharge of the second charcoal filter and let me tell you it is worth its weight! When you DI (deionize) water it makes it completely ph neutral.. which means I can pour a 5 gal bucket of the h20 into my res to top it off and it does not change the ph at all! No adjustments.. no nothin.. and you will notice probably more desirable ph characteristics too. If you dont want to make any mods to your house/apt at all that one is the way to go.

Including pics of the fridge I hacked up.. just imagine dangling that white ice box thing into the res and that is the setup ive got now.. and a pic of my RO system before I put the DI stage in.. which if you do that (Which you can do later.. without it you can see i got 11ppm water) you will want to rig up a bypass and I can show you how to do that.. Ive made a few hundred gallons of water with that system so far and it has done just fine.

[slowthestone]

You messy mofo!

That DI bit is news to me...gracias.

Tomorrow a bigger, better, badder water softner unit is arriving here. (thats more for household use, but will help with overall H2O quality before it hit the solution tank)

RO is next.
tds too.
oh, and calibration goo. I'll prolly do a goof thing like pH some jello on the super thin side for that!

[Aaron385]

Yea but pulling that cooler part out of the back of the unit after chizzling out the insulation for an hour was like the best feeling.. almost as good as when i looked at my res thermometer about 10 min ago and saw 71F.. keep going little $54 dorm room fridge.. I have faith in you! haha

I have had much better luck with RO water than anything else.. but the water is very hard in my area.

[Jiminy]

You messy mofo!

That DI bit is news to me...gracias.

Tomorrow a bigger, better, badder water softner unit is arriving here. (thats more for household use, but will help with overall H2O quality before it hit the solution tank)

RO is next.
tds too.
oh, and calibration goo. I'll prolly do a goof thing like pH some jello on the super thin side for that!


Great thread for the hardware hackers out there.:thumbsup:

But just out of curiousity, a water softener uses salts to soften water correct?

I was always told dont let any plants be watered by any "softened" water, I would assume the water softener will increase the salts in the water while lowering the calcium and magnesium? I forget which elements determine the hardness of the water.

But maybe using the RO as the last leg of filtration will eliminate anything left in the water by the water softener?

I'm really curious about the progress of the cooling system, I was going to start looking into the myself but due to my limited space I was looking away from a pump driven system.

[slowthestone]

Great thread for the hardware hackers out there.:thumbsup:

But just out of curiousity, a water softener uses salts to soften water correct?

I was always told dont let any plants be watered by any "softened" water, I would assume the water softener will increase the salts in the water while lowering the calcium and magnesium? I forget which elements determine the hardness of the water.

But maybe using the RO as the last leg of filtration will eliminate anything left in the water by the water softener?

Good point to bring up.

Answered with, while softening does indeed remove Ca and Mg, it also removes the bulk of the reason why solubles don't dissolve as thoroughly when the positive charge of Ca and Mg are present. Like detergent for laundry...or nutrients for roots.

Its the the real first stage of what will be the final output of the RO process....Zero'd water.

From there, the nutrients I use, by measured amounts...I'll know approximately how much Ca and Mg (typical ingredients for better nutrient lines) has been put into the solution.

:thumbsup:

[slowthestone]

And at 32k gpg for the unit I chose...the life and the filters, as well as the intial investment of the RO system will be greatly extended.

[Aaron385]

res temp is now at 68 degrees F!!!! Holly cow that little fridge is kickin ass.. I dunno if it will pull it down lower but the lights are about to come on so we will see.. I currently have a fan pointed right at the fridge.. if temps going too low are an issue (that would be F'N SWEET) I will take the fan away and see if it reaches an acceptable equilibrium.. I honestly never thought that little $54 fridge could pull down a 35gal res from 86F to 68F.. its a little less than 35 gal right now.. maybe 27gal.. in need of a top off (tomorrow).. but still.. damn impressive.

[slowthestone]

That is big time good news to me eyes A.

Pat yourself one on the back...my next toke is to you.

~tokes~ :stoned:

Ok so...its been nearly 3 hours since your lights came on...still high 60's?

[slowthestone]

Is it the first thing you did when ya got out of bed this morn'n A?

Top 3 maybe?

[Aaron385]

I had to move the fan I was using to blow on the mini fridge when the lights came on due to room temps being paramount.. but I will get a dedicated fan for the fridge I think.. temps drifted up to about 79f overnight but that was in a 100F room.. with no fan blowing on the fridge.. Ive got the fan back on it now.. will see if it pulls temps back down.. oh and i will top off the res in a few hours too.

[Aaron385]

when i went to top off the res it was back at 68F! I put an extra fan blowing right on the fridge so we will see how it does this light cycle.