Could the bible be prone to mistakes?

[Lethal G]

Well, it is my belief that everything regarding spirituality in the Bible needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Here is why: there are many different passages scattered throughout that completely contradict each other in both the Old and New Testaments. This means that someone within the history of the Bible must have been writing something false. In essence, the bible does indeed lie, or stretch the truth. For those conservative christians who still aren't sure, take the first four books of the New Testament (Matthew, Mark, Luke, John). All four accounts tell something different about the life of Jesus, and at times contradict each other, and are even believed to be written hundreds of years after Jesus's death. There are a lot of theories on how they came to be written, but this is irrelevant to the point I am trying to make. It is fact that there are mistakes present in the bible.

I am not trying however to say that the bible is completely false. I do believe it holds certain morals and lessons that help us in certain situations. Maybe it should be looked at more as a guideline versus the absolute truth to everything as some look at it.

Personally, on the issue of religion, I believe in a deeper understanding for humanity and our purpose, as well as death being nothing for anyone to fear regardless of religion. I believe in an all powerful, all knowing God who watches over all of us and all of his creatures. I also believe that everyone is in essence saved from eternal damnation due to this God's mercy for humans no matter how they have lived their lives. I think his love for us is much deeper than what the Christians make it out. Since no one can really know the absolute truth towards religion, I think we all eventually live in paradise upon death.

I welcome any thoughts/arguments to these ideas.

[braddog10]

Holy Spirit....."The Letter of the word kills, But the spirit of the word brings Life".

I'll explain what this means later, I beleive it will help many come to peace with this.

Braddog

[beachguy in thongs]

Who says that you can't contradict yourself?

The spirit of the word can kill, and the letter can bring Life.

[braddog10]

Who says that you can't contradict yourself?

The spirit of the word can kill, and the letter can bring Life.

Beach, you are wired uniquely.

Lethal,.....an interesting view .........after your own image. ......Oooops, that sounds familar. ummmm

He's a big boy, He can watch after His book,

[beachguy in thongs]

Beach, you are wired uniquely.


Heh. They changed my wires. It's weird.

Seriously, though, I've lived two very different lives.

One thing in common, music.

[Oneironaut]

In my reading of the Bible, I haven't really found a whole lot of good morals, and I don't see the point in communicating morals via myths made up by ancient agricultural societies. The Bible is openly racist (Yahweh has a "chosen people" and orders them to indiscriminately kill off "sinful peoples"), sexist (tells wives to submit unquestioningly to their husbands), pro-slavery (try reading Exodus 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd021.html), the chapter after the Ten Commandments that Biblical moralists love to trot around), and homophobic (tells us to stone the gays).

We can see, from our modern perspectives, why things like slavery and stoning gays is wrong, which proves that we don't need religion to look for moral advice. We can use basic ideas like equality, sympathy and cooperation to determine how we should act toward others. We should not judge the righteousness of an action by whether or not it is a "sin" which somehow offends a magical sky wizard; we should judge the righteousness of an action by what the consequences of those actions are for others. Morality is constructed by societies of people who want to get along with each other and cooperate to protect each other from threats to their lives and liberties; we can stop pretending that it is imposed on us by some "higher power" who only bothered to tell us about it in some dubious ancient texts that we don't have the originals of.

[braddog10]

In my reading of the Bible, I haven't really found a whole lot of good morals, and I don't see the point in communicating morals via myths made up by ancient agricultural societies. The Bible is openly racist (Yahweh has a "chosen people" and orders them to indiscriminately kill off "sinful peoples"), sexist (tells wives to submit unquestioningly to their husbands), pro-slavery (try reading Exodus 21 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/kjv/Exd/Exd021.html), the chapter after the Ten Commandments that Biblical moralists love to trot around), and homophobic (tells us to stone the gays).

We can see, from our modern perspectives, why things like slavery and stoning gays is wrong, which proves that we don't need religion to look for moral advice. We can use basic ideas like equality, sympathy and cooperation to determine how we should act toward others. We should not judge the righteousness of an action by whether or not it is a "sin" which somehow offends a magical sky wizard; we should judge the righteousness of an action by what the consequences of those actions are for others. Morality is constructed by societies of people who want to get along with each other and cooperate to protect each other from threats to their lives and liberties; we can stop pretending that it is imposed on us by some "higher power" who only bothered to tell us about it in some dubious ancient texts that we don't have the originals of.


Come on,oneironaut. This looks like itâ??s right off of Atheist .....Religious pamphlets. Reading the Bible, you would have noted why those societies were taken out. Your religious pamphlets have convenient omissions.

Read "The Book" ..You will find good morals and love ........It's in all of the gospels, all of the wisdom books, What is fascinating is to listen to Ecclesiastes on CD. Or proverbs...absolutely incredible. Their was a time I couldn't wait to get in my car to listen. The book of Ruth.... full of His acceptance and Love. Ruth was a moabite. The instructions were to not intermarry with them. Some scream contradiction!!! He was already revealing his Grace and mercy.

King David saw this,...... The Lord Called David.. "a man after ~ My Own ~ Heart". David took the wife of one of his most faithful Generals, one evening while her husband was on tour. She got pregnant, He had her Husband killed. David and Bathsheba both would be stoned by the law. David saw "Grace in the eyes of God". He asked for forgiveness. The fruit of their sin died. The baby did not live. But of his many, many wives, the two of them had Solomon, God anointed as the next king, who He also blessed with tremendous wisdom,... wrote Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. Grace and mercy. Bringing Good from much pain and harm

Gods law is perfect,.....strangely..... He uses it to reveal His Loving kindnesses and forgiveness. If He had any less of a standard,
He would proportionately be less honorable, and loving....... Fascinating paradox. Think about it......In spite of His tight Law.....Gods' offers Love, mercy and forgiveness...........His sweetness is magnified...Contradictions?? Look at it..... It's beautiful. .....Both represent Him.

The book Ruth is full of Ruth's love for her mother in law, The Love of God for Her. The favor of God poured out on Her. God placed Her right in the middle of the blood line of Jesus. . . this is just one thread of the Fabric of his love woven thru the scriptures. The Harlot in Jericho. Jesus lineage right thru her.... clear to Him. Do you think that was by accident? The Lord wastes nothing........ A prostitute. He chose to be one of Christâ??s ancestral mothers. I do not know ~ better morals and love.
Proverbs......It is the Glory of God to conceal a matter. It is the Glory of Kings to search them out. God's covering and love continue to adorably flow thru the entire book.

The Gospels man, get a bible with ~ The Lords words in red. The heart of God comes thru
Don't read your propaganda..... also, I don't buy it...... Rat poison kills at 5% strength. This crap is undilute.

Lets see these contradictions your talking about. You disregard so much, What you are trying to hang onto has no handle, I noticed you deny the scriptures except for the passage about seed bearing plants. Now thatâ??s convenient.

Pull your pants up. Your duplicity is showing.

[Oneironaut]

Oh my God, you have provided me with sufficient evidence that Christianity is true, Yahweh exists (but he's hiding somewhere and he only bothered to reveal himself to ancient agricultural slave-owners thousands of years ago), Yahweh sacrificed himself to himself so he could change the rules of morality for some reason, and I can do whatever evil things I want as long as I get on my knees and beg Yahweh for forgiveness. Guess I have to convert to Christianity now, and only read those passages of the Bible that agree with what I already think is being nice, conveniently ignoring those ones that advocate absolutism, murder, rape, slavery, and sexism, which I will still publish and give to children however. I will now follow Jesus and will be passive, turn the other cheek, and won't fight for justice here on earth because I will get it in the eternal afterlife, of which there is no proof of course. I just have to take it on faith. Isn't it oh so logical?

[Oneironaut]

Read "The Book" ..You will find good morals and love ........
Even Leviticus and Deuteronomy? Hahahaha. Try reading Exodus 21 sometime and tell me how good Biblical morality is.

It's in all of the gospels, all of the wisdom books, What is fascinating is to listen to Ecclesiastes on CD. Or proverbs...absolutely incredible. Their was a time I couldn't wait to get in my car to listen. The book of Ruth.... full of His acceptance and Love. Ruth was a moabite. The instructions were to not intermarry with them. Some scream contradiction!!! He was already revealing his Grace and mercy.
Why was God outlawing interracial marriage in the first place? He's a fucking racist!

King David saw this,...... The Lord Called David.. "a man after ~ My Own ~ Heart". David took the wife of one of his most faithful Generals, one evening while her husband was on tour. She got pregnant, He had her Husband killed. David and Bathsheba both would be stoned by the law.
Whose law? Oh that's right, the one Yahweh gave Moses.

David saw "Grace in the eyes of God". He asked for forgiveness. The fruit of their sin died. The baby did not live. But of his many, many wives, the two of them had Solomon, God anointed as the next king, who He also blessed with tremendous wisdom,... wrote Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. Grace and mercy. Bringing Good from much pain and harm
Bullshit. God punishes people for the crimes of their PARENTS, and that's somehow considered "just". Like the story of Ham. Or how the Amalekites had to be slaughtered because some of their ancestors had got in the way of the Israelites hundreds of years before.


Gods law is perfect,.....strangely..... He uses it to reveal His Loving kindnesses and forgiveness. If He had any less of a standard,
He would proportionately be less honorable, and loving....... Fascinating paradox. Think about it......In spite of His tight Law.....Gods' offers Love, mercy and forgiveness...........His sweetness is magnified...Contradictions?? Look at it..... It's beautiful. .....Both represent Him.
Wow, absolute fascistic control over the entire cosmos. How beautiful. :rolleyes:


The book Ruth is full of Ruth's love for her mother in law, The Love of God for Her. The favor of God poured out on Her. God placed Her right in the middle of the blood line of Jesus. . . this is just one thread of the Fabric of his love woven thru the scriptures. The Harlot in Jericho. Jesus lineage right thru her.... clear to Him. Do you think that was by accident? The Lord wastes nothing........ A prostitute. He chose to be one of Christ’s ancestral mothers. I do not know ~ better morals and love.*
What the hell are you trying to say? God was nice to a few people so therefore he's perfect and it makes up for all the suffering he causes?

Proverbs......It is the Glory of God to conceal a matter. It is the Glory of Kings to search them out. God's covering and love continue to adorably flow thru the entire book.

The Gospels man, get a bible with ~ The Lords words in red. The heart of God comes thru


Don't read your propaganda..... also, I don't buy it...... Rat poison kills at 5% strength. This crap is undilute.
WTF? Rat poison? Dude, what are you smoking?


Lets see these contradictions your talking about.
I never said anything about contradictions...you can pretty much twist any verse you want into whatever meaning you want with enough rationalization and linguistic tricks, so I don't see the point in debating about contradictions.

You disregard so much, What you are trying to hang onto has no handle, I noticed you deny the scriptures except for the passage about seed bearing plants. Now that’s convenient.

Pull your pants up. Your duplicity is showing.
Dude, I am an ATHEIST. I do not believe the Bible is accurate. I was just trying to show the hypocrisy of Christians who think marijuana smoking is a sin. For someone who is accusing me of not interpreting something correctly, you might try to read what I wrote again.

Ugh...Christians. It's rather sad the damage that religion does to the logical and critical thinking part of the believer's mind.

[LordSmaug]

Atheism = Intellectual Suicide.

To me at least, but to each his own. We won't know for SURE until we're dead. But that's why it's called Faith right?

[LordSmaug]

P.S. It was Lethal G talking about Contradictions, not Oneironaut.

[Lethal G]

Look, I was not trying to make the bibe out to be completely false or anything like that, do not get me wrong. There is a plethora of true history and prohecy that I do believe is contained in the biblical texts. It's only that I prefer to keep an open mind on cerain subjects.

You are aware that there are books of the bible (the Apocrypha) not contained in the canonical texts, aren't you? I don't know the complete history, but they were written out of the Canonical versions. The catholics I believe still use the apocryphal texts. A lot of what are inside these "black books", as nicknamed by protestants, are contradictions to the canonical texts. One good example I can think of includes the passages by Paul stating that "women are to sit in church and be quiet" or something to that effect. Due to this statement in the canonical bible alone, certain Christian denominations do not allow women to have any part in the church. However, one passage found in the Apocrypha states that women should have more rights than men. Kind of sounds like our society is a bit sexist, don't you think? The Apocrypha is also the only source of a physical description of Jesus as well. Maybe the source of the bible's controversies isn't because it is God's will, but because of simple humanity and our being prone to mistake. After all, the bible was written and pieced together by man, was it not?

Personally, on the issue of religion itself, it all boils down to faith, no matter what religion you consider yourself a part of. You have faith that what you believe is the truth, and that is all that should matter. I am not attempting to test anyone's faith by arguing against the bible, per say, but instead to give others something more to think about.

I will still continue to keep an open mind on the subject of religion. If there is one thing in common with most major religions, it is to not judge others, as we are all human. I just believe this goes for religion as well, as no one can know the absolute truth, and is why I don't judge others for their faith in what they believe in.

[LordSmaug]

You know... Jesus was kind of the first women's rights activist. He was always trying to make women equal with men and he always described them as being that way. If I remember correctly he said something to the effect of

"Men and Women are equal because Women came from Man's rib, and Men are Born of Women"

That's definitly no where near a textual quote but that's the way I remember it... I know it's in there. And I'm sure some of the early church leaders where Racist/Sexist too... That's just human nature.

[Big Calhoun]

Being raised a Muslim in a Christian (Baptist) family, married to a Catholic, and having completed multiple Theology classes....my views are simply anything interepreted by man is prone to mistakes and misinterpretations.

[LordSmaug]

How the hell do you end up getting Raised a muslim in a Baptist Family? Did they not like your or something? Or where they baptist converts to Islam?

[Big Calhoun]

How the hell do you end up getting Raised a muslim in a Baptist Family? Did they not like your or something? Or where they baptist converts to Islam?

LOL. Yeah, holiday times were always real special at my house.

Basically, my mothers family is American and Baptist. My fathers family are Sudanese and Muslim. When my parents divorced, my mother promised my father she'd continue to raise me in Muslim traditions. Was one of the reason I kept taking theology classes, to try to gain some sort of perspective on it all.

[OnionsOfLove]

yes, because god gave man free will.

however, the idea of the bible is still there. man has not chosen to destroy religion because everyone is looking for something and religion is the answer for many many people. but the power that is given to one man who translates a book that "comes from god" is a large power. in this day and age, considering how metaphorical the bible is, there is a large power in purposeful misinterpretation.

[beachguy in thongs]

LOL. Yeah, holiday times were always real special at my house.

Basically, my mothers family is American and Baptist. My fathers family are Sudanese and Muslim. When my parents divorced, my mother promised my father she'd continue to raise me in Muslim traditions. Was one of the reason I kept taking theology classes, to try to gain some sort of perspective on it all.

I was confirmed Roman Catholic, raised in an alcoholic household. Go figure. :smokin:

[braddog10]

One good example I can think of includes the passages by Paul stating that "women are to sit in church and be quiet" or something to that effect. Due to this statement in the canonical bible alone, certain Christian denominations do not allow women to have any part in the church..

Hi Lethal, You are absolutely right, This is one of those passages that clearly addresses the culture of the day. At that time, The women and the men sat separately, across the room. For women at that time to attempt to inquire of their husbands re: anything stated was considered disruptive. This separation was typical of all the eastern cultures at that time.

It is this kind of interpretive problem to a degree why the word states that the letter of the Word kills, but the Spirit of the Word brings Life. The written text of the scriptures, itself indicates that the written text used outside of the Spirit of God, Can be used to do whatever....manipulate, be used in bizarre ways...Harm....Kill... Praying for enlightenment/ understanding by the Spirit of God will yield alot of good stuff for one seeking some real spiritual substance from His Book.. I wouldn't say that this passage would rattle my world.

The lord can communicate much straight to the heart of the reader, for anyone reading to be Fed by the Spirit (of the Word). This is what I want...... To just learn some Bible verses.....to what? I don't get it. Mike Hayes of Covenant Church Carrollton, Tx. mentioned knowing a man that could come close to quoting the entire Book but lacked the understanding of The Spirit of the Word to do anyone or himself any good. In fact as we all have seen. Some are nothing more than a drunk man with a bow and arrow as it indicates in proverbs. I know I have come out in the wrong spirit at times and used scripture in the wrong Spirit... The Spirit weighs on us about it .....for those of us that care. He knows our propensity, due to emotions, sympathies, prejudices. None of us Christians are that reliable. Any more than any one else out there. We get a limp alot like Jacob, got after he wrestle with a form of God, all one night. All of us do this. We wrestle with God through our lives, and develop a limp. He can trust those that have one. I am finding myself handicapped in alot of ways. It is then I will be safer for His use. I have some wrestling matches ahead, I'm sure. But, I would hope that I would learn to concede as I approach the mat. Life would be better for myself and family, and certainly anyone else I would come in contact with.

Too many of us confident with the scriptures. We've studied and have our magazine full of ammunition for our 50 cal. Bible Guns................ Killing machines.......this is the real deal. The letter does Kill and just as affective as any 50 cal.

It is the Spirit that we are looking for, or should. Pride is a poacher though ....Look at what I know...or think I do. I can blast holes in people with this .........mmmman, this is better than sex! Watch this! and any of us can blast away

[weirdo79]

Well 90% of its stolen from other more ancient religions so theres bound to be mistakes , Horus, Osiris, Jesus...It's a running theme. Compare ancient myths to bible myths, remarkable similarities. (in this day and age we'de call it plagiarism)....

I like the golden rule though, from any of the myths/stories its taken , either way its a good one.

[braddog10]

Well 90% of its stolen from other more ancient religions so theres bound to be mistakes , Horus, Osiris, Jesus...It's a running theme. Compare ancient myths to bible myths, remarkable similarities. (in this day and age we'de call it plagiarism)....

I like the golden rule though, from any of the myths/stories its taken , either way its a good one.

Your just another nameless, faceless, individual, that lives here..... been here for God knows how long and has morphed into also ....God knows how many different projected users. It's the pollution of deception like yours that holds the door open for my departure. Your deceptive to compare Christ with the Demons....Horus, Osiris, and others who have been around eons before humanity was here. Christ existed too. They, you, and all of us will be subject to the blood of Christ. I have received it for cleansing, you for judgement.

How many faces and names do you have, or are you limited to just assuming others. ....This is sounding very familiar....Ever Heard of hypokrisis? Probably know the language.

I am so out of here..

[weirdo79]

and you are such a goddamn nutjob lol,De Nile aint just a river in egypt. Notice how when its healthy debate you run away. Typical...

[Dais]

The bible, the Koran, The kabalha, the eygption book of the dead, the necronomicion, the satanic bible, Wiccan, The keys of solomn, Its all the same shit Its all just a bunch of stroys ment to influence certain kinds of perceptions frankly I think nine times out of ten that the real messages are lost in time and editing. No religious text to this day is without missing parts and they all only have parts of the bigger picture all religion can be learned from they all have some good points and morals but they all also have thier dumbshit in them.

[Oneironaut]

You know... Jesus was kind of the first women's rights activist. He was always trying to make women equal with men and he always described them as being that way. If I remember correctly he said something to the effect of

"Men and Women are equal because Women came from Man's rib, and Men are Born of Women"
Huh? Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus proclaim the equality of men and women. Jesus doesn't really say a whole lot about the role of women in society, and nowhere in my Bible can I find a quote like this. Which is completely inexcusable of course. A perfect intelligence would have been able to see the oppression of women around him and would have made himself very clear that it is not okay. Other parts of the New Testament however show the views of early Christians on women, such as 1 Corinthians 11:3-9:

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
Or Ephesians 5:22-24:

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
If Jesus said something else, whoever wrote those passages must have forgotten it.

That's definitly no where near a textual quote but that's the way I remember it... I know it's in there. And I'm sure some of the early church leaders where Racist/Sexist too... That's just human nature.
It's human nature to be racist and sexist?! Dude, what have you been huffing? Racism and sexism come from one's social surroundings. If one is brought up in racist and sexist surroundings, one is likely to be a racist sexist. But if you have hippie parents like me, you learn to abhor discrimination. Hateful ideas are not built into our genes. They are learned. And if you ask me, Jesus should have said something about racism, sexism and slavery, so such ideas could have been unlearned millennia before the concept of civil rights was invented.

[shoi]

simply due to the fact that it is old and is being translated by diferent ppl at diferent times certin interpritations could be diferent and so it may not come out right

[Captain Hanks]

there are no mistakes within gods word

[jamstigator]

Maybe there are no mistakes within God's word, but since nobody's ever heard God's word, how would we know? Oh yeah, there are people that *say* they have heard God's word, but there are so many of those people, you can't believe them all. There are probably a hundred people who will ultimately say they've heard God's word born every day.

Religion isn't the way to peace and happiness. (I believe history proves that rather emphatically.) Empathy is. Organized religions have probably caused more death and misery on this planet than anything else.

[OnionsOfLove]

Oneironaut:

To say that men and women are equal is completely wrong. We each have our place and no one can deny it. However, many people refer to men as innovators and women as homekeepers. This is true in our current society, but perhaps it is only because it has been that way throughout history. Indeed maybe societies of the past have made women one way and men the other. Perhaps you could isolate several newborns in a fixed habitat and watch and observe who becomes the innovator and who becomes the homekeeper. Maybe both sexes would do both things together!
BUT WHO KNOWS BECAUSE YOU CANT TREAT HUMANS LIKE LABRATS.

The overall message in the bible is that all people should be TREATED equally. So pretend for a second that the Bible writes such things as you have listed as explanation that woman and men arent ACTUALLY equal. That there are indeed some inherent differences between the two sexes that make up the human race. I dont think anyone could possibly argue that men and women are created equal, especially because the two sexes have completely different reproductive organs. The fact that they have different reproductive organs leads to the fact that they have different hormones in their brains, and hormones have as much to do with muscle mass as they do thought process. It may be no mistake that men anger more quickly than women, especially considering that men have more testosterone. Could the fact that men anger quickly have to do with their obvious desire to dominate? And if men are constantly trying to dominate, doesnt that make them inherently different than women? Just thoughts.

What I'm really trying to say is that men and women being treated the same is different than men and women being created the same. The verses you cite have no relevance to the argument you are trying to make.

Define oppression?

Cheers!

[slowthestone]

Anyone else ever read Genisis and find it to be hugely contradictory to the rest of the bible?

Never mind the 'ew' that goes with realizing Genisis is chock full of incest. What I've wondered about for several years now is...

Why weren't Adam and Eve married?

There they were, making babies before the eyes of gOD...but OUTSIDE of wedlock. Which sets up that, to gOD, marriage is not required for man and woman to copulate.

So did gOD screw that one up...or is it evidence of the hand of man looking to impart his view of marriage into the bible?

And while I'm at it here...

Every word I can think of that begins with the prefix 'bi', is denoting the presence of two.

bifocal -- bilingual -- bipedal -- bicycle -- bifurcate -- bilateral -- bicarbonate, etc etc..as long as they have the pronunciation 'bi' (a word like 'bibber' doesn't have the 'bi' pronunciation)

So 'bi-ble', is meaning what exactly?

Maybe Oneironaut will put those etymology skills to work on it.

[Oneironaut]

"Bible" comes from the Greek word "biblia", which just means "books". You find the same root in words like "bibliography" and "bibliophile".

[KillYerself]

I think insanity exsisted then just as it does now.
burning bush that doesn't burn.
walking on water.
I believe there may have been a man named Jesus 2000 years ago. But how can you go by what primitive thought patterns they had before christ, and in suck detail?
People live by that book.
How can anyone think there aren't any mistakes in the bible, I think that is a little ignorant.
They hardly get the stories right nowadays.

[ShrmHuntr]

If I had more time, I'd get into how much conspiracy that book is tied into and how its all pretty much controlled by the Catholic church (they have their own damn country, for fuck's sake). Hopefully someone here knows about that better than me... if not, look it up... its actually a little entertaining, and a few fiction books have been written based on the lies of the Catholic Church, and have a little truth to them. Anyways, I just got back from carrying a case of my feeding tube nutritional shit across town, and its way past vape o'clock. I'll see you guys at high noon.

(sorry for the bad puns, i'm getting cabin fever)

[slowthestone]

"Bible" comes from the Greek word "biblia", which just means "books". You find the same root in words like "bibliography" and "bibliophile".

Those example have the 'bib' tho. eh...I'm prolly barking up the wrong tree.

Can't help now but think of the bible as the 'book of books'.
Which may very well be as silly as the bible itself.

Danka 1iron :thumbsup:

[Oneironaut]

Those example have the 'bib' tho. eh...I'm prolly barking up the wrong tree.
Yeah, just like the word biblical. In English, the spelling of a word typically reveals more about its etymology than its pronunciation anyways.

Can't help now but think of the bible as the 'book of books'.
Well, originally it was just called "the books", and the Greek word for "the books" became the name of the whole collection of books throughout Europe.

Danka 1iron :thumbsup:
Actually, my username (pronounced own-EYE-run-ought) is also Greek in origin. It comes from the root oneiro, which means "dream", and nautês, which means "explorer". It has nothing to do with the numeral one or the element iron.

[Oneironaut]

Jesus was a revolutionary, not a prophet.
Jesus was no revolutionary. If people actually followed what he said in the Sermon on the Mount, revolutions would be impossible.


Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:

But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.

And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you
He encouraged his followers to accept the status quo, and to refuse fighting against evil and injustice in the world so that they could be rewarded in a fictional afterlife where God would enact justice. Revolutions are about enacting justice ourselves here on earth by overturning the current social order and replacing it with a more just one. If you resist not evil and love your enemies, if you give to the authorities whatever they ask for, how can you honestly call yourself a revolutionary? How do you fight oppression and exploitation when you do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you?

http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_teachings_of_jesus/on_love/lk06_17p20p27.html

There is a reason that the overwhelming majority of the revolutionary left consists of atheists vehemently opposed to Jesus' philosophy, and the conservative and reactionary right-wingers tend to be highly religious and, in the West, very supportive of Christianity.

[Skeebo]

Always an interesting debate. Let me state my standing before I go on.

I believe in Jesus, Mohammed, Buddah and every other enlightened person who has graced the history of humankind with some knowledge for a selfdestrutive race.

I had a friend who was an ancient hebrew professor who studied the bible. I mean the real bible. Not the thing you find on your shelf, in a drawer at a hotel, or the thing the guy is waving in church on a Sunday morning. Anyone ever had their hands on one of the old translations of the bible?

Man's influence on words is a funny thing.

Older hebrew versions of the bible have no mention of Eve. Nor the snake.

Eve was originally referred to as "issa". Translated into english: "woman". Editors of the english bible needed to name her, so they did.

The snake? Actually in the older bible the hebrew word for stick is used.

What did the bible originally say? Sadly man has probably lost it, destroyed it, or twisted its word out of anything close to the words they once were.

[ReferMadness]

As man worte the bible there is therefore 100% chance there will be mistakes and things that have no sense or meaning just like where in the bible it shows that jesus jumped 15 yrs in age i think it was 13 yrs old to 30 yrs old raising the question on what happend to the huge gap of his life? if man can tell us everything that is in the bible why cant they show us the other 17 yrs of jesus's life?

Man wrote many things and said many things that usually become mis information. Back then man thought the earth was flat, and they did not know anything so how can they come up with all this information showing who created life and the world?

The bible in my perspective is just a book full of shit that some guys put together to show what they believe in... I mean in the bible they said that god created the earth in 7 days was it? and they also said he was the creator of everything the suprem being and if that is true then where did the devil come from? Why would god create the devil because if god is all knowing then he would have seen that the devil would only cause destruction and chaos throughout the lands he has created then why creat him in the first place...if he is the supreme being creator of everything then he wouldnt be stupid to create something like the devil unless there was God "and" the Devil then that just proves that God isnt the supreme being

Theres just a whole list of things that man said about god and the bible that i could prove are wrong im just to lazy to type this much due to the fact i am wasted atm:D

[BCBUDBOY]

Why do you quote King David he was an evil, evil man, who committed horrible crimes, then blamed them on God, If you read the Bible he does not repent untill after ,when no will accept it was Gods will. He also was a powerful man at the time much of the text was corrupted by him.Nothing by him should be used to defend the Bible. also husband directly translated means owner.

[all ablaze]

Google video:-Penn and Teller Bullshit the bible.
Well worth a watch.

All the best.

[Budman37]

When Cain was made to leave eden. He was a bitter person beilieved he could do what he thought was right not what God said to do and how to act. Thats why God was not happy with his offering(he did it the easy way) It peed him off so bad he killed his brother abel. Cain possesed alot of Gods knowledgs but he also was not adams son he was satans son (see there geneologies in genesis.) not the same Dad but the same mom and where born fraternal twins but by different fathers. This is medically posible ask a doctor..Anyway when cain left eden he went out into the world and distorted Gods Truths He turned astronomy into astrology and turned faith in the true God into Religions of many gods....The end result is the world we live in now...Lies and false religion are prevailing , People dont believe Gods word Because preachers aren't teaching it there teaching traditions of men instead ..Christ said to beware many would come claiming to be of God but are actually of the evil one the 1st murderer a liar or Cain and his dad satan...
Sound to weird???study here www.shepherdschapel.com. There's alot going on, better study to show thyself approved or you will be deceived....;)

[dryst]

well....a true contradiciton cannot exist in essence so... that means 1 or more of the information is based on misinformation...

was it not fact that the roman church altered the new testament to control the masses (poor people/lower class)

[bradleyT]

lol

[MelT]

Actually the Roman Catholic Church and it's place in today's chrstianity is interesting. Strictly speaking there was only a single christian church from roughly 350AD to about 1100 AD. At this point the church became split on a matter of theology, with both sides declaring the other heretic. It was in fact Helena, mother of the emperor Constantine who single-handedly promoted and created much of what Christianity is today in an effort to deify the works of her son - although as a Roman Catholic she's reviled by many modern christians.

But let's step back a bit further. The Bible was written for Hebrews, about Hebrews. Much of the OT is the basis of the Torah still used by Judaism today. God declares them, before and after the new Covenant, 'his chosen people'. Not christians.

However, much of the OT is based on Sumerian and Babylonian myths. The story of Moses and the Bullrushes for instance predates christianity by over 1000 years and is related in at least 4 other cultures about Kings and princes of different names.

Myths become Judaism, becomes christianity. Christianity then denies its roots and begins to see Hebews as sinners and 'other'. Christianity splits after 700 years and becomes Catholicism and 'real' christianity. 'Real' Christianity now says that the RC church is an abomination, denying its own roots, seeing its followers as sinners. 'Real' christianity then, over the subsequent 1000 years splits into over 3,500 different groups, ALL proclaiming to be the one true religion, denying their roots, etc, etc.

You see, although there are people from Christian groups posting to threads like this all over the internet in an attempt to browbeat people with the 'indisputable facts and no errors' that the bible contains (we're all meant to be impressed BTW) what they're actually doing is pointing people away from the real issues, of which there are many. Look at the history of the bible, the way that man and man alone has changed words and ideas in it continually to suit whatever he wants to believe. Look at how many people have died because of supposedly good and peaceful religion.

For me the main question is not, does the bible contain errors? Or, did Jesus really exist? The real issue is whether or not religion should be allowed to continue to create the disharmony it does? Christians of every kind have persecuted other christians and religions to the extent where millions of people have died in the name of one god or another.

And it continues right up to this day. Persecution and death, because christianity believes that we SHOULD believe it and nothing else, and if we don't we are the enemy. It cant even agree within itself anymore what constitutes a real christian.

If it merely held up its beliefs and said, "We believe that these things are true about our fath, how about you take a look at us and perhaps join us if you like what you see?" then that would be fine. But Christianity is unfortunately pro-active - the last word that thousands of people have heard in the moment before their deaths was, '"Convert!" It can't sit and hope that people are drawn to it's 'peaceful ways'. It has to pressurise, control and draw a thick line between them and us to feel safe. It denies its origins and considers itself to be absolutely error free and will give no leeway on that. Is that rational, logical and peaceful? Or is it bigotted and blindly, inherently dangerous?

Considering the deaths that religion is undeniably responsible for, is it the good thing it's meant to be?

MelT

[Hamlet]

Well put MelT........but the human animal is hardwired for religion they say. Seems that energy has to be channeled somewhere, if not through religion, then through a political ideology of some kind? We're very scarry beasties indeed when we run in packs.

[MelT]

Well put MelT........but the human animal is hardwired for religion they say. Seems that energy has to be channeled somewhere, if not through religion, then through a political ideology of some kind? We're very scarry beasties indeed when we run in packs.

Amen (an egyptian word no less) to that:)

I have read the research about our hard-wiring, but I would have to dispute it. What I can't dispute though is that we can be dangerous mo'fo's once we get together into any kind of group:)

MelT

[Cas]

i'd say very much so. i don't think the bible is very historically accurate in many ways and is misleading to those who interpret it literally.

another interesting aspect is UFO's in the bible. chariots of fire? ufos.

[Pass That Shit]

"there are many different passages scattered throughout that completely contradict each other in both the Old and New Testaments"

A lack of spiritual understanding on your part does not make this statement true. The bible DOES NOT CONTRADICT itself in any way. I have studied it for many years and so have many scholars and no one has yet to prove any verse wrong but I guess you figured this all out on your own? I believe it is you that is lying, NOT GOD!!!!! EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE.

[Hamlet]

"A lack of spiritual understanding on your part does not make this statement true. The bible DOES NOT CONTRADICT itself in any way. I have studied it for many years and so have many scholars and no one has yet to prove any verse wrong but I guess you figured this all out on your own? I believe it is you that is lying, NOT GOD!!!!! EVERY WORD OF GOD IS PURE."

Geez, then you just read the parts your preacher told you to read. I haven't been able to read on it for more than five minutes without finding a contradiction. Let's see...one off the top of my head...hhmm, oh yeah, the man possessed by Legion. In one account it was only one man, in another it was three men who were possessed. Not a really significant example, but it does illustrate that at least one of the two stories is wrong. --or 'contradicting'.

Then there's the 'faith/works vs. 'works/faith' thing as requirements for getting into heaven. You know the one if you're familiar with the Bible.

Of course you could claim you have a 'spiritual' understanding which allows one to twist around means to fit whatever they want to believe, but then again the 911 Conspiracy kooks could claim the same thing for their blind faith in Alex Jones bullshit.

I suppose the thing to do would be to check out some different scholars, because the ones you're listening to are kissing the blarney stone.

[Chronic_Bear]

who wrote the bible anyway...i know it wasn't god.

soo who can believe in what some guy wrote along time ago:confused:

[xxFriendlyStrangerxx]

Id have to agree with Dais on the fact that all ancient texts have parts missing, especially the bible. Remember how the Catholic Church was crooked back in the Medieval times, They operated for the sole purpose of making money, (To get to "Heavan, you had to support the church, and dont sin (Techniquelly impossible since Jesus was the only one who never sinned)...To support the church you had to make donations so your sins could be forgiven) ( You support the church and you were accepted by society, poor yet popular...You dont support the church, you became a bad person) and Ive read that they would change around parts of the bible to better suit thier purpose.
Im no saying that the bible is a fake, or that God doesnt exist but the Bbible should not be taken extremely literally (By this I mean the kind of "brain-washed" people you see that will tell you that your damned to hell rather than take a look at the fine-points of your beliefs) I kinda got off the main topic, apoligies, but Im high.

[Mandelbrot]

Just because this book was written thousands years ago doesn't give it any legitimacy. What do you think people would have thought about franks herbert's Dune if it would have be written 1000 years ago. My point, there has always been people with a fertile imagination, there still is, and will alway be. So, don't believe everything you read (bible) just because it's old. My guess is that Jesus was a man that we would call a schizophrenic today. He was probably in a paranoïd delirium while driveling about being sent by god. you know, the simplest explanation and most probably the truth. Nowday, we wouldn't believe someone who get to you and say: "Hey man I talked to God last night, he told me I was the chosen one". The mental health departement of your favorite hospital would take care of him with some good antiopsychotic drugs, sadly, 2000 years ago, they knew nothing about mental illness, we can't totally blame those(sadly, too much) who followed this guy(jesus). But, come on, give me a break. It is time to relegate religion to history books and stop fooling people's mind with all this non sense. Remember, religion is far from being the keeper of ethic and morality, so keep thinking by yourself if you already do, or start right now if you aren't.