Drug users are Modernists who despise Classicism

[Dante Alighieri]

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism, some of the worst excesses of the 1960's can be laid directly at their feet. Drug users have an extremist hatred for anything classical, they want modern art to erase fine art, for modern theater to destroy the beauty of Sophocles or the tragedy of Euripides. Their hatred for anyone who dares to question their motives is unbelievable - The likes of the Tate Modern and other degenerate art forms is what drives them.

They despise the Roman Empire and everything that noble state form stood for, the birth of Stoicism, born in Greece, continued in Rome, stands against everything drug user modernists stand for, the most famous of words, uttered by one of the Seven Sages of Athens - "Nothing in Excess" is contrary to everything amoral modernism is.

Drug users detest fine art, fine culture and it's manifestations be them Greece or Rome, or individuals like Caesar Augustus and Dante Alighieri (a mighty classicist poet who despised modernism), I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

[Dante Alighieri]

I forgot to add, drug users are also possibly the most anti-intellectual people you are likely to meet, people who idolize the likes of other anti-intellectuals such as music stars, for example, the adoration of John Lennon, which defies belief.

[The Colonel]

YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED

[The Colonel]

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism.

This right here is the most ignorant statement i have ever heard.

[Dante Alighieri]

YOU ARE FUCKING RETARDED
The wise are instructed by reason; ordinary minds by experience; the stupid, by necessity; and brutes by instinct.

- Cicero

[The Colonel]

This is not the right place for you to be.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism........I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

What are you going to do? Many of your claims are valid - but there are also "drug users" that take them to relieve pain and suffering. Some people are able to use them to enhance creativity and gain insight and knowledge.

Are you going to throw your fight against such people as Carl Sagan, as well? There are pot users that aren't stupid. Some even have a love for Classicism. The artistically sophisticated people are few and far between, and your help in educating people would be more helpful than this rant - which I'm not so sure is 100% serious. :thumbsup:

[Dante Alighieri]

What are you going to do? Many of your claims are valid - but there are also "drug users" that take them to relieve pain and suffering. Some people are able to use them to enhance creativity and gain insight and knowledge.

Are you going to throw your fight against such people as Carl Sagan, as well? There are pot users that aren't stupid. Some even have a love for Classicism. The artistically sophisticated people are few and far between, and your help in educating people would be more helpful than this rant - which I'm not so sure is serious. :thumbsup:

The people who can take less harmful drugs in moderation are the ones who are letting their desires be ruled by some element of reason, making their decisions stoical, but I would argue Sagan's brilliance was in spite of his use of cannabis rather than because of it.

Also I notice you admire Nietszche, one of the biggest opponents of Stoicism, Nietszche's ideas that people should give in to their desires of lust, revenge and want are the ideas that make human beings no better than beasts.

[kingjustin]

Sorry, but why the hell are you here?

I love classicism, in its own respect, and I'm a drug user. Definition?
Stereotyping.
Say it with me...
Ster-e-o-typ-ing.
There was no need to come and interrupt our nice day with your dipshit-ness.

[Breukelen advocaat]

The people who can take less harmful drugs in moderation are the ones who are letting their desires be ruled by some element of reason, making their decisions stoical, but I would argue Sagan's brilliance was in spite of his use of cannabis rather than because of it.
Yes, of course, but it didn't "hurt" him, or his mind.

Also I notice you admire Nietszche, one of the biggest opponents of Stoicism, Nietszche's ideas that people should give in to their desires of lust, revenge and want are the ideas that make human beings no better than beasts.

Nietszche didn't live what he preached. I think that he created provocative challenges, with subtle clues, in his writings with the express purpose of riling people like yourself. I believe that he associated stocim with inflexibility, which can and does happen. Whatever he did, he put his whole self into it. He was creating ways of expressing ideas, and didn't expect his work to be taken down as "truth". I know that you'll have a problem with that - but he was convinced that truth changes. I still don't understand his theory of eternal recurrence, but I don't think he completely did either. He wanted to shake things up, hopefully for the better, and I canâ??t fault him for that.

[dopesmoker]

man o man this is unbelievable. I for one love classical subjects. I love ancient culture and civilizations. Despise the Roman Empire? Haha please my friend be a little less ignorant. I am fascinated and intrigued by the Romans, Greeks, Spartans, Phoenicians and Ghengis Khlan. Hell come to think of it i'm into all of that stuff. Modern art? Modern art can look and be influenced by classical works. Not only are you incredibly ignorant, but this is not the place for you to be.

[Dante Alighieri]

Nietszche didn't live what he preached. I think that he created provocative challenges, with subtle clues, in his writings with the express purpose of riling people like yourself. I believe that he associated stocim with inflexibility, which can and does happen. Whatever he did, he put his whole self into it. He was creating ways of expressing ideas, and didn't expect his work to be taken down as "truth". I know that you'll have a problem with that - but he was convinced that truth changes. I still don't understand his theory of eternal recurrence, but I don't think he completely did either. He wanted to shake things up, hopefully for the better, and I canâ??t fault him for that.

You don't seem too sure what Nietszche's actual aims were, if his purpose was to 'rile people up' then he certainly wasn't a good philosopher. But I just find his bullshit about 'will to power' and the uberman boring, it seems like a manifestation of his own delusions of grandeur to cover his obvious inadequacies (like the fact he was a complete nutcase), Stoicism is definately inflexible in certain situations, because it's guiding principle is that reason should govern your actions - Of course there will be some, mostly those infected by the idiocy of the movements of the 60's that will believe in the addage of 'if it feels good, do it' (hence drug use), but I for one consider Stoicism's principles the most admirable feat for man to try and attain.


I am fascinated and intrigued by the Romans, Greeks, Spartans, Phoenicians and Ghengis Khlan.

Genghis Khan was the Middle Ages pal.


Modern art? Modern art can look and be influenced by classical works. Not only are you incredibly ignorant, but this is not the place for you to be.
Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?

[birdgirl73]

I think you're deliberately being a provocateur. I'm not sure if I dislike that or not. I think I rather like it. You're a divine comic. Yet an infernally subtle one.

With all hail to Caesar from another classical art-drama-music-poetry-loving intellectual. And if weed makes me such, a drug user.

[Breukelen advocaat]

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:

[birdgirl73]

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.

[Dante Alighieri]

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:
I'm a Deist but I come from a Greek Orthodox family, happy?

And would it make any difference if I was a 'Religionist', or are you just a bigot?

[Dante Alighieri]

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.
Logically of course, that renders my argument obsolete.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Dante, if you're going to be as verbally grandiose as you are, you need to know that "it's" = "it is."

"Its" is the possessive prounoun form you want in your phrase above, "its guiding principle."

This will come in handy--and be more impressive--in further debates.

I'm getting a kick out of a Yank taking a Brit to language school!

[Lethal G]

Wow, talk about fucking ignorance. I happen to be a big fan of the fine arts as well as Greek theatre. You say we're also some of the most unintellectual people on earth.. yet, I find more intellect in mature, drug-using individuals than I ever do in overly-opinionated, close-minded retards such as you.

[dopesmoker]

Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?


Not all modern art is the same. Thats like saying every person is the same.

[birdgirl73]

I want to know if he's a religionist. :confused:
Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?

[Breukelen advocaat]

I'm a Deist but I come from a Greek Orthodox family, happy?

And would it make any difference if I was a 'Religionist', or are you just a bigot?

YOU are the "bigot", and your philosophical views, and critical intelligence, are influenced by your beliefs. I happen to admire Deists very much - the ones that lived 200-300 years ago. Weâ??re living in the 21st century, the atom has been split, and there is no evidence of a deity. Deism is no better than theism, when you ignore progress. The source of your frustration is inside yourself, and I'd recommend a regimen of rational-thinking exercises to recover.

[birdgirl73]

I'm getting a kick out of a Yank taking a Brit to language school!
Brits didn't corner the market on literacy, you know . . . .

They just think they did.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?


Uh, yeah. :thumbsup:

[Dante Alighieri]

Not all modern art is the same. Thats like saying every person is the same.

Ok for the purposes of debate we'll divide them into the two commonly accepted categories which follow similar artistic trends, modern and post modern. Now tell me, how have either of been influenced by Classical, Byzantine, Early Renaissance, High Renaissance, Baroque, Neo-Classical or Romanticist art?

[Dante Alighieri]

Breukelen, didn't you mean is he a religionist like Dante himself was? In relation to the reconciliation between Greek philosophy and Christianity?

That wasn't really a central crux of Divina Comedia, Augustine many centuries earlier dealt with the above issue in his city of god.

But does the fact Dante was religious make his poetry any less brilliant?

[Binzhoubum]

You have failed, in all of this, to explain to any of us why Classicism (Classicalism?) is in any way, shape, or form better than Modernism or any other belief for that matter.

If you remember correctly, Rome eventually fell because it was so corrupt and full of itself...:smokin:

[rajking86]

I guess smoking weed and listening to hip hop TOTALLY DEFIES BELIEF too, you provoking cunt.

Get off these boards and go to the fucking history channel's forum or something.

[Binzhoubum]

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?

I mean honestly man, ALOT has changed since then. How do you feel about postmodernists?

How do you feel about people who don't classify themselves as anything and who live, breathe, and think freely?

If I believe studying Cicero and his principles of government and society are a complete waste of time, am I stupid simply in virtue of my tastes in literature?

Come on....grow up. :smokin:

[Dante Alighieri]

You have failed, in all of this, to explain to any of us why Classicism (Classicalism?) is in any way, shape, or form better than Modernism or any other belief for that matter.

If you remember correctly, Rome eventually fell because it was so corrupt and full of itself...:smokin:

If you read my posts, as brief as they are in this thread, regarding Stoicism, that will address your point.

Oh, and there are varying theories as to why the Western Roman Empire fell, to go into them in detail would take much time and effort, and I really can't be bothered, suffice to say, the factors were basically varying economic (in regards to agriculture and trade and taxation) and social. But it wasn't really due to 'corruption' in any general sense.

[Binzhoubum]

Well, I smoke pot because I like to get high. Some people drink beer, because they like to get drunk. Do you consider drinkers to be the same as these drug users you speak of? I don't hate anything classical. In fact, I love to learn about ancient Greece and Rome, because it interests me. I've never really been big on art, but I do not despise it. In fact, classical art makes for sense to me than most modern art. By the way, who else likes chili?

Nice point, considering the Romans were known for their drunken orgies (not to mention homosexual pedophilia----but, yeah, I guess you are right, Dante A. Society is worse off now)...

AND I am SURE that good old Cicero and Dante attended a few...

[birdgirl73]

That wasn't really a central crux of Divina Comedia, Augustine many centuries earlier dealt with the above issue in his city of god.

But does the fact Dante was religious make his poetry any less brilliant?
It wasn't a central theme of Divina Comedia but it was a central theme in Dante himself, as most biographies will tell you.

Would his religiousness make his poetry any less brilliant? Not to me, no.

And classical or Renaissance religious art is no less brilliant. Michaelangelo's Pieta? It doesn't get any better than that.

[likemclever]

I forgot to add, drug users are also possibly the most anti-intellectual people you are likely to meet

:rolleyes:

[Binzhoubum]

Why don't you man up and study some CONTEMPORARY philosophy?

Or are you scared that it is too difficult to comprehend for your feeble Classical mind? A little Wittgenstein, Foucault, Russell or Quine anyone?

HAHAHAHA!!!! :smokin:

BTW, I am just joking mate. I figure you are, too. If you are serious about all of this, please seek help.

[birdgirl73]

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?
. . . . Come on....grow up. :
Ah, careless youth. When you mature, yourself, I hope you'll give a flying one. You're too smart not to.

[Dante Alighieri]

And BTW, who gives a flying fuck about Dante or Cicero in the year 2006?

A lot of people, some unfortunately choose to idolize the likes of John Lennon. Who, thankfully, died young enough that his perversive influence on the plebs of society did not deepen.


I mean honestly man, ALOT has changed since then. How do you feel about postmodernists?

Post-Modernism is broad and general, but it's ideas of individual liberty in my opinion are vastly different to those of the classical liberals like John Locke, it is individual-centric and hence gives no regard to the welfare or state of society at large, I say this not in a socialist sense, but rather in a sense of one who laments the way modern society can worship things like fame (for the most ridiculous of reasons) to the extent they do.


How do you feel about people who don't classify themselves as anything and who live, breathe, and think freely?

You're trying to invent a whole new category of social thought which is incredibly vague so you can tailor it to your own beliefs as the argument shifts. I mean, what classifies as 'thinking freely'?


If I believe studying Cicero and his principles of government and society are a complete waste of time, am I stupid simply in virtue of my tastes in literature?

Come on....grow up. :smokin:

I assume you are talking about his 'Res Publica'? It's sad you can't see the influence of Classical Political thought in our present day society. This only goes to prove your ignorance further. I consider it of the greatest importance, you on the other hand, probably consider modern music of the greatest importance, to each his own.

Oh, and they weren't really 'his' ideas on the principles of Government, they were Platonian at their base.

[Its a Plant]

Lol. Quite the lil shindig in here, huh?

Dante, all I will say is that you might want to stop hiding behind your ancient cultures and pseudo-intellect-mumbo-jumbo. You cannot just come here, spouting off bullshit, and not expect to feel the repercussions of doing so. I too wonder where the hell your head's at, and also if you even are considered a "drug user". Grouping all drug users into one beefy stereotype-sandwich just made me sick.

I'm sure there's more to you than all those ridiculous fables you tell.

In either case, I love you. Welcome. ~

[Dante Alighieri]

Nice point, considering the Romans were known for their drunken orgies (not to mention homosexual pedophilia----but, yeah, I guess you are right, Dante A. Society is worse off now)...

AND I am SURE that good old Cicero and Dante attended a few...

An amateur at classical history obviously, sorry but thats a myth - There were a few patricians from rich families who engaged in such acts, but how can you judge the entirety of roman society (whose morality was very similar to Judeo-Christian), based on that?

Cicero was a Conservative so it was likely he didn't. Oh, and Dante was from the Middle-Ages, not Classical Rome.

[dopesmoker]

Modern art is influenced by Classical or Neo-Classical artforms? In what ways?

same way that you ( a modern person) is influenced by classical life.

[Binzhoubum]

Ah, careless youth. When you mature, yourself, I hope you'll give a flying one. You're too smart not to.


Thanks for the compliment Birdgirl!

I was just caught up in the moment...:D

I have a copy of Plato's great dialogues and a Krishnamurti collection sitting on the desk right now.

Don't get me wrong...I respect the classics...I just don't have much respect for people who put all of their energy, intellect, faith, etc. into one "-ism". Especially when they start off the day as an asshole. :thumbsup:

[Binzhoubum]

Plus, sometimes I just like to argue irregardless of my actual personal beliefs.

:smokin:

[Its a Plant]

There were a few patricians from rich families who engaged in such acts, but how can you judge the entirety of roman society (whose morality was very similar to Judeo-Christian), based on that?
So I ask: How can you judge the entire drug user population by just a few bad eggs?

Practice what you preach, my brother.

[dopesmoker]

So I ask: How can you judge the entire drug user population by just a few bad eggs?

Practice what you preach, my brother.

Well Said!

[dopesmoker]

This thread is actually pretty cool. Of course, he stereotype drug users which did piss me off slightly, but my big ol' bowl of chili and glass of milk made me forget! It ancient Rome, it was accepted for older men to marry young boys. Would you accept this in todays culture? No you would not. If you would, then I suggest you go and have tea with Michael Jackson and sip some Jesus juice.

Nobody likes chili?

I like chili...except sometimes it gives me the runs

[Dante Alighieri]

This thread is actually pretty cool. Of course, he stereotype drug users which did piss me off slightly, but my big ol' bowl of chili and glass of milk made me forget! It ancient Rome, it was accepted for older men to marry young boys. Would you accept this in todays culture? No you would not. If you would, then I suggest you go and have tea with Michael Jackson and sip some Jesus juice.

Nobody likes chili?

Eh? It was not acceptable for men to marry boys in Rome. I do not deny there was paedophilia, but I challenge you to prove to me that such marriages were promoted, or even occurred.

[Binzhoubum]

An amateur at classical history obviously, sorry but thats a myth - There were a few patricians from rich families who engaged in such acts, but how can you judge the entirety of roman society (whose morality was very similar to Judeo-Christian), based on that?

Cicero was a Conservative so it was likely he didn't. Oh, and Dante was from the Middle-Ages, not Classical Rome.

Well, I knew if I provoked you enough with stone-cold ignorance you would eventually end up talking in circles.

Let's review your first post, shall we?


Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism, some of the worst excesses of the 1960's can be laid directly at their feet. Drug users have an extremist hatred for anything classical, they want modern art to erase fine art, for modern theater to destroy the beauty of Sophocles or the tragedy of Euripides. Their hatred for anyone who dares to question their motives is unbelievable - The likes of the Tate Modern and other degenerate art forms is what drives them.

They despise the Roman Empire and everything that noble state form stood for, the birth of Stoicism, born in Greece, continued in Rome, stands against everything drug user modernists stand for, the most famous of words, uttered by one of the Seven Sages of Athens - "Nothing in Excess" is contrary to everything amoral modernism is.

Drug users detest fine art, fine culture and it's manifestations be them Greece or Rome, or individuals like Caesar Augustus and Dante Alighieri (a mighty classicist poet who despised modernism), I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

So, in effect, you are guilty of the same thing you just accused me of.

You grouped ALL drug users into one category; namely, that of despising anything Classical.

I grouped ALL Romans into one category; namely, that of attending rowdy orgies and engaging in acts of coitus and fellatio with young men.

I guess both of our faces should be red.

[Binzhoubum]

So I ask: How can you judge the entire drug user population by just a few bad eggs?

Practice what you preach, my brother.


Sorry, man. Wasn't trying to steal your idea...

I'll smoke one in your honor...

:smokin:

Peace!

[Its a Plant]

Sorry, man. Wasn't trying to steal your idea...

I'll smoke one in your honor...

:smokin:

Peace!
Lol, it's all good man. Say what you gotta say.

But that smoking thing wasn't a bad idea. I rather like smoking. :dance:

[Breukelen advocaat]

Eh? It was not acceptable for men to marry boys in Rome. I do not deny there was paedophilia, but I challenge you to prove to me that such marriages were promoted, or even occurred.

Forget about the homosexuality - it doesn't matter. Michaelangleo was one, and a great artist - as were many others.

Be wary of anybody that claims to know the "truth". Stoicism is probably something that, if you study it enough, you will ultimately accept as an influence and aid to discipline, but not as a definitive "way". The truly creative souls are not dependent on systems, or drugs for that matter, to allow their minds to grow and improve. It's just a tool. High art can happen in spite of religion (or lack of), pain, ignorance, sickness, poverty, and other difficulties. When artists are creating something worthwhile, all the bullshit and theory goes out the window.

[Binzhoubum]

Eh? It was not acceptable for men to marry boys in Rome. I do not deny there was paedophilia, but I challenge you to prove to me that such marriages were promoted, or even occurred.

You are right about the marriage issue, at least from everything I have ever read or been taught regarding this subject; however, it WAS common for older men in the higher social classes to have a couple "boytoys" just in case.

[dopesmoker]

this thread is going to amuse me for quite some time even after Dante is banned.

[Binzhoubum]

Stoicism is flawed for many reasons...if I remember correctly from Epistemology class.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/#Log

Read the logic portion of that link....

Here is some more reading... :smokin:


Flaws in Stoic thought

If all human events and actions are predetermined how are human freedoms and free will to be addressed? Universal causation is the bedrock of Stoic philosophy. If human attitudes and beliefs are within an individual's power or sphere of influence, is this truly congruent with Stoic determinism?
Robert L. Arrington illustrates the human attitude towards sickness as a foible in Stoic thought [14]. Illness can be a misfortune or an " indifference". The Stoics seem to hint that we should see illness as an "indifference" and a misfortune and then choose. If we apply universal causation in this matter there must be a cause for us to view illness one way or another. Arrington's interpretation of this dilemma in Stoic philosophy is illuminating,

"And if the causes that exist prior to our forming the attitude lead us to perceive the illness as misfortune, it is not possible for us to perceive it as a matter of indifference. If, on the contrary, the causes lead us to assume the attitude of indifference, then it becomes impossible for us to see the illness as misfortune. Either one of the sets of courses or the other must exist, from which it follows that it is either impossible for us to feel misfortune or impossible for us to feel indifference. If one of these options is impossible, the attitude we take is necessary in which case we really didn't have any options at all. And without options or choices, there is no thing as freedom or voluntary behavior. And, so it seems, our attitudes and beliefs are not in our power".

This argument regarding whether universal causation and determinism is consistent with a free will has been debated for over 20 centuries. Today there are philosophers on both sides of the issue.

Another flaw is the Stoic approach to evil. Stoics simply tell us it does not exist; events may seem evil, but they are not. Stoics teach that only the human perspective allows the interpretation that evil exists. Religions of the world, many philosophers, and people who have viewed and/or endured suffering cannot agree with the Stoics.

A further distortion in Stoic thought involves the idea that the life of virtue is the only "good" life. What about the "preferred" things that we as humans know make our lives better? What is wrong with "attaining the goals of impulse" [14]? There was a gradual progression in the evolution of later Stoic philosophy to allow the acceptance of the "preferable" things and this erosion of principle led to many attacks on Stoicism from other philosophical quarters.

And, finally, the Stoics felt the universe was rational and in unity. A divine thread ran through the cosmos connecting everything and everybody. Many philosophers cannot accept this concept. However, as we see the progression of this line of reasoning as it regards the study of the "string" theory in physics and the further work and modification of Einstein's views of relativity, we realize that there may be a mathematical basis to existence. The Stoics may be criticized about their "thread" through the cosmos, but when we discuss how time "bends" and describe gravity as "curved space" the critics of Stoicism may be tightrope-walking this same thread.

[dopesmoker]

Why would he be banned?

things are bound to get out of hand...someone insults him and then a flame war will start then things go crazy. It might not happen but things like this have happened in the past. So i suppose one could omit the banned part

[birdgirl73]

Thanks for the compliment Birdgirl! Don't get me wrong...I respect the classics...I just don't have much respect for people who put all of their energy, intellect, faith, etc. into one "-ism". Especially when they start off the day as an asshole.

Plus, sometimes I just like to argue irregardless of my actual personal beliefs.
:thumbsup:
I hear that about arguing, Binzhouboum.
Great line about starting off the day!

[likemclever]

Since we are all clearly too stupid to talk to youâ?¦why bother.

A smart man can talk to other smart men.

A brilliant man focuses on his ideas and conveys them simply.


You are a smart man.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Stoicism is flawed for many reasons...if I remember correctly from Epistemology class.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/stoicism/#Log

Read the logic portion of that link....

Here is some more reading... :smokin:

He is a Deist, and I pegged him for the things that your Stanford article criticizes the Stoics for*- and I also mentioned Einstein, who is credited with the theory of relativity, as mentioned in Stanford's essay on stoicism and it's incompatability with modern science.

Geez, I'm smarter than I thought. :dance:

*post number 22 on this thread

[BloodAngel]

The roman empire happens to be one of my favorite subjects in history, you ass

[graph]

Your name is funny to me. Has anyone already pointed out that Dante was in favor of modernism?

[Binzhoubum]

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism, some of the worst excesses of the 1960's can be laid directly at their feet. Drug users have an extremist hatred for anything classical...


Where did you come up with this statement or information? Was a study conducted? Was it approved by the appropriate institutions and scholars?

:smokin:

[JerryGarcia]

First of all, how dare you use such a universal stereotype founded on nothing. Second of all, anti-intellectual? Are you kidding me? People use drugs to expand their minds, not close them. Reading The Odyssey stoned is one of the best experiences of my life.

And anyway, who the fuck are you to say classical is any better than modern? I mean you say we're unflinchingly stubborn in these opinions that you've designated for us and uet you absolutely refuse to acknowledge the artistic validity of Morrison or Lennon.

[Loop]

This right here is the most ignorant statement i have ever heard.

that was what i immediately thought.
"Dante" (he's probably turnin' in his grave for that..)
im sorry mate, but ive never heard such a stupid sentence like this.
I hope your aim was to see how many people you could upset with jus one
thread b\c (an im taking all the responsability for saying this) you're filling this thread with bullshits.
you dunno what you're talking about an you're just giving some
nice low-cost-philosophy that nobody needs.
my piece of advise is get lost :thumbsup:

[Az.]

I like classic music
Black sabbath and Led Zeppelin and all that :stoned:

[420mory]

My mother is doing radiation treatment and having big issues with loss of appetite and nausia. She has been adamantly opposed to trying marijuana because, I believe, the social taboo associated with it and the idea that "she couldn't handle it" because she is so "sensitive". That is, the plant would somehow do more harm than good or she would freak out from the pschoactive effects. I imagine, from personal experience, that it is not as "serious" as some of the pain medication she had taken earlier...

Anyway, she will never smoke anything, and brownies are out of the question, but she has reluctantly agreed to try a tea, if I could make it and promise to make it very mild at first and go from there.

For what it is worth, there aren't any medications that have helped with appetite and anti-nausia medication runs about $40 for ONE pill. With insurance it's a little under half that, but it is very expensive regardless and not entirely effective. Other meds are cheaper but less effective than this particular one (Zofran).

I'm not a smoker myself, but have visited amsterdam and smoked on occasion when I lived in Germany. However, living in the particular area of the United States that I do, it is a fairly ubiquitous and easy to obtain. We have a medical-marijuana program in our state, but I'm not going to bother with it right now - though I will give them a donation in the future if I have some luck with this.

I volunteer at a local cable access station and have been asked to help the "legalize marijuana" show in the past. Such experience leads me to believe that there are some serious and significant benefits -- I just don't have any personal experience with marijuana used medicinally, except what I heard while crewing the show from guests or the occasional episode on tv.

Any advice on making a tea (is that plausable?) would be apprecaited. Also, if you have personal experience with medical marijuana used against nausia and loss of appetite I would be happy to hear about it. That said, I would be more interested in the skeptical side of things, since so far it seems that this is a very effective treatment -- however, people on a show about medical marijuana legalization are perhaps not entirely objective.

It may (?) not be cost effective compared to smoking or cooking, but that isn't an issue really considering the high cost of the alternative and my mom happens to be a rather stubborn lady, but very herbal medicine friendly (legal herbs that is) and drinks all sorts of other herbal teas -- so the mental barrier is MUCH easier to cross this way.


Thanks for all very much for your advice in advance...

[420mory]

The first couple paragraphs, with the quotation marks, seem to read very sarcastically - which was not my intention. I just wanted to illustrate that she's of a relatively sensitive constitution and has never smoked marijuana before. Also, I would like to make as mild a concoction as possible and go from there, depending on if there are some positive results.

I understand making tea is difficult, as high temperatures break down THC?

[yoda]

I like classic music
Black sabbath and Led Zeppelin and all that :stoned:

lol right on, but i like modern bands too...

and to dante saying classical is any better than modern, is just another ass that is trying to pass off their opinion as fact.

dante, get the fuck of these boards if this is what you're gonna be doing here.

[Not Enough Herb]

dante how much fuckin meth have u smoked today. this has to be the dumbest, biggest waste of time thread. i say delete this right now. DELETE

anyways, since i have nothing intellectual to say, i will say this:













DANTE YOU CAN SUCK MY BALLS

later

[pandorasbox]

Well, here's a pot smoking intellectual that adores classical art and music, as well as modern art, and postmodern ideas.

[rainbows.rsexy]

ya don't see to many pot heads drivin around mercedez benz sport utility vehicals

[likemclever]

My mother is doing radiation treatment and having big issues with loss of appetite and nausia. She has been adamantly opposed to trying marijuana because, I believe, the social taboo associated with it and the idea that "she couldn't handle it" because she is so "sensitive". That is, the plant would somehow do more harm than good or she would freak out from the pschoactive effects. I imagine, from personal experience, that it is not as "serious" as some of the pain medication she had taken earlier...

Anyway, she will never smoke anything, and brownies are out of the question, but she has reluctantly agreed to try a tea, if I could make it and promise to make it very mild at first and go from there.

For what it is worth, there aren't any medications that have helped with appetite and anti-nausia medication runs about $40 for ONE pill. With insurance it's a little under half that, but it is very expensive regardless and not entirely effective. Other meds are cheaper but less effective than this particular one (Zofran).

I'm not a smoker myself, but have visited amsterdam and smoked on occasion when I lived in Germany. However, living in the particular area of the United States that I do, it is a fairly ubiquitous and easy to obtain. We have a medical-marijuana program in our state, but I'm not going to bother with it right now - though I will give them a donation in the future if I have some luck with this.

I volunteer at a local cable access station and have been asked to help the "legalize marijuana" show in the past. Such experience leads me to believe that there are some serious and significant benefits -- I just don't have any personal experience with marijuana used medicinally, except what I heard while crewing the show from guests or the occasional episode on tv.

Any advice on making a tea (is that plausable?) would be apprecaited. Also, if you have personal experience with medical marijuana used against nausia and loss of appetite I would be happy to hear about it. That said, I would be more interested in the skeptical side of things, since so far it seems that this is a very effective treatment -- however, people on a show about medical marijuana legalization are perhaps not entirely objective.

It may (?) not be cost effective compared to smoking or cooking, but that isn't an issue really considering the high cost of the alternative and my mom happens to be a rather stubborn lady, but very herbal medicine friendly (legal herbs that is) and drinks all sorts of other herbal teas -- so the mental barrier is MUCH easier to cross this way.


Thanks for all very much for your advice in advance...


You should submit this question in the medical mj section of the board. Iâ??m sure there would be lots of people who would be happy to help you out.

My sister used mj when she was receiving radiation after breast cancer. She was not a recreational smoker before radiation and is not a recreational smoker today. But she said that it did help her during treatment with the nausea/ appetite.

[burnable]

to dante: these verbal assaults toward you are mostly ill-founded. I see that you made an observation based on the most typical drug-user. As you've seen with your responses, there are exceptions to that type.
What I enjoy so much about this thread is that it got the attention of the sophisticated and intelligent ppl on these boards who usually don't care to comment in a less thought-inspiring forum. I'm sure most of them are quietly proud of their elevated minds and don't enjoy being classified with those who prefer more intellectually deficient, pacifying activities. For that reason, I'd make less general dictums if I did have something to say, that way there'd be room for the smart ones to feel they weren't the targets of accusation.

However, your first post hit home immediately to me; I'm always trying to talk about classical or sophisticated topics to people I party with, and they generally groove on it sufficiently, but at the end it usually seems like their attitude is "whatever, I just came here to party, not to learn and shit." And I'm thinking, "But that's what partying is to me. Am I just a total nerd for wanting to expand my mind in this way, despite being surrounded by the ignorant?"

You're a cool fucker dude, don't let these jackasses give u shit-the ignorant tend to get mad when they're confronted with something they don't understand

[Its a Plant]

Am I just a total nerd for wanting to expand my mind in this way, despite being surrounded by the ignorant?"
Lol, in all fairness, no one goes to parties to "expand their mind" like you described. Parties are parties. You're not a nerd for wanting to expand your mind at all, just don't go to a social setting like a party and expect people to open up to you about their views on 16th Century Roman culture. Now if everyone is tripping balls, then have at it! And just b/c people don't see and do things like you doesn't make them ignorant. Quit throwing that word out there so much. Use your intellect to "educate" others, not put them down. It's a gift. Share it! Everyone needs an open mind, eh?

Don't read into any of the above as an attack, please. Just throwing my 2 cents out there b/c I find your views on a lot of things very interesting. Either take it to heart or ignore it. Your call. Have a good day :)

[burnable]

Lol, in all fairness, no one goes to parties to "expand their mind" like you described. Parties are parties. You're not a nerd for wanting to expand your mind at all, just don't go to a social setting like a party and expect people to open up to you about their views on 16th Century Roman culture. Now if everyone is tripping balls, then have at it! And just b/c people don't see and do things like you doesn't make them ignorant. Quit throwing that word out there so much. Use your intellect to "educate" others, not put them down. It's a gift. Share it! Everyone needs an open mind, eh?

Don't read into any of the above as an attack, please. Just throwing my 2 cents out there b/c I find your views on a lot of things very interesting. Either take it to heart or ignore it. Your call. Have a good day :)


I'm not offended. I only use the word 'ignorant' in a relative sense. Such as those people 'ignored' what i had to say and it makes them ignorant in that sense. I could just as easily say I was 'ignorant' because I was 'ignoring' the the appeal of a monster truck rally. In retrospect, though, I just shouldn't ever use the word because it is so common and so easily associated with an attempt to generalize and classify or label groups of people, which I don't like doing. thanx for your scrutiny

[Dante Alighieri]

to dante: these verbal assaults toward you are mostly ill-founded. I see that you made an observation based on the most typical drug-user. As you've seen with your responses, there are exceptions to that type.
What I enjoy so much about this thread is that it got the attention of the sophisticated and intelligent ppl on these boards who usually don't care to comment in a less thought-inspiring forum. I'm sure most of them are quietly proud of their elevated minds and don't enjoy being classified with those who prefer more intellectually deficient, pacifying activities. For that reason, I'd make less general dictums if I did have something to say, that way there'd be room for the smart ones to feel they weren't the targets of accusation.

However, your first post hit home immediately to me; I'm always trying to talk about classical or sophisticated topics to people I party with, and they generally groove on it sufficiently, but at the end it usually seems like their attitude is "whatever, I just came here to party, not to learn and shit." And I'm thinking, "But that's what partying is to me. Am I just a total nerd for wanting to expand my mind in this way, despite being surrounded by the ignorant?"

You're a cool fucker dude, don't let these jackasses give u shit-the ignorant tend to get mad when they're confronted with something they don't understand

So true, it just boils down to one thing - People, and not necessarily drug users, but people in general, don't seem to like Intellectuals, if you look at History, you'll see it's littered with examples of persecution of intellectuals because people were either scared of jealous of them. The Soviet Union is one example, but anti-intellectualism is also very prevelant in modern day America as well, except it's done in a more trivial but effective way. People don't openly persecute intellectuals, they are just (with the help of pop culture) reduced to the status of 'geeks' and 'nerds'. This is why I blame the era of the 60's partly, and the music associated with it up until this point; because the 60's was the birth of fame associated with modern telecommunications, the whole world with the benefit of television, radio and now a host of other devices can see what pop culture dictates the ideal person to be like. He or she is not the scientist, or the historian, or the philosopher, but the rock star, the socialite and the film star.

[kingjustin]

I'll back you up on that one. No one likes an intellectual until he/she does something to make life "easier". Or until someone invents a new way to blow something up. That usually garners a fair bit of attention.

[birdgirl73]

I think people dislike intellectuals because they're threatened by them. Intellience is threatening, as is an openness to different ideas, philosophies, and cultures. Intellectualism a different mode of behavior and life than the average TV-watching, non-reading existence, and people who read and think on a deeper level also frequently behave differently, which sets them apart. Intelligence scares a lot of people. So they behave like jerks when confronted with it. Just look at our nation's president, who loves to poke jabs at out nation's so-called intellectual elite every chance he gets. He dislikes people who are smarter than he is because they threaten his simple good vs. evil, with-us-or-against us construct to life and world politics.

[dirty raider]

To my knowledge intellectuals are disliked is for more than just one reason. Often intellectuals are thought of, often wrongly as being pretentious or condescending towards others, this is in part to do with the elitist education system of this country. Because of this a classical education is usually linked with snobbery and elitism.

Possibly people could be jealous either at others intelligence or simply the lack of oppertunitie to recieve such an education. Others simply see intellectual activities as a waste of time with no real practical use. In part I suppose this could be due to a change from a more conservative and right wing to a more socialist or liberal global perspective especially in the west.

I personally prefer to take people on a person to person basis as generalisations whilst sometimes useful are nearly always wrong, ignore the irony.
Just my 2 pence.

[suhl]

i like pot and hate modern art and think music used to be better for the most part. also i dont adore john lennon. what the hell are you talking about dude

[9bob]

dante how much fuckin meth have u smoked today...

anyways, since i have nothing intellectual to say, i will say this:

DANTE YOU CAN SUCK MY BALLS

This made me laugh. :rasta:

Anyway... getting to my point, and it's just the one, I promise:

Descartes used to spend hours a day meditating inside a stove. He must've been smoking something. Admittedly, he wasn't strictly a Classical philosopher, but I'll bet Plato and Aristotle weren't adverse to the odd toke.

Man creates himself. Broaden your mind. 'Tis a plant. Etc.

[Tomorrow Never Knows]

It pretty cool that over a quarter century after he died reactionaries still despise John Lennon. Who has lasted that long. Nobody is like â??That (Jimi Hendrix, or Jerry Garcia or Martin Luther King or Abby Hoffman or Tim Leary or Syd Vicious (sp) or Ozzy Osborne) really brought in some change in perception for society.

Isnâ??t that what life is about? Changing things and being remembered for it.

[Tomorrow Never Knows]

So true, it just boils down to one thing - People, and not necessarily drug users, but people in general, don't seem to like Intellectuals, if you look at History, you'll see it's littered with examples of persecution of intellectuals because people were either scared of jealous of them. The Soviet Union is one example, but anti-intellectualism is also very prevelant in modern day America as well, except it's done in a more trivial but effective way. People don't openly persecute intellectuals, they are just (with the help of pop culture) reduced to the status of 'geeks' and 'nerds'. This is why I blame the era of the 60's partly, and the music associated with it up until this point; because the 60's was the birth of fame associated with modern telecommunications, the whole world with the benefit of television, radio and now a host of other devices can see what pop culture dictates the ideal person to be like. He or she is not the scientist, or the historian, or the philosopher, but the rock star, the socialite and the film star.


You seem a little confused. Your saying that in the 60s â??He or she is not the scientist, or the historian, or the philosopher, but the rock starâ?�, yet you ignore that these lines didnâ??t dissipate only cross.

In the sixties (and beyond to some point) rock stars became philosophers (John Lennon is actually a pretty good example of this) they also became historians, look at all the blues and root rocks influenced players (Clapton, The Band, Flying Burrito Brothers) and ancient Indian music influences (George Harrison, Brian Jones).

At the same time scientists started to become rock stars. More and more people knew James Watson and Francis Crick (who BTW tripped LSD a fair amount), Albert Einstein etc...

[420purplehaze420]

Dante your ignorance greatly out wieghs any intellect you have, you lashed out at my kind, your in the wrong place, its not my fault you got beat up everyday in highschool, try and push these arguments on drug users outside the safety of the internet, and ill laugh when your pretty brain is scattered all over the side walk.

Im sorry if you turned out to be a cool guy everyone likes now but im not going to read through 4 pages of print that wont help me in my real life, if you dont smoke cannabis or have anything good to contribute to this site i suggest you leave or the cyber hounds will be released.

[Dante Alighieri]

Dante your ignorance greatly out wieghs any intellect you have, you lashed out at my kind, your in the wrong place, its not my fault you got beat up everyday in highschool, try and push these arguments on drug users outside the safety of the internet, and ill laugh when your pretty brain is scattered all over the side walk.

Im sorry if you turned out to be a cool guy everyone likes now but im not going to read through 4 pages of print that wont help me in my real life, if you dont smoke cannabis or have anything good to contribute to this site i suggest you leave or the cyber hounds will be released.

I never got beat up in 'High School' actually, I finished secondary school three weeks ago and I can firmly look back on it as probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I'll ever have had. American schools, infatuated as they are by everything that America stands for (greed, ignorance and low brow culture) have social cliques and things like that, but in Europe school is not like that, everyone in my year at school was friends with everyone else to be honest.

And if you hate intellectualism, fine! But the amount of threads I have seen on here, even on my short time span, relating to drug users recieving poor grades seems to highlight my point perfectly.

Also, americans are monolingual and warmongers. Anti-French to boot too.

[birdgirl73]

Also, americans are monolingual and warmongers. Anti-French to boot too.
I'll give you a little more latitude now, both with your grammar and punctuation and your attitudes, because you're younger than I thought you were. But watch out with sweeping generalizations like this. Of course, you may again be playing the role of provocateur.

I'm tri-lingual (quatra-lingual if you count Latin) and anti-war. And I'm pro-French. In fact, I'm partly of French descent myself. So we're not all that way.

Are you going to university in the fall? Or are you taking a gap year?

[azure]

Drug users are well known for their hatred of Classicism, some of the worst excesses of the 1960's can be laid directly at their feet. Drug users have an extremist hatred for anything classical, they want modern art to erase fine art, for modern theater to destroy the beauty of Sophocles or the tragedy of Euripides. Their hatred for anyone who dares to question their motives is unbelievable - The likes of the Tate Modern and other degenerate art forms is what drives them.

They despise the Roman Empire and everything that noble state form stood for, the birth of Stoicism, born in Greece, continued in Rome, stands against everything drug user modernists stand for, the most famous of words, uttered by one of the Seven Sages of Athens - "Nothing in Excess" is contrary to everything amoral modernism is.

Drug users detest fine art, fine culture and it's manifestations be them Greece or Rome, or individuals like Caesar Augustus and Dante Alighieri (a mighty classicist poet who despised modernism), I will fight against amoral drug users to my bitter end.

your views on art are laughable, maybe if your mind could advance a few hundred years i would read your post with some empathy, "Drug users detest fine art" haw haw, i use drugs i am a fine artist, fine art is modern art :) really convincing post there mate good job!

[azure]

I never got beat up in 'High School' actually, I finished secondary school three weeks ago and I can firmly look back on it as probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I'll ever have had. American schools, infatuated as they are by everything that America stands for (greed, ignorance and low brow culture) have social cliques and things like that, but in Europe school is not like that, everyone in my year at school was friends with everyone else to be honest.

And if you hate intellectualism, fine! But the amount of threads I have seen on here, even on my short time span, relating to drug users recieving poor grades seems to highlight my point perfectly.

Also, americans are monolingual and warmongers. Anti-French to boot too.
sorry to be the one to have to bring you down to earth but your far, far from intellectual, keep up the wishful thinking though :thumbsup:

[likemclever]

I never got beat up in 'High School' actually, I finished secondary school three weeks ago and I can firmly look back on it as probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I'll ever have had. American schools, infatuated as they are by everything that America stands for (greed, ignorance and low brow culture) have social cliques and things like that, but in Europe school is not like that, everyone in my year at school was friends with everyone else to be honest.

And if you hate intellectualism, fine! But the amount of threads I have seen on here, even on my short time span, relating to drug users recieving poor grades seems to highlight my point perfectly.

Also, americans are monolingual and warmongers. Anti-French to boot too.

Sounds to me like you missed the class on the most important classical tradition. Manners!

Youâ??re an odd sort of fellow. I think you come here because you do think marijuana smokers are stupid; youâ??re trying to get your intellectual rocks off and you figure us for easy pray. Well, stick around book boy and maybe youâ??ll learn something of manners and while youâ??re at it maybe you will lean something of American history you can start with MLKâ??s â??Letter from a Birmingham Jail.â?� This country didnâ??t get to where it is because weâ??re a bunch of idiots.

The way I see it, most of the worlds cock suckers were created on your side of the world. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin??? So you can stop with your nose in the air attitude towards the US.

And the French can go fuck themselves! :thumbsup:

[Binzhoubum]

I never got beat up in 'High School' actually, I finished secondary school three weeks ago and I can firmly look back on it as probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I'll ever have had. American schools, infatuated as they are by everything that America stands for (greed, ignorance and low brow culture) have social cliques and things like that, but in Europe school is not like that, everyone in my year at school was friends with everyone else to be honest.

And if you hate intellectualism, fine! But the amount of threads I have seen on here, even on my short time span, relating to drug users recieving poor grades seems to highlight my point perfectly.

Also, americans are monolingual and warmongers. Anti-French to boot too.

I think somebody needs a hug or a girlfriend...:)

Just because you are intelligent or an "intellectual" (whatever the hell that means) doesn't give you the right to be an elitist, too. Do you think that "intellectual" people are better than ignorant, low-brow, poor grade receiving folks?

Not everybody can be a GENIUS like you, apparently...

Someone who is full of themselves and believes their intellect superior to others whom they do not know or do not care to get to know are the ones who lose in the end. Why do you create conflict?

If you were truly an Intellectual, you would stop creating unnecessary conflict and attempt to gain knowledge which cannot be found in any book, but which must be realized through experience, interaction with others, and introspection.

:smokin:

Haven't you yet realized the true meaning of self and society and all of it's implications?

[420purplehaze420]

I never got beat up in 'High School' actually, I finished secondary school three weeks ago and I can firmly look back on it as probably one of the most enjoyable experiences I'll ever have had.
high school, secondary school its all the same shit, but im not going to waste my time defending myself against someone who is an ignorant nazi.

In the end it all comes down to who's banned and who's not, and you...are.:thumbsup:

[mulltie]

i didnt read all these posts but everyone shuda ignored this guy all he wanted was a response, somthing to fight,what a jerk..

[flamingskullballs]

hey hey hey, can i be attacked for liking nietzsche too?

instead, in the picture of nazi-germany he posted, he doesnt take into account that nietzsche was a book read by many of the nazi party

though it was mis-interpreted to start WWII

i like andy warhol

[TonyD]

Mummy and daddy's money must have gone to his head.