Hydro Nutes? I visited a huge Hydro grow op

[ryo]

today. It is all legal( fresh tomatoes and lettuce) but the owner who showed me around was talking and had an interesting point. If I am using a recirculating system, like the waterfarm or any DWC that reuses the nute solution over and over again, how do I judge the nutes that the plants are using and the amount they are using? He said some plants may use one type of nute more than another and another plant may use a different nute in a different amount more than another. So if we only change the solution when the resivour has used all of the starting solution by replacing it with PH balanced water, do you think some of the plants may be suffer from not having what they want? He doesnt reuse his solution water, it just flows from a dripper into waste. That way they always have the correct amount of nutes at each stage. Seems like alot of water to use, but maybe not? I never tried that approach and dont know how much a dripper would put out on a say 12 bucket system. It just seemed an interesting point and I thought someone may have an interesting answer.

[plastik]

Some commercial grow ops that can afford it, do this. They want to insure that every single plant gets what it needs when it needs it. For a novelty grower, this is not really the way to go. I would say the waste could be bottle and sold, as a garden additive. These types of systems almost seem rediculous though, because thats ALOT of nutes, and ALOT of water, wasted. I could see changing it out every day or few days, but not just one pass over the roots, then straight to waste. they are probably losing 99% of nutes doing this. But hey in huge systems, it may be the way to go because you could lose whole crops to problems associated with under/over feeding, the toxins that build up, bacteria, root rot, etc etc. You cannot judge specidically what nutes each plant is using, and how much of it, and when. All plants are different, even those of the same species. Also depending on environmental condition, your plant may take up more of something than anything else. I would think that they could do something with the waste...at the very least bottle it and sell it for cheap as pre mixed hydro solution. If they buy nutes in bulk, they may get a deal, and bottling it and reselling it may make them more money than what the nutes/water costs in the first place.

[Zandor]

today. It is all legal( fresh tomatoes and lettuce) but the owner who showed me around was talking and had an interesting point. If I am using a recirculating system, like the waterfarm or any DWC that reuses the nute solution over and over again, how do I judge the nutes that the plants are using and the amount they are using? He said some plants may use one type of nute more than another and another plant may use a different nute in a different amount more than another. So if we only change the solution when the resivour has used all of the starting solution by replacing it with PH balanced water, do you think some of the plants may be suffer from not having what they want? He doesnt reuse his solution water, it just flows from a dripper into waste. That way they always have the correct amount of nutes at each stage. Seems like alot of water to use, but maybe not? I never tried that approach and dont know how much a dripper would put out on a say 12 bucket system. It just seemed an interesting point and I thought someone may have an interesting answer.

That is why you change everything every 5-10 days and you avoid that problem. Another thing is The plant does change it's cycle every 7-14 days so the nutrient requirement should change at the same rate to keep up.

[stjimmy]

i just do addbacks, no rez changes, and let my pH flux from about 5.2-6.4, the plants uptake different nutes better at different pH levels... i never get signs of deficiencies.

would i get some more weight if i did things differently, maybe... but as far as being thrifty you can't beat it. weekly rez changes would freakin kill me, that's alot of water to lug around. my ro tank is only 3 gallons anyway, and not very close to the cabinet. just not very convienient all around, but it's what i've got and i'm not spending any more money on it :)

would i get more weight doing things differently, probably so... but, i've been getting 250-300grams out of a 400w in a small cabinet pretty consistently with a couple of different strains, it's more than enough to keep me happy.

[plastik]

more yeild is always better :)

(especially if it is as simple as changing out a res, I change my every 7 days, sometimes I'm lazy and I top it with straight water when the water levels get down low from evaporation)


The only problem I can see with that type of setup is if your water levels go down low, it doesn't mean the nutes are even half used up. So if you keep topping up on the res, and adding more nutes, sooner or later, your ppm will be WAY too high, and probably kill them. That is, if you don't use a ppm meter. I don't. I don't even use a temp guage. All i need is my PH kit, and I'm all good. I could probably do way better with the extra equipment, But I think you can do fairly well without most of it. But PH is a must. You can always under/over feed a bit with not much problems, or none at all. Also it is good to change out the res just to have cleaner water. plants release alot of stuff back into the water too, and bacteria can take hold, along with buildup crusts within your res. just seems dirty to me :D

[plastik]

also, 3 gallons of water isn't THAT heavy, if you have to, fill up a large cup and make trips..I'm sure it'll pay off

To each his own.

[Zandor]

but as far as being thrifty you can't beat it. weekly rez changes would freakin kill me, that's alot of water to lug around. my ro tank is only 3 gallons anyway, and not very close to the cabinet. just not very convienient all around, but it's what i've got and i'm not spending any more money on it.

If you go cheap you grow cheap :o

[ryo]

I read some are wondering how they can tell if a plant is lacking in a certain nute? I was also, so I ask him, he said about every couple of months he sends a leaf into some place and they do a tissue sample from it. Somehow they can tell what nutes at what levels are enough and what are lacking. He then adjust his nute solution to the correct level. The tomato plants were amazing, about 16ft long each, well maintain and bearing a bunch of tomatoes.

[Zandor]

I read some are wondering how they can tell if a plant is lacking in a certain nute? I was also, so I ask him, he said about every couple of months he sends a leaf into some place and they do a tissue sample from it. Somehow they can tell what nutes at what levels are enough and what are lacking. He then adjust his nute solution to the correct level. The tomato plants were amazing, about 16ft long each, well maintain and bearing a bunch of tomatoes.

You can tell most problems by viewing the leaf structure and color.

A Brix meter will tell you how well the plant is up taking the nutrients too.

[ryo]

Did I read in another thread that you sell a hydro system?zandor?

[Zandor]

I have yes, the web site is still under construction. I am spending more time working on getting my house ready to sell then web work for a few more weeks. I have a few small SOG systems I call Drip 9.

My personal computer crashed last night so the pictures are there. It's a top feed SOG drip system with a 10 gal res. It's designed to SOG 9 plants under a 400w light.

[moreover123]

Z - I'd like to see the pics of that also.

[Zandor]

ok I recovered some of the pics. it's very clean and easy to use and just right for a single 400w hid light.:thumbsup:

[bongerstonerd00d]

Compact looking setup. I like. I might do something like that for moms to chill out in. That looks like vinyl fence post cut into sections. Great idea. End caps, hole saw, and some 4100, I'd be all set.



b0nger

[stjimmy]

hm well, /wave from the lazy self-sufficient stoner's side of growing. i don't ever sell buds, and only have to grow twice a year. and, that is using a 400w lamp in a c-13, pretty basic ventilation setup and a tubbler. i could easily squeeze in 2 more grows a year without laying down any more cash, but i just don't have to.

this is not an insinuation that people here grow for profit by any means; it's part of my reasoning for just going with what's easy, and works well enough for my needs. i'm not totally disinterested in boosting my efficiency, but when i change my program to include things that are a royal pain in the ass (water changes) and don't even notice a difference, i tend to focus my attention on other things that i believe will have more of an impact.

it is my opinion that increasing my own training skills (scrogging, in this case) will greatly affect my yield, as opposed to a marginal at best improvement by becoming utter and complete master of my rez regimen. bear in mind this is dwc, i have no experience doing anything else. all i know is keep your temps below 70, your container light tight, and grow area clean in general... and it just works... for me, anyway.

as far as overferting goes, i own both a pH and tds meter, and most of the time am only adding back plain RO water... i use my pH as well as tds to determine when to administer more nutrients.

there are all sorts of reasons why what is good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander... not everything will work for everybody. i have found what works well enough for me, with diligent research and practical application.

frankly, this is an old argument, and on other sites have followed very successful grows by many people who do indeed abstain from the whole water change ritual. c'mon, i know there are some more lazy stoners out there... i'm certainly not alone in this.

the long and the short of it is, we all like to smoke the sweet herb, preferably without the spectre of black markets and our own governments breathing down our necks. peace.

[Zandor]

hm well, /wave from the lazy self-sufficient stoner's side of growing. i don't ever sell buds, and only have to grow twice a year. and, that is using a 400w lamp in a c-13, pretty basic ventilation setup and a tubbler. i could easily squeeze in 2 more grows a year without laying down any more cash, but i just don't have to.

this is not an insinuation that people here grow for profit by any means; it's part of my reasoning for just going with what's easy, and works well enough for my needs. i'm not totally disinterested in boosting my efficiency, but when i change my program to include things that are a royal pain in the ass (water changes) and don't even notice a difference, i tend to focus my attention on other things that i believe will have more of an impact.

it is my opinion that increasing my own training skills (scrogging, in this case) will greatly affect my yield, as opposed to a marginal at best improvement by becoming utter and complete master of my rez regimen. bear in mind this is dwc, i have no experience doing anything else. all i know is keep your temps below 70, your container light tight, and grow area clean in general... and it just works... for me, anyway.

as far as overferting goes, i own both a pH and tds meter, and most of the time am only adding back plain RO water... i use my pH as well as tds to determine when to administer more nutrients.

there are all sorts of reasons why what is good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander... not everything will work for everybody. i have found what works well enough for me, with diligent research and practical application.

frankly, this is an old argument, and on other sites have followed very successful grows by many people who do indeed abstain from the whole water change ritual. c'mon, i know there are some more lazy stoners out there... i'm certainly not alone in this.

the long and the short of it is, we all like to smoke the sweet herb, preferably without the spectre of black markets and our own governments breathing down our necks. peace.

Sure it may grow and you will get something to smoke out of it too. Hell it will even grow in a crack of a sidewalk if left alone just like so many other plants can.

Most of us are at the point in our hobby that we are looking for the very best plant we can grow and not just an average plant. Not dissing you or your grow skills but that is the truth.

You will never grow like this picture unless you take it serious and treat the plant with the respect it deserves. Sure even some can get lucky with MG products too but that plant never will be all it can be but if you don't know any better then you don't know what you are missing too.

[stjimmy]

dude... i started uploading some pix but then i realized, it's probably not worth the effort.

you did manage to get more condescending without really addressing any of my opinions, so i guess you can be congratulated for that.

pretty obvious you never read cannabisworld or overgrow, and after this dumbassed reception i'm beginning to realize why none of them are posting here either.

but by all means, continue on with your jackassery, sir. flushing those nutes down the drain every week or so is just what the companies who make them want you to do.

[Zandor]

dude... i started uploading some pix but then i realized, it's probably not worth the effort.

you did manage to get more condescending without really addressing any of my opinions, so i guess you can be congratulated for that.

pretty obvious you never read cannabisworld or overgrow, and after this dumbassed reception i'm beginning to realize why none of them are posting here either.

but by all means, continue on with your jackassery, sir. flushing those nutes down the drain every week or so is just what the companies who make them want you to do.

Ah children they never learn. You send them to school, you buy them books and what do they do?

They tear the pages out and roll joints instead of learning; such a waist of life.

[Zandor]

We have a rule about flaming around here please refrain.

[stjimmy]

i tried to clarify and just got more "oh you crazy kids" crap

so you tell me that i dont know what i'm missing, yet if you had actually read my post i even said that i had TRIED the water changing ritual and didn't really notice any difference.

anyway, the admins updated the pending activations at another cannabis oriented site where the mods don't piss all over people's ideas without at least a proper discussion. what's funny is the idea isn't even mine; plenty of well-known people have documented how it works.

i'll try to watch the flaming. oh wait, no i won't, cause i'm not coming back here. cya.

[latewood]

awful funny stjimmy...commercial growers drip to waste all day everyday...there must be something to it...Zandor really wasn't condescending...he was just pointing out that It's a weed, you can grow it any way you want. I have never read a published book that advocated no changeout's...
It's funny too, every time this debate comes up, there is
always a guy that ends up saying...Just flush your nutes every week, what a waste...Grow the way you want. In the end no-one else cares, except you. I know I grow the way I want to. peace

[Zandor]

dude... i started uploading some pix but then i realized, it's probably not worth the effort.

you did manage to get more condescending without really addressing any of my opinions, so i guess you can be congratulated for that.

pretty obvious you never read cannabisworld or overgrow, and after this dumbassed reception i'm beginning to realize why none of them are posting here either.

but by all means, continue on with your jackassery, sir. flushing those nutes down the drain every week or so is just what the companies who make them want you to do.

Well it's your loss but happy growing anyway.

[Opie Yutts]

I read some are wondering how they can tell if a plant is lacking in a certain nute?
Read the chart I linked to in my post "You need this"

And, can't we all just get along? Sniff...

[Opie Yutts]

Just curious, if you guys were adding, say 3 gallons of nutes per day to a 12 gallon res. for 8 plants, would you still see the need to change them weekly, or is that enough change out?

[oldnslow]

i grow a sog similar to what zandor showed but with 18plants. My rez is a 50gal tote. The plants set down inside the top of the tote, and it can hold about 20 to 25gal. of nutes, and will feed the girls for about 3wks before the pump starts sucking air. I used to change the rez out every two or three wks, and also at the switch between veg and bloom. Some time ago i stopped changing out the nutes between veg and bloom. Then i stopped changing every 3 wks. Then i stopped changing between crops. Now i never change anything, ever. I set the ppm so that it slowly rises over those 3wks, and when its time to addback, its just plain tapwater. I never have noticed any nute deficiencies in either the veg or bloom cycle. About all i need to do is addback the water to the rez, and a little bit of nutes to bring the ppm back to where i want it, then we start all over again. As the water is used up, the ppm will slowly rise, and by the time the rez level gets low, the ppm is about as strong as i would want it to get, then we addback plain water, which drops the ppm, so i squirt in a little nute consentration to bring it back up again, and we start all over.

It takes a little practice to get it perfect, but i never dump expensive nutes anymore, which also pretty well ended any labor involved. You have to have a ph and ppm meter to do this tho.

I stopped changing nutes between crops, and i dont even clean and disinfect the system between crops for the past few yrs. In hot weather, i add a 1/4tsp of h2o2 per gal about every 2 weeks, and there has never been any root rot, pytheium, algae, or sickness in my crops, and i use Dyna gro products, which most "pros" wouldnt use if it was free, and zero additives, except from some h2o2 now and then.

Give it a try for yourself. Expermintation is the best way to see what works for you, and what wont. Good luck