Terror Storm

[eg420ne]

Video showing False Flag events throughout history :thumbsup: By Alex Jones

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7048572757566726569&q=Alex+Jones+-+Terror+Storm

[Marlboroman]

I watched this, at the end I think Alex really over does it, and in some ways is guilty of putting forth the very propoganda he protests.

But there is zero doubt in my mind that there is something going on, what that may be is still up in the air for me.

There are way too many questions to be answered and no one on the so called legitimate side of this will answer them. Atleast in a matter that is conclusive.

[graymatter]

I tried to sit through this, but I have to confess I couldn't get all the way through. Does anyone believe that this Alex Jones is the only person to profit from promoting paralyzing theories, dressed up in crafty leaps and twists of historical context?

I'm serious. How many people actually buy this crap?

If people oppose the "real policies" of the Bush administration I hope they don't waste their time on this garbage.

[eg420ne]

I agree Alex is a bit extreme but in these times you have to be. People need open up & take a good look at whats going on instead of taking what our GOVERNMENTS & their MEDEA tells us @ face value... All throughout history enlighten people tells us to question life to question the happenings of our world because if we dont then were just gonna keep getting run over, and throughout history people of power sought control over the masses, so we has humans have to question everything to get to the truth....... And your are right too many questions to be answered.. and all i have is questions

[eg420ne]

I tried to sit through this, but I have to confess I couldn't get all the way through. Does anyone believe that this Alex Jones is the only person to profit from promoting paralyzing theories, dressed up in crafty leaps and twists of historical context?

I'm serious. How many people actually buy this crap?

If people oppose the "real policies" of the Bush administration I hope they don't waste their time on this garbage.
And the question is how many people buy the governments crap, since when do we trust the government didnt our founding fathers question the government and even told its people too always question the government...

[DonnieDarko]

There will always be a small market for conspiracy whores, which validates the paranoia living inside the minds of some people.

I think that this stuff lends itself to an automatic "wacko" label by the majority of people.

[Marlboroman]

There will always be a small market for conspiracy whores, which validates the paranoia living inside the minds of some people.

I think that this stuff lends itself to an automatic "wacko" label by the majority of people.

Well to me you sound like a flat out denier.

"wacko" is your label to attack in order to discredit and or intimidate others.

The questions still need answers and thats what this is really about.

[graymatter]

Hey, Eg, the founding fathers set up a system of checks and balances, not paranoia. And I probably question the government (I assume they're guilty until proven innocent because political office tends to attract scoundrels.) more than most people.

Have you noticed that AJ spins his web with video and graphical elements that date back as far as....well, a culture conditioned to heighten interest through multi-media?

My bet is if this guy relied on print media he'd be out of business before he started.;)

[birdgirl73]

I'm with Gray Matter and Donnie. That stuff that Alex Jones and all the other conspiracists put out would be easier to believe if it were handled with any subtlty, but of course it's not. It inevitably features the most grave sound bytes and news scenes, all exaggeratedly cut together for the greatest dramatic effect. The most sinister, alarming music. The voice-of-doom voiceover. It's all designed to be highly persuasive, but if you filter out the high drama and look at it with any objectivity or common sense, the whole message strikes me as incredible. As in not very credible.

Eg420ne likes to dismiss those of us who chose to be a bit more discriminating about what we believe as "sheople" who simply line up and bite off what we've been given to chew by the mainstream media and the government. But he doesn't give us enough credit for having lived long enough and grown smart enough to filter out smoke and mirrors when we see them. Frankly, I'm a heck of a lot more likely to believe what the government or media put out than this continued absurdity you online conspiricists seem to lap up like mother's milk.

[graymatter]

Frankly, I'm a heck of a lot more likely to believe what the government or media put out than this continued absurdity you online conspiricists seem to lap up like mother's milk.

You go girl!!!!

[birdgirl73]

Gray Matter, have I told you lately that I love you?

Why is it, exactly, that the Internet seems to feed the conspiracist "bent"?

[graymatter]

Gray Matter, have I told you lately that I love you?

Why is it, exactly, that the Internet seems to feed the conspiracist "bent"?

Hey, back at ya! Good question... I suppose the internet gives just about any of us with a computer, video recorder and too many bong hits to plot out this sort of stuff.

Did you know that Blue Man Group was conceived in a college dorm?

[birdgirl73]

No, I didn't know that. But I'm glad to find it out now! I love the Blue Men. They're fascinating and sorta creepy at the same time. Creepy in a good way.

Wasn't DOS sorta worked out in the same way--Bill Gates as a Harvard student just fiddling around?

[graymatter]

No, I didn't know that. But I'm glad to find it out now! I love the Blue Men. They're fascinating and sorta creepy at the same time. Creepy in a good way.

Wasn't DOS sorta worked out in the same way--Bill Gates as a Harvard student just fiddling around?

I'm pretty sure he stole everything from IBM and Digital. I know he stole Windows from IBM's scrapped OS2 OS. Now he's the richest philanthropist in history... I love this country!

[eg420ne]

Well fuck it...but to those who have watched it what do you think about them convenient coincidences with these terrorist attacks.....is it a fluk in the space/time continuum or something...

[eg420ne]

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
Sir Winston Churchill

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."
Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)

"The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses."
Albert Einstein

[birdgirl73]

I'm pretty sure he stole everything from IBM and Digital. I know he stole Windows from IBM's scrapped OS2 OS. Now he's the richest philanthropist in history... I love this country!
This is a great place, isn't it?? Amazing!

What else did people steal that I don't know about?

[graymatter]

Hey, Eg420, I'm not trying to disrespect you. Your point about the space/time continuum is apt, however. I don't believe that human nature needs a maniacal historical plot in order to create mayhem or to seek control and dominance. Each generation is capable of producing its own tyrants and liberators... Peace!

[birdgirl73]

"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing ever happened."
Sir Winston Churchill

"The conscious and intelligent manipulation of the organized habits and opinions of the masses is an important element in democratic society. Those who manipulate this unseen mechanism of society constitute an invisible government which is the true ruling power of our country."
Edward Bernays, Propaganda (1928)

"The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses."
Albert Einstein
OK, well, here are a couple of quotations for you:
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Sir Winston Churchill

also

"Paranoia will destroy ya."
(Said by many. Heeded by not enough.)

[graymatter]

This is a great place, isn't it?? Amazing!

What else did people steal that I don't know about?

I don't know, but check the fridge... people I know tend to take things from my refrigerator.

[graymatter]

[QUOTE=birdgirl73]
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
Sir Winston Churchill
QUOTE]

"The Americans will always do the right thing, once they've exhausted the alternatives." -- Winston Churchill

[birdgirl73]

Yes, I have that refrigerator theft problem down here. The perpetrator seems to be my own flesh and blood, who has the metabolism of a steam train and an appetite to match. I boiled two and a half pounds of shrimp earlier today for supper tonight. Also cut up a canteloupe and some strawberries. Washed and cut up some raw veggies and made ranch dip. Fortunately, I didn't make any other sides ahead of time. These culinary efforts--humble as they were--met with said appetite sometime between 1 and 3 p.m. and were pretty well eaten up, leaving his father, aunt and me with only a tiny leftover percentage of our planned supper.

I'm thinking of putting a lock on the refrigerator until he goes back to school in August.

[eg420ne]

My dog smokes brownies

"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance."
James Madison (1751-1836

"The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media."
William Colby (Former CIA Director)

The exact contrary of what is generally believed is often the truth."

[birdgirl73]

Is that your brownie-smoking dog, Eg420ne? He's charming!

[eg420ne]

No its just a file picture i have saved, but i do have a big weiner dog that loves to sit next to me & others when ever a smoking session is taking place

[graymatter]

No its just a file picture i have saved, but i do have a big weiner dog that loves to sit next to me & others when ever a smoking session is taking place

Weiners are cool dogs...

[eg420ne]

Hell yeah :thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

Hey! He's charming!!! What a cool dog!

I don't have a weiner dog. Not yet, at least. But seeing his picture makes me want one.

Here's one of mine. A notorious stealer of small nuggets of bud or stems. I learned this the hard way. Now she goes in her crate if weed comes out. Maybe she can't help herself because of her Mexican heritage. . .

[birdgirl73]

Heck, I was fully expecting a lot of grief after I posted that picture of my dog. I know full well she's funny looking.

I was just waiting for comments like, "Are you sure that's not a fruit bat?" and "Y'all have a lot of trouble with Texas sewer rats?"

You know, the same sorts of things I hear here at home. . .

Instead I got silence.

Y'all are going too easy on me!!!!

[Psycho4Bud]

Heck, I was fully expecting a lot of grief after I posted that picture of my dog. I know full well she's funny looking.

I was just waiting for comments like, "Are you sure that's not a fruit bat?" and "Y'all have a lot of trouble with Texas sewer rats?"

You know, the same sorts of things I hear here at home. . .

Instead I got silence.

Y'all are going too easy on me!!!!

Why would anyone pick on that cutey???:D BEAUTIFUL pup you have there! I'm a real dog lover...as for myself, I'm more into the larger breeds....German Shepard, Mastiffs, etc....
My last one was 1/2 shepard, 1/4 malamute, and 1/4 Alaskan timber wolf. NICE dog....damn ex-wife got that one though. Miss the dog more than her for sure!!!:dance:

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

You're very sweet, my friend Psycho4Bud, and thanks for the nice compliment about Miss Lily. She's one crazy little dog, but I enjoy her. I have another one, too, whose name is Daisy. Daisy looks like the Taco Bell dog.

I like bigger dogs, too, but I have a problem in that larger dogs always sense right away that I'm not the one in charge. I never seem to be able to claim my rightful position as alpha pack-leader. So they get away with murder. The same is true with smaller dogs, too, but at least they don't get into quite as much trouble. I can at least manage to intimidate and/or master smaller dogs some of the time. My husband thinks the problem is because I grew up in a cats-only household and so got into the bad habit of letting animals do what they wish since, of course, that's the way cats function.

[graymatter]

Heck, I was fully expecting a lot of grief after I posted that picture of my dog. I know full well she's funny looking.

I was just waiting for comments like, "Are you sure that's not a fruit bat?" and "Y'all have a lot of trouble with Texas sewer rats?"

You know, the same sorts of things I hear here at home. . .

Instead I got silence.

Y'all are going too easy on me!!!!

How about "Badges, we don't need no stinkin' badges." --Treasure of the Sierra Madre

But, OK, that dog looks high, and I swear its eyeballing my sandwhich.

[birdgirl73]

She IS eyeballing your sandwich!!! And she usually is high, just from pure dog silliness. You nailed that. My other dog, Daisy, is the real resident chow-hound, however.

If this little doggie could get close enough to you, she'd give you a quick licking kiss. Heck, I might do that myself. I'm feeling frisky tonight, and no one will play with me. . .

[graymatter]

If this little doggie could get close enough to you, she'd give you a quick licking kiss. Heck, I might do that myself. I'm feeling frisky tonight, and no one will play with me. . .

Yeah, now you're talkin'!

[graymatter]

She IS eyeballing your sandwich!!! And she usually is high, just from pure dog silliness.

And hey, check out NiftyFiftys avatar... it looks like your dog on bad drugs.

[birdgirl73]

It does look like my dog!!! I've never seen that avatar before. Thanks for telling me about it.

I'm going to sign off now and go awaken my half-asleep husband. I have plans for him . . . Hasta manana!

[eg420ne]

birdgirl you have a nice lookin friend maybe my dog can get with yours j/k

[GreenKing11]

I don't think Mr. Jones was radical or went too far at all, is he supposed to sugar coat the truth? I challenge anyone hear to prove anything in that documentary wrong. It's just all conspiracy theories that our government has staged admitted, actual admitted terror attacks, tons of them, in the last 60 years. Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, etc... etc.. I would include 9/11 but that's not admitted.

[graymatter]

I don't think Mr. Jones was radical or went too far at all, is he supposed to sugar coat the truth? I challenge anyone hear to prove anything in that documentary wrong. It's just all conspiracy theories that our government has staged admitted, actual admitted terror attacks, tons of them, in the last 60 years. Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, etc... etc.. I would include 9/11 but that's not admitted.

Hey, Green, where does AJ fit in the government? Where do you and I fit? The government behaves the way WE elect them to? LBJ and GW were given a blank check by some politically aligned lawmakers, but most were ill advised, uninformed or just too lazy to dissent.

This stuff is intended to make people throw up their hands and say, "Whoa, dude, look what THEY are doing to us." :confused:

[birdgirl73]

birdgirl you have a nice lookin friend maybe my dog can get with yours j/k
Thanks, EG420ne! I'm sure our two would have a great time if they could get together. Lily loves other dogs and loves to play. Our other dog is a lot older and more sedentary, and so Lily doesn't get enough opportunities to romp and be crazy. Consequently, she's established a close--some would say too close--relationship with one of our cats, who will wrestle and chase her all she wants.

[Marlboroman]

[QUOTE=graymatter] The government behaves the way WE elect them to?

QUOTE]


You have answered your own question and have shown your own doubt in the system.

I do agree with Birdgirl on the point of the sinister music and flash type bring on the feel of impending doom. And it has a negetive impact on AJ's overall message, like the very propaganda he protests he is useing fear to get results.

Allot of people dont recognize the importance of sound on a given situation. You can take the Rodney King beating, set it to mozart and it suddenly wont seem as bad as it really was.

On the other hand however, I think it irresposible to overlook the questions posed in the video, simply because you dont like the music.

Dont overlook the admitted attacks that goverments have perpetrated for their own benefit, Gulf of Tonkin, Northwoods.

Our goverment does act as we have elected them to, why do you think we only have 2 choices for commander and chief ? Doesnt really matter which we elect, both sides seem to have the same agenda, to further divide the American people.

We are being led, we are not being given enough, truthful information, and I for one dont like the path. A consipacy is only a theory if you dont have evidence that supports the theory, calling something a conspiracy theory when so much evidence is present to support it, to me seems illogical.

I dont think it a theory at all to say that we have been lied to, and scared into giveing up our freedoms.

My opinion is that that most fall into a state of denial following the path of the victim. That is to say that in ones mind it is easier to except a false truth rather than face the pain of being made a victim. On a smaller scale you can see this cycle in battered wives.

"He made a mistake, he really loves me" she tells the police with a broken nose and a black eye.

" these copnsipacy theorists are crazy" we say to ourselves with our freedoms eroding, and our troops in a foreign land fighting based on a known lie.

The way AJ comes across is extreme yes, but that shouldnt erode the overall message. Look thru your own fear, and actually consider the information.

[graymatter]

Hey, Marlborro, I think our government is what WE make of it. Even if they tried to plot 9/11 they'd of fucked it up.

But I'd be curious how many people that subscribe to this stuff actually vote, write, call, badger, cajole or visit their elected representatives?

[birdgirl73]

My guess is that very few of them do. If they did, they'd be more invested in--and feel more responsible for--the government. Instead, with complete disconnection, the government becomes the conspiratorial, sinister, predatory "they" the conspiricists all want us to be so afraid of.

[Marlboroman]

I agree APATHY is the true killer of democracy.

However both of you have, again, sidestepped the the topic of conversation and again, ignored the questions raised in the original post, via the AJ video.

An example of the questions:

Are the so called "facts" stated in the video actually facts?

If they are, then that leads to even more questions.

In my opinion the video in question is one mans answer to to one question given that the "facts" are true.

Whats it all leading upto?

AJ says its global tyrrany, I say I have no idea altho its clear there is a goal.

What do you say it is?

[graymatter]

Whats it all leading upto?

AJ says its global tyrrany, I say I have no idea altho its clear there is a goal.

What do you say it is?

I don't know, either, Marlborro, but perhaps it means,

A) God and Satan battle it out on PPV but Charles Manson wins
B) Global Powerball yields bigger jackpots
C) In a cost savings measure IBM outsources their helpdesk to Mars
D) Cheaper tariffs on French wine... who can afford it now?

Sorry, got a little carried away....

[pisshead]

Video showing False Flag events throughout history :thumbsup: By Alex Jones

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7048572757566726569&q=Alex+Jones+-+Terror+Storm

so i've watched about 30 minutes of it because i can't watch the rest right now, it was nothing i didn't already know...but all it did so far was go over the history of governments using staged terrorism and using deliberate propaganda through their media to portray something different to get the population to go along with war abroad and tyranny at home.

hitler, the cia coup in iran/operation ajax, operation gladio, the gulf of tonkin, cuban flight 455, the uss liberty (one of the most egregious in my opinion, next to 9/11), the madrid 3/11 bombing, the london 7/7 bombing (the bus that the police had control of that was rerouted to where there are no stops for it, to tavistock square, the patsy "terrorists" and everything else to do with that that's too numerous to mention, that lady who says we should give up our liberty for freedom...wow. what can i say about that. talk about doublethink.)...

history's full of it and it continues to go on and none of it is a secret anymore. it's just easier for some to ignore.

[birdgirl73]

I'm curious what the conspiracist "call to action" is.

That is, assuming you can get enough people to buy into the idea that our governments have staged terroristic acts in order to achieve global tyranny, what do you expect everyone to do? How do you expect us to change our behavior or somehow change these so-called circumstances? What's your goal in disseminating this information you believe so stongly in?

If you believe those of us who are skeptical of conspiracies are ignoring vitally important facts, what do you think will become of us that'll somehow be different from what'll happen to those of you who've seen conspiracies around every corner? When tyranny finally reigns supreme, will we who've been blithely "burying our heads in the sand" be more vulnerable than you?

Also, do you also see conspiracies in other areas of life? In your spouses and children? Your bosses at work? Your physicians and accountants? The guy at the Taco Bell drive-through? I'm curious about that, too.

[Marlboroman]

I don't know, either, Marlborro, but perhaps it means,

A) God and Satan battle it out on PPV but Charles Manson wins
B) Global Powerball yields bigger jackpots
C) In a cost savings measure IBM outsources their helpdesk to Mars
D) Cheaper tariffs on French wine... who can afford it now?

Sorry, got a little carried away....

I can only guess what your trying to say is that what im talking about makes no sense to you, so your saying things that make no sense to me.

But what I clearly see is that you seem to be unable to view the occurrences with an open mind, and without a doubt unable to discuss them in a mautre manner.

[pisshead]

I don't think Mr. Jones was radical or went too far at all, is he supposed to sugar coat the truth? I challenge anyone hear to prove anything in that documentary wrong. It's just all conspiracy theories that our government has staged admitted, actual admitted terror attacks, tons of them, in the last 60 years. Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, etc... etc.. I would include 9/11 but that's not admitted.

what i saw so far was hardly radical...talking about history...yeah, that's really out there.

how are you supposed to sugar coat our country turning into a pan american union dictatorship through a series of staged terrorist attacks?

[birdgirl73]

Present us with something--video, text, whatever--Marlboroman, that presents these so-called facts in an open-minded, unbiased fashion, and you'll have a better chance of getting a more serious examination of those facts from us skeptics. My impression is that no such unbiased single source for these "facts" exists.

I find Gray's penchant for answering absurdity with more ludicrous absurdities rather charming. Conspiracist gravity unfailingly meets his humorous depravity.

[Marlboroman]

I'm curious what the conspiracist "call to action" is.

That is, assuming you can get enough people to buy into the idea that our governments have staged terroristic acts in order to achieve global tyranny, what do you expect everyone to do? How do you expect us to change our behavior or somehow change these so-called circumstances? What's your goal in disseminating this information you believe so stongly in?

If you believe those of us who are skeptical of conspiracies are ignoring vitally important facts, what do you think will become of us that'll somehow be different from what'll happen to those of you who've seen conspiracies around every corner? When tyranny finally reigns supreme, will we who've been blithely "burying our heads in the sand" be more vulnerable than you?

Also, do you also see conspiracies in other areas of life? In your spouses and children? Your bosses at work? Your physicians and accountants? The guy at the Taco Bell drive-through? I'm curious about that, too.

Well I for one see no course of action to be taken, simply because I am not convinced of a specific outcome.

I have no idea what is to come in the future. I think if what AJ says is true then no, you are no more vulnerable then me. Nor do I pretend to know what to do in order to change said outcome.

I am not disseminating any information, I am simply trying to discuss the information at hand.

No, I do not see conspiracies around every corner, when I notice something is going on, the first question I ask myself is does it effect me, then, how does it effect me, then, is there a course of action to be taken, then, what course of action can be taken, then, whether I want to take action.

So far on all of the global tyranny issues I am still on how does it effect me, since I have not seen all of the effects on myself the rest of the questions cannot be answered.

Some of the effects, high gas prices, friends children wounded or killed in action, daily anxiety rideing LIRR trains and MTA subways, higher prices in comsumer goods due to gas pricing, random bag searches in PENN station/Grand Central Station/Subway stations, being subject to K-9 searches while waiting for the train.

The only information I know to be fact, is that WE as a country are giveing up freedoms in the face of a threat.

How the forfeit of these freedoms will effect me in the future cannot be known. Will these freedoms ever be returned? This also can not be known.

There is enough evidence to suggest that the threat we are under may not be the threat we are told it is.

All I am trying to do is have an adult conversation with other adults about how these issues affect our lives.

Simply saying there is nothing you can do about these things is the verbal form of the difinition of APATHY.

[Marlboroman]

Present us with something--video, text, whatever--Marlboroman, that presents these so-called facts in an open-minded, unbiased fashion, and you'll have a better chance of getting a more serious examination of those facts from us skeptics. My impression is that no such unbiased single source for these "facts" exists.

I find Gray's penchant for answering absurdity with more ludicrous absurdities rather charming. Conspiracist gravity unfailingly meets his humorous depravity.

Well I am not here to present you with any information, merely to discuss the information at hand. I have already agreed with you that the presntation style of AJ is fear based, however so is O'Rielly.

I am able to put aside the biased presentation, and look at the information presented, if the information that is presented in the video is false then in this thread you should show proof of it being fictitious.

Can you show an unbiased presentation to that account?

[birdgirl73]

I see that you are indeed simply wanting to discuss the facts, Marlboroman. And I can understand that. Actually, you weren't the information "disseminator" I was referring to there. I think Pissy is the main disseminator here on this board.

So the freedoms you feel you've given up are those such as wiretapped phones, other things covered by the Patriot Act, gas prices, searches, etc.? I'm not sure how the sacrifice of these freedoms has affected me, either, or whether or not I currently believe it has affected me personally. I know I don't want my child sacrificed to a war with Iran (or any other war, for that matter, but I think at least our actions in Afghanistan have valid justificaiton).

Pardon me for changing the topic briefly here, MarlboroMan, but who in the world is that pictured in your avatar? The face looks eerily familiar, but I can't identify him. Looks a bit like one of the characters on one of the Brit-coms I sometimes watch.

[Marlboroman]

I see that you are indeed simply wanting to discuss the facts, Marlboroman. And I can understand that. Actually, you weren't the information "disseminator" I was referring to there. I think Pissy is the main disseminator here on this board.

So the freedoms you feel you've given up are those such as wiretapped phones, other things covered by the Patriot Act, gas prices, searches, etc.? I'm not sure how the sacrifice of these freedoms has affected me, either, or whether or not I currently believe it has affected me personally. I know I don't want my child sacrificed to a war with Iran (or any other war, for that matter, but I think at least our actions in Afghanistan have valid justificaiton).

Pardon me for changing the topic briefly here, MarlboroMan, but who in the world is that pictured in your avatar? The face looks eerily familiar, but I can't identify him. Looks a bit like one of the characters on one of the Brit-coms I sometimes watch.

I dont want my children to go to war either, I wont use the word sacrifice because it lends itself to the belief that their death would be for a given outcome.

I am not convinced that the US invasion of Afganistan was justified either. With there being so much evidence that the twin towers were brought down by explosives, that would make Afganistan based on a lie. I am not convinced of either theory, terrorist, or explosives.

About being effected by the freedom breaches, ya that is certainly a tough one, I believe the patriot act also defines the term "terrorist" as being anyone who "protest" the US Gov. policies. "protest" also being defined.

To those accounts I cannot be positive, but I do know that they can deem anyone a "terrorist" and detain them for any length of time with no disclosure to anyone as to what evidence supports their claims.

It hasnt happen to me and more than likely never will, altho that doesnt settle my uneased feeling that it shows progression in an alarming direction.

The Avatar is just a pic I pulled off the net, I think it funny to have such a hillbilly looking man with my name, sort of the anti Marlboroman if you will.

[birdgirl73]

Can you show an unbiased presentation to that account?
No, nothing more than mainstream news and their attribution of the 9-11 events to terrorists. But I'm a trained journalist myself, and so I feel certain that if the evidence were overwhelmingly in favor of some other cause of those events like a government conspiracy, they'd be all over that. As it stands now, I only see a very fringe element who seems to believe that angle. So I will continue to remain very skeptical.

I've got to sign off for a bit now. I just made the decision to wash my neighbor's cat, and it was very traumatic for both of us. I'm the only one with lacerations, however. My neighbors don't accept responsibility for this animal or care for it, and it was filthy. I'm preparing to introduce it into my household now that it's clean. (Assuming it'll forgive me and I survive these cuts.) Be back online later!

[GreenKing11]

Birdgirl, look up Martial Law, 9/11: Rise of the Police State on video.google.com. It's Alex Jones last documentary.
I'd say about 99% of documentaries use music in the background.. In specific what does he do to try and persuade people other than using the facts? He makes his documentary look professional and high quality, that is all. Is he not supposed to do that?

"open minded, unbiased fashion" What did Alex Jones say that was not open minded or unbiased? Alex Jones has been doing this for probably 15 years, I don't think he needs to say.. "well, George W. Bush just might be a nice guy, I don't know, I need to be unbiased and open minded." What the hell did he say that wasn't a fact? Can you even answer that? I don't think Alex Jones needs to do anything except do what he's doing, present the facts and the truth of what is going on. He's sick of watching America be destroyed so he's doing something about it.

I'd say I'm pretty sick of the New World Order and Neo-cons running sex-slave rings of children, setting up terrorist attacks, slaughtering thousands of people, etc... Do I have to wear a smile just because it might look like I'm not open minded? No, I'm fucking mad about it. The only thing I need is the truth and the facts.

Look up the official documents! Operation Northwoods(government planning on staging terrorist attacks and pinning the blame on Cuba), Presidential Decision Direct WI199(Bush ordered feds off of al' qeada in the months before 9/11), PNAC's Rebuilding America's Defenses(where Cheney says they need a "pearl harbor" like event to speed up the new world order), declassified documents. Are those documents not open minded, are those documents bias?

[slowthestone]

Ever wonder why conspiracy theorists see possibility...and skeptics always wave the propaganda flag?

Tell ya what folks...paranoid, cynics, and conspiracy theorists are a tool for digging up what actually is fact and truth.

The more noise any of those types make, the more a person should take notice and give those folks an audience.

(it doesnt take long to realize you're speaking with someone rational, or someone somewhere in the neighborhood of Jupiter.)

And then you have to EXPECT a counter from those that are working and manipulating fact.

Take today for example...it took 4 days for George Bush and Dick Cheney to get their undies in a knot regarding the fact that the NY Times had outed yet another secret tool of the administration. lol...and those two fukwits act like its top secret and crucial that the U.S. has been tracking finacial records of targeted individuals for as long as I can recall.

Manuel Antonio Noriega anyone?

Hey, I'm not suggesting every theory is valid. But if you're a seeker of truth, ya owe it to yourself to roll up your sleeves and make sound, logical choices about the things presented to you.

[graymatter]

I can only guess what your trying to say is that what im talking about makes no sense to you, so your saying things that make no sense to me.

But what I clearly see is that you seem to be unable to view the occurrences with an open mind, and without a doubt unable to discuss them in a mautre manner.

Marlborro, I actually respect the fact that you're holding out judgment. You seem like a thoughtful person.

And I didn't mean to offend you but I've seen enough of this to conclude it's rubbish. My point earlier was never really answered. How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident/non? The answer is they gave it to him because they were sleeping on the job, and he pretty much started our failed policy in Vietnam, but it wasn't anywhere close to world domination.

One correction, don't assume I'm immature because I give flip and satiricle responses.... Peace.

[Marlboroman]

Marlborro, I actually respect the fact that you're holding out judgment. You seem like a thoughtful person.

And I didn't mean to offend you but I've seen enough of this to conclude it's rubbish. My point earlier was never really answered. How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of Tonkin incident/non? The answer is they gave it to him because they were sleeping on the job, and he pretty much started our failed policy in Vietnam, but it wasn't anywhere close to world domination.

One correction, don't assume I'm immature because I give flip and satiricle responses.... Peace.

I dont think that AJ was makeing Tonkin bay out to be a play for world domination, but rather offering it as historical evidence as to attacks that have been committed by governments on themselves.

When you put your imagination to it you can come up with a whole slue of outcomes and reasons to what is going on, around the world and here at home. With that in mind I'll say that there are entirely too many cenarios to make a guess. Which in my eyes is what AJ is doing, he's makeing an educated guess, nothing more. I think he believes what he is saying to be true.

I also have seen too much evidence to completely discount what the man is saying, altho that doesnt mean I have to believe it as he does.

This is the ability to have empathy, to understand what and how someone believes without shareing their emotion for it.

Correction noted, to call you imature is not valid.

[birdgirl73]

I'm going to do a sanity-saving thing here and withdraw from this thread now. It's been nice chatting with everyone, but I'm clearly now only inciting more conspiracists, and to be completely honest, that both spooks and exhausts me. I see this as a snowballing uphill battle.

Best of luck with your conspiracies! (I'm not sure what the proper parting words are here.) Marlboro, I hope we'll talk again. I respect what you've said here.

[slowthestone]

How can an entire U.S. CONGRESS conspire to give LBJ a blank check based on the Gulf of TonkinWar Declared incident/non?

I'll have a go at that...and say...momentum, persuasion, manipulation, and then a really nice one...doing what they believe will secure their seat in an upcoming election.

Have a look at the historical records of every publicly known war/confrontation ever since such things went 'formal'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

Out of 24 declarations, 5, (Iraq, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf, Mexican American War, and the war of 1812- two of those two centuries ago), received any contention from opposed members of either the House or The Senate.

Food for thought eh.

[Marlboroman]

No, nothing more than mainstream news and their attribution of the 9-11 events to terrorists. But I'm a trained journalist myself, and so I feel certain that if the evidence were overwhelmingly in favor of some other cause of those events like a government conspiracy, they'd be all over that. As it stands now, I only see a very fringe element who seems to believe that angle. So I will continue to remain very skeptical.

I've got to sign off for a bit now. I just made the decision to wash my neighbor's cat, and it was very traumatic for both of us. I'm the only one with lacerations, however. My neighbors don't accept responsibility for this animal or care for it, and it was filthy. I'm preparing to introduce it into my household now that it's clean. (Assuming it'll forgive me and I survive these cuts.) Be back online later!

I would think that being a trained journalist that you would noticed coincidents, patterns or whatever you would like to call the smoke from the fire, and then form questions based on those observations.

Seems odd to me that being trained as a journalist you wouldnt be able to filter out the theatrics and focus on the information being given.

Do you not have unanswered questions of your own?

[birdgirl73]

I can filter out the theatrics and have. But the theactrics themselves, along with other matters, still cause me to question the validity of the info.

Sure I have questions. I have questions about all of it, from the official line stories to the conspiracies. I'm too smart not to.

[Marlboroman]

I can filter out the theatrics and have. But the theactrics themselves, along with other matters, still cause me to question the validity of the info.

Sure I have questions. I have questions about all of it, from the official line stories to the conspiracies. I'm too smart not to.

Care to share?

[graymatter]

I'll have a go at that...and say...momentum, persuasion, manipulation, and then a really nice one...doing what they believe will secure their seat in an upcoming election.

Have a look at the historical records of every publicly known war/confrontation ever since such things went 'formal'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

Out of 24 declarations, 5, (Iraq, Afghanistan, Persian Gulf, Mexican American War, and the war of 1812- two of those two centuries ago), received any contention from opposed members of either the House or The Senate.

Food for thought eh.

Hey, slowthestone, good point on the war making consent. Checks and balances don't typically kick in until we see the progress/lack and the toll.

I think the argument centers on intentions. AJ makes his millions on the message that some malevolent force guides the intentions of world leaders to seek global domination. If people really believe this then I might just suggest we move these threads to Spirituality.

I don't need to dive into the minutia of every proposition to understand the absurdity of the theme. Political leaders lead a sloppy, contentious battle to achieve their aims in varying degrees of success and failure. So, while I believe GW's administration is arrogant and short sighted, I don't believe they have Frodo's ring or Darth Vader's playbook... Peace!

[pisshead]

so i watched the rest of it. the music didn't really bother me. overall, it looked like a typical documentary. the graphics and animations weren't an eye-sore, it looked like something you'd see on cable.

but that's not what's important, that stuff doesn't matter. the information it contained is what's important, and it's all documented.

i'll do my best to keep an open mind and not pay attention to it.

[Marlboroman]

i'll do my best to keep an open mind and not pay attention to it.

OK Piss, as funny as this statement is, doesnt mean noone is paying attention.

To me keeping an open mind means, trying my best to view both sides objectively.

If what AJ says is true, then what would you suggest we as the people do about it?

If it goes as far as he says, then how do you propose to stop the progession?

Because, going down that road to me screams revolution, I could be wrong, and i hope i am, I would hope that even if AJ is right, there would still be a peacefull end to it all.

[slowthestone]

I watched all of terror storm...and then I found 'loose change'.

It's far more compelling, way less ranty big mouth with a blow horn...and left me feeling like I got kicked in the gut...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801