Photo Grow Journal - "The Producer" Grow Cabinet - Start To Finish

[GrowerXLT]

Well after months of saving I finally purchased "The Producer" grow box from BC Northern Lights for about $3000 including shipping. For those of you who don't know what "The Producer" is please check out this link below for more info.
http://www.bcnorthernlights.com/?page=home

Basically it is a totally self contained grow box including:

2 - 430 Watt Lights
1 - Drip Hydro System With Room For 18 Plants
1 - Master Controller That Controlls Watering, C02, Fans, and Lighting
1 - Carbon Filter
1 - C02 Regulator That Hooks Up To Tank (Not Included)
4 - Fans (2 For The Lights & 2 For The Grow Chamber)

I am using General Hydroponics Flora Nova nutrients. My water goes through reverse osmosis and before adding nutes it at about 3 PPM. I drain the reserivor every week and replace with fresh water/nute solution. I also make sure my water/nute solution's pH stays at about 5.4-6.0. I check the pH about every other day. I am using 17 White Widow clones and am about exacty 1 month into my grow.

I am writing this journal so I can give something back to the community that has provided with with such great information. Please don't hesistate to ask me any questions or tell me what I am doing wrong. I appreciate any and all comments.

Now onto the photos.

[Pothead4204life]

...ahem....photos.....???.....

[GrowerXLT]

This is day 1 for me because this is the fisrt day I had the clones. They are probably 1-2 weeks since being cut off the mother.

Pic 1 - Overview of the all the clones. (Note the fans in the upper corners)
Pic 2 - Left Side
Pic 3 - Right Side (The spot with no plant is where I access the reservoir)
Pic 4 - Clone that didn't make it.
Pic 5 - Happy Clone.

[GrowerXLT]

Here are some photos from day 4 on 06-01-2006.

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Far Left
Pic 3 - Far Right

[GrowerXLT]

Day 10 - 06-07-2006

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Far Left
Pic 3 - Far Right

[GrowerXLT]

Day 12 - 06-09-2006

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right

[Trivium]

Awesome grower, this system is unique, Im here to see this for sure now brother.

[Garden Knowm]

HEY GROWER!!

thanks for the pictures.. this looks like it will be fun...

is there anything stopping the plants from growing into the lights...?

is there a glass barrier or something...?

how does the producer deal with HEAT?

thats a lot of watts for such a small area

THANKS again!!

iloveyou

[GrowerXLT]

Day 19 - 06-16-2006 - 5 Days Into Flowering

Well here are the fisrt photos I have of my leaves starting to yellow. I switched from 16/8 to 12/12 on Sunday 06-11-06. I also switched my nutes from General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow at 600 PPM to General Hydroponics Flora Nova Bloom at 450PPM.

I also started using neem oil and warm soap water to spray the plants on 06-11-06. I spray 1 day with the neem/soap water mix then two days with just plain water. I am supposed to continue this cycle for 2-3 weeks. In these photos they have been sprayed with the neem mixture only 2 times.

To summarize. Since the last set of photos here is what has changed:

Switched lighting from 16/8 --> 12/12
Switched nutes from Grow @ 600PPM --> Bloom @ 450PPM
Started using neem mixture to keep potential pest away.

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Yellow Tips
Pic 3 - Yellow Tips
Pic 4 - Yellow Tips
Pic 5 - Yellow Tips

[Garden Knowm]

HEy grower,

Your plants are showing signs of nut burn,
This seems very odd to me considering your PPM is very very low and some of leaves are showing NUT deficiency...

HOW is your PH?

You should consider flushing for 12-24 hours and refilling your reservoir from scratch..

iloveyou

[GrowerXLT]

HEY GROWER!!

thanks for the pictures.. this looks like it will be fun...

is there anything stopping the plants from growing into the lights...?

is there a glass barrier or something...?

how does the producer deal with HEAT?

thats a lot of watts for such a small area

THANKS again!!

iloveyou

Hi Garden Knowm,

Thanks for the kind words. Their is a glass barrier on both lights that effectively seperates the lights and ballast from the grow chamber area. Those lights and ballast are then cooled by two fans one blowing in and one blowing out.

Also the grow chamber area is also cooled by two fans. One blowing in and one blowing out. You can see them in the overview photos. Although they are relatively small fans they keep the grow chamber at about 85-90 degrees fahrenheit. Althought this is just a guess as I don't have a thermometer. My ambient temp arround my city is 75-85 most of the year.

I am pretty happy with how well it is handling heat considering the whole unit is just sitting inside a non ventilated garage. I think I could probably keep it about 5 degrees cooler if I were to add some fans to my garage that blow air out a small vent on the bottom of the wall.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Day 22 - 06-19-2006 - 8 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right

[GrowerXLT]

Day 22 - 06-19-2006 - 8 Days Into Flowering - PROBLEM PHOTOS

At this point thinking the problem was nute burn I cut back the nutes to 225 PPM. However in these photos the plants had only been at 225 PPM for 1 day.

Pic 1 - Yellowing
Pic 2 - Yellowing
Pic 3 - Yellowing
Pic 4 - Yellowing
Pic 5 - Yellowing

[GrowerXLT]

Day 24 - 06-21-2006 - 10 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right
Pic 4 - Super Sexy Close Up

[KillerDemo]

FINALLY somebody has a review of the producer, i want to buy one but dont kno how they produce.

[GrowerXLT]

Day 25 - 06-22-2006 - 11 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right
Pic 4 - Close Up 1
Pic 5 - Close Up 2

[keeko]

im very interested in this grow, it looks great so far, keep up the good work

[GrowerXLT]

Day 26 - 06-23-2006 - 12 Days Into Flowering - PROBLEM PHOTOS 1

Here are the best photos yet showing the yellowing tips, yellow spots, red stems, browning, curling, etc. At this point the plants have been at 225 PPM for 5 days. I cut them back from 450 PPM after thinking my problem was nute burn.

Pic 1 - Yellow Spots On Leaf
Pic 2 - Two Toned Leaf
Pic 3 - Red Stem On Leaf (Is This A Problem?)
Pic 4 - Red Stem On Leaf 2 (Is This A Problem?)
Pic 5 - Curling Leaf

[GrowerXLT]

Day 26 - 06-23-2006 - 12 Days Into Flowering - PROBLEM PHOTOS 2

Here are the best photos yet showing the yellowing tips, yellow spots, red stems, browning, curling, etc. At this point the plants have been at 225 PPM for 5 days. I cut them back from 450 PPM after thinking my problem was nute burn.

Pic 1 - Brown Tips
Pic 2 - Two Tones Leaves
Pic 3 - Brown Tips 2
Pic 4 - Tips Curling Up Now
Pic 5 - Yellowing & Curling Up

[GrowerXLT]

HEy grower,

Your plants are showing signs of nut burn,
This seems very odd to me considering your PPM is very very low and some of leaves are showing NUT deficiency...

HOW is your PH?

You should consider flushing for 12-24 hours and refilling your reservoir from scratch..

iloveyou

Garden Knowm,

I keep my pH at 5.5-6.0 and check it every other day. I calibrate my Hanna pH tester about every two weeks and always use Hanna storage solution.

I always change my nutes on Sunday so I guess I will do a flush and add only 3 PPM water at 5.6 pH for 24 hours & then I will go back to 450 PPM nute/water solution.

I thought I was being conservative by using 450 PPM. So I too am surprised that it is showing sign of nute burn.

This is my fisrt shot at growing so I truly appreciate your help. I also start the CO2 injection tomorrow so I am very excited about that.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Well I am getting ready to flush my plants and was wondering what should I expect durring this 24 hour period?

Are my plants going to yellow due to the lack of nutes?
Or is the period of time (24 Hours) too short to really cause any negative changes?

What else should I expect?

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[iStayblunted]

your place is kool man. your whole setup is fresh. your bud must be outstanding

[Sauce]

Very very nice clones you got there, I was looking into getting one of those
bloom boxes but the price turned me down. keep us updated

[Garden Knowm]

when you flush/ run plain water.. ph 5.8... your plants will basically just stop growing for 24 hours... it is actually possible to sustain plants like this for a very very long period of time... during this period the plant will basically get a clean bill of health... kinda like fasting for a human...

IF you ae using Co2 and your plants are flowering.. I can not figure out why you PPMs are not at 1000-1600...?

i look forward to seeing the outcome of your grow ...

: )
cheers

[GrowerXLT]

Garden Knowm,

I am wondering if the problems I am having are due using too little nutes and not too much nutes. Would the symptoms be simmialr to what I am experiencing?

I just started the CO2 injection toady 06-25-2006. The instructions that came with "The Producer" suggested not using CO2 until the second week of flowering and today is the start of the second week. So I guess we will see how that goes.

Also, what is a "normal" PPM for someone to use in a hydo system simmilar to mine? After the flush would it be safe for me to put the PPM to 900-1200?

I am using the lazy man's nutes, General Hydroponics Flora Nova Series. I call them the lazy man's nutes because their is no mixing like with the regular 3 part Flora Series here is a link:

http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floranova.html

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Day 27 - 06-24-2006 - 13 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Center
Pic 4 - Right

[GrowerXLT]

Well I am finishing up on my flush and was wondering what is a safe PPM to put my plants at. I was only using 450 before and apparently got signs of nute burn (see the previous posts in this thread). I even dropped the PPM to 225 for the last week and still was having yellowing leaves. So now I don't know if I should go up to 900 PPM or stay at the low 225-450. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[Zandor]

What was your Ph may have been as much of a Ph issue as over powering them with nutrients.

At that time in flower I normaly have mine about 1200 ppm from clones. From seed it's good around 900-1000 but you need to have your ph around 5-5 - 5.8

[Garden Knowm]

Garden Knowm,

I am wondering if the problems I am having are due using too little nutes and not too much nutes. Would the symptoms be simmialr to what I am experiencing?

I just started the CO2 injection toady 06-25-2006. The instructions that came with "The Producer" suggested not using CO2 until the second week of flowering and today is the start of the second week. So I guess we will see how that goes.

Also, what is a "normal" PPM for someone to use in a hydo system simmilar to mine? After the flush would it be safe for me to put the PPM to 900-1200?

I am using the lazy man's nutes, General Hydroponics Flora Nova Series. I call them the lazy man's nutes because their is no mixing like with the regular 3 part Flora Series here is a link:

http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/floranova.html

Thanks,

GrowerXLT




NOw you are thinking like a gardner.. yournutrients levels are definitley way to low.. but your plants are definitley being burned.. and you have to belive what you see.. as opposed to what some meter says...

once a leaf turns brown. its DEAD.. necrotic cells do not COME BACK from the dead....

so the only way to tell if your plant has recovered is from new growth...
and you would be the best one to see how that is.. cause you see your lants every day... they should be shooting up very tall now.. almost one inch a day for the first 2 - 3 weeks of flowering...

LIKE zandor said.. your PH is KEY...

you flushed for 24 hours correct?
is the new growth showing any signs of brown tips?
are the pistils staying white?

: )

[GrowerXLT]

Thanks for the replys Zandor and Garden Knowm. Well I ended up putting my PPM to 900 after the flush and I always keep my pH at 5.5-6.0 (Checked every 1 or 2 days). I changed the PPMs earlier today 06-27-06 so I am really nervous to see what the plants look like over the next few days.

Here is the big kicker. I don't have a TDS meter so when I say I put my PPMs at 900 it is based on General Hydroponics instructions on the nute label (TBS/Gallon ratio). I didn't really understand the importance of PPMs when I purchased my equipment. But now I am definitely going to buy one. So I guess it is off to the hydro store for me.

And yes the hairs stayed white and no new signs of problems with the flush. And even before the flush the plants have been growing at a steady pace and continue to due so.

I will update you all with some pictures over the next couple of days.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[Zandor]

what type of water did you say you used?

You should check and balance your Ph at least twice a day, every day. It's the swing that will kill you so monitor it close. With the money you spent you may want to pick up a wall mount Ph/tds monitor.

[Garden Knowm]

grower, you have to get a ppm meter...

I think you can find them on ebay for cheap


iloveyou

[GrowerXLT]

I use RO water that comes from a water store. I have never check its PPMs myself but the guy a the store says it is 3 PPM. Now that I purchased a PPM meter I can check myself.

After the flush the plants still seem to be showing yellowing on the tips of some of the leaves. However it is hard to tell if it is new yellowing or yellowing that was already there.

On the other hand, the bud production seems to be very nice. Especally since the CO2 has been going. The pistils are looking white and new ones are developing everyday. Overall the plants look good and only about 10-15% of the leaves have yellowing tips (I'll post new pictures tonight).

My new plan is the check the PPMs daily and see weater it goes up or down like this quote from a grow FAQ:

"Start with 1.00 EC (or a SAFE nutrient strength). Next day, if it reads 1.4, it means your plants have been using water and your nutrient solution is becoming more concentrated. This means the concentration of nutrients is too high, so you dilute.

If the meter reads lower than the previous day, 0.7 say, it tells you that the plants are eating nutrients faster than they are drinking water, so you should increase your nutrient strength. If it remains the same, your feeding schedule is on target for now. The nutrient/water intake fluctuates with the growth of the plant, so you must continually monitor it day to day."

http://growfaq.marijuana.com/growfaq/1248.htm

Does this sound like a good plan for me to determine the correct PPM to use for my system?

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Day 31 - 06-28-2006 - 17 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right

[Garden Knowm]

I am not interested about the PPM of the water before you put nutrients into it... (maybe a little)

I am interested in the PPM's after you put nutrients into it..

LOL

iloveyou

[s12fever]

damn those are some skills right there...
wish i could someday have a grow room like yours :o :D

[GrowerXLT]

Day 31 - 06-28-2006 - 17 Days Into Flowering - Close Ups

Pic 1 - Close Up Of Bud
Pic 2 - Close Up Of Bud
Pic 3 - Close Up Of Single Plant

[GrowerXLT]

damn those are some skills right there...
wish i could someday have a grow room like yours :o :D

Thanks s12fever, I wish I could say any of my progress was a result of skills. But at this point that just isn't the case. It is more just the result of so much light in such a small space :). If you had a similar setup I am sure you could do the same. It took me many months to save up for "The Producer" but I am definitely happy with my choice, for my current living situation (renting). Keep checking back this thread often because I will be posting new pics every 3 or 4 days.

[GrowerXLT]

I am not interested about the PPM of the water before you put nutrients into it... (maybe a little)

I am interested in the PPM's after you put nutrients into it..

LOL

iloveyou
Garden Knowm,

Well today I purchased my Hanna PPM meter and went home and calibrated, and then tested. My water was at 920 PPM. Right arround where I wanted it. Now I am going to check daily to see if their is any fluctuation and then follow the method from the above post to find my plants sweet spot. Thanks for all the help.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[Zandor]

When you use RO water (like I do) you need to add CalMag Plus. That is the problem I am seeing in your leaf.

The idea of using CalMag Plus is to replace some minerals found in water that the RO process removes. The plant needs them so you should use the recommended amount on the bottle with every res change and that will cure your nutrient uptake problem.

[GrowerXLT]

Zandor,

I will have to give the CalMag Plus a try. Thanks for the recommendation, I have a feeling that this is going to solve my problem. I have been keeping my nutes on the low side and ALWAYS keeping my pH between 5.5-6.0, and do not have any signs of pest. So I have been very confused about what the possible problem might be. I will keep you updated on the progress. You rock.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[Zandor]

I like your rthread. I think when you are done I will make it an FAQ on that type of grow system if that's ok with you.

[Sabrinaleena]

Yes, and FAQ for this type of grow box (Or the Bloom Box by the same company) would definitely be cool.

For a few days now I've been considering the Bloom Box by that same company. I've never done hydroponics before, and I'm not handy or experienced when it comes to designing or creating my own grow room. Also, I do have children and these boxes all come with locks. A regular grow room would be too easy for the kids to get into and this is MUCH more private and without the smell.

These self contained boxes are so pricey, but worth it for those who have nosey neighbors, children, or aren't in a position for guerilla farming.

Any, yes on that FAQ if you ever get the time, thanks :)


Sabrina

[GrowerXLT]

I like your rthread. I think when you are done I will make it an FAQ on that type of grow system if that's ok with you.

I would be honored to have this thread made into a faq. I will do my best to answer all the questions I had about this system before I bought it. I feel the manufacturer's site is somewhat lacking on the details.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Yes, and FAQ for this type of grow box (Or the Bloom Box by the same company) would definitely be cool.

For a few days now I've been considering the Bloom Box by that same company. I've never done hydroponics before, and I'm not handy or experienced when it comes to designing or creating my own grow room. Also, I do have children and these boxes all come with locks. A regular grow room would be too easy for the kids to get into and this is MUCH more private and without the smell.

These self contained boxes are so pricey, but worth it for those who have nosey neighbors, children, or aren't in a position for guerilla farming.

Any, yes on that FAQ if you ever get the time, thanks :)


Sabrina

Sabrina,

If you have any questions feel free to ask. I am more than happy to answer anything I can.

GrowerXLT

[Jdog7000]

Sabrina, I am also in Bako.
Good to see a fellow red neck. jk
I'm not a redneck. lol
I'm actually not from here.
But it's nice to see someone from the local area.
If you need help setting up your garden. Just post a thread so we can help you.

[GrowerXLT]

I went out and purchased some CalMag Plus today. I am going to wait until Sunday 07-01-06, the day I do my reservoir nute change untill I try it out. I will keep you all posted on how it works.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

I started using Cal-Mag Plus today. I am hoping that it will solve my yellowing and stunted growth problems which most likely started because I am using RO water that srtips it of nutrients like calcium, magnesium and iron. The Cal-Mag Plus replaces these. I can't wait to see the results. I will be sure to keep you all posted.


GrowerXLT

[Opie Yutts]

once a leaf turns brown. its DEAD.. necrotic cells do not COME BACK from the dead...

Oh come on. Haven't you ever seen "The Reanimator"?

[Dr.Smokealot]

hey growerxlt i was thinking of growing with hydrophonics but im still not sure. is it better than regular soil? cheaper? but neways , u said u got the producer, but i wanted to know if u new wut the price for the bloombox was , cuz it doesnt say.

[BlueBear]

Keep it up. This is booked marked for me. By the way The Producer is supposed to be featured as the winner of the best self contained system this fall in High Times. Spendy, but I may check it out, kids are getting older and cabinets with vents comeing from the side out the wall are starting to look a little odd to them. Hope you get that uptake problem solved.
Adieu

[heXa]

good job!

[BlueBear]

OK, the holiday should be over by the time you read this, give us an update. Hmm Hmm?

[GrowerXLT]

Day 39 - 07-06-2006 - 25 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Overview
Pic 2 - Left
Pic 3 - Right

[GrowerXLT]

Hello All,

As I stated in my previous post I started using Cal-Mag Plus. Unfortunately it hasn't seemed to help my yellowing, burning and stunted growth problems.

I keep now keep my 10 gal reservoir at 300 PPM Cal-Mag Plus and 900 PPM Flora Nova Bloom, for a total of 1200 PPM. I check my pH once per day and it is always at 5.5-6.0 and has seemed to stabilize over the last week to a constant 5.5-5.7.

When you look at the overview, left, and right photos it seems like all is well, but upon a closer look it is far from ideal. Over half the plants are stunted in their growth and are under 1 foot tall. Almost all the plants have yellowing of some type. Of the original 17 plants only about 4 are doing well. I am guessing that the 4 good plants will yield more than the other 13 "bad plants". I will be happy if I get 4 ounces (112 grams) total. Not too good for 17 plants under 860 watts of light in such a small space.

I am very frustrated that I can't find the cause of the problem. I was hoping that the Cal-Mag Plus was going to save me, but that just isn't the case. If anybody has any suggestions or insite on what to do please let me know.

Very Bummed,

GrowerXLT

[BlueBear]

Are your roots healthy? What color are they? How often are you changing your res?

[Dr.Smokealot]

nice pics!! i want to see what your yields are at the end of ur grow cuz im not sure if i should get the producer or the bloom box.

[GrowerXLT]

hey growerxlt i was thinking of growing with hydrophonics but im still not sure. is it better than regular soil? cheaper? but neways , u said u got the producer, but i wanted to know if u new wut the price for the bloombox was , cuz it doesnt say.

I paid $2800 + $200 Shipping when I ordered from a local hydro store. I see them for sale for $3200 with free shipping at http://www.bghydro.com and the price is the same for the producer and the bloombox.

As far as hydro being better then hydro or cheaper, I have no idea. I am sure you can find all sorts of debates on that subject.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Keep it up. This is booked marked for me. By the way The Producer is supposed to be featured as the winner of the best self contained system this fall in High Times. Spendy, but I may check it out, kids are getting older and cabinets with vents comeing from the side out the wall are starting to look a little odd to them. Hope you get that uptake problem solved.
Adieu

Hi BlueBear,

Still no luck with my uptake problem (if thats what it is?).

What I wanted to tell you was that "The Producer" still looks pretty funny to anyone with half a brain. It is kind of loud because of the fans, and light leaks out of the fan holes and around the doors.

I keep mine in my garage and don't have kids so I don't really have to worry. However I never can invite anybody into my garage becausee it is pretty obvious what it is. Espically with the switches on the front that say flower and veg.

GrowerXLT

Pic 1 - Doors Closed Light On
Pic 2 - Doors Closed Light Off
Pic 3 - Switches

[GrowerXLT]

Are your roots healthy? What color are they? How often are you changing your res?

I change my res every 7 days.

The roots of the sevierly stunted plants havent even grown out of the 3 inch rookwool cubes that are in the the 3 inch pots.

The good plants roots are a white/tan color.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

nice pics!! i want to see what your yields are at the end of ur grow cuz im not sure if i should get the producer or the bloom box.

Don't base your decision on my yield. I am having newbie problems.

The reason I bought the Producer and not the BloomBox was because I figured I could make a small mothering/clone box with a fluorescent light for pretty cheap. And since both boxes cost the same I would rather have 860 watts of light as with the Producer instead of 430 watts as with the BloomBox.

GrowerXLT

[BlueBear]

I change my res every 7 days.

The roots of the sevierly stunted plants havent even grown out of the 3 inch rookwool cubes that are in the the 3 inch pots.

The good plants roots are a white/tan color.

GrowerXLT

Well, at this point I wish one of the Mod's would chime in. I think that the roots not even growing through the Rockwool are the problem. Zandor has said quite a few things on this board that haven't been to favorable when it comes to using Rockwool as a mediam. Well hopefully he can bring his expertise to the subject.

But let me ask you one or two things. Before planting the seeds/clones in the Rockwool did you soke them in 5.5 PH distilled water solution? Perhaps you didn't think about it. I believe that the producer is a drip system if my memory serves me right, do you have the drippers dripping directly onto the Rockwool? If so this can be a problem depending on how long your drippers are on for. Rockwool can cause root rot problems when kept wet constantly. This with the way you soaked them in the first place may be a combination of the problem. Do a search on root rot and Rockwool and you may come up with something. In the mean time I will poke around too. Hope this helps some.

About the other things you were saying about the appearance of the units, my Misses and I went to the BC Northernlights site and checked out the boxes again and compared them to some of the other units out there and came to the conclusion that for stealth it does get two thumbs down. Even if you didn't know that it was a grow box you still would think that it looks odd. I know that a few people on here have went with the Cool Cab and the Caddie units from Sun Sheds and their experiences have differed, but with Sun Sheds you can go to their site and read their board and hear about the cabs in action. I am surprised that they keep the board open because of the fact that the users of the cabs have so many problems with the units, so for anyone interested in the Cool Cab or the Caddie, read SunSheds boards first. Not to say that they are all duds, but always do your R and D before you go spending the rent money on a grow box.
Adieu

[HARDDON]

No Roots = BIG PROBLEMS

Rock wool isnt the best but it does work and shoundn't have anything to do with your ongoing problems.

Review your thread.

Seems to me trouble started when you applied the neem oil to PREVENT pests, which doesn't work that way.

Perhaps you over did it with the neem oil. Neem can be very very very hard on new growth but even devestating on new roots. There is a chance that some neem got in the stem / root structure and did some permanent damage that the plants couold not recover from.

Regardless, this is a good thread, yet, the final product appears to be a light weight harvest, small buds, and stringy stemmy growth.

Seems a SOG grow is the only way to go with these boxes to fill that grow chamber up. Also, you (in the future) may want to try and top each plant a couple of times to get some horizontal growth.

Veg longer...you went to flower pretty quick.

Anyhow, you are learning, teaching, sharing and discovering all on your own.

And that my friend translates to: SUCCESS....regardless of your harvest.

Thanks for the presentation...I hope it works out.

[BlueBear]

Harddon do you think that he should still consider the rockwool saturation possibility? I know that saturated rockwool can choke the roots and block nute uptake. I know from reading your post that you have way more exp than me, but it seems like this could be a possibility as well. I have no exp with the oil so perhaps I am just way off. Well either way I am glad that someone else has brought more light to this sittuation.
Like Harddon said though, keep it up and just remember it is a learning exp. The things I know the best are the things I made the biggest messes out of first.
Adieu

[Sabrinaleena]

Since I've been considering getting the Bloom Box, I've been keeping a close eye on this thread as well, and thank you very much for sharing your adventures with us :D

I'm sorry about the difficulties you're having. One question I have though... if I were to get the Bloom Box, what else can I use to germinate seeds other than rock wool? It's not that I'm a rock wool hater, never used it myself. But I don't like the "idea" of it and I would rather germinate in something a bit more natural at first, and then switch over to the medium that the boxes use for veg and flowering. Is that possible, or am I stuck using rock wool?

Thanks :)

Sabrina

[BlueBear]

Well you can read up on using an aero cloner on the FAQ. Also, Jiffy peat moss pellets. You never need to swich to rockwool either, you can use grow rocks or lava rocks as the mediam instead of the rockwool.
Adieu

[Dr.Smokealot]

hey growerxlt is the producer really loud or kinda loud?

[GrowerXLT]

But let me ask you one or two things. Before planting the seeds/clones in the Rockwool did you soke them in 5.5 PH distilled water solution?

I believe that the producer is a drip system if my memory serves me right, do you have the drippers dripping directly onto the Rockwool? If so this can be a problem depending on how long your drippers are on for.

Adieu

BlueBear,

I didn' soak the clones in 5.5pH water before adding the 1 inch cube into the 3 inch cube.

The hydro system is a combo DWC/Drip system. The drippers do drip directly onto the rockwool. However they only go on twice a day for 5 minutes. So I do not think the rockwool is the problem becuase it stays relatively dry most of the day.

I do know for sure now that this is a root problem.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

No Roots = BIG PROBLEMS

Rock wool isnt the best but it does work and shoundn't have anything to do with your ongoing problems.

Review your thread.

Seems to me trouble started when you applied the neem oil to PREVENT pests, which doesn't work that way.

Perhaps you over did it with the neem oil. Neem can be very very very hard on new growth but even devestating on new roots. There is a chance that some neem got in the stem / root structure and did some permanent damage that the plants couold not recover from.

Regardless, this is a good thread, yet, the final product appears to be a light weight harvest, small buds, and stringy stemmy growth.

Seems a SOG grow is the only way to go with these boxes to fill that grow chamber up. Also, you (in the future) may want to try and top each plant a couple of times to get some horizontal growth.

Veg longer...you went to flower pretty quick.

Anyhow, you are learning, teaching, sharing and discovering all on your own.

And that my friend translates to: SUCCESS....regardless of your harvest.

Thanks for the presentation...I hope it works out.

Harddon,

Thanks for the reply. It definitely is a root problem. Now I must determine the best I can, what caused the stunted roots & root rot. I think you are most likely correct in thinking that the neem is the problem.

My question is, what do you think of this article:

http://growfaq.marijuana.com/growfaq/1667.htm

I followed it word for word thinking that it would be best to apply neem as preventive maintenance. You on the other hand directly contradict this. Do you think this artice is teaching me bad practices?

Also some important facts to note are:

1. My water is always about 86 degrees fahrenheit. I have read that this is too high for DWC, what do you think?

2. The drip system only waters for 5 minutes twice a day. So I doubt that the rockwool is the problem.

I have seen someone successfully do a SGROG with the BloomBox and I am thinking about doing something like this next cycle, due to the fact that I can grow less plants (which is a bonus do to the laws in my city/state).

I never topped my plants because I am a newbie and the general thought of cutting the main grow shoot scares me. But I guess this is something I will just have to get used to.

The reason I went to flower so quick was because I was scared that I was going to grow the plants to tall and burn them. I would imagine if I hadn't of fucked up my roots they would all have been much larger by now.

Man....it is so much cooler learning by doing something CORRECTLY as opposed to learning from my mistakes :confused:. But as you stated I am learning. Thanks again for taking time to help a newbie out. I very much appreciate it.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Since I've been considering getting the Bloom Box, I've been keeping a close eye on this thread as well, and thank you very much for sharing your adventures with us :D

I'm sorry about the difficulties you're having. One question I have though... if I were to get the Bloom Box, what else can I use to germinate seeds other than rock wool? It's not that I'm a rock wool hater, never used it myself. But I don't like the "idea" of it and I would rather germinate in something a bit more natural at first, and then switch over to the medium that the boxes use for veg and flowering. Is that possible, or am I stuck using rock wool?

Thanks :)

Sabrina

Sabrinaleena,

You can use a paper towel to germinate the seeds, then use any medium that you want to plant them in. My clones came in 1 inch Oasis Horticubes which fit perfectly in 3 inch rockwool cubes. I only used the rockwool because that is what comes with the system. But I am sure you can use any medium that you want as long as you can get it into the 3 inch net pots. I hope this helps.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Are your roots healthy? What color are they? How often are you changing your res?

BlueBear,

Thanks for asking the above question. You pointed me in the right direction so I can finally start to understand why my plants are doing poorly. You rock brother.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

hey growerxlt is the producer really loud or kinda loud?

Dr.Smokealot,

I would say that it is the equivalent of 8 computer fans. Each one of the four fans is about twice as loud as a computer fan. They say on their site that the unit is less loud than a computer fan. This is just not true.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

Day 41 - 07-09-2006 - 28 Days Into Flowering - Problem Photos

Here are some photo showing the stunted root growth that is affecting 13 out of my 17 plants.

Pic 1 - Stunted Root Growth Close Up
Pic 2 - Stunted Root Growth Close Up
Pic 3 - Stunted Root Growth Side View

[GrowerXLT]

Day 41 - 07-09-2006 - 28 Days Into Flowering - Problem Photos

Here are some photos showing the rotting roots affecting 4 out of my 17 plants. Its pretty sad because these are the roots of my "good" plants. :mad:

Pic 1 - Root Rot
Pic 2 - Root Rot

[GrowerXLT]

It was a day of mixed emotions for me. I am happy that I finally pin pointed my problems (thanks to all of your help) but am a little sad due to how prevalent and advanced the probelm is. So now to my BIG question:

What do I do now?

Is their anything I can do to "fix" my roots. I am thinking of washing the rotted roots off with some fresh water, possibly with a spray bottle. But what can I do about my stunted root growth on the majority of my plants? How can I get those roots to grow out of the pots and into the water?? Is their and additive I can add that would help at this point? As always any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks,

GrowerXLT

[BlueBear]

QUOTE=GrowerXLT]BlueBear,

Thanks for asking the above question. You pointed me in the right direction so I can finally start to understand why my plants are doing poorly. You rock brother.

GrowerXLT[/QUOTE]
Hey XLT, I am glad you have found a clue to your problem. It seems to me that at this point in the game you are so late into flowering that there isn't much you can do. I am going to do some snooping around and see if I can pick up any ideas though.
Perhaps washing off the roots in a peroxide salution may help, or adding a little peroxide to the res, 1tsp per.. I don't remember, need to search, also I am not sure if there are any negative affects with the nutes you are useing, what are they GH or advance? I know that the peroxide treatment can have a negative affect with organic nutes. Hope someone else can chime in as well.
I would also consider getting those roots out of that rockwool and placing them in grow rocks
or lava rocks as the mediam. At that point you can run the drippers 24-7 and perhaps your roots will respond a little better and might be able to produce some new growth.
New growth is going to be the key at this point. You need to get some cleaning salution for those roots, IE peroxide and then start looking for new root growth. Also, do you have any clones on stand by? Just something to think about.
PS. try to use the search tool and check out any related terms I mintioned above, I may or may not have time, but hopefully someone like Zandor can also check up on this thread, but I know that he is a busy fellow. Harddon, LW and GNome's help and any others help would be highly appreciated as well.
Adieu

[BlueBear]

I would get those roots out and spray them down with PH adjusted water. With the peroxide I would get some 3 Percent, the kind that is used for cuts, Wally Mart. You can use 100ML in a liter of distilled water. I am reaching, hope that someone else will give some more feed back.
I know that after making such a large investment that this is probably not what you expected so I am trying to help as much as I can bro.
Adieu

[Zandor]

I change my res every 7 days.

The roots of the sevierly stunted plants havent even grown out of the 3 inch rookwool cubes that are in the the 3 inch pots.

The good plants roots are a white/tan color.

GrowerXLT

Do the roots of the sick ones smell?
Or more like does the rockwool smell?

Are they all the same strain too?

You could be dealing with plytherwilt. It's common in Rockwool, there is an art to growing with it.

What is your water schedule again...I'm sure you answered somewhere but this great thread is to large to read. I just don't have that much time this month. (not that your post is that long) I just have a new project that is taking all my time right now.

I will stop back tomorrow AM and see if I can offer you any advice. The CalMag Plus was a good thing to add.

[Garden Knowm]

Grower..

sorry about the root rot.
it is very very serious issue..

1. you need to add as many air stones and airpumps to your reservoir as possible

2. DO NOT ALLOW ANY DEAD MATTER TO STAY IN YOUR RESERVOIR. dead matter will consume much needed oxygen

3. pull off all dead and slimy roots.. if you need to use scissors.. use scissors

4. add as much H202 as possible and read this..

http://www.hotlib.com/articles/show.php?t=Using_Hydrogen_Peroxide_in_your_Hydropo nics_Gardening_System

5. lower your reservoir temperature... do not let it go about 72 degrees..

over coming these types of issues will MAKE you a GREAT grower!!

iloveyou


I have witnessed succesful harvests...massive yields... from plants that have root rot.. it is possible!!

[Sabrinaleena]

After reading this thread, I'm still going to be saving up for The Producer. Not the Bloom Box like I had originally intended. But my main question is this now... why did you get such root rot with your grow? Was it a fault of the box, or was it just bad luck? I'm very curious because I'm hesitant to plunk down this kind of money for such a unit if it's inherently flawed in its growing techinque through no fault of the grower.

Again, I do hope that your next grow is a great one. This thread has been so helpful for me in making up my mind on what I want to buy, and also when I do get it, I'll be referring back to this thread often :)


Sabrina

[GrowerXLT]

Do the roots of the sick ones smell?
Or more like does the rockwool smell?

Are they all the same strain too?

You could be dealing with plytherwilt. It's common in Rockwool, there is an art to growing with it.

What is your water schedule again...I'm sure you answered somewhere but this great thread is to large to read. I just don't have that much time this month. (not that your post is that long) I just have a new project that is taking all my time right now.

I will stop back tomorrow AM and see if I can offer you any advice. The CalMag Plus was a good thing to add.

Zandor,

Thanks for taking time to reply, as I know you have been a busy man lately. To answer you questions:

1. The rockwool does not smell.
2. All White Widow Clones
3. The watering schedule is at 10:30AM and 4:20PM for five minutes each.

I too think the CalMag was a good thing to add (thanks for the heads up on that) becaue it eliminated one more possible cause of my problem which then allowed me to find the probable problem which is something with the roots. Thanks for everything.

GrowerXLT

[GrowerXLT]

After reading this thread, I'm still going to be saving up for The Producer. Not the Bloom Box like I had originally intended. But my main question is this now... why did you get such root rot with your grow? Was it a fault of the box, or was it just bad luck? I'm very curious because I'm hesitant to plunk down this kind of money for such a unit if it's inherently flawed in its growing techinque through no fault of the grower.

Again, I do hope that your next grow is a great one. This thread has been so helpful for me in making up my mind on what I want to buy, and also when I do get it, I'll be referring back to this thread often :)


Sabrina

Sabrinaleena,

Well at this point I am leaning towards Hardon's theory that the neem was the start of my root problems. If you go back and read this log from the begining it seems likely that this is correct.

I have seen amazing results with one of these boxes over a period of three different grows, so I know that the box is not inherently flawed. Probably not bad luck either. If Hardon is correct, it seems that I followed a bad piece of advice from a Grow FAQ (not on this board) that told me to use neem as a prevetive measure to keep pest away.

I would like to get more peoples opinions on neem to see if they have experienced simmilar problems.

In short, don't let my newbie problems discourage you from getting a truely amazing grow setup. I am very happy with the box, I just made some bad decisions along the way. But all in all, I am learning.

GrowerXLT

[HARDDON]

Only the Good Lord will know for sure exactly what caused your problems, but the fact that your problems are isolated to a limited number of plants all in the same location, should tell you something.

I have reviewed your link re: the use of Neem Oil as a preventative.

I personally do not believe it is an effective way to prevent pest infestations anymore than chanting for rain will produce rain. I think any product that will PREVENT pests, will likely do more harm to the plant or the people who consume the fruits of these plants.

Neem Oil is great and organic and natural and all that, but we're not talking about peppers and squash and hardy food bearing plants. We're talking special herbs here that are far more sensitive and finicky.

Neem Oil is hard on full grown plants as well as young tenderlings and as with anything, you only give these kinds of plants something when they need it.

Timing is everything with these flowers you are growing and there is no benefit really to giving these plants anything they DONT NEED.

This is where most people fuck up their shit. They give their plants unneeded stuff.

Try and avoid this type of mistake at all times.

If you sprayed the neem as directed, and you thoroughly covered the undersides of the leaves, odds are certain you got some stem drainage running down.

Use neem oil ONLY if you have SPIDER MITES. It should be a LAST RESORT item on your list of pest control but certainly NOT as a preventative, in my opinion.

Johnson & Johnson's Baby Shampoo and water is the best in my book. Or, anything else that contain essential fatty acids from soap.

The author of your article also refers to neem oil as being "systemic", meaning if watered into the soil, it will enter the plant and travel that way...yet, immediately advises you drench the shit outta the leaves.

HUH?

Again, neem oil is ok if emergency situation of pest infestation dictates it, but only then.

And with these plants, its that way with everything.

P.S. There are many masters who grow and clone and make all kinds of wonderful fragrant flowers with rock wool. EVERYTIME.

Good luck.

[GrowerXLT]

I would get those roots out and spray them down with PH adjusted water. With the peroxide I would get some 3 Percent, the kind that is used for cuts, Wally Mart. You can use 100ML in a liter of distilled water. I am reaching, hope that someone else will give some more feed back.
I know that after making such a large investment that this is probably not what you expected so I am trying to help as much as I can bro.
Adieu

BlueBear,

I have been looking at this thread http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=67850 and have gotten some good ideas on what to do. It sucks because I am about 30 days left until harvest so I don't know if I should even try to fix the probelm.

The White Snoop recommended this (but this was recommended for someone in veg not bloom):

These are for 1 gal.

24 hour flush (high dose
3%-12 ml
17.5%-2 ml
35%-20 drops 1ml

Low dose(weekly)
3%-11ml
17.5%-2ml
35%-16 drops


Daily topping-
3%-5.5 ml
17.5%-18 drops
35%-9 drops

Decisions....decisions......decisions.......decisi ons......................

GrowerXLT

[Zandor]

It could be just that you have some Pythium wilt in those plants. Its very common with rockwool.

How are they doing today any new roots?

With the absence of odor and plant matter in your res then root rot is not the problem. When you have that its easy to find with your nose. So no odor then no root rot. Pythium wilt is a different story there is no cure for that.

I hope it's not that...it would suck.

[BlueBear]

Hey XLT, can we get an update?
Hope all is well.

[BlueBear]

What was the outcome? Give us the good the bad the ugly. Are you keeping the box?
Adieu

[GrowerXLT]

Day 57 - 07-25-2006 - 44 Days Into Flowering

Pic 1 - Left
Pic 2 - Center
Pic 3 - Right

[GrowerXLT]

Sorry I haven't updated for a couple of weeks, I've been busy with work. Anyway, I am pretty bummed about the outcome of my plants. I am going to have a very low yeild.

I decided not to try and "solve" my problem due to the fact that it was so late into harvest. I didn't cut off the brown slimy roots nor did I use H202. I was afraid I was going to fuck up my plants even more, so I had to make the hard decision to just let it be.

Things I will do different next grow:

1. Keep my water below 72 degrees.
2. Dont use neem oil.
3. Check roots growth more often.
4. Try a different medium than rockwool.

GrowerXLT

[BlueBear]

Sorry that your bumbed. Just keep pushing on. One tip, I talked to the company about the dripper pre set program and they said that the timers are set for a Rock Wool mediam and that being the case other mediams such as pellots or hydro ton are going to take more drip than Rock wool, but at the same time, the air stones will give the aditional air and water to probably off set the differance.
Good luck though, and thank you for the update.

[The_Chronicler]

hey there xlt.. How is your second go at this?

[DonSmokin]

WOW I just want to know wat you get for $3000 did you get the BloomBox &theProducer & the dryer for that? it looks great man

[The_Chronicler]

Hey Donsmokin,,some people have a little spare cash for toys. No need for smart comments.

[DonSmokin]

chronicler i bet iv more money than you punk
get a life man

[Garden Knowm]

YO billions..

please send me a picture or post a picture of this baby filled with plants..

love

[email protected]

[bud breath420]

hemp4billions didnt you make a post trying to sell these?

[jamstigator]

There's definitely a market for those boxes, else they wouldn't sell any. It's quite a bit more trouble to build your own cabinet. I probably saved about a thousand bucks by building my own, but what I saved in money, I probably spent in time and sweat. No one should knock anyone for deciding to spend money rather than time. If you can work and make more money per hour than you'd save by doing the work yourself, well, simple math suggests that's a good plan.

Sorry to see your root rot problem. Doesn't look like a big yield, no, but if you learned what not to do next time, well, that's a pretty big positive! Hopefully your next grow will be what you originally envisioned. ;)

[Garden Knowm]

WHAT happened... the COLLISIUM is GONE?

yikes

[bud breath420]

doesnt look for too bad of a harvest a few nice lookin buds on a few of yours plants.... good lookin grow considering... better luck next time

[GrowerXLT]

I never really posted about the outcome of this grow. In most simple terms, it sucked. The buds were not even smokable, very very harsh. I will post some photos soon that catch everybody up on what happened (its not pretty).

It has been over 5 months since this grow has finished and do to circumstances outside my control I have just barely started my second grow. I will be starting a new thread within the next week to document my second grow in my BC Northern Lights "The Producer".


GrowerXLT

[SaH]

Bump.......

[strycnin]

This is just a thought...depending on the type of ph pen u are using some have to be multiplied by 10...so if u had a 250 reading that actually would be 2500 ppm.It is most certainly a sighn of nutrient burn.I also have a producer and i have had fantastic yields .However i use the advanced nutrients that they provide as it has been tested with the box time and time again.Yields of AK-47....2pounds 1 ounce.Decent considering some people figure u can only get 1 pound out of it.

[Opie Yutts]

strycnin, welcome to the forum.

I agree about the PPM. Something is definitely wrong there. I usually run about 1350, and I too do AK-47. A good PH meter and PPM meter are a must. Also there are 2 (at least) PPM scales. 500 scale for US and 700 for Europe.

strycnin, growerXLT, any chance of some pictures on your next "Producer" grow? Anyone else using the Producer?

[GaGrown]

Roots love oxygen.I see a pump in the pic,but do you have an airstone in the resevoir? I just got in on this thread.I'll keep up with it from here on out.Nice materials! Grow On!

Ga Grown!

[homegrown101]

Hey dude I also just got the producer if ever you want to compare notes drop me a line. My addy is [email protected]:rasta:

[homegrown101]

It has four airstones at the bottom of the resovoir.

:)

[homegrown101]

Okay it seems like your ppm was really really low. I am looking at the guide right now and it ranges from 800 to 1100 for veg and 1000 to 1600 for flowering depending on the week. What I missed was actually checking my ph and ppm in the resovoir. I did not realize that the plants may take more water or more nutrients which throws off the balance. I check mine every second day since I found my week 2 veg mixture at 8.7 (3 days prior it was at 5.6 when I filled the resovoir), gee I wonder why the plants were not growing or showing roots through the 3" rockwool, further I had yellow leaves and wilting plants. All the plants have been trimmed up and I now add misting distilled water to my daily regiment to give the plant co2.

I am hoping mine survive the stress I put them through but I am not certain. What I do know is it is a learning experience and I prefer the adage "kiss" keep it simple stupid. I follow the steps in the guide and I read as much as possible online so I can educate myself on growing.

My lifeline is the bcnorthernlights website, if ever I have questions I can call e-mail or live chat with someone. I am a very novice grower which is why I chose this product. My one and only suggestion to you is to utilize the website for customer service. By that I am not knocking anyones advice here but who better to ask then the manufactor of your product?

I do not have a digital camera but I will pick one up and update you on my progess.

Happy growing everyone....

Homegrown101

[homegrown101]

My bad I misread the posts I only read up to 250ppm when actually it would be 2500ppm.........overkill.........:wtf:

[tanaka71]

I'm completely new to this and looking into purchasing a complete grow cabinet such as the BloomBox or the Deluxe from Supercabinet.com. Anyone have any experiences with the Supercabinet? The supercabinet looks a lot more discrete but not quite as automated as the BC Northern lights products. Thanks for your help and I enjoy reading everyone's threads on this site.

[syde00]

A good start would probably be to make your own thread about the subject and not bump an unrelated thread thats 8 months old :p