Burning flag bad

[minnesota man]

I think we should pass a law that makes it illegal to burn the U.S. flag.

[beachguy in thongs]

Texas v. Johnson, 491 U.S. 397 (1989), was a decision by the Supreme Court of the United States that invalidated prohibitions on desecrating the American flag in force in 48 of the 50 states. Justice William Brennan wrote for a five-justice majority in holding that the defendant's act of flag burning was protected speech under the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.

[Fengzi]

I don't think we should pass a law making it illegal. After all, it is freedom of expression. Then again, I think beating the shit out of flag burners should be protected by the first amendment as well. "Just expressing myself your honor"

[insanity]

While I think flag burning is extremley hypocritical and counter-productive, I also feel that not letting them be hypocrites is even more hypocritical.

[birdgirl73]

Yep, I would have to agree with Fengzi. The right to burn a flag if we want to--which I do not--is part of the wonderful and unique freedoms we enjoy as Americans. My personal belief is that flag-burning is wrong and disrespectful. But I couldn't in good 1st Amendment conscience make it illegal.

[Psycho4Bud]

I'll agree with Fengzi on that also.....when I see one of these people displaying their rights I should also have the right to put my foot in their ass.

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[minnesota man]

Hey. I agree with fengzi too. I made this thread only to distract you guys from the war. Haha. Ugh.

[eg420ne]

How about burning retired flags, i've burned my share of em, should that be illegal too, or are we just talking about evil liberals burning FlAG in protest of an illegal war or a corrupt administration.. :D

[Fengzi]

Hey. I agree with fengzi too. I made this thread only to distract you guys from the war. Haha. Ugh.
Glad we can agree on something minnesota. See, I'm not a total bleeding heart liberal, really, I'm not. Just someone who thinks with his own mind and not his political party's.



How about burning retired flags, i've burned my share of em, should that be illegal too, or are we just talking about evil liberals burning FlAG in protest of an illegal war or a corrupt administration.. :D
Just evil liberals buring the flag. While I find flying the flag in front of the current White House nearly as much a desecration as buring it, the flag represents much more than a corrupt admistration. It represents a great country, what we stand for, and what we should be. It will be here long after ol' Dubya is gone. If you want to burn something, burn an effigy of Bush instead.

[birdgirl73]

I, on the other hand, am a total, card-carrying, bracelet-wearing, money-donating, bleeding-heart liberal.

And you still love me????

[Fengzi]

I, on the other hand, am a total, card-carrying, bracelet-wearing, money-donating, bleeding-heart liberal.

And you still love me????
We all have our own little faults birdgirl, I won't hold it against you ;)

[eg420ne]

Burning Bush:thumbsup:

[beachguy in thongs]

Burning MeXas.

[Fengzi]

Burning Weed.

Something we can ALL agree on :D

[graymatter]

While I find flying the flag in front of the current White House nearly as much a desecration as buring it, the flag represents much more than a corrupt admistration. It represents a great country, what we stand for, and what we should be. It will be here long after ol' Dubya is gone. If you want to burn something, burn an effigy of Bush instead.

I'm having a hard time with a couple points in this thread... I'd love to wave the flag and say that we stand for great things and that we should expect great things, but all I see is polorizing rants and posts from the NPR/PBS and TalkRadio/FoxNews crowds.

I respect--actually, I'll defend to the death--the right to free speech, but I also want to know more about "what the fuck" is eating someone that burns it... Maybe I'll want to smack them when I hear why they're burning it and maybe I won't. I've never bought this "my country right or wrong" crap.

Isn't that how we went from 9/11 to the Axis of Evil speach? Some goober (Bush speaking through Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz) takes a horrible event and decides it's us against the world and goes out and creates enemies.

[graymatter]

I, on the other hand, am a total, card-carrying, bracelet-wearing, money-donating, bleeding-heart liberal.

And you still love me????

I love ya, sista!

[iamapatient]

I'm having a hard time with a couple points in this thread... I'd love to wave the flag and say that we stand for great things and that we should expect great things, but all I see is polorizing rants and posts from the NPR/PBS and TalkRadio/FoxNews crowds.

I respect--actually, I'll defend to the death--the right to free speech, but I also want to know more about "what the fuck" is eating someone that burns it... Maybe I'll want to smack them when I hear why they're burning it and maybe I won't. I've never bought this "my country right or wrong" crap.

Isn't that how we went from 9/11 to the Axis of Evil speach? Some goober (Bush speaking through Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz) takes a horrible event and decides it's us against the world and goes out and creates enemies.
How is polarizing rants new here?

I'm a disabled vet, I served, knowing I could die, to defend our rights as did my father, his father, and his father's father before him and so on. While, at ths time it is considered expression there are many vets, like myself, that are greatly offended by such an action and feel that it should be banned, or, as somebody else said, I should be free to "kick his ass" for it, which I may choose to do anyway, regardless of the law, to be honest.

Funny, the left railed againt Reagan's "Evil Empire" speech too yet he was proven right by history and is considered one of our greatest Presidents. It's one reason Americans wont trust democrats with national security, for the most part, they've been on the wrong side of history for nearly a century. No matter how much the left lies about Iraq, the WOT, President Bush or anything else, history will show the truth. Which is why the left is so bitter and jealous.

[birdgirl73]

I love ya, sista!
I know you do, sweetie, and I feel the same about you. You, too, have a way of getting to the heart of things and cutting through the baloney in the same way Fengzi does.

If I ever run away from home, I may either have to come to the northeast where you are or go be adopted by Fengzi and his wife in California. Actually, with the way this summer is going down here in Texas, some of us down here may actually end up having to flee. We're running out of water here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area because of too much drought and heat! It's scary.

[graymatter]

How is polarizing rants new here?
I'm a disabled vet, I served, knowing I could die, to defend our rights as did my father, his father, and his father's father before him and so on. While, at ths time it is considered expression there are many vets, like myself, that are greatly offended by such an action and feel that it should be banned, or, as somebody else said, I should be free to "kick his ass" for it, which I may choose to do anyway, regardless of the law, to be honest.


Iam, you served to defend our rights, and at a great price, but you're willing to break away from your defence because you have some notion that the LEFT is going to send flag burning, gay, bible bashing, tin foil hat wearing sorts of low-life to suck away all of your core values and make you join Greenpeace...:confused:

If we met face-to-face we'd conclude that we both have some things in common, and if that didn't work out we'd duel with pistols, or lawn darts at 20 paces... Peace!

[graymatter]

I know you do, sweetie, and I feel the same about you. You, too, have a way of getting to the heart of things and cutting through the baloney in the same way Fengzi does.

If I ever run away from home, I may either have to come to the northeast where you are or go be adopted by Fengzi and his wife in California. Actually, with the way this summer is going down here in Texas, some of us down here may actually end up having to flee. We're running out of water here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area because of too much drought and heat! It's scary.

Wow, you're going on two years of that drought? Visit me and my girlfriend, we have way too much water and more in the forecast! Peace, baby!

[birdgirl73]

Which is why the left is so bitter and jealous.
Why is it that if we're the ones who're so bitter and jealous, you're normally the one here who, in nearly all your other messages (doubters please do a search and review), are the angriest, name-callingest, most furious right-wing supporter who ever applied fingers to a keyboard?

I was thrilled to see that your message here--this one I'm responding to right this moment--was the most calm, civil, and respectful thing I believe you've ever written. Even so, it did strike me as a bit of a contradiction to have you claim we're the ones who are bitter.

I, for one, am highly optimistic and hopeful about our political situation as I am about most other things. I find myself feeling rather optimistic about you, too, after having read your most recent post. I firmly believe, IamaPatient, that you could win a lot more converts if you could keep a lid on the venom, and I appreciate your having done it here. Just don't go calling others bitter and jealous quite yet. You haven't yet established enough of a track record of your own sweetness to make that claim.

[iamapatient]

Iam, you served to defend our rights, and at a great price, but you're willing to break away from your defence because you have some notion that the LEFT is going to send flag burning, gay, bible bashing, tin foil hat wearing sorts of low-life to suck away all of your core values and make you join Greenpeace...:confused:

If we met face-to-face we'd conclude that we both have some things in common, and if that didn't work out we'd duel with pistols, or lawn darts at 20 paces... Peace!
No, I'm not the deluded one here. My distaste for the left is because modern liberalism is a disease, communism, socialism and the American democrat party are mere symptoms, as is the Anti-Americanism of europe and other places. Luckily there is a cure, it's called capitalism. As Thomas Sowell said, "democrats are the only reason to vote Republican.

Humans, on a mj web forum with something in common? You don't say? I wonder what it could be... ;)

[Euphoric]

or lawn darts at 20 paces... Peace!

lol

[iamapatient]

lol
Don't laugh, I could hit him with one from that distance. :D

[Fengzi]

I'm having a hard time with a couple points in this thread... I'd love to wave the flag and say that we stand for great things and that we should expect great things, but all I see is polorizing rants and posts from the NPR/PBS and TalkRadio/FoxNews crowds.

I respect--actually, I'll defend to the death--the right to free speech, but I also want to know more about "what the fuck" is eating someone that burns it... Maybe I'll want to smack them when I hear why they're burning it and maybe I won't. I've never bought this "my country right or wrong" crap.

Isn't that how we went from 9/11 to the Axis of Evil speach? Some goober (Bush speaking through Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz) takes a horrible event and decides it's us against the world and goes out and creates enemies.
I know what you mean graymatter, especially about the way Bush has shamelessly used 9/11 to rally the flag waving crown to further his own agenda.

As far as what is eating flag burners is concerned, I live about 45 minutes from Berkely, the holy mecca of liberalism. I have known quite a few flag burner types including a few actual known burners. From what I've seen (although I'm not saying 100% of flag burners fall into this catagory) most do it simply to get a rise of out those who hold the flag sacred. Other's do it to jump on what I call the "cause of the week" bandwagon. You know, flag burning one week, save the rainforest the next week, anti-globalism the next, etc, etc. If someone really, really belives so strongly in something, and sees flag burning as a legitimate expression of it, than I could find it acceptable. Although still in very poor taste. If however, they're just doing it because it's the in thing to do, like wearing patchuli oil and not bathing, then they simply need a good smackin'

[iamapatient]

(Please excuse the editing for format, not content)

...most do it simply to get a rise of out those who hold the flag sacred. Other's do it to jump on what I call the "cause of the week" bandwagon. You know, flag burning one week, save the rainforest the next week, anti-globalism the next, etc, etc.
...If however, they're just doing it because it's the in thing to do, like wearing patchuli oil and not bathing, then they simply need a good smackin'

If someone really, really belives so strongly in something, and sees flag burning as a legitimate expression of it, than I could find it acceptable. Although still in very poor taste.

Most of the hateful anti-Bush/America posts here are for the same reasons you posted above, imho.

Just WHAT, exactly, would constitute a legitimate reason for burning an American flag, in America? Liberal jealousy and bitterness over the Sore/Loserman2000 election? More delusional expectations dashed when the political platform of hate failed in 2002 and again in 2004? What are flag burners trying to "express," anti-war pacifism, socialism?

[graymatter]

Just WHAT, exactly, would constitute a legitimate reason for burning an American flag, in America?

Not to speak for Fengzi, but one reason is the first amendment of the U.S. Constitution. Like you, I served to defend and protect the rights of "individuals" (not necessarilly retarded, either) to do and say things I object to... whether it's burning the flag or dipping a crucifix in a jar of piss and calling it art. It's all protected expression... last I knew, anyway. :thumbsup:

[iamapatient]

Well, as I said, it is, for now, considered expression but what are they expressing with the burning of the American flag? While they may have a right to burn a flag, for now, they also have to take responsibility for the repercussions, like the Dixie Chicks have seen, for example. There is, however, legislation pending that would protect the flag. Calling something art, doesn't make it art. ;)

[graymatter]

Well, as I said, it is, for now, considered expression but what are they expressing with the burning of the American flag? While they may have a right to burn a flag, for now, they also have to take responsibility for the repercussions, like the Dixie Chicks have seen, for example. There is, however, legislation pending that would protect the flag. Calling something art, doesn't make it art. ;)

I'd like to have some of the Dixie Chicks FINANCIAL repurcussions... even if the gates slow in the south, I'd be happy. I've always liked their stuff, long before they pissed off the right; they're edgy and smart...

Anyway, determining what art is or isn't is problematic... I know you know that. :cool:

[iamapatient]

Oh please, there's art and then there's instigation under the guise of art. Don't pretend such things don't exist.

[likemclever]

You couldnâ??t get the country community to piss on the Dixie Chicks if they were on fire. And this community has a VERY long memory. Sure they can say whatever they like but we can also not buy their record if we likeâ?¦and we like. I can not remember the last time I heard a Dixie chickâ??s song on the radio. I hope they invested their money well because itâ??s the last they will be seeing for a while.

[iamapatient]

You couldnâ??t get the country community to piss on the Dixie Chicks if they were on fire. And this community has a VERY long memory. Sure they can say whatever they like but we can also not buy their record if we likeâ?¦and we like. I can not remember the last time I heard a Dixie chickâ??s song on the radio. I hope they invested their money well because itâ??s the last they will be seeing for a while.
How about if they weren't on fire? :D

[graymatter]

And that, my friends, is why it's great to live in a free society... We can rattle each others cages and live to tell about it. :thumbsup:

[iamapatient]

"The justest dispositions possible in ourselves, will not secure us against it (war). It would be necessary that all other nations were just also. Justice indeed, on our part, will save us from those wars which would have been produced by a contrary disposition. But how can we prevent those produced by the wrongs of other nations? By putting ourselves in a condition to punish them. Weakness provokes insult and injury, while a condition to punish often prevents them." -- Thomas Jefferson

[beachguy in thongs]

Why burn flags?
Your dead grandmother has plenty of old clothes.

[Miss Green]

Why on earth would you waste your time on even trying to get a legislation like that in,seriously at the end of the day its only a piece of material and there is people out there right now that are angry with the american government and what they have done or are doing right now - why can't they express themselves after all that is what having freedom is all about is having the free will to speak or in this case express it.:thumbsup: :stoned:

[Psycho4Bud]

§10. Modification of rules and customs by President
Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation


Are there penalties for violating the Flag Code?
No. The Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag.
http://www.ushistory.org/betsy/flagetiq.html

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[likemclever]

No it is not just a piece of material. No more than the constitution and the bill of rights is just a piece of paper.

And yes you should have the right to burn it but when you do you should also be prepared to have your face punched in by those expressing themselves on your face.

I wish just once a gust of divine wind would wrap a burning flag around one of those idiots and disfigure them for life. They can explain to their grand children how they got their scars.

[Psycho4Bud]

Why on earth would you waste your time on even trying to get a legislation like that in,seriously at the end of the day its only a piece of material and there is people out there right now that are angry with the american government and what they have done or are doing right now - why can't they express themselves after all that is what having freedom is all about is having the free will to speak or in this case express it.:thumbsup: :stoned:

Art prompts call for flag-burning law change

KERRY O'BRIEN: The right to freely express an opinion has taken something of a savaging in recent days. Reaction to a Danish newspaper cartoon that mocked the Prophet Mohammed resulted in the burning of Danish embassies in Damascus and Beirut and widespread protests from London to Auckland. The backlash may not have reached Australian shores, but here, the right of a Melbourne artist to express an opinion - in his case, burning an Australian flag and mounting it as an exhibition piece - has landed him in trouble with the law. The flag, which was to have been on display on a billboard outside a Melbourne gallery, lasted just two days before a policeman, claiming to have acted on complaints, removed it. The artist, Azlan McLennan, says he wants it back. The police say they are considering whether to press charges. Legal experts say there is no case. But in Canberra, Federal Government backbencher Bronwyn Bishop has announced her intention to introduce a private members' bill outlawing the burning of the Australian flag. Heather Ewart reports.

CROWD CHANTS: Save the Australian flag!
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1563582.htm

Have a good one!:D

[Psycho4Bud]

I wish just once a gust of divine wind would wrap a burning flag around one of those idiots and disfigure them for life. They can explain to their grand children how they got their scars.

HELL YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a good one!!!:thumbsup:

[graymatter]

Oh please, there's art and then there's instigation under the guise of art. Don't pretend such things don't exist.

Of course they exist!

Some cartoons depict muhammed wearing a bomb shaped turbin. The message is that Islam is a violent religion that advocates killing through suicide bombing. I don't believe that, and I seriously doubt the creators of those cartoons did, but fanatical elements set out to prove the satire true.

What's the answer: Stop offending people?

[Miss Green]

Art prompts call for flag-burning law change

KERRY O'BRIEN: The right to freely express an opinion has taken something of a savaging in recent days. Reaction to a Danish newspaper cartoon that mocked the Prophet Mohammed resulted in the burning of Danish embassies in Damascus and Beirut and widespread protests from London to Auckland. The backlash may not have reached Australian shores, but here, the right of a Melbourne artist to express an opinion - in his case, burning an Australian flag and mounting it as an exhibition piece - has landed him in trouble with the law. The flag, which was to have been on display on a billboard outside a Melbourne gallery, lasted just two days before a policeman, claiming to have acted on complaints, removed it. The artist, Azlan McLennan, says he wants it back. The police say they are considering whether to press charges. Legal experts say there is no case. But in Canberra, Federal Government backbencher Bronwyn Bishop has announced her intention to introduce a private members' bill outlawing the burning of the Australian flag. Heather Ewart reports.

CROWD CHANTS: Save the Australian flag!
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2006/s1563582.htm

Have a good one!:D

Yeah well there is no way the Australian government would want to waste there time but than again who knows what johnny howard would do,If the americans had it illegal than australia would follow just like we did with Iraq - certainly not in my name.:mad:

[Psycho4Bud]

Yeah well there is no way the Australian government would want to waste there time but than again who knows what johnny howard would do,If the americans had it illegal than australia would follow just like we did with Iraq - certainly not in my name.:mad:

Amazing! I didn't see Howards name or the U.S. mentioned in that article but yet you have to point your finger in that direction.:rolleyes:

Oh well........have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Fengzi]

(Please excuse the editing for format, not content)

Most of the hateful anti-Bush/America posts here are for the same reasons you posted above, imho.

Just WHAT, exactly, would constitute a legitimate reason for burning an American flag, in America? Liberal jealousy and bitterness over the Sore/Loserman2000 election? More delusional expectations dashed when the political platform of hate failed in 2002 and again in 2004? What are flag burners trying to "express," anti-war pacifism, socialism?

Honestly iamapatient, I don't know what would consitute a legitimate reason. I personally couldn't concieve of a reason to burn the flag. I don't know, maybe something like the mother of a son who is drafted, and dies in an unjust war, burns the flag in protest and as an expression of her grief. I would have to hear the reason, and try to judge how strongly a person feels about the issue, before making my final decision. In any case, I'm sure 99% of the time I'd come to the conclusion that the burner needs a beating. Certainly being pissed off about losing an election, or the fact that an idiot is in the White House, don't qualify in my book though.

You're right that a lot of what is posted in this forum is done just to get a rise out of those who don't agree with our point of view. I'm no more innocent of doing that from time to time than you or anyone else here is. There is a huge difference between that and burning a flag for the same reason though.

Certain symbols are just sacred and shouldn't be desecrated. Doing so is just incredibly insensitive and in terribly poor taste. Take a Crucifix for example. I am not a Catholic or a Christian and do not beleive in God. I would, however, find the desecration of a Crucifix just as offensive as the burning of a flag. Yes, it is just a piece of wood or plastic just as a flag is just a piece of fabric. And, yes maybe it is a symbol used by those whose views I feel very strongly against. But it is also a symbol that many, many very good people hold dear. It is out of respect for those people that I feel the way I do.

[iamapatient]

Why on earth would you waste your time on even trying to get a legislation like that in,seriously at the end of the day its only a piece of material and there is people out there right now that are angry with the american government and what they have done or are doing right now - why can't they express themselves after all that is what having freedom is all about is having the free will to speak or in this case express it.:thumbsup: :stoned:
You do all of that retarded color/size crap and then have the *nerve* to bitch about wasting time? I wont even read your posts like that anymore, you wasted my time and yours. :rolleyes:

[iamapatient]

Of course they exist!

Some cartoons depict muhammed wearing a bomb shaped turbin. The message is that Islam is a violent religion that advocates killing through suicide bombing. I don't believe that, and I seriously doubt the creators of those cartoons did, but fanatical elements set out to prove the satire true.

What's the answer: Stop offending people?
Yes, they do.

Could the cartoons not be examples of how rediculous it is to assume all muslims are terrorists and that the jihadists are trying to hijack islam?

No the answer is changing the laws to protect the flag then the protesters can find another way to piss on America.





Honestly iamapatient, I don't know what would consitute a legitimate reason. I personally couldn't concieve of a reason to burn the flag. I don't know, maybe something like the mother of a son who is drafted, and dies in an unjust war, burns the flag in protest and as an expression of her grief. I would have to hear the reason, and try to judge how strongly a person feels about the issue, before making my final decision. In any case, I'm sure 99% of the time I'd come to the conclusion that the burner needs a beating. Certainly being pissed off about losing an election, or the fact that an idiot is in the White House, don't qualify in my book though.

You're right that a lot of what is posted in this forum is done just to get a rise out of those who don't agree with our point of view. I'm no more innocent of doing that from time to time than you or anyone else here is. There is a huge difference between that and burning a flag for the same reason though.

Certain symbols are just sacred and shouldn't be desecrated. Doing so is just incredibly insensitive and in terribly poor taste. Take a Crucifix for example. I am not a Catholic or a Christian and do not beleive in God. I would, however, find the desecration of a Crucifix just as offensive as the burning of a flag. Yes, it is just a piece of wood or plastic just as a flag is just a piece of fabric. And, yes maybe it is a symbol used by those whose views I feel very strongly against. But it is also a symbol that many, many very good people hold dear. It is out of respect for those people that I feel the way I do.
I cant think of a legitimate reason. The mothers of fallen soldiers have a right to grieve but burning a flag, symbolizing the destruction of America is not the way to mourn a fallen hero, who wasn't drafted and joined an all volunteer military.

There is no right to not be offended but the flag is another thing.

I'd add other religous objects from all religions too, not just the Cross and flag.




No it is not just a piece of material. No more than the constitution and the bill of rights is just a piece of paper.

And yes you should have the right to burn it but when you do you should also be prepared to have your face punched in by those expressing themselves on your face.

I wish just once a gust of divine wind would wrap a burning flag around one of those idiots and disfigure them for life. They can explain to their grand children how they got their scars.
I agree that it's more than stars and stripes in a particular pattern, that's why I think it should be protected and respected. My father fought in WWII to protect America, not destroy it. When I joined the US Army I swore to defend America not destroy it.

I cant think of a legitimate reason to burn the American flag, in America. Doing so symbolizes the destruction of America and I reject the mere concept.

Like this one?

[likemclever]

That first picture is kinda hard for me to look at (it would be even harder if they were Americans) Itâ??s easier for me to blow them off considering their nationality.

However, that second picture is pretty fâ??n sweet :dance: (too bad it wasnâ??t a plastic flag :D .)

[DonnieDarko]

I don't believe that burning the flag is a protected form of speech. It is, at minimum, an act of vandalism and approaches the incitement of a riot. I'd like to think that both conservatives and liberals could see this the same way.

I'd like to see the punishment for this, in the extreme case, be loss of US citizenship. Let them take up residence in another country.

I believe that all members of the military, past and present, should be respected, and the flag represents their sacrifice and service. I do believe that citizens can disagree with military actions by military commanders and political leaders, and still respect the flag.

[birdgirl73]

For that matter, we can disagree with military actions and political leaders and yet still very much respect the military and the leaders themselves, as well as the flag. Rational, reasonable people have that ability.

[iamapatient]

Unfortunately, I've seen little reasoning, respect nor rationality from the left. There are always exceptions but there's a reason democrats are considered weak on defense, they are. *shrug*

[birdgirl73]

I've seen a great deal of respect and restraint. I see it here when folks deal with you, in fact, IamaPatient. I honestly don't think you're able to see what disrecpectul, irrational behavior you yourself sometimes display when all in the world that's happening is you disagree with people.

That's fine, of course, if all you want to do is vent your spleen. But you're passionate enough about these topics--and completely articulate enough--to keep your cool and actually get some folks thinking if you could stop the name-calling and insults. Until you're able to get those tendencies in check, I'm not sure you can justifiably decry the absence of reasoning, respect or rationality in others.

[iamapatient]

I think you'll find that I give what I get. If mirroring the left here on the site is bad...talk to the left. Don't expect me to put up with the vile and hate that's constantly spewed here without mirroring it back. :D

You're right, I can, I pick my words intentionally. When I'm replying to a respectful post, I generally mirror that, when I'm replying to anti-American/Republican/Bush hate spews I mirror that. Why is it bad for me to insult and name call but OK for the mental midgets to do what's bad for me, other than the hypocrisy as I've pointed out before? :rolleyes:

[Binzhoubum]

How is polarizing rants new here?

I'm a disabled vet, I served, knowing I could die, to defend our rights as did my father, his father, and his father's father before him and so on. While, at ths time it is considered expression there are many vets, like myself, that are greatly offended by such an action and feel that it should be banned, or, as somebody else said, I should be free to "kick his ass" for it, which I may choose to do anyway, regardless of the law, to be honest.

Funny, the left railed againt Reagan's "Evil Empire" speech too yet he was proven right by history and is considered one of our greatest Presidents. It's one reason Americans wont trust democrats with national security, for the most part, they've been on the wrong side of history for nearly a century. No matter how much the left lies about Iraq, the WOT, President Bush or anything else, history will show the truth. Which is why the left is so bitter and jealous.

What in God's sweet name are you talking about? :smokin: History has shown the truth and whenever the Right hears it they PRETEND like the Left is bitter and jealous.:thumbsup:

Then again, the Left is full of shit too.:stoned:

[Binzhoubum]

Democrats don't need to worry about national security as much as Republicans because they don't piss off as many people...only Republicans.

:smokin:

[iamapatient]

What in God's sweet name are you talking about? :smokin: History has shown the truth and whenever the Right hears it they PRETEND like the Left is bitter and jealous.:thumbsup:

Then again, the Left is full of shit too.:stoned:

Democrats don't need to worry about national security as much as Republicans because they don't piss off as many people...only Republicans.
You don't even know what I'm talking about and you, clearly, don't know what you're talking about either. Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

Osama attacked the USA, *repeatedly*, during the clinton administration. Your delusion doesn't hold water. They need to worry more about it but they're liberalism makes them ineffectual and impotent.

[Binzhoubum]

You don't even know what I'm talking about and you, clearly, don't know what you're talking about either. Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

Osama attacked the USA, *repeatedly*, during the clinton administration. Your delusion doesn't hold water. They need to worry more about it but they're liberalism makes them ineffectual and impotent.


LOL...OK...:rolleyes:

Peace :smokin:

[iamapatient]

Bitchslap an anti-American moron with the truth and and they're reduced to that... :D

[Binzhoubum]

Bitchslap an anti-American moron with the truth and and they're reduced to that... :D

:smokin:
1) I am an American
2) I never said anything "anti_American"


PEACE :smokin:

BTW, you make yourelf look like a wee-bit more ignorant than you actually may be when you say things like:


Bitchslap an anti-American moron with the truth and and they're reduced to that... :D

But if the shoe fits....:smokin:

[Binzhoubum]

Belonging to a political party other than the Right doesn't mean you are anti-American....at least not to people who still have their logical thought processes intact. :smokin:

[iamapatient]

1) I am an American
2) I never said anything "anti_American"

1)There are plenty of anti-American's who are citizens. :rolleyes:
2) In this thread...

Americans...the people the world loves to hate...and reluctantly loves.
Wow how pro-American. :rolleyes:

You'e not very good at this, even for a retard.

[Binzhoubum]

1)There are plenty of anti-American's who are citizens. :rolleyes:
2) In this thread...

Wow how pro-American. :rolleyes:

You'e not very good at this, even for a retard.

Did I ever say I was pro-American? :confused:

Well, that's one thing you can always count on a RightWinger to do...

Put words in your mouth or make something up to win an argument!

Way to go, sir! :smokin:

Peace!:smokin:

[Binzhoubum]

1)There are plenty of anti-American's who are citizens. :rolleyes:
2) In this thread...

Wow how pro-American. :rolleyes:

You'e not very good at this, even for a retard.

And do you think you are being a "good American" by ripping on the mentally challenged?

I mean do you know any other words besides "retard" and "moron" when you want to insult someone...or did you JUST graduate third grade?

Peace! :smokin:

[DonnieDarko]

Maybe we need a separate forum where intellectually honest arguments can be made without attacking other members with juvenile responses. It's too bad, because there are some very bright people here.

[Shelbay]

Why on earth would you waste your time on even trying to get a legislation like that in,seriously at the end of the day its only a piece of material and there is people out there right now that are angry with the american government and what they have done or are doing right now - why can't they express themselves after all that is what having freedom is all about is having the free will to speak or in this case express it.:thumbsup: :stoned:
Reading your post' is like opening a box of crayola.

[beachguy in thongs]

My Grandmother died when I was eight. One Sunday, when we were alone in the living room (I was on the floor, she was on one of those rocking-seats, in front of the TV), she told me that Betsy Ross was my grandmother.

I'm gonna flame a bowl, hopefully, I'll see fireworks. And fifty stars. Or thirteen.

[Binzhoubum]

My Grandmother died when I was eight. One Sunday, when we were alone in the living room (I was on the floor, she was on one of those rocking-seats, in front of the TV), she told me that Betsy Ross was my grandmother.

I'm gonna flame a bowl, hopefully, I'll see fireworks. And fifty stars. Or thirteen.

:stoned:

[birdgirl73]

Maybe we need a separate forum where intellectually honest arguments can be made without attacking other members with juvenile responses. It's too bad, because there are some very bright people here.
There are indeed.

An environment in which intellectually honest arguments could be made without juvenile insults would be great. I've come to the conclusion, however, that those who engage in the name-calling, belittling, and juvenile insults use those tactics because they don't have anything ideologically stronger to support their views.

[Miss Green]

No it is not just a piece of material. No more than the constitution and the bill of rights is just a piece of paper.

And yes you should have the right to burn it but when you do you should also be prepared to have your face punched in by those expressing themselves on your face.

I wish just once a gust of divine wind would wrap a burning flag around one of those idiots and disfigure them for life. They can explain to their grand children how they got their scars.

yeah but that would be physical assult and thats not expressing yourself thats physically assulting them. Burning the flag doesn't hurt anyone but punching someone in the face does.:pimp:

[Miss Green]

Reading your post' is like opening a box of crayola.

Yeah sure whatever you reckon.:p :thumbsup:

[Binzhoubum]

There are indeed.

An environment in which intellectually honest arguments could be made without juvenile insults would be great. I've come to the conclusion, however, that those who engage in the name-calling, belittling, and juvenile insults use those tactics because they don't have anything ideologically stronger to support their views.


However, you have to admit...sometimes its fun to be a little juvenile. EVEN if you have strong ideological foundations.

:stoned:

Hehehe...:smokin:

[DonnieDarko]

No it is not just a piece of material. No more than the constitution and the bill of rights is just a piece of paper.



No more than a crucifix is a just piece of wood.

[graymatter]

I think you'll find that I give what I get. If mirroring the left here on the site is bad...talk to the left. Don't expect me to put up with the vile and hate that's constantly spewed here without mirroring it back. :D

You're right, I can, I pick my words intentionally. When I'm replying to a respectful post, I generally mirror that, when I'm replying to anti-American/Republican/Bush hate spews I mirror that. Why is it bad for me to insult and name call but OK for the mental midgets to do what's bad for me, other than the hypocrisy as I've pointed out before? :rolleyes:

I bet you got beat up a lot in school... Seriously, dude, get some help!

[graymatter]

Yeah sure whatever you reckon.:p :thumbsup:

Exactly! And I look forward to the next arrangement of colors....:thumbsup:

[likemclever]

yeah but that would be physical assult and thats not expressing yourself thats physically them. Burning the flag doesn't hurt anyone but punching someone in the face does.:pimp:


Of course itâ??s assault. Itâ??s emotional assault.

If I were handing out pictures of your mother giving away free blow jobs with the purchase of an oil change at Big Benâ??s truck stop. Would that be protected free speech or would you kick my ass.

The sentiment is the same.

People who burn flags are cowards hiding behind the law. They do it because they know it causes people they donâ??t like deep emotional pain/stressâ?¦. It is assault.


No more than a crucifix is a just piece of wood.

Dman right :thumbsup:

[Breukelen advocaat]

Whoever did this better hope that the police catch them before my neighbors do!

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/429275p-361819c.html

7 Stars & Stripes torched in B'klyn

BY ALISON FOX and ROBERT F. MOORE
DAILY NEWS WRITERS

Coldhearted vandalsv torched seven American flags flying outside homes in Brooklyn - including the Stars and Stripes hung by the mother of a city firefighter after his death on 9/11.

"How could anyone do this?" asked Regina Coyle, the 55-year-old mother of slain Firefighter James Coyle, who died at the World Trade Center.

Regina Coyle - whose daughter is an NYPD cop - found the burned flag early yesterday outside her Marine Park home on the block named in honor of her heroic son.

She collected the flag's barely recognizable remnants and placed them inside a plastic bag. She then vowed to fly another flag outside her home on Avenue R near E. 36th St.

"You have to stand up for your neighborhood," she said. "You have to stand up for your country." "America has so much to offer."

Coyle's home was one of seven in the blue-collar neighborhood vandalized by the flag burners, who began torching the banners about 7 p.m. Wednesday.
None of the fires caused serious damage to homes in the neighborhood. Police said area teens were likely responsible for the vandalism, which was being investigated as a criminal mischief case.

Andre Mahe, 37, said he smelled smoke and heard his dog barking about 4a.m. outside his E. 38th St. home. But by the time he got outside and doused the flames with a garden hose, the flag was destroyed and the vandals were gone.

"If I had caught him, I would have beaten the living crap out of him," Mahe said. "We've had the flag out there for three years. If they're annoyed with the government, don't go around burning flags."

Three of the flags were burned on the 1700 block of E. 38th St. Two more were torched on the 1800 block of E. 36th St. and another two, including Coyle's, were ignited on Avenue R.

The other flag burned on Coyle's block belonged to Firefighter Brian Geissler.

Geissler joined the FDNY after the terror attacks and is assigned to Manhattan's Ladder 3 in Union Square - the same firehouse where James Coyle worked. Coyle had been on the job for only 10 months when he was killed.

A block away from Geissler's home, Michael Campbell, 39, an Army veteran, replaced his burned flag and saluted the new banner.

[likemclever]

I hope the neighbors catch them first....

[graymatter]

Maybe we need a separate forum where intellectually honest arguments can be made without attacking other members with juvenile responses. It's too bad, because there are some very bright people here.


Hey, Donnie... How 'bout our Sox?!? Big Papi rules!

Anyway, you're a cool, rational voice and I respect you. The problem I see isn't so much a problem so long as people show respect for differences as a guiding principle when they/I/we post.... Peace, man!

[baisez le monde.]

I burn flags before breakfast.

[graymatter]

Before or after you burn the toast and set the house on fire and are convicted of arson as a result of a pre-dawn raid involving methamphetamine?

Really, just curious...

[baisez le monde.]

Before or after you burn the toast and set the house on fire and are convicted of arson as a result of a pre-dawn raid involving methamphetamine?

Really, just curious...

before?aha.. jeeez man... chill

[graymatter]

before?aha.. jeeez man... chill

I'm chilled... lol

[baisez le monde.]

good, good.

[likemclever]

I burn flags before breakfast.

:rolleyes:

you should come to my house for lunch...I've been told I make a pretty mean fistwich.

[baisez le monde.]

:rolleyes:

you should come to my house for lunch...I've been told I make a pretty mean fistwich.


you gonna punch a lady, eh?

[graymatter]

you gonna punch a lady, eh?

I think violence should be banned on these threads... actually, violence isn't possible in cyberspace, but I hear the Pentagon is working on a prototype. Peace, all, don't stay up fighting all night... ;)

[likemclever]

Night night graymatter sweet dreams.




you gonna punch a lady, eh?


First youâ??ll need to show me a lady.

Iâ??m a girl too ;)

[baisez le monde.]

First youâ??ll need to show me a lady.

Iâ??m a girl too ;)
hahhaa
well..uhh haha

im just a little embarassed now!

[likemclever]

hahhaa
well..uhh haha

im just a little embarassed now!

..:)..

[baisez le monde.]

..:)..

ergg you win...
FOR NOW muahha
:D

[minnesota man]

EVERYONE STOP FIGHTING. THIS IS MY THREAD AND I MADE IT AS A JOKE TO DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM TALKING ABOUT THE WAR!

SERIOUSLY, QUIT POSTING IN THIS THREAD!

[likemclever]

Whose fightingâ?¦??? I think maybe your taking our bickering too serious. Itâ??s not possible to talk about politics or religion without things getting a little hairy at times.

You canâ??t just start a thread on a controversial topic and then tell people to stop posting in it. I suppose you canâ?¦.but itâ??s a shame it was a good thread.

Thatâ??s all

[baisez le monde.]

i like a little friendly bickering now and then anyways

[minnesota man]

OK. I love you 2 girls.

[baisez le monde.]

i know you do.

[DonnieDarko]

Hey, Donnie... How 'bout our Sox?!? Big Papi rules!

Anyway, you're a cool, rational voice and I respect you. The problem I see isn't so much a problem so long as people show respect for differences as a guiding principle when they/I/we post.... Peace, man!

I enjoy discussing the difficult issues that affect the world, and I ESPECIALLY like to hear a good opposing argument. What I don't like about politics forums, in general, is that the arguments end up parrotting the talking points of the political extremists on cable news TV.

I'd just like to drop the labels and generalizations, and associated name-calling, and just discuss issues using our own thoughts, ideas and experiences. It should be passionate, but not personal. In the end, someone might even change their mind.

I find it interesting that lots of people here are defending a particular political party, when both parties have failed US .... and make/enforce laws that continue to put marijuana users in the unemployment line or in jail. While I have to pass a drug test if I wanna work at Walmart, Patrick Kennedy drives the streets of DC with his latest drug addiction ... End of Rant ...

And How bout Jonathan Papalbon ??? Papi HAD to hit the walkoff because everybody knew that Papalbon was done for the day.

[beachguy in thongs]

Whoever did this better hope that the police catch them before my neighbors do!

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/429275p-361819c.html

7 Stars & Stripes torched in B'klyn

BY ALISON FOX and ROBERT F. MOORE
DAILY NEWS WRITERS

Coldhearted vandalsv torched seven American flags flying outside homes in Brooklyn - including the Stars and Stripes hung by the mother of a city firefighter after his death on 9/11.

"How could anyone do this?" asked Regina Coyle, the 55-year-old mother of slain Firefighter James Coyle, who died at the World Trade Center.

Regina Coyle - whose daughter is an NYPD cop - found the burned flag early yesterday outside her Marine Park home on the block named in honor of her heroic son.

She collected the flag's barely recognizable remnants and placed them inside a plastic bag. She then vowed to fly another flag outside her home on Avenue R near E. 36th St.

"You have to stand up for your neighborhood," she said. "You have to stand up for your country." "America has so much to offer."

Coyle's home was one of seven in the blue-collar neighborhood vandalized by the flag burners, who began torching the banners about 7 p.m. Wednesday.
None of the fires caused serious damage to homes in the neighborhood. Police said area teens were likely responsible for the vandalism, which was being investigated as a criminal mischief case.

Andre Mahe, 37, said he smelled smoke and heard his dog barking about 4a.m. outside his E. 38th St. home. But by the time he got outside and doused the flames with a garden hose, the flag was destroyed and the vandals were gone.

"If I had caught him, I would have beaten the living crap out of him," Mahe said. "We've had the flag out there for three years. If they're annoyed with the government, don't go around burning flags."

Three of the flags were burned on the 1700 block of E. 38th St. Two more were torched on the 1800 block of E. 36th St. and another two, including Coyle's, were ignited on Avenue R.

The other flag burned on Coyle's block belonged to Firefighter Brian Geissler.

Geissler joined the FDNY after the terror attacks and is assigned to Manhattan's Ladder 3 in Union Square - the same firehouse where James Coyle worked. Coyle had been on the job for only 10 months when he was killed.

A block away from Geissler's home, Michael Campbell, 39, an Army veteran, replaced his burned flag and saluted the new banner.


Thanks for the link. It finally helped me realize what the problem was. I kept hearing another link, that I had open in another tab, and the old man was just getting on my nerves. It was that Alex Jones' Terror Video, or something.

[beachguy in thongs]

"If I had caught him, I would have beaten the living crap out of him," Mahe said...

That's the most sexist statement that I've heard in a while.

[DonnieDarko]

Iâ??m a girl too ;)

Hi Likem,

You are DEFINITELY a girl !!!

It makes me chuckle at how many people assume you are a dude. Maybe it's the avitar or the username. Or it could be that you don't take no shit from people :).

[graymatter]

EVERYONE STOP FIGHTING. THIS IS MY THREAD AND I MADE IT AS A JOKE TO DISTRACT PEOPLE FROM TALKING ABOUT THE WAR!

SERIOUSLY, QUIT POSTING IN THIS THREAD!

Didn't you get the memo? the ALL CAPS post constitutes a continution of the thread. :thumbsup:

[Breukelen advocaat]

"If I had caught him, I would have beaten the living crap out of him," Mahe said.

That's the most sexist statement that I've heard in a while.

Well, I agree that he is probably assuming that a male, or males, did it, but gender is not necessarily defined, in the English language, by the use of the word "him", "he", etc. The victim should have said "the person", but in this circumstance was just too angry to make the differentiation. Had Mahe said, "If I had caught the guy", without knowing the gender of the vandal(s), it would have been a sexist remark.

[likemclever]

Hi Likem,

You are DEFINITELY a girl !!!

It makes me chuckle at how many people assume you are a dude. Maybe it's the avitar or the username. Or it could be that you don't take no shit from people :).

Ha ha thanks Donnie. It makes me chuckle too. My user name is pretty unisex and my avatar usually is too. I think itâ??s my forward/ aggressive manner that lead people to assume Iâ??m a guy. Those traits are normally associated with men. Iâ??ve always been like this and people either love me or hate me for it (especially men.) You think it throws people for a loop on line you should see their reaction in person.

There are a couple other chicks on here like that. â??thebathroomâ?� (I hope Iâ??m thinking of the right person) is one off the top of my head that is kinda hard to pin down.