The Draft

[Pennsterdam]

Now what are we all going to do when America attacks Iran and then they have a draft?? You don't expect me to go fight in the name of global empire!

[pisshead]

many of those drafted will work for the homeland security dictatorship running checkpoints, monitoring cameras. the new economy is surveillance, police state and prisons...because turning into soviet russia or nazi germany will keep us safe from the freedom hating evil muslims who hate freedom.

what on earth is wrong with you? don't you understand that destroying what our country is and getting rid of freedom will actually protect and give us more freedom?

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL...all the attack would be about is taking out their nuclear capabilities. But of course we ARE the evil empire looking to snatch up the worlds oil...right?:rolleyes:

[Pennsterdam]

LOL...all the attack would be about is taking out their nuclear capabilities. But of course we ARE the evil empire looking to snatch up the worlds oil...right?:rolleyes:But dude, they never threatened the US! Maybe Israel, but Israel is an entirely different country and those people need to sort out their childish differences. It's Zionism that is the problem! This is also the same crap Bush pulled when he wanted to invade Iraq! He lied to us then..why should we believe him now? I never really believed anything Bush said anyway. If there is a draft, there will be so many riots and protests, most of them on college campuses.

[Psycho4Bud]

It's Zionism that is the problem! .

Zi·on·ism (zī'ə-nĭz'əm)
n.
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.


O.K. Guess we could allow the Arab world to push them into the sea. Hell, lets all do a goose step at the same time!

[iamapatient]

How many times do we have to bitchslap these threads by introducing reality. The truth is the draft bills (there were 2) were sponsored and co-sponsored by democraps to try and blame Bush for a non-existant and unwanted draft. Have you heard of a canard? That's what these draft threads are. Propagandized much? :rolleyes:

[Breukelen advocaat]

Restoring the Draft: The Universal National Service Act of 2006


by Michel Chossudovsky

May 30, 2006
GlobalResearch.ca

Congressman Charles Rangel, a Democrat (NY), introduced on 14 February 2006 a bill in the US Congress which requires:

"all persons in the United States, including women, between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform a [two year] period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes."

The bill applies to both US citizens and non-citizens, to men and women. There does not appear to be a provision which would exempt women who are pregnant and/or caring for infants/children in a young age.

While there was some media coverage of Rangel's initiative prior to the formal introduction of the bill, the matter has not been mentioned by the US media since it was introduced in February. There has been a deafening silence: since February 2006, not a single article or editorial has appeared in print on the Universal National Service Act of 2006.

Neither has it been the object of public debate. The bill has been referred to the House Armed Services Committee and the Subcommittee on Military Personnel. Ironically, in previous discussion leading up the bill, Rangel's initiative to restore the draft was described as "an anti-war tactic".

"Rangel opposes war with Iraq and seeks to make the point that many soldiers are volunteers from low-income and minority families. Political leaders, his reasoning goes, would think twice about sending into war the sons and daughters of a more complete cross-section of America. But whether or not one agrees with Rangel's rationale, many Americans would agree that universal service can be a great leveler and a unifying force in society."

Despite Rangel's antiwar resolve, the bill supports Washington's stated objective to extend the war into new frontiers and to ultmately send an entire generation of young Americans to fight an illegal, and unjust war. It is worth noting in this regard that the Neoconservative Project for a New American Century calls for increasing active duty strength from 1.4 to 1.6 million.

The bill also supports Big Brother. Those who are not sent overseas to the war theater would, according to the clauses of the bill, be inducted into the civilian homeland defense corps and other civilian duties, including the Citizens Corps, the "Neighborhood Watch Teams" and the "Volunteer Police Service" established in partnership with local law enforcement. (see http://www.citizencorps.gov/pdf/council.pdf )

While there is at present significant opposition to the bill on both sides of the House, the US military is overextended and lacks the manpower to carry out its global war agenda. This shortage of military personnel is blatantly obvious in Iraq, where the occupation forces are meeting fierce resistance.

The situation regarding the draft could also change if the war were to be extended into Iran. In which case, the substance of this bill could indeed be adopted to meet the manpower requirements of the US military.


History of the Bill

This is the second time Rep. Charles Rangel introduces his controversial bill.

In January 2003, HR 163 was submitted in the House.

It was voted upon and defeated in the House in October 2003, on the grounds that it had not been sent for committee hearings. However, it was suggested at the time that the Republican-controlled House wanted to defeat the bill, to squash rumors that Bush would reintroduce the draft if reelected.

"In spite of adamant denial of draft rumors, Internet and campus campaigners had trumpeted the bill as evidence of a "secret plan" to reinstate the draft in case President Bush is re-elected."
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060530&articleId=2535

[Pennsterdam]

Zi·on·ism (zī'ə-nĭz'əm)
n.
A Jewish movement that arose in the late 19th century in response to growing anti-Semitism and sought to reestablish a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Modern Zionism is concerned with the support and development of the state of Israel.


O.K. Guess we could allow the Arab world to push them into the sea. Hell, lets all do a goose step at the same time!But the Jews were scattered long ago. The true meaning of Israel is spiritual. The establishment of modern Israel is run by Illuminati who want to bring together a biblical-like war described in the Book of Revelation. They know the land is the land of the Muslims, so the Elite rulers want to create conflict by bringing the Jews there. This has been going on for years. It gets you nowhere. This is called Zionism and Bush adheres to it deeply.

I chastise the Arabs for not seeing the true meaning of Islam yet. Because they take their religion again to an extreme, they will not tolerate the 'people of the Book (Jews)'. But the ones who want to return to Israel take Torah and the prophets way too seriously to an extreme, so they are both held in contempt. Blood could probably have not been spilled if the Illuminati had not created a State for them taking away Palestinian land. If both religions can learn to embrace a more spiritual non dogmatic path, than the Jews and Muslims will truly be called Sons of Abraham.

[iamapatient]

Oh, my bad. I didn't realize this was an anti-semitic, jew/Bush bashing thread. The illuminati conspiracy theory that was thrown in provided a nice touch for illusion. The tin-foil hat crowd never fail to entertain but I could do without the typical "blame the jews for everything" deal that liberals tend to do. :rolleyes:

Again, there will be no draft...

Hope that helps ;)

[Miss Green]

Yeah it will proberly get to that point where bush will have to draft people if he starts a war with Iran god how many soilders can the yanks have?.Its already hard for them to recruit new members to fight in Iraq so I don't know how he is going to achieve this.:confused: :mad:

[graymatter]

This is the second time Rep. Charles Rangel introduces his controversial bill.


Rangel also received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart in Korea... just a footnote to those voices that say Democrats are lame... :thumbsup:

[Torog]

Howdy B.A.,

Thanx to modern liberalism,there's alot of young folks who no longer have any sense of duty to their country..each day,they wake and ask "What will my country do for me today ? "..instead of askin "What can I do for my country today ? ".

Thanx to modern liberalism,many younguns have no work ethics and little idea of what to do with their lives. Serving their country for 2 years,might just wake em up out of the debaucherous trance that they've been lulled into,by the Left.

I like Israel's model of military service,requiring younguns to serve 2 years in the military,given the size of their population and country,such service is a good idea for survival,considering the number of foes that Israel faces,including the fifth column of anti-semetic liberals in this country.

Don't ya think that it would be a good time now,to start toughening up the younguns again,in this country ?

Of course,Rangle knew the effect of such legislation,would be a fear factor,to drive younguns to the democrappers,but I would like to ask him..if he's truly interested in what's best for this country..or is it all just for the votes ?

Have a good one ...

[pisshead]

so a democrat who introduces this legislation every year, is driving 'younguns' to vote for democrats when they're against the legislation?

republicans are democrats. i'm going to find it funny when torog starts telling me to vote for hillary.

congratulations, torog, you're an anti-american commie. why do you hate freedom so much? you're anti-family and you worship big government, and you call yourself conservative?

why do you think the federal government can do things better than i can? why don't you read the federalist or anti-federalist papers and read about your history. what the fuck is wrong with you?

[Pennsterdam]

US Corporate Party
-- Sub party A --> Republicans
-- Sub party B --> Democrats

[Breukelen advocaat]

Howdy B.A., Thanx to modern liberalism,there's alot of young folks who no longer have any sense of duty to their country..each day,they wake and ask "What will my country do for me today ? "..instead of askin "What can I do for my country today ? ".
Thanx to modern liberalism,many younguns have no work ethics and little idea of what to do with their lives. Serving their country for 2 years,might just wake em up out of the debaucherous trance that they've been lulled into,by the Left.
I like Israel's model of military service,requiring younguns to serve 2 years in the military,given the size of their population and country,such service is a good idea for survival,considering the number of foes that Israel faces,including the fifth column of anti-semetic liberals in this country.
Don't ya think that it would be a good time now,to start toughening up the younguns again,in this country ?
Of course,Rangle knew the effect of such legislation,would be a fear factor,to drive younguns to the democrappers,but I would like to ask him..if he's truly interested in what's best for this country..or is it all just for the votes ?
Have a good one ...
Yo Torog

Rangal thinks that there is a inappropriate proportion of working class people in the military, and resents the "chicken hawks" who never served in wars but start and support them.

I do not agree 100% with the JFK's statement, "Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country." It sounds good, and I'm as patriotic as I can be, but it really doesn't ring true because people make the country. The country is here to serve people, not the other way around. Of course, the beneficiaries of a good society should be good citizens, pay taxes, etc.

I believe in a smaller, highly paid, military made up of professionals. The general population should not be drafted or involved in combat operations unless we're in a large war and have no choice.

I think that anybody that chooses to live in Israel is crazy. I donâ??t hate the country, but would never go there - even if I won a free vacation. My present situation in New York City isn't exactly a panacea, either, since I work in a known terrorist-threat area.

[Bong30]

Howdy B.A.,

Thanx to modern liberalism,there's alot of young folks who no longer have any sense of duty to their country..each day,they wake and ask "What will my country do for me today ? "..instead of askin "What can I do for my country today ? ". AMEN!!!!!

Thanx to modern liberalism,many younguns have no work ethics and little idea of what to do with their lives. Serving their country for 2 years,might just wake em up out of the debaucherous trance that they've been lulled into,by the Left.

I like Israel's model of military service,requiring younguns to serve 2 years in the military,given the size of their population and country,such service is a good idea for survival,considering the number of foes that Israel faces,including the fifth column of anti-semetic liberals in this country.

Don't ya think that it would be a good time now,to start toughening up the younguns again,in this country ?

Of course,Rangle knew the effect of such legislation,would be a fear factor,to drive younguns to the democrappers,but I would like to ask him..if he's truly interested in what's best for this country..or is it all just for the votes ?

Have a good one ...

I agree 100% Torog.....



pisshead so a democrat who introduces this legislation every year, is driving 'younguns' to vote for democrats when they're against the legislation?

republicans are democrats. i'm going to find it funny when torog starts telling me to vote for hillary. (never)

congratulations, torog, you're an anti-american commie. why do you hate freedom so much? you're anti-family and you worship big government, and you call yourself conservative? No i think he is just sick of wimpy, american hating, lulled to sleep, punk bitches
not trying to put words in your mouth Torog

why do you think the federal government can do things better than i can?
You need to read my post on what a reagan conserative is.
why don't you read the federalist or anti-federalist papers and read about your history.( i think i will) what the fuck is wrong with you?

If Torog is an american hating Commie? What are you Piss?

I know i know.....

What the fuck is wrong with you prison planet engrossed, american hating, commie?

ahhh I feel better now...........

BTW.... if the law was passed i would serve my country at 36 years of age. What about you guys..............

ohh yeah i remember..........penn said he was too big of a pussy.

[birdgirl73]

I agree 100% Torog.....

If Torog is an american hating Commie? What are you Piss?

I know i know.....

What the fuck is wrong with you prison planet engrossed, american hating, commie?

ahhh I feel better now...........

BTW.... if the law was passed i would serve my country at 36 years of age. What about you guys..............

ohh yeah i remember..........penn said he was too big of a pussy.
Why is it that to make yourself feel better and to get your point across, you ahave to be so rude and call other people names? I think you tread on thin ice in a lotta ways--brainwise, heartwise, literacywise--but I find your scarcity of manners and respect the most hard to take, somehow.

I don't agree lots of people's politics, but I won't use name-calling or denigrate something basic like the word Republican in order to do that. I'll actually use my mind.

Evenin', Torog. Now I know you feel strongly about our country and its values and patriotism and everything. But one of the things that occurred to me as I read your statements about it being liberalism that's ruined our patriotic-minded youth is that I've always found, as a citizen, as a parent, as a former teacher, as a reporter, is that it tends to be bad parents who ruin our youth and don't instill proper values in them. They're the folks who instill values in young people. Not liberal society as a whole.

[Euphoric]

why fight for a government that makes us criminals? like i would be more willing to defend a country that didnt force drug prohibition on me, u know what im saying :stoned:

http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=99
http://www.objector.org/conscription/economic-conscription.html

u should watch 1984

[Bong30]

Why is it that to make yourself feel better and to get your point across, you ahave to be so rude and call other people names? I think you tread on thin ice in a lotta ways--brainwise, heartwise, literacywise--but I find your scarcity of manners and respect the most hard to take, somehow.

you are way better than me........ you are right.


i am the only one that calls names............you are right again




good job Bitch......................

[Marlboroman]

you are way better than me........ you are right.


i am the only one that calls names............you are right again




good job Bitch......................

Great job proveing her point for her.

[Marlboroman]

I agree 100% Torog.....




If Torog is an american hating Commie? What are you Piss?

I know i know.....

What the fuck is wrong with you prison planet engrossed, american hating, commie?

ahhh I feel better now...........

BTW.... if the law was passed i would serve my country at 36 years of age. What about you guys..............

ohh yeah i remember..........penn said he was too big of a pussy.

I've already served 4 years, and I've kicked around the idea of serving again(32 years old)

What holds me back is the lack of real information shared with the public. So our government tells us that Iran is a threat, that Iraq was a threat and that we had to invade Afganistan. Thats just it, all they did was tell us, they didnt back it up with any real information, matter of fact I think its proven that they lied in order to invade Iraq.

Before I or any of my children are to go to war, our GOV will have to show proof. To simply tell me is not enough.

[Torog]

Why is it that to make yourself feel better and to get your point across, you ahave to be so rude and call other people names? I think you tread on thin ice in a lotta ways--brainwise, heartwise, literacywise--but I find your scarcity of manners and respect the most hard to take, somehow.

I don't agree lots of people's politics, but I won't use name-calling or denigrate something basic like the word Republican in order to do that. I'll actually use my mind.

Evenin', Torog. Now I know you feel strongly about our country and its values and patriotism and everything. But one of the things that occurred to me as I read your statements about it being liberalism that's ruined our patriotic-minded youth is that I've always found, as a citizen, as a parent, as a former teacher, as a reporter, is that it tends to be bad parents who ruin our youth and don't instill proper values in them. They're the folks who instill values in young people. Not liberal society as a whole.

Howdy birdgirl,

I hear ya and I understand what yer sayin,yer right that most values are being instilled by the parents..the problem arises,when those parents are modern liberals in rebellion against traditional values,themselves. They have no desire to pass on what they consider to be out-dated values,they allow their children to run their lives,instead of the other way around,they treat them like little adults and introduce them to making adult decisions-when all the children should be doing..is just being children.

Now then,don't under-estimate,the impact that liberal society and media,have on our children,it's much more than you allude to..and is the reason why many real parents,restrict to some degree,the ingestion of liberal media and such.

Have a good one !

[birdgirl73]

Mornin', Torog!

I see what you're saying better now! Seriously, I do. And believe it or not, I enjoy talking with folks I disagree with about lots of stuff. You generally voice your opinions kindly and with humor, and I like that!

I'm sad to say I can't stay online very long this morning because I have to work. Work. Can you imagine? Actually, now that I reflect on that a moment, I realize that it's a big-time blessing to be able to do that. But I'll talk to you again, I'm sure. You have yourself a good Wednesday!
Bird

[Shelbay]

Why is it that to make yourself feel better and to get your point across, you ahave to be so rude and call other people names? I think you tread on thin ice in a lotta ways--brainwise, heartwise, literacywise--but I find your scarcity of manners and respect the most hard to take, somehow.

I don't agree lots of people's politics, but I won't use name-calling or denigrate something basic like the word Republican in order to do that. I'll actually use my mind.

Evenin', Torog. Now I know you feel strongly about our country and its values and patriotism and everything. But one of the things that occurred to me as I read your statements about it being liberalism that's ruined our patriotic-minded youth is that I've always found, as a citizen, as a parent, as a former teacher, as a reporter, is that it tends to be bad parents who ruin our youth and don't instill proper values in them. They're the folks who instill values in young people. Not liberal society as a whole.
While your calling Bong on the carpet maybe you should also do that to pisshead..seeing as Bong was just stating his opinion on that post..why would you attack his "literacy"..and Bong I agre with you. Bird..its not nice to be arrogant toward others just because you have the skill of putting words together better.

[birdgirl73]

I generally call folks on it when I see the name-calling happen over and over again, but I don't see it every time it happens, so I couldn't call Pisshead on something that I hadn't seen. I'm not a fast enough reader to read every post on here.

Actually, that wasn't an attack on Bong's literacy. It was my opinion stated in "I language." There's a difference, and not even a particularly subtle one. But it's not an attack, and if he took it that way, I'd trust him either to tell me so or ask about it to clear things up. Bong, I hope you're not feeling attacked!

Here's my deal. I've got a real up-close-and-personal look right now with a sister who's got a terminal disease at how truly short life is. It's frighteningly so. And I honestly believe that we've got to try our best to try and treat others with respect and decency. That includes not name-calling, not flaming them with profanity, not whirling around on them and suddenly coming out at them defensively and angrily but instead checking out our own perceptions before we assume they're out to get us. For me, it involves standing up for myself in conversations I'm involved in or have an intellectual stake in by calling folks on the bad-mannered stuff.

[iamapatient]

Rangel also received the Bronze Star and Purple Heart in Korea... just a footnote to those voices that say Democrats are lame... :thumbsup:
Are you saying it's OK for Rangel/democrats to start draft legislation then try to blame Bush/Republicans for a non-existant draft that the administration oppose because Rangel was in Korea or are you just trying to change the subject of the draft bill being started by the left? :rolleyes:

[graymatter]

Are you saying it's OK for Rangel/democrats to start draft legislation then try to blame Bush/Republicans for a non-existant draft that the administration oppose because Rangel was in Korea or are you just trying to change the subject of the draft bill being started by the left? :rolleyes:

I opposed the original end to the draft. It was short sighted and politically motivated. The draft is a "Check and Balance". When you get your "Greetings from the president letter" you can run, protest, serve, rebel or whatever! DO SOMETHING is my point... christ, Join the fucking Peace Corps...

I just happen to applaud and support Rangel for having the balls to call out the matter. :thumbsup:

[graymatter]

I've always found, as a citizen, as a parent, as a former teacher, as a reporter, is that it tends to be bad parents who ruin our youth and don't instill proper values in them. They're the folks who instill values in young people. Not liberal society as a whole.


Actually, my mission from the "National Liberal Society" is to spread vermin filled Liberalism through my rhetorical wand and turn everyone into whoremongering, war protesting, freedom haters. Once that's accomplished I will dispatch my pro-choice minions to eat Pat Robertson... :cool:

[iamapatient]

I opposed the original end to the draft. It was short sighted and politically motivated. The draft is a "Check and Balance". When you get your "Greetings from the president letter" you can run, protest, serve, rebel or whatever! DO SOMETHING is my point... christ, Join the fucking Peace Corps...

I just happen to applaud and support Rangel for having the balls to call out the matter. :thumbsup:
You oppose the freedom to choose to serve or not and support the liberal facist draft bills and have the nerve to bash President Bush? Oh my... Just what kind of freedom ARE you for? Is it just the freedom to bitch and moan while smoking a joint or wouldn't it be better to support more individual rights instead of supporting leftist oppression? :rolleyes:

[graymatter]

And if you think the U.S. Government communicates respect for its veterans effectively I just got my letter from the V.A. acknowledging their "mishap" with data security. :o They basically say, "dude, we had no other way of contacing you and millions of others except through the Internal Revenue Service..."

[graymatter]

You oppose the freedom to choose to serve or not and support the liberal facist draft bills and have the nerve to bash President Bush? Oh my... Just what kind of freedom ARE you for? Is it just the freedom to bitch and moan while smoking a joint or wouldn't it be better to support more individual rights instead of supporting leftist oppression? :rolleyes:

OK, I'm only going to respond to you one more time. You ignored my original question: Define what Liberal Slavery is? I'm really interested in what that looks like...

[birdgirl73]

Actually, my mission from the "National Liberal Society" is to spread vermin filled Liberalism through my rhetorical wand and turn everyone into whoremongering, war protesting, freedom haters. Once that's accomplished I will dispatch my pro-choice minions to eat Pat Robertson... :cool:
Oooh, you're wicked, GrayMatter. I like that.

I have an unkind Pat Robertson fantasy. And it's my mission to share it. In it, Pat is piloting the next jet owned by his organzation to go down, killing the pilot and his co-passenger, who is Jerry Falwell. The fantasy jet would go down this season in the worst hurricane ever on record, something far out in the Atlantic that won't hurt anybody else. Brother Pat will be cemeted forever as a wise and brilliant weather prophet. His estate and the fortunes of CBN will go to the pro-choice and pro-national-health care movements. Brother Jerry's fortunes will go to gay-lesbian-friendly and environmental causes, particularly global warming.

Legions of thinking, caring people throughout the world will rejoice.

[iamapatient]

And if you think the U.S. Government communicates respect for its veterans effectively I just got my letter from the V.A. acknowledging their "mishap" with data security. :o They basically say, "dude, we had no other way of contacing you and millions of others except through the Internal Revenue Service..."
I haven't got mine yet. Maybe I wasn't affected. [/wishfull thinking] Other than that I'm mostly (not completely) satisfied with the treatment I've received as a disabled vet and I've even been asked to participate in focus groups on VA services.



OK, I'm only going to respond to you one more time. You ignored my original question: Define what Liberal Slavery is? I'm really interested in what that looks like...
I must have missed that. Not exactly "liberal slavery," I think we were talking about "socialist slavery" and anytime socialism is implemented individual freedoms are trampled. Hence the analogy to slavery. You no longer have a choice, you're forced. That's the immoral system, socialism. Which is more moral, a capitalist who willingly donate to charities that they support or a socialist government forcing you to work to pay for the benefit of somebody that you owe no debt to nor have done any wrong to? You do understand that Lincoln freed the slaves, not because he had jungle fever but because he understood that it was wrong to force the slaves to work for other people's gain. The history of socialism and it's evil offspring communism, shows that the systems are fundementally flawed because humans want to be free. Socialists hate capitalism because it provides an alternative to liberal oppression and control.

[birdgirl73]

I'm going to get it in a big way from IAM for those my admittedly rather sick fantasy. He's gonna shake in fury, raise his fist at the devil, and call me a kiddie name!!

[graymatter]

Oooh, you're wicked, GrayMatter. I like that.

I have an unkind Pat Robertson fantasy. And it's my mission to share it. In it, Pat is piloting the next jet owned by his organzation to go down, killing the pilot and his co-passenger, who is Jerry Falwell. The fantasy jet would go down this season in the worst hurricane ever on record, something far out in the Atlantic that won't hurt anybody else. Brother Pat will be cemeted forever as a wise and brilliant weather prophet. His estate and the fortunes of CBN will go to the pro-choice and pro-national-health care movements. Brother Jerry's fortunes will go to gay-lesbian-friendly and environmental causes, particularly global warming.

Legions of thinking, caring people throughout the world will rejoice.

LOL... Oh, yeah, now you're talking! And Jerry Falwell, too! I hope the donation checks have cleared, of course... Or, maybe the National Liberal Society can take over his Thomasville Road Baptist Church (and tele-following) and hold the Sunday coffers hostage until the Fascist Liberal causes are adequetaly funded ... Peace ;)

[iamapatient]

If predictions are your hobby, don't quit your day job. If you're a fortune teller, seek new employment. ;)

[birdgirl73]

I went to services at the Thomasville Road church about 10 years ago with my Virginia cousins! I seriously did. I wanted to see it in action. They, of course, wanted my soul to feel the effects of fundamentalist fever. It was fascinating, I must say.

And I hate to brag but I once also sat in the same Don's Seafood Restaurant in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, with Jimmy Swaggart sitting two tables over.

I mean to tell you, I've had brushes with holy greatness.

Also with the political kind on two sides. On vacation four years ago, my husband and I met Janet Reno, standing in the rental car place at the airport in Key West when we were flying out to return to Miami and come home. We shook hands with her. And my husband claims she looked at my rear end as we walked away. That was as close as I wanted that brush to get.
On the right side, I got to shake hands once at at stockholder's meeting in Dallas with both Dick Cheney and Jim Baker, who were there as members of the board at a company's stockholder meeting where I'd written one of the executive speeches.

Greatness comes in lots of forms. I'll often just settle for seeing famous folks. Even when I don't agree with them politically, I'm sorta starstruck. And I confess that I very much respect their right to their own, differing opinions. I work with lots of very conservative folks and have lived in Texas for most of my life, so I'm comfortable with them. I'd have to be!

[graymatter]

I haven't got mine yet. Maybe I wasn't affected. [/wishfull thinking] Other than that I'm mostly (not completely) satisfied with the treatment I've received as a disabled vet and I've even been asked to participate in focus groups on VA services.



I must have missed that. Not exactly "liberal slavery," I think we were talking about "socialist slavery" and anytime socialism is implemented individual freedoms are trampled. Hence the analogy to slavery. You no longer have a choice, you're forced. That's the immoral system, socialism. Which is more moral, a capitalist who willingly donate to charities that they support or a socialist government forcing you to work to pay for the benefit of somebody that you owe no debt to nor have done any wrong to? You do understand that Lincoln freed the slaves, not because he had jungle fever but because he understood that it was wrong to force the slaves to work for other people's gain. The history of socialism and it's evil offspring communism, shows that the systems are fundementally flawed because humans want to be free. Socialists hate capitalism because it provides an alternative to liberal oppression and control.

Thanks for keeping it cival... Lincoln was perhaps our greatest president and it's not primarily because he freed the slaves. He served to preserve the Union and he died for it. John Wilkes Booth didn't shoot him because he freed slaves.

The reason I despise the Bush administration is that they got EVERYTHING wrong... War, Gays, Taxes, Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Faith Based Initiatives. They took an opportunity to unite the world and squandered it on the notion that U.S. corporate interests could shape the world, while religious interests could shape the courts and the legislature... Well, 90% of the world thinks we're stupid and dangerous, and 65% of Americans are now wondering the same.

How free were the workers in the capitalism of the early to mid 1900's? Troops and Corporate hired militia to quell socialist dissent????

[graymatter]

I went to services at the Thomasville Road church about 10 years ago with my Virginia cousins! I seriously did. I wanted to see it in action. They, of course, wanted my soul to feel the effects of fundamentalist fever. It was fascinating, I must say.


But you gotta love the Blue Ridge area!!! I've been there as well... the locals tolerate Falwell like a demented uncle.

[birdgirl73]

That is indeed a beautiful, beautiful part of the country. I'd like to live there someday. My ancestors came into the U.S. through that part of the country some 300 year ago.

[iamapatient]

Thanks for keeping it cival... Lincoln was perhaps our greatest president and it's not primarily because he freed the slaves. He served to preserve the Union and he died for it. John Wilkes Booth didn't shoot him because he freed slaves.

The reason I despise the Bush administration is that they got EVERYTHING wrong... War, Gays, Taxes, Patriot Act, Homeland Security, Faith Based Initiatives. They took an opportunity to unite the world and squandered it on the notion that U.S. corporate interests could shape the world, while religious interests could shape the courts and the legislature... Well, 90% of the world thinks we're stupid and dangerous, and 65% of Americans are now wondering the same.

How free were the workers in the capitalism of the early to mid 1900's? Troops and Corporate hired militia to quell socialist dissent????
Lincoln was, indeed, one of our greatest (if not the greatest) and not just for preserving the Union, either. I think it was his commitment to the Consitution at the expense of public opinion and personal feelings that showed a great deal of integrity and class befitting the office of President. Freeing the slaves didn't hurt either. Only the whackjobs think it was the wrong thing to do now. ;)

I don't agree and once again (like these retarded draft threads) Bush is being blamed for things while democrats get a free pass for the same things.
War? It was Clinton administration intelligence and policy that was used. Even the report on intelligence said teh problem was we relied too much on UN intelligence. :rolleyes:
Gays? He campaigned and won supporting marriage as between a man and a woman, he's been rock steady on that one too.
Taxes? I support lower taxes. I think I can best decide how to spend my money, not the government.
PA? You mean the one voted yes too by all of those liberals too? The one that tore down teh Clinton era wall between inteligence agencies that might have prevented 9/11? Bush's fault? :rolleyes:
DHS? Oh, the one that President Bush was initially opposed to but reconsidered after being attacked by democrats, Republicans and the public in general that DEMANDED a DHS? The one that liberal legislators voted for too? Also President Bush's fault? :rolleyes:
Faith based initiatives? God forbid charities that believe in god be reimbursed for disaster relief, right? Yes, we wouldn't want the poor children to learn about morality or God but it's perfectly fine to indoctrinate them with liberal socialist propaganda about homosexuality, politics, evironmental activism, etc?
There were America haters long before Iraq so please try to find a reasonable excuse. I'll tell you why, because America proves how impotent europe (and liberalism in general) is and socialists hate that. Wannabe intellectuals try to blame the US so they don't have to look at themselves for what they see. Moral relativists make excuses for their own failures by trying to demonize others to pass the buck, so to speak. Lemmings just do what lemmings do, follow the other lemmings. Right is still right, no matter if a poll shifts or not. Hating President Bush doesn't make the right thing wrong....unless you're a liberal.

EDIT: oops...
How free were the workers? They were free to quit and find other work or start their own companies.

[Shelbay]

I generally call folks on it when I see the name-calling happen over and over again, but I don't see it every time it happens, so I couldn't call Pisshead on something that I hadn't seen. I'm not a fast enough reader to read every post on here.

Actually, that wasn't an attack on Bong's literacy. It was my opinion stated in "I language." There's a difference, and not even a particularly subtle one. But it's not an attack, and if he took it that way, I'd trust him either to tell me so or ask about it to clear things up. Bong, I hope you're not feeling attacked!

Here's my deal. I've got a real up-close-and-personal look right now with a sister who's got a terminal disease at how truly short life is. It's frighteningly so. And I honestly believe that we've got to try our best to try and treat others with respect and decency. That includes not name-calling, not flaming them with profanity, not whirling around on them and suddenly coming out at them defensively and angrily but instead checking out our own perceptions before we assume they're out to get us. For me, it involves standing up for myself in conversations I'm involved in or have an intellectual stake in by calling folks on the bad-mannered stuff.
Fair enough..just remember your explanation next time you choose to question a post of mine to its actual intent. Debating is based on facts usually not perception seeing as most are different anyway and you say its standing up for yourself in conversations you are involved in..same here..thats why I didnt get you questioning me on a post I made to Torog and billion. I enjoy your viewpoints (different) but it was strange in more than one forum to be questioned on my post that did not concern you..cleared up now..and really hope your sister improves..miracles do happen if its Gods will and your sister has the will.:thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

Fair enough..just remember your explanation next time you choose to question a post of mine to its actual intent. Debating is based on facts usually not perception seeing as most are different anyway and you say its standing up for yourself in conversations you are involved in..same here..thats why I didnt get you questioning me on a post I made to Torog and billion. I enjoy your viewpoints (different) but it was strange in more than one forum to be questioned on my post that did not concern you..cleared up now..and really hope your sister improves..miracles do happen if its Gods will and your sister has the will.:thumbsup:
Thanks, Shelbay, for the kind words about my sister. Seriously, that means a lot. I have cried so much over the last two and a half days about that situation and prayed for a miracle. What I can't seem to keep up is my own hope now that the docs say the outlook is terminal. And I know that if I could still grasp onto some of the hope myself, I'd be a better caretaker and feel better myself. Any experience or advice you have here would be welcome.

Just learned some good news, however. We're going to be in your state before much longer, spending some time at Gulf Shores, which has been one of my favorite places for a long time. I love Alabama!

[graymatter]

Fair enough..just remember your explanation next time you choose to question a post of mine to its actual intent. Debating is based on facts usually not perception seeing as most are different anyway and you say its standing up for yourself in conversations you are involved in..same here..thats why I didnt get you questioning me on a post I made to Torog and billion. I enjoy your viewpoints (different) but it was strange in more than one forum to be questioned on my post that did not concern you..cleared up now..and really hope your sister improves..miracles do happen if its Gods will and your sister has the will.:thumbsup:

I like the dialouge and tone here... one point, Facts seem pretty irrelevent when it comes to debating politics or religion. They don't typically jump up and slap me in the face and change or motivate me without me running them through my values filter... I suspect I'm not the only one this applies to.

Probably the best recent example of why facts are irrelevent... Look at the president of the sovereign nation of Iran, whos declares the Holocost never occured. :confused:

[iamapatient]

Probably the best recent example of why facts are irrelevent... Look at the president of the sovereign nation of Iran, whos declares the Holocost never occured. :confused:
Or look at this thread. The FACT that the bills are authored and co-sponsored by democrats and President Bush is being blamed for a draft he doesn't support proves that fact and reason mean nothing to the anti-Bush crowd.

[graymatter]

Or look at this thread. The FACT that the bills are authored and co-sponsored by democrats and President Bush is being blamed for a draft he doesn't support proves that fact and reason mean nothing to the anti-Bush crowd.

Ummm... I don't recall any blaming the president for supporting a draft. Why should he support the draft?

[birdgirl73]

He shouldn't.

Evenin', Gray and Iam.

[iamapatient]

Ummm... I don't recall any blaming the president for supporting a draft.
Do you even read these draft threads? ;)
http://boards.cannabis.com/showpost.php?p=807395&postcount=10

Yeah it will proberly get to that point where bush will have to draft people if he starts a war with Iran....
There are plenty of other retarded draft threads too. It's just not going to happen. :rolleyes:

[graymatter]

He shouldn't.

Evenin', Gray and Iam.

What's going on, there, Birdgirl? Did you enjoy your dinner? I'm getting ready to watch some Monty Python...

and, hey, IAM, I've had a long day at work and plan on smoking some MJ... it helps me think about ways to annoy everyone. :thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

Dinner was OK. I'm not very hungry these days, to be honest, and somehow a sizzling Flinstone-sized steak when it's 98 degrees outside didn't exactly hit the spot. The salad was good, though. And the lemon ice afterwards was perfect.

I think a dose of Monty and a doobie sound like a great plan. I may do the Monty but not the doobie. Not enough extra in the pharmacopia to take it away from my sister. And I'm not sure it'd help my case of the blues tonight anyway.

I'm sure this is in a previous post someplace, but I'll ask it here anyway because it's easier. What sort of work do you do, Gray?

[graymatter]

Do you even read these draft threads? ;)
http://boards.cannabis.com/showpost.php?p=807395&postcount=10



Not really, I do glance at the posts where people write they're afraid Bush will reinstate the draft... They actually have nothing to fear about Bush supporting the draft: He has 1) The Bomb and 2) You and Torog to clean up the mess... ;)

[graymatter]

I'm sure this is in a previous post someplace, but I'll ask it here anyway because it's easier. What sort of work do you do, Gray?

Not really... haven't posted that level of detail... but I'm in business consulting (legitimate, sanctioned, that is). I help Republicans all day where it matters to them most :dance:

[birdgirl73]

!!LOL!!

I'm afraid I do, too. I'm an executive speechwriter and general all-purpose executive communications and marketing consultant for a huge, global technology company that's based here in Texas. The gentlemen into whose mouths I put words vote Republican, which I can sorta understand considering their tax brackets.

[iamapatient]

and, hey, IAM, I've had a long day at work and plan on smoking some MJ... it helps me think about ways to annoy everyone. :thumbsup:
That's odd, I've had a long day smoking meds and plan on getting some work done. ;)

There will be no draft...

[birdgirl73]

What sort of work do you do, Iam? If you don't mind sharing, that is. If it's already been posted, forgive me in advance. I've not seen it.

[graymatter]

!!LOL!!

I'm afraid I do, too. I'm an executive speechwriter and general all-purpose executive communications and marketing consultant for a huge, global technology company that's based here in Texas. The gentlemen into whose mouths I put words vote Republican, which I can sorta understand considering their tax brackets.

Nice, always wanted to get to Austin. Is it true you can actually drive a Volvo with Vermont license plates and a Kerry/Edwards bumper sticker through Austin and live to tell about it?

[birdgirl73]

Not Austin, Dallas. The company I work for is now based in Plano, a wealthy suburb north of Dallas.

Democrats are welcome in Austin. I wish I worked for Dell and lived in Austin. Actually, no I don't. Michael Dell is said to be rather tough on his execs and direct support professionals, at least according to one of his speechwriters I've talked to before. He sometimes still votes with the Ds, I understand. His wife went to school with a friend of mine, and she shared that not so long ago.

[iamapatient]

What sort of work do you do, Iam? If you don't mind sharing, that is. If it's already been posted, forgive me in advance. I've not seen it.
I guess you'd say that I'm an entrepreneur. Self-employed computer guru, investor, inventor, artist, etc. I'm working on starting a mmj non-profit and thinking about starting a biodiesel production facility and/or a think tank too.

[birdgirl73]

That sounds like a wonderfully wide-ranging bunch of vocations/avocations. I'm especially interested in the art part. Do you paint or do fine arts? Or more computer-related art?

[iamapatient]

Some fine art, almost nothing on the computer. A little oil and water paint, a little sculpture (clay but I want to try stone someday),a little photography, wood, metal, plastics, haiku, etc...I even played with FX makeup for a while, I was once published for a short story (fiction) I wrote. and I used to be a body piercer. Maybe glass/ceramics one day too. I guess I'm the "idea guy..." *shrug*

[Euphoric]

i cant seem to find anything about what they decided on, or if it was even debated. the media is strangely silent about this. to be honest the whole "secrecy" factor is disturbing

H.R. 4752: Universal National Service Act of 2006 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-4752)

[birdgirl73]

Some fine art, almost nothing on the computer. A little oil and water paint, a little sculpture (clay but I want to try stone someday),a little photography, wood, metal, plastics, haiku, etc...I even played with FX makeup for a while, I was once published for a short story (fiction) I wrote. and I used to be a body piercer. Maybe glass/ceramics one day too. I guess I'm the "idea guy..." *shrug*
Sounds like you are indeed the "idea guy." And it sounds like you keep yourself busy and entertained!

I draw and am a pretty good calligrapher. And I do stained glass, which is a great hobby but a messy one. I've sorta let those interests fall by the wayside lately, what with so much going on and with my rather constant nursing duties, and that hasn't been good for me. Last night when we were at dinner, my family gave me a registration receipt for a pottery class they'd signed me up for. It starts on Tuesday night, and I'm looking forward to doing some wheel work. Artistic things certainly feed the spirit. At least they do mine.

Hope you have a good Friday!

[Bong30]

I generally call folks on it when I see the name-calling happen over and over again, but I don't see it every time it happens, so I couldn't call Pisshead on something that I hadn't seen. I'm not a fast enough reader to read every post on here. (pisshead, gumby, ed and others have been going at it hard for a while)

Actually, that wasn't an attack on Bong's literacy. It was my opinion stated in "I language." There's a difference, and not even a particularly subtle one. But it's not an attack, and if he took it that way, I'd trust him either to tell me so or ask about it to clear things up. Bong, I hope you're not feeling attacked!
Bird girl this is an attack.....
Why is it that to make yourself feel better and to get your point across, you ahave to be so rude and call other people names? I think you tread on thin ice in a lotta ways--brainwise, heartwise, literacywise--but I find your scarcity of manners and respect the most hard to take, somehow.



Here's my deal. I've got a real up-close-and-personal look right now with a sister who's got a terminal disease at how truly short life is. It's frighteningly so. And I honestly believe that we've got to try our best to try and treat others with respect and decency.( i have had a bought with testicle cancer, tell me something i dont know.) That includes not name-calling, not flaming them with profanity, not whirling around on them and suddenly coming out at them defensively and angrily but instead checking out our own perceptions before we assume they're out to get us. For me, it involves standing up for myself in conversations I'm involved in or have an intellectual stake in by calling folks on the bad-mannered stuff.Please keep the manners on the rest of the forum.....I will not hold my tounge here in Political Forum. That is where you are wrong BG.....in the rest of the forum i keep it chill I take the gloves OFF FOR THE AMERICA HATING, COMMUNIST, here in PF.

OK now badgirl that you have told us (bragging i might say, ill quote you if you want me to blah blah speach writer blah blah) that you are very educated and important GOOD FOR YOU.

I am a Dad, that lost his Dad Viet nam. My mom worked 3 jobs growing up, and school was never at the top of my list. I did take 2.5 years of college I got Cs in english and As in economics and math and science. I was going to be a civil engineer. Well life happened, wife and kids later I still need to finish college. YOU WERE RIGHT YOU ARE WAY SMARTER THAN ME.


here is the differance, YOU ARE A BITCH FOR CALLING ME OUT (read above) I have never said anything to you in a post, and the first words out of your mouth to me were (thin ice). Get off you high horse and come down to the real word with the rest of us. ( you could write a speach about it) ohh yea I have been a Public speaker for years now, my job..... got an A in that class too.

PS.
I chose to change carrers, and go into the family bussiness. 1 week on the Job and My 55 year old dad fell and broke the Ball off of his femur, (broken hip) Now His family is in jepordy, my family is in jepordy. I am going through one of the toughest times in my life.
Please say a prayer for my DAD, and Birdgirl you can use that information to slam and belittle me some more.:thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

Hi Bong..I will say a prayer for your Dad..don't know his name so I will just say Bongs Dad..he knows who I am talking about:) Your Mom worked 3 jobs?? I have met people that lost their fathers and their mother did the same thing..I very much have respect for any woman that can work like that outside the home and still hold the home together..sounds like you come from strong stock Bong..just keep holding your head high..there are a few private groups that I can give you their contact info that helps families like yours..with a vet involved. Its situations like yours that I don't understand how our country can ignore people that work hard and give to their Country but when they need their Countrys help in return..its not there..I am so sorry your having this kind of stress Bong.

[Bong30]

Hi Bong..I will say a prayer for your Dad..don't know his name so I will just say Bongs Dad..he knows who I am talking about:) Your Mom worked 3 jobs?? I have met people that lost their fathers and their mother did the same thing..I very much have respect for any woman that can work like that outside the home and still hold the home together..sounds like you come from strong stock Bong..just keep holding your head high..there are a few private groups that I can give you their contact info that helps families like yours..with a vet involved. Its situations like yours that I don't understand how our country can ignore people that work hard and give to their Country but when they need their Countrys help in return..its not there..I am so sorry your having this kind of stress Bong.
Shel,
Thank you very much....xoxoxox


P.S
his name is Andy(God knows, you are right).... he is my second step Dad. He is the best. I love him very much.
I have told my MOM that I will take over his route, till he gets back on his feet. I only had one week of training, but i will go out and make him proud.

Thanks again Shel,

[birdgirl73]

OK now badgirl that you have told us (bragging i might say, ill quote you if you want me to blah blah speach writer blah blah) that you are very educated and important GOOD FOR YOU.

I am a Dad, that lost his Dad Viet nam. My mom worked 3 jobs growing up, and school was never at the top of my list. I did take 2.5 years of college I got Cs in english and As in economics and math and science. I was going to be a civil engineer. Well life happened, wife and kids later I still need to finish college. YOU WERE RIGHT YOU ARE WAY SMARTER THAN ME.


here is the differance, YOU ARE A BITCH FOR CALLING ME OUT (read above) I have never said anything to you in a post, and the first words out of your mouth to me were (thin ice). Get off you high horse and come down to the real word with the rest of us. ( you could write a speach about it) ohh yea I have been a Public speaker for years now, my job..... got an A in that class too.

PS.
I chose to change carrers, and go into the family bussiness. 1 week on the Job and My 55 year old dad fell and broke the Ball off of his femur, (broken hip) Now His family is in jepordy, my family is in jepordy. I am going through one of the toughest times in my life.
Please say a prayer for my DAD, and Birdgirl you can use that information to slam and belittle me some more.:thumbsup:
I'm not gonna slam and belittle you some more, Bong, and I sure as heck hope I didn't do that earlier. If I did, I am sorry. I hope someday you can learn you don't have to belittle others with names. Right now, you're obviously too angry to do that.

I'm gonna remember you in my thoughts and prayers and ask others to as well. I don't ever forget for a moment how lucky I am and have been. And I'm more keenly aware that others are less fortunate than you might realize. That's the chief reason why I vote the way I do.

That wasn't bragging about my job. It was just my title. This job is actually quite awful in thousands of ways. And that's why, in less than eight weeks, I'm leaving it to go back to school. I cannot wait to be free of it, frankly.

Peace and love and happiness and prosperity to you, Bong, and to your family. If you want to turn this all into a slam against you and call me a name again, you go for it. You obviously need to do that, and I'm a good, anonymous victim for you to take your rage out on.

[Bong30]

If I did, I am sorry.
I accept your appologie, and I am sorry too.

Thank you for the kind words, and prayers for my Family..... we need it right now.

Thank you..........

[iamapatient]

i cant seem to find anything about what they decided on, or if it was even debated. the media is strangely silent about this. to be honest the whole "secrecy" factor is disturbing
[/URL]
It's no secret... :rolleyes:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h109-4752
Official Title: To provide for the common defense by requiring all persons in the United States, including women, between the ages of 18 and 42 to perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.
Status: Introduced (By Rep. Charles Rangel [D-NY])
This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced House bills go first to House committees that consider whether the bill should be presented to the House as a whole. The majority of bills never make it out of committee.
Introduced: Feb 14, 2006
Last Action: Feb 23, 2006: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.
Sponsor: Rep. Charles Rangel [D-NY](no cosponsors)
It's clearly stuck in committee with zero cosponsors and even less interest. Ding-dong the democrat draft bill is dead....again. DEAD. ;)

[braddog10]

I accept your appologie, and I am sorry too.

Thank you for the kind words, and prayers for my Family..... we need it right now.

Thank you..........


Thank you guys for an outstanding session.....I don't know. I thought it an appropriate word to use.

FWIW, I really enjoy everyone here, I new, given it time ~ I may not later.
Or visa versa.

Billibong - sorry man, I need to keep my own political correctness, to my self.

I just get bothered, that God takes the Rap for things some Christians don't understand..... ~Look not your Fault~ It's Ours.

Not trying to be a martar, it's just the way it is.......as I see it.

Bong 30... I'm there man.... Look your in the fire. This season is going to give you strength ~ you may need later.....

on my knees shortly.

[minnesota man]

Damn, I can't believe I missed this discussion. I read Draft in the title of the thread and didn't give it a thought because it won't happen. I wish it would because I would love to fight for my country.

I'm glad Bong30 and birdgirl made up. I love you both and will say a prayer tonight for Bong's dad and bird's sister.

I would also smoke a bowl but I have no weed.:mad:

[iamapatient]

Damn, I can't believe I missed this discussion. I read Draft in the title of the thread and didn't give it a thought because it won't happen. I wish it would because I would love to fight for my country.

You *do* understand that you can join without a draft, right? If you want to fight for your country, you don't need to be drafted, you can just sign up. :confused:

[minnesota man]

Yeah I do, but with where I'm at, it's better for me to raise my kids. Plus, my wife won't let me. But if it comes to the draft, I'm in.

[birdgirl73]

Yeah I do, but with where I'm at, it's better for me to raise my kids. Plus, my wife won't let me. But if it comes to the draft, I'm in.
Hey, sweet MM! I wrote you an email. Don't you worry your little blue-striped head about anything. All is well, and I still love you, too. Never stopped.

[minnesota man]

Hey, sweet MM! I wrote you an email. Don't you worry your little blue-striped head about anything. All is well, and I still love you, too. Never stopped.


Yes, I read it. Thank you. See you later. Time to go night, night.

[iamapatient]

Yeah I do, but with where I'm at, it's better for me to raise my kids. Plus, my wife won't let me. But if it comes to the draft, I'm in.
Like a note from the government, to your wife, excusing you for duty? ;)

[Shelbay]

I like the dialouge and tone here... one point, Facts seem pretty irrelevent when it comes to debating politics or religion. They don't typically jump up and slap me in the face and change or motivate me without me running them through my values filter... I suspect I'm not the only one this applies to.

Probably the best recent example of why facts are irrelevent... Look at the president of the sovereign nation of Iran, whos declares the Holocost never occured. :confused:
But the fact is it did happen..Irans idiot in charge opinion is that is didn't happen..fact is..that it did..you can't change his perception on things but the majority of the world know that the holocaust is a fact.

[Pennsterdam]

LOL...all the attack would be about is taking out their nuclear capabilities. But of course we ARE the evil empire looking to snatch up the worlds oil...right?:rolleyes:Correct..the US is the evil empire. They just make it sound good! You don't really expect the US to just bomb and leave do you?? Oh no my friend. They will push for regime change and make Iran into a "democratic" republic against the will of the people, hence that is why they will have a draft and send us young people to go die for.....well really for their amusement!! These are the people that supposedly lead us.

What a fucked up world we live in. They call this reality huh.

"It's a crazy mixed up world, it's a Doggy Dogg World"