Bush calls for gay marriage ban

[Pennsterdam]

Didn't he already try this shit before?? This is so unjust and unfair. This is one of the main reasons why I hate Bush! His intolerance and fakeness to please the Christian Right. What is Bush going to do next...ban owning Qur'ans? If you're gay, go get married in Canada. It seems Canada doesn't have its head up its ass like America does.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5044428.stm

US President George W Bush has called for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages. Mr Bush used his weekly radio address to deliver a plea for the US Senate to formally define marriage as the union of man and woman.

He said the measure was needed because "activist courts" left no alternative.

An amendment stands little chance of being passed but analysts say Republicans see the issue as a vote winner in November's mid-term polls.

They say the president is seeking to switch the spotlight onto positive issues for his party in the wake of his slumping popularity - particularly over Iraq.

Opinion polls

Mr Bush said: "Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society."

Judges have recently rejected laws on traditional marriages in states such as Washington, California and New York.

"An amendment to the constitution is necessary because activist courts have left our nation with no other choice," Mr Bush said.

However, an amendment would require two-thirds support in the House and Senate. A similar measure was defeated in 2004.

Republicans are hoping their stance on an issue that opinion polls suggest is shared by the public will boost votes in November, when they fear losing control of Congress.

A recent Gallup poll suggested 59% of Americans were opposed to validating gay marriage in law.

The Democrats accuse their rivals of applying a smokescreen.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said: "Bush Republicans would rather focus on purely divisive manoeuvres than real solutions that address the growing energy crisis."

[Bong30]

Didn't he already try this shit before?? This is so unjust and unfair. This is one of the main reasons why I hate Bush! His intolerance and fakeness to please the Christian Right. What is Bush going to do next...ban owning Qur'ans? If you're gay, go get married in Canada. It seems Canada doesn't have its head up its ass like America does.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5044428.stm

US President George W Bush has called for a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriages. Mr Bush used his weekly radio address to deliver a plea for the US Senate to formally define marriage as the union of man and woman.

He said the measure was needed because "activist courts" left no alternative.

An amendment stands little chance of being passed but analysts say Republicans see the issue as a vote winner in November's mid-term polls.

They say the president is seeking to switch the spotlight onto positive issues for his party in the wake of his slumping popularity - particularly over Iraq.

Opinion polls

Mr Bush said: "Ages of experience have taught us that the commitment of a husband and a wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society."

Judges have recently rejected laws on traditional marriages in states such as Washington, California and New York.

"An amendment to the constitution is necessary because activist courts have left our nation with no other choice," Mr Bush said.

However, an amendment would require two-thirds support in the House and Senate. A similar measure was defeated in 2004.

Republicans are hoping their stance on an issue that opinion polls suggest is shared by the public will boost votes in November, when they fear losing control of Congress.

A recent Gallup poll suggested 59% of Americans were opposed to validating gay marriage in law.

The Democrats accuse their rivals of applying a smokescreen.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said: "Bush Republicans would rather focus on purely divisive manoeuvres than real solutions that address the growing energy crisis."
Penn... you are at 30 posts what percentage is america, bush hating posts? without looking i would say.....25 of 30

i dont know where i stand on gay marrige. i do know that if God would have wanted male to be with males, and women to be with women, he would have made us asexual. We need to reproduce.

I do think the union, and the word marriage should be for hetrosexuals.

that doesnt mean that they shouldnt have the same rights as far as health care, wills, and other basic rights. Lets call it a civil union....not marriage

[gjpop2000]

It's not exactly moral to me, but I don't have anything against gay marriage; to each his own. Bush is an asshole either way.

[Bong30]

It's not exactly moral to me, but I don't have anything against gay marriage; to each his own. Bush is an asshole either way.
good way to hit that bush bashing quota for the day.......


I think Bush is the lamest, lame duck president ever, but i dont fell the need to put it in every post......

just put.... I hate Bush in your sig to cut down on time:thumbsup:

[eg420ne]

....

just put.... I hate Bush in your sig to cut down on time:thumbsup:
Thats funny Bong i thought of that a while back so i put BushIsUSAma in my sig:thumbsup:

Oh yeah if gays want to marry so be it, theres much more that needs to be taken care then worrying about gay shit like this;) can name dozen or so items that need quick action then banning gays from marrying, should i name some or can i leave it at that, or better yet i provide sum pictures

Bong, our borders still wide open & the valley has seen increase in murders & home invasions as of late, the border issues should be top of the list.....

[Bong30]

Thats funny Bong i thought of that a while back so i put BushIsUSAma in my sig:thumbsup: I know the young ones need some help

Oh yeah if gays want to marry so be it, theres much more that needs to be taken care then worrying about gay shit like this;) can name dozen or so items that need quick action then banning gays from marrying, should i name some or can i leave it at that, or better yet i provide sum pictures True DAT

Bong, our borders still wide open & the valley has seen increase in murders & home invasions as of late, the border issues should be top of the list.....It is on the top of my list..thats for sure keep us up, on how it is down there!.
:D :stoned:

[Myth1184]

Seperation of Church and State wasnt meant to keep the Church our of the State, it was meant to keep the State out of the Church. But Liberals see it as a weapon against all things Christian...

[Esoteric416]

Seperation of Church and State wasnt meant to keep the Church our of the State, it was meant to keep the State out of the Church. But Liberals see it as a weapon against all things Christian...
Do you mean to say it's alright for the church to mess with the running of the country but it's not OK for the Gov. to mess with the docterines of the church.
Beware the double standard.

[graymatter]

Do you mean to say it's alright for the church to mess with the running of the country but it's not OK for the Gov. to mess with the docterines of the church.
Beware the double standard.


This person loves to bash liberals (democrats, mostly) and then retreat to his/her cave... I think we need to address the role of the church in a specific context... seems the bible thumpers and the Roman Catholic church would differ on our role in IRAQ, for instance!

What's it going to be CHURCH... Preemptive War good or Preemptive War bad?

[graymatter]

Do you mean to say it's alright for the church to mess with the running of the country but it's not OK for the Gov. to mess with the docterines of the church.
Beware the double standard.

Sorry Esoteric, meant to address Myth1184... the cave dweller

[eg420ne]

Yeah myth1184 does alot of hit-n-runs..Theres been several times me & others proved his post wrong and he never comes back to defend himself....I still think he may be a hardcore liberal pretending to be republican just to show how crazy they are-IMO

[the image reaper]

Seperation of Church and State wasnt meant to keep the Church our of the State, it was meant to keep the State out of the Church. But Liberals see it as a weapon against all things Christian...

absolutely, positively, 100% TRUE ... the Pilgrims, etc were trying to escape the Church of England, etc, and wanted the New World to have churches that were off-limits to government ... funny how things get twisted around ... :smokin:

[Pennsterdam]

I still think that Bush trying to ban homosexual marriage in the US Constitution is going way too far and any reasonable enlightened person can see that. It reminds me of when Hitler enacted the Nuremburg Race Laws. He is just using the Christian Right as his tool for accomplishing his goals. All this talk about "oh we have to protect marriage" is bullshit. Gay people have never "threatened" marriage. lol. But than these assholes will say "oh people are going to start marrying sheeps and dogs!".

Lol yea..they say Bush doesn't base his government on religion, yet he bases this gay marriage ban on the Mosaic Law of just a union of man and woman. Bush is a flip-flopper like any other wicked politician. Lol I am not stupid. Bush is simply using the Christian Right to reach out to his more conservative supporters before the midterm elections.

It's strange though how gay marriage is legal in Canada, but they are willing to ban it in the Constitution in the so called "Land of the Free". Sounds more like Nazism.

[Marlboroman]

I saw on the news this morning that they are voteing on this today.

I think this is scary cause Hitler wents after the gays first as well, much on the same principals.

Will it be manditory for Muslims to register next?
Perhaps then be forced to wear bright red pull strings?

one can only speculate, but i think its a very dangerous road to travel that enters government laws into its peoples sex lives.

Altho many states have rules that do this, such as sodomy laws, which by definition is penetration into any oriface other than the vagina. (that includes blow jobs) As a whole these laws are not enforceable. Simply on the grounds that unless the sex was rape who is going to tell the police.

To tell someone who they can and cant marry is actually enforceable. Some may agree with it, but I find it a obviuos breach of freedom.

[Shelbay]

Alabama voted yesterday..last night when I viewed the returns on the States amendment for gay marriage it was very resounding..for Alabama anyway..79% No...and it looks like we will have Riley for Gov. again.

[Psycho4Bud]

The only thing that marriage has to do with government is benifits from social security, etc........if the church doesn't recognize it, why should the fed?

Actually, after living together for 7 years aren't you considered legally married anyways?

[eg420ne]

Isnt it when you have intercourse with a woman then you automatically married, at least thats what meaning I got from the bible, not that i take it literally, it could be, IDK

[birdgirl73]

That would be mighty funny and also tragic if it were a literal interpretation of marriage! We'd have an awful lot more married folks out there than we do now. And an awful lot more with whole long lists of husbands and wives. Imagine seeing an old flame at the mall when you were there with your family. "Oh yeah, that was my sixth husband. We were married after a few too many cocktails one night. Hey, Six!"

I thought it was the intercourse that consummated, or officially began, a Christian marriage. And Psycho4Bud's right. It's seven years of living together that consitutes a common-law arrangement and officially opens the season for future palimony lawsuits.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Scripture
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18. See also, Matthew, 5:31-32 and 19:3-9; Mark 10:1-12.

Looks like we've got a situation here! :dance:

[beachguy in thongs]

Scripture
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18. See also, Matthew, 5:31-32 and 19:3-9; Mark 10:1-12.

Looks like we've got a situation here! :dance:

"...the Lord gave me tremendous opportunities. But I couldn't rest...But, thanks be to God, who made us his captives and leads us along in Christ's triumphal procession." Corinthians 2:12-14

[Psycho4Bud]

Scripture
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18. See also, Matthew, 5:31-32 and 19:3-9; Mark 10:1-12.

Looks like we've got a situation here! :dance:

Guess I got ALOT of explaining to do....LOL


Have a good one!

[birdgirl73]

What has it been for you, Psycho, 2 times through the D experience?

So I'm curious as to whether you're finished with trips to the altar or if romance and hope spring eternal and you're still out there wookin' pa nub?

[Psycho4Bud]

What has it been for you, Psycho, 2 times through the D experience?

So I'm curious as to whether you're finished with trips to the altar or if romance and hope spring eternal and you're still out there wookin' pa nub?

Well I got married......then I got divorced....but then I got married to a recently divorced woman.....then I got divorced.

I had an aunt who was married 6 different times before she found the right dude, I got a ways to go yet! Why not, it's like a spring house cleaning getting rid of half your stuff! LOL

Lookin for love in all the wrong places..............

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

Well I got married......then I got divorced....but then I got married to a recently divorced woman.....then I got divorced.

I had an aunt who was married 6 different times before she found the right dude, I got a ways to go yet! Why not, it's like a spring house cleaning getting rid of half your stuff! LOL

Lookin for love in all the wrong places..............

Have a good one!:thumbsup:
Wow, so you've even had divorces by marriage! I suppose that's not considered an accomplishment in the biblical adultery catalog of ills. But it caught my eye.

Keep fighting the good fight. I think there must be a lady out there with your name on her.

You're brave to still be on the market. I've only had this one marriage, but I confess that if it ended, I'd pretty well hang up my "wifing shoes" and call it a day, I think. Spend the rest of my life traveling and not answering to anybody!

P.S. My apologies for getting us off on a tangent on this thread!

[Psycho4Bud]

Wow, so you've even had divorces by marriage! I suppose that's not considered an accomplishment in the biblical adultery catalog of ills. But it caught my eye.

Keep fighting the good fight. I think there must be a lady out there with your name on her.

You're brave to still be on the market. I've only had this one marriage, but I confess that if it ended, I'd pretty well hang up my "wifing shoes" and call it a day, I think. Spend the rest of my life traveling and not answering to anybody!

P.S. My apologies for getting us off on a tangent on this thread!

Well hopefully if there is a God, he/she is more forgiving than my ex's. LOL

Will you still need me, will you still feed me, when I'm 64!:D

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

P.S. My apologies also.....they WERE NOT gay marriages! lol:thumbsup:

[birdgirl73]

P.S. My apologies also.....they WERE NOT gay marriages! lol:thumbsup:
!!LOL!! Like the new avatar, too!

[eg420ne]

This goes hand n hand with marriage & adultery
also can be said for the gays as well... Ecclesiasticus:24-25::To a man that is a fornicator all bread is sweet, he will not be weary of sinning into the end. 25 Every man that passeth beyond his own bed, despising his own soul saying "Who seeth me"

[eg420ne]

damn just one more quote from the bible :thumbsup:

"How can you join yourself to a prostitute? Don't you know that a man who has relations with a prostitute becomes one flesh with her." (I Cor 6:15)

[Psycho4Bud]

damn just one more quote from the bible :thumbsup:

"How can you join yourself to a prostitute? Don't you know that a man who has relations with a prostitute becomes one flesh with her." (I Cor 6:15)

Thanks eg.....that's one I haven't done....there must be hope for my soul yet!:D

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Marlboroman]

It's seven years of living together that consitutes a common-law arrangement and officially opens the season for future palimony lawsuits.

Its actually a state by state deal, in New York the law doesnt recognize common law marriage, doesnt matter how many kids you have, how long you have lived together, or even if you call eachother husband and wife.

In New York, no marriage liscense, yer not married.

[birdgirl73]

Its actually a state by state deal, in New York the law doesnt recognize common law marriage, doesnt matter how many kids you have, how long you have lived together, or even if you call eachother husband and wife.

In New York, no marriage liscense, yer not married.
I wondered if it varied from state to state when I wrote that because I've heard things like, "In Texas, commonlaw marriage. . . ." I fully confess I was more focused on going for the joke part of it about it opening up the season for palimony lawsuits! My bad.

[Psycho4Bud]

Kind a, sort of, fits this discussion....and others...LOL...enjoy!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYSAyPNR7qg&search=Gay%20Bar

[Breukelen advocaat]

Here's another video of the Bush/Blair team, with vocals that sound very similar to Diana Ross and Lionel Richie:

Bush and Blair's Endless Love (http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/multimedia/bushblair_endlesslove.mov)

[Pennsterdam]

Penn... you are at 30 posts what percentage is america, bush hating posts? without looking i would say.....25 of 30

i dont know where i stand on gay marrige. i do know that if God would have wanted male to be with males, and women to be with women, he would have made us asexual. We need to reproduce.

I do think the union, and the word marriage should be for hetrosexuals.

that doesnt mean that they shouldnt have the same rights as far as health care, wills, and other basic rights. Lets call it a civil union....not marriageThan you imply that gay "unions" are not worthy as a normal marriage. No. Let there be a "marriage" just like a male/female one. I have said it. So let it be done!

[BabySnookums]

what i dont get though, is on all these news programs, there's some motherfucker saying they wanna protect marriage between a man and a woman.... :confused: ok...someone wanna explain how two doods or two chicks gettin married would prevent men and women from still being able to get married?

:mad:

[braddog10]

I personally believe in the seperation of church and state. Just because God hates gays/lesbians, doesn't mean that America has too. This was a country founded on many different beliefs, not just christian ones.


Billionfold,

Your perception that God hate homosexuals is quite flawed.

His "word" states that "He takes no delight in the death of the wicked".
(however you may define It).

His desire is all of humanity come to Him.
Does it really matter where they are?

Anyone who seeks me will find me.
If he hated any group would he be willing to recieve them?

[Bong30]

Than you imply that gay "unions" are not worthy as a normal marriage. No. Let there be a "marriage" just like a male/female one. I have said it. So let it be done!
Penn it is so easy....
the hetro relationship has the potential to produce offspring.

the homo relationship (without help) has 0% chance of having kids.

So yes the hetro relationship has more value, cause it is how we propagate the human race.

Thinking like that.... if we were all homosexual....we would be gone.

its called logic...try it.

[Breukelen advocaat]

It's only a matter of time until science takes over the burden of producing children as replacements in laboratories.

Additionally, there is always the possibility of male-pregnancy techniques being developed.

The best thing would be for the human race to remove itself from Earth, by a cessation of breeding, since theyâ??ve screwed up so badly. This is called the Voluntary Extinction Movement.

[birdgirl73]

The best thing would be for the human race to remove itself from Earth, by a cessation of breeding, since theyâ??ve screwed up so badly. This is called the Voluntary Extinction Movement.

So Breukelen, do you really believe that last part--about it being the best thing? Or are you simply being a provacateur?

I certainly hope science doesn't completely take over the burden, as you call it, of producing children! I enjoyed the old-fashioned way of conception. Still do! And I just loved being pregnant. Wish it had happened easily for me so I could have had five or six more.

[braddog10]

Scripture
"Everyone who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and the one who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery." Luke 16:18. See also, Matthew, 5:31-32 and 19:3-9; Mark 10:1-12.

Looks like we've got a situation here! :dance:


Very good to see you my friend,

To attempt to clear up some confusion. Jesus (Quoted) was addressing a group of religious leaders that were under the perception that they had no sin. Jesus developed ~ expanded~ the origonal 10 comandments. You've murdered, if you have hated a brother~ Commited adultry, by looking at some gorgious chick and lusting after her.....etc...etc....

Haven't we all done this?... Of Coarse!!

The point is ~ Jesus wanted to make things very clear that, we all have sin, as it is refered, and in need of his provision.

Look...We all have done these things.

Birdgirl I loved your obseration...... How many wives do some us have by that definition?.... Wow,..... I donknow. God Knows.

If you don't mind, I hate to see people labor under a percieved bizzare excess .....from God that is not real.

Do we need His Forgivness? By the Way ~ That was His Point.

[Breukelen advocaat]

So Breukelen, do you really believe that last part--about it being the best thing? Or are you simply being a provacateur?

I certainly hope science doesn't completely take over the burden, as you call it, of producing children! I enjoyed the old-fashioned way of conception. Still do! And I just loved being pregnant. Wish it had happened easily for me so I could have had five or six more.

I'm not provoking anything, I'm just expressing my opinion - which is that the world isn't any better off because of the human race. We are an incredibly arrogant, and destructive, species of animal.

I don't doubt that you, and most other people, love having children. Eventually, there will be a limit as to how many they can produce. China has already started this.

Before we destroy the whole planet and everything on it, the human race should exit with dignity - and allow for the possibility of a better world, and more intelligent life, to develop. Of course, an unselfish act like this is beyond the scope of the human species' intelligence and ego.

[Breukelen advocaat]

[QUOTE=braddog10]Very good to see you my friend,
To attempt to clear up some confusion. Jesus (Quoted) was addressing a group of religious leaders that were under the perception that they had no sin. Jesus developed ~ expanded~ the origonal 10 comandments. You've murdered, if you have hated a brother~ Commited adultry, by looking at some gorgious chick and lusting after her.....etc...etc....

Haven't we all done this?... Of Coarse!!

If you don't mind, I hate to see people labor under a percieved bizzare excess .....from God that is not real.

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.

[birdgirl73]

I'm not provoking anything, I'm just expressing my opinion - which is that the world isn't any better off because of the human race. We are an incredibly arrogant, and destructive, species of animal.

I don't doubt that you, and most other people, love having children. Eventually, there will be a limit as to how many they can produce. China has already started this.

Before we destroy the whole planet and everything on it, the human race should exit with dignity - and allow for the possibility of a better world, and more intelligent life, to develop. Of course, an unselfish act like this is beyond the scope of the human species' intelligence and ego.
I understand your expanded statement here much better. You're quite right that we've been awfully destructive to our world. And that to allow for the possibility of a better world would be an unimaginably unselfish act.

[braddog10]

f

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.[/QUOTE]



You make claims, such as "People are born atheist, and have to learn Deism".
Breuk, statements like this, can be thrown out, by eather side, But, I have difficulty seeing any relevance.

By your zeal and your links, I'd say your heavily programed, and now ~ blind to an awsome creation, Hows' your world working? Huh?...

Hows' your relationships?

How happy are you? how bout those around you?

Ask your self these questions. I allready know what the answers are.

I know plenty others.... Sad Freakin Existence.

[braddog10]

Those concerned, the first Para. above is Bruek, Quote.

Breuk your hypocracy, is no less than the religious hypocrites you criticize.

Just like the same piece of crap, rolled over on its other side, with a renewed stinch,..... both need to be flushed.

Enjoy your life.

[Breukelen advocaat]

f

Why in the universe would a supreme being create something as infernally obnoxious as the human race? For it's own amusement, or simply because it has an insatiable need to be complimented and worshipped? I don't happen to believe in any of this nonsense, and if it turns out to be true, and I'm given the opportunity, I will certainly ask this monster why it has created us.



You make claims, such as "People are born atheist, and have to learn Deism".
Breuk, statements like this, can be thrown out, by eather side, But, I have difficulty seeing any relevance.

I did not say "Deism". It was "Theism". Most of the Founding Fathers were Deists, and did not take the Bible literally.

By your zeal and your links, I'd say your heavily programed, and now ~ blind to an awsome creation, Hows' your world working? Huh?...

The attemped religous programming of my youth did not work on me. My brain is not capable of processing nonsense, or responding to imaginary threats with fear.

My "world", as you put it, is fine, thank you - since I have been a rational thinker, as much as possible, for many years.

Hows' your relationships?

My "relationships" are fine - I'm happily married.

How happy are you? how bout those around you?

I'm happy enough, probably more than most people. Being happy is one of the most important aspects of life, IMO. Being "Blue" sometimes is inevitable; How you deal with it is what matters. Of course, the old saying that "ignorence is bliss" is still true. Unfortunatly, I'm not in that category.

Ask your self these questions. I allready know what the answers are.

I differ in that I do NOT know "the answers". I believe that it was Socrates who said something like, "I'm the smartest man in the world, because I know that I don't know anything'".

I know plenty others.... Sad Freakin Existence.[/QUOTE]

Yes, being a slave to a religous belief system IS a sad existence. Release your mind from it's shackles of beliefs and you too can experience freedom of thought.

Have a good W/E! :cool:

[braddog10]

Hey, Bruek,

A little deceptive aren't ya. Placing your sick statement, as if I wrote that.

I know you have a sick life, You folks sceam intolerance.
again, your own hypocracy,.... buddy, your shit stinks.

[Breukelen advocaat]

Hey, Bruek,

A little deceptive aren't ya. Placing your sick statement, as if I wrote that.

I know you have a sick life, You folks sceam intolerance.
again, your own hypocracy,.... buddy, your shit stinks.

No, I would not do that - my history of posting here goes way back, and proves that I've never done anything like that deliberatly. I just wasn't paying attention to the error - but anybody can just read the thread to see who said what anyway.

The only "sick" thing that I see is a constant barrage of quotes, as if they are worthwhile, from a book that has brought more misery to the human race than anything else man has created throughout history

And, make no mistake about this: NO religous book is "divine" - it is all the figment of human imagination. No man has ever communicated with a god, and never will. That is what the Founding Fathers believed - and if you say that I am "sick", then you can just as well say that Jefferson, T. Paine, Washington, and others were, as well.

[braddog10]

Breuk,

How is it that you insist on describing my neighborhood, insist it looks a certain way, and what the street lay out is, and have never been there.

You may believe that you have been exposed to Christianity, but, you know nothing of what I have observed and know to be true.

No one that is as jacked as you are, in their hatred of God, can go by and not have serious spiritual problems. Don't give me your line that you just don't believe. People don't get so wired over something like that. It is apparent that you have some major baggage.

To note that you immediately jumped in and attacked, on the thread "a fool believes in his heart that there is no God" on the spiritual forum. reveals some real problems. Have I ever initiated an attack on you?

You so readily quote the Bible, But, when it is explained in it's appropriate context, you get tweeked because ... Oh, God isn't so bad after all.

Well,.... We can't have that!

Live and let live.... please shelve your narcissism.

[braddog10]

...

[Shelbay]

But you know..that is his burden of hate to carry...oh and I oppose gay marriage and homosexuality..no I am not politically correct and no I don't hate..respect my right to not condone those practices...I don't have to like it and I don't..plain and simple.

[graymatter]

...

Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

God does have a sense of humor..

[Breukelen advocaat]

Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:


Exactly.

Braddog is simply ignoring the questions and going on a personal attack.

Maybe he does not know "the answers", which he claims to be in possession of, after all. :dance:

When ultra-religious people come on here all high and mighty, and think that they can teach us a thing or two about "god", they get disturbed when others disagree. This is how many problems in the world start - and is a perfect example of the dangers involved with actions based on delusional thinking. Our president is a good example of a similar mentality.

[braddog10]

Hey, Braddog, Breuk isn't making this a personal issue... lighten up or God might come down and give you a wedgy. Peace :thumbsup:

Thanks Gray.

I know, Thanks Buddy, I've been way off lately, emailed birdgirl about it last pm. I don't get it. A bit on the dull side. I haven't been home in two and a half months, My wife came up 4 weeks ago, Don't know how long project will last.
Gotta buy tickets out three weeks in advance, don't know if I'll be here. should have just bought em anyway. It's still 7 bills for next week, looks like I'll just have to bite it.
Got to step back out
preciatit.

[birdgirl73]

Hope you feel better soon, Braddog. Sorry you're such a lonely wolf right now. Definitely find a way to hook up with your wife no matter what. That's important!

[braddog10]

Picked up a ticket for thurs Am., not comin back until tues pm.
Wife's, elated, I'm relieved. More relief expected once I arrive.

Yes, there are Gays and lesbians, Yes they want to marry. Gotta finish on topic.

[jamstigator]

I'm not gay, but I have gay friends. On this issue, I ask myself this simple question: if my gay friends are able to be married, how does this harm me? I can't figure out any way their being married does me, or anyone, any harm. Conversely, does their being married do any GOOD for anyone? Yes, it does good, for them at least. Thus, the net effect is good. So, why not?

There's no way such a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage would pass anyway, and everyone knows it. While 2/3 of the Senate and House might approve of such a ban (doubtful), I am certain that 2/3 of the states are not (yet) that bigoted/prejudiced.

Stupid issue, because it's a pointless waste of time.

[Fengzi]

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again.

Forty or so years ago my marraige would have been illegal in some (Southern) States. You see, I'm White and my wife is Chinese. It wasn't until 1967 that the Supreme Court declared laws against mixed-race marraiges unconstitutional. Those in favor of the laws used many of the same arguments that those against gay marraiges use today: "Against God's plan", "Against Nature", etc etc.

Personally, I'm not religious and don't believe in God, so I don't really give a rat's ass if someone's marraige is "against God's plan" . I would be seriously pissed if some Bible thumping fucknut told me I couldn't get married because God didn't mean for Whites and Asians to mix.

For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

So, any religious arguments against gay marraige are simply bull shit. If a church doesn't want to perform a gay marraige, or kick out gay congregation members-fine. But that shouldn't stop the government from recognizing and performing gay marraiges.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?

[Fengzi]

Oh yeah, one more thing....

If you argue that gay marraiges should be banned in order to preserve good falily values and moral standards then lets also ban marraiges for child molesters, murderers, rapists, white supremecists, and all the other scum out there who currently have no problems walking down the aisle.

[mrdevious]

Seperation of Church and State wasnt meant to keep the Church our of the State, it was meant to keep the State out of the Church. But Liberals see it as a weapon against all things Christian...

Really, because I was under the impression that the control of the Pope and catholic church over government policy became a non-too-popular concept with the people of Europe. Democracies of today are not designed to have religious authorities overriding government policy and law, in case you haven't noticed.

Ah but what do I know, I'm just a filthy "liberal".

[dezalb]

Marriage was to be between a Man and women...

.. no Adam & Steve

[mrdevious]

Marriage was to be between a Man and women...

.. no Adam & Steve

If 2 people getting married aren't christians, why should they be bound by christian morals?

[Psycho4Bud]

LOL....now this is why politics are debated!!! This was my initial response:


The only thing that marriage has to do with government is benifits from social security, etc........if the church doesn't recognize it, why should the fed?

Actually, after living together for 7 years aren't you considered legally married anyways?

After reading this I have to change my vote on the issue!



For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?

I'm not anti-gay what so ever but the implications on the systems that you mentioned is what concerned me. I forgot about that one factor though...the Justice of the Peace (State) also performs marriages....non church related! Seperation of church and state still holds true!

Thanks Fengzi.....GREAT post!!!!

Have a good one!:thumbsup:

[Shelbay]

I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again.

Forty or so years ago my marraige would have been illegal in some (Southern) States. You see, I'm White and my wife is Chinese. It wasn't until 1967 that the Supreme Court declared laws against mixed-race marraiges unconstitutional. Those in favor of the laws used many of the same arguments that those against gay marraiges use today: "Against God's plan", "Against Nature", etc etc.

Personally, I'm not religious and don't believe in God, so I don't really give a rat's ass if someone's marraige is "against God's plan" . I would be seriously pissed if some Bible thumping fucknut told me I couldn't get married because God didn't mean for Whites and Asians to mix.

For many, many people marraige is a legal issue and not a religious issue. Just ask the IRS, INS, or dozens of other government organizations. I wasn't married by the Church. I was married by the City of Shanghai China. Our government, however, recognizes my marraige as valid. We are considered to be maried. Not to have a civil union or whatever they call it now.

So, any religious arguments against gay marraige are simply bull shit. If a church doesn't want to perform a gay marraige, or kick out gay congregation members-fine. But that shouldn't stop the government from recognizing and performing gay marraiges.

When I was engaged to my wife a lot of people asked my why I wanted to marry a Chinese girl. I told them "I don't want to marry a Chinese girl, I want to marry the woman I fell in love with". I imagine ots the same thing with gays. they just want to marrybthe person they fell in love with. Who are we to tell them no?
Nice post Fengzi..just one thing..some of us do give more than a rats ass about OUR beliefs..its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs but when we stand our ground on our principles we are labeled..well you and others do the same damn thing when we don't agree with issues such as this...I don't really matter into the grand scheme of laws and politics but I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs anymore than I should tell you your beliefs on homosexual rights is bs..because if thats the way of things..then I do say it ..its morally wrong imo and I get sick of being told I have to agree with homosexuality or I am full of hate! Thats one of the major things wrong with this world now..whatever anyone desires they have a right to it..yeah..at what cost? Also I get sick of hearing about the damn South on this issue..lets post some of the most stupid in effect laws that the NE still has on their books for a change..they are there. You call us bible thumping fucknuts..don't sterotype and expect others to show consideration toward you and yours when you don't dish it out. Your post made a convincing point up unto when you made it a personal issue about religion for ALL...I believe in God,Jesus Heaven & Hell but am far from being a fucknut..I could throw some degrading names out about non believers and sexually challenged folks but I don't make it personal..would be nice if hypocrites learned to do the same.

[Fengzi]

Hi Shelbay, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else who is strongly religious and/or beleives in God. My comment about "bible thumping fucknuts" was merely an expression of how I would feel about someone who commented negatively on my marraige based on their religious beliefs.

You state that "its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs". It is even more ironic that someone who makes this statement would be so quick to shun and label someone else (gays).

I do agree 100% with your comment of "I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs" . I should not impose my beliefs on you or anyone else. It is not my business to do so. The fact that you point this out, however, makes it all the more ironic that you wish to impose your beliefs on others. Is there really any difference from me allowing you to have your own beliefs and you (collectively speaking)allowing gay marraiges to happen? Your beliefs are none of my business and it is none of yours if some gay couple wants to marry. If you disagree with this, it is you who are the hypocrite, not me.

[graymatter]

Hasn't religion always influenced government, usually to support the traditions and institutions of the time...?

Where does christianity (in all it's sectarian difference) stand on the following?

slavery

civil rights for women

racial segregation

civil rights for minorities

gay marraige

[braddog10]

Hasn't religion always influenced government, usually to support the traditions and institutions of the time...?

Where does christianity (in all it's sectarian difference) stand on the following?

slavery

civil rights for women

racial segregation

civil rights for minorities

gay marraige


Awsome Gray,..........I'll give this some thought taday.

Just Chillin.

[jamstigator]

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

[birdgirl73]

I'd say I've come across two or three people in my life who would qualify as Christians by your definition up there, Jamstigator. Two of these people were practicing Quakers, who do the best job I know of of modeling absolute pacifism. The third is a colleague of mine who is the most serene, secure-in-her-faith person I've ever known. She is completely motivated by kindness and peace in her interactions with others. And I think she qualifies, too.

I want to give this some more thought, but my initial reaction is that I'm not at all certain I agree that an act of self-defense against rape or murder would truly disqualify someone as a Christian.

I think it's important to keep in mind that Christians don't have to be perfect in order to be true Christians. Sure, there are plenty of talk-the-talking hypocrites who can't get anything right and don't even try.

People will never fail to be disappointed if they look to Christ's followers as the models for Christian behavior. The only real model is Christ himself. Thankfully, there's grace for the rest of us!

[Shelbay]

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.
Your wrong..Jesus knew that we would sin (not perfect) that is the story behind him hanging on the cross between a murderer and a thief (no little sin or big sin..sin is sin) they both had a choice..you can murder..rape..and truly ask for forgiveness and you are still loved and accepted by your make Practicing faith is a good thing but to expect a Christian to be perfect is just an excuse to not even try...really glad God will be the one to Judge me and not mankind..he knows our heart. God knew we would have war time and peace time..for example David wrote in times of war and sacrifice,Solomon wroye in the days of peace and prosperity. Romans 3:23 syas Humans are sinful-All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. When we practice self-will as I call it and break our relationship with God..it is practicing rebellion and passive indifference..we all do it..but we all have the God given gift of forgiveness also..we just have to ask and do better in the way we live in our short time here. I replied to your post because you seem ignorant to the judgement calls you are making on true Christians and it just is wrong.

[Fengzi]

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.

I think that there are many definitions of a "Christain" depending on who you ask. Just as there are many definitions of "Muslim", "Buddhist", etc. I haven't opened a Bible in over 20 years but, as far as I can remember, there is nowhere a statement saying "The definition of a Christian is...." If there was, there wouldn't be so many different forms of Christianity today.

I also don't think that all Christians are hypocrites. Calling all of the followers of Christianity hypocrites is insulting to them. I have met many, many good people who are Christians. They only believe what they have been taught over and over throughout their life. I think it would be better to say that nearly all forms of Christianity(if not all religions), as institutions, are hypocritical.

"Go look for consistency in religion. And speaking of my friends the Catholics, when John Cardinal O'Conner came to New York, and some of these other Cardinals and Bishops have experienced their first pregnancies, and their first labor pains, and they've raised a couple of children on minimum wage, then I'll be glad to hear what they have to say about abortion! I'm sure it would be interesting! Enlightening too. But, in the mean time what they ought to be doing is telling these priests who took a vow of chastity to keep their hands off the alter boys. Keep your hands to yourself, Father! Ya know? When Jesus said "suffer the little children come unto me", that's not what he was talking about!! -George Carlin

[Shelbay]

Hi Shelbay, I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else who is strongly religious and/or beleives in God. My comment about "bible thumping fucknuts" was merely an expression of how I would feel about someone who commented negatively on my marraige based on their religious beliefs.

You state that "its ironic that believers are shunned and labeled because of our beliefs". It is even more ironic that someone who makes this statement would be so quick to shun and label someone else (gays).

I do agree 100% with your comment of "I am an individual that has certain beliefs and should not be told that my beliefs are bs" . I should not impose my beliefs on you or anyone else. It is not my business to do so. The fact that you point this out, however, makes it all the more ironic that you wish to impose your beliefs on others. Is there really any difference from me allowing you to have your own beliefs and you (collectively speaking)allowing gay marraiges to happen? Your beliefs are none of my business and it is none of yours if some gay couple wants to marry. If you disagree with this, it is you who are the hypocrite, not me.
I am very different from most on here..I am also a woman that believes in sex only for procreation and being married at that..I dislike the promiscuity of all people these days that practice self gratification with no thought of mankind..so no I am not a hypocrite..if I am by definition then I will take the label name and deal with it because I do not support or condone homosexuality..that is ME..I would not make the judgement call of telling any human they are worse than me because of their choice but I would also expect not to be held accountable for their actions by being passive and not speaking out loud my beliefs..that is a sin..passive indifference imo.Yes it is my business when homosexuals want to marry..I am a Christian and I believe it is wrong..not because of mans law but Gods..hope that makes sense..I am in a hurry but thought about this thread and issue since voting on it here in alabama last Tuesday..just weird it is an issue here. I apologize if I seem hypocritical to you but I am me..and I understand your validation on your marriage issue..I have posted this before but you may have missed it..The man I am married to now had never been married before but I had..I divorced..we were then told by 30 different Baptist preachers that we would not be married by them because of my previous marriage! We actually married in another State..anyway..what I am saying is that I do understand how religion can be twisted by man for their own practices..and the pain and confusion when attacked by religion..but I saw your post that about the South and I just thought well damn I am a Southerner that has been denied my religious right but I still get attacked being a part of a whole. I did misunderstand part of your post and took it personal..so thanks for the civil and decent response from you..very much appreciate your time in explaining your comments about the fnuts..so how do people meet on a common ground on this issue? A positive one...I have to go..in shock I actually liked your response..not much one can say to honesty like that...thanks again.

[braddog10]

Oh God, It just pains me to see what religion has done. I don't know which one to quote and respond to.
I grew up in the church, however I have been in many. The last twenty of which, are concidered Spirit filled by the rest of the genre.
Their are fine believers in all denominations. Jersus prayed "that we would all be one". His final prayer before his death. also, psalm of David spoke prophetically of the sacrafice lamb of God ,"of being all out of joint.

If ya'll don't mind,......religion is a demon.... I am not talking about a true relationship with God. I am talking about "mans" attempt to define and live a "religious life".

I am sadend by the damage that mans views have wrought on the whole of humanity.

Their are fine, fine people in every denomination. and their are religious pricks in all of them....."those who are lead by the spirit, are the sons and daughters of God." An interesting fact: Jesus rebuked Peter and aid "get behind me satan, for you are operating in the thoughts and the intents of man".

The point is, If we are operating other than, the thoughts and intents of the Spirit og God,.........Than we are operating in a demonic mindset.

THIS is where religion is born. This very aspect of man coming up with their, predisposed discriminations,........Then asighning them to God......
Oh, God how Grievous,.....Oh, God... I am so sadened for the projected view of stupid, stupid, religious thought. You all have seen my own show up here..
It also is sadening.

I do find hard since His word is clear that He does not condone this. Since, marriage language uses the bible, since it is addressed at length and mandated by Him, I can see problems with Gays being married in that setting. For civil unions? I question if He desires to make things difficult for them. Our hassels we bring upon ourselves. God loves gays more than the stupid issue.

Fenzi, You made a very good point and I desire say nothing to deminish it.
My personal view is that the Catholics should never have prevented thier own leaders to marry. Jesus healed Peters mother in law. Peter, the apostle that catholics modeled their priest after.

Paul (in the new testi..) said if one desires the oposite sex for not to withold from marriage. These problems manifesting from priest, were not given singleness. For a church leadership home to not procreate???????
Don't get it.

Very, quickly.....
Slavery ~ God saw the plite of the Jews in captivity and released them from it. There are many, many references to freedom, His desire that we all be free.
There were times when He used another nation to enslave them, however, I do not have time to go into what they fell into. If you new what He ment by the people making there children pass thru the fire it would sicken us all.

Civil rights for women ~ kinda falls under slavery dontit. The verses used to argue male domination is very flawed. For one ~ a man in proper position a woman would adore, and follow. the key follow.... not some jerk from behind driveing her along from the rear.
Another confused point, women covering their heads, In Corinthians Paul was instucting them to do so because only the prostitutes didn't cover their heads.
So many misaplications, causing so much confusion.

Race issue? God created man and woman in his image. It requires both to mirror him since both came from Him. Moses' wife was ethiopian. they were the Cushites, all dark skinned, In fact Mirium, his sister, mocked him, she was struck with leprosy, Ironically turns an individual white.

Please excuse legnth and spelling, still at work, have alot to finish, short week.

Blessing

[braddog10]

One interesting thing about Christianity, as an aside: there are very, very, very few actual Christians. The vast majority of those who say they are Christian aren't, except in terms of giving lip service to the teachings of Jesus. Christians are those who believe, AND PRACTICE, what Jesus Christ taught, and the main gist of what he taught is absolute pacifism under all circumstances. If you'd vote for a war, any war, for any cause, regardless of how just it might be in your mind, you aren't a Christian. If your mother is being raped, and the only way to prevent it is via some form of violence, and you would do so, you aren't a Christian. If someone was beating you, and intended to kill you, and the only way to prevent your death was to commit violence on the person intending to kill you, and you would do so to save your life, you aren't a Christian. Clearly, there are very few people who believe and practice what Jesus taught. In part, this may because such people often eliminate themselves from the gene pool, by being killed while practicing absolute pacifism. Absolute pacifism is just not a survival trait.

Those who say they are Christian, but who don't actually practice what Christ taught, are nothing more than hypocrites. I admire the concepts of peace and pacifism, and if I ever meet an actual Christian I will tell him or her so. But I will not hold my breath waiting for that to happen; in almost 42 years I have come across a grand total of 0 such people.


Hello Jamstigator, I guess, you got your view that Christians are passive by the passage, that quotes Jesus saying "If a person strikes you on your check, to turn to him the other to smite also." Jesus would often say shocking statements to make His point. His disciples were busy trying to jostle for position, in what they thought His kingdom was going to be. His kingdom wasn't a physical kingdom, which they all hoped for. Which is why Judas split.

As briefly as possible, His point!!!

Love does not have an opportunity to occur until the feelings associated with love are gone......this isn't an easy one.

Love is a decision,...When do we have to make a decision - to wish well for, and toward another?... But,......When the feelings are gone.......When the feelings are gone... when the intoxication of romance is gone, Isn't it then when we can grow into commitment and deeper love. My wife and I went thru typical hassles, trying to figure out life, clueless lost,... It can be very grating and hard. When I saw my wife's desire for things to just work...........man,....

I spent money on cars and whatever,....... leaving very little for her,.... her patience with me,....I tell ya,.. I have worked the last five years to make up, the best I can. That is what ~ turning of her cheek did to me.

How about some jerk just being an asshole, to find you congenial and unoffended. Your influence in his life?.....also, of what the lord was referring. How about when a close friend - talks trash about you. How about an incorrigible child? Doesn't mean we should just lay down

Self defense is totally appropriate. Someone breaks in, wants to jack with me, my wife, kids? I will put a bullet in their head in Jesus name. Otherwise I would not be fulfilling my role as priest over my home. We must keep the Lords words in context of the point he is making.
Their was and is mandated war. From the very beginning, we were given a mandate, to rule and take dominion. From the very 2nd ch into The Good Book.

I try to let things speak clearly where and as they are. Of coarse coloration, due to my personal view is appropriate to state.

[beachguy in thongs]

What has it been for you, Psycho, 2 times through the D experience?

So I'm curious as to whether you're finished with trips to the altar or if romance and hope spring eternal and you're still out there wookin' pa nub?

I thought you were asking him if he tried Heroin, twice.

[braddog10]

Hay Beach!

[Miss Green]

Why doesn't he just mind his own business bloody pervet wants to know what you do behind close doors to.why not just concentrate on serious important issues instead of the little issues that don't mean anything.:thumbsup:

[graymatter]

Hay Beach!

Hey, Braddog, I've encountered two types of religious people in my life, those who are spiritual and those consumed by dogma. The latter are controlling and intolerant. I've never had a problem with spiritual folks, they're easy to get along with (and fun to talk to when high); their world is beyond the matters of Caesar.

My point about where Christianity stands on slavery, segregation, and civil/gay rights is that it still stands in the dark ages. If we'd let Christianity (again, every sectarian voice) determine the question of slavery, they'd still be debating it. Fact is, it took some secular minds to move off the question and say "No, slavery isn't really a good thing for humanity."

My problem with God in government is that it is a God of committee, made up of the same minds that made the arbitrary and anal rules for the senior prom in high school... Peace! ;)

[Shelbay]

Secular religion encourages the ways and beliefs that were practiced in the days of Rome..there was no "official religion" of Rome..it was in a way about mutual toleration..except when it came to Christians..which was not tolerated because Christians gave allegiance only to Jesus. the Edict of Milan A.D.313 declared that Christian worship would be allowed for the first time...and what happened to Rome? It seems history does repeat itself. I need to look up the stance on this issue involving the scientologist.

[braddog10]

Hey, Braddog, I've encountered two types of religious people in my life, those who are spiritual and those consumed by dogma. The latter are controlling and intolerant. I've never had a problem with spiritual folks, they're easy to get along with (and fun to talk to when high); their world is beyond the matters of Caesar.

My point about where Christianity stands on slavery, segregation, and civil/gay rights is that it still stands in the dark ages. If we'd let Christianity (again, every sectarian voice) determine the question of slavery, they'd still be debating it. Fact is, it took some secular minds to move off the question and say "No, slavery isn't really a good thing for humanity."

My problem with God in government is that it is a God of committee, made up of the same minds that made the arbitrary and anal rules for the senior prom in high school... Peace! ;)

Hey Gray,

Man, It is always a thrill to engage with you, Genuinely. I must differ with you concerning the secular leadership as it relates to civil rights. Many of the whites that marched with King, were wht men of the cloth, so to speak. I come also from a line of pastors from the Carolinas. Many blacks are name after one of my great great grandfathers Jeramiah Jones. A statue is erected there, on a mountain to honor this man for his righteous beliefs as it applies to his aid to the african american cause, He also suffered greatly from the righteous stand that he held. It was, I believe a very active voice of christians that gave the primary momentum for the very cause.

Abraham Lincoln, made many refences to the fact that they like us should enjoy the same inalienable rights. He knew, that he put himself at great risk for his righteous stand also.

A heart shaped and moved by God, will fall in line with His.

On this forum, I came in, as I realized ~ judgemental. My heart as I became more involved, (hopefully apparent), moved more in alignment with His. God can't steer a parked car. But when we move, adjustments of the wheel, should occur.

We certainly love our loved ones, adjustments of the wheel are just healthy, appologies should be alarge part of the coarse taken.

My personal prejudices, (judgements) involve primarily the ridicule of God that I found here. I have been in many ways in a fish bowl as Pink Floyd would say. It is stupid or at least unrealistic, for me to be suprised that, not everyone believes as I do,..... Sounds like I should shelve my own Narcissism,... so to speak. How I came on initially is counter to Him and certainly ~ Not..His..Heart ~ . The everday people loved Him. Flocked to Him by the thousands. He wasn't shocked by any thing he saw. He was criticized by the religious people of his day.....

Religious people.....My last post about this was hurried and fragmented.

Well, hideness is at the core. I said on another forum that I for a time stopped getting high largly due to wife, personal issues of hiddeness....etc... etc....What I failed to develope was the fact that the freedom that God wants us to live, accept, and enjoy, requires that we must get beyond shame dilussions (rooted in religion) and come out and ~ be where we are ~ In fact a councilor, when I was hung up over cigarettes, suggested that, hiding on my back porch so that my kids wouldn't see me,.... well,.... teaching my kids hiddenness, was worse than the fact that I was smoking.

What I have observed, teaching our kids to be open and unhidden is one of the best blessings that we can give and impart.

When I bought weed in "03". the circumstances of which are irrelevant. I hid nothing from my wife, kids (in their 20's), folks, my Dr., who was facinated by the way. My family now is more open and candid, with far less shame than even many unreligious. Also, by the way, ocassionally, my stash would seem to come up a little short. They can say comfortably, Mom Dad,.... Going to a party,.... there will be drinking,... probably will not be back tonight. Does ANYONE think I would ever give that up? I tell them.... thank you,... thank you....Have a good time and be careful. My daughter was able to address the fact that she had - had sex at 19. I regret, much of my own pushiness as a horney adolescent. Whatever, not the topic.

I know this is long, I tried to be less hurried. I'm still at work, may have to.. all freakin night.....I'm taking the rest of this and part of next week off.

I hope you all, along with myself, can learn more about this sickness of religion, which God Hates ~ Perfectly.... Oh By the way.. Christians don't have corner on the religious market, by the way. Many, as in Plenty, are just as hidden, tremendous need to be right, shamed.....on and on....

My opinions,, But look at what freedom really is, That God desires for us.
Openness, honesty, accepting, free of guilt, shame.

I will find the passages that are absolutely clear, about these points. Give me a few days.

Blessings.

[Bong30]

Why doesn't he just mind his own business bloody pervet wants to know what you do behind close doors to.why not just concentrate on serious important issues instead of the little issues that don't mean anything.:thumbsup:
That was funny.................LOL

"Little Issues".............you kill me.:stoned:

[OniEhtRedrum781]

It's not exactly moral to me, but I don't have anything against gay marriage; to each his own. Bush is an asshole either way.
co-sign

[braddog10]

Hey, Braddog, I've encountered two types of religious people in my life, those who are spiritual and those consumed by dogma. The latter are controlling and intolerant. I've never had a problem with spiritual folks, they're easy to get along with (and fun to talk to when high); their world is beyond the matters of Caesar.

My point about where Christianity stands on slavery, segregation, and civil/gay rights is that it still stands in the dark ages. If we'd let Christianity (again, every sectarian voice) determine the question of slavery, they'd still be debating it. Fact is, it took some secular minds to move off the question and say "No, slavery isn't really a good thing for humanity."

My problem with God in government is that it is a God of committee, made up of the same minds that made the arbitrary and anal rules for the senior prom in high school... Peace! ;)



This God in government deal.... I notice the same beefs the one has is similar to the other, when their opposing party is in office..... If this makes sense. I actually don't see where God pushes his views on anyone. I don't agree with christian politicians, taking liberties that He didn't. Behaviors that are deemed moralities..........It bizarre to consider imposing such. Gays' want to marry?
Whats the big deal? I would suggest civil rather than Christian. If they want tax benefits such as the married? absolutely fine... What pisses me off... Is when they want to come into our schools and teach my kids, using language such as "lifestyle" and "alternative", when basically they are attempting to teach them something of which I strongly disagree. and this is already being done in some states. Text books have already been altered,.........like marriage partner,.It goes on and on... basically ~ De-Sexed.........castrated also comes to mind.

Should this piss us off any less than a religious pinhead trying to shove his S**t down the throat of society? Whats the difference?

I believe I share the view of many, from my genre.

[braddog10]

Hey Gray, Not directed at you.......How is it that you guys can say so much with few words when I draft pages and later note that I didn't addressed the quote?

[graymatter]

This God in government deal.... I notice the same beefs the one has is similar to the other, when their opposing party is in office..... If this makes sense. I actually don't see where God pushes his views on anyone. I don't agree with christian politicians, taking liberties that He didn't. Behaviors that are deemed moralities..........It bizarre to consider imposing such. Gays' want to marry?
Whats the big deal? I would suggest civil rather than Christian. If they want tax benefits such as the married? absolutely fine... What pisses me off... Is when they want to come into our schools and teach my kids, using language such as "lifestyle" and "alternative", when basically they are attempting to teach them something of which I strongly disagree. and this is already being done in some states. Text books have already been altered,.........like marriage partner,.It goes on and on... basically ~ De-Sexed.........castrated also comes to mind.

Should this piss us off any less than a religious pinhead trying to shove his S**t down the throat of society? Whats the difference?

I believe I share the view of many, from my genre.

Hey, Braddog, yes, fair enough point... We've been turning over "that" part of child rearing to the schools for a lot of social economic reasons (i.e., nobody seems to be home long enough to take care of it or tell the school board to stay out of it)... I'm not sure whether my parents cared about that part of the job as much as the schools didn't touch it back then, so they were stuck with it...

[wadejason]

i havent really heard anyone say that they know anyone gay or gay themselves. trying to come from someone that knows, ive been raised by lesbians so this is a touchy subject with me. i cant stand the uptight assholes that dont believe in gay marriage. first of all some states allow "civil union" which doesnt mean shit. my mom and her "gf" cant do their taxes together, and everything they do finacially they have to do seperate from one another because their "marriage" isnt legal.

my question is who the hell cares if two chicks get married. or hell if two guys get married! omg! get over it people. bush is an idiot and does what daddy tells him. i mean have you heard his speeches? everything is a joke and the monkey says um and uh every 4 words. this admendment attempt is just pissing people off. the fact of the matter is bush is finally losing support on his mission to kill camels so he decided he'd do something he promised in 2004 to the bible thumpers (the idiots that got him into office) that he'd defeat those evil gay people.

being raised by gay people ive learned to see how dumb people are. the prejustice i see is radical. people need to grow up and if you see two guys kissing in public, fucking look away if you dont like it! people dont like it when you stare at them anyways.

oh and what about god? first of all bush seems to think adding god to everything will help. and it wont so stop it. and two the bible says nothing to proclaim homosexuality is bad. just chill out and accept it.

[braddog10]

i havent really heard anyone say that they know anyone gay or gay themselves. trying to come from someone that knows, ive been raised by lesbians so this is a touchy subject with me. i cant stand the uptight assholes that dont believe in gay marriage. first of all some states allow "civil union" which doesnt mean shit. my mom and her "gf" cant do their taxes together, and everything they do finacially they have to do seperate from one another because their "marriage" isnt legal.

my question is who the hell cares if two chicks get married. or hell if two guys get married! omg! get over it people. bush is an idiot and does what daddy tells him. i mean have you heard his speeches? everything is a joke and the monkey says um and uh every 4 words. this admendment attempt is just pissing people off. the fact of the matter is bush is finally losing support on his mission to kill camels so he decided he'd do something he promised in 2004 to the bible thumpers (the idiots that got him into office) that he'd defeat those evil gay people.

being raised by gay people ive learned to see how dumb people are. the prejustice i see is radical. people need to grow up and if you see two guys kissing in public, fucking look away if you dont like it! people dont like it when you stare at them anyways.

oh and what about god? first of all bush seems to think adding god to everything will help. and it wont so stop it. and two the bible says nothing to proclaim homosexuality is bad. just chill out and accept it.


This is an awsome venue, Gray, WadeJason I do not know where else I could find such a vast cache of wealth. WadeJason, To hear from you would be rare. I have never met as you said someone with such differences as you and Gray. I do now understand what you mean by radical.

You can see this from an angle I can't.

Let us in on some of these things. I'd like to come back here tomarrow.
Goodnight Guys

[braddog10]

Secular religion encourages the ways and beliefs that were practiced in the days of Rome..there was no "official religion" of Rome..it was in a way about mutual toleration..except when it came to Christians..which was not tolerated because Christians gave allegiance only to Jesus. the Edict of Milan A.D.313 declared that Christian worship would be allowed for the first time...and what happened to Rome? It seems history does repeat itself. I need to look up the stance on this issue involving the scientologist.


Hi Shelbay Girl. I always smile when i see you.

[birdgirl73]

My longest-term best friend is a gay man. We have been friends and playmates since we were literally toddlers, and these days we work at the same company. So I tend to take discrimination against gays in general, and against him and his partner specifically, very personally because it's like someone discriminating against my brother.

I'm very much of the live-and-let-live philosophy. I think that gays and lesbians ought to be afforded exactly the same rights that we straight people have. If we can marry, then they ought to be able to do so, too. To me, it's that simple.

Talk to a loved one who's gay for 5 minutes, and you learn real quickly that they're not gay by choice. Who in the world would choose to be that way? And they can't choose not to be gay any more than any of us straight folks could suddenly choose to stop being heterosexual and switch to the other team. I'm convinced that homosexuality is established either in utero or within the first 18 - 24 months of life before anyone has any control over it. I wish more people could be persuaded of this so they'd stop declaring it as a "wrong" or "sinful" lifestyle choice. IMO, it's neither wrong. Nor sinful. Nor is it a choice.

[Shelbay]

Your saying that a Christian that refuses to condone homosexuality is discriminating birdgirl? OH..And to the op calling people names that don't live the lifestyle of being brought up by lesbians..you call people different from you dumb and assholes..what are you for thinking its okay for your beliefs but not allowing others theirs?

[birdgirl73]

Nope, I tend to think Christians are entitled to their opinions. I mean legal discrimination or job discrimination. Which still happens all the time.

You're up late over there in the next time zone! Actually, you may still be in this Central zone, depending on where in Alabama you are. I can't remember where the time changes.

[Shelbay]

I'll probably go to sleep when daylight hits..insomnia can be a blessing and a curse...especially after traveling. So you and your sister are coming to the Gulf? Hope she is maintaining and improving.

[birdgirl73]

I'll probably go to sleep when daylight hits..insomnia can be a blessing and a curse...especially after traveling. So you and your sister are coming to the Gulf? Hope she is maintaining and improving.
I just looked at a time zone map and learned that the time changes between Alabama and Georgia. So you're in the same time zone we are.

Yep, looks like the whole family is coming down there, and we'll see how my sister feels about making the trip as the time draws nearer. I hope she'll be up to it. I grew up spending summers on the Mississippi gulf coast with my Louisiana grandparents, who had a summer place at Gulfport, but there's no going to Gulfport right now because it's still such a mess. So we were going to go to Gulf Shores, which I love, too. Then two other couples got involved in the plan this past weekend and now it looks like it's going to be Destin. We found a good deal on a condo there. Anywhere along the Gulf is fine with me as long as I can see the ocean. My son informed me today that he wants to bring his girlfriend along and asked me if they could share a room, and so I'm feeling awkward about that. The answer is going to be that she's welcome to come but will need to stay in her own room, but he doesn't yet know that.

Thanks for the kind words about my sister. I wish the outlook were better, but I'm afraid it's not. I'm up late because she's due for another pain shot in another half hour. Once that's done, I'll hit the sack.

[Shelbay]

I think I am going to try reading..we own a condo with a prime view of the Gulf,I think being in an atmosphere like this can be healing in itself..thats why I wondered if your sister had the energy for a trip..anyway I hope she has a restful night and free of some of her pain..you try and rest also..she can feel your energy..you know that right..help her by keeping you healthy.Night birdgirl...oh and I said that about healing because I went into remission after staying 9 months at OG...one more thing..some people are confused about Alabamas time zone because there is one part of the Delta region that is eastern time..yes Alabama is central time..but I have different time zones i set for certain emails..anyway..hope you have a good night.:)

[birdgirl73]

It would be healing for her, I'm sure. I hope she'll feel like coming along. The ocean is just magical, isn't it?

Bless your heart, so you had cancer, too? Or something else that went into remission? Don't worry about answering that; I shouldn't have asked such a personal question. I'm glad it went into remission, whatever it was.

You have a good night, too, sweetie! Take care, and I'm sure I'll talk to you again soon, Shelb. Hope the reading will help you get off to sleep.

[graymatter]

My longest-term best friend is a gay man. We have been friends and playmates since we were literally toddlers, and these days we work at the same company. So I tend to take discrimination against gays in general, and against him and his partner specifically, very personally because it's like someone discriminating against my brother.

I'm very much of the live-and-let-live philosophy. I think that gays and lesbians ought to be afforded exactly the same rights that we straight people have. If we can marry, then they ought to be able to do so, too. To me, it's that simple.

Talk to a loved one who's gay for 5 minutes, and you learn real quickly that they're not gay by choice. Who in the world would choose to be that way? And they can't choose not to be gay any more than any of us straight folks could suddenly choose to stop being heterosexual and switch to the other team. I'm convinced that homosexuality is established either in utero or within the first 18 - 24 months of life before anyone has any control over it. I wish more people could be persuaded of this so they'd stop declaring it as a "wrong" or "sinful" lifestyle choice. IMO, it's neither wrong. Nor sinful. Nor is it a choice.

Hey, Birdgirl, again, you have a knack for making the issue human and personal. It makes you wonder how many people have ice water in their veins... and heads.

An amendment to ban gay marraige is like an amendment to ban photosynthesis (but the environment is a whole 'nother matter).... Peace

[graymatter]

i havent really heard anyone say that they know anyone gay or gay themselves. trying to come from someone that knows, ive been raised by lesbians so this is a touchy subject with me. i cant stand the uptight assholes that dont believe in gay marriage. first of all some states allow "civil union" which doesnt mean shit. my mom and her "gf" cant do their taxes together, and everything they do finacially they have to do seperate from one another because their "marriage" isnt legal.

my question is who the hell cares if two chicks get married. or hell if two guys get married! omg! get over it people. bush is an idiot and does what daddy tells him. i mean have you heard his speeches? everything is a joke and the monkey says um and uh every 4 words. this admendment attempt is just pissing people off. the fact of the matter is bush is finally losing support on his mission to kill camels so he decided he'd do something he promised in 2004 to the bible thumpers (the idiots that got him into office) that he'd defeat those evil gay people.

being raised by gay people ive learned to see how dumb people are. the prejustice i see is radical. people need to grow up and if you see two guys kissing in public, fucking look away if you dont like it! people dont like it when you stare at them anyways.

oh and what about god? first of all bush seems to think adding god to everything will help. and it wont so stop it. and two the bible says nothing to proclaim homosexuality is bad. just chill out and accept it.

OMG - and have you been deprogrammed yet? ;) and you know that the republicans have already captured your family's vote in the Diebold system, right? :D

[Methyl3]

That would be mighty funny and also tragic if it were a literal interpretation of marriage! We'd have an awful lot more married folks out there than we do now. And an awful lot more with whole long lists of husbands and wives. Imagine seeing an old flame at the mall when you were there with your family. "Oh yeah, that was my sixth husband. We were married after a few too many cocktails one night. Hey, Six!"

I thought it was the intercourse that consummated, or officially began, a Christian marriage. And Psycho4Bud's right. It's seven years of living together that consitutes a common-law arrangement and officially opens the season for future palimony lawsuits.

Actually the seven year common-law arrangement is not applicable in all states. Some states as NJ do not have common law marriage.

[Nylo]

It's not exactly moral to me, but I don't have anything against gay marriage; to each his own. Bush is an asshole either way.

I'll second that to the letter.

Spoken like a true badass Towlie would be proud of ^_^

[jamstigator]

Common law is also not valid in Missouri. (The woman and I got curious after we'd been together seven years.)