this is the enemy...

[Bong30]

1 billion muslims. 10% are wahabist..... 100 million people want you dead ................infadel


This is a Saudi textbook. (After the intolerance was removed.)

By Nina Shea
Sunday, May 21, 2006; Page B01

Saudi Arabia's public schools have long been cited for demonizing the West as well as Christians, Jews and other "unbelievers." But after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 -- in which 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis -- that was all supposed to change.

A 2004 Saudi royal study group recognized the need for reform after finding that the kingdom's religious studies curriculum "encourages violence toward others, and misguides the pupils into believing that in order to safeguard their own religion, they must violently repress and even physically eliminate the 'other.' " Since then, the Saudi government has claimed repeatedly that it has revised its educational texts.<<<first step admit problem

In The Post's Outlook Section
Fury on the Right: Bush's Base Betrayal
This is a Saudi textbook. (After the intolerance was removed.

Prince Turki al-Faisal, the Saudi ambassador to the United States, has worked aggressively to spread this message. "The kingdom has reviewed all of its education practices and materials, and has removed any element that is inconsistent with the needs of a modern education," he said on a recent speaking tour to several U.S. cities. "Not only have we eliminated what might be perceived as intolerance from old textbooks that were in our system, we have implemented a comprehensive internal revision and modernization plan." The Saudi government even took out a full-page ad in the New Republic last December to tout its success at "having modernized our school curricula to better prepare our children for the challenges of tomorrow." A year ago, an embassy spokesman declared: "We have reviewed our educational curriculums. We have removed materials that are inciteful or intolerant towards people of other faiths." The embassy is also distributing a 74-page review on curriculum reform to show that the textbooks have been moderated.
The problem is: These claims are not true.

A review of a sample of official Saudi textbooks for Islamic studies used during the current academic year reveals that, despite the Saudi government's statements to the contrary, an ideology of hatred toward Christians and Jews and Muslims who do not follow Wahhabi doctrine remains in this area of the public school system. The texts teach a dualistic vision, dividing the world into true believers of Islam (the "monotheists") and unbelievers (the "polytheists" and "infidels").

This indoctrination begins in a first-grade text and is reinforced and expanded each year, culminating in a 12th-grade text instructing students that their religious obligation includes waging jihad against the infidel to "spread the faith."

Freedom House knows this because Ali al-Ahmed, a Saudi dissident who runs the Washington-based Institute for Gulf Affairs , gave us a dozen of the current, purportedly cleaned-up Saudi Ministry of Education religion textbooks. The copies he obtained were not provided by the government, but by teachers, administrators and families with children in Saudi schools, who slipped them out one by one.

Some of our sources are Shiites and Sunnis from non-Wahhabi traditions -- people condemned as "polytheistic" or "deviant" or "bad" in these texts -- others are simply frustrated that these books do so little to prepare young students for the modern world.

We then had the texts translated separately by two independent, fluent Arabic speakers.

Religion is the foundation of the Saudi state's political ideology; it is also a key area of Saudi education in which students are taught the interpretation of Islam known as Wahhabism (a movement founded 250 years ago by Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab) that is reflected in these textbooks.

Scholars estimate that within the Saudi public school curriculum, Islamic studies make up a quarter to a third of students' weekly classroom hours in lower and middle school, plus several hours each week in high school. Educators who question or dissent from the official interpretation of Islam can face severe reprisals. In November 2005, a Saudi teacher who made positive statements about Jews and the New Testament was fired and sentenced to 750 lashes and a prison term. (He was eventually pardoned after public and international protests.)

The Saudi public school system totals 25,000 schools, educating about 5 million students. In addition, Saudi Arabia runs academies in 19 world capitals, including one outside Washington in Fairfax County, that use some of these same religious texts.Saudi Arabia also distributes its religion texts worldwide to numerous Islamic schools and madrassas that it does not directly operate. Undeterred by Wahhabism's historically fringe status, Saudi Arabia is trying to assert itself as the world's authoritative voice on Islam -- a sort of "Vatican" for Islam, as several Saudi officials have stated-- and these textbooks are integral to this effort. As the report of the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks observed, "Even in affluent countries, Saudi-funded Wahhabi schools are often the only Islamic schools" available.

Education is at the core of the debate over freedom in the Muslim world. Al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden understands this well; in a recent audiotape he railed against those who would "interfere with school curricula."

page 2

The passages below -- drawn from the same set of Saudi texts proudly cited in the new 74-page review of curriculum reform now being distributed by the Saudi Embassy -- are shaping the views of the next generation of Saudis and Muslims worldwide. Unchanged, they will only harden and deepen hatred, intolerance and violence toward other faiths and cultures. Is this what Riyadh calls reform?



FIRST GRADE

" Every religion other than Islam is false."

"Fill in the blanks with the appropriate words (Islam, hellfire): Every religion other than ______________ is false. Whoever dies outside of Islam enters ____________."

FOURTH GRADE

"True belief means . . . that you hate the polytheists and infidels but do not treat them unjustly."

FIFTH GRADE


"Whoever obeys the Prophet and accepts the oneness of God cannot maintain a loyal friendship with those who oppose God and His Prophet, even if they are his closest relatives."

"It is forbidden for a Muslim to be a loyal friend to someone who does not believe in God and His Prophet, or someone who fights the religion of Islam."

"A Muslim, even if he lives far away, is your brother in religion. Someone who opposes God, even if he is your brother by family tie, is your enemy in religion."

SIXTH GRADE


"Just as Muslims were successful in the past when they came together in a sincere endeavor to evict the Christian crusaders from Palestine, so will the Arabs and Muslims emerge victorious, God willing, against the Jews and their allies if they stand together and fight a true jihad for God, for this is within God's power."

EIGHTH GRADE


"As cited in Ibn Abbas: The apes are Jews, the people of the Sabbath; while the swine are the Christians, the infidels of the communion of Jesus."

"God told His Prophet, Muhammad, about the Jews, who learned from parts of God's book [the Torah and the Gospels] that God alone is worthy of worship. Despite this, they espouse falsehood through idol-worship, soothsaying, and sorcery. In doing so, they obey the devil. They prefer the people of falsehood to the people of the truth out of envy and hostility. This earns them condemnation and is a warning to us not to do as they did."

"They are the Jews, whom God has cursed and with whom He is so angry that He will never again be satisfied [with them]."

"Some of the people of the Sabbath were punished by being turned into apes and swine. [/COLOR[COLOR="red"]]<<<<<i never learned that in school. Some of them were made to worship the devil, and not God, through consecration, sacrifice, prayer, appeals for help, and other types of worship. Some of the Jews worship the devil. Likewise, some members of this nation worship the devil, and not God."

"Activity: The student writes a composition on the danger of imitating the infidels."<<<< it was never an asignment of mine.

NINTH GRADE


"The clash between this [Muslim] community (umma) and the Jews and Christians has endured, and it will continue as long as God wills."

"It is part of God's wisdom that the struggle between the Muslim and the Jews should continue until the hour [of judgment]."

"Muslims will triumph because they are right. He who is right is always victorious, even if most people are against him."

TENTH GRADE



The 10th-grade text on jurisprudence teaches that life for non-Muslims (as well as women, and, by implication, slaves) is worth a fraction of that of a "free Muslim male." Blood money is retribution paid to the victim or the victim's heirs for murder or injury:

"Blood money for a free infidel. [Its quantity] is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, whether or not he is 'of the book' or not 'of the book' (such as a pagan, Zoroastrian, etc.).

"Blood money for a woman: Half of the blood money for a man, in accordance with his religion. The blood money for a Muslim woman is half of the blood money for a male Muslim, and the blood money for an infidel woman is half of the blood money for a male infidel."

ELEVENTH GRADE




"The greeting 'Peace be upon you' is specifically for believers. It cannot be said to others."

"If one comes to a place where there is a mixture of Muslims and infidels, one should offer a greeting intended for the Muslims."

"Do not yield to them [Christians and Jews] on a narrow road out of honor and respect."

TWELFTH GRADE



"Jihad in the path of God -- which consists of battling against unbelief, oppression, injustice, and those who perpetrate it -- is the summit of Islam. This religion arose through jihad and through jihad was its banner raised high. It is one of the noblest acts, which brings one closer to God, and one of the most magnificent acts of obedience to God."


Any thoughts?

[Great Spirit 07]

Read my post. lol

You know son, Amerikan nationalism is a very bad thing!

[Psycho4Bud]

Well poser, that didn't last long!

[Bong30]

When I post something they cant handle or spin... they say nothing


there silence is deafening..............


guys its called madrassas...that is the problem.... and bush yes... B/c of our borders.

[Shelbay]

Im just glad I figured out that some Muslims really hate christians..just not sure why yet..I mean the real reason..they really hate us!

[eg420ne]

Its the Neo-cons that hate Americans. They hate you for your freedom. They hate you because of your god given right to own guns. They hate you because their PNAC plan is behind schedule.... No doubt there is radical muslim that would love to cut off your head, but they are not the enemy...The Neo-Cons are the enemy, The PNAC group is your enemy, Zionist(not the jewish people but the movement)is your enemy... Just ask yourself who gains from 911 who got the Patriot act in motion right after 911, whos telling you that spying is good for you it keeps you safe....Now tell me If High Level Pentagon Officials were warn not to fly on 911, then who do you think told them, USAma?

[Shelbay]

Okay..but come on eg..how can you say that the radical muslims that would love to cut off my head are NOT the enemy? They are the enemy..It would be beyond belief to know Nothing is being done to keep that from happening right? The world just changed as we knew it for sure.

[Shelbay]

And I am not sure..but I think President Bush was flying that day:confused:

[eg420ne]

Your right radical muslim are my enemy, as long as they stay over there killing there own brothers the Neo-Cons are here in America...America should deal with America first... These Neo-Cons need to be brought out for there criminal misdeeds, and no democrats wont help....the votes are rigged...diebold anyone...

[eg420ne]

I think if everyone was to smoke some crazy super bud it would bring about world peace in no time

[Bong30]

I think if everyone was to smoke some crazy super bud it would bring about world peace in no time
I try every day EG

i give it the ole college try at least :stoned:

[eg420ne]

I hear you man im trin to grow sum killer bud from the carolinas..

[Bong30]

good luck

[Shelbay]

I hear you man im trin to grow sum killer bud from the carolinas..
Bama buds would do the trick:) Just bragging on the South for a change okay..:p Forgot to add..I don't think anybody would want to kill if they would try chilling for a change..it just seems like there is always wars and dying going on..cutting peoples heads off..thats really scary...now I have a mental image.

[Gumby]

Okay..but come on eg..how can you say that the radical muslims that would love to cut off my head are NOT the enemy? They are the enemy..It would be beyond belief to know Nothing is being done to keep that from happening right? The world just changed as we knew it for sure.


Shelby, radical Muslims hate us for the same reason radical christians hate Muslims. It's a war that has been going on for thousands of years, they only become large and global when both sides have a radical leader in charge. And right now we both do.

This isn't a fight about freedom's or america. It's a fight about Islam and Isreal. (watch kingdom of heaven... it'sa pretty good honesty history and relates to today fairly well.)

But all in all this is only a small battle over religion and only a breif moment in the entire history of the whole thing.

Just look at what Christians have done with that religion. It's the same religion as Islam, but the Church saw that it could have more power than the czars and kings so they took Christianity and ran with it... they built a church, a government within the church, took tithes for money and threated people with hell. It was a tactic that was used and faught about since it was created. The reason there are so many 'branches' of Christianity and so many different beliefs and rituals under the same religion.

Muslim have a more fundemental and greater understanding of Islam and Christianity as they were created and meant for... they are fighting for the return of thier land and for the death of the Church... it is why they call bush a Zionist, it is why they believe in Jihad, it is why they are Muslim.... just learn their religion and you will see and understand why they hate amerika....

I'll just point out a few of the smaller things Amerika has done to religion (not that they created it, but the way they have destroyed it's meaning)

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_10co.htm

"Only 68 of 200 Anglican priests polled could name all Ten Commandments, but half said they believed in space aliens."

This is just the ten commandments... I'll just use these right now to point out a few of them... but these are the fundementals of the religion, yet the majority of the followers/believers don't know or follow them.... (all from Exodous 2-17)

"4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:"

Why America is not allowed to show images of Islamic profits on tv, but Amerika has pictures of Jesus everywhere, Amerika wears crosses and other idols... We believe in a god the is human and looks like a white american person... I mean how fucking stupid is that in itself.... I wanna kill all christians because they are too stupid to think that a white person came out of Egypt 2000 years ago...

"5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments."

Which means, we shouldn't give power to our leader and believe that he is devine and has the power to do as he wishes. UMM wake the fuck up that's what bush thinks and ameirka is bowing down to him giving him unpresidented power... that's the reason our fathers used the seperation of church and state and why the word God is not in our consitution.

"8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Do I even need to talk about this one?? it's pretty easy to understand... and when was the last time this country took a day to praise God? Should be every Saturday, all day... not one hour on sunday... that's a fucking joke... and it doesn't mean go to a church and pay them money to remove your sins... it means sit on your ass and be thankful you are alive and love god and your neighbor...

"2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me."

When Amerika pays more attention to a TV show called American Idol than they do about the real and only Idol... I want to blow it up... I can't imagine how they feel... I mean just look at this country comparied to the world and we look like shit heads... it's a joke... and it's a joke Amerika hate Islam and has no idea that it's thier own ignorance that is causing it... kinda like the Nazi's in Germany huh??

If you need more please just let me know... I am sure I could write a book abuot how Amerika has ruined Christ and his teachings...

[Shelbay]

You want to blow America up because people watch American Idol? And you talked about keeping the Sabbath Holy..well at least with my God he is 24-7..I don't have appointed times to pray to him or in a certain direction..and also compared to other countries we DO NOT look like shitheads..sorry I don't agree with your viewpoint on christians and America..seems you make many excuses for Islam and Muslims but continue to crucify Americans as a whole..just how I read it. And no I do not compare christianity to what Nazis did to jews and almost world domination..Americans are not Nazis.:thumbsup:

[Gumby]

I don't hate america i hate amerika... there is a difference, one that you don't understand.

there is a complete seperation when I talk about the idiots that watch american idol... they are amerika... our government is amerika...

I believe in america the way it was foudned and set up, to be free from opression and the church. I only hate amerika and relate it to Nazi Germany because it is like that with Christianity / Republican party... it was bought by a few far right wing douche bags and changed the country into a blind ignorant country. Our president is fighting a war over Islam, the main example of who blind amerika is to the facts and history of war. that is why I hate them, not becaues of what they believe but because they believe they are the rightous. and god loves them...

God loves Muslims as much as he loves christians, something not shown by amerika.

look into the real history of christianity, look at who was in charge of it for the last 200 years... learn as much as you can about it. then you will see it is the Nazi party. It is why we have faught wars for the last 2000 years... and it is why we have a dictator leading our country... it's not an oponion it's a matter of history and facts and it's all thier... it's the fact that amerika is too blind and ignorant to see it that kills me...

By the way I said I want to kill them I can't imagine what Muslims do... how would you feel if someone took your God, your Beliefs and your religion and claimed it as theirs... then used it to gain global power and kill you... would you be very happy...

just look at the history of the last 200o years... this isn't the first time nor the last time this has happened... it's nothing new... when people ask, 'how did the Crusaders kill all those people?' or 'How did they let the Nazi kill all those people?" just remember it is the same reason... was the same reason and will be the same reason... and when people ask why did amerikans kill so many people, the answer will still be the same... it's just sad that you're an american and don't see the answer...

amerika refers to Abbie Hoffman by the way... 'steal this book' <--- i'd recomend it...

I am an american and proud to be one...I hate amerika and will die before I believe in it...

[Shelbay]

Gumby..Okay,now I understand the difference in America and Amerika..and thank you for being respectful and taking the time to actually read my post and replying in a way I did get it. God loves everyone..yes I agree..but the muslims also attempt to portray all christians as a group and disrespect our beliefs..true? Because of our Government? I see Gods name taken in vain alot more than I see Allahs..anyway though..I am going to do some reading tonight..I have a passion for history..mainly WWII,I have a book I bought from Missionaries "the Pilgrims Progress" that I think will be good. And is it not true that its not just America with problems..every country is run by politics..and Government...but you don't hate ALL Americans right?

[GreenKing11]

The radical muslims aren't the one taking our freedoms away and turning America into a police state. And they're not the ones who attacked us. I believe there are many muslims that hate America, but definitely not the majority. If these people actually pose a threat to us or attack us they should be dealt with. But once again, they havent attacked us.

[Bong30]

The radical muslims aren't the one taking our freedoms away and turning America into a police state. And they're not the ones who attacked us. I believe there are many muslims that hate America, but definitely not the majority. If these people actually pose a threat to us or attack us they should be dealt with. But once again, they havent attacked us.
imo your as dumb as dirt..........

if you can do math, look at my first post.....10% are wahabist (ill let you google it)

10% of 1 billion is 100 million........90% are good, god fearing people.

thanks for making my point for me.....


what about the 100 million though?

[Shelbay]

They have attacked us though..9-11? The world Trade Centers? Calling Allah to the end right?

[eg420ne]

They have attacked us though..9-11? The world Trade Centers? Calling Allah to the end right?
I havent seen any evidence that supports that theory, only towards an inside job---Like this one-Which terrorist warn High Level Pentagon Officials not to fly on 911>>>>>>>>>>>>>>And why did they not warn every american that they knew about an imminent attack, they got warnings and ignored them, even going so far as to lie about receiving warnings.....

[halo]

That is true and utter propaganda. They are teaching children to hate. That is so sad.

[GreenKing11]

There are still people who believe that amateur muslim terrorists attacked us on 9/11? Did they put the dynamite under the trade centers also?

[Shelbay]

Yes I believe terrorists attacked New York..and I also believe our Government was caught off guard which should not have happened..my viewpoint. There were warnings that should have been caught at Pearl harbor....just like 9-11..but to me it does not make it a conspiracy on our Governments part..Terrorists saw a chance and they took it..pieces of scum..murderers.But mistakes were made then..now..and of course the future..history does repeat itself...and no this does not mean I agree with everything that is happening with our country either.

[eg420ne]

Yeah terrorist in the name of PNAC-----Rebuilding Americas Defenses http://newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

http://www.americanfreepress.net/12_24_02/America_Pearl_Harbored/america_pearl_harbored.html
The huge increases in U.S. military spending that have occurred since the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, were planned before President George W. Bush was elected by the same men who are pushing the administrationâ??s â??war on terrorismâ?� and the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Billions of dollars in additional defense spending are but the first step in the groupâ??s long-term plan to transform the U.S. military into a global army enforcing a terroristic and bloody Pax Americana around the world.

A neo-conservative Washington-based organization known as the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), funded by three foundations closely tied to Persian Gulf oil and weapons and defense industries, drafted the war plan for U.S. global domination through military power.

One of the organizationâ??s documents clearly shows that Bush and his most senior cabinet members had already planned an attack on Iraq before he took power in January 2001.

The groupâ??s essential demand was for hefty increases in defense spending. â??We need to increase defense spending significantly if we are to carry out our global responsibilities today and modernize our armed forces for the future,â?� the statementâ??s first principle reads.

The increase in defense spending is to bring about two of the other principles: â??to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and valuesâ?� and â??to accept responsibility for Americaâ??s unique role in preserving and extending an international order friendly to our security, our prosperity, and our principles.â?�

A subsequent PNAC plan entitled â??Rebuilding Americaâ??s Defenses: Strategies, Forces and Resources for a New Century,â?� reveals that the current members of Bushâ??s cabinet had already planned, before the 2000 presidential election, to take military control of the Gulf region whether Saddam Hussein is in power or not.

The 90-page PNAC document from September 2000 says: â??The United States has for decades sought to play a more permanent role in Gulf regional security. While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.â?�

â??Even should Saddam pass from the scene,â?� the plan says U.S. military bases in Saudi Arabia and Kuwait will remain, despite domestic opposition in the Gulf states to the permanent stationing of U.S. troops. Iran, it says, â??may well prove as large a threat to U.S. interests as Iraq has.â?�

A â??core missionâ?� for the transformed U.S. military is to â??fight and decisively win multiple, simultaneous major theater wars,â?� according to the PNAC.

The strategic â??transformationâ?� of the U.S. military into an imperialistic force of global domination would require a huge increase in defense spending to â??a minimum level of 3.5 to 3.8 percent of gross domestic product, adding $15 billion to $20 billion to total defense spending annually,â?� the PNAC plan said.

â??The process of transformation,â?� the plan said, â??is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing eventâ??like a new Pearl Harbor.â?�

American Free Press asked Christopher Maletz, assistant director of the PNAC about what was meant by the need for â??a new Pearl Harbor.â?�

â??They needed more money to up the defense budget for raises, new arms, and future capabilities,â?� Maletz said. â??Without some disaster or catastrophic eventâ?� neither the politicians nor the military would have approved, Maletz said.

[Torog]

I don't hate america i hate amerika... there is a difference, one that you don't understand.

there is a complete seperation when I talk about the idiots that watch american idol... they are amerika... our government is amerika...

I believe in america the way it was foudned and set up, to be free from opression and the church. I only hate amerika and relate it to Nazi Germany because it is like that with Christianity / Republican party... it was bought by a few far right wing douche bags and changed the country into a blind ignorant country. Our president is fighting a war over Islam, the main example of who blind amerika is to the facts and history of war. that is why I hate them, not becaues of what they believe but because they believe they are the rightous. and god loves them...

God loves Muslims as much as he loves christians, something not shown by amerika.

look into the real history of christianity, look at who was in charge of it for the last 200 years... learn as much as you can about it. then you will see it is the Nazi party. It is why we have faught wars for the last 2000 years... and it is why we have a dictator leading our country... it's not an oponion it's a matter of history and facts and it's all thier... it's the fact that amerika is too blind and ignorant to see it that kills me...

By the way I said I want to kill them I can't imagine what Muslims do... how would you feel if someone took your God, your Beliefs and your religion and claimed it as theirs... then used it to gain global power and kill you... would you be very happy...

just look at the history of the last 200o years... this isn't the first time nor the last time this has happened... it's nothing new... when people ask, 'how did the Crusaders kill all those people?' or 'How did they let the Nazi kill all those people?" just remember it is the same reason... was the same reason and will be the same reason... and when people ask why did amerikans kill so many people, the answer will still be the same... it's just sad that you're an american and don't see the answer...

amerika refers to Abbie Hoffman by the way... 'steal this book' <--- i'd recomend it...

I am an american and proud to be one...I hate amerika and will die before I believe in it...

Howdy Gumby,

After reading this reply of your's and a couple of others,I see a pattern..when referring to muslims you capitalize it,same as ya do for the nazi's,you also capitalize God,when in context with muslims and not when in context with Christians. You slipped up when ya said "Christian/Republican party".

You appear to be a hateriot..dedicated to the hatred of America and a sympathizer with the muslim-jihadists and nazi's. You say that we should "read some history"..you should take that advice too..because if you did-you'd know that the muslim-arabs,worked with hitler to eliminate Jews..and now they are heading down the same path..with you prancing happily along side them.

I live with Americans,I know Americans,I worked with Americans..you are no American.

Have a good one ...

[Bong30]

Howdy Gumby,

After reading this reply of your's and a couple of others,I see a pattern..when referring to muslims you capitalize it,same as ya do for the nazi's,you also capitalize God,when in context with muslims and not when in context with Christians. You slipped up when ya said "Christian/Republican party".

You appear to be a hateriot..dedicated to the hatred of America and a sympathizer with the muslim-jihadists and nazi's. You say that we should "read some history"..you should take that advice too..because if you did-you'd know that the muslim-arabs,worked with hitler to eliminate Jews..and now they are heading down the same path..with you prancing happily along side them.

I live with Americans,I know Americans,I worked with Americans..you are no American.

Have a good one ...
Torog,
you are so right just be glad that most americans are like you and I, and not like Gumby and crew.

[Shelbay]

Thanks for leaving me out Bong..I may not be just like you and Torog but I am a Christian and I love America..you should have included me on that one..I am not part of any crew so why was I left out on your post?

[Bong30]

sorry i didnt mean to. your one of my favs

Lets start with voting all incumbents out?

then when we get the real americans like me, P4b, torog, shelabay, in there we will clean house. (in other thread)

[Shelbay]

I saw it..can you believe my confession of ignorance for the day is..I did not know muslims/arabs helped hitler murder Jews? I know,I know..I know alot of history but finding out its selective history..thanks Torog for that info..now I have a rebuttal based on fact concerning this part.

[Gumby]

Howdy Gumby,

After reading this reply of your's and a couple of others,I see a pattern..when referring to muslims you capitalize it,same as ya do for the nazi's,you also capitalize God,when in context with muslims and not when in context with Christians. You slipped up when ya said "Christian/Republican party".

You appear to be a hateriot..dedicated to the hatred of America and a sympathizer with the muslim-jihadists and nazi's. You say that we should "read some history"..you should take that advice too..because if you did-you'd know that the muslim-arabs,worked with hitler to eliminate Jews..and now they are heading down the same path..with you prancing happily along side them.

I live with Americans,I know Americans,I worked with Americans..you are no American.

Have a good one ...


if you knew anything about being a true christain and what the religion really stands for and means you wouldn't have put a picture of a cross right under what you said...

Exodus 20:
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:


fuck reading history, why not trying to read the Ten Commandments first... your too busy thinking of how to defend your faith and your beliefs to educate yourself more about them. I consider my self Christian and I am not Muslim... I however think the Church is a lie and a joke, amerikan christians are the same as well... you're too busy reading your 4 gospels and paying all your money to your church so that you can hang out with a white jesus in heaven.

My Jesus, the one that was alive 2000 years ago, didn't believe in a church. I follow his teachings and live my life the way he would want... Not thinking that god wants me to live the way I do.

The fatal flaw that allows you to keep thinking the church and 4 gospel bible are telling you the same thing is that they have made you to believe that You can trust in God, and that God Blessed America, and that Jesus loves you...

you shouldn't trust in god and blindly think that god is on your side... that's called ignorance... you should live your life in a matter in which God could trust you...

God didn't bless america either... more ignorance than thinking he trusts us... America was founded on a freedom of religion for a reason, here is where you can look into history... this country wasn't founded under god...

Jesus has no idea who you are... he's dead and has been for a while... God isn't a man and he's not sitting up in heaven taking notes of your life... he doesn't care what words I am typing right now or what I am saying... cause we as Humans don't have the capacity to understand Heaven or God. Jesus did, and he tried to share that message. I follow Jesus' message and his way of life.. you can keep thinking that the church is correct and that amerika is rightous... I don't care, but just stop thinking because I do not like the church or amerika that I do not God, Jesus, Christians, Muslims, America...

there is a difference you are just to blind or ignorant to see it... I don't bash you or call you names because you don't believe what I do... I am hoping none of these comments are being taken personally, if they are maybe you shouldn't think I'm attacking you but should think that there reasons why I think Jesus isn't white and there shouldn't be crosses and crucifixes everywhere, it's Nazi tactics... Bush uses the same things... I'm not comparing them are partys or who they grouped with or who they killed...

the spark for 75% of the wars for the past 2000 years have been religion. There is a global war going on the US - Iraq war is just a small battle where two leaders find reason to go to war. The background and main underlying of the war however is Religion... and amerika is too ignorant to see that cause 'god loves amerika' and it's 'god's will'

watch kingdom of heaven... it spells it out in a nice neat movie... where no political pundints saying anything... look at your history, find out the past 2000 years of religion... it's all there...

By the way the Evolution debate is an easy way to see how ignorant christians can be...

I do hate christians the ones who think god shat out everything and was all done... the ignorant ones who think Noah put 2 of everything on a little boat... yes I hate you... you're ignorant and not christian... you are taking my God and Religion and whipping your ass with it... it's disgraceful in the least and it's the mere fact that you are only too ignorant to believe something else that you cannot and will not change you mind.

[Shelbay]

I was raised hardcore Southern Baptist and thought I would be struck dead on the spot for many sins as a child but never once were we taught that Jesus is white..we were told that he was olive skinned..some even said dark skin..Born and raised right here in Alabama and can say for a fact we were never taught he was white..We were mainly taught that he loved us all and that is why he died for our sins..for us..so yes Jesus does know me..he knew us before we formed in the womb. And I am not taking your post personally..I actually have time and am able to focus well this morning so I actually comprehended your entie post..its just after reading your post I felt I needed to share because I didn't take it personal but no I didn't like it..but thats your right and I respect that.

[Gumby]

we shouldn't even know what Jesus looked like... we shouldn't want or need to know... we should want to know his name, his history, and his teachings...

Images of Jesus and God are a sin...

I know you may not think he was white, but like I said it wasn't meant to be personal... I just don't understand, and maybe you could help me on this end, when the church (anyone's christian church) preaches something that is flawed from history, science and logic in one teaching or another could contine to believe the rest blindly, or with 'faith'??

I guess what I'm asking is while I was young and reading the bible it didn't make sense and I had questions, evolution, dinosaurs, noah, helocentricity, history, oximorons, and logical fallices thoughout the bible I was told I was 'too smart' for religion... That blew my lid and since then just studied about religion and tried to do so with an open mind. I wasn't an atheist but I had no faith in god as I knew him... and I couldn't/didn't find faith and religion until I realzied that the church in it's self is a lie and so are it's teachings... to find to religion and faith you can't go to a church and be taught... you have to go out and find it yourself... I mean I have learned more about religion and God outside the church than inside and I just want to know why people keep thinking that they are closer to god in a church and yb a preacher... whrere does that belief and faith come from?? Why do you believe in that??

[Bong30]

We are not talking about mohaamad...... we are talking about Jesus



if you are to smart for religion....id rather be dumb....

[Gumby]

Exodus 20:
2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
13 Thou shalt not kill.
14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
15 Thou shalt not steal.
16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

that's in the bible... the one that talks about Jesus... they are the same religion... they are all based on the same beliefs...

[Bong30]

im going to hell and you are all coming with me...............

[Torog]

I was raised hardcore Southern Baptist and thought I would be struck dead on the spot for many sins as a child but never once were we taught that Jesus is white..we were told that he was olive skinned..some even said dark skin..Born and raised right here in Alabama and can say for a fact we were never taught he was white..We were mainly taught that he loved us all and that is why he died for our sins..for us..so yes Jesus does know me..he knew us before we formed in the womb. And I am not taking your post personally..I actually have time and am able to focus well this morning so I actually comprehended your entie post..its just after reading your post I felt I needed to share because I didn't take it personal but no I didn't like it..but thats your right and I respect that.

Howdy Shelbay,

I hear ya..I was raised up in the Church of Christ,the conservative one..and I don't think that we ever made the color of Jesus's skin,an issue.

As for Gumby,I have the feeling that I'm talking to a youngun,who ain't even had children yet..have ya got any children ? I just have one,and she turned 26,not long ago and she is the greatest blessing :)

I just have a hard time,taking anyone serious,who has had no children or is under 30...lol. I'll be 47 in July and I do feel the generation gap,I tell you what ! lol

Have a good one ! :thumbsup:

[Gumby]

i'm glad that you judge people but not what they know or how they think by by their age...

that's not ignorance at all... and damn to think that christians were ignorant, man I'm sorry... fuck off... you guys are taking the White Jesus thing and running with it, I gave at least 10 diffferent ideas that the Church is a lie... and the only thing you people can say is I never learned jesus was white and your not old enough to argue religion...

that's horrible and I can see how ignorance plays a large part in your life and your ideas... it is really sad...

it is why I hate the chruch and why I think amerikan christians are a fucking joke and ruining the world... and if you don't even notice it from the dribble that you fucks are posting agian and again I have no idea how to tell you that you are stupid any other way....

"To know what you prefer instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive. "

- Robert Louis Stevenson (1850 - 1895)

[Shelbay]

Hey Gumby..I tried respecting you and your beliefs but its obvious you don'y know the meaning of that word..anymore than you know me or my religion okay..so concerning your "f**k off"..we are stupid and other words you choose to describe people you don't have a clue about and no money to buy any..why don't we just take this to the religion forum? Then I will debate you on religion..just for you! Stupidity as you call it does not merge with a persons religion and beliefs..your full of hate..thats your burden okay..but I assure you..my belief in God is not a threat to you so why even keep on with calling me stupid etc for what I believe..that is a censorship attitude at its best..my word for you would be hypocritical..try being like Breukelen..he doesn't make his beliefs personal..he just makes his way known. And about the white Jesus issue..YOU brought that into the convo..and seeing as Jesus was a Jew..makes me wonder about you and your real hate..not being mean..but you really hate America and anyone that is not like you..that is imo leaning more toward nazi practice than my belief in my God would ever be. When you want to take it to the religion forum..give me 24 hour notice with a date and time and we will continue this..if you have it in you? I usually make a point not to do that to keep from being labeled as trying to force my beliefs on non believers but seeing as you can hold your own lets take this to religion..you have the right to be a non believer and I have the right to defend and offend if need be okay. And the humble part..I have no problem being humble..what is it to you or Robert Louis Stevenson what makes my life full? If Jesus and God do it for me..what is your problem with it?? Through with this issue on this thread.:smokin:

[Shelbay]

Howdy Shelbay,

I hear ya..I was raised up in the Church of Christ,the conservative one..and I don't think that we ever made the color of Jesus's skin,an issue.

As for Gumby,I have the feeling that I'm talking to a youngun,who ain't even had children yet..have ya got any children ? I just have one,and she turned 26,not long ago and she is the greatest blessing :)

I just have a hard time,taking anyone serious,who has had no children or is under 30...lol. I'll be 47 in July and I do feel the generation gap,I tell you what ! lol

Have a good one ! :thumbsup:
Howdy Torog..Yes I have a daughter..she will be 20 next month..I am 41. The generation gap is alive and well..things are better here on CC now but for awhile I couldn't even post 2 words without being attacked..I have been called so many disgusting names here on this board it is unreal that I stuck it out this long..I came to this board to learn..meet people like me that enjoy the plant because I can't do it here at home and this place has more hate (or did) than anything I saw in real life,and yes even prison..in there at least I had respect..and no one dared to attack anyones religion..it just gets hurtful seeing him shrugged off and blamed for all our problems when he died for us..I just assumed when I showed respect to non believers I would get that back..just tired of really trying to learn something about politics and it turns into an attack on religion with gumby..its about respect! Young adults want to blame President Bush,religion,neighbors,parents etc..they need to take a long hard look in the mirror and learn to deal with self first..the way they talk..what is that crap?? Do they seriously believe they will advance and better things for America when they can't even fill a job application out properly..sheesh..sorry about the rant..I need to chill..and I do hope you have a great weekend...strange we both have only one child..and "girls" at that lol..makes you protective huh? LOL:thumbsup:

[Gumby]

shelbay, I don't care what you believe.. I'm pretty sure I've said that before.. and if you do respect what I believe then you shouldn't get offended for Fuck, Shit, Piss, Cunt, Mother Fucker...

You getting offened by that is the same as when I get offended by the remarks you make. It's just a difference of belief and I respect yours... The problem I find with most christians is they cannot defend what they believe... they are told to believe soemthing and if they don't they go to hell..

I would love to talk religion with you, I don't think you know what I believe or what God I believe in... as I don't you, which is why I didn't want this to get personal. But I will be more that happy to have and educated debate on the topic in the other forum..

Shelbay, I have no problem talking with you and think you have a very open mind. I really don't think about you when I go off on rants and call people ignorant.. those are mostly for Bong, although I'm done talking to him now, and Torog.

the only reasons/excuses they gave were I wasn't old enough to know what to believe, and that is ignorance. that does piss me off... and I do want to say fuck off.. that's not hatred, not me not liking them as a person... it's only my oponion on their beliefs and if I should talk to them about mine... If I'm too young to believe in something and share it, and too young to realize that the Church is a lie, then I don't want to talk to you about what I believe... it just shows me that they are ignorant and no matter what or why I believe what I do it's going to be wrong...


I also think you misread the quote, it's not about being humble, (offline I'm much more humble than you would image) it's about knowing what you think and believe in life, rather than having people tell you what you ought to believe. Nothing I say or type should have any effect, and I hope it desn't, on what you believe until you undertand and know why I believe it and why/how you could believe it..

i'll start one over in the other forum if you want to talk about religion, but like you it's not something I like talking about too much, because mostly it ends up like my other threads, but I do believe you and I could have an open honest talk about what each of us believe... I just hope you understand that the offensive language I used isn't meant personally to you or anyone else.

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself."

Sir Richard Francis Burton (1821 - 1890)

"Science may have found a cure for most evils; but it has found no remedy for the worst of them all - the apathy of human beings."

Helen Keller (1880 - 1968), My Religion, 1927

"The world is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion."

Thomas Paine (1737 - 1809)

"It is a fine thing to establish one's own religion in one's heart, not to be dependent on tradition and second-hand ideals. Life will seem to you, later, not a lesser, but a greater thing."

D. H. Lawrence (1885 - 1930)

[eg420ne]

Ignorance is bliss Gumby, some dont want to know some will never know, you cant change the minds of the people who think they are right. Well i dont know what im saying I just wanted to post, but good luck proving anything to people who still believe the Government Official Lie of the events of 911:thumbsup: that sounded mean, my bad i'll blame it on jose



Proverbs-14.15-The innocent believeth every word: the discreet man considereth his steps

eccles-5.14-If thou have understanding, answer thy neighbour: but if not, let thy hand be upon thy mouth, lest thou be surprised in an unskilful word, and be confounded

Eccles:13.14 Affect not to speak with him as an equal: and believe not his many words:for by much talk he will sift thee, and smiling will examine thee concerning thy secrets.

[Shelbay]

Okay Gumby fair enough..when and what time next week is good for you? Or tonight we could start but I am cooking about 10 hours a day now until after Tuesday..I would like to have more than a few minutes at a time to post..so after that please let me know whats good for you and lets do it.:) Just one thing..please refrain from the c word on our thread or I will not participate..that IS an offensive,degrading word to me and I would appreciate your restraint just on the religion thread okay? I hate that word..yes I do..hate it. I think I might like this..finally an issue I have input on and not having to ask so many questions. Thanks Gumby..and I will be checking for your reply..any requests from you?:)

[Breukelen advocaat]

I just have a hard time,taking anyone serious,who has had no children or is under 30...
Have a good one ! :thumbsup:

Nice to know that reproduction is considered by some to be a prerequisite for intelligence. I guess that cockroaches must be genius' - they spawn thousands of â??childrenâ?�. :dance:

[Torog]

Howdy Gumby,

The reason that I bring age and whether one has had a child yet,into question,is because until you have a child,there's a whole side of Life,that you haven't experienced. My gal said to me just the other day,that she reckons that because she's never had a child,that she's never had to grow up.

You mentioned something about humility,I think that you are confusing humility with self-loathing and not gittin what ya want. Denying yerself,some of the wants that you have-is not humility. True humility,is best gained through the 'death ' of ego..and by way of being 'humbled'..have you ever been humbled ? I have--many times..and I have learned much about Life,because of it. For instance,I've lived on the street a couple,three times..and I've lost everything that I owned,several times..after awhile,you at least come to understand-that material possesions mean nothing,that un-conditional love and serving others less fortunate or able,is what truly matters.

Have a good one ...

[Gumby]

Okay Gumby fair enough..when and what time next week is good for you? Or tonight we could start but I am cooking about 10 hours a day now until after Tuesday..I would like to have more than a few minutes at a time to post..so after that please let me know whats good for you and lets do it.:) Just one thing..please refrain from the c word on our thread or I will not participate..that IS an offensive,degrading word to me and I would appreciate your restraint just on the religion thread okay? I hate that word..yes I do..hate it. I think I might like this..finally an issue I have input on and not having to ask so many questions. Thanks Gumby..and I will be checking for your reply..any requests from you?:)

ok, shelbay, it's there... promise no c words... but i must say it was just from the Carlin line of jokes... the 7 words you can't say on tv... it's very very funny and was the reason I was using it, not meaning to call anyone out by it....


I don't knonw what may offend you, I have a good feeling our standards of offensive material is a bit different...so please just let me know if I cross the line and I'll stop it... I don't think it will get out of hand over there, and will keep it more of an educated debate, rather than a rant....

thanks for taking the time to explain yourself and try to communicate with me about this... it is why I consider you having an open mind and not like the others... I have a good feeling we may get into a great discussion and I just hope that you and I can talk about this in a civil matter... best wishes and I'll keep an eye out for it...

ps... what are you cooking?? 10 hours is a bit much, no? I went to college for 'cooking' you could say... it is my passion and the thing I love most... but 10 hours a day is a lot... have fun though...

[Gumby]

Howdy Gumby,

The reason that I bring age and whether one has had a child yet,into question,is because until you have a child,there's a whole side of Life,that you haven't experienced. My gal said to me just the other day,that she reckons that because she's never had a child,that she's never had to grow up.

You mentioned something about humility,I think that you are confusing humility with self-loathing and not gittin what ya want. Denying yerself,some of the wants that you have-is not humility. True humility,is best gained through the 'death ' of ego..and by way of being 'humbled'..have you ever been humbled ? I have--many times..and I have learned much about Life,because of it. For instance,I've lived on the street a couple,three times..and I've lost everything that I owned,several times..after awhile,you at least come to understand-that material possesions mean nothing,that un-conditional love and serving others less fortunate or able,is what truly matters.

Have a good one ...



I was humbled with my fathers death... I got to change his diapers and wipe his ass for the last months of his life... I got to pick him up out of bed and put him in his wheelchair so he could eat, then put him back in his bed... I saw him knocked up on so many drugs that he hadn't a clue who I was... I got to hear my grandmother and mother fight over him whlie he was dying... I wasn't old enough to ever drink a beer with my father... Is it being humbled, maybe not in your book... but in mine it's enough...

after awhile,you at least come to understand-that material possesions mean nothing,that un-conditional love and serving others less fortunate or able,is what truly matters.

I don't care about material things, and to me money is a fucking joke... but that is why I am soo pissed and hate the church. It is why I believe amerikans are ignorant along with christians... because they do not understand that statment... they mix unconditional love with blind following, and serving others less fortunate, only if they are less fortunate than you are...

amerikans, like yourself, only judge people in relationship to themselves... Where I'd rather hear what a 5 year old thought of God than a 55 year old. You see I was a magician for a while and the best thing I discovered doing magic is that childeren aren't fooled as welll as adults. You can do the best magic tricks in the world to kids and they wouldn't have a clue what you were doing... their brians don't work like adults... whereas I could fool any adult, adults are too reliant on previous experiences to notice the small differences because they already have thier minds made up of the outcome...

And I can only think the same applies here... You read what I started with about your religion and didn't take in the small differences I noted... yuo weren't particular about the details... not until it came to how it related to your own life... you didn't pay attention to the small details and complaints I have about religion... you saw the begining and quickly went to the end again, without realizing what was happening in the middle...

You and I both believe in the same ideas, love not hate - peace not war...
I think moat rational people are the same... it's the sad fact that amerika and christians are too ignorant to think that someone who doesn't believe in what they do could also be right that is ruining this world and why I am so pissed... I'd just suggest taking more time to read the small details and understand what goes on in the grey area... don't rely on the begining and end so much and have fun in purgatory..

[Shelbay]

ok, shelbay, it's there... promise no c words... but i must say it was just from the Carlin line of jokes... the 7 words you can't say on tv... it's very very funny and was the reason I was using it, not meaning to call anyone out by it....


I don't knonw what may offend you, I have a good feeling our standards of offensive material is a bit different...so please just let me know if I cross the line and I'll stop it... I don't think it will get out of hand over there, and will keep it more of an educated debate, rather than a rant....

thanks for taking the time to explain yourself and try to communicate with me about this... it is why I consider you having an open mind and not like the others... I have a good feeling we may get into a great discussion and I just hope that you and I can talk about this in a civil matter... best wishes and I'll keep an eye out for it...

ps... what are you cooking?? 10 hours is a bit much, no? I went to college for 'cooking' you could say... it is my passion and the thing I love most... but 10 hours a day is a lot... have fun though...
Hi Gumby..Thanks for the reply..I usually don't have a reason to cook much but it is a passion for me also:thumbsup: I got interested in adjusting my favorite recipes to totally sugar free a few years ago..I love Splenda..no matter what naysayers say on that one...and people seem more peaceful and content when their blood sugar is stable and a full stomach haha. I just finished reading this thread again and I remembered what I wanted to ask..Who iyo should be put into Office next election for President? I asked that on another thread but didn't get any replies? I listen to people everywhere divided in this Country now and I ask some of them..Who? Who else? What are the choices?

[graymatter]

Comon, it's a holiday... you should hug now and smoke a virtual fatty :D

[Gumby]

my idea of a change isn't to get a new figure head in office... my 'idea' of change is a whole new way of life... much like the Republicans had a goal in 94 to change america as a whole and not just put someone in office... I think america needs to forget about Regan's theories, they were bush sr.'s anyways...

I think america needs to learn from the people we stole this land from... we need to have state leaders with just as much power as the president... we need to forget about corparations all together... we need to stop thinking that it should be someone's life goal to go to school and get a job.

We need a massive education change in america as well as an idology of how we as humans act... so until that in itself changes, I don't really care who is the puppet in office..

but, to give you a name or two... I like the things Durbin has said in the past few months... I think he cares about the earth, which is a major plus... Finegold, would be my other choice... they both have good positions and stnd for something...


I think instead of america waiting for a great leader to come along, eg. get off the Kennedy dream, they need to realize that each individual is as powerful as the president... then and only then will I care who is in office... right now the only people I see wanting to claim the seat are people with enough money to buy it... and who only want to make more money while they are sitting in it..


We need to become america as it was founded with seperation of powers at every level... state powers equal federal power... that's the only reason the consititution was signed and passed... not so that we would have a president who ran the country and 'decided' what was best, but that each person no matter where or how small a voice is heard... that's what I want...


ps. I'm one of those naysayers about Splenda, but I'll save that arguement for another time... I did learn alot about fake sugar while in college though... i was taking my nutrition and dietetics classes during the Zero Carb Craze...

[Torog]

Howdy Gumby,

I'm sorry to hear about yer father's death and what you went through..that is indeed,a humbling experience,and there may be hope for ya yet.

My gal and I,she's Jewish and I'm Christian,both of us, have a big chip on our shoulders,when it comes to organized religion..we believe that God is with us whereever we are and that we don't have to go to church to be with God. We don't like big,fancy churches or believe in the leaders of such,living an extravagant life-style,when there are so many poor folks that could be better helped,than them driving cadillacs and worshipping in multi-million dollar churches. With my gal being Jewish and me with long-hair and a beard,I doubt if either one of us would be welcome at my old congregation.

Have a good one ...

[graymatter]

my idea of a change isn't to get a new figure head in office... my 'idea' of change is a whole new way of life... much like the Republicans had a goal in 94 to change america as a whole and not just put someone in office... I think america needs to forget about Regan's theories, they were bush sr.'s anyways...

Reagan's theories were actually rooted Barry Goldwater's modern conservatism... which is funny because Goldwater swung the last ten years of his life to the libertarian side of things. The "one nation under Jesus" nuts scarred the hell out of him.

[graymatter]

With my gal being Jewish and me with long-hair and a beard,I doubt if either one of us would be welcome at my old congregation.


Here, here... you're both welcome to my congregation... we're a pointless gathering because we really don't worship anyone but it's fun! :thumbsup: