5 gallon bucker prep for bloomin

[Silver Balls]

Hey buds, For blooming plants early in the blooming stage, besides Dyna Grow - Bloom, and 1 ml of Thrive, what else should be in my 5 gallon buckets?
I cant afford CO2, but I feel like something is missing...... The plants are healthy and 5 days into 12 12...

[turtle420]

Ummm.... you can buy additives if you want.

LateWood loves Liquid Karma... I think.

There are also other stuff... like BGHydro's Bloom Blaster... stuff like that.

????

[LOC NAR1958]

You should be using RO water and calmag+with b-52 or liquid karma. Then you can add blooms and bigbud or stuff like that.

[KHAN]

PK 13-14 is supposed to be excellent. You add it 3 weeks to the day you start flowering.

[PlainOldMe]

bat guano

[Relic2279]

You can use additives if you'd like, but they're snake oils. I've bought and used every possibile additive for my setup and have seen no positive effects.
These nutrient companies are looking for more revenue so they'll sell ya anything.
(On a good note, I didn't see any negative effects either.)
Well, thats not all true. I did try Superbud and while insanely expensive, it did shorten the stretch of my plants during flowering. A bit of research into the product and I found that they used a specific plant hormone in their "secret reciepe". You could make hundreds of gallons of your own Superbud for less then $15. If anyone is interested, I will go into more detail.

[Opie Yutts]

The plants are healthy
Then what's the problem? If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Once again Relic, I agree with you. And yes, I am interested, please go into more detail.

You don't need a bunch of crap in your nutes. You can go to a bunch of extra trouble and expense if you want to, but what will you get out of it? An improvement in your yield of maybe, and I am going way out on a limb here, 1%. Probably more like 1/4 percent though. Why don't you spend your time and money setting up some co2 and improve your yield by 30%, and get more harvests per year to boot?

For cloning I use a B1 additive.
For vegging I use Fox Farm's Grow big, and a dash of Superthrive.
For budding I use Fox Farm's Tiger Bloom.

That's it, and here is a look at the results from my 3' x 2 1/2' closet. This is a sneak peek at a post of mine coming soon. I want to dry and weigh before posting.

[Opie Yutts]

Oh yeah, this is without co2, which is coming soon, and flowering early due to lack of buds.

[Relic2279]

What strain is that, I like the "sticky" look. :D

[Opie Yutts]

AK47, and it is very sticky. That's probably because it's supposed to be one of the most potent strains ever. Hell, I wouldn't know. Seems like I can't even get stoned anymore. Too much tolerance?

I tell you what... The whole house reeked today, and not from smoke. My 2 year old boy woke up and said, Mommy, what stinks? Is daddy going poop? Incidentally, he is the cutest boy known to mankind and elswhere.

[Opie Yutts]

Loc Nar:
I'ld not like to have an argument please, but this seems a bit excessive.
1) RO water
2) calmag+
3) b-52 or liquid karma
4) Then you can add blooms
5) and bigbud
Holy crap I would go crazy trying to organize all that. I'll stick with well water and Tiger Bloom, and consider the Superbud thing that Relic speaks of.

[latewood]

The plants are healthy
Then what's the problem? If it aint broke, don't fix it.

Once again Relic, I agree with you. And yes, I am interested, please go into more detail.

You don't need a bunch of crap in your nutes. You can go to a bunch of extra trouble and expense if you want to, but what will you get out of it? An improvement in your yield of maybe, and I am going way out on a limb here, 1%. Probably more like 1/4 percent though. Why don't you spend your time and money setting up some co2 and improve your yield by 30%, and get more harvests per year to boot?

For cloning I use a B1 additive.
For vegging I use Fox Farm's Grow big, and a dash of Superthrive.
For budding I use Fox Farm's Tiger Bloom.

That's it, and here is a look at the results from my 3' x 2 1/2' closet. This is a sneak peek at a post of mine coming soon. I want to dry and weigh before posting.well, for one thing...If you don't have 1000w, you really don't need co2, because the plant/atmosphere creates enough natturally...smaller lamps durn burn off co2 at the rate a 1000w does...FYI

[latewood]

locnar has a clue...nuff said. lw

[Opie Yutts]

I know. And I don't have a clue.

We are all still learning, aren't we?

I've got 600 watts, and I would like to try adding some co2. Is that so insane? I've heard good things.

[latewood]

No, it is just that co2 is not the cure-all monster growing miracle...unless you know what you are doing...It takes a fairly elaborate set-up and alot of tweaking to get co2 settings right...Hell you can fry'em with co2 if you are not careful...

sorry, I wasn't trying to be an A'Hole..Opie...My back is Killing me and I am out of Indimeds...Not smoke...just Indi....lol

there is a ton of crap out there...Yes, you are right, but to make a general statement that all additives are a waste of money...That is not true...
you can grow anyway you want, and everybody does...You can't always put Stock in the fact that a product didn't show results...How do you know every other aspect of the grow wasn't messed up? that's all I'm saying

but 1st...it is a fact that optimum results are obtained...using reverse osmosis water. When you put water through the RO process...it takes everything out good and bad. So you have to replenish your beneficial elements. OK? We like Calmag+ for this, but now...many other nutrient companies are following suit. That tells you something too.

about the other additives. Everyone believes in adding potash for bloom...well that's big bud. and big bud is a one of a kind product...I have asked every kickass hydro guy I know...and I talk their ears OFF!!! they all say the same thing when I try to find an alternative that is close...the element/mineral values of big bud are not matched by any product on the market. I don't know.

I have seen a great big giant difference in the use of Liquid Karma and Not using Liquid Karma...
Infact...I had to quit using it on my tomato's because the Damn tomato's were growing all over the frickin' place.

best part? It's Organic. the only other additive that I truly think (expensive!!!!!!) makes a vast difference in buddage is VooDoo Juice...but @ 65 bucks a liter...I can do without that...Until I shit a GOLD brick LOL Oh and of course I do keep a little bottle of Superthrive.

hope all is OK, Keep it up. Enjoy

[LOC NAR1958]

Thanks latewood, I'm starting to get it. LOL. Opie, No problems here, This is just everybody helping each other. And you need budblood for one week into 12/12 then big bud. When you start you have to try some of them or you don't really know. There are at least 12 more add ons to that list. It's just what I have tried. I had some samples of LK and am going to order some. If lw says VooDoo juice is the shit, then I will shit a gold brick and try it. LOL. At least once. it's just 65 bucks. Yes it hard to decide on things but how you going to know if you don't try. I just want the basics too. Remember it's easier to try than to prove it can't be done and it's easier to stay than to turn around and run.

[Opie Yutts]

I am not an expert by any means, and I'm sorry if I gave off that stank.

It's just that for me, I spend too much time already on my weed project, and I used to grow in dirt awhile back, so I am still amazed at the results I get from using only Tiger Bloom. I am not the one who said that all additives are a waste of money. I merely was trying to point out that for the same effort and expense there are other ways that would increase the yield much more efficiently than adding at least 12 more add ons, such as increase in light or co2, or even something as simple as ventilation or humidity. I think people tend to get all caught up in the Hydro hype and don't take care of the basics first - the stuff that could really make the most difference. I am not suggesting by any means that you guys are doing that.

I don't think co2 is the cure-all yield buster, and I have done some research into this. That is why I have been putting it off. I have to tear apart my setup and redo the ventilation system. I didn't understand how co2 worked when I first made my grow room, and I didn't bother to find out. I thought I could just add it later if I wanted to, but that's not how it works. You need to plan accordingly in the design stage. The really suckie part is that much of my ventilation is behind the wall. But I digress...

So, teach me oh great ones. If I were to add one additive to my Tiger Bloom, what would you guys vote for. Keep in mind that I have spray jets and cannot have any "chunks" in my nutes. I have seen a lot of brand names flying around this post, could we narrow it down a little? And what percentage would you expect this would increase my yield. I know, too many factors, just guess please.

And Relic, I am still waiting for you to go into more detail.

[LOC NAR1958]

Opie, the add ons I speak of are all kinds of nutes. It's so confusing to many of us what works and what doesn't. If your setup works and you get good yeilds then don't mess with it. I wish I could go co2 now but I can't. No money. LOL. I'm lucky to be where I am now. It's all good in the learning to say what works for you. I don't think you need alot just keep it simple. Wish I had co2. Let us know how it does for you. I'm still waiting for big Z's books. No problems here. Let's keep learning.

[Opie Yutts]

I will definately update on my co2 when it happens. I was trying to get it going after this harvest, but now I am so out of time I am going to have to wait another 2 months, until next harvest.

[Relic2279]

there is a ton of crap out there...Yes, you are right, but to make a general statement that all additives are a waste of money...That is not true...
you can grow anyway you want, and everybody does...You can't always put Stock in the fact that a product didn't show results...How do you know every other aspect of the grow wasn't messed up? that's all I'm saying

I started visiting this site mainly because ICmag was down, OG is down, etc..

While my post count may be low here, and I obviously haven't proven myself, I do know what I'm doing. I've been around for quite awhile heh. I use the handle ringstostar and relic2279. I was a moderator with IndyK over at reefermans website for awhile on the PIF (vip) forum.
I understand that you are probably the resident big dick around here and I'll respect that.
I've been growing for nearly 6 years now. About a year and a half ago I had a thread over at Overgrow testing a few different popular additives. I had a control, and used clones. Everything was sterile and well documented. Not a single one showed any markable increases in yeild. (Potency was not tested)

Every single one except superbud that is. Which I'm going to go into next.



Everyone believes in adding potash for bloom...well that's big bud. and big bud is a one of a kind product...I have asked every kickass hydro guy I know...and I talk their ears OFF!!! they all say the same thing when I try to find an alternative that is close...the element/mineral values of big bud are not matched by any product on the market. I don't know.


Bigbud's potash is not needed, at least, for the affect the consumers are buying it for. What Bigbud does is almost stop the stretch during flowering, forcing the plant to focus more of it's energy in creating and increasing budsize and flowers.
Bigbud was recently taken off the market because it did not disclose the regulated plant hormone it contained. That hormone is what people buy Bigbud for. Why charge almost $200 for a bottle? Because it worked.

Going into more detail;

The plant hormone, Abscisic acid inhibits the new shoot growth as well as promotes fruit ripening. Added during flowering is very, very benifical due to the fact that this is when the most stretch occurs. Superbud was the only additive to contain this. Once it was found out, it got taken off shelves. They must go through the proper procedure and registration applications before dutch master is allowed to sell this product again.
Superbud also contained an important, secondary hormone in a miniscule amount.
It's a plant cytokinin (hormone) called Zeatin. This hormone stimulates lateral bud growth and promotes cell division in the buds (flowers) themselves. While somewhat effective, results are mixed with this product because once stretch is inhibited, the plant already is using most of it's energy for bud formation.
And Zeatin is expensive. ($100 for 50mg) :eek:

So to make good on my promise. I'm still looking for my exact reciepe (once OG went down, I lost alot) but a solution of P, Abscisic acid and RO water will give you your own Superbud.

Links. To teach yourself a bit more about plant hormones, check out this newbie friendly website. (As layman as I could find for you guys anyway):
http://www.plant-hormones.info/

Now to purchase your own Abscisic acid, check out:
http://www.biosynth.com/index.asp?topic_id=164&g=&m=&sc=5&intro=no
or
http://www.abscisicacid.com/

They also sell Zeatin, but be warned. There is sticker shock.
Any questions, feel free to ask away. I have made this solution myself and it works like a charm. Mine is actually a bit stronger then DutchMasters because I added a tad more AA. You can tweak it to your own needs however.

~r

[Opie Yutts]

I obviously haven't proven myself, I do know what I'm doing.
From the moment I first laid eyes on you, there was no doubt that you know what you are doing.

You seem to always agree with me, and visa versa, so you must be right.

[Opie Yutts]

That Liquid Karma being organic, I guess it has some small chunks in it, making it likely to clog up my spray jets. Is that the same with Voodoo Juice? (Good lord I think for the rest of my life I will not be able to say the word "voodoo" with out thinking of Ferris Buhler's Day Off.) And do you recall how much you add per gallon of nutes? That might have a lot to do with my decision to try it. If it's like SuperThrive though, that $65 worth could go a long way. I wouldn't mind paying that if it really makes a difference. At least once to try might not be a bad idea. I got to tell you, Relic's offer is looking very attractive at this point though. Looking forward to that recipe. Sounds like this could be the way to go though, as far as expense vs results. Hmm.. decisions, decisions.

I think I would like to try something, since everyone seems to think that it can make a difference if you use their particular favorite additive. Probably need to experiment. Whatever I decide, love all you guys man. Thanks for all the input, this is great. I didn't start this thread, but it sure has my attention.

[latewood]

1st off relic...I never said anyone didn't know what they were doing. And, thanks for the new info.

2nd, I think it's great for knowledgable people to join and contribute. sick of kids that don't know shit.

/quote/Bigbuds potash is not needed, at least, for the affect the consumers are buying it for. What Bigbud does is almost stop the stretch during flowering, forcing the plant to focus more of it's energy in creating and increasing budsize and flowers"...relic, that is exactly why I started using it...when was it taken off the shelves? I just bought a jar a month ago.

Like I said. I have controlled environments too. I did see big difference with LK... I only trust ME! I have done 15 grow experiments in the last year and a 1/2. (by the way. I am Mod at alternative MMJ site also.)

I agree with a lot that you say, but still find it to be a matter of opinion. peace lw

welcome and please don't take offense to my attitude. and, don't call me a newb. lw

[misk]

wat are the advantages of using thrive?
and could somone explain wat stretch is and how those additives affect it?
i have just started my plant on 12/12 and dont wana miss anything that could imporve or prevent somthing negative happening.

i am a newbie to the more technical side of weed cultivation, im on my 4th grow but first hydro. in the past ive only done outdoor with just grow and bloom nuts. still good results tho :)

so any advice is greatly appreciated.
cheers

[LOC NAR1958]

Misk, welcome.
When you put your plants in 12/12 to flower they continue to grow 2 to 3 times their size.. The strech is the space between bud sites and you want it as short as you can, more bud less stem. bud blood and big bud are used to keep the strech down. Superthrive is for vegatation , to make a good healthy root system before flowering. Do not use during 12/12.

[misk]

thanx heaps :)

[latewood]

bud blood sets the flowers and big bud fattens the buds...basically...

superthrive is a growth hormone with b-vitamins and is believed to be a stress reducing factor...

loc? I don't know why you would not use ST for 12/12.

this is not scientific, but here goes. In flower, it is known that stress is a cause of hermies, therefore it stands to reason that using ST for it's stress relieveing tendencies...would be good for stress maintenance...I am
not saying anyone is wrong here. It has been documented both ways.

P.S. relic, I have been waiting along time for someone to explain the differences of the bigbud in order to find a replacement...the proof is still out, but your info, has peaked my interest, so I would appreciate some of your time.

I think the great info you posted here would have been better placed in it's own thread, so as to be a value to the community, and to introduce yourself for...How'd you put it?
to prove yourself...

ps I am just a guy that has put in countless hours helping people learn to get started in a positive manner. I suggest alternatives generally, unless I know someone is dead wrong. I have said it repeatedly, but evidently not enough...I don't care how you grow...I know what work's for me...If you don't want or need help...Cool beans with me.
trouble is...All you guys come in here from OG and think no-one here knows what's going on.
all the products In use and suggest, work and I'm sorry, but I find it pretentious to suggest otherwise...I am positive your recipe and research will prove an asset to many here @Cdot; Including myself, but please don't put me on a pedestal, I am no big 'Dick' round here, and I don't appreciate you putting that out there like that.
I have earned members respect here because I
have helped many in the past.

I hope you don't take offense to this reply. I just had to air my feelings in order to move on. that is one of my endearing qualitites...you will never have to guess, how I feel lw

[Relic2279]

1st off relic...relic, that is exactly why I started using it...when was it taken off the shelves? I just bought a jar a month ago.


Whoops! When I said bigbud in the last post, I was meaning Dutchmasters superbud. I was pretty well buzzing when I wrote that post.. Forgive me :D



Like I said. I have controlled environments too. I did see big difference with LK... I only trust ME! I have done 15 grow experiments in the last year and a 1/2.

Yeah, I don't doubt ya. I was just giving my opinion based on my trials, sorry if I tried to make it sound like "fact". With some people having good results, and others having none, I would assume that certain strains like certain additives while others don't react to them. It's the only conclusion I can come too...


and, don't call me a newb. lw

Hmm I hope I didn't call ya a newb. Because I don't think you are. :P


All you guys come in here from OG and think no-one here knows what's going on.
all the products In use and suggest, work and I'm sorry, but I find it pretentious to suggest otherwise...

I don't think that at all. At first, I felt like I was the one being treated like I didn't know anything so I may have been on the aggressive side.


I am no big 'Dick' round here, and I don't appreciate you putting that out there like that.

It was the weed talking. Nah, I can be pretty blunt and bolt. I don't mean anything by it, take no offense. I'm a bit eccentric. Or so I've been told. ;)

By the way, doing some research now to find out if bigbud contains any auxins or cytokinins (hormones). I wasn't interested in bigbud at all until a fellow grower of mine (the crazy scientist type) mentioned that he thought it contained cytokinins. If this is the case, then I'm almost postitive it would be zeatin. While I haven't used hornby's bigbud, I'm curious as to if it slows or stops stretch. Anyone care to leave feedback?

As far as a replacement for superbud goes, all the hydrostores online are claiming "Phosphoload" is Superbud's replacement. While almost damn near expensive as Superbud, I haven't heard anything about this product yet. I will say this, if it doesn't contain any plant hormones, it's not a superbud replacement.

These nutrient companies don't give up their secret reciepes willingly so it's hard work. Stay tuned!

[latewood]

Whoops! :smokin: got:stoned: Forgive me :D



Yeah, I don't doubt ya. I was just giving my opinion based on my trials, sorry if I tried to make it sound like "fact". With some people having good results, and others having none, I would assume that certain strains like certain additives while others don't react to them. It's the only conclusion I can come too...///lw/// this is exactly what I was saying, I don't really follow the philosphy that different strains would squewe the results as much as...:) don;t laugh now. the difference in; Water! 2 or more? people with different characteristics, different grow tendencies. Lighting differences.(although I am sure you have at least 600w-1000w or more.)...atmosphere...I mean, for instance.:confused: Q///what if I came to your lab and used Liquid Karma? do you think it would work for me?
I really feel I see more vigor using the product. However, I would most likely get as good a result following your recipe!:thumbsup:

I don't think that at all. At first, I felt like I was the one being treated like I didn't know anything so I may have been on the aggressive side. ///lw///I did not mean to make you feel unwelcome. We need your kind around here.
good people and tight knit grow community. You will love it:smokin:



It was the weed talking. Nah, I can be pretty blunt and bolt. I don't mean anything by it, take no offense. I'm a bit eccentric. Or so I've been told. ;)///lw///you jusr described me:p I've got so many irons in the fire...And, My back is Killing me:cool:

By the way, doing some research now to find out if bigbud contains any auxins or cytokinins (hormones). I wasn't interested in bigbud at all until a fellow grower of mine (the crazy scientist type)///lw///maybe a:mad:'Scientist' mentioned that he thought it contained cytokinins. If this is the case, then I'm almost postitive it would be zeatin. While I haven't used hornby's bigbud, I'm curious as to if it slows or stops stretch. Anyone care to leave feedback?


These nutrient companies don't give up their secret reciepes willingly so it's hard work. Stay tuned!I'll check out some of the products you mention and research a couple of these queries, you brought to mind. I gotta go. spent all day @ another site I help out @ posting a build thread...And My back is KILINGINGINGNGG me!!!

peace bro, check ya later.
ps Did you read the altered quote?;)

lw

[LOC NAR1958]

Hey, latewood
Someone said you shouldn't use it in flower, I can't remember who now. When I got it I thought it was for the whole grow for stress like you said. Good to know I will start putting it in. Yes relic's info is good reading, I would like to see it in a thread also. Keep all the good info in one place. Makes it easy if I get stoned and confused. LOL

[elcheapo]

I think it was Zandor that said it. He said 'SuperThrive' can retard the flowering process. And that the plant shouldn't need it as the root system should be fully developed by this stage.

Here I found the link - http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=63305

[LOC NAR1958]

Thanks man. I knew it wasn't long ago. latewood, have you seen a dif with or with out ?

[latewood]

I think it was Zandor that said it. He said 'SuperThrive' can retard the flowering process. And that the plant shouldn't need it as the root system should be fully developed by this stage.

Here I found the link - http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=63305Zandor mentioned superthrivealive...so I don't know for sure. He does that some times and then you find out he was talking about thrive alive...not ST...we'll have to wait, see.

elcheapo...that pik you had of your budy's plant...that wasn't caused by superthrive(more likely caused by,"he doesn't know how to grow!)...and you are not supposed to use it alot, just 1/4 tsp per gallon. The whole freakin' govt. uses this product from US dept of ag. all the way to the armed forces...kinda like nasa growing hydro...can they be wrong?

locnar, my friend...samples on the way. I don't use it except when transplanting and propagation anymore, due to my use of Liquid karma...I use either or...not both at the same time...If I was out of Liquid karma, B-52, then I would use it every change for b-vits...Just my opinion

In closing I will say this...If you follow the directions for LK...It tells you to stop it a couple of weeks into bloom, I believe...I'll have to backcheck:)...another note: I would have to surmise that whenever you would use B1; yoiu could use superthrive...so, read up on B1. That is where I would start to gain more insight on this ongoing debate.

anyway, just trying to keep convo going:smokin:

i tell you what...I have a shitload of seedlings...now they all have been treated with superthrive during propagation and spritzing...I will take 2 through veg, and then in flower...One plant will get a full dose of ST and the other will NOT!...then I will tell you guys...OK...We will start in a week or 2 also, I can't wait to see how many fem's I get.
Knock on wood. Using superthrive I have never had a negative majority of fem's

lw

[elcheapo]

Sorry all. I may have jumped the gun. I wasn't aware of superthrivealive and may have mis-quoted. Hopefully Zandor can clear this up.

I'm kind of anti superthrive mainly because I can't get it where I live and I'm a bit jealous. :) And also because I didn't like the snake oil style of advertising. If the product is actually any good then it should sell itself and be available everywhere.
I'm waiting for Latewoods tests and ONLY Latewoods tests before I will believe ST is of any value.

LW, that's actually a picture of one of HARDDONs plants. :) I posted it on there because I had the feeling that it may be superthrive related. I wasn't really around when he was actively posting but 'I think' he was a heavy user of ST.

[LOC NAR1958]

latewood I can see where your coming from. There are some things that are just pure science when it comes to hydro and bottany. I will be looking to read up on it. Thanks man. Hard to get good pic's with light on or mylar all over.

[elcheapo]

Nice work again Loc.. do you have a grow log going for this?

Zandor.. are you able to clear us up on using Superthrive during flowering? I'd be interested to know for sure. See Uncle Woody's previous post - #33.

[LOC NAR1958]

No log on this one. I got a few pic's in the post about the hortilux bulb.

[latewood]

I wish I could remember what harddon did to that plant...he's been around a little lately...I told him he should bury the hatchet and come out to play!

lw

[moreover123]

Relic - I'd love to see the recipe for the your superbud mix. Would you be kind enough to post it?

[latewood]

P, abscisic acid, and rowater according to above post, but relic never found/posted the values in the recipe. he mentioned he was trying to find it...probably got note pads all over like me, and refers to website mostly after he shares with everyone, and now that he can't recover his research from OG, he has to find it amongst his notes:eek:

you could probably read above post of relics...get the ingredients listed...look on superbud %'s and guess from there, after a couple of side by side's with your formula, you will be able to tweak it, If you find you have the gift. peace goodluck lw

let us now if you try it.

lw

[Opie Yutts]

This is an interesting post. Keep it coming.

The whole freakin' govt. uses this product
That is a great arguement to not use this product.

[latewood]

Well, I wish relic would answer again...I certainly did not wish to run-off a knowledgable grower.

lw

[mellogold]

sorry i gotta bump this thread, i was crusin the boards and was lookin up diff ratios and s tuff and stumble apon it, i personally think this is one of the best threads i v read in some time, thumbsup guys,

nooblets should read this and ask questions

[fasts102376]

can i use Liquid Karma with the gh nutes?

[fasts102376]

^anybody^