Chemical vs Natural

[420mory]

How do you all feel towards chemicals and natural psychedelics? A lot of people see chemicals as the devil for the psychonautical comunity and wil stay away from chemicals, other people tend to think that chemicals are stronger and better to dose than natural products.
I think the effect of chemicals and natural products is different. Many times the natural product is a combination of alkaloids that all work together to achieve an effect (cacti, kratom, ephedra). Taking the chemical form is most of the times only taking the most potent alkoloid and not the whole range of other simular alkoloids , perhaps there is the difference ?

[orangeman]

A substance that is derived from mineral, plant, or animal matter and does not undergo a synthetic process as defined in section 6502(21) of the Act (7 USC 6502(21)). For the purposes of this part, nonsynthetic is used as a synonym for natural as the term is used in the Act.

Natural is defined as "of or relating to nature"; this applies to both definitions of 'nature': 'essence' ("one's true nature") and 'the untouched world' ("force of nature"). Natural is often used meaning "good", "healthy", or "belonging to human nature".



# produced by or used in a reaction involving changes in atoms or molecules
# of or made from or using substances produced by or used in reactions involving atomic or molecular changes; "chemical fertilizer"

Refers to human-made or synthetic compoundsâ??or not of natural origin.

A chemical compound is a substance consisting of two or more chemical elements that are chemically combined in definite proportions.

Well...just from reading these two I would just go with natural lol.

[Cooler Then Jesus]

i am considering going all natural, but i dont know if i could do that unless my freinds did too, and that would be kind of hard considering they are only 15 years old, and are already falling in love with any thing methamphetamine. i really dont want to see them fall victim to an addiction though, so ive been stocking up on naturals to kind of keep them distracted from the other stuff. but i havent behaved so mutch my self either, just yesterday i decided it would be a good idea to take 3 E pills before school. bad idea, i woke up 6 hours later in the sober room at the ER. but i somehow convinced 4 different professional doctors that i was sober all day, and then when they told my mom that i was in fact sober and could go home, she like, refused to beleive them. so i ended up staying an extra 2 hours because my mom was being an attention whore for the doctors. and then finnaly i get home, only to find out she opened my mail and nicked my 3 grams of 20x salvia. worst fuckin day ever. but today aint so bad. just on kind of a come down, but its cool because i aint lettin it get to me, i just gotta wait till i get my chance to turn my parents bedroom inside out and get my salvia. they dont under stand, if i dont get my natural back, then i might be tempted to go take more E, or ketamine. i am thinking of just sitting down and asking my mom for tha salvia back, because it is LEGAL, and it wont hurt me, and it will keep me away from doing any chemicals.

[harmonicminor]

natural is better 99% of the time
but there are exeptions....
lsd vs lsa
synthetic thc thats 1000 times stronger than pure thc

[skarz]

I'm all-natural.... it's a personal decision but that's the way i choose. I prefer entheogens over almost every "drug"

[The Grim Reefer]

Damn Cooler, it sounds like you need to relax on the drugs for a little bit bro.

[Nullific]

The whole controversy is utter bullshit.

How do you all feel towards chemicals and natural psychedelics?
First of all, all psychedelics are chemicals. The ones that are not 'natural' are better reffered to as 'synthetics'. Then there are plenty of 'natural' substances that are dangerous to humans. Likewise there are plenty of 'synthetic' substances that are virtually non-toxic or that have a low toxicity.
Most synthetics are also derived from natural compounds. Outstanding examples of this practice can be found in TiHKaL and PiHKaL. Alexander Shulgin has synthesized and bioassayed hundreds of tryptamines and phenethylamines over the years and he seems to be doing quite well.

It should also be noted that plants and organisms are essentially synthesizing substances themselves. They didn't come from no where, the organism is capable of building certain compounds. Mushrooms for example are capable of adding a 4-hydroxyl group to any tryptamine in its substrate. Usually it does this with DMT to produce 4-ho-DMT aka psilocin, but you could throw in a tryptamine not known in nature like DET and the shrooms would 4-hydroxylate it to 4-ho-DET.

[Dextromethorphan]

If taken to an extreme, one could argue that all chemicals capable of production are natural because the components of them exist in the natural world; everything comes from somewhere.

[harmonicminor]

The whole controversy is utter bullshit.

First of all, all psychedelics are chemicals. The ones that are not 'natural' are better reffered to as 'synthetics'. Then there are plenty of 'natural' substances that are dangerous to humans. Likewise there are plenty of 'synthetic' substances that are virtually non-toxic or that have a low toxicity.
Most synthetics are also derived from natural compounds. Outstanding examples of this practice can be found in TiHKaL and PiHKaL. Alexander Shulgin has synthesized and bioassayed hundreds of tryptamines and phenethylamines over the years and he seems to be doing quite well.

It should also be noted that plants and organisms are essentially synthesizing substances themselves. They didn't come from no where, the organism is capable of building certain compounds. Mushrooms for example are capable of adding a 4-hydroxyl group to any tryptamine in its substrate. Usually it does this with DMT to produce 4-ho-DMT aka psilocin, but you could throw in a tryptamine not known in nature like DET and the shrooms would 4-hydroxylate it to 4-ho-DET.

I was going to point out the thread should have been named "Synthetic vs natural chemicals" but you are correct :thumbsup:

and dex
while you are correct also its when a new chemical is made that hasnt been made before by nature or man that the word synthetic comes into play. a chemical that doesn't occur in nature. :) I know you know this though. :thumbsup:
the synthetic chemicals can have very bad effects on the body though

[Dextromethorphan]

"the synthetic chemicals can have very bad effects on the body though"
so can the natural ones!

[Joey935]

I find most natural trips overwhelming and hard to control(i.e. make me insane), and prefer synthetic trips.

[mochil69]

I like to get high off life.
You should all do the same.

[BestTonicIsChronic]

Shut the FUCK UP. Like common I know the saying "To each, his own" but common who the fuck gives a damn whether its man-made, natural, or aliens dropped it off from a UFO, as long as I aint gonna kill you instantly, and you get to where you want to be who gives a flying fuck. All you ppl saying shit like "I only trust natural" or "Chemical is dirty" or some shit like that, you all make me sick. Arsinic is natural, it makes you BLEED INTERNALLY. Datura and Beladonna are all natural, and they make you trip for a good day at least, but the next morining YOU GO BLIND for a few days. Now Im not saying chemical drugs are better, Im just saying, give the whole "all-natural hippy shit" a fricken break.

[enthused]

If I like it and have a good time, then I don't mind doing chemical or natural. It's all the same to me.

[harmonicminor]

Shut the FUCK UP. Like common I know the saying "To each, his own" but common who the fuck gives a damn whether its man-made, natural, or aliens dropped it off from a UFO, as long as I aint gonna kill you instantly, and you get to where you want to be who gives a flying fuck. All you ppl saying shit like "I only trust natural" or "Chemical is dirty" or some shit like that, you all make me sick. Arsinic is natural, it makes you BLEED INTERNALLY. Datura and Beladonna are all natural, and they make you trip for a good day at least, but the next morining YOU GO BLIND for a few days. Now Im not saying chemical drugs are better, Im just saying, give the whole "all-natural hippy shit" a fricken break.

theres plenty of research chemicals where the side effects are pretty much unknown.
a lot of the natural ones the effects are known and you know to stay away

[Nullific]

Of course with research chemicals the effects are widely unknown, because they are research chemicals. Great care should be taken when administering yourself such a substance. Not because they are synthetic but because the side effects are widely unknown.
The same would apply to any new potentially psychoactive substance found in nature. Let's say an organic chemist discovered a compound in some species of fungus -natural but never before encountered- that he believed could be hallucinogenic. If he wanted to give it a try I doubt very much he would say to himself "Well it is natural it must be safe" and trip there and then.

[Delta9]

It dosent matter if its synthetic as long as there no impurities in the substance. Synthetic mitragynine would bw the exact compound as the plant derived extract.

Just because it comes from a plant does not mean its good for you anyway.
Strychnine is plant derived.

Aconitine is derived from aconitium napellus appearing in mythology when Arachne challenged the Greek goddess Minerva to a weaving contest. after Arachne wove her web and hung herself Minerva preserved Arachnes memory "Then, sprinkling her [Arachne] with the juices of aconite, the goddess [Minerva] transformed her into a spider. (Gayley, C.M., The Classic Myths in English Literature and Art, Ginn-Blaisdell Xerox company, 1893, 1911, and 1939. Massachusetts, Toronto, London. pgs. 82-84)

Or the well known 'suicide tree' in southern India has been responsible for approximately 50 deaths a year in Kerala alone not to mention Madagascar were it has estimatedly killed 3000 people per year. It is the plant cerbera odollam containing a extremely deadly poison 'cerberin' causing the heart to stop beating after 3 - 6 hours. It has only recently been investigated by our weastern toxicologist escaping detection by forensics until recently. (Gaillard, Y., Krishnomoorthy, A., Bevalot, F., Journal of Ethnopharmacology 95 (2004) 123-126)