Fems and Hermies (changed title from 'feminize your own seeds')

[Dimebag]

I hear many arguments if people should buy feminized seeds or not. I recommend buying normal seeds so you have both male and female. Then when they flower, separate the males and females. DONT KILL THE MALES LIKE YOU USUALLY DO. Then feed the males with with ASPRIN. You know...Bayer or St. joseph. Feed them the aspirin just like you would feed them your nutrients. For example, i have a 3.5 gallon bubbler bucket, i feed them with new nutriets every three weeks. Same thing with the aspirin (after flowering) i feed them 1 crushed 80mg tablet every three weeks. After the aspirin treatment, the hormones in the males should change dramatically. When both male and female are ripe, you should begin the mating process. Heres a trick i picked up to easily mate (i forgot the site). Get a wet brown paper bag, and put it on the male branch. Tight the opening of the bag with a rubber band and shake the branch for 15 minutes. Quickly take it to a female branch, tighten the opening and wait for the bag to dry. after it drys, shake the branch for 30 minutes. The females should be fertilized and wait a few days for the seeds to ripen. Plant the seeds and they should come up female in the future. When i feed the asprin to the males, i play it safe and put in one tablet. You might have better luck putting more in (like 1 tablet per gallon). I only tried this once and i had good success. Can some one try this and tell me their success? I never tried giving both sexes asprin...

[Tech]

How good was your sucses ? Did you have 100% females or was it just good luck?
Why the paper bag thing? Why not rub the two plants together to mate.
I have heard of asprin interfearing with the gender of plants b 4 somwhere.
I might give it a go.

[Dimebag]

I had a 100% success, each one was a perfect female. i planted 11 seeds...The paper bag is just my method of breeding them. You can breed them any way you want. Yeah...brushing them is ok. What ever way you like. The paper bag method guarentees that pollen has reached the female bud, and it wont spread pollen in the air much as brushing. There are many other chemical and even organic ways. You also can try the hormone "gibberellic acid" (what ever that is...). I think aspirin is safe and by far the best way. Many seed banks use aspirin to feminize their seeds. Post your success when your done. thanks.

[Tech]

Yeah i will for sure .
I got a few nearly finished now in a week or so and i got a few different seeds left so i,ll do a cross breed while i,m at it . Ive never polinated female plants b4 , well not on purpose any way he he he.

[Dimebag]

i still wanna know how something like asprin can do this...

[BUZz UK]

this should be in a different section.

Has anyone else tried this?

[stinkyattic]

Never tried it. It's simple to make fem seeds using light stress or heat stress to force-herm a female into producing XX pollen.

But if you've got a known female... it's FAR more efficient simply to take cuttings and clone that sexy mama. You never know if her kids are gonna be as sexy as she was.

[Rusty Trichome]

I've been feminizing using aspirin for years.
I add uncoated aspirin (two aspirin per gallon, for 3 consecutive waterings) to my confirmed fems, at beginning of flowering stage. After a few weeks, they will produce a few pollen sacks filled with femmed pollen. Only draw-back is by the time the pollen sacks are finally ready to open, it's time to harvest. (but is ready to be painted onto next crop of fems)
Have never heard of 'feminizing' a male's pollen, but definatelly do not want to have that much pollen/potential pollen floating around my growspace.

[Rusty Trichome]

But if you've got a known female... it's FAR more efficient simply to take cuttings and clone that sexy mama. You never know if her kids are gonna be as sexy as she was.

Yes, but if anything catastrophic happens, it's nice to have a good back-up plan.;) (dogs, cats, light leaks, overfert...)

[thecreator]

Good stuff I want to try this with some bag seeds. I don't think id risk it with seeds purchased online.

[BUZz UK]

But if you've got a known female... it's FAR more efficient simply to take cuttings and clone that sexy mama.

depending on situation obviously...

[maik]

I tried this method twenty years ago, only because I wasn't at university yet, and had never read the scientific publications using silver nitrate and STS solution.

I would figure I got about 75-80% female seeds, but the rest were shemales. Hermies are natural, shemales are induced. In 1993, I read about the STS method and got 100% females everytime. Now my sprouting/seedling/vegging space is always a small, hot, humid box powered by daylight flo tubes, and I get better than 90% females from the strains I dare to use.

I figure the aspirin method is better than wasting time light/nute/water/heat stressing to get shemales.

[ninfan77]

do you have any info on the method to produce silver nitrate / collodial silver?

[stinkyattic]

Silver nitrate can be purchased from a chemical supply house.
Save yourself the $$$ and go bother the girls with a flashlight during their dark period, or yank them from their beauty naps. They'll be pissed enough to throw nanners just from the light cycle interruption.

[Rusty Trichome]

Stinky...do you remove the lady from the flower room to light-stress her?
I guess what I'm wondering is, do you remove the one lady before light's out, and treat her to a night of Jay Leno and bonghits?
-Or-
do you have to sneak in, zap her without zapping everyone, and sneak back out? My aspirin method works for me, but was always (just a little) curious about the light poisoning techniques.

Impressional minds want to know, lol.

[the image reaper]

the whole idea of feminization is just stupid ... a prime example of modern man's attitude of "I want it ALL, and I want it NOW" ... Ive grown for 40+ years, and only had a handful of males ... if you do everything according to the book, and make your seedlings' environment as good as it can be (without all the tricks and gimmicks) you WILL get predominantly females ... all you have to do is imitate Nature's 'best days', 18/6 light cycles, for example (nature does NOT provide 24 hours of sunlight a day), etc ...
besides, none of these suggested 'tricks' are the result of 'double-blind' studies (Stinky, as a lab scientist, I'm very surprised you didn't also point that out) ... lemme give you an example of what I mean ... I used to drink beer by the gallons ... every time I planted crops I had a beer in one hand, and was half-drunk ... I almost always got 100% females ...using 'feminized' reasoning, it was the beer that made the females :wtf: ... just like that SuperThrive crap, if a plant survives, you give credit to the stuff, whether it mattered, or not ...
I had NEVER used 'feminization' techniques, or used one single drop of SuperThrive, or gibberlic acid, or hormones, etc .... and I almost always got females in return :D ... perhaps it was my black T-shirt that was responsible (I almost always wore black T-shirts in those days, they must cause females, somehow) ... the only thing 'feminization' has done, is to weaken the genetics of marijuana, promote hermaphrodites, and make unwanted sex-reversal more common from weakened genetics ...
sorry if I sound caustic, but I have always felt PATIENCE is the key to quality marijuana growing, and the lack of patience is ruining thousands of MJ crops around the world ... sometimes this sort of thing can have far-ranging, terrible consequences, seen any pure Columbian Gold or Panama Red lately ??... wise up, growers ;)

[Rusty Trichome]

the whole idea of feminization is just stupid ... a prime example of modern man's attitude of "I want it ALL, and I want it NOW" ... Ive grown for 40+ years, and only had a handful of males ... if you do everything according to the book, and make your seedlings' environment as good as it can be (without all the tricks and gimmicks) you WILL get predominantly females ... all you have to do is imitate Nature's 'best days', 18/6 light cycles, for example (nature does NOT provide 24 hours of sunlight a day), etc ...
besides, none of these suggested 'tricks' are the result of 'double-blind' studies (Stinky, as a lab scientist, I'm very surprised you didn't also point that out) ... lemme give you an example of what I mean ... I used to drink beer by the gallons ... every time I planted crops I had a beer in one hand, and was half-drunk ... I almost always got 100% females ...using 'feminized' reasoning, it was the beer that made the females :wtf: ... just like that SuperThrive crap, if a plant survives, you give credit to the stuff, whether it mattered, or not ...

Gee...I'm sorry you aren't feeling well.
But just a few minor points...

The analysis of feminizing that you present doesn't seem to take into account that those I learned the technique from, have been sucessfully doing this for many years. As have I. As have the Dutch.
Does it concern me that you are a doubter? Not especially. But I'm not about to slam any of your methods, such as your 'lucky' shirt or magical beer. But since you seem well informed, please explain the where the donor chromosomes come from when no male is present, and their effect on the resultant seeds' chromosomes and genetics.


the only thing 'feminization' has done, is to weaken the genetics of marijuana, promote hermaphrodites, and make unwanted sex-reversal more common from weakened genetics
I had NEVER used 'feminization' techniques, or used one single drop of SuperThrive, or gibberlic acid, or hormones, etc .... and I almost always got females in return :D ... perhaps it was my black T-shirt that was responsible (I almost always wore black T-shirts in those days, they must cause females, somehow) ... the only thing 'feminization' has done, is to weaken the genetics of marijuana, promote hermaphrodites, and make unwanted sex-reversal more common from weakened genetics ...
sorry if I sound caustic, but I have always felt PATIENCE is the key to quality marijuana growing, and the lack of patience is ruining thousands of MJ crops around the world ... sometimes this sort of thing can have far-ranging, terrible consequences, seen any pure Columbian Gold or Panama Red lately ??... wise up, growers ;)

WOW, all that on one breath...
Personally, I'm doubtful that the feminization of seed stock is as responsible for the demise of Maui Wowie, Panama Red or Colombian Gold, Fallbrook Sens, as over-hybridization is. As was taught to me..."Going hermie" is a genetically imprinted trait within the genes of the plant to insure propogation of the species. If the fem hasn't been pollinated late in the season, or gets stepped-on by a wolly mamouth, she takes matters into her own hands. This is a species survival technique, not a disaster.
Unfortunatelly, with the genetic variables, some strains are more suceptable to 'turning hermie'. This coupled with many growers inability to offer their ladies pristine growing conditions ends-up compounding the situation.
Perhaps if it were not for those whom originally decided to cross indica and indica, sativa and sativa, indica and sativa, and sativa and indica together, (40 years ago) to get a more potent, disease-resistant and stronger plant (and growable in their local region) with the flavors we now have, we may still have access to these strains. But...do you miss the Edsel, too? C'mon...these strains departed, when...in the 70's? What's really wrong, Image? We're here to help.

[thecreator]

Yea smoked and thought it over great no phenomenal idea cheers mate cheers I'm doing that as soon as my seeds come.

[the image reaper]

guess I'll go out and buy some Bayer stock, and be grateful for the gullible ... they're your seeds, to do with as you please ... and, I don't know why you think I'm not feeling well, or are concerned so much for me, but thanks for the nice thoughts ... good luck :D

[Rusty Trichome]

The content of your post seemed so incredibly disparaging that I mistakenly thought you were feeling under the weather.
Some examples:

"Ive grown for 40+ years, and only had a handful of males"

Ummm...sure.

"I used to drink beer by the gallons ... every time I planted crops I had a beer in one hand, and was half-drunk ... I almost always got 100% females ...using 'feminized' reasoning, it was the beer that made the females"

I'm begining to think it was being half-drunk that did the trick. You are comparing apples with Chevy Trucks. Getting drunk has no bearing on the genetics.

"just like that SuperThrive crap, if a plant survives, you give credit to the stuff, whether it mattered, or not"
Some folks don't have ideal soil or frets, and thus need micronutes.

"I had NEVER used 'feminization' techniques, or used one single drop of SuperThrive, or gibberlic acid, or hormones, etc .... and I almost always got females in return"

If you have never tried any of the techniques or additives you mention, then what data source are you using for your 'facts'?

I don't wish to make an enemy, as I generally like your contributions to this site and I applaud your feelings on patience. But at some point, facts and the ability to learn have to dominate over inuendo and ignorance.

[Opie Yutts]

Well I'm going to have to agree with image reaper here. I do believe you could have only ended up with a handful of males during that time. If you buy seeds from a reputable dealer, and do the things you are supposed to, you will automatically get 60-70% female. Happens all the time. So when people buy or make feminized seeds, and they and up with 69% female, they are all happy because feminized seeds are for real. Well so are non feminized seeds and they do the same thing. Just start one or more mothers using regular seeds and pick the best ones. No more wasting time and/or worrying about how to make females. I like how feminized seed sellers guarantee at least 50% females. Wow, they're really going out on a limb there.

I keep hearing people yelling Feminize! I think it works! I got 70% females! Yet it's interesting how they can never offer one shred of scientific proof.

"...But at some point, facts and the ability to learn have to dominate over inuendo and ignorance."

Facts? What facts? Got any? And I don't mean perceived evidence, I mean facts.

OK, let the bashing begin.

[Rusty Trichome]

I hear nobody yelling "FEMINIZE" except those that apparently have not tried, have tried and failed, or just have something up their butts about techniques that differ from their own. If you wish to avoid the technique, fine by me.

Mine is a medical grow, so I breed for my own purposes, and as I see fit. I do not sell offer or give any part of my grow, seeds included, to anyone outside my house. What I have learned from years of following the advise of others with much more knowlege than I has enabled me to avoid many mistakes, and correct years of myths that had surrounded the growing of cannabis as I was growing up. (some of which survive to this day)

The main reason I'm here is I'm trying to help newbies and medical growers with no where else to turn that wish to improve their skills, and broaden their knowlege base, so that they can distinguish between plausibility, and bullshit. Perhaps to learn something myself, in return.

For those that feel that they have enough of a handle on their growing techniques to attempt something like this should at least have the opportunity to learn if they so desire. Finding ways to improve or enhance ones grow has it's advantages. This is, after the Advanced Growing Forum, is it not?

[Opie Yutts]

The main reason I'm here is I'm trying to help newbies and medical growers with no where else to turn that wish to improve their skills, and broaden their knowlege base, so that they can distinguish between plausibility, and bullshit. Perhaps to learn something myself, in return.

Well said. Me too.

[MVP]

While not as experienced as some others on this site, I remain open to many 'contoversial' ideas and look forward to the facts, results, and play-by-play descriptions that my DIY personality appreciates. Look forward to learning..........

[DurbanStone]

Subscribed. I have heard both sides many many times, and am looking forward to the facts.

[stinkyattic]

Fact:
The trait that you wish to avoid passing on is the PROPENSITY to herm under only moderately stressful conditions.

I do not like to force-herm because a) I have mother plants coming out my EARS and all the female clones I will ever need and b) I keep several excellent males for breeding purposes.
I would only force-herm in an instance where I was down to a single remaining female of a line and had no other way to preserve her genetic material in case the unthinkable should happen. In this case, photoperiod is my preferred method. I'm a chemist. I run a chem lab, and I fuck around with toxins, carcinogens, mutagens, endocrine disruptors, and plain ol' irritants on the daily; I've got the safety training and equipment to do it safely (fume hoods and ppe), I can dispose of waste according to EPA regulations, and I STILL don't like the idea of even MYSELF fucking around with that junk at mi casa.

As for weakening the line by breeding with herms:
NEVER breed with a natural herm.
IN EMERGENCIES breed with a herm that popped up in a known-stressed garden.
ALWAYS force-herm a few females and preferentially save the seeds from the female that you found most difficult to force into pollen production.

Your goal is to ensure that under even slightly stressful grow conditions your resultant females will not go herm on ya. So your secondary goal in force-herming a plant is to stress-test it into telling you whether it has a strong propensity to herm.

Fact:
You can use photoperiod, high temps (raise the top of the plant right up into the light so it shows acute heat stress), or over-ripeness to naturally force herms. Nanners should show a couple weeks after the expected harvest date.

[Opie Yutts]

stinky, I so love learning about the things you know. Will it ever end? I mean come on. Mutagens, endocrine disruptors? Get outta here. Man I can imagine how fun it must be to play God. Not sure how God feels about it. Please let me in on that. I want to play too. Although, I think I would be too tempted to play more with endorphin distributors, and selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, tricyclics, and monoamine oxidase inhibitors. Knowing silly ol me, I would probably invent something that would make everybody and their plants happy all the time. It would eventually be like another world. There would be chaos, destruction, and bad things... I'd better not.

ppe = personal protective equipment

[Hempious]

A fume hood and goggles for a couple of aspirins? :jumphappy:

[stinkyattic]

Very funny, ha ha.

I was referring to the other shit people regularly ask after- like silver nitrate- just be safe people.

Oh SNAP, hempious... does the username 'cannab!s' ring a bell? He's on a perma, and now you are too. Size 8 okay?

BOOTED! (Hey, it's 11'F outside and ya can't wear stilettos in the snow, m'kay?)

[MasonicChronic]

Does Aspirin have any effect on the plant?

If smoked, can trace amounts of aspirin be found in the smoker's urine? (redundant question, but I'm a nerd with specifics)

I still have trouble understanding that a female would produce all female seeds. I know that feminized seeds exist (as they are available at a number of co-ps) yet I just dont buy the science that every seed will come up female.

However, in this case, I think it is great that you found a dependable way to get females! I will definitely take this exercise into consideration. thanks!

[stinkyattic]

Aspirin- I can't remember at the moment if that's a way to make chemical herms, but did you know that steeping willow twigs (yup! where aspirin comes from!) in hot water and then cooling that water will give you a rooting liquid? It is not as strong as commercial chemical rooting hormone, but if you are a pure-organic grower, it is a fine option for a more natural rooting agent.
Do not worry about salicylic acid being taken up and stored in the buds. Not that I would spray aspirin on plants in flower, but it is a very very safe chemical. I am not certain why you would worry about finding it in urine either, since it's perfectly legal, and an ingredient in many painkillers, anti-inflammatories, and blood thinners.

[NaughtyDreadz]

steeping willows = weeping willows?

[stinkyattic]

Any type of willow.
Steeping= allow to sit in very hot, but not boiling, water for some time to extract the hormones in the young twigs.

[bigxjerm]

what is the next steep to make sure i get a female crop:cool:

[the image reaper]

maybe dose 'em with Viagra ? ... make 'em tall and proud :S2:

[stinkyattic]

If you ordered 'standard' seeds, you will get normal m:f ratios. The next step is to put aside one or two FEMALE plants in a breeding box and subject them to random lighting schedules during weeks 3-5 of flower. You should get seeds, and they will all sprout up female.

[a420seeker]

Stinky, I value your opinions and I have this ?. I light poisoned one of my plants to make it herm and it did. so the buds that are growing now with white hairs all over the place and I can plainly see the male sacs forming in places. can the buds on my hermed plant still be smoked and are the seeds produced on the same are they femmed or do I need to use the hermed pollen on another female to produce the femmed seeds. I have been growing for many years but I have always culled the herrmies as I also culled the males. Please enlighten me.:rasta:

[stinkyattic]

Can you smoke a hermi plant? Yes! No problem!
Are the seeds produced ON the hermi plant BY the hermi plant femmed? Yup!
Can you use that pollen on any other plant, and also get femmed seeds? Fo'sho!
Consider yo' bad self enlightened, homeslice. :D

[a420seeker]

Thank you very much for such a quick reply and enlightenment:):rasta:

[bigxjerm]

this would be perfect for auto strains but to try to grow a crop of cush is much :rastasmoke:

[SouthernGuerilla]

is it possible to make a hermie outdoors in the wild?

[a420seeker]

is it possible to make a hermie outdoors in the wild?


Hell yes! It's called bagging, I believe the best way to do this is with a large bag placed over the plant, then remove and replace the bag every day at different times,:stoned:

[SouthernGuerilla]

Hell yes! It's called bagging, I believe the best way to do this is with a large bag placed over the plant, then remove and replace the bag every day at different times,:stoned:

I can do this once the plant(s) have preflowers?

[a420seeker]

I can do this once the plant(s) have preflowers?

Let the buds develope for 4 to 6 weeks and then do it that way most of the energy will be in producing the buds then bag em and it should Hermy for you with still a good bud yield and Feminized seed

[PottyBear]

I don't know a lot about the specifics for cannabis, but there seems to be some confusion among people about the process of passing along sex characteristics in general. It is simple genetics when you force a plant to hermaphrodize (is that a word?) that will give you female offspring.

First, as stinky said, a natural hermaphrodite should not be reproduced because that is a genetic flaw. The plant's genes have a defect giving it a XXY chromosome. It will potentially pass this along to nearly all of its young (I think the chance would only be 1 in 4 that it might not pass along the genetic defect since it is breeding with itself, and it might be 0% that it will not pass it on, I'd have to look more at the specifics of these plants because it depends on HOW it divides its sex chromosomes). So, if you get a hermaphrodite plant under idea growing conditions, what that plant is is a genetically defective freak and it needs to be prevented from cross-pollinating your other plants, and the seeds would most likely be more hermies. You might be able to pull the male plant parts off regularly to reduce seeding and make worthwhile buds for use, but any seeds should be discarded or you will just get more of the same.

Genetic freaks aside, a female has XX chromosomes and a male has XY chromosomes. When you breed, the odds of getting males to females (genetically) is 50/50:

X1X2+X1Y1
Results in these possible combinations in the offspring (colour coded to clarify) taking half the genetic material each from the mother and the father:

X1X1 X1Y1 X2X1 X2Y1

In other words, 50% male and 50% female. In most species, plant and animal, males are slightly less strong genetically resulting in a slightly lower survival rate (all to do with dominant and recessive genes and a more detailed explanation is beyond the intended purpose of this message). Females being homogametic, in other words having two identical XX chromosomes, have 2 shots at overcoming flaws where their heterogametic (XY) male counterparts have only 1, where faulty genes don't have an exact corresponding "countering" gene on the other half of their sex chromosome pair. When you introduce substances, be they hormones or aspirin or something else, you are effectively weakening the already slightly less robust male genetic material (Y chromosomes) and trying to approach a survival rate of 0% for sperm (in this case in the form of pollen) that carries a Y. Obviously, this could (and probably does in most cases) also kill off weaker sperm with X chromosomes and could ALSO introduce flaws in the genes if harm is done to the female sperm that do survive - especially if extremely strong hormones are used.

When a genetically female plant is forced by a threat to its survival to turn into a hermaphrodite, it is not a true hermaphrodite genetically. It is STILL a female plant. Obviously, the fact that it has the ability to produce sperm under extreme circumstances is also a genetic trait it carries, but this is actually not a bad thing as ultimately this could be a trait that could win out in a survival of the fittest scenario in the wild. The sperm/pollen produced by the plant cannot carry anything but the genetic material of that plant itself. Since the plant is female, it does not have a Y chromosome to pass along to the eggs to produce male plants and in complete isolation the seeds cannot be anything BUT female seeds, as shown below:


X1X2+X1X2
Results in these possible combinations in the offspring (colour coded to clarify) taking each half of the genetic material for each seed from only the mother:

X1X1 X1X2 X2X1 X2X2

There are no Ys to be had to specify male characteristics. However, there IS the trait that the plant will produce pollen and self-fertilize under stress that will be passed along in an absolute MINIMUM of 50% of the seeds, depending on which part of the cannabis DNA carries that trait. In theory, if you had several females that were stressed and produced pollen and they cross fertilized, you could be actually breeding plants with an increased likelyhood of stress hermaphrodism by having this trait carried on both halves of the genetic material which is joined to make a seed. That's really only a problem if you continue to subject your future generations of plants to stress, and the only real problem for the grower is that they are going to get more seeds and less sensimilla flowers.

Ugh... well, I am sure this is a clear as mud now, but I don't know how to simplify it any more. Just remember that sex cells - eggs and sperm - are haploid cells made of half the plant's own genetic material and therefore can only have in them whatever the plant has for DNA. Join the haploid egg and sperm together and you get a diploid cell which hopefully results in a viable offspring carrying half of each parent's DNA. One parent, or asexual reproduction, means that the offspring can only contain the DNA of that single parent (although potentially in slightly different arrangements as shown above).

It is pretty ridiculous for anyone to suggest you are somehow weakening the plants to do any of this, except perhaps if you go overboard on screwing with hormones and actually do genetic damage. Using aspirin or whatever is technically simply culling male-chromosome carrying sperm and realistically means you are ensuring only the strongest sperm survive, which usually is a positive thing. Forcing plants to self-pollinate with stress is simply reproducing a trait which is already there in that plant's offspring. As long as you don't stress the plants that grow from the seeds produced this way, you aren't changing anything other than the rearrangement of the DNA configuration - which is what happens every time a plant reproduces sexually anyway.

[Weedhound]

If you ordered 'standard' seeds, you will get normal m:f ratios. The next step is to put aside one or two FEMALE plants in a breeding box and subject them to random lighting schedules during weeks 3-5 of flower. You should get seeds, and they will all sprout up female.

I've never had a male plant with feminized seeds yet. And I'd be VERY interested to hear from anyone with feminized seeds who DO get a male.

I HAVE had some plants that hermied from my feminized seeds. But I can trace every single time thats happened to light leaks found....and once repaired.....no more hermies since.

I'm with Stinky.....I'd do it with lighting and avoid giving the plant anything I didn't need to. That being said.....heck YEAH I'd do it to keep the genetics in play.

[MrBean007]

Great post from all....From a rookie:jointsmile:

[Rusty Trichome]

I've never had a male plant with feminized seeds yet. And I'd be VERY interested to hear from anyone with feminized seeds who DO get a male.

I HAVE had some plants that hermied from my feminized seeds. But I can trace every single time thats happened to light leaks found....and once repaired.....no more hermies since.

I'm with Stinky.....I'd do it with lighting and avoid giving the plant anything I didn't need to. That being said.....heck YEAH I'd do it to keep the genetics in play.

To force male flowers on a female, I've used Gibrellic Acid, ( :eek: ) Aspirin tablets, and light. Different grows, not at the same time.

GA has a tendency to burn leaf tissue when applied foliar, but works (strangely, some people freak-out just hearing the name) Aspirin or light poisoning work pretty good too.
I don't keep a record, but since starting doing it a couple of years ago, no discernable differences in quantity or quality of the resultant pollen, and seeds are somewhat consistent thru all mehtods.
Results: Perhaps 90% female, 10% weird females. Sometimes you'll get a plant that is confused about how many fingers her leaves should have, sometimes it's confused about how long the center finger on her leaves should be, sometimes internodal stretch is exaggerated or diminished...minor stuff like that, that altho looks funky, is still smokable. But no males. :thumbsup: If you got any males, it's from another non-hermied pollen source.

This is why it's likely not a good idea to breed a female from forced hermie stock. (don't breed the feminized plant if at all possible, unless it's an emergency or experiment) The genetics can go astray.

[stinkyattic]

Oh one last thing to add... should you decide to herm with gibberelin, don't smoke that plant. Safety first!

[Algag]

The only thing im curious about is that the original poster said he force hermed his male plants. Does force herming male plants produce feminized seeds?

[Weedhound]

run a search on "male hermaphrodite" under the search function. Stinky explained why forcing males to produce female flowers could be done but she listed several reason why it wasn't a good thing in a great post some time back. Hope you find the post....definitely worth reading and good solid Stink info. :thumbsup:

[Algag]

sweet ill hunt it down. In the mean time, and off topic, why is my rep disabled and how do I change it, anyone know?

[Rusty Trichome]

The only thing im curious about is that the original poster said he force hermed his male plants. Does force herming male plants produce feminized seeds?
Although this thread is old...perhaps we should think about this for a second...

When forcing a female plant to produce pollen, she has no male chromosomes to donate to the equation, just her female ones. The male chromosomes come from the male pollen. We may have forced her into survival mode, and forced her to produce nanners, but they are not male nanners, they're female nanners devoid of male chromosomes. This results in embryos with only female chromosomes. In other words...The resultant seeds are 100% female.

Now think of what forcing a male plant will do...given that he has no female chromosomes. Those are not female calyx's and pistols, they are male calyx's and pistols, devoid of female chromosomes. If there are no female chromosomes in the embryo's...what will the result be, and why on earth would you want 100% male seeds?

[Italiano715]

Although this thread is old...perhaps we should think about this for a second...

When forcing a female plant to produce pollen, she has no male chromosomes to donate to the equation, just her female ones. The male chromosomes come from the male pollen. We may have forced her into survival mode, and forced her to produce nanners, but they are not male nanners, they're female nanners devoid of male chromosomes. This results in embryos with only female chromosomes. In other words...The resultant seeds are 100% female.

Now think of what forcing a male plant will do...given that he has no female chromosomes. Those are not female calyx's and pistols, they are male calyx's and pistols, devoid of female chromosomes. If there are no female chromosomes in the embryo's...what will the result be, and why on earth would you want 100% male seeds?


I don't think I could have said that any better Rusty! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

[warfrat73]

Male Genetics = XY, so
using the model previously established if we breed X1Y1 with X1Y1 the possibilities for the offspring are: X1X1, X1Y1, Y1X1, and Y1Y1

So, that would be 25% female, 50% male and 25% freak that probably wouldn't survive. All of the females would be identical. N'est ce pas?

[loopyloo]

probably doing the wrong thing here but cant find anywhere to post and since this is the closest thing to my problem thought id post it here.
apologies if i doing the wrong thing but i know no better at the moment.
i grown a couple of clone to maturity but wnem i started to trim em i notcied they had little ball thinks on the underside of the buds on further inspection they were throughout the whole of the very large buds.they are practically spherical in shape and quite hollow and softthey also have a couple of hairs poking out of the top of em. i cut one open and what looks like a grain of saind is inside very very tiny brown thing .
what is this are they femmed polen sacks or male pollen sacks or the very begining of new buds, has the plant hermied and is it now no good.
any help would be bvery much appreciated and stop me from pulling hair out.
i thank you in anticipation that someone will be able to help.
please make a sad man happy tell me it aint bad news.

[JD1stTimer]

You should upload a picture. Having hairs coming out makes it sound female to me. Perhaps they got pollinated and the brown thing is the undeveloped seed? Regardless, it will still be perfectly smokable. :)

[Rusty Trichome]

Those are mature/swollen calyx's, and they are unseeded.
With seeded calyx's, the pistols* (hairs) wither-up, as there is room for only one seed and the pistols are unnecessary from that point forward, for that particular calyx. (usually)

[guerillagrowerz]

I've also been lucky with getting females. I guess it has to do with the short light period at first, and then putting them under flourescents when the sunlight is not out from seed. I'm not really too sure how i'm lucky because other people get all males with 30 seeds. I guess it is my omen. Now I have to work on getting some real females. lol. So do not hate on the image reaper.

[Gatekeeper777]

This sounds to me as if Perfect growing conditions produce almost always females. Males were grown under less then perfect conditions.
If thats the case then There would be no natural females in harsher climates. But since there are I must say that its the seed that is male or female.

[blackdragon]

This is what I use.

[blackdragon]

This sounds to me as if Perfect growing conditions produce almost always females. Males were grown under less then perfect conditions.
If thats the case then There would be no natural females in harsher climates. But since there are I must say that its the seed that is male or female.

excellent deduction watson.

[Scarper]

The females should be fertilized and wait a few days for the seeds to ripen.

I'm wondering if a few days is long enough?

I have a hermie and the seeds have been green for over a month.. Do you wait untill seeds begin to go brown, stripey? Or do you pick and as they dry they get their more familluar brown colour?

I have grown children from a hermie before and 50% of the plants were morphed. Is that not a sighn of the seed not being grown fully as a majority of them were green when harvested.
All female of course..

please clarify the correct time to pull seeds?

[Scarper]

lol

ok so iv been reading this site for about 2 weeks and after I posted the above I continued to space out a magnified font and continue thread hunting.
I thank Rusty for answering my question within another thread..

"Ow! My ears!

Green seeds are not nearly ripe. Wait until they are fat and brown, with noticeable dark stripes before harvesting. You can flush at any time. If you are more than 2 weeks from harvest, go back to feeding until about a week from when you plan to chop. "

For anyone who is reading and is in doubt.
And apologies for not having such atrocious spelling above.

Off out to the shed for another :rastasmoke:

[Rusty Trichome]

please clarify the correct time to pull seeds?
After harvesting the plant and it's been dried.
Seeds take between 4 and 6 weeks on the plant to mature and be viable.

[ch33ch]

do you have any info on the method to produce silver nitrate / collodial silver?

if you want to make silver nitrate (AgNO3 if i remember correctly) you would need silver and nitric acid, and just let them react. there are other ways, but im sure silver nitrate is easier to buy than nitric acid, since nitric acid would be an ingredient in some people's drug manufacture.
but of course that just came out of my brain, no googling involved. google it and i'm sure you can find plenty of methods for producing silver nitrate.

[stevemeade]

wow thats crazy, im going to try this out when i get the chance(already killed them i had a 50%male/female rate and im hoping this works for me so i can get a 100% female rate,:rastasmoke:

[MrTeas]

I like your style, and tend to agree with you on some of the things you mentioned in your post. Bringing the "Hay Day" strains back would be awesome, but sorry to say far fetched, unless there are still a few wise crackers holding on to there prized
beans to throw down. I enjoy a good purple Thai from '76 that has high thc AND cbd levels! I thought Mary was always in favor of one or the other, but in this case its the best of both worlds, and every color of the rainbow with a fruity purple-berry-mango-melonesque bouquet and you taste all of the rainbow every hit you take ;D

Guess we need to follow our better judgement and start looking at Mary as part of our herbal repertoire~

[williboy]

Dear Rusty,
Thanks for all the info so far, I would like a little clarification if possible. Are those aspirin the little 83mg kind or the regular 325mg. The entire thread is very facinating to me as I can see reasons to clone as well has want to plant a seed and know that it should grow into a fine lady. If you could refer me anyone or where to find more specifics on Ph, Heat, Light, Pruning, etc. to 'herminize", I will try these methods out, DAMN this is so fun. I live in NorCal, got a too big house, and finally living the 'Vida Loca' (sp?) So why not?

[williboy]

By now, I hope you have been seeing many more of what I think you are describing; the first caylx at the base of the first or second 'alternating' branch nodes, hopefuly you are only seeing preflowering.

[williboy]

Dear "stinkyattic", sure would love to hear more about your technique for light stressing the ladys in some stamens, pretty please?

[medicinegivers]

Never tried it. It's simple to make fem seeds using light stress or heat stress to force-herm a female into producing XX pollen.

But if you've got a known female... it's FAR more efficient simply to take cuttings and clone that sexy mama. You never know if her kids are gonna be as sexy as she was.

How exactly do you force a female to produce pollen? Can you isolate just a branch in a bag and get pollen at just one site? How late into the flowing cycle can you induce pollenation?