Mad Professor *busting the myths of growing*

[Winks]

Ok there are many reasons I'm starting this thread.

First I still consider myself a new grower. I have learned what I know to this point from misinformation from grow shops, other untrained growers, anything I can find to read, and just observing the plants.

I know that there has to be a better way to learn. At heart I'm an artist and a scientist. I also have a big heart and really want to help others while the scientist in me is starving for cold hard facts.

Ok I know I'm rambling but the idea is best described from a thread that I was discussing light cycles in.

Let me do a little cut and paste since I'm a baked scientist right now.



I am preparing to move my grow from closet to garage. I've been doing alot of experimenting lately in my garden with twisting leaves around stems for light and increased support to a melt in your mouth THC strip. (Inspired but still working on that one)

I was reading this thread and like a bulb flashing over my head it hit me. I really love the show mythbusters and we really need a weed version of the show. I"m willing to get some hydrohuts and do some light/music/medium and other experiments with clones if people are willing to toss ideas. I've been really wondering about the light myself. I think with an electronic controller and huts that are the same then a control. Say the control will be one at 24/0 and then have the huts run 18/6 another at 15/5 and others that may be out there.

I can also at the same time if I get enough clones going, try soil vs. coir vs soiless mix.


I can create a website and keep the data comming in if people are interested.
This is a long term project that will prob start at end of summer when I get the move and equipment going.

I'm willing to play mad professor but, I havn't been growing long enough to know what all the myths are associated with it.

So cheers and Let me know who would be interested in contributing ideas for light experiment and results.

Ok then my helping peeps on the next post....


So I was thinking of how many I would need to do.

One control which will be 24/7 9 plants. 3 in coir, 3 soiless mix and 3 in soil.
With having 3 in each medium I would be able to have an average to base line.
I can then tell if there is a difference between the mediums with no light change.

One hut would have 24/7 for two weeks then switch to 18/6 then to 12/12 for flower. Nine plants per hut same medium as above.

Maybe another one to test the 15/5 and 10/10 as well.

Second hut with a light cycle of 24/7 then slowly shortening days by 1 hour increments till it reaches the 12/12 cycle. Same # of plants and same medium as control.

With my state having a "nine plant rule" which isn't on the rule books but is the accepted amount by authorities, I have decided on the number of plants per hut will then be nine. I am going to be attending Hempfest this year and will be looking for local patients that are unable to grow their own medicine and each patient will then have a "hut". I will run the experiment and each patient will reep the harvest of the experiment, I won't be working outside the law, and will be able to upload data to benefit everyone.

I will have alot of supplies to gather before this, but I won't be able to find the patients I really want to grow for untill August. So if anyone can come up with discounts or huts on sale send me a link. I will also be needing to find fans, timers, and such. The kicker is they all have to be as identical as possible.

So I'm pitching my idea.
If anyone has another cycle they want me to test let me know.

Oh and I hope to be able to set up some small infrared cameras if I can find them without too much cost so the plants can be observed in the dark cycle.
Time lapse would kick ass but I'm not that electronic savy.



So here is the link to the origional thread.

I think there is alot of potential here and wouldn't it be nice to finally see the difference between a full 24 hour day and maybe a 30 hour day.

Or T5 compared to CFL vs LED

This is a project in the making. I would appreciate as many contributions as possible so that before I start setting up I can try and compile as many as I can to keep all the light experiments together and timing together and maybe foliar feeding or old ideas like hair or eggshells additive to the medium.

So yeah I'm baked, but I love info so lets get this started.

Anyone that may have discounts avail. for card holders or if you know anyone in the Seattle area that isn't able to grow their own medicine and will be able to provide a permit to keep these experiments legal and need a home for the harvest, please contact me through email or private message.

;) Winks

[Winks]

yeah I was baked and forgot to link the thread this started from....


http://boards.cannabis.com/showthread.php?t=60250

and now back to the brainstorming....

;)

[Dimebonic333]

As for the leaf cutting, We would have to take clones from the same mother and start by cutting the leaves on one, as you would when taking clones to begin with. then never stop, until harvest.
I think you would have to dedicate an entire cab or closet to this experiment, for your controls, and the experiment.

[Dimebonic333]

I think that if you were to start up a site dedicated to the "growbusting"
Thats a really awful term but, it would be a great idea.

[Pepper]

Smart people read books.

[Lady Vapor]

I like all the work you're putting into your "work!" One thing I read about light and flowering from "The Cannabis Grow Bible." The author "Green" said if a leaf is covering a good flower you can cut the first half of the leaf off in order to expose the flower. I do it all the time. Time consuming, but I believe it's worth it.

[Jdog7000]

I do the same Vapor.
It does it on it's own if you don't cut it anyway. I've found.
So I just help it along.
Havn't you all noticed when a bud is covered by a big leaf. It begins to turn and then begins to eat itself to get it out of the way.
So sometimes I help it along.

[knna]

Smart people read books.

Yes, its a usefull way to obtain both good and bad info. Fool people write books, too ;)

Nothing like own experience. And better if its obtained by controled experiments.

Very nice iniciative, Winks. Ill follow your experiments. Ive been trying some things, too. We know a lot about cannabis, but probably less of we dont know about yet.

As for the initial purpose of the thread, and the linked one, i use 18/6, 17/7 and 16/8 for veg. But now im experimenting with use 8h of continue light and then each 3h of darkness, 1/2 of light. I think it optimize the plant grow per watt (if i would like to optimize only growth, probably id use 23/1 or 5/1).

Ive seen this advised for comercial greenhouses: let short dark periods inbetween of light periods increses growth rate. And total dry matter is directly proportional to total irradiance.

Its a question of preferences, of what is most important for each grower: fast grow, health grow, best grow per watt used, best grow per space used, quality or quantity....each preference has its own best method.

So in order to compare properly, a controled experiment must measure dry matter accumulation, shoot area, height, internodal spaces for each treatment, and probably THC content to be of utility for others growers (and work with same genetic, obviously). Its mean a lot of work.

In the other hand, we have the forum: each grower reports its personal experiences, wich arent definitive, but other grower can learn of that (sorry my english, second language, its hard for me explain some concepts, but hope you can understand what i meaning).

Personally, for my next grow im going to compare a floro grow supported with red leds. All clones of same mother, half with leds, half without, a would like to see what leds can add. Ill report here.

[Winks]

I'm happy I won't be the lonely professor.

Dimebonic333

As for having seperate areas I've been looking into hydrohuts. Here is a link.
I think as for the cutting experiment, deciding on how much of a percent of a leaf is prob the best. Example... if a plant has a leaf that is 6 inches and one that is 3 inches if I take a set 2 inches to keep the data consistant, I am taking more off of one than the other. I was toying with between 40-55% maybe having a couple that I take 20% then couple with 40% and maybe the next would be 60%. Then we have an idea of how much wounding is needed and if there is a point of excess cutting that will deplete the harvest.
Here is a link of the hut. I am going to have to work on the percentage thing when I'm sober. LOL
http://4hydroponics.com/grow_room/homebox.asp

And yeah I thought of the name weedbusters or smokebusters but decided to call this journey Mad Professor. Cuz that is what my boyfriend always called crossing strains. Weedbusters sounds good when you know what the theory is....but some stoners might get scared.


Pepper,
I've spent most of my days since October reading anything I can get my hands on about growing. And there is alot of confusing information since some
people have traditions in their growing that they might be outdated in.
One of the things that led me to this was reading about Dutch Master's strives in foliar feeding and busting alot of myths regarding about uptake of nutes in the root zone and what actually passes through the leaves in foliar feeding. They get challenge people to prove their claims wrong. They participate in independent lab testing by Universities and it really woke me up how many developments have just started in the world of indoor gardening.


Jdog7000 & Lady Vapor
I used to be soooo scared when I first started about cutting leaves. Untill we had a major Rust infection in the garden and I learned how to be firm but fair.
I've been looking into how to use the lower leaves for added support of developing buds and have some pics in my gallery. They are called twisted.
I got to the point of having little palm trees in my first grow from all the trimming we had to do, so this time when I was tucking leaves, I accidently tucked it around the upper branch twice. it has caused the lower buds to grow out then up and as far as I can tell with only being 2 1/2 weeks into flower is that the twisted stems have thickened up the upper branch. This, if it works will help with really heavy plants like Big Bud that usually have to be tied.Sorry i suck at posing pics but here is the link to my gallery
http://gallery.cannabis.com/displayimage.php?album=887&pos=25
There are 3 or 4 that show the twisting leaf and the branch from furthur away. Sorry I'm kinda broke so that was taken with a cell phone.


knna,

Thank you for your kind words, I really can't wait to get all the equipment. Till then it is theory and brain storming.

I agree with recording as much data as possible. I think that using a scale to measure the weight at regular intervals might also show that one schedule takes more watering or so on and so forth.
I'm thinking of having to do a sativa and seperate indica experiments. I know that both will react to light cycles, light sources, wounding will all be different.
I'm really excited to hear about your LED experiments. This is something I've been following since I read about them at the NASA website. I'm thinking a heat mat for LED only might be needed since they don't give much heat.
But can't wait to hear some of those results.


Well I think I've jabbered enough for now.
Got to decide on a good stain to experiment on that will give me alot of clones and be nice and potent for the patients I donate to.

Hugs and happy toking!

;)

[Dimebonic333]

Canvas grow rooms! Fuckin Tits! Im gonna have to build a few of those. I cant believe I never thought of that.

As for your percentage I would keep it around 30 percent. that way there would be less harm done. or possibly 30 percent at one node, then 50, then back to 30. gonna have to toy with that a bit. i plan on beginning this experiment along side you soon. bust on.

[SOF]

dude, rock on...

[smokesalot]

just a stoned thought please bear with me ...what if you took a 5 gal rubermade container and cut a hole in the bottom of the tub 1 inch or so around .then filled the tub with soil and raise the tub up in the air put a plant in the hole planted upside down then place a light on the ground pointing up at the plant ? would it grow would gravity help or hurt what do ya think ?

thanks and good luck

[The Grim Reefer]

just a stoned thought please bear with me ...what if you took a 5 gal rubermade container and cut a hole in the bottom of the tub 1 inch or so around .then filled the tub with soil and raise the tub up in the air put a plant in the hole planted upside down then place a light on the ground pointing up at the plant ? would it grow would gravity help or hurt what do ya think ?

thanks and good luck

If they can do it, I bet you could too!

http://www.gardeners.com/on/demandware.store/Sites-Gardeners-Site/default/Link-Product?sku=34-320&SC=XNET8019

[smokesalot]

cool link thanks no room for playin here i was just throwin out an idea
the ad says tomatoes 1 month earlyer that kinda makes me think ?to be able to harvest a few even two weeks early would'nt hurt ?

[Jdog7000]

I like that twisted leaf thing.

[Winks]

Well things have been really hectic around here.

I was trying something new....and I was baked....

So my third crop is the one in my gallery mainly. (except bob and the CitrusXSkunk).

I've been trying all kinds of things, such as the leaf twisting which I hope to later try grafting the two stems together and see if I can make them bond in an attempt for natural support when I get the big bud in. I have also been trying alot of new products. I currentlt use Blu-Moon organic nutes and Dutch Master Penetrator and Folitech. I will soon be introducing the Max FX also. This is going to up the yeild by 30% and I want to test them on that too.
Anyway the point of this is that I was trying Excellofizz which give CO2 from a tablet placed in water above your lights.

Now here is the important part of being a Mad Professor. Don't get too baked before trying something new. I've used the Excellofizz before but not a full tablet, I always broke them down since I didn't want to use for a whole 12'X12' room. Well I used the same container as before and the water bubbled over like Niagra Falls and into my power strip and one poor little exposed 42W CFL.

I was running for my computer to pull the powerstrip off it cuz I had to switch off the lights and I was pulling plugs and trying to get the rest of the CO2 out of my room so it didn't effect us.

The moral is Don't get too baked when trying to be a scientist! LOL So now after having changed the light cycle to 14/10 the day of the light prob, and then having a nice visit by the power guy and losing power for 3 days.
I have now christened this the Murphy Grow!
I don't think I will be doing too much more experimenting on this batch. They have been through alot of changes lately.

And well face it, I want a good harvest!

Now that I've let you know what is going on in my garden for the moment I wanted to go over those upsidedown planters.

I've been looking at them with alot of interest. I wonder if gravity will make much of a difference on harvest and if the trich production will have much effect, and what medium will be the best. I would think that flushing would be tough and how would you keep the nutes from running down the stem to burn it.

I also have an idea to grow up a trellis in the grow room firmly anchoring the stems to the wall and when the plant gets big enough to fill all the verticle space then moving the light to the floor and let the buds grow down like grapes so to speak. This was another of my stoner ideas, I think this is more addressing small closet space issues then to get the biggest harvest. There is a term for growing fruit trees against a wall like that but I don't remember it now.

Anyway time for me to jump to the chat. I'll check in will everyone again soon.

Winks:thumbsup:

[CChrisgat05]

do it up winks lets get this site on the road

[Winks]

Ok so I figure that even though this is in the indoor grow forum that espaliers maybe something to look into. If you have a large room with empty walls why not try something new.

Remember that when you experiment you want to have fun. Don't take anything too seriously. If you were trying to get the perfect bud with out the mistakes or pains of trying something new, then you shouldn't be a mad professor.

With that said. This is all about espaliers (growing trees against a wall, funny that is all I had to put into google ;)


http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/MG273

An "espalier," (pronounced "es-PAL-yer") is any plant trained to grow in a flat plane against a wall, fence, or trellis. The word espalier also may be used to describe the technique of training a plant to this flat plane. A French word, espalier is derived from the Italian spalliera, which means something to rest the shoulder (spalla) against. The Romans originated the technique, but later generations of Europeans refined it into an exacting but rewarding art.


The more I read the more I think this would be a great way to grow mothers.

but you guys check it out too and let me know what you think.

Here are some other links that include some great growing forms

http://www.espaliertrees.com/photos.html

I really think that the belgium fence might be a great way to do a verticle scrog kind of thing.

http://www.appleart.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espalier
An espalier collects almost as much sunlight as a regular tree, yet has far less mass. They may also be planted next to a wall, which can reflect more sunlight. These two facts allow an espalier to succeed in cooler climates, where a non-espaliered tree of the same variety would fail. They also mature fruit more quickly.

So let me know what you think.

Bust on!

Winks

Oh this is also how I will be doing my outdoor grow if I ever get out of the city.....lol...yeah right, Love Seattle too much to leave it......
Still I can dream...

[CChrisgat05]

you showed that to me in the chat room its a great idea if u have the room and the time to take care of it all

[Winks]

you showed that to me in the chat room its a great idea if u have the room and the time to take care of it all

All you need is a blank wall and yes it will take a bit of time but not that much more than a verticle scrog.

I'm gathering clones from a friend and hope to do this with permafrost soon after I beat the bugs for good.

Winks

[CChrisgat05]

good luck with that i would love to see an update and some pics as it goes along its way

[Jdog7000]

I don't think upsidedown growing will work with MJ.
It will just bend up towards the sun.
I would get some bags that could hang on the wall.
And plant in those.