clones in DIY aero cloner not lookin so good ?

[DH06]

ok here is what I have going on I made a aero cloner kinda like the "madman's" and put clones in 11 days ago. well as of today I still have no roots. there are two diff strains in the cloner my main question is (in the pics below) the stems (the part "inside" the cloner) of one of the strains is all wierd looking compaired to the other strain is this ok ? or is it bad ??

all pics were taken today. all help appreciated.....thanks....

[SmokinRandy420]

Dude roots dont like light you need to black that out so no light gets to them

[Shallow Hal]

i agree , black out the sides of that container... nice set up all the same .. good work. also cut a few of those lower leaves off and set ur light to 16/8 , clones root better under 16/8 i find ... i hope this helps

[DH06]

hey thanks ! I thought that blacking out the sides only helped to keep down "alge" that would live off the water did'nt realize it was a root thing....time to go cover the sides....

so there is still hope for these girls ??

[DH06]

I had some black plastic that I wraped the sides with but there is still some light that is penetrating the lid of the cloner so I can't get it "dark" inside but it is a little bit darker than it was should that be good enough....BTW the light over them is a 8 tube T5 fixture that is prety high off of the little ones for now...once again thanks for your help

[Zandor]

First did you use Anti-wilt?

Second yes cover the tub clear is not a good idea, not only will alga grow but like it was said young roots don't like light.

Third - You have roots showing. The first picture shows the structure of how they form. Right now in this stage the roots are still inside the stem but if you look close enough you can see them. As the plant matures and grows the moisture requirements increase and then the plants searches for more water. Thus you get the roots sticking out as the stem transforms into it's own plant.

They look like they should be fine.

Last - What is the temperature of the water, and are you using any nutrients at all? You do know you are taking a cutting from a plant that has nutrients so you can root clones with a very week full NPK nutrient mix.....very week like about 200 ppm.

[DH06]

guess I should have touched on the specs more....well my local hydro shop set me up with K-L-N and Pro-Tekt (by dyna grow).....as for the temp well I've been fighting with that . I've been having a hard time keeping it stable I just put a AC in the room they are in and I'll be adding more water today to help keep things a little better (hopefully)...the res temps have gotten to mid 80's a couple times I've been putting frozen water bottles in to cool it down a bit....

oh yea not using any anti-wilt...thought I'd try with out it ??

the lighting is a 8 bulb T5 (6500K bulbs) placed high above on 18/6 cycle...

oh yea if you can't tell this is my first time messing with clones....

[latewood]

very cool cloner, bro...I think they look great. Be patient, they are not wilting or anything, plus Z says you got bumps...I'm Too blind too see 'bumps'...LOL

As far as light in the rez...everyone is right. I should have addressed this further in my how-to. black it out. It is just the safe way to go.

1st follow Zandor's advice.

2nd get no-wilt or leaf shine (believe it or not...the miracle grow* leaf shine, does exactly the same job as the no-wilt, or Pro anti-wilt products...I have tested and tested with success, using the leaf shine.)
* Leaf shine is the only Miracle Grow product, I would consider using.

3rd. I found that these tubs with the pump inside have a small heat build-up problem, so I vent my tub now...you can just drill another hole in the corner and make a little baffle out of tape, or leave one clone space open...that is what i have been doing.

Good luck with the rooting...lw

[DH06]

lw, thanks. yea thanks for the post on your cloner got me going on this one the only diff is I was'nt happy with the angle of the sprayers coming from the top so I used super glue and glued on short peices of tube to the tops of the sprayers and now I can easly "adjust" the sprayer by pushing, pulling ,or twisting on the tube sticking out the top of the cloner....

I'll have to look into the anti-wilt...is it too late to use it now ??

have you experienced much evap from having the vent hole in your cloner ?? I've got the perfect hole right in the center that I could use I was just worried about the evaporation rate...

once again thanks !!

[Zandor]

A hole in the center would let light in would it not? Mine has the pump in the tank too but I use the VIA 526 gph pump. It does produce some heat but my experience is it only adds about 3-5 deg F. You can cool the water with several things.

As lakewood said a vent hole is always a good idea as long as water does not get out or light get in.

Concrete will drop the temp some. What works well too is the miracle thaw. You can find them at garage sales, swap meet and even the 99¢ store sometime. You may need 2 of them but they will draw some of the heat out the water.

However you do it you need to get the temp down cool water will hold more oxygen then warm water will. Keep the light out of the water alga is not good for root growth.

The idea behind anti-wilt is to replace the humidity dome and keep the cutting from drying out under the lights so it has a chance to root.

[DH06]

cool thanks...I went ahead and put a piece of pipe in the center hole and put a 90 deg fitting to help lessen the ammount of light I don't think that it added much if any light into the res, but like I said earlier the lid of the cloner lets light penetrate through it, but blacking out the sides did help make it a little darker inside....

I'll have to keep my eyes open for the miracle thaw.

I'm going to have to make another one of these today need to get some more clones going on I will look for a diff container that won't let in so much light.....quick question if I get a "colored" container should I paint the lid white or just leave it ??

thanks

[latewood]

Ut-oh...I might not be the thriftiest kid on the block anymore.../GK/
Great idea with the pipe...funny thing, I was envisioning a ship vent...and you made one...That is awsome. Good job.

gotta go........make a pipe vent...Love this idea

pipe light baffle...

[DH06]

well glad I could give back a little help...since you gave me a bunch with your aero-cloner thread.

so I just picked up a 30 gal GRAY Sterilite tub for a 36 clone site should I do something to the top ? like paint it white for more reflection or just leave it be ?

Thanks
DH

[latewood]

I am going to add panda plastic (blak one side/wht the other)...and recut-out the plug holes.

ON the gray..yeah you could probably spray it flat white and that would block out what light the gray top doesn't.

[Garden Knowm]

they look fine.. they were spindly to start with..

I have seen a few cloners on the market that are clear..

crack kills

[ledgrower]

check the ph...

[u.g.u]

I have a diy cloner like that also I found if you use the net cups with rapid rooter sprayed 1 time a day for 15 mins they root in under a week as soon as they show roots I pull them out and put them in a small ebb in 4" pots till they really develope roots but you have to get them out asap from the cloner cause bare roots getting sprayed once a day dry out quick but if you spray the rapid rooters more than once they take longer to root.

[latewood]

My cloner is on a reptile room timer...I got timer set on/off every 15 minutes...It cooled the rez by 10 degrees, and I think the roots should be OK receiving Oxy...for 15 minutes.
Actually, I think cutting the sprayers off will have a positive effect.

ugu...great ideas. I have thought of using rapid rooters in place of collars in my units...I use rapid rooters exclusively for germination/starting my seeds. With the exact method you described above. I place seed in R'R'r and spritz once to 2wice daily as needed...when sprout pops out, I place 2" under a cfl with a very small fan indirectly causing a breeze.

I even thought of disconnecting/removing the pump and putting 14" airbars in the bottom. I have had great success cloning straight into hydroton filled netpots...In fact, I clone 3 different ways, right now...trying to master all methods, and I "KNOW" that the clones dipped and placed directly into hydroton filled netpots will root...EVERYTIME!!! the only drawback and reason for my other methods are, that I find
it more versatile to root in peat/r'wool/rapid rooters. That way I can go Hydro or soil/less. With Netpots*, I prefer not to place them in dirt...although you could if you wanted to.

*for your info...You can root/veg (I think they make 1") in extremely small netpots and then put those netpots into larger netpots or ebb tray once roots show at outer edges of small netpot. lw:smokin:

[latewood]

This is what I meant to say in this last paragraph.

*for your info...You can root/veg (I think they make 1") in extremely small netpots and then put those netpots into larger netpots and into system or ebb tray once roots show at outer edges of small netpot. lw:smokin:

[Opie Yutts]

I see a potential problem with your plants, that is other than the fact that they need to be light proof around the roots.

It looks like many clones have been cut before the new growth has had a chance to grow. In fact I barely see any new growth tips on some of your plants - it looks like basically just fan leaves. Fan leaves will not produce a bud if you leave them in there 10 years. They will root though, but not as easily.

I don't know if you have ever taken cuttings before, but I make sure to take a more established sample than the ones you have shown. They should be fully rooted and ready to plant in anywhere from 5 to 15 days. You should definatly see root bumps within 5 or 6 days. If not, something is probably wrong.

Keep the light out.

Don't saturate the root area. They will do much better if they have to search for water. I keep mine on all day the first day, than 30 minutes on and 45 minutes off. Mine are usually ready to transfere to their pots in about 10 days.

[Zandor]

so I just picked up a 30 gal GRAY Sterilite tub for a 36 clone site should I do something to the top ? like paint it white for more reflection or just leave it be ?
Thanks
DH

If you put plastic over the top I see one problem with that. Mold would grow between the lid and the plastic and that could cause you problems.

With the gray or even the blue tubs; you are fine to use it just as it is.

[latewood]

If you put plastic over the top I see one problem with that. Mold would grow between the lid and the plastic and that could cause you problems.

With the gray or even the blue tubs; you are fine to use it just as it is.Z, you know I love ya man, but I gotta call you on this one... I haven't seen any problems covering with black/white panda plastic...as long as you use the black side down. In fact cleanup is easier and I feel like my set-up is cleaner all around.:)

By the way, after reading you post; I went and looked at all the tops I have covered with plastic...all bone dry! All clean!:thumbsup:

How do you see algae growing in the dark under black plastic?:confused:

Just for future reference:smokin:

[DH06]

WOW thanks for all the info !!

so it seems some are running your pumps on timers...hmmm...I'll have to look into getting another timer. Hey Zandor whats your take on that ?? the only prob I have right now is my pump is a cheeper one and don't know if it can handle the "cycles" (15min on/off) I know from my aquariums (reef tank) that some pumps cannot handle the "cycles"...

Opie, yea first time. Actualy I'm pretty happy that all are still alive !! even though there are only "bumps" on some of the clones (finaly) ALL have new growth...I did this first batch with the "lets see what happens" type of mind frame...LOL...

[Opie Yutts]

You'll get the hang of it.

I didn't see the root bumps, but if they are there, don't give up - roots are on the way.

The best trade off for a timer is Intermac (?I think). Digital - 14 programs, allows for an on/off time of 38 minutes each or something. $30 at a hydro store, $20 at home depot, $14 on line. I've bought 5 of these over the years and so far only 1 failed. Ideally you want "cyclestat", which is a repeater and not based on clocks. You could do any amount on and any amount off. I think I would try something like 7 minutes on and 30 off, if I could afford this. About $100 for the cheap ones.

Keep up the good work.

[Zandor]

Z, you know I love ya man, but I gotta call you on this one... I haven't seen any problems covering with black/white panda plastic...as long as you use the black side down. In fact cleanup is easier and I feel like my set-up is cleaner all around.:)

By the way, after reading you post; I went and looked at all the tops I have covered with plastic...all bone dry! All clean!:thumbsup:

How do you see algae growing in the dark under black plastic?:confused:

Just for future reference:smokin:

Well my stuff last me years and not everyone can build as well as you or I can. By gluing panda plastic there is a chance and I said chance before of alga and mold. Yes there will be a point when the glue releases and then you have an entry point for alga or mold. All they need is one entry point and the microbes will get their way.

Just to error on the side of caution is all. If there is a way; mold and alga will find a home and cause your trouble. Why take a chance I guess is what I am saying. FYI..

[latewood]

DH06...well...what is happening? opie might be right about cuttings being too immature...or, it could be because you placed sprinklers upside down...just kidding, roflmao
let us know something.

[DH06]

hey actualy things are looking good . getting roots on some and good "bumps" on others...

got my 36 site with "upside down sprinklers" filled up last night !! hopefully these turn a little quicker than the other batch. I know I've learned a bit more since the begining of this post hopefully that will help...

[latewood]

I'm glad to hear it's working out for you. It is a tedious little process, but if you keep up with it and are patient...you will later, reap the rewards. lw

[DH06]

yea can't wait to do a little "reap the rewards" ...LOL..

now I'm having a temp issue with my new machine (large pump) going to have to get a timer for the pump to hopefully help out. I already vented the container and tapped into the rooms intake air supply with a verry small line to help "blow" a little air through the container but still the temps are at 84 deg. any suggestions on timer cycles ??

[Opie Yutts]

You can expect to pay about $100 for the cheapest cyclestats.

[DH06]

yea, I'm curious on what ammount of on and off times people use.

[latewood]

go to pet store...like petrus and go to iquana/reptile area.

they have what is called a day/night timer, or*wave-maker timer.(*you can place power heads at different angles in a pool to create cross turbulence, or something like that.)

anyway...It costs about 28 bucks and you can set on/off every 15 minutes, furthermore what is cool...the day/night function allows you to have 3 seperate way to control a grow-room from a single timing device.
1st. It has 4 constant power inputs...
the 24 hour timer has 2 day and 2 night inputs.
So, I use mine like this.
I put my 24 hour on appliances...i.e. airpumps are on 24/7
Fans...
then I put my nutrient rez pump on the daytime timer.

The daytime side is yellow inputs and will turn on/off every 15 minutes or one time in a 12 hour period, or whatever...MInimum 15minute settings....I use 15 on 15 off for clones...45 on and 15 off for growing.

someone with ebb and flow might turn their pumps on 15 minutes then off for anywhere from 2 hours to 12 hours...depending on medium used. Sorry, I didn't mean to rant, but I just started typing and all this came out.

the blue inputs for night turn on an off when the lights are out...co2 or automated night foliar feeding...ooooooooohhH,
got you thinking now, HUH? Anything you can think of

Oh yeah fans can also be put into this On the constant 4 input side or on the timers...so The big one can be off most of the night photoperiod.

OK, enough of this rant...give somebody else a chance...

No, I can't STTtttooooopppp, Just kidding. LOL

good buddage. Kaliorange-skunk

I gotta go! lw

[Opie Yutts]

I just looked up my timer schedule. It was the closest I could come to what I wanted with the 14 event $20 timer. It is 30 on and 75 off. (This is for rooting in the aerocloner.) For rooting clones it doesn't really matter, as long as the roots don't completly dry out. If I could afford another cyclstat I would do something like 6 minutes on and 45 off. I know many people leave theirs on all the time and get great results. The theory behind an off time though is to have the roots search for moisture, and also to not get too saturated, which can cause mold/rot problems. Many people, myself included, think that roots grow bigger and faster if they have to search out moisture.

For delivering nutes, my veg area and my bloom area are on one timer, which is set at 40 seconds on and 7 minutes off. A popular number seems to be 1 minute on and 4 off. I know you can buy non adjustable cyclstats that use these numbers. I think they are around $85. I think you want to keep the roots in as much air as possible without drying out. You may have to experiment to find out what these times are for your set up.

[DH06]

well I went cheep and picked up a timer that has 15 min intervals, so would 15 on and 30 off be too much off time the only reason I ask is because 15 on and 15 off is allot of "off and on" that the pump is going to be doing and I don't know how long the pump would hold out ?? right now I have it on 15 on adn 15 off but if I could stretch it out a bit that would be nice...

[latewood]

that should not be a problem...I have run mine at all different intervels for a long time.

commercial tomato growers water 45seconds on 5 minutes off, drip to waste...the most efficient method believe it or not...they do exactly as opie says. beto buckets (beige hydro buckets) hold just enough nute solution to keep roots searching and growing all the time///lw

[DH06]

cool thanks. I'll try switching them over to 15/30 a little later today. they kinda had a long night power went out for 3 hrs. so they got no water for that long but all look ok sofar.

here are a couple pics just for the heck of it
the first two are when I first got the 36 site going , the third shows the added "air tube" ,and last is a pic of the moms which was taken about 4 days ago

Thanks
DH

[Opie Yutts]

A couple look a little droopy, but don't worry, that happens to me all the time and they snap out of it. Often these droopy ones seem to turn out better.

Overall, looking good, glad to see it. And no, I don't think 30 minutes off is too much for rooting. I do 70 off, I think. If you're worried about it I suggest you start with 15 off and build up to longer off times.

[DH06]

cool thanks !!

[latewood]

I learned to clone from Zandor basically...you should run your water as much as possible...don't leave water off too long or temps in rez...

[DH06]

I'm just trying to battle a little heat from the pump with out spending the money on a aquarium chiller...I'm sure you've been there or are there...LOL..

[latewood]

how hot is it...I am running mine on45 off 15 and it get's cold...in between. Hmmmm.

15on 15 off should cool pump and rez down...you want some warmth for rooting anyway.

remember warm for rooting/veg-cool for buds.

sorry, just trying to help. lw

[DH06]

whell when the pump was running 24/7 res was staying at like 84 deg.

trying to get it down to "high" 70's....that is what I want right ??

oh yea room temp is 78 and stable with AC, except for light's off time then the temp drops a bit...

[latewood]

let me go back and check exact temp range for you, but I do believe it is recommended to have your root zone warmer than your room temps...whole purpose for using a heat mat when cloning the semi-old fashioned way.

Look I have cuttings that look ;like total crap sometimes and then they root.

As long as stems are not getting 'Mushy'...don't worry. every strain takes it's own time...

lw

[latewood]

change out your water and add 1/4 tsp of superthrive to rez and let's see what happens.:smokin:

gotta go blow a Sexy Orange skunk, later

lw

[DH06]

so with the pump running 15/15 it brought the res temps down to 80 deg.

I understand the whole heat pad and cloner thing but that's for soil and with hydro don't you want cooler water for better oxygen holding capabilities ??

BTW I also have a small air stone in the res to help with the hole oxygen thing....so that being said with all the temp things 80 deg MAY be just fine ??

so are you saying that just water and superthrive will make it run cooler ??

all in all things are looking fine just trying to see if I can better things allong.

[FOXBIRD]

pics of roots would be cool

[latewood]

so with the pump running 15/15 it brought the res temps down to 80 deg.

I understand the whole heat pad and cloner thing but that's for soil and with hydro don't you want cooler water for better oxygen holding capabilities ??

BTW I also have a small air stone in the res to help with the hole oxygen thing....so that being said with all the temp things 80 deg MAY be just fine ??

so are you saying that just water and superthrive will make it run cooler ??

all in all things are looking fine just trying to see if I can better things allong.Ok...let me make sure I have everything straight. you are just cloning, right?

No I didn't say water and ST would make it run cooler...
alot of people believe you should change your clone water everyday. (these people don't use any kind of additive or anything they just use water., and that is OK.)
the only reason I could ever come up with...that would make me change water every day wa s to add cool water at least once in the cycle. just a theory.

well keep it up. I'm watching. lw

[Zandor]

The old stand by of using soda pop bottles filled with frozen water will keep the res cooler and not add anything mesurable to the water res to change the nutrients (if you use them).

80f is way to hot to root clones, yes you can but there is a better chance for you to get damping off problems with warm water.

[latewood]

I concur Z...because that is what happens in my same cloner when it gets too hot...that is the only reason I went 15/15 and eventually to 45/15,,,just to let the pump cool, and since that...Mine quit rotting...lw

Another idea would be to put in bulkhead style drain in cloner and set on bigger rez (an 18 gallon tub is great) then it would stay cooler...put pump in bottom rez and pump to cloner...just ideas. later lw:)

[Flower Child]

Do you think adding tanked O2 to the nute (and the enclosed area) would help accelerate/encourage rooting... by keep the area cleaner... I have the gear including a solinoid valve and regulator etc. and would be able to inject oxygen say 2 liter per min/ one minute an hour... using the diffuser
I know it sounds a bit mad but all I need to buy in the O2..
Will the added oxygen help!!
FC

[starmark]

Woods, makes a outdoor timer with 5 minute intervals for under $10 bucks

[starmark]

btw....if you put a big airstone in your cloner rez,it will help lower temps and oxygenate the water